posted 05 January 2005 01:34 AM            

entering Bedouin territory[probablly a region

of the Sinai in order to 'hack up the land';

and two more attacks were directed at an

unknown walled towns. The victims are

described as Aamu[Asiatics, and 1,554 of them

are said to have been captured as prisoners.

These large numbers of foreign captives may

well explain the extensive lists of Asiatics

slaves working in the houses of Thebes[Waset]

in later times.

Oxford History of Ancient Egypt
edited by Ian Shaw

page 163

Egyptian intolerance toward the 'easteners'

was already apparent in the reign of Senusret

I, who described himself as the throat

slitter of Asia, and this general perception

is reinforced by execration texts.

page 167

Oxford History of Ancient Egypt
edited by Ian Shaw

posted 04 February 2005 05:39 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Horemheb:
There was no hostility since other Asiatics were running the country, priesthood and government.

---

Taking information from you a** is just pathetic. Provide facts, or just close that mouth.

posted 04 February 2005 06:33 PM            

quote:

---

There was no hostility since other Asiatics were running the country, priesthood and government.

---

Can you tell me which time period this was? Most of the inscriptions about the ''sand dwellers'' and Aamu refer to them as wretched.

Unassimilated foreigners were not allowed acess to the temples nor the priesthoods.

Roy said:''

quote:

---

Taking information from you a** is just pathetic. Provide facts, or just close that mouth.

---

The best way to deal with people is to ask them questions and to provide references. Getting emotional in a debate is a sign of weakness.

Heru said''

quote:

---

Well it seems like plenty of Asiatics became Egyptian citizens. Was there any hostility towards them in that case?

---

Yes, assimlated foreigners were accepted into ancient Egyptian society,but unassimilate foreigners were not. Foreigners to the ancient Egyptians represented Isofret[Chasos] and disorder to Ma'at[balance].

posted 04 February 2005 06:56 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ausar:
The annals refer to a small group of Egyptians

entering Bedouin territory[probablly a region

of the Sinai in order to 'hack up the land';

and two more attacks were directed at an

unknown walled towns. The victims are

described as Aamu[Asiatics, and 1,554 of them

are said to have been captured as prisoners.

These large numbers of foreign captives may

well explain the extensive lists of Asiatics

slaves working in the houses of Thebes[Waset]

in later times.

Oxford History of Ancient Egypt
edited by Ian Shaw

page 163

Egyptian intolerance toward the 'easteners'

was already apparent in the reign of Senusret

I, who described himself as the throat

slitter of Asia, and this general perception

is reinforced by execration texts.

page 167

Oxford History of Ancient Egypt
edited by Ian Shaw

---

posted 04 February 2005 07:04 PM            

quote:

---

I read from Genesis of the Pharaohs the population of the Eastern Desert (ancestors of modern Beja) were also referred to as wretched and considered inferior to the Nile Valley pop even though they influenced much of predynastic Egypt.

---

The Beja also worked as police men and guards within Egyptian territory. Some scholars like Kent R. Weeks,Frank J. Yurco,and Donald Redford believe that the 17th and 18th dyansties might have been of Beja origins.

The Beja were amungst the soliders to fight against the Hykos with Ahmose.

posted 04 February 2005 07:20 PM            

Just like some neocon rightwing Euro Americans consider themselves a notch above continental Euros or how Russians considered themselves superior to nonRussians in the USSR it's not too hard too imagine that a contempary superpower like the Nile Valley AE would consider themselve superior to other Africans like the Beja and Nubian ancestors even though they have a common ethnic origin.

quote:

---

Originally posted by ausar:
The Beja also worked as police men and guards within Egyptian territory. Some scholars like Kent R. Weeks,Frank J. Yurco,and Donald Redford believe that the 17th and 18th dyansties might have been of Beja origins.

The Beja were amungst the soliders to fight against the Hykos with Ahmose.

Do you have the direct quotes that reffered to Beja in Egyptian texts? Remeber that Beja were the Medijay.

---

posted 04 February 2005 07:41 PM            

No man can settle down, when despoiled by the taxes of the Asiatics. I will grapple with him, that I may rip open his belly! My wish is to save Egypt and to smite the Asiatic! I went north because I was strong (enough) to attack the Asiatics through the command of Ammon, the just of counsels. My valiant army was in front of me like a blast of fire. The troops of the Madjoi [Beja] were on the upper part of our cabins, to seek out the Asiatics and to push back their positions. East and west had their fat, and the army foraged for things everywhere. I set out a strong troop of the Madjoi, while I was on the day's patrol Teti, the son of Pepi, within Nefrusi. I would not let him escape while I held back the Asiatics who had withstood Egypt. He made Nefrusi the nest of the Asiatics. I spent the night in my boat, with my heart happy. - Kamose inscription.

