posted 30 November 2003 02:33 AM            

[This message has been edited by Lady_Fox (edited 30 November 2003).]

posted 30 November 2003 08:42 AM            

First, Mohandiseen is one of the nicer districts in Cairo....but I don't know what you/he is comparing it to, so maybe it isn't as nice as that. I would say that a lot of Mohandiseen is lit up well at night, but even if it weren't Cairo is one of the safest urban cities in the world, and even if it weren't, why can't you stay at home in the evenings until you learn how to be safe? It doesn't compute much on these reasons. I have NO idea how far a walk it is for one address to another there.

The part about not being lots of Chinese people in Cairo, I'd say is true. There are many asians, but I don't think there are many Chinese. I know a few Indonesian women, and there are many Filopinos (they comprise a good percentage of the domestic work force). You might want to contact the Embassy of China and find out some exact figures from them before accusing him of lieing to you on this bit.

I can understand his companies excuse for not giving him housing for a fiance and himself before his period of testing on the job is finished....but on the other hand it was fairly naive of him to accept the job without getting houseing in his package. He may not understand yet, but the two of you could live together in his flat if he does get one. Everyone would assume you are married and it would be fine. He would have to learn to refer to you as his wife though and you to him as your husband.

As to your concern earlier about Egyptian girls trying to get close to him.... my reaction now that I know a bit more about him is that you probably don't need to worry unless he is quite a drinker and playboy. There is actually a restaurant in Maadi called Far East that you might playfully find out from him if he is a regular there or not. If he indicates he knows the joint, WATCH OUT! It's typically full of Sudanese hookers any weekend. Let's hope he doesn't know it. There is only one bar like that, that I know of, over in Mohandiseen....but unfortunately can't remember the name of it, but it usually has German expats in it, I think. LOL In anycase you probably don't need to worry about that unless it is a part of his life that you would worry about in any city you were in.

posted 01 December 2003 04:47 AM            

Thanks for your comments, you are right and I'll consider it. But I'll hope my dream will coming ture.

Thanks all of my friends here. Hope can meet you soon.

posted 10 January 2004 04:07 PM            

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Originally posted by Jacqueline:
Many people in Egypt seem to be of the general opinion that european people have what they would regard as low sexual morality and that it is common for people in the west to live together and have children together without the benefit of marriage. They therefore probably dont care if foreign women are sleeping with their men without the benefit of marriage as long as it is not legal and as long as some of the money is coming their way. I think that this situation in Luxor is a disgraceful scandal which the authorities are happy to ignore possibly because they dont want to upset the rich middle aged woman coming to Luxor to have sex with young men or indeed the many men that go to Luxor also to have sex with young Egyptian men - for a price. These men should be prosecuted under egyptian law, they would be if they were having extramarital sex with egyptian women or homosexual sex with egyptian men. I even know women who are legally married in their own country and still contract an orfi marriage with one or more egyptian men thereby they are both commiting adultery which under Islam is punishable by death. Under egyptian law fornication can lead to six months in prison and adultery to three years in prison. These men get away with it because they are doing it to foreign women not egyptian women.If women go into these Orfi marriages knowing them for exactly what they are-an unofficial licence to have sex without any responsibilities then fair enough. What I object to is where the woman believes that she is really married and that the man has made a real and lasting commitment to their relationship. In any kind of relationship any kind of deception as to the participants true intentions is disgraceful. The reasons why this is ignored by the authorities are purely economic in my opinion-keep the tourists coming and keep them happy-who cares if there are illegitimate children and women whose hearts get broken-as long as the money keeps coming in to Egypt.

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posted 12 January 2004 11:23 AM            

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Originally posted by deborah:
Hi, I've just returned from Luxor for the second time this year with my parents. On my first visit in Feb I met Jack, who I fell in love with. Its all been quite sudden but I am sure of my feelings for him, the months of waiting to see him again after meeting in Feb were agonising! When Jack asked me if I would marry him, I didnt hesitate, I said yes. We talked about when we would see each other again and he talked of a 'paper' that would allow us to be together without being hassled etc and would let us share a flat for a week when i came. Jack told me the paper cost £900.00, as I didn't have that sort of cash, he paid for it, money he had saved. I didn't understand why a peice of paper could cost so much! He explained that it wasn't a marriage licence or marriage certificate but it was just so we could be together. He told me that we have to go to Cairo to get married legally, which I know as I loked at their website. After reading your postings about some relationships between Egyptian men and English women,naturally I'm slightly concerened. I guess the paper that Jack was telling about, he showed me it when I returned last week, was green, is this orfi-marriage thing? He tried to translate it for me, he speaks excellent English. We brought each other our wedding rings while I was there and on my last day he took me to meet his mother and family at his home.Jack has asked me for no money - only the money for the flat which was £250.00 and seeing as he paid around £900.00 for the 'paper' I thought it was only fair to pay for the flat. We had a fantastic time, my mum and dad came too, they stayed in the hotel. I guess I just wanted some kind of assurance as you seem to know a lot about this orfi-marriage thing. please feel free to email me
charmed0001@aol.com

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posted 12 January 2004 11:35 AM            

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Originally posted by Shareen:
Hi Jacqueline
I'm glad you appreciated a frank and honest reply. Thank you.
Congratulations on your marriage. You are indeed lucky to have a successful marriage. And that goes no matter which country you live in or what nationality you have married. It takes hard work to make a marriage work, and sometimes even that isnt enough. And to be married to a man from a different culture is even harder. Nice one girl!
I too, am extremely saddened and angered by the abuse some women suffer at the hands of men. One of my particular friends who suffered at the hands of a man, now will not go back to Luxor just in case she sees him in the street. She is so afraid. Such a shame because her love of Egypt itself is so strong. Hopefully one day she will find the strength to return. That man physically and mentally abused her, as well as reducing her life savings zero. Here she is a strong woman, brought up her children by herself... and completely fell for the line he spun. I saw with my own eyes the evilness in that man. All I can say is...... I am so looking forward to bumping into him myself... Just for once, you may find me in the Kings Head or lurking in a corner in the Tut disco.... lmao.... beware!!!!

