posted 02 February 2003 03:52 PM            

your answer is in your question kimo..

stereotypes are based on ignorance, misinformation,lies, political agendas

Many ethnic groups have gone thru this kind of racist experience in US, not only Arabs--but 9/11 is an excuse to focus rage that can find no answer for americans feeling their safe space and safe life has been violated and changed forever...so its easy to hate and make jokes about raghead homos etc.

This kind of propaganda goes on even tho it has become clear that the Muslim/Arab (they are almost the same thing in the american mind) community is very diverse with many complexions and styles, head covers and not.

When the president of the US continues to equate terrorism with 'fanatical' Islam in the same breath, the american people will not bother to make the intellectual differences in ISlamic thought or practice---all they hear is ARab=Muslim=Terrorism=Enemy

posted 02 February 2003 04:44 PM            

quote:

---

3- Carfax has nicely brought it to my attention that Americans think Arabs are mostly homos because they are anti-woman (I think if we were homos we would be suffering much less sexual frustration, the average age of marriage is now above 30).

---

Mr Kimo, if you are going to quote me, atleast get it right. I never said Arabs are mostly homos, I said YOU were a homo because you kept referring to me as DEAR.. And also, when I was in the Middle East, I noticed that many men tended to be very touchy feely with each other but I think that had more to do with the culture.

Also, casual sex is frowned upon in the Middle East so the men there don't have the sexual outlets that Western men enjoy. I'm not saying this is the RULE, but I think most M.E men wouldn't consider casual sex as an option in their country because of how their Society is.

And its funny how you complain about Americans stereotyping Arabs but yet you stereotype black people.. How ironic wouldn't you say?

Carfax>> To travel in silence, by long and circuitous route, to brave the arrows of misfortune and fear neither noose nor fire, to play the greatest of all games and win, foregoing no expense, is to mock the vicissitudes of fate

posted 02 February 2003 05:43 PM            

The media is a big player in how Americans form their stereotypes. Hollywood is the next.

posted 02 February 2003 07:17 PM            

(Just admit you're a fag dude.. You like man booty LOL.. Oh well I guess I can't blame you.. Middle Eastern culture has always been anti-woman so I guess it got to you didn't it? So when did you decide you liked guys? ROLF)

2-The above is clearly a stereotype of all Arab males. And it is also a personal assault.

3-Your characterisation of male ME sexuality is really based more upon penthouse fanfic than observation. Are you sure you have been to the middle east? Which countries?

posted 03 February 2003 12:00 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
Carfax,
1-You said I stereotype black people. Where did I do that? I remember very well how I had a very nice conversation with Chu on the thread where we fought (I am assuming she is black). My favourite people in the world are Nubians and my idol is Nelson Mandella. Concerning African Americans I don't really know them, so I neither love nor hate them. The only experiences I had with African Americans till I met you were formal and pleasant. And can you please make up your mind Carfax are you black or are you Afro-Eurasian-American-Indian?

---

Here is your quote from a previous post:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kimo_the_Maniac:
He is way darker than me and everyone I know. His lips are rather thick. His skull is way too wide. His nose too flat (Egypt is a hook nose party). And his hair too curly. You are alluding, though, to the theory that race is an obsolete concept, in which case ethnicity and nationality are the paramount factors in identity, which means again you have no right in my country.

---

I think that about proves that you a stereotypical view of black people. There are black people in this world with straight noses and angular features and light skin and they aren't mixed. As I have said before, your ignorance is astounding; especially for someone who lives on the African continent.

And this is the LAST time I will tell you.. I am NOT an African American. I live in America but both my parents are from Jamaica. My father is mixed with Afro Carribean and Chinese and my mother is half East Indian and Scottish so my whole family is ethnically diverse. Also I don't know how you got American Indian out of our previous discussion because I said many times I have East Indian blood.

If you are going to call me African American, then I will not cease to call you an Arab even though technically, you're Egyptian and not Arabic because Arab is not an ethnic group.

quote:

---

2-The above is clearly a stereotype of all Arab males. And it is also a personal assault.

---

That wasn't directed at all Arab males. I pity your reading comprehension if that is the message you got. If had meant all Arab men, then I would have said so. I said that the anti-female Middle Eastern culture finally got to YOU which forced YOU to become attracted to men so how is that an indictment of all Arab men?

quote:

---

3-Your characterisation of male ME sexuality is really based more upon penthouse fanfic than observation. Are you sure you have been to the middle east? Which countries?

---

LOL so I guess my trips to Bahrain, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait would have no bearing on that observation? I also said that I thought it had more to do with the culture than actual homosexuality. I saw many men holding hands in Kuwait especially and I found that odd because only gay men do that sort of thing in the West. However, I attributed that to the specific culture rather than anything else.

Carfax>> To travel in silence, by long and circuitous route, to brave the arrows of misfortune and fear neither noose nor fire, to play the greatest of all games and win, foregoing no expense, is to mock the vicissitudes of fate

posted 03 February 2003 05:42 AM            

I was only replying to a question by Chu on why I consider you black. I didn't say all blacks are like that, I only said that most people who look like that are black! And again the afrocentrist mantra of "ignorant" is included in your statement! Of course the Khoiseans, and pygmies,etc.. don't fit the above description. If you said that you consider me Arab because I am tan, not too tall, with wavy dark hair and a pointy nose, I won't find that offending!

(And this is the LAST time I will tell you.. I am NOT an African American. I live in America but both my parents are from Jamaica. My father is mixed with Afro Carribean and Chinese and my mother is half East Indian and Scottish so my whole family is ethnically diverse. Also I don't know how you got American Indian out of our previous discussion because I said many times I have East Indian blood.)

Right Afro-Eurasian-west-east-Indian, got it!

(If you are going to call me African American, then I will not cease to call you an Arab even though technically, you're Egyptian and not Arabic because Arab is not an ethnic group.)

Well I am an Arab. Why do you still think that "Arab" is an insult and should offend me? An Arab is someone who speaks Arabic, I do, so I am Arabic!

(That wasn't directed at all Arab males. I pity your reading comprehension if that is the message you got. If had meant all Arab men, then I would have said so. I said that the anti-female Middle Eastern culture finally got to YOU which forced YOU to become attracted to men so how is that an indictment of all Arab men?)

Again that's a sterotype of middle eastern culture! Many subcultures in the Arab world are matriarchial. Excuse my comprehension skills switching between languages can sometimes be daunting.

(LOL so I guess my trips to Bahrain, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait would have no bearing on that observation? I also said that I thought it had more to do with the culture than actual homosexuality. I saw many men holding hands in Kuwait especially and I found that odd because only gay men do that sort of thing in the West. However, I attributed that to the specific culture rather than anything else.)

I hardly see men from Lebanon, Egypt or Syria holding hands! Stereotype once again.

posted 03 February 2003 09:59 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
Jennifer,
You are totally right, some people exaggerate and make up stories. A reliable source I use is CAIR, and also the Arab anti-discrimination league (Zoghby). Are Americans aware of how ridiculous their media is? I mean watching CNN international, BBC, TV5, sky news, Al-Jazeerah, and FOX, FOX stands out undesputably as plain dumb! Do people believe such right wing propaganda (it really is propaganda compared to Europe, and sadly even compared to many middle eastern channels)?

---

posted 03 February 2003 01:17 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
I was only replying to a question by Chu on why I consider you black. I didn't say all blacks are like that, I only said that most people who look like that are black! And again the afrocentrist mantra of "ignorant" is included in your statement! Of course the Khoiseans, and pygmies,etc.. don't fit the above description. If you said that you consider me Arab because I am tan, not too tall, with wavy dark hair and a pointy nose, I won't find that offending!

