posted 18 September 2005 06:37 PM            

Now this is kinda been on my mind for a while, and untill I started to read the fiction written by prominent Egyptians (mind you they are authors who are on unitarian death lists) and anthropological/sociological studies I didn't understand the huge gulf between the two practices.

NOw I love being naked. When I come home from work and its been a hot humid day (I close the shades), when up at the family lake property (no one else is around) and when I am cooking, naturally the Air Con doesn't keep up when I am making Kofta in the kitchen. :down

Yet somehow when making love I cannot get my mate to take it all off. This was some time ago. I am completely buff and really don't see what the problem is with him getting completely unclothed.

Now when we first got married he suggested that a sheet with a hole was to be used as a barrier, and I said we still need condoms in order to avoid pregnancy. :laughing He didn't understand it was a joke.

Now I have done enough reading and spoke about intimate issues like this with other North or East African Muslimahs who really were shocked that I would even ask. Basically what I got was clothes stay on. Well thats weird to me.

Is this normal? I looked in the Quran and the Hadiths, Islamic websites had some conversation on this which discussed fatwas. Mainly a western revert with his Middle-Eastern wife come to blows over this. Some Mullahs find Islamic juriprudance grounds for the practice but is this a codified practice within Egyptian culture?

posted 19 September 2005 12:45 AM            

Now when we first got married he suggested that a sheet with a hole was to be used as a barrier, and I said we still need condoms in order to avoid pregnancy. :laughing He didn't understand it was a joke.

............................................

Well, i am not going to blast u for being honest with ur ways or thinking since u said u did all things done is in private..

But, if ur married ur husband should take off all his clothing in those times, at least i never heard of a man keeping his clothes on..

and about the sheet with the hole thing- where did he get that idea to use it as a barrier???

I don't have an answer to that.. just never knew that- and i was married in the past..

Maybe- someone will post what is right and wrong..

posted 19 September 2005 12:54 AM            

Actually I would have understood the other way around, I mean u ask him to keep some of ur clothes on but the other way around, I know that men usually had troubles with women to get them naked in the oriental societies as I said b4 the woman have this background that she should pretend to b shy even in intimacy this will include not asking for sex, not going for teasing or seduction (unless the guy asked for it), pretending to hate oral sex and even to supress her moans during climax and in the intercourse.

posted 19 September 2005 05:37 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by sonomod:
Alright I know I am going to get alot of **** for this but I will put it out there anyway.

Now this is kinda been on my mind for a while, and untill I started to read the fiction written by prominent Egyptians (mind you they are authors who are on unitarian death lists) and anthropological/sociological studies I didn't understand the huge gulf between the two practices.

NOw I love being naked. When I come home from work and its been a hot humid day (I close the shades), when up at the family lake property (no one else is around) and when I am cooking, naturally the Air Con doesn't keep up when I am making Kofta in the kitchen. :down

Yet somehow when making love I cannot get my mate to take it all off. This was some time ago. I am completely buff and really don't see what the problem is with him getting completely unclothed.

Now when we first got married he suggested that a sheet with a hole was to be used as a barrier, and I said we still need condoms in order to avoid pregnancy. :laughing He didn't understand it was a joke.

Now I have done enough reading and spoke about intimate issues like this with other North or East African Muslimahs who really were shocked that I would even ask. Basically what I got was clothes stay on. Well thats weird to me.

Is this normal? I looked in the Quran and the Hadiths, Islamic websites had some conversation on this which discussed fatwas. Mainly a western revert with his Middle-Eastern wife come to blows over this. Some Mullahs find Islamic juriprudance grounds for the practice but is this a codified practice within Egyptian culture?

Tell you its a real turn off. What do you think?

---

posted 19 September 2005 06:24 AM            

I know other guys who leave their boxers or socks on during sex.... hm, not that personally OF COURSE!

posted 19 September 2005 07:52 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by sonomod:

NOw I love being naked. When I come home from work and its been a hot humid day (I close the shades), when up at the family lake property

---

Ahh, they're building trailer parks around lakes now, must be neat.

posted 19 September 2005 12:43 PM            

العيرين ‏تثنية عير وهو حمار الوحش*

posted 19 September 2005 01:20 PM            

What I remember the guy said was :
No anal sex. Everything else is allowed. (Oral, and all positions are fine as long as none of the partners feel humiliated though it's not "favorable". )
It's recommended to turn lights off and I dont know where he got this idea from.
The sheikh said in words, yr husband is there for you to please u in every possible way, he's ALL yours and you are all his. No shame, no boundaries except the ones mentioned directly in Quran!

