posted 19 February 2004 12:53 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lori:
Dear Karin,

Thank you for the nice words. It is a pleasure to meet someone so progressive. If more people thought like you, the earth would be a better place.

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posted 22 February 2004 04:14 AM            

thank you very much, it is my pleasure to meet you.

I have never been a devouted christian, but of course as a child I loved x-mas and easter. But did it have any religious meaning to me? no way. It was about presents, family gatherings, decorations and cookies. When one grows up what remains of it is a habit and the need to spend money for presents based on a who gets what list, without any real meaning.

I don't mean to offend anybody, this is only my own personal experience and thoughts.

When I left christianity for Islam I did not lose the christian celebrations, I won the Islamic celebrations, which are joyfully alive besides meaningful and adults do enjoy them as much as the young because they are also spiritually rewarding.

Nevertheless I'll always be 'allowed' to join my family gatherings in Austria. My parents are allowed to talk about anything, and I wish they would! As long as my parents don't advice me against my duties I have as a Muslim (to pray, not to drink alcohol, not to eat pork etc.) I have to listen to them and obey them.

Life does not stop when one embraces Islam, my family will always be my family, I owe them their due respect and even though they don't believe in the same way that makes me happy, they are still in my heart and my thoughts and my prayers.

posted 22 February 2004 05:27 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by karinfarid:
dear Lori, Monica

thank you very much, it is my pleasure to meet you.

I have never been a devouted christian, but of course as a child I loved x-mas and easter. But did it have any religious meaning to me? no way. It was about presents, family gatherings, decorations and cookies. When one grows up what remains of it is a habit and the need to spend money for presents based on a who gets what list, without any real meaning.

I don't mean to offend anybody, this is only my own personal experience and thoughts.

When I left christianity for Islam I did not lose the christian celebrations, I won the Islamic celebrations, which are joyfully alive besides meaningful and adults do enjoy them as much as the young because they are also spiritually rewarding.

Nevertheless I'll always be 'allowed' to join my family gatherings in Austria. My parents are allowed to talk about anything, and I wish they would! As long as my parents don't advice me against my duties I have as a Muslim (to pray, not to drink alcohol, not to eat pork etc.) I have to listen to them and obey them.

Life does not stop when one embraces Islam, my family will always be my family, I owe them their due respect and even though they don't believe in the same way that makes me happy, they are still in my heart and my thoughts and my prayers.

love and peace to all of you, Karin

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Dear Karin,
It is a joy to read your experience and understand the fantastic way you dealt with what is a challenge for many.

As for me, Christmas and Easter were always religious experiences as well as family experiences, and gifts were appreciated also for the thought behind. This does not mean we made and got cheap presents, but that we really chose presents with the person in mind.

Somehow I suspect that God is One whatever we may call Him, and that the Church, Mosque or Sinagogue are some sort of institutions meant to promote God. They are not the same in the way they promote God but their purpose is the same. Anyway, they should not be confounded with God. God never asked for money to enlighten others, but the church does. And a lot of money they got over the years, the greedy priests!

In an earthly comparison, the famous singer Shakira needs an agent to get her the best gigs. He gets her the best deals on hr CD's and shows, and gets a percentage of her winnings. Still, people listen to Shakira and not to her agent. Most don't even know his name.

If people listened more to God than to his agents things would be far better in this world. Just my opinion.

Maybe you or Monica or someone may like to comment on this?

It's great that you have embraced Islam the way you did, and even better to deduce your family on both sides appreciate you for it.

Hats off to you!

Cheers,
Lori

posted 22 February 2004 06:34 AM            

gosh, we have come very far from the initial subject!

thank you so much for your comments. I have found it very rewarding to study Islam, which gave me a connection to Jesus (as) that I have not had before in all my life.

For sure, God is only one God, and the church, mosque and synagogue are places of worship to Him. However, in Islam there is no such institution as 'the church' as a missing link between the people and God, there are no intermediaries, it is just us (with our belief and deeds) and there is God. There are no agents in Islam.

The idea that every person is responsible only for him/herself I found very appealing, also the concept that all the monotheistic religions do have the same roots and worship the same God.

If more people realized this fact, this world would be a better place also, I think!

posted 22 February 2004 06:47 AM            

It's actually great to be able to expand on all topics...and on the same thread!

Lori, I have a particular situation myself, since my mom a Christian, married my dad a Muslim.

So in all honesty, seing this wonderful couple go through life with so much love and respect towards one another, how can I differentiate between religions, when at the end of the day the objective is One God!

quote:

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Originally posted by Lori:

Maybe you or Monica or someone may like to comment on this?

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posted 22 February 2004 08:59 AM            

Here is my opinion:
It is sometimes claimed by Muslims that Islam is Christianity’s sister religion.

Both are religions of peace, and the teachings of Jesus are incorporated in the Qur’an.

Jesus himself didn’t start a new religion. He was a teacher. He taught in the language and custom of his hearers. At a personal level his teaching was practical, simple, and, even now, modern.

The Qur’an teaches that it is itself a complete guide to life — religious and secular — under servitude to God.

