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Author	Topic: Application of "Racial Purity" to ancient and modern Egypt
Wally Member Posts: 296 Registered: Oct 2003	posted 28 August 2004 01:51 PM To Supercar & Rasol: P_me Waab, snhu_i! "The gospel truth, My brothers!" IP: Logged
supercar Member Posts: 644 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 28 August 2004 03:12 PM I just want to point out that, opponents of the points made in the introductory notes of this thread, ought to at least have the courtesy of providing logical refutations, backed by evidence. Merely saying a statement is incorrect and constantly leaving it to just that, doesn't cut it! As such, it would be wise to ignore such individuals, and not waste time trying to open their eyes. More often than not, such individuals just want to either play with the emotions of others, or they actually have no real basis for their comments! [This message has been edited by supercar (edited 28 August 2004).] IP: Logged
Horemheb Member Posts: 243 Registered: Jan 2004	posted 29 August 2004 02:20 PM It does no good to offer an academic discussion of a non academic subject. Discussing 'Africanists' talking points is like arguing with a person who says a UFO landed in their back yard last night. As many serious scholars are starting to point out, we have to clear the air of all this political propaganda and THEN we can have a serious discussion on issues. This stuff is not helping black people and it is not giving us new insights on the history of Africa. IP: Logged
Wally Member Posts: 296 Registered: Oct 2003	posted 29 August 2004 04:45 PM quote: Originally posted by Horemheb: It does no good to offer an academic discussion of a non academic subject. Discussing 'Africanists' talking points is like arguing with a person who says a UFO landed in their back yard last night. As many serious scholars are starting to point out, we have to clear the air of all this political propaganda and THEN we can have a serious discussion on issues. This stuff is not helping black people and it is not giving us new insights on the history of Africa. Don't you just luuuv this guy! quote: It does no good to offer an academic discussion of a non academic subject. translation: I really have no evidence to support my views that Ancient Egypt was not a Black African nation or to refute the evidence presented on this forum topic that it was... quote: Discussing 'Africanists' talking points is like arguing with a person who says a UFO landed in their back yard last night. As many serious scholars are starting to point out, we have to clear the air of all this political propaganda and THEN we can have a serious discussion on issues. translation: so I'll throw out the ol' code word - "Africanists" and pontificate a bit, 'cause I really don't have a clue about any of this... quote: This stuff is not helping black people and it is not giving us new insights on the history of Africa. Well here's the new insights on the history of Africa, buddy: The Ancient Egyptians recorded for posterity (which also includes those who don't like what they recorded), that they were Kemet - a Black nation, and Kememu - a Black people. You can pontificate until your 'UFOs land in your backyard' and nothing will change this objective reality. [This message has been edited by Wally (edited 29 August 2004).] IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 520 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 29 August 2004 05:21 PM quote: Originally posted by Horemheb: It does no good to offer an academic discussion of a non academic subject. Actually what you have done throughout this discussion, is offer non-academic comment about and academic subject. You've made it clear for all to see that you have no argument to make, and nothing to say. Keep up the good work. IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 520 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 29 August 2004 05:23 PM quote: Originally posted by Wally: You can pontificate until your 'UFOs land in your backyard' and nothing will change this objective reality. When the UFO's land, Horembeb can teach them all about "classcialism". IP: Logged
supercar Member Posts: 644 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 29 August 2004 11:01 PM quote: Originally posted by Horemheb: It does no good to offer an academic discussion of a non academic subject. Discussing 'Africanists' talking points is like arguing with a person who says a UFO landed in their back yard last night. As many serious scholars are starting to point out, we have to clear the air of all this political propaganda and THEN we can have a serious discussion on issues. This stuff is not helping black people and it is not giving us new insights on the history of Africa. I put forward a challenge for the statements I made as known facts, and this is the best you can come up with? I also gave you several reasonable questions, given the inadequacy of your responses, and I still get no answer! With this, it must be concluded that you've been defeated. I am now awaiting the next potential opponent, hopefully a more challenging one! BTW Horemheb, anybody who believes Egypt is anywhere else but in Africa and that Ancient Egyptian civilization is West Asian, is actually the kind of person who sees "UFOs in the backyard"! Whatever happened to your colleagues' "UFO origins of AE civilization" theory? IP: Logged
