posted 29 December 2003 08:46 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adoula:
Hi Jen,

The problem is that women have so many expectations from men. They want our attention, they want our affection, and they want us to be their friends.

They want us to be compassionate, they want our understanding, they want us to be respectful, they want us to be honorable, they want us to be responsible, they want us to care, they want us to be sympathetic, they want our loyalty, they want us to be good lovers, they want us to be good husbands, they want us to be good fathers. They want us to be helpful, to be involved in all decisions, to be answerable, to be faithful. In simple terms, they want to re-mould us into a man as defined by women.

---

posted 29 December 2003 09:29 AM            

Will answer U later.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jamilah:
Yes, i want it but it doesn't mean that 7/24 but at least to give me some time a day but to input in this time all these feelings and attitude. Is it so difficult? Adoula, tell me why it's not impossible for a man? why a man cannot do at the same time several things at least two? why he cannot think during his work only 5 min about me? and always forgets something very important to me? its related to all men in the world!!!! why? i don't ask to write poems or to be a hero or something i need just a little of his attention.....

---

posted 29 December 2003 02:19 PM            

I will not talk about your experience with men or this Egyptian man particularly, but will speak general:

None of these men (U was talking about)was experts. None of them was sociologists, psychologists, or relationship experts. They're just regular guys:

Regular guys means, that they R working hard, can not support a beach house, a range rover, and small villa with garden from day one.

Of course, wanting a good man who respects women and just remeber you for five minuted during work isn't asking too much.

But what about when it goes far beyond that? For some women, having a good man just isn't enough. They also want a Lexus, a villa with a private pool, and a never finished credit cards. When they don't have these things, they moan and complain as though life is terrible.

Some women, without even knowing it, are driving the men who love them right out of their lives. For the most part, women aren't getting information about men straight from the source. They're asking other women.

1- Wanting too many things.
2- Being a drama queen.

Jamilah,
Men can love and work at same time, can remember your birthday and your mothers birthday at same time, save some money for a one week trip to Greece and pay your credit cards which U melted. But it is your role to drive them to do all this.

Women can drive men to do crazy things in life, either good things or bad things.

posted 29 December 2003 02:30 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adoula:
In simple terms, they want to re-mould us into a man as defined by women.

---

ok dear Adoula, you ask my opinion ...

posted 29 December 2003 02:32 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by egy_prince:
I just wanted to add the reply number 500

so "HII"

---

HIIIIII egy_prince

posted 29 December 2003 03:16 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by msjen:
HIIIIII egy_prince

cheeky bugger, now that means that you regularly need to post here!!!

---

msjen,
is it supposed for me to think this is an insult

posted 29 December 2003 03:43 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by egy_prince:
msjen,
is it supposed for me to think this is an insult

---

no insult sorry egy_prince, just being cheeky myself ...

posted 30 December 2003 01:09 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by msjen:
ok dear Adoula, you ask my opinion ...

no seriously, i actually have a strong opinion on that - please could you tell me first exactly what a man defined by a man is in your opinion.

---

Jen,
If your question is: what it means to be a man??? I will answer:

By defenition, being a man means strength, courage, knowledge, love, understanding,
compassion, hope, and commitment.

Being a man to me means taking responsibilities for my actions.

Unfortunately some men think that not showing emotion, not showing weakness and being in control all of the time is a signs of real men. Some people perceive being in control is a sign of the guys who are cool.

And yes, women like strong men who are in control.

To me keeping this emotions and experiences inside, is not healthy for my inside part, I can show emotions and feeling but stay in control at the same time.

Feelings and emotions are tools that help us deal with everyday life. And once we lose those feelings, we become very constricted.

As someone said: "The reason why so many men end up being abusive to women, whether sexually, physically or emotionally, is not just because they just don't have access to their feelings, it's also because they bought into the idea that being a man means being in control of other people—your wife, your girlfriend or other women."

A man’s man is not someone who can handle emotional and physical pain without crying, (even Jesus cried), but someone who can handle it without anger or violence.

By the way am talking general, and not talking about some mistakes in raising boys, coz we have the same mistakes when we raise girls.

If U will ask me what is wrong in raising girls, I will tell U it is that they say from birth that there is something wrong
with U. U must play with stupid dolls and kitchen sets and learning how to change diapers at age 5 or 6, U can't walk alone at night because U might get attacked, raped, or killed..

Jen, am not talking about U and me, or any specific culture but again am general.

Back to men issue:

Some men misunderstood the phrase of being a head of his wife, the right meaning is to be the person your wife instinctively runs to whenever something emotionally significant happens to her – when she is frightened, depressed, or elated; whenever she wants comfort, reassurance, understanding, it means a listening ear.

