posted 26 March 2004 02:52 AM            

ORFI MARRIAGE IS ALMOST ALL TIME A WAY TO DO THINGS UNDERCOVER AND HIDE A FAULT..COZ IN ISLAM A REAL MARRIAGE NEEDS PUBLICITY FOR MAKING IT CLEAR AND SAVING BOTH PARTIES RIGHTS

And Raymon wrote :-
By the way, I don�t even consider an Orfi marriage a marriage for the beginning. C�mon it�s just a paper.

Time and time again we read here such sad stories of heartbreak in relationships between western women and Egyptian men. These relationships are so often based on deception and lies. The stories seem to get worse and worse.

In all the tourist areas sex tourism is now escalating at such a rate that Egypt�s reputation is being tarnished abroad.

The ORFI marriage contract, that can be taken from any lawyer for about LE100 ( the price says it all) is allowing all of these problems to happen. Why does the Egyptian government allow in its laws such a contract. I know of no other country that has a two tier system of marriage. You are either properly married under the customs and conventions of a country or you are not. Egypt is an Islamic country with strong traditions of family and religion. So why does it allow this cheap form of marriage and leave those that come here and who do not understand that it is possible to have two forms of so called marriage, so very vulnerable to these situations. Is Egypt not morally responsible to protect not only its citizens but also those that come here innocently to see this wonderful country. And yes, also there are those men and women that do not come here innocently but without the ORFI it would be very much harder to achieve their aims and they would go elsewhere, or better stay in their own countries.

I think it is time for the sake of the reputation of Egypt and its Islamic principles that the law is changed, and the ORFI is made illegal. If men and women want to marry then let there be one system for everybody, that everybody understands, and that should be according to the principles, religion and customs of Egypt.
If you cannot accept those customs and principles then do not get married.

posted 26 March 2004 03:03 AM            

Public acknowledgement is the biggest thing of course. And even if they had only one form of marriage they should make sure that always happens otherwise you still have different classes secret and open.

posted 26 March 2004 05:31 AM            

ORFI MARRIAGE IS ALMOST ALL TIME A WAY TO DO THINGS UNDERCOVER AND HIDE A FAULT..COZ IN ISLAM A REAL MARRIAGE NEEDS PUBLICITY FOR MAKING IT CLEAR AND SAVING BOTH PARTIES RIGHTS

And Raymon wrote :-
By the way, I don�t even consider an Orfi marriage a marriage for the beginning. C�mon it�s just a paper.

Morning all

well its true that egypt is an islamic state and so does our copt brothers live in with peace and i believe whenever it comes to an important issue like marriage or zawaj its a very important aspect to realise that marriage is no game or fun, its something really much important to consider and wisely...The word "zawj" is used in the Qur'an to mean a pair or a mate. In general it usage refers to marriage. The general purpose of marriage is that the sexes can provide company to one another, love to one another, procreate children and live in peace and tranquility to the commandments of Allah (God)

Marriage is "mithaq" - a covenant (agreement). It is not a matter which can be taken lightly. It should be entered into with total commitment and full knowledge of what it involves. It is not like buying a new dress where you can exchange it if you don't like it. Your partner should be your choice for life. One should be mature enough to understand the demands of marriage so that the union can be a lasting one. For a marriage to be valid certain conditions must be met and here they are friends:

1)Mutual agreement by the bride and the groom.
2)Two adult and sane witnesses.
3)Agreed-upon mahr (marriage gift) to be paid by the groom

4)Legal guardian (wakeel) representing the bride.
5)Written marriage contract signed by the bride and the groom and witnessed by 2 sane adult witnesses.
6)Ma'zoon (a responsible person [Muslim] officiating the marriage ceremony.
7) The marriage should be publicized, it should never be kept secret as it leads to suspicion and troubles within the community.

A man, however should not marry if he or she does not possess the means to maintain wife and future family, or if he has no sex drive or if dislikes children, or if he feels marriage will seriously affect his religious obligation.

there is much more about giving the wife her rights and making eachother happy which i will not get into details, but what i wanna mention here is that marriage is no game and certainly as i said why orfi???? why does the question of orfi arise ??? simply and mostly to hide something or do something undercover, apparently it would look like a marriage but logically its an escape which doesnt guarantee any part full legal rights or social or even family rights..

this topid is inteersting and good enough and from the requierements i mentioned u can figure out why orfi isnt a part of practicing the sacred rituals of pure marriage..

yeah it true like penny says much of broken heart stories are built up on lies and dishonesty and faking and etc... but still marriage is a bi gaffair and i believe if people stick to their religeous values, whether islamic or christian or whatever heavenly it is, i think they will understand that there are rules for a marriage ( iam no texempting women married by orfi from this coz they also should not run after their emotions only but take their guardians consent too, coz i believe its stated in all heavenly books)...

hope to see much of the feedback in here and may god bless u all

posted 26 March 2004 06:30 AM            

[Unofficial marriage(orfi marriage)] are legal if the couple and two witnesses sign the paper and if there are two copies of the contract.

