posted 20 February 2005 09:42 PM            

This is the hard data:

1)If you were to take all the DNA of blacks in the U.S. you would find that 17-18% of the total are not from Africa. This is based on Shriver's research.

2)If you were to take each black individually and test for non-African ancestry you will find that approx 30% will have non-African ancestry. This is based on Kittles's research.

In fact, long before genome testing began Du Bois put the percentage at 28%.

3)In the text titled "Time on the Cross" which was an exhaustive econometric study of the planatation economy Stanley Engerman put the admixed slaves on the plantations as late as 1865 at 7%. So even Kittles's 30% may be a bit high given that there are large pockets of blacks living in isolated areas in the Southern U.S. I am curious to know if his data base covered those areas.

Of course, pre-1865 about 15% or so of blacks were already free. So it would seem that all the estimates point to about about 30% of blacks having non-African ancestry.

In technical terms the best away to answer the question is to look for the male European Y signature--because that was the main route for the genetic modifications in the African population. The first post(By Steve Sailer) states that. The white female MtDNA input amounts to only 5%.

What should be noted too is that once a class of mixed race persons has been established it would be in in the interest of everyone in that group to maintain the stability of that group by not choosing someone darker than oneself for bonding purposes. Better to choose someone with equal or greater European lineage.

The result is that the Africans are left to multiply only with themselves for the most part. This is what happens in a racially conscious caste society where the stigmatised group is residentially and socially segregated. And that pattern continues even today. Most blacks in the U.S. live in residentally segregated areas.

What this means too is that the members of the group that is mixed would tend to interact mainly with that group thereby feeding the illusion that "everybody is mixed".

You will note that the second post tells us that skin colour is not a reliable marker because the skin colour of Africans varies appreciably.
So some African American may asume that because they are not "jet black" they must be mixed. So maybe that's where the illusion lies.

Let me give an example from Africa. The white settlers have been in South Africa for many generations but the so-called "coloured" population is only about 8% of the total population. There's no hiding the numbers here because during Apartheid the goal was to migrate to the next group up just to avoid the racism and hardship. So quite a few Africans forged their way into the coloured class whenever they could.

posted 21 February 2005 01:08 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ABAZA:
From the U.S. Census form:[b]

White: A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa. It includes people who indicate their race as "White" or report entries such as Irish, German, Italian, Lebanese, Near Easterner, Arab, or Polish.

[/B]

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Abaza where does it say egyptian, The census put north africa because their "gov." claim to be arab, so the reason all of Egypt is considered white, is because of the false label put on the country that ppl whom occupy the region are arab in origin (the thing that’s kind of funny is that the white ppl in Egypt are mostly European, Turkish, Persian decent, and non of these ppl are arab). We are arabic speaking but not arab in origin there is a difference.

posted 21 February 2005 09:38 AM            

Arabs are NOT WHITE PEOPLE, NEITHER ARE NORTH AFRICANS. The term is Caucasoid people.

It has nothing to do with skin color at all.

What it means, is that the Original Native peoples of North Africa (Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, and Marrocco) and the people of the Middle East (Arabs, Persians, Iranians, Turks, Assyrains, etc.) are classified with the White or Caucasians Group.

MOST OF THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT WHITE IN SKIN COLOR, BUT RATHER A MIXTURE OF MOSTLY LIGHT BROWN TO VERY DARK SKIN COLOR.

Egypt, according to the U.S. Census, is DOUBLE WHITE, because it is a North African and a Middle Eastern country!

This directive has no special emphasis on Arabs per se. It is only about the Geographic Region. The only reason, Arabs, Persians, Turks, or whoever it cites as examples and examples only.

I hope you can finally get it now!!

quote:

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Originally posted by multisphinx:
Abaza where does it say egyptian, The census put north africa because their "gov." claim to be arab, so the reason all of Egypt is considered white, is because of the false label put on the country that ppl whom occupy the region are arab in origin (the thing that’s kind of funny is that the white ppl in Egypt are mostly European, Turkish, Persian decent, and non of these ppl are arab). We are arabic speaking but not arab in origin there is a difference.

[This message has been edited by multisphinx (edited 21 February 2005).]

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[This message has been edited by ABAZA (edited 21 February 2005).]

posted 21 February 2005 09:55 AM            

The vast majority of Hispanics in the U.S. are split between 5 groups: i)people of Spanish origins who carry the Southern European phenotype, ii)people of both Spanish and Native American ancestry and it shows on their faces and body type, iii)persons of strictly Native American ancestry, iv)persons of African and Spanish ancestry, and v)persons of strictly African ancestry.