Horemheb Member Posts: 243 Registered: Jan 2004	posted 30 August 2004 09:42 AM I think many on this board have good intentions. Many simply decided to buy into the chorus of fantasy put out by the Africanist myth makers assuming they were real scholars. A small number, however, know exactly what they are doing and it is causing great harm to black heritage. Lets discuss history only for a time, leaving off these racial subjects. If that were to happen you would see the number of people on this board cut in half. IP: Logged
Horemheb Member Posts: 243 Registered: Jan 2004	posted 30 August 2004 09:57 AM Supercar, The statements you made are not known facts. There is some PARTIAL truth in some of them but they are established as facts only by a group of Africanist fiction writers. If you read an article and in the article the writer starts talking about Euro-Americans distorting black history you know immediately what you are dealing with. Red flags should go up everywhere at that point. This stuff is presented as articles of faith, not history. You are hurting black people everywhere by buying into this stuff. IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 520 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 30 August 2004 10:24 AM quote: Originally posted by Horemheb: [B]I think many on this board have good intentions. Many simply decided to buy into the chorus of fantasy The only fantasist in this discussion is you. And it's quite obvious that you don't really believe in your own fantasies. Your conduct betrays your fear and is typical of one who suspects his own views to be erroneous. That's why you keep replying to this thread, like a whipped dog who can't help but return to the scene of his defeat, and yet never actually address the issue. Horembeb, you give Africanists exactly what they want, a demonstration of the obvious intellectual bankruptcy of frustrated Eurocentrists. You keep on babbling, but have nothing to say. You are so exposed as a mere poseur. IP: Logged
supercar Member Posts: 644 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 30 August 2004 10:59 PM quote: Originally posted by Horemheb: Supercar, The statements you made are not known facts. There is some PARTIAL truth in some of them but they are established as facts only by a group of Africanist fiction writers. If you read an article and in the article the writer starts talking about Euro-Americans distorting black history you know immediately what you are dealing with. Red flags should go up everywhere at that point. This stuff is presented as articles of faith, not history. You are hurting black people everywhere by buying into this stuff. First you discredit Afrocentrics, and now Africanists. What next; people are going to be discredited for simply being African? You say my points are partial truth, but you still haven't addressed the issue through the method I requested earlier. Any fool can disagree with reality, but it takes a real intellectual to come up with an opposing view backed by real evidence. Lets face it, the fact is that my points are irrefutable, simply because they are by now either common sense or established facts. Horemheb, you've been whipped: you really have nothing to refute, as is evident from you unsubtantiated responses. You haven't picked up a single point I made earlier, which you oppose by presenting the alternative backed by concrete evidence. Trust me, when I say that this is no bible where scrutiny doesn't matter, we are dealing with reality here! [This message has been edited by supercar (edited 31 August 2004).] IP: Logged
supercar Member Posts: 644 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 31 August 2004 12:19 AM quote: Originally posted by Horemheb: I think many on this board have good intentions. Many simply decided to buy into the chorus of fantasy put out by the Africanist myth makers assuming they were real scholars. A small number, however, know exactly what they are doing and it is causing great harm to black heritage. Lets discuss history only for a time, leaving off these racial subjects. If that were to happen you would see the number of people on this board cut in half. The ammunition for my conclusions are the following: Archeological findings acknowledged by all Egyptologists, and associated radio-carbon dating records. Peer-reviewed science journals by the likes of the bio-anthropologists S.O.Y Keita and Richard Kittles, which have been almost universally accepted and are yet to be debunked. Lefkowitz, for example, had no problem referring to Keita's work! Demographical facts: ethnic groups of the nation and their history in that region, backed by anthropological findings. Facial and body reconstructions by "unsuspecting" experts or Forensics. Geographical facts, such as Egypt being in Africa, and the flow of the Nile! Political facts, such as contemporary Egypt being an active member of the African Union, notwithstanding it's political ties with the Arab world! Study of linguistics, i.e., origins of certain languages, that have been universally acknowledged! Nowhere above, is there any mention of classicists, university professors, journalists, or politicians on the list! I have provided my sources, what are yours? IP: Logged
