posted 08 February 2005 11:16 AM            

Source:

posted 08 February 2005 12:17 PM            

By: Mark Andrews

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/race.htm

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Originally posted by Horemheb:
everyone knows AE's were not black Africans

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posted 08 February 2005 01:23 PM            

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Originally posted by Horemheb:
everyone knows AE's were not black Africans

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Orginally posted by ABAZA:
Here is another source, that tells us about Egypt being a Melting Pot of sorts;

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posted 08 February 2005 01:42 PM            

No one is saying all were black in egypt,just most of them in ancient times.

posted 08 February 2005 01:44 PM            

Professor Horemheb's only colleagues are his drinking buddies at the pub.

posted 08 February 2005 01:45 PM            

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Originally posted by Horemheb:
the only negro kings reigned during what was known as the 'nubian dynasty.'

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posted 08 February 2005 02:16 PM            

only very eurocentric ones who dont believe the ancient nubians were black i:e brace,y adams.

posted 08 February 2005 02:37 PM            

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Originally posted by Horemheb:
I'm not going to argue black politics

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posted 08 February 2005 02:43 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ABAZA:
Here is another source, that tells us about Egypt being a Melting Pot of sorts;

By: Mark Andrews

<A HREF="http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/race.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/race.htm
</A>

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From ABAZA's link:

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Examination of human remains from the Predynastic period shows a mixture of racial types, including negroid, Mediterranean and European.

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Tell me Horemheb, why is it (according to you) NO negros were kings prior to the Nubian dynasty?

posted 08 February 2005 05:12 PM            

Call the egyptian history department as well at nyu univ. in new york city,they will say the same thing.
by the way when my sister was in high school years ago in the 1990's history books in the n.y.c. school system had ancient egypt in the african section,not the so-called middle east.

Those changes started to happen before the 2000's or before dvd's and before many folks had a computer.
Many historians and others have admitted this,it is hollyweird and some of the childern books that have not told the truth yet,but many serious historians have and are telling the truth when pushed.

posted 08 February 2005 05:22 PM            

This cheif dentist of the old kingdom is obviously a black African

Your judgement is piss-poor if you call them anything other than black African.

posted 09 February 2005 02:57 PM            

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It is your stupid scholars, professors and Egyptologist who are trying to wash everything white.

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Even the racist Egyptologists have given up on that line. Most have retreated to the point of simply being obscure about the Black African roots of AE. You should read the Oxford History of Egypt for a 'state of the western' discourse on Ancient Egypt. African scholars have forced this change in the dialogue, although there is much to be done still, of course.

ps - Horemheb is just a silly clown. We either play with him or ignore him. It isn't serious.

posted 09 February 2005 04:00 PM            

People like Horemheb would still label the producer as an 'Afronut', because Herodutus, Aristotle, etc are also 'Afronuts', despite being non-Negroid (or hybrids).

posted 09 February 2005 06:28 PM            

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Originally posted by Horemheb:
HERU, I'm not affraid of anything. You, on the other hand, have no interest in history. Egyptologists and those interested in history do not spend all their time talking about race. You are a black Afrocentric radical and you can be sure that the scholars in our Universities are not going to listen to you. They know exactly who you are.

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posted 10 February 2005 12:41 PM            

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Originally posted by rasol:
Even the racist Egyptologists have given up on that line. Most have retreated to the point of simply being obscure about the Black African roots of AE. You should read the Oxford History of Egypt for a 'state of the western' discourse on Ancient Egypt. African scholars have forced this change in the dialogue, although there is much to be done still, of course.

[This message has been edited by rasol (edited 09 February 2005).]

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Rasol, this is why I can't believe there are so many people still wasting energy on these outdated notions. I have the Oxford book, published in 2000, and even they no longer believe in a caucasian Egypt or the invasion theory. Like you said, there is much more work to do as they still neglect the true African origin, but if they have given up on white Egyptians, why do we see so many people here arguing this nonsense? You would think that to a Eurocentrist, you can't get more "official" than the Oxford Enclopedia.

posted 10 February 2005 04:34 PM            

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Originally posted by Horemheb:
Roy, you need to study the Greeks you quote and learn how to put what they say in a proper context.

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Have you read the Greek texts? Why don't you take a quote from Herodotus in which he states that the Ancient Egyptians and the Ethiopians look exactly like the Greeks or were not black skinned with wooly hair.

posted 11 February 2005 07:49 AM            

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Originally posted by Roy_2k5:
Have you read the Greek texts? Why don't you take a quote from Herodotus in which he states that the Ancient Egyptians and the Ethiopians look exactly like the Greeks or were not black skinned with wooly hair.

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The Herodotus Quote:

Perhaps the most frequently cited Greek quote among Afrocentrists is that of Herodotus (Histories 2.104.2) describing Egyptians as well as Colchians of the Caucasus as "dark-skinned and woolly-haired." That the Egyptians were dark relative to Greeks is not surprising, considering that the same is true today. But Herodotus' description of Egyptian hair would, at first glance, appear to conflict with the physical evidence left by the Egyptians themselves -- numerous mummies with hair still attached to the skulls showing more straight, wavy, or lightly curled hair types than "woolly." The only way to make the evidence consistent is to assume Herodotus spoke in a relative rather than absolute sense. That is, Egyptian hair was on average curlier than Greek hair, and the tightly-curled ("woolly") hair type was found more often in Egyptians than in Greeks -- as is true today. There is no reason to assume on the basis of Herodotus' words that all or even most Egyptians had "woolly" hair, nor that such hair found in Egyptians was as "woolly" as that of tropical Africans. Indeed, Herodotus himself mentions only "Ethiopians" -- not Egyptians -- as having the "woolliest hair of all men" (Herodotus Histories 7.70.1). Moreover, Herodotus' explanation that being melanchroes or oulotriches "indeed counts for nothing, since other peoples are, too" suggests that these adjectives did not apply exclusively to any one "race" of people.