---

There are different kinds of black people but it seemed you made a general statement on my appearance and then correlating that with your perception of blacks; mainly West Africans. In truth, here in America where many people are mixed I get confused for a variety of different ethnic groups but especially Hawaiian or Pacific Islander. I didn't take your remark offensive at all but I just don't like being labeled under one group of people.

quote:

---

Right Afro-Eurasian-west-east-Indian, got it!

---

Now you got it!

quote:

---

Well I am an Arab. Why do you still think that "Arab" is an insult and should offend me? An Arab is someone who speaks Arabic, I do, so I am Arabic!

---

An Arab isn't someone who speaks Arabic.. An Arab is someone who is originally from the Arabian Peninsula. Many Middle Easterners speak Arabic today mainly because of the Arabian conquest. I dated a woman from Lebanon once and in a discussion, I called her people Arabic and she got PISSED!!.. She was right though because the ancestors of the Lebanese people are Phoenicians and not Arabs. Same thing with Persians and many Egyptians, they don't like being labeled as Arab because Egyptian and Persian culture developed separately from Arab and Islamic influence. Persians also speak their own language which is Farsi I believe but yet many Westerners call them Arabs simply because Iran is an Islamic state in today's world.

quote:

---

Again that's a sterotype of middle eastern culture! Many subcultures in the Arab world are matriarchial. Excuse my comprehension skills switching between languages can sometimes be daunting.

---

I'd like to know these matriarchal subcultures you speak of. I have never heard of any Middle Eastern culture being female oriented; but that doesn't mean I can't be wrong.

quote:

---

I hardly see men from Lebanon, Egypt or Syria holding hands! Stereotype once again.

---

Hence why I said in my original post that I attributed the closeness of Kuwaiti and Bahrainian men to their culture and not homosexuality; even though it may be hard to tell.

Carfax>> To travel in silence, by long and circuitous route, to brave the arrows of misfortune and fear neither noose nor fire, to play the greatest of all games and win, foregoing no expense, is to mock the vicissitudes of fate

posted 03 February 2003 05:17 PM            

( here in America where many people are mixed I get confused for a variety of different ethnic groups but especially Hawaiian or Pacific Islander. I didn't take your remark offensive at all but I just don't like being labeled under one group of people.)

I would never see you as pacific Islander, you're certainly no relic hunter (joking)!

(An Arab isn't someone who speaks Arabic.. An Arab is someone who is originally from the Arabian Peninsula. Many Middle Easterners speak Arabic today mainly because of the Arabian conquest. I dated a woman from Lebanon once and in a discussion, I called her people Arabic and she got PISSED!!.. She was right though because the ancestors of the Lebanese people are Phoenicians and not Arabs. Same thing with Persians and many Egyptians, they don't like being labeled as Arab because Egyptian and Persian culture developed separately from Arab and Islamic influence. Persians also speak their own language which is Farsi I believe but yet many Westerners call them Arabs simply because Iran is an Islamic state in today's world.)

Wow, I never thought someone can cram so many inaccuracies in one paragraph, let me see now:
1-Arab=someone who speaks Arabic as a mother tongue. Arabian=someone from the Arabian peninsula.
2-Arabic was not formed in the Arabian peninsula, the precursor to modern Arabic Nabataean developed in diglossia with Aramaic in the Levant extending mainly from Petra to Latakia.
3-Your Lebanese friend is inaccurate, Nabataea includes the whole Lebanon mountains and Beqa, Phoenecian was only spoken on the coast. Lebanon has always been central to the development of Arabic music and poetry.
4-Northern Arabic language (modern Arabic) slid down the west coast of Arabia where the first muslims caught it. The rest of Arabia was still speaking southern Arabic (the language of Sheba).
5-The Arab world was ruled from Arabia for less than 100 years. Then for the coming 1500 years the centre of the empire changed from Damascus, to Baghdad, Cairo, Rabat, Cordoba and what have ya. That's real Arabic civilisation, an explosion of science, tolerance and agriculture that even formed the Europe we know today by preserving Hindu and Greek philosophy.
6-I don't know why many westerners are surprised when Iranians deny they are Arabs! They aren't!! They speak Farsi a language more closely related to English than Arabic.
7-The horrid misconception that Arab = muslim and muslim = Arab shows again. Most muslims are not Arab and many Arabs are not muslims. Just to make sure you get it, nothing east of and including Iran is Arab, and yet most of it is muslim.
8-You make Islam sound like a generally bad influence, lets not get into religion or we won't ever come out!

posted 06 February 2003 01:03 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kimo_the_Maniac:
I would never see you as pacific Islander, you're certainly no relic hunter (joking)!

---

Well I don't get the Relic Hunter joke but its obvious you've never seen a native Hawaiian. I have friends who are Hawaiian and they tell me that I could easily pass for a native and I've also been to Hawaii and encountered the same thing. Native Hawaiians have dark tanned skin like me, have broad noses and curly or wavy hair.

Hawaii and Oceania is a far cry from Egypt Kimo

Your points about the Arabian people were quite good though. When I said I would not cease to call you an Arab, I meant that I would always think of you as an Arabian rather than an Egyptian. That is what I meant.

Also, you will probably still keep ignoring my requests for the Mythical Matriarchal Semitic culture that you brought up previously because there obviously is none unless I'm mistaken. Why don't you prove me wrong instead of talking smack?

And concerning Islam, I do think that it is the most intolerant religion on Earth and that it has had both negative and positive influences on the World.

posted 11 February 2003 04:13 PM            

The true arab are nomadic bedouins who lived across the so called middle east,not egyptains,Lebanese,berbers,and whoever else are not true arabs. These people might be arab by culture,but the truth is they are not true arabs.

I would sugest if you want the true history on arabs read a book by Phillip K hitti which goes into full detail about ARABS,oir maybe Benard Lewis,who claims by the way British oreintalist coined the pharase middle eastern.

by the way the bedouins who claim to be true bedouins are the hashemites.
Ancient egyptains called the bedouins who lived around the sinani vile sand dwellers. And even under the 12th dyansty amenhet III built the wall of the rulers to keep out what he deemed as the asiatic menace.

As early as the 5th dyansty Wemni,who was a upper egyptain general writes about raming the horns of the gazzele,which was in truth bedouin tribes who lived through out the sinai peninsula.

Arabs going back to babylonian and assyrian times were known as raiders who used to raid settlments,and sack towns and villages. Arabs historically have always been this way. But you know thier culture has a kind of mystique that many people become arabized and you can just ask oreintalist about that.

posted 11 February 2003 07:41 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kemet:
The true "Arabs" are the peoples that inhabited the deserts of Saudi Arabia prior to the birth of Muhammed. It is of interest to note that the "Arabs" were so few in the years preceding the birth of Muhhamed that they hired Etiopians to protect the city of Mecca.

---

posted 12 February 2003 05:57 PM            

Do you have a reference on this kemet I would like to reserch this more. PLease tell me more about these ethiopians.

posted 14 February 2003 03:53 PM            

I am in America for now and haved lived here most my life from birth. Although I am not full blooded Egyptian...(somehere aroung 40% untill I find out more of my family tree) and being well traveled, the country that I hear the most stereotyping is (sadley) here in the USA. My reckoning is that a lot of americans are narrow minded(not all) and need to live in the counrty for a few weeks to see how good most people are. Just as a personal statement, I have ceased to court or date american women. After 18 countries, my dating was most genuine in the middle east and Egypt... oh yea- Jennifer Lopez does not have sh*t on Full Blooded Egyptian Girls!!!