And according to sharia law, it is legal. It is considered a non-notarized marriage. Orfi, however, in order to be legal, is a signed contract by two parties and two witness. In orfi marriages, Once you have a baby, there are no rights for it under law.

The unregistered [orfi] marriage is not against law yet it is not admitted in court.

Most of those married in unregistered orfi have the intention to divorce their wives after they get what they want from them I mean sexual enjoyment. But the law does not punish for intentions.

thats same debate exists every summer of what we call summer marriages here in egypt.The reason for the debate, is that temporary marriages are being abused in Egypt by Gulf Arabs. They come to Egypt, marry low- and middle-class girls for a specific period of time, pay a dowry and then divorce at summer's end.

well in my opinion thats some way of " legalised prostitution unfortunatelu"

and one more thing i believe since the intentions are being hidden for the lie and abuse , yes there inshallah shall be someway of limiting those unregistered way of mostly abusing marriages. If at a time they were legalised it was for a reason or another which shouldnt have abused, but nowadays with many changes and financial situations and corruption they are mostly a way of abuse...

believe me i hate to read all those stories but again these issues are of much debate among islam and fatwa scientists and the more this problem fulminates i wish they will take a legal decision and a certain ban or a certain rule to put limits to this..

lastly i believe one should be a guard upon himself and realise that what he does for abuse, will certainly be repaid to him one day but unfortuantely not many understand this and for that i believe there should be a limit and a legalisation

and god knows the best

be well

posted 26 March 2004 12:21 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by katrina:
What does it exactly mean? it is not quite clear. Coud you please explain this?

---

If you get married it should be automatically publised so that everyone knows about it. If it is secret i.e. only you and the officials know about it then you have a two tier marriage system again.

There should be only one kind of marriage and it should be announced to all and sundry.

posted 26 March 2004 12:44 PM            

I spoke about this with our local sheikh. He told me a secret ORFI marrage is haram.

posted 26 March 2004 01:10 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Penny:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by katrina:
[B]"And according to sharia law, it is legal.

I spoke about this with our local sheikh. He told me a secret ORFI marrage is haram.

[This message has been edited by Penny (edited 26 March 2004).]

---

Penny, it was not my quote.... It was Egy Doc's comment. THanks for the clarification as far as religion's opinion on it.

posted 26 March 2004 01:19 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by katrina:
Penny, it was not my quote.... It was Egy Doc's comment.

---

i will tell you katrina
look he write the rules for islamic wedding above and mashallah all are right..and so orfi does not continue all the rules

so it is haram

then he say legal system allow it. this is a real thing because the legal system is not only following islam teachings,
did you understand?

posted 26 March 2004 09:25 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by katrina:

I did not want to go back to Islam as a religion, but if under it, a man can have more than one wife, how does he do it, orfi way or legal way?

---

The qustion is phrased wrong since you have already established that Orfi=Legal.

So let's say it is Orfi vs. Regular

A man in egypt can have up to four wives in a through regular marriage(according to islam) or in a combination of Orfi and Regular(one Regular and one Orfi)

quote:

---

Originally posted by katrina:

And if legal system does not follow islamic teachings, it should not thus recognize a poligamy marriage

---

You're assuming facts not in evidence.

posted 26 March 2004 09:32 PM            

1- If Orfi marriage met all the requirement of an Islamic one, does that make it Islamic.

If it does, then wouldn't the Orfi wife be entitled to all the rights (alimony and such) as prescribed in Sharia'?( not necessarily by law)

2- Could an Egyptian legaly have more than four wives at the same time through Orfi or a combination of Orfi and Regular(Islamic)?

posted 27 March 2004 04:43 AM            

1- If Orfi marriage met all the requirement of an Islamic one, does that make it Islamic.

posted 30 March 2004 04:57 AM            

Can you believe it? What difference do Orfi Marriage and Virtue Marriage make than any other extramarital relationship �c nothing again just a paper.

It is just one of the hypercritic stuff of our region.

posted 30 March 2004 12:24 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Raymon:
Penny,
Are you aware of Virtue Marriage in Iran?
The gov't there wanted to fight prostitution or adultery �c so they came up with an idea. Let's legitimize them �c so instead of men going to brothels, they instead seek any of those registered offices where you can find widowed or divorced women. You get a legal marriage to her, have sex as you wish, and divorce her at the end.

Can you believe it? What difference do Orfi Marriage and Virtue Marriage make than any other extramarital relationship �c nothing again just a paper.

It is just one of the hypercritic stuff of our region.

---