That's why on all those data results there's that asterisk that tells you
"Hispanics could be of any race".

posted 21 February 2005 10:30 AM            

Re: Mexican population

I don't like to use terms like "full-blooded" because it's not a scientific term yet I want to believe--based purely on casual observation--that the Mexican strictly indigenous population is less than 86%. I want to believe that what sociologists call "the mestizo population" is approximately 55%.

posted 21 February 2005 10:33 AM            

In many Latin American countries, if you have any White Blood whatsoever, you're considered White.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Horemheb:
I agree lamin with your breakdown. Mexican population is 86% full blooded Indian and these people are considered white. Black hispanics would be considered black.

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posted 21 February 2005 09:57 PM            

Arabs are NOT WHITE PEOPLE, NEITHER ARE NORTH AFRICANS. The term is Caucasoid people.

ABAZA SAYS: I did read the whole thread. M not saying Arabs of today are white ppl i am saying the original arabs were white. Caucasoid does mean, white.
It has nothing to do with skin color at all.

Who said it did?

ABAZA SAYS: What it means, is that the Original Native peoples of North Africa (Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, and Marrocco) and the people of the Middle East (Arabs, Persians, Iranians, Turks, Assyrains, etc.) are classified with the White or Caucasians Group.

Which is not true. White and caucasian are the same thing here in the US.

Abaza says: MOST OF THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT WHITE IN SKIN COLOR, BUT RATHER A MIXTURE OF MOSTLY LIGHT BROWN TO VERY DARK SKIN COLOR.

So what makes them labled caucasoid if that the case?

ABAZA Egypt, according to the U.S. Census, is DOUBLE WHITE, because it is a North African and a Middle Eastern country!

What is "Double White" where u makin up terms. Egypt is Politacally involved with the Middle East but its an African country. Egypt is differant from the rest of North Africa when it comes to its ppl. The AE were not Berbers, and the original inhabitants of Egypt were not Caucasoid, same with North Africa.

posted 21 February 2005 10:30 PM            

Have you read anything on this thread?

Please go back and read the first link and article for more details.

It is quite simple, and it explains how Brown People, like the Arabs, Egyptians, Persians, Berbers, etc, are classified as White in the U.S., because of that is the way the U.S. Census has determined.

Why are you trying to make the Egyptians seem as aliens? Egyptians are part of their region, just as Libyans, Lebanese, Algerians, etc.

Each one of these countries has people who are very very dark, but that is not the point. The point is based on the region as a whole and the predominante groups who live in those countries or areas.

White people are part of the Caucasian race, but not all caucasians are white!!

Now, do you get it, or must I explain it again?

The actual people who live in the Caucus Mountain region are swarthy in complexion or rather short and dark.

You seem to think that the U.S. government does not know what it is doing, and they're waiting for people like you to tell them how to classify people. Sorry, but the Government has no need for people who fail to read all the information presented to them.

Also, if you want to classify yourself as BLACK, NEGRO, NEGROID, BLACK AFRICAN, or whatever, no one will stop you!!

What I'm trying to do, is to EXPLAIN TO YOU, the way things are, and NOT WHAT THE AFROCENTRIST WISH THEY COULD BE!!

posted 21 February 2005 10:59 PM            

No one is talking about Ancient Egypt in this thread. Please try to READ A LITTLE BIT BETTER!!

Egypt is a NORTH AFRICAN and a MIDDLE EASTERN ARAB COUNTRY and so are its PEOPLE.

================================================================
QUOTE:

What is "Double White" where u makin up terms. Egypt is Politacally involved with the Middle East but its an African country. Egypt is differant from the rest of North Africa when it comes to its ppl. The AE were not Berbers, and the original inhabitants of Egypt were not Caucasoid, same with North Africa.

posted 21 February 2005 11:05 PM            

Caucasians or Caucasoid people are the larger group, which includes people who range in complexion from very pale almost pink skin tone to dark brown skin tone.

Try to look it up in an encyclopedia, if you don't believe the experts!!

quote:

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Originally posted by kenndo:
a caucasian to me is white person,there is no such thing as a dark white.that is good footwork but it is a trick and it is not going to work.

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posted 21 February 2005 11:18 PM            

"Have you read anything on this thread?"

Yes i did and you are not understanding what m trying to say

"It is quite simple, and it explains how Brown People, like the Arabs, Egyptians, Persians, Berbers, etc, are classified as White in the U.S., because of that is the way the U.S. Census has determined."

Persians are not brown, neither are most arabs most are what is known as white or caucasian. This must make Indians, pakistanies, african americans(whom most are brown), etc... white then...WHy not? didnt you say brown is caucasain.

"Why are you trying to make the Egyptians seem as aliens? Egyptians are part of their region, just as Libyans, Lebanese, Algerians, etc.