An analogous example of a stereotype based on relative comparison comes from the medieval Arab scholar Ibn Butlan, who noted the Greeks as having "straight blond hair" and "blue eyes." Does this mean that all medieval Greeks had a Nordic appearance? Certainly not: it merely suggests that the blond-haired, blue-eyed type is more common among Greeks than Arabs and stood out more as a salient characteristic worthy of mention. The Arabs, like the Greeks, noted characteristics that were unusual in their own population and used these traits to typify the foreigners.

Interestingly, Herodotus mentions the Colchians as another group having "dark skin and woolly hair." Considering that the Colchians inhabited what is roughly modern-day Georgia in the Caucasus, it would seem that the vast majority of Colchians were most likely -- and quite literally -- Caucasian. Of course Afrocentric diehards might claim that Colchians too were black Africans, but such a theory runs into trouble when one considers the observations of Hippocrates, who wrote that the Colchians in Phasis "are large and corpulent in body. Neither joint nor vein is evident. They have a yellow flesh, as if victims of jaundice" (Hippocrates, Airs, Waters, Places 15). Nothing in Hippocrates' description suggests that Colchians look anything like sub-Saharan Africans and this further weakens the Afrocentric argument that Egyptians and Colchians must have looked like "blacks" on the basis of Herodotus' words.

posted 11 February 2005 08:45 AM            

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Most agree with the above post that the greeks saw Egyptians as 'darker than them.'

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They clearly distinguished them from the Nubians.

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More idiocy from you. The Greeks did not use the term Nubian. They did use terms like Egyptus and Ethiopian and they often used them generally and interchangably.

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in is also true that much mummy hair

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A correct assessment of your semantics was made by a Discovery Channel fimmaker on this forum yesterday. Tellingly you did not respond:

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thborg writes: I would like to say to Horemheb, you are a lier. You know absolutely nothing about the security that went into the Nefertiti facial reconstruction. First off, there was no "woman" involved. It was done by a team on guys who work closely with Scotland Yard assisting them with facial reconstructions of crime victims who may be nothing more than skeletal remains. Furthermore, the three bodies in the tomb are not "cream white" as you state, but were covered in a fine gray dust (lots of it) that fell from the wall of the enclosure. There was no racial component added nor discussed, you're thinking about the Tut reconstruction (another of my films) where we used typical upper Egyptians as the "African racial" model (I hope the word African, makes Abaza pop a vein). When I met with Zahi, even though he disagrees with Joann, he greeted me with a big hug thanked me for "bringing our people and culture back to life" with my films. My Rameses film, well, he wasn't to pleased with that due to the whole Exodus thingy. To each his own opinion. By the way, the wall covering Nefertiti's secret chamber has come down, the enclosure cleaned out, painted and the three royal mummies placed in glass coffins. Nefertiti has the once missing royal arm discovered by Joann, on film, placed at her feet. So, Horemheb (by the way, I hope you were greatly annoyed by that very black African Horemheb I cast in "Who Killed King Tut"), again I say you are a lier...and not a very talented one at that.

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posted 11 February 2005 09:10 AM            

1.so some mummies were white and the hair is caucasian whats your point euro.

2.you forgot to add herodutos reckon the colchians were a colony from pharoah senwosrets army i.e egyptian black people. and st jerome and pliny reckoned they were black too.

posted 11 February 2005 09:26 AM            

"fact is the Classical scholars do not agree with you and that ends the argument".

posted 11 February 2005 09:31 AM            

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rasol...you are probably uneducatable

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As we will see......

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While the race of a mummy can be obsecured by time the hair is easily identifiable.

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Secondly, you know nothing about translating Greek

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Canon George Rawlinson (23 November 1812 – 7 October 1902), was a 19th century English scholar and historian.
George Rawlison, M.A., F.R.G.S., Canon of Canterbury and Camden Professor of Ancient History at the University of OxfordHaving taken his degree at the University of Oxford (from Trinity College) in 1838, he was elected to a fellowship at Exeter College, Oxford, in 1840, of which from 1842 to 1846 he was fellow and tutor. His chief publications are his translation of the History of Herodotus

http://gymnasiax.com/texts/herodotus/herodotus02.html

Still the Egyptians said that they believed the Colchians to be descended from the army of Sesostris. My own conjectures were founded, first, on the fact that they are black-skinned and have woolly hair

It's not my translation. If you've ever read english translation of Greek text, then you would know that melas is routinely translated as black. Gk. melas "black",melas, (gen. melanos black).

But you haven't, so you don't. You are just a laughable Eurocentric idiot and that's why we love you!

The reference to Black skinned and woolly haired Egyptians has been translated as such in Herodutus Histories not only by Rawlinson, but Aubrey De Selincourt and most others and indeed, I am unaware of any African translation of Herodotus the Histories. The idea that "Black skinned and woolly haired" is an "Afrocentric" interpretation is therefore a non-starter.
And the notion of intepreting Herodotus in some other way (where Black does not mean "Black" is largely a sop to Eurocentric political correctness and disingenuousness- re-writing the Histories.

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Horemheb I say again, you are a lier and a bad one

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Now...go back to sleep baby Horemheb; lesson endth; it's time for your nap.