Now the question must be: how we (both women and men) can be truly revolutionary against this wrong habits and thoughts?

Now, I must admit that this is my opinion and what I think of the right things, but may be not all what I wrote is my own words, I got some from my readings and search.

posted 30 December 2003 02:51 AM            

Thank you for your input!!!!

What men really want: are emotionally strong women, he really wants and needs a woman strong enough to motivate him emotionally and spiritually? Everybody wants it!!!!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adoula:
Jamilah,
A good marriage is at least 80 percent good luck in finding the right person at the right time. The rest is trust.

Jamilah,
Men can love and work at same time, can remember your birthday and your mothers birthday at same time, save some money for a one week trip to Greece and pay your credit cards which U melted. But it is your role to drive them to do all this.

Women can drive men to do crazy things in life, either good things or bad things.

---

posted 30 December 2003 02:52 AM            

I can see your points in general but again some points which I dont agree.
I can say that men have most of the same expecatations from women and much more. They want us to be beauty, sexy, attractive,good wifes, good cooks,good cleaner,good mother etc.

Shortly I can say that both gender has expectations from each other.I am also talking about the general because I believe that the mentality of the expectations depends on the education, culture, career of each person.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adoula:

The problem is that women have so many expectations from men. They want our attention, they want our affection, and they want us to be their friends.

They want us to be compassionate, they want our understanding, they want us to be respectful, they want us to be honorable, they want us to be responsible, they want us to care, they want us to be sympathetic, they want our loyalty, they want us to be good lovers, they want us to be good husbands, they want us to be good fathers. They want us to be helpful, to be involved in all decisions, to be answerable, to be faithful. In simple terms, they want to re-mould us into a man as defined by women.

If you fail to meet their expectations there is a price to pay. No matter how much you do, it will never be enough; no matter how much you try, it will never be enough.

Men are not perfect, nor do we profess to be. There are many things that we do wrong, but everything is relative.

That's My Opinion. What's Yours?

[/B]

---

posted 30 December 2003 05:05 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adoula:
Unfortunately some men think that not showing emotion, not showing weakness and being in control all of the time is a signs of real men. Some people perceive being in control is a sign of the guys who are cool.

And yes, women like strong men who are in control.

Back to men issue:

Some men misunderstood the phrase of being a head of his wife, the right meaning is to be the person your wife instinctively runs to whenever something emotionally significant happens to her – when she is frightened, depressed, or elated; whenever she wants comfort, reassurance, understanding, it means a listening ear.

---

Dear Adoula

Now I'm confused. In your previous post you wrote down all the expectations from a woman to a man and postulated that you described 'a man as defined by a woman'

quote:

---

The problem is that women have so many expectations from men. They want our attention, they want our affection, and they want us to be their friends.

They want us to be compassionate, they want our understanding, they want us to be respectful, they want us to be honorable, they want us to be responsible, they want us to care, they want us to be sympathetic, they want our loyalty, they want us to be good lovers, they want us to be good husbands, they want us to be good fathers. They want us to be helpful, to be involved in all decisions, to be answerable, to be faithful. In simple terms, they want to re-mould us into a man as defined by women.

---

Now you're explaining to me the difference between the way that girls and boys are raised to adopt their gender-specific behavious.

But to respond to both these posts:

In your post in which you describe a 'woman's expacations to a man' (quoted above):
In my personal opinion, these are expectations that i would have to ANY family member, friend, or colleage, or any person on this planet.

however, no-one is perfect!

putting your expactations as high as to find a perfect human being is totally unrealistic in my opinion.

This is not to say that some people don't "see" their partner as a perfect match (at least for a time) - after all there's chemistry involved and that supposedly makes people blind from time to time ... just good to know that this may fade off - and just good to learn to love your partner WITH all their weaknesses. This goes for family and friends, too, leant to love them WITH all their weaknesses and life becomes so much easier ...

With regards to your above e-mail: yes, i can see that in many societies, girls and boys are raised according to what you write above.
And in male-dominated societies i can see the consequenses you described above.

Looks as if we're back to the mask topic here, to deal with this in your life time it is probably best to show yourself to your family and friends AS YOU ARE and not as you're expected to be.
With regards to women, I cannot tell the cultural difference between African/Middle Eastern women and Western European women (simply because I don't know African/Middle Eastern women well enough) but I do not know ANY women here who would prefer a 'strong' guy to an 'open' guy. It seems so obvious to me that openness and honesty is key to any relationship and NOT false strength. I don't know your culture well enough to speak for Egyptian women, but I cannot imagine any woman I know who would want a partner who doesn't not show any feelings ...

so the answer to your question

quote:

---

Now the question must be: how we (both women and men) can be truly revolutionary against this wrong habits and thoughts?