Ashanti Junior Member Posts: 2 Registered: Aug 2004	posted 31 August 2004 03:54 AM What is with this Egyptian racial thing. I just stumbled over this site right now and some of what i have read is fscinating. I am intrigued by Egyptian Culture. The truth about the Egyptians in the BC era is out there if one doesn't know then the person is not being real to him or herself. Iam a Ghanaian now living in the US i care less about these things because i have read and found out stuff for myself. Egyptians now are a mixture of middleEstern descent, Europeans during the Roman Times and Greece as well as the poor Africans who got mixed up in that, but hey, i guess that makes the Modern Egyptians who've been there since the AD times or a little before. Personally idon't think West Africans can claim ancestry from there, i think Sudanese and chad people chad maybe north east of Nigeria those regions, like i said MAYBE but one thing i know for sure is, founders of ancient Egypt had close links with Nubia which is present day Sudan. Applying the bible here one of Noah's sons had 4 children and one went into Europe and was the caananite, the others Mizraim founded the Egyptian line, Cush(Kush) founded Ethiopia and Put founded Nubia(present day Sudan). Even Jewish traditions have it that on one occasion the Nubian Pharaoh were oppressing them. Some Roman writers as well as Greek writers have written Extensively about these Subjects. One other point i want to raise. Abraham was an Arab he was from Mesopotamia Now Iraq. And we should bear in mind he had slave servants from Egypt one was Zipporah whohad Ishmael. This is for those whosometimes get the race of early Jews Confused if, if he had children with some his servnat like in Zipporah's case then who knows there may have been some real dark ones (assuming the servnats were dark). We should bear in Mind that When a new leader arose he took charge of the servants. I am pretty sure Isaac took charge of some of them, and then Jacob. Joseph's wife was Egyptian his son's replaced him in the blessing so when Jews were leaving Egypt they had thirteen tribes. I am pretty sure at his time there was a mixture of different skin tones. And all things being equal at that time Egypt was a Melting Point. We should also know that islam wasn't around till somwhere in the early part of AD during which the Ottoman raids, Persia,Assyria. I don't remember how and when but we all know this brought about Islam into Africa. All the way from the North to West Africa and the North of East Africa it changed the landscape drastically. All these factors changed Africa and more. The truth is out there and Some peopel try to twist things. Well this is just something for people to read and for me to share. Before i go all i want from my north Africa brothers is to stay cool and hold it down with the other Africans be it East, South, Central or West, cause we know our history is real messy. Every external power wants a piece of us, divide and conquer still exist. We should stay cool as brothers and fight them off and Make the continent a better place. I GOTTA SAY THIS HOW COME AFRICAN AMERICANS ALWAYS TRY TO CLAIM ANCESTRY TO PHARAOHS WHEREAS THE SLAVE TRADE TOOK PLACE MAINLY IN WEST AFRICA AND SOUTHERN AFRICA. AND THEY CAN'T EVEN CLAIM ANCESTRY TO A PARTICUAR PLACE THERE. MOST OF THEM TOO, LOOK DOWN ON AFRICANS SPECIFCALLY BLACK AFRICANS, WE THERE DON'T BOTHER ABOUT THESE ISSUES LIKE THAT, THATS OLD NEWS. Peace Allahu Akbar IP: Logged
rasol Member Posts: 520 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 31 August 2004 06:43 AM Hello Allahu Akbar, there are at least two recent threads that deal with the questions you raise: http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/Forum8/HTML/000708.html http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/Forum8/HTML/000812.html IP: Logged
Ashanti Junior Member Posts: 2 Registered: Aug 2004	posted 31 August 2004 04:11 PM quote: Originally posted by rasol: Hello Allahu Akbar, there are at least two recent threads that deal with the questions you raise: http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/Forum8/HTML/000708.html http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/Forum8/HTML/000812.html thanks for the links Rasol by the way Allahu Akbar means God is Great my membership name is Ashanti because i am an Ashanti Prince Studying in the United States. They were helpful and confirmed what we were taught in Ghana about our history and the slave trade.African Americans if they want to trace their Ancestry should go to these places the main ports of Slave trade Ghana Senegal, Benin, Angola and South Africa. The main ports are Ghana (Cape Coast) Niger where the Dahomey state was. The British reportedly shipped a whole lot of slaves during their late arrival on the African coast called Gold Coast now Ghana and Dahomey in Benin or Niger. According to their figures they shipped more than double the figures the Portuguese, Spaniards and the Dutch did in Present day Senegal(goree), Ghana (cape coast and Elmina) and Dahomey in Benin. It is just funny how African Americans act when it comes to African History again Thanks Rasol. IP: Logged