Five years now, my sister and her husband are still having the time of their lives and no one ever sees them and thinks that they are married!!!! Mashaallah.

posted 19 September 2005 04:56 PM            

I think the women who cheat their husbands, this is one of so important reasons. She does not feel herself, she feels more than romantic, she need a gentle man touches her, like she never been or heard there is a couple did it before. She likes to feel that she is female in the way she does love, and feel. I believe in make love it does really make love and make it rich

posted 19 September 2005 05:22 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by sonomod:
Now when we first got married he suggested that a sheet with a hole was to be used as a barrier

---

posted 19 September 2005 09:05 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mohsen1000:
Sonomod: Have you talked with him before marriage about your habbits? If not then.. you have no one to blame but yourself.. there is nothing to do with culture or religion in your problem, it is mainly indvidual one ,,I personally know many women specially in UK who like to be covered with sheets when the have sex and the refuse to have it if they are uncovred.. which sound very strange speically for western soceity.. you have two options .. either to refuse to have sex with him .. which might be hard for you as well.. or ask him for divorce ,, may be threatining him would make him change his style..
Good luck
Mohsen

---

It never ceases to amaze me how much Egyptians want to keep the westerns in the dark about glaring differences in traditions and practices.

And how little westerners who live in Egypt don't see the real Egypt.

posted 19 September 2005 09:36 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by misfit:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by sonomod:
[b] Now when we first got married he suggested that a sheet with a hole was to be used as a barrier

---

[/B][/QUOTE]

No actually it was a recommendation from the Sheik who resided over our marriage contract.

And like Farhana said it did have something to do with angels looking down on humans.

I actually found a reference to it being a Hebrew practice that assimilated into Muslim practice.

posted 20 September 2005 12:09 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by sonomod:

No actually it was a recommendation from the Sheik who resided over our marriage contract.

And like Farhana said it did have something to do with angels looking down on humans.

I actually found a reference to it being a Hebrew practice that assimilated into Muslim practice.

---

angels looking down on people while they are making love? how sick, what kind of angels are they when they need to be taught some manners, those angels should only be looking to the other side instead of practicing voyeurism.

this is ABC, if some people do not get it then it's a real big problem in my opinion, those who really think angels are voyeurs are also sick.

it's not that i don't believe you sonomod, i know how so many silly things extended into islam from judaism, like for instance the notion that we egyptians are supposed to hate our ancestors, the pharoes, who bequeathed us all this glory which still provides us with bread and butter, to be good muslims for some we should despise those ancesters who should have been our biggest pride (only pride if you look for truth), and rever some hebrews who were never reported to exist in real history.
we are supposed to be happy that god the almighty, plagued the good old egyptians and saved the hebrews, and i don't know for what? so that their blood thirsty descendants would commit endless slaughters against some other poor phinicians who are actually muslims, it all doesn't add up!

and i don't understand how an educated person would go to some semi illiterate or socially and humanly ignorant (at best)sheikh to get informed about his/ her personal matters, not that it's not a common practice!

posted 20 September 2005 12:50 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by doudd:
‏قال رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏إذا أتى أحدكم أهله فليستتر ولا يتجرد تجرد العيرين

العيرين ‏تثنية عير وهو حمار الوحش*

---

That’s great, someone has solved the mystery and provided you and us with the solution for your problem sonomod.

The 7adeeth translates as: (so help me god since my English is not good enough for such holy mission)

“Whenever any of you is to have intercourse with his wife, let him cover up and not get bare like the two zebras” with the two zebras of course being a two of one zebra!
and someone will argue that this is a true 7adeeth and those are the alleged words of the prophet (PABBUH).

So it should be obvious to you now sonomod that your hubby is doing the right thing with his sheet (except for the needless hole of course), he’s only trying to be a good muslim, it’s you who is weird going around him naked in the bedroom, you should stop this perverted practice immediately or the angels (rather the goblins) will take your naked photos and publish them on the internet!

And it makes me wonder, is there an end to this path we’re treading? Shouldn’t we all just extinct?

