posted 29 November 2003 08:53 AM            

I was wondering if you guys could help me. What did the Ancient Egyptians call Egypt? I understand that this is a Greek name, but from an Egyptian word? A lot of people think the name for Egypt (I'm British) was Misr, but I understand this to be from Aramaic and means 'Border'. I assume this was given to the land as it was the Border of the Aramaic speaking Persian Empire. (like the Russians called the Ukraine- means 'Border'). From the Aramaic the Arabs then used the word to name Egypt Misr.

Help with this would be great.

sneuropa
p.s. this is a very interesting forum, and I mentioned it at SSNP forum (Syrian/Libnani).

posted 29 November 2003 10:44 AM            

'Egypt' is not a Greek word as some people think. It is a Pure Ancient Egyptian word.

This AE word 'Egybt' or 'Egypt' is reported in Wallis Budge Egyptian Hieroglyphic Dictionary (EHD) p.96a as follows:

[M17-W11-D58-N35A:N36] = i-g-b-t = igbt = Egypt = the land of rivers. This AE word was adopted later by the Greek to describe 'MiSr' or 'Egypt.

The True name of Egypt has Never changed from far pre-dynastic immemorial times up today. It is 'mSr' or 'miSr'. In Hieroglyphs the word 'mSr' is written using one of three main AE Hieroglyphs:

1- The 'pyramid' grapheme [O24] = mr = mSr = Egypt.
2- The 'hoe' grapheme [U7] = mr = mSr = Egypt.
3- The 'sun-rays' grapheme [F31] = mS = mSr = Egypt.

The additional S or r letters are called the 'motorizing letters' which the Ancient Egyptians usually hide in their Hieroglyphic writings for shorthand purposes. Sometimes these letters are added to give the word full alphabetic form.

One could find the true name of Egypt written as:

[U7:N35A] = [U7:N36] = mSr = Egypt beneath which rivers run.

Please see Wallis Budge EHD p.307b: translated to 'love, inundation, wish'!!

Also the AE name of Egypt is reported as follows:

[N16:U7] = ta-mr = mSr = land of Egypt.

Wallis Budge EHD p.1050b: translated to 'ta-mri = the land Meri = Egypt'!

For more details please read here:
http://alsaadawi.exeedia.com/

Regards

posted 29 November 2003 03:27 PM            

[I6-G17&X1-Y1v] = kmt = akmalt = perfected, from 'perfect'

Please, see Wallis Budge EHD p.787b: translated to 'kamt = the end, end of a period, completion, a finish, etc'.

Another example is:

[I6:X1] = kmt = kalimat = word.

The same page, translated to: 'black'!!

A third example is:

[I9-G17-X1:O49] = kmt = the perfect land.

This is the word that was wrongly deciphered as 'Egypt'. It is not a name of Egypt. It is just a description that Egypt is the land of perfection. It has nothing to do with 'black' or the name of Egypt. They deduced 'black' from the 'hair' sign [D3] which again was wrongly deciphered. Gardiner offered the hair sign [D3] the phonetic value 'shni' together with many other phones! If we consider that he is right then the word of 'kmt' should be read as follows:

[I9-G17&X1-D3:Y1] = kmt-shni = ?????

What does this mean? It is not 'kmt', it 'kmt-shni' !!

Wallis Budge (EHD p.787b) says it means 'black'! Is it kmt or shni that means 'black'? It is clear that it's all wrong guessing that has nothing to do with True readings of all those words.

The name of Egypt was and still 'mSr' up today without any change.

Regards

posted 29 November 2003 04:17 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by sneuropa:
Hi,

I was wondering if you guys could help me. What did the Ancient Egyptians call Egypt? I understand that this is a Greek name, but from an Egyptian word? A lot of people think the name for Egypt (I'm British) was Misr, but I understand this to be from Aramaic and means 'Border'. I assume this was given to the land as it was the Border of the Aramaic speaking Persian Empire. (like the Russians called the Ukraine- means 'Border'). From the Aramaic the Arabs then used the word to name Egypt Misr.

Help with this would be great.

sneuropa
p.s. this is a very interesting forum, and I mentioned it at SSNP forum (Syrian/Libnani).

---

Q:I was wondering if you guys could help me.

Your question can best be answered correctly by first informing you that the Ancient Egyptian language is NOT a dead language. It not only survives as Coptic Egyptian, but also in related languages such as Wolof(Senegal) and Yoruba(Nigeria). If you keep this fact in mind, you will not be mislead by spurious speculations.