---

I don't see that we need to start a revolution, just reflect on what we want from ourselves in life and our friends and family around us. Then build up friendships with people who make us feel happy and appreciated and leave those aside who give us a feeling of inadequacy.

posted 30 December 2003 05:10 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jamilah:
What men really want: are emotionally strong women, he really wants and needs a woman strong enough to motivate him emotionally and spiritually? Everybody wants it!!!!

---

Hey Jamilah, something for you to ponder on:

posted 30 December 2003 05:14 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by fantachero:
Hi Adoula and all other friends,

I can see your points in general but again some points which I dont agree.
I can say that men have most of the same expecatations from women and much more. They want us to be beauty, sexy, attractive,good wifes, good cooks,good cleaner,good mother etc.

Shortly I can say that both gender has expectations from each other.I am also talking about the general because I believe that the mentality of the expectations depends on the education, culture, career of each person.

---

good points, fanta!

posted 30 December 2003 06:19 AM            

women by the way are more defenceless and weeker then men... (of couse depends on types of men)

quote:

---

Originally posted by msjen:
Hey Jamilah, something for you to ponder on:

Would you agree that those who can be the strongstst at times can be the weakest at times, too?

By the way, nice to see you posting again! What's the situation with your man?

---

posted 30 December 2003 08:23 AM            

I have been around but terribly busy.You know year end is always so terrible for bankers.I miss to read the thread really.
I will try to follow up the film project today.
Actually I dont know where is baba-mido? Do you remember the magic words to bring him back?!?

quote:

---

Originally posted by msjen:
good points, fanta!

by the way, where have you been? and where is your input in our film project? and where is baba_mido?

---

posted 30 December 2003 01:34 PM            

He don't need to write love poems, or send U flowers every day. Little things can make a big difference. Things like an occasional call from work, complementing U in front of your friends.

Here is a quote for U:

Women do a lot of little things and men tend to do one big thing, but women regard each little thing they do separately and equal, where men seem to think that one big thing covers for all the little things!

You see, that's a big secret....if men could learn to do all the little things they wouldn't need to do the big thing!

posted 30 December 2003 01:57 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by msjen:
No one is perfect...

---

Good point wise Jen,

Serious. A woman don't have to be as shapely as Barbie to get a man attention.

A man don't have to be a poet writer to get a woman attention.

Women date men, and marry men, even though they're obviously not perfect.

Women'll search and search for Mr. Perfect, and then one day they'll realize that "Mr. Perfect" doesn't exist, and if he does, he may be married.

I have learnt something nice from U, that the best policy is to be yourself....No masks

posted 30 December 2003 02:13 PM            

Women are like waves. In relationships, women rise and fall in their ability to love.

On the other hand, women, find men unpredictable, difficult and impossible.

If men learn to accept that women are human beings with strengths, weaknesses, and doubts, they are likely to be more accepting of them.

Same goes with women.

posted 31 December 2003 06:09 PM            

Looking forward to meet you in a few days msjen!

Adoula, fanta, msjen, Jamilah, egypt_prince it was so cool to keep the competition thread alive and surpassing 500 posts...You people are really FUN...Laura...and all, I hope you're having a wonderful time

tjohnson, about the mango comment, I've learned the hard way....I guess I'll have to find a mango juice substitute!!! Any suggestions anyone?

From
Monica
With Love

posted 05 January 2004 04:15 AM            

Wish all your dreams become true in new year, best wishes to all...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jamilah:
Dear BOARD!!!
Monica, Jen, Adoula, Laura, Nefertiti, Fanta and others!!!!
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!! Wish you luck and happiness in this coming year!!!!
LOVE AND BE LOVED!!!!!

See you soon

---

posted 08 January 2004 04:14 AM            

(lover) means to be pretty and sexy in my eyes all the time

posted 08 January 2004 04:30 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by fantachero:
Hi Jen,

I have been around but terribly busy.You know year end is always so terrible for bankers.I miss to read the thread really.
I will try to follow up the film project today.
Actually I dont know where is baba-mido? Do you remember the magic words to bring him back?!?