I don’t know about you people, you can call me kafir as you wish but I’ll just have to do it my way, if I’ll go to hell for that then be it, at least I’ll go happy!

posted 20 September 2005 02:44 AM            

Honestly the things so called intelligent minds get hung up on.

posted 20 September 2005 02:51 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by sonomod:
.

And how little westerners who live in Egypt don't see the real Egypt.

---

Ok would you like us to start counting bed sheets on our friends beds and report back, would that keep you happy?.

posted 20 September 2005 06:07 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mohsen1000:
so do not blame culture or religion... blame your choice ,, sure if you leave him today .. that wyoul find many are happy to satisfy your desires and needs,, look around ..lol

---

posted 20 September 2005 07:10 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mohsen1000:
Penny:
I would think the middle sheet would be changed at each round .. well that means
One for the top + one for the bottom + one
*( number of rounds ) .. waw the number could be huge then depending on the health condition and the energy they have ..lol
By the way should the middle sheet be flavoured one or plain?

---

Why doesn't someone invent a 3-in-one sheet with a hole in it, patent it, and make a bundle off of the sales? Capitalism at its best.

posted 20 September 2005 09:10 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mohsen1000:
why you are talking as the problem was related to mulims only

---

it's not like i'm saying that problems are related to islam only, but let's look at the point in issue here:
the husband who has the problem is a muslim, the sheikh who gave the fatwa is a muslim, the 7adeeth which the fatwa is based on is a muslim, the prophet who is supposed to have said the 7adeeth is the prophet of islam, the people who told the mentioned 7adeeth right here and now are muslims, what else do you need to realise it's a muslim thing?

posted 20 September 2005 10:04 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Snoozin:
Why doesn't someone invent a 3-in-one sheet with a hole in it, patent it, and make a bundle off of the sales? Capitalism at its best.

---

LOL great idea... black silk in the middle and a choice of black fur or red feather binding for the hole...or whatever turns you on!!! just think of all the combinations you could make

posted 20 September 2005 10:21 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mohsen1000:
Misfit.. you are only confirming what I said .. not because the man is mulsim and the sheikhs are muslim it means that it is mulsims problems..

---

posted 20 September 2005 11:09 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by doudd:
‏قال رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏إذا أتى أحدكم أهله فليستتر ولا يتجرد تجرد العيرين

العيرين ‏تثنية عير وهو حمار الوحش*

[This message has been edited by doudd (edited 19 September 2005).]

---

This Hadith is from Ibn Maja's book and well known as weak!

Here is one from Bukhari and Muslim :

عن عائشة - رضي الله عنها - قالت: "كنت أغتسل أنا ورسول الله - صلى الله عليه وسلم - من إناء بيني وبينه واحد [تختلف أيدينا فيه] فيبادرني حتى أقول: دع لي، دع لي، قالت: وهما جنبان"ي"

This Hadith saheeh in Bukhari and Muslim, which according to Aisha ra, she and the prophet did abultion together...so obviusly they wouldn't do it with clothes on, did they?

"احفظْ عَوْرَتَكَ إِلاَّ مِنْ زَوْجَتِكَ أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ يَمِينُكَ" رواه أبو داود (4/40) والترمذي (5/110) وحسنه

And this Hadith is about covering your awras (this is the part from knee to under navel for men) EXCEPT to your wife

posted 20 September 2005 11:18 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by sonomod:

Now when we first got married he suggested that a sheet with a hole was to be used as a barrier,

---

You sure this guy is not scared of you?

posted 20 September 2005 11:32 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Troubles101:
just to make sure the thing that will cross from the hole is not a lolipop or cucumber or banana?

---

Thanks Troubles more ideas for the magic three sheet company!!

posted 20 September 2005 11:46 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Penny:
So that means then we need three sheets every night...one on the bottom, one in the middle, and one on the top.........