supercar Member Posts: 644 Registered: Jun 2004	posted 31 August 2004 05:48 PM quote: Originally posted by Ashanti: What is with this Egyptian racial thing. I just stumbled over this site right now and some of what i have read is fscinating. I am intrigued by Egyptian Culture. The truth about the Egyptians in the BC era is out there if one doesn't know then the person is not being real to him or herself. Iam a Ghanaian now living in the US i care less about these things because i have read and found out stuff for myself. Egyptians now are a mixture of middleEstern descent, Europeans during the Roman Times and Greece as well as the poor Africans who got mixed up in that, but hey, i guess that makes the Modern Egyptians who've been there since the AD times or a little before. Personally idon't think West Africans can claim ancestry from there, i think Sudanese and chad people chad maybe north east of Nigeria those regions, like i said MAYBE but one thing i know for sure is, founders of ancient Egypt had close links with Nubia which is present day Sudan. Ashanti, with all due respect, the issue isn't about West Africans starting the AE civilization, but about "Black" Africans starting the civilization. The original Egyptians came from the south of Egypt(inner Africa), and had strong biological affinities with East African groups. East Africans such as Sudanese, Somalians and Ethiopians, are all Black Africans. These groups, including ancestors of West Africans, came from what is called Proto-Sahara, the green/wet Sahara. Naturally if all these groups were living in proximity, clear-cut demarcations of groups would be impossible. That is why bio-anthropologist Kieta, rejected the notion of the "forest Negro" with the stereotypic features, being the sole representative of Black Sub-Saharan groups, including West Africa. The origins of Ancient Egyptian culture can be traced back to Proto-Sahara, as well as Nubia, needless to say none of which can be considered Europe or West Asia. Nobody on this board, has ever denied foreign influx to North Africa or Egypt, in order to create it's heterogeneous society; just emphasizing it's African origins, as opposed to claims made by the likes of Horemheb, about the culture being brought by West Asians or Europeans. Such claims are just about as ridiculous as the Extraterrestrial introduction of Ancient Egyptian culture! IP: Logged
kenndo Member Posts: 100 Registered: Jul 2004	posted 31 August 2004 06:53 PM quote: Originally posted by Ashanti: What is with this Egyptian racial thing. I just stumbled over this site right now and some of what i have read is fscinating. I am intrigued by Egyptian Culture. The truth about the Egyptians in the BC era is out there if one doesn't know then the person is not being real to him or herself. Iam a Ghanaian now living in the US i care less about these things because i have read and found out stuff for myself. Egyptians now are a mixture of middleEstern descent, Europeans during the Roman Times and Greece as well as the poor Africans who got mixed up in that, but hey, i guess that makes the Modern Egyptians who've been there since the AD times or a little before. Personally idon't think West Africans can claim ancestry from there, i think Sudanese and chad people chad maybe north east of Nigeria those regions, like i said MAYBE but one thing i know for sure is, founders of ancient Egypt had close links with Nubia which is present day Sudan. Applying the bible here one of Noah's sons had 4 children and one went into Europe and was the caananite, the others Mizraim founded the Egyptian line, Cush(Kush) founded Ethiopia and Put founded Nubia(present day Sudan). Even Jewish traditions have it that on one occasion the Nubian Pharaoh were oppressing them. Some Roman writers as well as Greek writers have written Extensively about these Subjects. One other point i want to raise. Abraham was an Arab he was from Mesopotamia Now Iraq. And we should bear in mind he had slave servants from Egypt one was Zipporah whohad Ishmael. This is for those whosometimes get the race of early Jews Confused if, if he had children with some his servnat like in Zipporah's case then who knows there may have been some real dark ones (assuming the servnats were dark). We should bear in Mind that When a new leader arose he took charge of the servants. I am pretty sure Isaac took charge of some of them, and then Jacob. Joseph's wife was Egyptian his son's replaced him in the blessing so when Jews were leaving Egypt they had thirteen tribes. I am pretty sure at his time there was a mixture of different skin tones. And all things being equal at that time Egypt was a Melting Point. We should also know that islam wasn't around till somwhere in the early part of AD during which the Ottoman raids, Persia,Assyria. I don't remember how and when but we all know this brought about Islam into Africa. All the way from the North to West Africa and the North of East Africa it changed the landscape drastically. All these factors changed Africa and more. The truth is out there and Some peopel try to twist things. Well this is just something for people to read and for me to share. Before i go all i want from my north Africa brothers is to stay cool and hold it down with the other Africans be it East, South, Central or West, cause we know our history is real messy. Every external power wants a piece of us, divide and conquer still exist. We should stay cool as brothers and fight them off and Make the continent a better place. I GOTTA SAY THIS HOW COME AFRICAN AMERICANS ALWAYS TRY TO CLAIM ANCESTRY TO PHARAOHS WHEREAS THE SLAVE TRADE TOOK PLACE MAINLY IN WEST AFRICA AND SOUTHERN AFRICA. AND THEY CAN'T EVEN CLAIM ANCESTRY TO A PARTICUAR PLACE THERE. MOST OF THEM TOO, LOOK DOWN ON AFRICANS SPECIFCALLY BLACK AFRICANS, WE THERE DON'T BOTHER ABOUT THESE ISSUES LIKE THAT, THATS OLD NEWS. Peace Allahu Akbar HI,one correction,and that is that in the bible cush founded,nubia and ethiopia,but ethiopia in the past was a name given to nubia,by the greeks and romans for modern day northern nubia in modern egypt and the rest of nubia in present day sudan and beyond. IP: Logged

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