Yea part of North Afirca, but the ppl are differant, Egypt is Diverse and as an egyptian you should know that. Lebonese ppl are white and dont look nothing like an egyptian. Egypt is diverse, brown, black, mixed, white , etc... mostly mixed though and in the US mixed is not caucasian. I read the article and understand what it says.

"white people are part of the Caucasian race, but not all caucasians are white!! ;("

All caucasions are white. Thats why we are not considered minorities in the US.

"The actual people who live in the Caucus Mountain region are swarthy in complexion or rather short and dark."

So...

"You seem to think that the U.S. government does not know what it is doing, and they're waiting for people like you to tell them how to classify people. Sorry, but the Government has no need for people who fail to read all the information presented to them."

They don't they never did. If they did the census would make sence.

posted 21 February 2005 11:20 PM            

whites

Wikipediawhites

Whites is a broad term used to describe people of ethnic European descent, especially those with fair skin. The term Caucasian is sometimes used with much the same meaning in the USA although people elsewhere would more likely understand the use of the word Caucasian to refer to people from the Caucasus. It is often used in contrast with other racial color terms, such as black or, rarely, yellow or brown. Although the most prevalent term in casual conversation, the term white is increasingly rare in academic and formal discussions of racial demographics, however it is still often used in discussions of racial attitudes, particularly in the humanities, and in fields such as Black studies, Critical race theory, and Whiteness studies.

The scope of the term white has been confused over time, and the confusion varies from place to place. For example, in the USA, Ashkenazi Jews and Slavs were often considered separate from the white race for many years, and have generally been considered "white" since World War II. Similarly, in Haiti, Cuba, and Brazil light-skinned people of mixed (African and European) descent are considered "white"; in the United States, those same people would be considered "black".

Additionally, the popular definition of white in the United States often includes all Hispanic and Latino peoples, sometimes including peoples of European Spanish descent. However, relatively few Hispanics in the U.S. are of primarily Spanish descent; the majority of U.S. Hispanics are mestizo (mixed Spanish and Native American ancestry). Most Americans view all Turks, Arabs, and Iranians as non-white as well.

This usage is sometimes criticized by those who argue that it de-ethnicizes various groups. During the era of Jim Crow Laws in the US South, facilities were commonly divided into separate sections for "White" and "Colored" people. These terms were defined by law, with people of exclusively northern and western European descent being labeled "White" and African-Americans labeled as "Colored". The categorization of people of other ethnicities and mixed ancestries varied from state to state and in different municipalities.

Countries with an important percent of whites include most the of the nations of Europe as well as countries colonized by Europeans in the 1400s-1800s such as the United States, Canada, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, the Asiatic territories of Russia, Australia, and New Zealand. In these nations, the relatively small indigenous populations were overwhelmed by white colonists from one or more European "mother countries".

Significant minorities of whites live in South Africa, Zimbabwe, Namibia, and in the various Latin American and Caribbean countries. Many of these nations have experienced considerable political conflict between the white minority (descended from settlers from the former colonial power) and a non-European majority, heightening the sense of white racial identity.
=================================================================
See also
Caucasian
Whites is also the common name for the Pieris genus of butterflies.

[This message has been edited by ABAZA (edited 21 February 2005).]

posted 21 February 2005 11:48 PM            

Skin color does not determine race. Egyptains, Arabs, Persian, Turks, Armenians, are mostly olive, light brown, to dark brown, yet all of them are classified as Caucasians or White if you like.

quote:

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Originally posted by multisphinx:
Race is a social aspect, and ppl see socially caucasiain as white. There is not such thing as race is somthing socially developed, and skin color does not dertermine race because ppl of mixed races, like some mixed african americans can have really white skin, does that make them white? Some chinese have white skin does tha make them white? how bout brown as i mentioned before. SKIN COLOR HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE.

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posted 22 February 2005 12:13 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ABAZA:
That is exactly what I have been trying to tell you.

Skin color does not determine race. Egyptains, Arabs, Persian, Turks, Armenians, are mostly olive, light brown, to dark brown, yet all of them are classified as Caucasians or White if you like.

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posted 22 February 2005 12:42 AM            

in linguistics, the Caucasian languages are a large number of languages spoken in the Caucasus area; often specifically those that have no demonstrated relatives outside of that region, which are classified into the South, Northwest, Northeast, and North-central Caucasian language families.

in physical anthropology, the Caucasian race is meant for a specific race of Homo sapiens, sometimes given a Latin designation such as "Varietas Caucasia" (sic), which does not follow the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature.
in forensic anthropology and census contexts, especially in the United States, the Caucasian type is a specific combination of physical attributes, especially white skin.

in common usage and political contexts in the USA, Canada, and Australia, Caucasian refers to light-complexioned people indigenous to, or descended from Europe, northern Africa, southwest Asia, and the Indian subcontinent. In North America, Caucasian usually means a white person of northern, southern, eastern, and western European, Middle Eastern, and North African descent, excluding people with significant Asian, African, or American Indian ancestry. Usage of the term "Caucasian" for "White Person" is common in many countries of the Anglosphere, but it is not universal.

in bartending, a Caucasian is a mixed drink also referred to as a White Russian.
This is a disambiguation page — a navigational aid which lists other pages that might otherwise share the same title. If an article link referred you here, you might want to go back and fix it to point directly to the intended page.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian"
Categories: Disambiguation

posted 22 February 2005 01:02 AM            

Caucasian is just a label for the larger group of people who look like Europeans in facial features, but the majority are not white people.