---

Flip the bottom sheet over and rest it on the top to create a very flat top . Frost on the sides and top. Cover and refrigerate until ready to serve. Nice cake!

posted 20 September 2005 12:15 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mohsen1000:
Misfit.. seems you do not follow yourself as well..
seems all what you are trying here to say isalm is reponsible for any stupied things..
as seems you do not follow any logic in thinking ..
you should be ,more rational and not because you hate islam or mulsims

hope this clear this time

---

i will try this last time with you to get my message across, i'm not saying NOW that islam is guilty in this case, i wish that this silly 7adeeth proves to be fake afterall! i'm saying that within islam, there is a great number of people who would look at 7adeeth such as this and consider going by it, like both the husband and the sheikh in question as well as some people here in this forum.
you maybe wise enough to understand it is silly and can't possibly be a true 7adeeth but the fact remains that there are so many other muslims who don't share your views.
however, there are also other 7adeeth which are equally silly but are said to be 100% authenticated like those which tell us that we should eat with our right hands because the devil eats with the left hand and the 7adeeth which advises us to completely dip the fly when it falls in our drinks and soups because it carries the disease on one of it's wings and the cure on the other! so what do we do about these? do we have to abide by them or just ignore like what is actually happening?
that's why i'm saying we need to purify the religion from those things that ruin its essence, if we really believe it has one and that this essence is far more important than the superficial crust.

now I hope that was clear!

posted 20 September 2005 12:18 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by misfit:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by mohsen1000:
[b]Misfit.. seems you do not follow yourself as well..
seems all what you are trying here to say isalm is reponsible for any stupied things..
as seems you do not follow any logic in thinking ..
you should be ,more rational and not because you hate islam or mulsims

hope this clear this time

---

i will try this last time with you to get my message across, i'm not saying NOW that islam is guilty in this case, i wish that this silly 7adeeths proves to be fake afterll! i'm saying that within islam, there is a great number of people who would look at 7adeeth such as this and consider going by it, like the husband and the sheikh in question as well as some people here in the forum.
you maybe wise enough to understand it is silly and can't possibly be a true 7adeeth but the fact remains that there are so many other muslims who don't share your views.
however, there are also other 7adeeth which are equally silly but are said to be 100% authenticated like those which tell us that we should eat with our right hands because the devil eats with the left hand and the 7adeeth which advises us to completely did the fly when it falls in our drinks and soups, so what do we do about these? do we have to abide by them or just ignore like what is actually happening?
that's why i'm saying we need to purify the religion from those things that ruin its essence, if we really believe it has one and that this essence is far more important than the superficial crust.

now I hope that was clear!

[/B][/QUOTE]

posted 20 September 2005 12:28 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by 7aya:
for the first time i agree with you!

---

i will wear your agreement as a crown on my head

posted 20 September 2005 01:00 PM            

The hadiths are no less authentic than the Quran, which is also full of errors and absurdities. Here is a study that shows that: http://www.derafsh-kaviyani.com/english/quran1.html

posted 20 September 2005 01:57 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mohsen1000:
but last point all these ahadeith you mentioned are not authnitcated.. they are called ISRAELIAT..a nd they were meant to make the ISALM look bad ,, and some people can accuse islam of being resposible of stupied ideas

---

Yes also the holocaust is a lie fabricated by the Jews. In fact everyone knows that Osama Bin Laden is a Jew working for CIA who is trying to give a bad name to Islam.
So you want to make us believe that the stories reported with so much detail by several historians, containing so many names and data were a total fabrication, that it never happened, that is was a lie concocted by Jews who were exterminated by Muslims but mysteriously reappeared and took control of the Ummah and started writing falsified history of Islam and secretly put those books into the shelves of the Muslims' libraries without anyone noticing the plot, to give a bad name to Islam and there was not a single Muslim coming forth saying hey, this is not what happened the real story is this? No wonder Muslims still believe in Jinns?
For example, the story of Bani Quraiza is recorded by all the Muslim historians. It is not the only disturbing story of crime of Muhammad. What happened to Bani Nadir, Bani Qainuqa, the Jews of Kheibar, the bani Mostaliq, the Hawazin and countless other tribes who became victims of Muhammad’s marauding gangs? They were slaughtered, enslaved, banished, looted and subdued. Is the entire history of Islam a fabrication? In that case what proof we have that Muhammad himself was not a fabrication? If the entire history of Islam is false, then what makes you believe that Muhammad ever existed? The whole thing could have been made up. Your first duty is to prove the very existence of Muhammad.