Yet one Lord, one God was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be world without end.

posted 23 February 2004 06:10 AM            

I'm following the interesting talks and inputs, even it's not the theme I wanted to catch, but my mistake.

I wanna thank you all of you for your interest and I'm looking forward to see how it's going on!

I'm flying on 29 back to egypt, to see my life there and what my future brings.

posted 31 July 2004 04:07 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Butterfly:
Hello all members

I heard about egyptian girls, they are not virgin anymore and they also marry.

What about they have to show the blood after the wedding-night? Are there tricks?

Cheers to all

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I used to know a Turkish girl,she was a muslim and wanted to keep her virginity untill she was married.
She had anal sex instead of vaginal???

posted 24 November 2004 08:52 AM            

I came back to Egypt this summer after being gone for 7 years..and honestly I couldn't believe what the girls here are doing!

Last time I was here..girls were ashamed to be seen talking to a guy in public let alone holding hands, and kissing and touching and just being disguisting and disrespectful to themselves...

I didn't believe friends in Canada that used to tell me about girls "re-virginizing" or I like to put becoming "re-dedicated virgins" and all that craziness...but now with what I see in the PUBLIC EYE..it's no wonder girls have to go through all these crazy operations...

It makes me wonder..I lived in the United Arab Emirates for a few years..and used to think about what a closed society they were and that it was no wonder that their young men and women were acting out the way they did...but Egypt has always been somewhat more liberated than other Arab countries..with the exception of Lebanon...

So with this crazy outburst in sexual activity...it makes me wonder how oppressed or deprived were our youth!! Then I think...no it''s not about that..it's about the WESTERN influence on our Islamic and cultural traditions that have caused this mess!

Then again...everyone has a mind and everyone knows right from wrong..so before I can go bashing western media and western culture....why are we..as an ISLAMIC society...turning our backs to our true roots and beliefs?? What for?? A couple hours of unrelenting pleasure?? Nahh...there's gotta be more to it...or maybe not...

posted 24 November 2004 10:12 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hope881:
Then again...everyone has a mind and everyone knows right from wrong..so before I can go bashing western media and western culture....why are we..as an ISLAMIC society...turning our backs to our true roots and beliefs?? What for?? A couple hours of unrelenting pleasure?? Nahh...there's gotta be more to it...or maybe not...

I think here is your answer Hope. No society is ever perfect. From information I have about honour killings, about arab men going abroad and having ssex with everything that moved- it shows that this behavour would have come out anyway, with these men. There are rapes that happen in strict muslim countries that are not 'allowed' to be reported, there are old men marrying young girls for titilation etc. The point I am making is that it is not about the 'West' or the 'East' but about individual behavour and we as humans are not perfect and no society is either. I read so much on here that tries to portray Islam as being pure and clean. I think all religions in their truest form are pure and clean-it is when we aas humans tarnish this. We have to learn as a world to live and let live, to try and understand if not agree with the behaviour of others!!!

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posted 24 November 2004 10:22 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Adoula:
Monica,
I think it is not about the concepts of virginity, but about the making of good decisions, about a woman's right to choose, and about maintaining self-respect regardless of the choices made.

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posted 25 November 2004 03:01 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lori:
Dear Karin,

Thank you for the nice words. It is a pleasure to meet someone so progressive. If more people thought like you, the earth would be a better place.

The Christian girl in question is not Egyptian, but from Europe. I don't think she met Muslims before travelling to Egypt. She fell in love and it took her some time to realize all the implications to her life if she married.

What many people marrying outside their religion fail to realize that religion is not just the Holy Book, whether you call it the Qur'an, the Bible or the Torah. Religion is also represented in a million habits, holidays and celebrations with your family. Changing your religion means not being able to celebrate with loved ones. You celebrated Christmas and Easter all your life and all of a sudden you are not allowed at family gatherings, and even if you would go the family would be divided and you are regarded as an intruder.

Your parents may not have a word in how your children, their grandchildren, are raised, for fear they will instill religious beliefs they are not allowed to talk about.

If it was only the religion, it would be simple! But it's also a family matter. I am sure that Muslims, who are also family oriented, understand the issue.

Peace,
Lori

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Hello Lori,
i am not commenting in the subject itself cause the name of the subject i don't like it but i am commenting about the challange that could any converter could see when he change his religion .if u want to know the real truth and the right in this subject as i think u must look to it as i am living a temporary life or with another example

u go to the dentist allthough u know your teeth will pain there cause u know if u didn't go to him and u didn't bear this pains u will feel more pains after while so u must deal with life like that
u try to get the best of it without losing your other life or don't go to the dentist and it will pain u forever

posted 25 November 2004 10:34 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Adoula:
Dear Monica,

As U know, the community see that losing virginity is a big deal for a lot of reasons.

First, most relegions does not allow to have sex outside of marriage.

Second, sex is a risk, no matter how careful the girl was (pregnancy, diseases....etc.)

It's also a matter of morals and personality.

Girls virginity is something special. When they have sex for the first time, it is gone forever (U remeber Yousef Wahby quote).