---

posted 08 January 2004 06:44 AM            

welcome back.Thanks, I am quiet well and seems time can really ease every pain.Maybe using your magic words to call the peace in my life also helped and seems it worked

quote:

---

Originally posted by BaBa-Mido:
fanta,
what's up dear? hope that you feel well now after that explosion?
the magic words are ( FROM THE LAND BEYOND BEYOND,FROM THE WORLD THAT HAS NO HOPE AND FEAR,I WISH YOU MY SWEET HEART,BABY, HONEY BABA-MIDO NOW TO APPEAR

---

posted 08 January 2004 02:10 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adoula:
Good point wise Jen,

Serious. A woman don't have to be as shapely as Barbie to get a man attention.

A man don't have to be a poet writer to get a woman attention.

Women date men, and marry men, even though they're obviously not perfect.

Women'll search and search for Mr. Perfect, and then one day they'll realize that "Mr. Perfect" doesn't exist, and if he does, he may be married.

I have learnt something nice from U, that the best policy is to be yourself....No masks

---

posted 08 January 2004 03:39 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by BaBa-Mido:
Jen

I missed you sweety, thanks for asking about me, I belive that you have a heart enough to take all the world,,,,,

---

BIIIIIIG heart, but unhappy that it takes you so bloody long to reply to posts!

and quite frankly, if you miss someone, it doesn't takes months to do that.

so i am assuming that this is egyptian sweet-talk!

direct jen

posted 08 January 2004 03:43 PM            

i nearly forgot:
wishing you a very very happy new year 2004!

posted 09 January 2004 07:25 AM            

The author is really eloquent, covering a few magical spots in Egypt - including Alexandria, to my personal delight as I can't stop reading about it, as usual!

Any other Alexandria lovers??? and any particular reason for it?

quote:

---

Originally posted by msjen:
dear all

i nearly forgot:
wishing you a very very happy new year 2004!

love,
jen x

---

posted 09 January 2004 12:52 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Debbie:
msjen...

Just noticed that when you started this thread you said you were at Post #197. As I write this, you are on Post #634. Are most of the other 437 posts you've written since all here in Competition? Just wondering.

---

jawohl, and on top of that i created user names for all the other people on this thread so i'd be ablt to respond to my own messages

oh dear, i thought this was an insult but then did a search for my own posts (lol) just to find that the competition thread is not even on the results page

no ok, i like the FUN threads (eg Laura's filming and picture threads, Adel's mask and evil threads, fanta's language exchange thread, etc).

posted 09 January 2004 12:57 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Monica:
To all Egypt lovers in general, and Sharm El Sheikh dreamers/lovers in particular, check this: http://www.egypttoday.com
The coverpage will certainly make you pack your luggage - quicker, I can feel it.... right MSJEN?

The author is really eloquent, covering a few magical spots in Egypt - including Alexandria, to my personal delight as I can't stop reading about it, as usual!

Any other Alexandria lovers??? and any particular reason for it?

---

posted 10 January 2004 07:24 AM            

In the meantime, it's still -26c ayayayayay...

How is your book about the universe???

For wry 'Egyptian' humour, and resonant writing ( translated from arabic) , try the Egyptian writer Naguib Mahfouz's 'The Harafish' ( meaning the common people, in a positive way - the small jobs, the unemployed, the homeless...) And by October I'll pass a few other book titles that could make a difference in how you perceive Egyptians, so that you are ready for at least 2 weeks in Egypt

quote:

---

Originally posted by msjen:
very nice, thank you!
i have an idea, maybe i should start playing the lottery - what do you think?

---

posted 12 January 2004 09:08 AM            

How are things?

Wish you the most happiness...enjoy Sharm

Monica

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jamilah:
Hello!!! How are you? Hopethat everybody is OK!!!
I'm in Sharm now!!!!! That'sso super!!!! But unfortunately it's so cold in the eening that we have to put on warm cloths I couldn't imagine that the weather is like that, pitty. The water is not warm enough i didn't swim but there are a lot of people who sweam!
Oh, mamma mia, I love this place so much!!!!!! I can't describe you my feelings in words but i hope you do understand what i feel now...
I think that i will come here more and more...
Wish you all good luck and happiness!!!!

---

posted 19 January 2004 03:19 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Monica:
Jamilah...carissima!

How are things?

Wish you the most happiness...enjoy Sharm

Monica

---

posted 24 January 2004 11:07 PM            

I'm going back to Sharm in february the 12. My first trip there was last ocotber, and it was nice and warm there..

See you "complained" that there was so cold there now in the evenings..Just wondering.. How cold?

Cold cold....
og just cold..(just need a jumper....)

Jenny

posted 25 January 2004 12:45 PM            

I could say that unless it's 2 or 3 pm when the sun has warmed the water (is it only my imagination?) the water is cold in the morning and cold after 4pm in february.