posted 20 September 2005 02:37 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by kafir4 ever:
Yes also the holocaust is a lie fabricated by the Jews. In fact everyone knows that Osama Bin Laden is a Jew working for CIA who is trying to give a bad name to Islam.
So you want to make us believe that the stories reported with so much detail by several historians, containing so many names and data were a total fabrication, that it never happened, that is was a lie concocted by Jews who were exterminated by Muslims but mysteriously reappeared and took control of the Ummah and started writing falsified history of Islam and secretly put those books into the shelves of the Muslims' libraries without anyone noticing the plot, to give a bad name to Islam and there was not a single Muslim coming forth saying hey, this is not what happened the real story is this? No wonder Muslims still believe in Jinns?
For example, the story of Bani Quraiza is recorded by all the Muslim historians. It is not the only disturbing story of crime of Muhammad. What happened to Bani Nadir, Bani Qainuqa, the Jews of Kheibar, the bani Mostaliq, the Hawazin and countless other tribes who became victims of Muhammad’s marauding gangs? They were slaughtered, enslaved, banished, looted and subdued. Is the entire history of Islam a fabrication? In that case what proof we have that Muhammad himself was not a fabrication? If the entire history of Islam is false, then what makes you believe that Muhammad ever existed? The whole thing could have been made up. Your first duty is to prove the very existence of Muhammad.

[This message has been edited by kafir4 ever (edited 20 September 2005).]

---

posted 20 September 2005 03:22 PM            

1- Treat the earth and all that dwell thereon with respect;
2- Remain close to the Great Spirit;
3- Show great respect for your fellow beings
4- Work together for the benefit of all mankind;
5- Give assistance and kindness wherever needed;
6- Do what you know to be right;
7- Look after the well being of the mind and body;
8- Dedicate a share of your efforts to the greater good;
9- Be truthful and honest at all the times; and
10- Take full responsibility for your actions

This is all commonsense. Are any of the teachings of Islam commonsense? Is the Islamic prayer commonsense? Is hajj commonsense? What about waging war for religion. What about the nonsense stories of Jinn, Miraj. What about the punishment of the adulterer and thief? None of these things are natural. You have to “lower your intellect” as Allha1 said and read the Quran in order to learn about them. Islam is not natural. It fake.

posted 20 September 2005 03:38 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by kafir4 ever:
Did you know that Islam is the most fake, racist, and unatural religion in the world?
Natural means one can naturally understand it. Like the teachings of the Native Americans. Even the religion of Native Americans makes more sense than Islam:

1- Treat the earth and all that dwell thereon with respect;
2- Remain close to the Great Spirit;
3- Show great respect for your fellow beings
4- Work together for the benefit of all mankind;
5- Give assistance and kindness wherever needed;
6- Do what you know to be right;
7- Look after the well being of the mind and body;
8- Dedicate a share of your efforts to the greater good;
9- Be truthful and honest at all the times; and
10- Take full responsibility for your actions

This is all commonsense. Are any of the teachings of Islam commonsense? Is the Islamic prayer commonsense? Is hajj commonsense? What about waging war for religion. What about the nonsense stories of Jinn, Miraj. What about the punishment of the adulterer and thief? None of these things are natural. You have to “lower your intellect” as Allha1 said and read the Quran in order to learn about them. Islam is not natural. It fake.

[This message has been edited by kafir4 ever (edited 20 September 2005).]

---

really and is christianity commonsense?

1.is confessing to a priest commonsense
2.is having priests and nuns abstain from sex their entire life commonsense
3.is kissing the priest's hand commonsense
4.is praying on water and calling it holy and believiong it will cure you commonsense?
5.is making sex a sin even after marriage commonsense?
6.is forbidding divorce commonsense?
7.is saying that god is a man who has children commonsense?
8.is having dozens of different bibles each one saying something different commonsense?
9.is having seperate churches for whites and blacks commonsense?
10. take full responsiblity for your actions

posted 20 September 2005 04:05 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by kafir4 ever:

1- Treat the earth and all that dwell thereon with respect;
2- Remain close to the Great Spirit;
3- Show great respect for your fellow beings
4- Work together for the benefit of all mankind;
5- Give assistance and kindness wherever needed;
6- Do what you know to be right;
7- Look after the well being of the mind and body;
8- Dedicate a share of your efforts to the greater good;
9- Be truthful and honest at all the times; and
10- Take full responsibility for your actions

---

Funny. This list is *exactly* how I view Islam.

posted 20 September 2005 04:07 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Corvinous:
I promise to be all naked "salbouta" if I had the woman I wish to have

Hein Sono, do you have someone for me then

---