In the Arab world, any sexual indiscretion committed by a female (if discovered) causes dishonour to her father's family, and more specifically to her father himself and to her brothers. This applies as much when the girl has left the family home and is married as it does when she is single.

Needless to say, this is a broad generalization of Arab male attitudes, and does not apply to all - especially educated and widely travelled - Middle Eastern men.

Monica, as U said, am very open mind in this area, and consider it as a very personal decesion for the girl. If she decide to loose it now, or if she made her decision that she only want to loose her virginity when she is married, that is her choice!

For me, there are two things that are vital for a relationship to work:

Respect, and open, honest, bi-directional communication.

So yes Monica, I have no problem with any girl if she will be honest with me.

Virginity may be lost in an instant, by choice or by force, through calculation or through bad judgment. It is, in my opinion, incredibly naive to think that a non-virgin is any less worthy of love than a virgin.

Sometimes I also wonder if we make too big of a deal about sex. I think...

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posted 26 November 2004 11:39 AM            

Many, many thanks for your nice comment!

quote:

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Originally posted by foreigngirl:
I like the way Adoula thinks, and hopefully it will print this time.

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posted 26 November 2004 11:48 AM            

It's the first time a film has ever dealt with a subject like this.

In the film, a 16-year old Egyptian girl, Yasmin, gives birth alone in the bathroom, after managing to hide her pregnancy from both her family and friends.

In fact, The film was inspired by the true story of a girl who was badly beaten by members of her family for losing her virginity before she was married.

posted 26 November 2004 12:57 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sokarya@hotmail.com:
Dear Hope, as you have defended your culture and criticised the lack of morality of the west, I think it only fair to say that in general terms, those in the West find it rather immoral to have several wives. Apparently the only reason for this that I have been able to find out is that most of the men have large sexual appetites, and so several wives are permitted to cut down the high level of homosexuality, incest, and bestiality. Perhaps you could let me know if there is another reason for a man needing 4 wives apart from the ones mentioned. Charlie

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Sokarya...I didn't criticize the lack of morality of the west....as a matter of fact I was born and raised in the USA and I studied in Canada..so I can't criticize..but I do understand that every society has their own individual culture...and we can't ignore the fact that the west is much more promiscuous then the middle east..and that western culture has by all means influenced middle eastern culture and traditions...but every society has their good and bad...so there's really no room for criticism..

Speaking of it being immoral to have several wives...western men don't find it immoral to be married and have 3,4,5 mistresses...which isn't honestly immoral in ur point of view? I would rather my husband be married in public in front of everyone..and me knowing what he's doing..then wondering when in the world is my husband going to come home..why he smells like other women's perfume and why he avoids me...If a man has a sexual appetite..then satisfy it by being honest and marrying...but don't be going around having affairs...and bringing back STD's and AIDS..and all those fatal diseases that are a result of promiscuity...

Now there's something you need to understand...men in Islam are allowed to have up to 4 wives...but ONLY under very specific conditions...such as..if his wife is ill..and can't perform her duties as a wife..or if she is barren..she can't have kids...he's entitled to have children...etc...and hey...if marrying more than one woman is going to prevent homosexuality, and incest and all that...then by all means...

Also...EVERY wife has to be treated the same....given the same rights...no one wife can have more or less than the other...

So before you go assuming things..and spreading wrong ideas...understand the reason behind everything..coz in ISLAM...there's ALWAYS a reason...and a LOGICAL one at that...

posted 07 July 2005 06:57 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by foreigngirl:
I agree with Adoula's form of thinking.

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Hi! I agree with what Adoula's had said. Maybe I can share about my story. I'm a Malay girl from Singapore. About six years ago I gotta know a Turkish guy thru ICQ. We got on VERY WELL and I told him everything about myself from our second conversation onwards... in other word, I'M VERY HONEST! I was an unmarried mum of a little girl age 3 when we first met online.
I told him all about my past... on how I have a daughter, what happened to me and all. He told me that he likes me a lot coz I was honest with him. He told me that 'Virginity' is in the mind... and so, our relationship blossom from then on. We never failed in keeping in touch with each other via all means that we can. One day I asked him (being Turkish) about what if his parents disapproved our relationship. He told me that it's his life and future... and so, he decides. We grew very close over the years and yes, we've met in person!!! And now, guess what happened?!!! Just a few days back, he told me that his family is marrying him off to a Turkish girl. I was so very depressed. I could still remember he always say that he wants the best for me. We did have plans of being together one day... but now... well, I dunno what to say. His family is still very conservative and to them, 'VIRGINITY' is VERY IMPORTANT!!! But, hey... yes, in the Islamic law, virginity is important but it DOES NOT state that non-virgins should be discriminated!!! In the first place, people can easily know when a woman is no longer a virgin (eg. having a child out of wedlock and all)... but hey, how do we tell when a man is no longer a virgin?!! What do they have to say about that?!!

posted 07 July 2005 07:49 AM            

No wonder u never come anywhere,don't wast ur time on that kind of ppl

the most importent must be to be a good human ...My God smile at me now