My observation:
Egyptologists play with terminology alot. They will take the same words and interpret them as Nubian, Medjoi, or even Negro depending on the context.

There are several references in the primary text regarding the Hysksos conflict (17/18) dynasty to the effect that "only the Beja are with us". As distinct from the Hyksos of course and the Kushites.

Thebans/Beja vs. Hyksos/Kushites is one of the most interesting conflicts in history in my opinion.

posted 04 February 2005 07:48 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
Kemetian and Medjay (Beja) relationship were complex. I wouldn't be chocked to find some 'anti' Beja references, but most of what I have read is more like this:

[

My observation:
Egyptologists play with terminology alot. They will take the same words and interpret them as Nubian, Medjoi, or even Negro depending on the context.

---

posted 04 February 2005 08:50 PM            

quote:

---

I agree. I've read some text that say the medjay are the the Beja in others they are called Nubians. The indigeneous inhabitants of the western Desert I've read were berber speakers but the Noba (not Nuba in Sudan) who originated in the Western Desert supposedly speak a Nilosaharan language. There is some contradictory and conflicting info.

---

The problem I have with terms like Noba,Nubian,and Berber is they are easily confused by the casual laymen. Most laymen don't know that early Arabic writers reffered to the Nubians as Berbere[this only means barbarian]. The Noba was a term for various tribes living in Sudan around the Greco-Roman period. Nubian or Noba was not commonly used by ancient Egyptians themselves and they called portions past the first cataract Ta-seti,Wawat,and past the second cataract was Irem,Yam,irtjet, and Kush.

In the past Egyptologist have attempted to designate the word Nehsi to mean Negro. No Egyptologist believes this anymore and this color designation has been abandoned. Nehsi just means riverline Nubians and nothing else. It reffers particulary to the Kushites living around the 3rd and fourth cataracts.

The only indigenous Berber speakers in Egypt are people living in the Siwa oasis.

posted 06 February 2005 03:19 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by kovert, the one and only:
I agree. I've read some text that say the medjay are the the Beja in others they are called Nubians. The indigeneous inhabitants of the western Desert I've read were berber speakers but the Noba (not Nuba in Sudan) who originated in the Western Desert supposedly speak a Nilosaharan language. There is some contradictory and conflicting info.

---

THE noba like other nubians they say came from the west it is really the southwest.that would be southwest sudan and northern part of central africa,but they would have come from the sahara and savanna region of central africa and than coming to southwest sudan,than the next stop would be going to the nile.It is the c-group nubians they say came from the western desert,but that may not have been so.

posted 06 February 2005 12:53 PM            

quote:

---

THE noba like other nubians they say came from the west but they all say southwest.that would be close to were darfur is at today and northern part of central africa.it is the c-group nubians they say came from the western desert,but that may not have been so.

---

Most physical anthropologist and archaeologist have proven that the C-group was just a continuation of the original A-Group. No one longer tries to find a foreign origin for the C-Group.

The Noba people in modern Sudan are Niger-Kofadan speakers instead of Nilo-Saharan speakers like most Sudanese.

Most modern Nubians like Kenuzi,Dongolan, etc. are Nilo-Saharan people. The Southern Sudanese like Nuer,Shilluk, and Dinka are also Nilo-Saharan speakers.

Nilo-Saharan speakers exist in Western Africa such as the Songhai.

posted 09 February 2005 11:53 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ausar:


Most physical anthropologist and archaeologist have proven that the C-group was just a continuation of the original A-Group. No one longer tries to find a foreign origin for the C-Group.

The Noba people in modern Sudan are Niger-Kofadan speakers instead of Nilo-Saharan speakers like most Sudanese.

Most modern Nubians like Kenuzi,Dongolan, etc. are Nilo-Saharan people. The Southern Sudanese like Nuer,Shilluk, and Dinka are also Nilo-Saharan speakers.

Nilo-Saharan speakers exist in Western Africa such as the Songhai.