Try going to Qatar to see men holding hands... I sure did... but hey, different strokes for different folks.

posted 15 February 2003 05:41 PM            

The most significant influence on creating stereotypes is PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.

People have bad experience with 1 person, let's say Egyptian or American and they assign the characteristics and bad feelings to ALL Egyptians or Americans.

Now logically, it is impossible that all people are same, therefore stereotyping is biased perception of Egyptian or American population. If 1 member of that population is bad that does not mean that ALL people who belong to that population are bad.

Another factors are media, schools, family, friends...all social newtwork in general.

For instance if parents talk in front of their children how Egyptians are bad and Americans are evil, of course the children develop the negative feelings and learn from parents.

TV performs the function of educator as well. For the people and children who can not afford to study and attend the University they are limited to TV and other media sources for information.

Media can manipulate the impressions about certain people by priming, fragmentazing, dramatazing and so on.

For instance if Arabs today are represented in the movies as terrorists, people will develop in some extent the sterotype. Maybe they will not apply it in the real life but it can lead the people to stereotype.

In the same time, if Americans are represented as evil, the same thing will happen.

So I would say more you know someone who is not like you, more you get to know the people, less likely you will form the stereotypes on the population that he/she represents.

posted 15 February 2003 05:55 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
Since 9/11 I have become aware (mainly through the guestbook on my website) of some nice American slurs and stereotypes of Arabs particularly interesting are:
1- Raghead (most Arabs don't wear the headcover, its not traditional west of Palestine).

---

It doesn't matter. Ignorant people tend not to take into account regional differences. Heck, after 9/11 Sikhs were being attacked and they aren't even Arab.

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:

2- Sand ni%%er (why ni%%er, do you consider us black).

---

Well most white people I know don't consider Arabs white(except for maybe Syrian and Lebanese people). Considering where the Middle East is located, I think people who use the word associate Arabs more with Africa than Europe or Asia.

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:

3- Carfax has nicely brought it to my attention that Americans think Arabs are mostly homos because they are anti-woman (I think if we were homos we would be suffering much less sexual frustration, the average age of marriage is now above 30).

---

I don't know enough about homosexuality in the Arab world to comment on this.

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:

My real question is, how can someone form a stereotype about a people they don't know at all? Do Americans use Hollywood for example to form this stereotype?

---

I think Hollywood plays a major role since the only Arab good guy Americans have seen in the movies is Aladdin. Arabs should be protesting this kind of ethnic stereotyping. Tony Shaloub gets a lot of good guy roles but they are rarely ethnic type roles.

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:

Do you somehow confuse black muslims with Arabs or what?

---

Are you talking about the Nation of Islam or the black Muslims of America which is a Sunni Muslim organization? I don't think there is any confusion in America between black Muslims and Arabs.

posted 15 February 2003 09:03 PM            

I'm really sorry to burst your bubble. Obviously you've never lived in America. NO white European American thinks you are white. And if you look white, then you might be able to get away with it until they find out your Egyptian. You are very niave. No white American considers an arab or a north african to be white. You seem very ignorant to the point it seems your racist towards yourself. YOu seem to want to be white very badly. Caucasion doesn't equal white. And I'm very sorry but here in America you are not white and you will only receive white privilage if you can trick White Americans into believing you are white and from some European ancestry. Black Americans are able to get away with it,I guess you could to. Again, the US government racial classification system is flawed. Why else would a BLACK Egyptian who looks BLACK in features and skin color be called white under the American goverment's racial classification? Your obviously not proud to be a decendant of the Ancient Egyptians because you want to be white so bad. And I saw you other post about Sub-Sahara Africa being at the mercy of the french and the british. If you read a book and researched the history of Africa you would know that the french and british corrupted Africa's leaders , pit tribes against other tribes, uprooted thousands of years of government and put in there own and screwing up the relationships the people had with the government, whored the lands natural resources. Broke the people and then left them there on their own. I guess South Africans should thank the British for Aparteid? I guess Egypt should thank Europeans for robbing and desecrating tombs, blowing them up with dynomite, and selling and destroying thousand year old mummies(YOUR ANCESTORS) for profit?

I am beginning to doubt that you are really Egyptian.

posted 15 February 2003 09:17 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chu:
And I'm very sorry but here in America you are not white and you will only receive white privilage if you can trick White Americans into believing you are white and from some European ancestry.

---

posted 15 February 2003 09:38 PM            

I think America's institution of Racism is in its own category. It seems that without a common enemy, White Americans will become racist amongst themselves. Like how the Irish weren't considered to be white at one time. And even a Jewish American is not considered white anymore once someone finds out they are Jewish. They become Jewish, a race in its own. But to a black American or say a Latino America a Jewish person is also white but of the Jewish religion.

And the stereotyping that has come out of all this is baffling.

posted 16 February 2003 01:17 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chu:
Pelyas.

I'm really sorry to burst your bubble. Obviously you've never lived in America. NO white European American thinks you are white. And if you look white, then you might be able to get away with it until they find out your Egyptian. You are very niave. No white American considers an arab or a north african to be white. You seem very ignorant to the point it seems your racist towards yourself. YOu seem to want to be white very badly. Caucasion doesn't equal white. And I'm very sorry but here in America you are not white and you will only receive white privilage if you can trick White Americans into believing you are white and from some European ancestry. Black Americans are able to get away with it,I guess you could to. Again, the US government racial classification system is flawed. Why else would a BLACK Egyptian who looks BLACK in features and skin color be called white under the American goverment's racial classification? Your obviously not proud to be a decendant of the Ancient Egyptians because you want to be white so bad. And I saw you other post about Sub-Sahara Africa being at the mercy of the french and the british. If you read a book and researched the history of Africa you would know that the french and british corrupted Africa's leaders , pit tribes against other tribes, uprooted thousands of years of government and put in there own and screwing up the relationships the people had with the government, whored the lands natural resources. Broke the people and then left them there on their own. I guess South Africans should thank the British for Aparteid? I guess Egypt should thank Europeans for robbing and desecrating tombs, blowing them up with dynomite, and selling and destroying thousand year old mummies(YOUR ANCESTORS) for profit?

I am beginning to doubt that you are really Egyptian.

---

I am in America, and If im not white, than what am I. certainly not black or asian!!! i dont look remotely black or asian, i look white, so if it came down to black,white, or aisan (which it enivetably will) id be white. plus, i know im not anglo or nordic but neither are greeks or turks, and they're considered white. im a mediterranean caucasian, and as a caucaisan, i am white. plus, it wasnt the europeanes who destroyed temples and ancient egyptian stuff, it was a combination of idol-hating popes of the eastern churches and muslim invaders. y r u so intent on changing egyptians and convincing them that they are black when they are not, what u and ur buddies like truth_speaker are trying to do is to remove egyptian culture and replace it with a new and improved black culture. trying to take egypt from the egyptians is like denying greeks to the acropolis.

posted 16 February 2003 08:27 AM            

I don't know if it is intentional or not but for some Americans history starts in 1492 when Columbus "discoverd" America. The school curriculum is mostly European history so most Americans do not know about Muslim Spain, scientists, etc....

posted 16 February 2003 08:40 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by shumza:
The school curriculum is mostly European history so most Americans do not know about Muslim Spain, scientists, etc....
(edited 16 February 2003).]

---

Really? I don't want to sound anti-American, but when I lived in the States I was sometimes amazed at how little many Americans knew about Europe at all, let alone its history. I remember about twelve, fifteen years ago friends of mine were even asked if they had a fridge back home (and, believe me, this happened more than once.)

posted 16 February 2003 11:00 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dalia:
Really? I don't want to sound anti-American, but when I lived in the States I was sometimes amazed at how little many Americans knew about Europe at all, let alone its history. I remember about twelve, fifteen years ago friends of mine were even asked if they had a fridge back home (and, believe me, this happened more than once.)