The oldest, official name for Egypt, by the Ancient Egyptians is Kmt (Keme) or Black.
The contemporary Egyptian (Coptic) words for Egypt are (depending on dialect):
Kame, Keme, Kimi, and Kheme - all of which mean Black.
Also in Coptic Egyptian we have, kem, kame, kmi, kmem, kmom or "to be black."
The Ancient Egyptians referred to themselves as Kmtjw (Kemetou) and Kmmw (Kmemou) or Blacks. Ask anyone who speaks Coptic or is familiar with the language, how does one say Black people in Coptic. Exactly, Kmemou. In Wolof, Khem means "burnt to black."
There were also other terms they used to refer to Egypt:
TaMera : Land of the Inundation
TaMeri: My beloved land

posted 30 November 2003 09:18 AM            

To Wally: As for the Egyptian language, I have heard it sung on a tape of Coptic religious singing! I met a Coptic guy who was a 'minister' or something in a Coptic church in Manchester. And I have noticed similarities with Egyptian words and the ones in African languages- especially Fulani(Nigerian 'Berber' language). I don't know much about the languages you mentioned though I assume they are Berber too.

To Alsaadawi,
So MiSr is not an Aramaic word then, but Egyptian originally? Thanks. I will visit your website later.

Maybe the the peoples of Ancient Egypt used KMT and MSR for their land? Im being political here! It wouldn't be unusual for a people to do this, even towns in times gone had more than one name. I understand that KMT would come from the Nile mud? Black in Egyptian cultural mythology to ba a Living colour; Osiris was black.
MSR also then means similar things like rivers and life. The 'hoe'an agricultural tool and the sun's rays- they give life (seen in the Aten Cult especially).

posted 30 November 2003 04:33 PM            

This is correct.
"The name Mizraim may have been given Egypt (by foreigners) in respect of its double wall." - Budge, E.A.W.

The name Misr is a Semiticized form of Ancient Egyptian:
Medjr = walled district
Medjre = tower, fortress
These Ancient Egyptian words became Meetsrayeem [Egypt] and Meetsree [Egyptian] in Hebrew, and in Arabic; Misr and Masri respectively. It is the same as Westerners calling China, China, after the original Qin dynasty emperor [Tschina]. The Chinese, however, call their country Zhongguo or 'the Middle Kingdom.'

Ancient Egyptian glossary

'Egypt' [ ] = Contemporary Egyptian (Coptic) words

Eturmeh - North river (Lower Egypt) [Eioor - river]
Etures - South river (Upper Egypt)
Hedje - White Crown country (Upper Egypt)
Keme - Black (All of Egypt) [Keme - Black]
Kemi - "Southern" country (Upper Egypt)
Pasheti - The two divisions of Egypt; one belonging to Horus and the other to Set [Pashe - boundary]
Res - the South (Upper Egypt) [Res - south]
Shmo - the South (Upper Egypt)
Sonti - "the two halves of Egypt" (Upper and Lower Egypt)
Tawi - the Two lands (Upper and Lower Egypt)

Egyptians

Kemetu - Black's peoples (Egyptian citizens)
Kmemu - Black people (the Egyptian people)
Resu - Southern people (Upper Egyptians)
Ret - The Men [Rot - men]
Ret na Rome - We Men above mankind [Rome - men;mankind]
Rome n Keme - Men of Black ("Egyptians")
TaMeru - Land of the Inundation people (Egyptians)
Tawiu - The Two Lands people (Egyptian) [Ta;to - land]
"I don't know much about the languages you mentioned though I assume they are Berber too."

No, Berber is a **(questionable) sub-group within the Western Hamitic language family. Ancient Egyptian is part of the Eastern Hamitic language family:

"The Hamitic subfamily is generally considered to include ancient Egyptian (see Egyptian language) and its descendant, Coptic; the Berber languages; and the Cushitic languages... Some linguists also place the Chad languages within the Hamitic subfamily. Those Hamitic tongues are or were spoken in N Africa, much of the Sahara, the Horn of E Africa, and parts of central and W Africa. They were named after Ham, the second son of the biblical Noah, whose descendants supposedly were the original speakers of the Hamitic languages."
The Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia Copyright (c) 1994, 2000, Columbia University Press. Licensed from Columbia University Press. All rights reserved.

**"...Berber is a strange tongue that can be related to all kinds of languages...Specialists in Berber are careful not to insist on the relationship between Berber and Egyptian."
Diop, C. A. The African Origin of Civilization, pp68-9, Lawrence Hill