Indians, Arabs. Iranians, Egyptians, Berbers, Druze, Kurds, Armenians, Afghans, etc are all considered Caucasians (Caucasoid People), yet most of them are not actually white people.

quote:
==============================================================
by: multisphinx

All caucasions are white. Thats why we are not considered minorities in the US.

posted 22 February 2005 01:13 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ABAZA:
This statement makes no sense whatsoever.

Caucasian is just a label for the larger group of people who look like Europeans in facial features, but the majority are not white people.

Indians, Arabs. Iranians, Egyptians, Berbers, Druze, Kurds, Armenians, Afghans, etc are all considered Caucasians (Caucasoid People), yet most of them are not actually white people.

[b]
quote:
==============================================================
by: multisphinx

All caucasions are white. Thats why we are not considered minorities in the US.

[This message has been edited by ABAZA (edited 22 February 2005).][/B]

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posted 22 February 2005 01:13 AM            

quote:

---

n common usage and political contexts in the USA, Canada, and Australia, Caucasian refers to light-complexioned people indigenous to, or descended from Europe, northern Africa, southwest Asia, and the Indian subcontinent. In North America, Caucasian usually means a white person of northern, southern, eastern, and western European, Middle Eastern, and North African descent, excluding people with significant Asian, African, or American Indian ancestry. Usage of the term "Caucasian" for "White Person" is common in many countries of the Anglosphere, but it is not universal.

---

This article says in political usage. Political useage does not mean anthropological useage of the term.

The Haratin and Gnawa are two black groups within Morocco and I doubt they would fall under the caucaasian bracket despite what their political classification was.

posted 22 February 2005 01:19 AM            

I am white, a cracker, a honkey, a wasp, and you know I don't care.

Give up this color/race obssesion there should be something else to describe, classify and segregate people by.

Now lets start segregating people by butt size, shlong size, natural cup size, IQ, humor ability (my extreme weakness), ability to match clothes, ability to consistantly remember to zip their zipper, parallel parking ability, ability to predict the next 'Idol', and corniness of laugh.

posted 22 February 2005 02:16 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ABAZA:
That is exactly what I have been trying to tell you.

Skin color does not determine race. Egyptains, Arabs, Persian, Turks, Armenians, are mostly olive, light brown, to dark brown, yet all of them are classified as Caucasians or White if you like.

well,it is wrong and you have to stand up to folks who would do such thing,you do not follow them if you know it is wrong.if they jump of the bridge are you going to do the same? i hope not.

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posted 22 February 2005 02:28 AM            

Arabs, Egyptians, Persians, Turks and Armenians came to the USA under similar circumstances as many Europeans. They are at the same level of economic, educational, and socail success as many European descended Americans.

This is a designation that the US census bureau uses to decide what part of the budget goes where, and the US department of labor to analyze if certian ethnic/race groups need some direction.

Europe often uses the same designations.

I am actually Scandinavian American, my husband and I go over his 26 generations that his family has collected to his name to figure out with ethnicity's his family has amassed. Both our family's were extremely isolated so little marriage outside our group has happened.

This is why this race thing creeps me out.

Many egyptians have their fathers's first name as the middle name and so on. Wouldn't this be an easier way of figuring out who has what ethnicity to them?

posted 22 February 2005 06:04 AM            

Please keep my words separate from your reply at the end. You say it is wrong, but I would say the Gov't is wrong to classify South Asians or Indians/Pakistanis/etc. the same as East Asians, who have nothing in common.
You should read my thread about the Asian Americans.

Most people of South Asia (Indians, Pakistanis, Bengalis), are a lot closer to West Asians (Arabs, Afghans, Persians) than they're to East Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Filipino, etc.), therefore, they should be classified as Caucasians or something else.

quote:

---

Originally posted by kenndo:

well,it is wrong and you have to stand up to folks who would do such thing,you do not follow them if you know it is wrong.if they jump of the bridge are you going to do the same? i hope not.

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[This message has been edited by ABAZA (edited 22 February 2005).]

[This message has been edited by ABAZA (edited 22 February 2005).]