Of course I'm dragging out the real bad examples here and I've met quite a number of Americans who knew more about European history and politics than myself, but my impression stays that there is some kind of overall ignorance.

---

Basically in American schools you are taught European American History. Anything else comes in little bits here and there. History has been censored in America and skewed. Americans know very very little about other countries but what they get from the TV. Thats why 9/11 was this international tragedy to us and the world is suppose to sympathize with us. This because Most Americans are ignorant and don't know that what happened 9/11 is nothing compared to the thousands and thousands of people that are dying for various reasons in other countries. We live in a protective bubble developed by the media and government manipulating our view of ourself and the rest of the world. And even when something comes on TV that might help us see outside of ourselves we'd rather watched mindless shows like Hot or Not than quality programing.

posted 16 February 2003 11:20 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by pelyas:
I am in America, and If im not white, than what am I.

-You are caucasion egyptian or Arab. Just like a Jew is seen as Jewish. As a black american i've seen the spectrum of racism from the ugliest to the subtle. Looking white doesn't qualify you as white here. As I said in another post. At one time Irish weren't condisered 'white' Jews still aren't and even Greeks and Italians weren't considered white at one point. You may get white privilage if you look white, but when a white american hears that you have arab or african (Egyptian) background their view of you changes whether you know about it or not. Especially after 9/11 this was the case for many. Even white american muslims were kicked out of being part of white america because they were muslim and somehow that no longer made them white! In America, who is White is a deep rooted issue because our institution of Racism is so illogical that it confuses the hell out of me and sometimes surprises me that people deep down still think that way.

certainly not black or asian!!! i dont look remotely black or asian, i look white, so if it came down to black,white, or aisan (which it enivetably will) id be white. plus, i know im not anglo or nordic but neither are greeks or turks, and they're considered white. im a mediterranean caucasian, and as a caucaisan, i am white. plus, it wasnt the europeanes who destroyed temples and ancient egyptian stuff, it was a combination of idol-hating popes of the eastern churches and muslim invaders.

-Europeans did it too. When they learned they could make money off Ancient Egyptian treasures and peoples. There was a book I read about it in Highschool. If I can remember the name I'll forward it to you.

y r u so intent on changing egyptians and convincing them that they are black when they are not, what u and ur buddies like truth_speaker are trying to do is to remove egyptian culture and replace it with a new and improved black culture.

-Why is Truth Sayer my buddy? When I obviously don't agree with him. Is it because I'm black also that automatically makes me in agreement with him? If you;ve read any of my post I've also concluded the Egyptians were a mixed society and still are to this day

trying to take egypt from the egyptians is like denying greeks to the acropolis.

-If Egypt belongs to Egyptians than it belongs to Egytpians. Just like America belongs to Americans. But look at who Americans are? Every different culture and ethnicity you could think of.

[This message has been edited by pelyas (edited 16 February 2003).]

---

posted 16 February 2003 11:37 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
By the way Ausar, Berbers don't speak Arabic they speak Tamazigh, which is not even a Semitic language. If you are still confused about the difference between Arab and Arabian read my previous posts because I am not fond of spamming. Also Arab does not equal bedwin, in Arabic language the word for bedwin (other than badawi of course) is e3raby, the word for Arab is 3arabi. The former are desert dwellers, the latter is an urban culture similar to that in which the prophet lived. Read my post on the development of Northern Arabic language if you are really interested in what Arabic culture is. "Mystique" and all that "romance in the desert" stuff is probably imprinted in your mind from watching such movies as Lawrence of Arabia. If you think Mystique is all Arabic culture offers, please explain to me why so many Arabic words have invaded English language in scientific and religious areas. Also try to explain Cordoba, the rise of Arab Jews under muslim tolerance, why did Jews leave Spain with muslims? Please also explain Saladin (chivarlry), Avicenna (medicine), Averroes (theology and philosophy), Ibn-Al-Haytham (Physics & astronomy), Ibn-Batutah (exploration), Ibn Khaldun (sociology), Moshe ben-Maimoon (sociology and Jewish theology, and yes we consider him an Arab), etc...
The amount of ignorance in the Western world about Arabic culture is simply stunning. Is this accidental or intentional I wonder.

-Kimo. All you have to do is look at the history of the American Educational system and who was in charge of the overall curriculum and you will see that it was very much intentional. I mean some of the things that were taught in public schools here in the past as science and fact were absurd. I'll try to find links about.

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posted 16 February 2003 12:12 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
Chu, I hope you can see this through all the spam. What exactly leads you to think that Egyptians are obsessed with being seen as white?

- I think Pelyas is only because he keeps harping on how he looks and what the American government says. We all know that doesn't mean anything. Again caucasion doesn't equal white and the government is the worse example to go by. Again an egyptian whoes skin color and physical features look 'black' also will be classified as white. So what does that tell you.

It doesn't mean anything to us, we are Arabs, and many of us are muslims, so we know exactly how we will be seen in the US.

-Exactly, thats why I don't understand why being white by American standards is so important to him.

Actually plain old "ni%%er" would be an upgrade to the treatment many of us would get in the states. Yet, we are not black, it is a simple fact Chu!! We are not European white either, live with it America the world is technicolour!

-Exactly! You are neither. But Pelyas needs to know that 'White' here means from European Ancestry and Even that doesn't always mean you are 'White'

I believe what most Egyptians are trying to tell you is that we see ourselves as distinct! Is that so hard to understand? We don't want to be seen as white, nor do we want to be seen as black.

-I agree!, but again Pelyas insist that he is white and everyone in America sees him as such. If you are proud of being deverse and distinct, why would you do that?

Actually to assume that someone's skin colour makes them share your sensibilities is plain simplistic, that's why I look at both Eurocentrists and Afrocentrists with skepticism.

-Again, I'm not an Afrocentric so I can't comment on that. I believe everyone attributed to the history of this planet and had their own important part.

Just a question about that sand ni%%er thing. Do you mean that anyone who is not pure cream white is labelled as a ni%%er in the states?

-The word is just a deragatory term for dark skinned peoples or peoples from black African ancestry. The term SandN&&ger is just lumping peoples of lighter skinned african and Middle eastern into the same category as black africans but making the distinction that they are lighter skinned and not from black Africa but still seen in the same light. The Irish were and are even called it today. Again, American racism is a brand all of its own. It is a demeaning and dehumanizing term

I mean is the n-word now symbolic not of blacks but of all non-whites?

-The history surrounding that word and the implications of it is too complicated to get into here. Numerous books have been written about it.
http://athensi.com/opinion.html?story_id=5336
http://www.athensnews.com/issue/article.php3?story_id=8322
http://feastofhateandfear.com/articles/from_aye.html
I will wade through the spam later looking for your response.

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posted 16 February 2003 03:35 PM            

Carfax>> To travel in silence, by long and circuitous route, to brave the arrows of misfortune and fear neither noose nor fire, to play the greatest of all games and win, foregoing no expense, is to mock the vicissitudes of fate

posted 16 February 2003 04:32 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by pelyas:
Chu- surprisingly, I basically agreed with ur response to my thread. however, i must tell you that being egyptian does not mean having an afrcian background, it is still an arab background. i live in maerica and let me tell you that all the white people i see consider me caucaisain (because im christian and i do look white,my skin is lighter than most asians, but u can still tell im arab)however, ia gree, arabs, egyptians, and moroccans cant be cliassified as pure white but rather as just mediterranean caucasian. i would also like to add that in middle school kids in america (at least in catholic schools) are taught world history.m including histiry, of egypt, sumer, greece, islam, asia, and sub-sahran africa.