During the early morning and evening you could wear the thicker fleece/jumper/jacquet there is a breeze that could hit you as a light chill. Wakes you up!

But in the middle of the day, when very sunny, you can certainly tan nicely.

Enjoy every minute in Egypt! Will you be going with friends? do you have a travel plan? have you taken a look at Debbie's site? I think it is: http://www.casualdetours.com

Update us...

Monica

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jenny:
Hi Jamilah!

I'm going back to Sharm in february the 12. My first trip there was last ocotber, and it was nice and warm there..

See you "complained" that there was so cold there now in the evenings..Just wondering.. How cold?

Cold cold....
og just cold..(just need a jumper....)

Jenny

[This message has been edited by Jenny (edited 24 January 2004).]

---

posted 25 January 2004 12:48 PM            

I know that your work schedule has changed, but funny girl take a minute and a half, and share some laughs .....

Missed your quick and funny posts!
Monica

quote:

---

Originally posted by msjen:
very nice, thank you!
i have an idea, maybe i should start playing the lottery - what do you think?

---

posted 25 January 2004 07:54 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Monica:
Hey Jenny,

I could say that unless it's 2 or 3 pm when the sun has warmed the water (is it only my imagination?) the water is cold in the morning and cold after 4pm in february.

During the early morning and evening you could wear the thicker fleece/jumper/jacquet there is a breeze that could hit you as a light chill. Wakes you up!

But in the middle of the day, when very sunny, you can certainly tan nicely.

Enjoy every minute in Egypt! Will you be going with friends? do you have a travel plan? have you taken a look at Debbie's site? I think it is: http://www.casualdetours.com

Update us...

Monica

---

Hi Monica

Thanks for your reply,
I'm traveling with a friend... We don't have a travel plan yet.We are only going for one week,so most of the time will just be to relax on the beach during the days and take small trips.. Like to Ras Mohammed and to Dahab..

We desided only 3 days ago,so we haven't saved a lot of money for this trip, but both of us are just glad to get away.. So I think we will have a great time whatever we do!And we got to know a lot of people last time we were there so hopefully we will meet some of theme to..

I haven't looked at Debbies site yet.. but will to that..Thank you for your advise.

posted 26 January 2004 03:48 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jenny:
Hi Jamilah!

I'm going back to Sharm in february the 12. My first trip there was last ocotber, and it was nice and warm there..

See you "complained" that there was so cold there now in the evenings..Just wondering.. How cold?

Cold cold....
og just cold..(just need a jumper....)

Jenny

[This message has been edited by Jenny (edited 24 January 2004).]

---

posted 26 January 2004 03:48 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jenny:
Hi Jamilah!

I'm going back to Sharm in february the 12. My first trip there was last ocotber, and it was nice and warm there..

See you "complained" that there was so cold there now in the evenings..Just wondering.. How cold?

Cold cold....
og just cold..(just need a jumper....)

Jenny

[This message has been edited by Jenny (edited 24 January 2004).]

---

posted 26 January 2004 03:49 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jenny:
Hi Jamilah!

I'm going back to Sharm in february the 12. My first trip there was last ocotber, and it was nice and warm there..

See you "complained" that there was so cold there now in the evenings..Just wondering.. How cold?

Cold cold....
og just cold..(just need a jumper....)

Jenny

[This message has been edited by Jenny (edited 24 January 2004).]

---

posted 28 January 2004 11:17 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Monica:
Dear msjen,

I know that your work schedule has changed, but funny girl take a minute and a half, and share some laughs .....

Missed your quick and funny posts!
Monica

---

BACK AGAIN! at last! just trying to catch up here - lots of new names etc. , not sure if my little brain can cope with that, we'll see.

posted 28 January 2004 11:27 AM            

Laura totally disappeared from 'virtual' life. LAURAAAA..... her family took over the computer I think! I can imagine her trying to pull it from them with a beautiful turtle in one hand, and a gorgeous new cat on the other....oh well, maybe she will come back SOOON!?

Nice new people all over ES, you're right!

Catch you later!!

quote:

---

Originally posted by msjen:
BACK AGAIN! at last! just trying to catch up here - lots of new names etc. , not sure if my little brain can cope with that, we'll see.

but where is laura???

---

posted 28 January 2004 08:20 PM            

DID YOU KNOW that when booking a room in a five star hotel through a travel agent in Cairo/Alexandria you can 'negotiate', yep! it's a fact!

All questions will be answered in full!
so, shoot....

Monica