---

AGREED,and some other nilo-saharan speakers are in central africa,other parts of west africa like nigeria and other places in west africa,and other states in east africa and some in north africa as well.

posted 10 February 2005 01:35 PM            

Apa - "he who belongs to the house i.e. servant"

Amu - one of the Asiatic tribes engaged in domestic service in Ancient Egypt

Sua (Sua-nit), a nome in AE.

posted 10 February 2005 01:36 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by rasol:
The Beja (Medijay) however speak an Afrasan language and not NiloSaharan like most of the people called Nubians.

---

I've read several opinions by linguists that the Beja language is the closest relative to Pharaonic Egyptian...

posted 11 February 2005 02:48 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wally:
I've read several opinions by linguists that the Beja language is the closest relative to Pharaonic Egyptian...

---

posted 01 April 2005 02:32 PM            

CRADI.E OF CiVlU7AlION

The hull's tai.! suspef1(l_d from the king's belt also illustrates the ancient practice of wearing animal attributes in order to take on tbe powers of nature. This belief goes back as far as we can trace and its earliest 11lanifestations occur in the Eastern Desert rock art. There, the
hunters don ihex horns in order to gain mastery over their quarry.
Distant echoes of these prehistoric hunting expeditions in the eastern savannah Me still heard _,soo years later, when the ru!ers of the New Kingdom had themselves shown hunting in the very same enviro,,ment. Once again, the desert hunting scenes painted in tombs, and on objects like Tutankhamun's box, can be seen as reflections of an eadieI' way of life: one that had imprinted itself on tbe Egyptian psyche.

d'

_._._

,.

P very state requires ideological glue to bold it togetber. Since time
G immern:,rial,.I.=ad:rs around the worl_ have sought to unite.tbeir
people by portraying those oUtside their society as a danger. A sense of collective identity is one of the most powerful incentives for national
IInity. HUt a scn;'c of collective identity also requires a corresponding
sense of external threat. From tbe very beginning of the Egy ptian slate
- limned in about 3000 BC - the rulers of the new country were adept
at this type of psychological pressure. The enemies of Egypt were pre
sentl'd as the encmi<:s of creation, and i_'as the king's duty to crush
them. Without the king as defender of ord__ chaos wo\Jld triunph and
everything would be lost. This was to prove so powerfiJl an ideology
that Egyptian kingship would survive as the sole model of government
for 3,000 years - a remarkable achievement. But there was a supreme

60 ;"Ol)' laUd .,bowlng tbe Egyptltlll king sllbjilgatlng the desert z"habitm1!S (reign of
King Om Flm DYlla.rty). OllIe Egypt bad bmlll1tifted Illto 0 single .rtate, official
II!t-olo.O ((HI (lIlynni' lh',ng o;il,Cld(' the Nil" V'!!ey a.r a barharian mId a IIWfat 1.0 f'.gyp'IIIIl mllure. frollilal/y, Ibis t1'm induded Ihe pa.rtornli.rts 0/ tbe Red Sea bil/'; Ihe
1"":Y pmple ",bMe dl.r,i,lctivc llfc.r(ylc had helped to{ashion phommllc civilization.

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-_--- - -

CRADl.F OF OVlUUTIOJ,'

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irony in this new, nationalistic propaganda: the outsiders vilifcd in OfJlcial art and texts not only included the foreign peoples of Western Asia, Libya and Nubia; they also comprised the remaining pastoralist inhabitants that clung onto their ancient way of .life in the hills and wadis to the east of the Nile Valley (Fig. 60). Condemned as 'barbarians' and belittled as 'sand-dwellers', these desert herdsmen were, in fact, the sale survivors of a lifestyle that had sown the seeds of ancient Egyptian civilization itself. The pharaohs' propaganda masked their own ongms.
The new discoveries of rock art in the Easl_;n1 Desert have ta ken us on a journey of discovery, greater in its scope and more astonishing in its results than even those pioneering expeditions of Weigall and Winkler. We have dated the petroglyphs, unmasked the ancient artists, and thereby painted an unexpected pictUre of life in Egypt 6,ooo)'ears ago. We have also seen that the origins of pharaonic culture - its po\\'
,;erfiJI art, its rich symbolism and its haunting religion - arc to be tiHlnd, not in a settled agricu!tttgrlifestyle by the banks of the Nile, but in the challenges of a more precarious, nomadic existence amdng the mountains and wadis to the east. Egypt may be the gift of the Nile; but ancient Egyptian civilization was the gift of the deserts.

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'94

'95