---

When I entered the Catholic private school system in highschool my horizons were broaden a bit more. I actually learned about other religions and cultures (pertaining to religion) However it still had the undertone of those other religions and cultures being 'wrong' and that they were backwards.

posted 16 February 2003 04:49 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
I never said every black is afrocentrist and speaks ebonics I only said that you Carfax are afrocentrist and speak ebonics. For example I think Chu is a very nice person, probably one of the nicest, most informative people on the board.

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Kimo I beg to differ. My english is far superior to yours (yes I know english isn't your primary language), and most other Americans. I speak slang quite often but I can speak near perfect english if I want to. Am I an afro-centrist because I believe Ancient Egyptian culture and ethnicity were primarily African in their origins/practice? If that makes me an afro-centrist, I guess Frank Yurco, a leading Professor of Egyptology at the University of Chicago is also Afrocentric; even though he is white.

Actually, that would make the vast majority of modern day Egyptologists/Bio-Anthropologists Afrocentric going by your definition..

posted 16 February 2003 07:33 PM            

''By the way Ausar, Berbers don't speak Arabic they speak Tamazigh, which is not even a Semitic language.''

I know this since I am half tuareg myself,and actually what i meant to say is that berbers or amazingh are arabized.

''If you are still confused about the difference between Arab and Arabian read my previous posts because I am not fond of spamming. Also Arab does not equal bedwin, in Arabic language the word for bedwin (other than badawi of course) is e3raby, the word for Arab is 3arabi. The former are desert dwellers, the latter is an urban culture similar to that in which the prophet lived. Read my post on the development of Northern Arabic language if you are really interested in what Arabic culture is''

Sorry but it is a fact that arabs are nomadic bedouins,and of course some lived in urbanized settings. If you consider makkah was once just a cmel stop. Arabs were notrious thieves much like my people the tuareg. I donot consider people who speak arabic and have been arabized arabs.

''development of Northern Arabic language if you are really interested in what Arabic culture is. "Mystique" and all that "romance in the desert" stuff is probably imprinted in your mind from watching such movies as Lawrence of Arabia''

No,actually I got my information from Philip K hitti,and Benard Lewis,who write about arabs and their culture. Maybe these are biased sources. I have never seen Lawrence opf Arabia.

''''all Arabic culture offers, please explain to me why so many Arabic words have invaded English language in scientific and religious areas. Also try to explain Cordoba''

Well,because Northern europeans were barbarians,and when the moors,which was a confedration of many different people invaded Spain they reintroduced greek science culture and it flourised.

Yes,I am aware that many words in english from admiral,to zenith to zeroa.

''the rise of Arab Jews under muslim tolerance''

Well forget the fact that Yusef Ibn Tashfin who defeated El Cid,ran the jews out and even put christain heads in jars and displayed them in the window. Yeah,that's tolerance.

''explain Saladin (chivarlry''

Chivarly actually came way before Saldin in pre islamic times with the arabian legend of anatar,which I am sure you have read about.

Saladin was not even an arab he was a Kurd,which syrian president assad which is a key member of the baath party thinks he is a reincarnation of,and sadam loves saladin but cases the kurds.

'' Avicenna (medicine), Averroes (theology and philosophy)''

These people actually flourished under almohad ruled,ever heard of Yacub Al mansur ??
NO arabs ruled Al andulas during this time when they floruished. Ibn Sinia was a persians,not an arab,which he even had a vacine for measles and small pox pretty impressive.

http://www.ummah.org.uk/history/scholars/ibn_sina/

I supose Galen was a arab to ?? Since most arabic trnaslations were based on galens.

'' Ibn-Al-Haytham (Physics & astronomy), ''

Oh yes whgoi could forget al hazen. I agree this seems to be the only contribution that arabs made really to science,but even al hazen observations was based heavily on caludius Ptolomey optics,and other texts.

He actually did write some impressive things about reflection and refraction that I must admit did have alot of influence on people like Roger Bacon,and other great western minds.

'' Ibn-Batutah (exploration), ''

Yes,a Moroccan berber,once again not an arab,but I supose he counts as an arab because he spoke arabic.

''Ibn Khaldun (sociology),''

Yes,a Yemani arab who wrote about sociology. Arnold Toynabee admired Ibn Khaldun and I tend to agree with some of his observations he made. Some of his views were quite wrong.
Ibn KHladun is rightly a indpdent arab achievement,but there is no doubt that earlier greek writters probally influenced him.

''Moshe ben-Maimoon (sociology and Jewish theology, and yes we consider him an Arab),''

Of course you would,and did you know he also called out islam for what it was worth. he idenitfied paganistic elements in islam way before salam rusdie,or maybe I should not say that name since in egypt they have a fattawah against him. Gasp

''The amount of ignorance in the Western world about Arabic culture is simply stunning. Is this accidental or intentional I wonder''

Miox greek science,Persian architecture,and water systems,borrowed folklore such as arabic nights from everybody including the ancient egyptains,and translated texts form people like the hindus who werre treated like dirt under the mughals and wallah you have arabic culture.

I know about the abbasaid caliphte having the first hospital and medical facilities.

I know that damcus steel is really steel from hindus and the gupta period. I know about the translated sanskrit texts into arabic around bagdad at the house of wisdom.

Taxitila is one of the oldest univeristies of the world located in pakistan,and also Nalanda was a buddahist university then of course the mughals came.

Even arabic instruments like the al oud is borrowed form other people,and you cna clearly see the prototype for the al oud,which I play is form tomb scenes in waset or thebes in ancient egypt.

BY the way have you heard of al jahiz and zaryab. Zaryab wrote the scales to which music is used in most northern african countries all the way to syria.

posted 17 February 2003 10:00 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by TimLuttrell:
back to the original question.Being born and for the majority of the time I have lived ( and currently do) in the USA. Seeing Americans from an outside view, it must be ignorance.(not stupidity)-(I mean uneducated)Having to live in countries for a month or more can really expose you to vast differences in culture.(not as a vacation, but to work among the natives) and some Americans just think they are better than everyone else, I hear it ALL the time. It is a full time job in itself correcting everyone and educating them all the time....you should see their faces when I mention I am about half Egyptian and Plan to marry an Egyptian girl of as close to full bood as I can... ( I get outcasted a lot saying its un american or american girls are the best. hahaha, I laugh at that one...) thats on reason I am seriously considering Egypt soon as "Home". Thank you for letting me reply p.s. great topics Kimo- keep it up

[This message has been edited by TimLuttrell (edited 16 February 2003).]

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People in American choose to be ignorant. Thats the problem. I watched a 2 hour TV show on Sierra Leon (sp?) And the havoc the diamond industry has recked on that country. People murdered, babies with their arms or legs hacked off. Extreme poverty and destitution. I go tell me fellow black American that all that Bling Bling and Ice(slang here for Diamonds and over all materialism)could be traced back to murder of african peoples and I'm told "Thats not problem, I don't care, I still have to look good."

posted 23 February 2003 09:50 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
Since 9/11 I have become aware (mainly through the guestbook on my website) of some nice American slurs and stereotypes of Arabs particularly interesting are:
1- Raghead (most Arabs don't wear the headcover, its not traditional west of Palestine).
2- Sand ni%%er (why ni%%er, do you consider us black).
3- Carfax has nicely brought it to my attention that Americans think Arabs are mostly homos because they are anti-woman (I think if we were homos we would be suffering much less sexual frustration, the average age of marriage is now above 30).