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posted 10 July 2004 04:35 AM            

At the end of the day i have someone who told me last night that he was really jealous and wanted me for myself, well I am sorry only a man in love could say that, for God's sake I am 48 and fat what chance have I of attracting scores of nublie young men, but he thinks i could. Hurrah.

I totally believe in my Mahmoud, hey I could be wrong but only by testing the water can I find out. But I have kept on my property in England and I am renting it out so I have both an income and a refuge.

posted 13 September 2004 06:40 PM            

Shareen, thankyou for your frank and honest reply. It saddens and angers me when I hear of women being badly treated by men. Whilst like yourself I wasnt as naive as many women that I have met and heard about since my first trip to egypt, if I had known what I know now I doubt if I would ever have considered marriage to an egyptian and I would have missed out on the last two years which have been the happiest of my life. I absolutely adore my husband and could not even imagine what life would be like without him. I realise that I have been extremely lucky, he could have turned out to be rotten like many others - he still could - theres time yet I suppose. Why are men such bastards, is it something in their Y chromosome or what?
As for whether Orfi marriage between egyptians and non-egyptians is legal I have absolutely no doubt that it is of no legal value whatsover. One reason that I am so sure is that I have it on the authority of the egyptian embassy in london and the british embassy in cairo that the only way to get a legal marriage is at the ministry of justice in cairo and that orfi marriage is not legal at all either in egypt or the country of the non-egyptian spouse. However orfi marriage between two egyptians in some cases may have some legal value but never between egyptians and non-egyptians. The main reason for this is that the non-egyptian has to have a document from their embassy to prove that they are free to marry and this is not requested in orfi marriage so orfi marriage to non-egyptians can never be legal. I know of women who are legally married in england but have orfi marriages in egypt, how can this be legal, a woman can have only one husband at a time, why do lawyers not ask for proof of divorce if the woman has been married before? because they know it isnt legal anyway so they dont have to bother and they dont care, all they want is your 200LE or whatever they have managed to screw you for. Many orfi marriage papers to non-egyptians that I have seen also make no mention of a dowry, if there is no dowry there cannot be a legal marriage as this is essential in egypt under the marriage laws. Anyone who doubts this can easily verify this for themselves by contacting the egyptian embassy in their own country and their own embassy in egypt. The reason why lawyers get away with it is because if any couple planning to marry wishes to have a lawyers contract to have additional conditions added to the standard marriage contract drawn up by the mazoon at the marriage court, they can do so. This is the case whether both or only one of the parties are egyptian. Lawyers if challenged will simply claim that this is all they did and that it was not their responsibily or business whether the couple then used that paper to add to the paper at the marriage court or whether they even went to the marriage court. The lawyer will claim that he drew up the contract in good faith and that if the couple didnt go ahead with the marriage at the marriage court then this is not his problem, that he has done nothing wrong. The british embassy in cairo has a pro-forma marriage contract that they had prepared by an egptian female lawyer based in cairo and will give you a copy of it free of charge. This contract takes advantage of many recent changes in the marriage laws that can give women more rights if the man agrees to sign the contract. This contract has to be taken to a lawyer for both parties and witnesses to sign. This is not a marriage paper, it is a kind of pre-nuptial contract that is only enforcable if the marriage takes place and the contract is presented to the mazoon at the time of the marriage. You then take this to the ministry of justice, they will ask if you want to add anything to the standard contract, you then give them this other contract and they will add the conditions to the standard contract as long as the conditions are valid in law and agreed by both parties. So what you have from the lawyer is not a marriage contract but merely a pre-nuptial agreement that has no validity unless the marriage actually takes place. I can therefore assure you and anyone else that has this kind of paper that you are not married so you need have no fear of any legal repercussions regarding this paper.[/QUOTE]

posted 14 September 2004 06:36 AM            

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Originally posted by Nefret-Iabet:
Some questions for all you knowledgeable people - the info is vital and thanks. If an orfi marriage does not work out, how does one end it? Just say goodbye or is there actually a legal process involved?

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The only safe answer to this question is to take your marriage papers along to lawyer (one recommended by the British Embassy website would be a good choice) and ask him. The lawyer would give the correct answer for your set of papers, seeing what is written there and what court, if any, stamps there are and checking with the court.

The only legal knowledge we have on these forums is from watching reruns of LA Law.

posted 14 September 2004 06:53 AM            

To prevent yourself from being screwd...dont marry orfi way.If you're really married orfi way...just tear up the papers...end of story!

posted 14 September 2004 07:01 AM            

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Originally posted by Natashiah:

To prevent yourself from being screwd...dont marry orfi way.If you're really married orfi way...just tear up the papers...end of story!

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If your Orfi marriage has been registered at the court therby stopping being orfi(which means unregistered) then you need a divorce. That is why it is best to get proper legal advice.