I know that Americans were really angry after 9/11. I know that some people are particularly more stupid than others. And I know that America has its own share of the poor and the ignorant.
My real question is, how can someone form a stereotype about a people they don't know at all? Do Americans use Hollywood for example to form this stereotype? Do you somehow confuse black muslims with Arabs or what? Europeans tend to make more sense in their racial slurs (if that's not an oxymoron), maybe that's because of the huge Arab minority.

---

It's quite funny that if American's really do have this stereotype of "Arab"-Americans as Muslim women in veils men in beards etc is ridiculous because most "Arabs" in America are not even Muslim.

If there is a stereotype about Arabs being poor & uneducated then again it is ridiculous.

82.4% of "ARAB" Americans are high-school graduates.

36.3% have a Bachelor's degree &

15.2% have a graduate degree or higher.

The census does have a seperate figure for Egyptian American's who achieve better then "Arabs"

High school graduate or highe 91.6%
Bachelor's degree or higher 60.4%
Graduate degree or higher 25.6%

Those figures are a lot higher then the American average.

High school graduate or higher 75.2
Bachelor's degree or higher 20.3%
Graduate degree or higher 7.2%

There are also many influential people with arab ancestory

I found this on the AAI site

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are about 3 million Arab-Americans, and as a community, we've been demonstrating loyalty, inventiveness, and courage on behalf of the United States for over 100 years. Here are just a few of the famous and accomplished ones -- people you may know!
Military Service
You talk about courage ... How about America’s and the world’s first jet ace? He was the Korean War hero, U.S. Air Force Col. James Jabara. In World War II, Army officers like Maj. Gen. Fred Safay fought alongside Gen. Patton, and Brig. Gen. Elias Stevens served on Gen. Eisenhower’s staff.

And in 1944, one of our Navy’s ships, the destroyer escort USS Naifeh, was named in honor of an Arab American hero, Navy Lt. Alfred Naifeh of Oklahoma. More recently, West Point graduate and retired four-star Gen. George Joulwan was the NATO Supreme Allied Commander of Europe, where he commanded both European and U.S. troops. Brig. Gen. William J. Jabour is the Director of the Air Force Program Executive Office for Fighter and Bomber programs in charge of the F-22 System Program Office (SPO).

Political
Some of us work in our nation’s capital, like veteran Congressmen Nick Joe Rahall II (West Virginia), Ray LaHood (Illinois), John Baldacci (Maine), John E. Sununu (New Hampshire), Chris John (Louisiana), and Darrell Issa (California).

There are two Arab Americans in President George W. Bush’s Cabinet: U.S. Secretary of Energy Spencer Abraham and Director of the Office of Management and Budget Mitchell Daniels. The first Arab American ever appointed to a Cabinet secretary post was Donna Shalala, the nation’s longest serving Secretary of Health and Human Services, and now president of the University of Miami. Former Governor of New Hampshire John H. Sununu became the White House Chief of Staff under Pres. George Bush Sr., and later a political commentator on CNN.

America’s longest-serving White House Chief of Protocol, serving seven and a half years under President Reagan, was Ambassador Selwa Roosevelt. Thomas A. Nassif and Edward Gabriel also served as U.S. Ambassador to Morocco. Our Ambassador to Syria is Theodore Kattouf, and Marcelle Wahba is Ambassador to the United Arab Emirates.

The late ambassador Philip C. Habib served as Special Presidential Envoy to the Middle East and was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Feisty Helen Thomas, who served for 57 years as a correspondent for United Press International and was dean of the White House press corps, is a Hearst newspaper syndicated columnist. In a class by himself, the late, warm-hearted Robert George portrayed Santa Claus year-round for nearly 50 years and was a Presidential Santa at the White House through seven administrations.

Others who have served in high elected office are: former U.S. Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell, who brokered a peace deal in Northern Ireland and led a peace commission to the Middle East; former U.S. Senators James Abourezk and James Abdnor, both of South Dakota; and former Congressional members Pat Danner of Missouri, Mary Rose Oakar of Ohio, the late George Kasem of California, who was the first Arab American elected to the U.S. Congress, Abraham Kazen, Jr. of Texas, and Toby Moffett of Connecticut. Victor Atiyeh was the popular governor of Oregon.

Arab-Americans are grocers and governors, physicians and farmers, Indy 500 champs and taxicab drivers, financiers and factory workers, bakers and bankers, salesmen and senators, TV stars and TV repairmen, teachers and preachers, Heisman Trophy-winning quarterbacks and neighborhood sandlot heroes. Name it, and an Arab American has probably done it.

Sports
San Diego Chargers quarterback Doug Flutie, who threw the “miracle touchdown” pass for Boston College, won the Heisman Trophy in 1984. He previously played with the Buffalo Bills and was a superstar in the Canadian Football League. There’s also NFL player Jeff George, who quarterbacked several NFL teams, and former NFL coach Rich Kotite. Don’t forget former Chicago Bears linebacker and NFL Hall of Famer Bill George, or former Cleveland Brown Abe Gibran. Another NFL player is Drew Haddad of the Indianapolis Colts. The former owner of the Miami Dolphins was Joe Robbie.

In basketball, there’s former NBA center Rony Seikaly. UCLA’s fiery coach Jim Harrick took his team to the NCAA playoffs eight years in a row, winning the national championship in 1995; he’s now coaching at the University of Georgia. The late George Maloof, Sr. owned the NBA’s Houston Rockets; today his sons, Joe and Gavin Maloof, own the Sacramento Kings.

Major League baseball player Joe Lahoud played with the Boston Red Sox and Sam Khalifa played for the Pittsburgh Pirates. And Fred Saigh once owned baseball’s St. Louis Cardinals.

In auto racing, Bobby Rahal won the Indy 500 in 1986, later becoming the alltime earnings champ among Indy car racers. The founder of the Professional Bowlers Association was the late Eddie Elias. In the ring, Petey Sarron won the world featherweight championship in 1936-1937. Zuhair “Steve” Mansour was weightlifting’s Grandmaster of the World in 1990. And a four-time U.S. National Chess Champion and Grandmaster is Seattle’s Yasser Seirawan. Women’s International Chess Master Jennifer Shahade won the 2002 U.S. Women’s Chess Championship. The late Dr. Elias Ghanem, former chairman of the Nevada Athletic Commission and Las Vegas’own physician to the stars, once treated celebrities like Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson, Johnny Cash, Kenny Rogers, and Paul Anka. In track and field, the world record holder for the marathon is Arab American Khalid Khannouchi.

Activists
Among America’s activists, can you think of two people who have saved more lives than America’s foremost consumer advocate and Green party presidential candidate Ralph Nader and the founder of MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) Candy Lightner. MADD is the largest crime victims’ assistance organization in the world, with more than 3 million members and supporters.

Back in 1960, Ralph Johns, an active participant in the civil rights movement, encouraged the famous Woolworth “sit-in” at a lunch counter in Greensboro, North Carolina. And today Dr. Rabih Aridi works to promote human rights as treasurer and board member of Amnesty International USA.

Business
The founder of an international, billion-dollar engineering firm, Jacobs Engineering Group, is Dr. Joseph Jacobs. A former chemist with dozens of patents became Armand Hammer’s successor as chairman of the board, president, and chief executive officer of Occidental Petroleum — Dr. Ray Irani.

Najeeb Halaby, former head of the Federal Aviation Administration, was CEO of Pan-American Airlines. His daughter, Lisa, married King Hussein of Jordan and became the only Arab American to be queen of a foreign country, Queen Noor.

Jacques Nasser was formerly the president and CEO of Ford Motor Company. The chairman of the board of the Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company is Samir G. Gibara. The late Stephen Yokich served five terms as vice president of the International United Auto Workers union, then became its president. Ned Mansour was formerly the president of Mattel, Inc., maker of Barbie dolls and other toys.

John Mack is the CEO of Credit Suisse First Boston and was formerly the president of Morgan Stanley Dean Witter, one of America’s largest investment banking firms. Dr. Raymond Jallow is an internationally respected economic advisor to governments and institutions, lecturing in financial capitals around the world. Youssef A. Nasr is the president and CEO of HSBC USA, a leading financial services organization and the third largest depository institution. William Hanna is the founding president and CEO of Cedars Bank, a wholly Arab American owned commercial bank headquartered in Los Angeles. The chairman of the board and CEO of Fresh Del Monte Produce, Inc. is Mohammed Abu-Ghazaleh.

Farouk Shamie is the CEO and founder of Farouk Systems USA, a premier hair and skin care company that introduced environmentally safe products for hairdressers. Lebanese-American Richard E. Rainwater built his reputation managing investments for Texas’ wealthy Bass family and earned millions for himself as a result. He recently set up a $120 million trust for Stanford and the University of South Carolina.

George Shaheen is credited with founding Andersen Consulting, now called Accenture, and served as CEO and managing partner as part of a 30-year career at the world’s biggest consulting firm. Roger Farah is president and chief operating officer of Polo Ralph Lauren and previously served as chairman of the board of Venator Group, Inc., the parent company of Footlocker. The “new economy” has its share of Arab American heroes as well: Simon Assad is the co-CEO of Heavy.com, a music site that was nominated for a Webby, the Internet’s highest honor. One of America’s preeminent pollsters, keeping tabs on public opinion and other statistics, is John Zogby of Zogby International.

Paul Orfalea founded the world’s biggest international chain of copying service stores, Kinko’s; while Waleed and Malik Ali founded MPI, the world’s largest home-video distributor of documentaries. Entrepreneur Tony Ismail founded the Alamo Flag Company in Dallas and built it into the largest retailer of flags and related items in the U.S. today.

Law
The Texas lawyer who won the biggest business settlement in U.S. history, on behalf of Pennzoil ($10 billion dollars!), is one of this country’s most successful attorneys, Joseph D. Jamail. In the famous “zoot suit” trial of the 1940s, George Shibley defended unjustly accused Mexican-Americans in Los Angeles. In the late 1990s, Edward Masry and Erin Brockovich filed a direct action lawsuit against Pacific Gas and Electric for polluting the drinking water of Hinkley, CA. Their efforts secured the largest toxic tort injury settlement in U.S. history, $333 million in damages, and was chronicled in the blockbuster film starring Julia Roberts and Albert Finney.

Entertainment
Canadian-born singer-songwriter Paul Anka became one of America’s first pop teen idols. The late ukelele-plucking, falsetto-singing Herbert Khaury became famous as “Tiny Tim.” And in the world of rock, there was the late, legendary Frank Zappa. On the West Coast, Dick Dale is the “King of the Surf Guitar.” Singer-dancer-choreographer Paula Abdul has had two number-one albums, six number-one singles, a Grammy award, and worldwide album sales exceeding 30 million records. And the first teenage singer ever to have her first two singles both hit number one is Tiffany, born Renee Darwish. Pop star Shakira, of Colombian and Lebanese descent, has scored on the U.S. charts and is a multiple Grammy winner.

Speaking of music, two of America’s landmark music shows on radio were created by two Arab Americans, Don Bustany and me — “American Top 40” and “American Country Countdown.” Diane Rehm is host and executive producer of “The Diane Rehm Show” on National Public Radio (NPR). The man who pioneered the concept of a radio programming consultant in 1958 is Mike Joseph, who’s helped organizations like ABC, CBS, and NBC, among others. On Broadway, playwright Fred Saidy wrote two classics, “Finian’s Rainbow” and “Bloomer Girl.” Opera prima donna Rosalind Elias hit the high notes at the Met. And for avant-garde “Dancer of the Year” in 1992, the New York Times picked a 20-year Broadway veteran with the Paul Taylor Company — Elie Chaib. David Yazbek wrote the lyrics and score for “The Full Monty.”

Turning to television, Lucie Salhany became the first woman to head a television network, as chair of Fox Broadcasting Co., then of United Paramount Network. Among TV directors, two Arab Americans have each helmed over 300 episodes for the networks. Asaad Kelada has done numerous series like “Family Ties” and episodes of “The Facts of Life,” “Who’s the Boss?,”“WKRP in Cincinnati,” etc. After directing Broadway hits like “Sweet Charity,” “Mame,” and “The Unsinkable Molly Brown,” John Bowab switched to TV and has directed episodes of “Soap,” “Benson,” “Bosom Buddies,” “The Facts of Life,” and “ The Cosby Show.”

Did you know...
that the highest-rated episode in television history was the last episode of “M*A*S*H”? And who played the role of not-so-crazy Corporal Klinger for its entire 11-year run? A talented Arab American from Toledo, Ohio, Jamie Farr.

On NBC, “Saturday Night Live’s” bandleader for many years was guitarist G.E. Smith. (His family’s Lebanese name, Haddad, means blacksmith).

The best-known Lebanese in America was also the founder of St. Jude’s Children’s Research Hospital — the late, great comedian and actor Danny Thomas. His son is a television and film producer and multi-Emmy winner for “The Golden Girls” and other TV shows — Tony Thomas.

Danny’s daughter, Emmy Award-winning Marlo Thomas, was the first actress ever to play a single, independent young woman in the TV series, “That Girl.” She currently appears on TV’s “Friends” as Rachel’s mother and published a book, “The Right Words at the Right Time.” Wendie Malick plays Nina Van Horn on NBC’s hit show “Just Shoot Me.”

The leading man who starred in the movies “Flashdance” and “Finding Forrester” was Michael Nouri, who also starred in TV’s “Love and War” sitcom. Tony Shalhoub, now starring in USA Network’s series “Monk,” and Amy Yasbeck appeared in the hit sitcom “Wings” — the first time two Arab Americans have been featured in the same TV series. Amy has also starred in films including Mel Brooks’ “Robin Hood: Men in Tights.” Tony has moved to the big screen as well, in both “Men in Black ” films,“The Siege,” “A Civil Action,” and “Thirteen Ghosts” (with fellow Arab Americans F. Murray Abraham and Shannon Elizabeth).

Crusty but soft-hearted Mel in TV’s “Alice” was portrayed by the late Vic Tayback. One of the co-stars of the series “Empty Nest” was Kristy McNichol. A star of TV’s “Head of the Class” was once picked by People Magazine as one of the “50 most beautiful people in the U.S.” — Khrystyne Haje.

Other Arab American television actors include Yasmine Bleeth, who starred in “Baywatch” and “Nash Bridges,” and Tige Andrews, who spent years with the “Mod Squad.”

Two other fine movie and television actors who also starred in popular TV dramas are James Stacy, who played the main role in “Laramie,” and Michael Ansara, who played Cochise in “Broken Arrow.”

An award-winning comic actress from San Diego, Kathy Najimy, played a funloving nun in the “Sister Act” films. She co-starred as Olive, a Lebanese- American, in NBC-TV’s “Veronica’s Closet” with Kirstie Alley. Kathy is the voice of Peggy Hill on Fox-TV’s animated hit “King of the Hill.” Lovely Salma Hayek, who is of Lebanese and Mexican descent, is another actress who has lit up the small screen (in cable TV’s movie “The Hunchback,” as the gypsy Esmeralda) and the big screen (Oscar-winning “Traffic,” “Desperado,” “Wild Wild West,” and “Frida,” about Mexican artist Frida Kahlo). Shannon Elizabeth of “American Pie,” “Scary Movie,” and “Tomcats” is of Lebanese and Syrian ancestry.

The former head of Carolco Pictures, handling the “Rocky,” “Rambo,” and “Terminator” films, was “billion-dollar producer” Mario Kassar. The producer of the epic “The Message: The Story of Islam” (a biography of the Prophet Mohammed) and “Lion of the Desert,”not to mention all the blockbuster “Halloween” chillers, is Moustapha Akkad.

The director of Jim Carrey’s loony comedy hits “Ace Ventura: Pet Detective” and “Liar, Liar,” Eddie Murphy’s “The Nutty Professor,” and Robin Williams’ “Patch Adams” is Tom Shadyac. Together, these films have grossed more than $1 billion worldwide.

The Pulitzer Prize for biography (“Jackson Pollack: An American Saga”) was shared by the author of three other national bestsellers: writer-publisher Steven Naifeh of South Carolina. The book was later adapted into an Academy Award-winning film (best supporting actress).

Elie Samaha is chairman and owner of Franchise Pictures, which produced such films as “The Heist,” “Angel Eyes,” “The Whole Nine Yards,” and “Battlefield Earth.” Academy Award-winning film producer Ronald Schwary is best known for his work with “Tootsie,” “Meet Joe Black,” and “Scent of a Woman.” Jehane Noujaim co-directed and co-produced “Startup.com.”

One of show business’ legendary talent managers was the late George “Bullets” Durgom, who, through the years, managed Jackie Gleason, Sammy Davis, Jr., and Marilyn Monroe, to mention a few. Two of today’s top recording stars’ husband-managers are of Arab descent: Rene Angelil, discoverer and manager of wife Celine Dion, and Cuban-born Emilio Estefan, manager and producer of wife Gloria Estefan.

Emmy Award-winning cinematographer-director George S. Dibie is president of the International Photographers Guild. Fouad Said was the cinematographer who designed Cinemobile, the first customized van for filming on location, while working on the TV series “I Spy.” For this achievement, he received a Technical Academy Award in 1970.

Other Arab American Oscar winners include F. Murray Abraham, who won Best Actor for the movie “Amadeus.” Screenwriter and novelist William Peter Blatty won an Academy Award for Best Adapted Screenplay for “The Exorcist,” a huge box office hit based on his novel of the same name. Recipient of an Oscar for Best Original Screenplay for “Thelma and Louise” and director of the “Divine Secrets of the Ya-Ya Sisterhood” is Callie Khoury. The late composer Paul Jabara won an Oscar award for Best Song, Donna Summer’s ”Last Dance” from the movie “Thank God, It’s Friday.” Set decorator Emile Kuri won two Oscars for his splendid work on “The Heiress” and “20,000 Leagues Under the Sea.” He received a total of eight Academy Award nominations and later designed many exhibits at Disneyland.

Education
Columbia professor Edward Said is a well-known literary and social critic, as well as a respected music reviewer, whose column appears in “The Nation.” Professor Said has authored more than a dozen volumes on everything from the Middle East to English literature. Jack Shaheen, emeritus professor of mass communications at Southern Illinois University and author of books like “The TV Arab” and “Reel Bad Arabs: How Hollywood Vilifies a People,” has also been CBS News’ consultant for the Middle East. David Adamany was the longest-serving president of Wayne State University in Detroit.

For an inspiring success story, try that of writer-lecturer on business and success, Nido Qubein. When he came to the United States as a teenager, he could barely speak English. He went on to become president of the National Speakers’ Association and the youngest member inducted into the International Speakers’ Hall of Fame.

Fashion
The prestigious CFDA Menswear Designer of the Year Award for 1989 and 1990 went to Arab American Joseph Abboud of New York. He’s the only designer to win the award two years in a row.

Supermodel Yamila Diaz-Rahi, who is of Lebanese and Spanish descent, landed the coveted Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue cover in 2002. She has also graced the covers of “Marie Claire,” “Elle,” “GQ,” and “Shape.”

One of America’s most sought-after hairstylists, Frederic Fekkai, boasts clients such as Claudia Schiffer, Kim Basinger, and Renee Zellweger.

Lebanese immigrant J.M. Haggar started Haggar Clothing Co. in 1926. It became one of the world’s best-known brands in men’s apparel. The company is now a multi-million dollar enterprise that is headed by J.M. Haggar III, who serves as chairman and CEO. In addition, Farah Brothers manufactures men’s and women’s slacks, and Maloof Brothers manufactured Mod-O-Day women’s dresses. Norma Kamali, who designs everything from clothing and cosmetics to eyeglasses, is of Arab ancestry. Reem Acra is one of the world’s preeminent designers of bridal fashions and is known for her elaborate embroideries. Hair accessories and jewelry designer Colette Malouf began her rise to the top in 1987 with the “Malouf Poof.” She is known for her innovative use of exotic materials and her celebrity clientele.

Art
Arab Americans also have made significant contributions to the art world. America’s most honored woodworker, Sam Maloof is an award-winning artisan whose creations have appeared in the White House, the Smithsonian Institution, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, the Vatican, and other renowned exhibit halls. Retired heart surgeon Dr. Hussam A. Fadhi is an award-winning sculptor whose work is displayed around the world, including the Bush Presidential Library. Prolific industrial designer Karim Rashid is among the major talents of 21st-century design with work in New York’s Museum of Modern Art.

The first woman to design a major American art museum, Cincinnati’s $34 million Contemporary Art Center, is Iraqi-born Zaha Hadid. Artist Ghada Amer’s hand embroidered paintings were selected for the Whitney Biennial 2000 and the Venice Biennale in 1999. Naomi Shihab Nye is an award-winning poet and author of children’s literature.

Science and Medicine
One of America’s most famous pioneers is Houston surgeon Dr. Michael DeBakey, who invented the heart pump. Today he’s chancellor of Baylor University’s College of Medicine. Algerian-American Dr. Elias Zerhouni is the director of the National Institutes of Health.

Two winners of the Nobel Prize for Chemistry are Arab American. Dr. Ahmed H. Zewail, a professor of physics at the California Institute of Technology (CIT), is the 1999 winner. The 1990 winner is Harvard’s Dr. Elias Corey. Also at CIT is Dr. Charles Elachi, who was selected to head up the Jet Propulsion Laboratory. A pioneer in the field of electrical engineering, inventor Hassan Kamel Al-Sabbah worked for the General Electric Company (GE) in the 1920s and 30s. His research led to 52 patent applications, among them innovations in solar energy and television tubes.

Geologist George A. Doumani’s explorations helped prove the theory of continental drift; he has a mountain peak named after him in Antarctica. Another American geologist, Dr. Farouk el-Baz, born in Egypt, helped plan all the Apollo moon landings and later pioneered the use of space photography to study the Earth.

Finally, the courageous astronauts who lost their lives aboard the space shuttle Challenger represented several racial and ethnic groups: African-American, Hispanic-American, Asian-American, Anglo-American, Jewish-American — and Arab American: schoolteacher Christa McAuliffe.

We’ve all heard this quote before:

“Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country” — a famous quote by an Irish-American president, John F. Kennedy, that inspired an entire generation.

These words were first written by, among others, the Arab American author of “The Prophet,” Kahlil Gibran. And that sentiment, so beautifully expressed by Gibran more than 70 years ago, has inspired Americans of all heritages.

We Arab Americans are proud of our heritage and proud to be Americans. It’s this pride that keeps us all asking, “What can we do for our country?”— the good old U.S.A.


http://www.aaiusa.org/famous_arab_americans.htm