posted 17 May 2005 12:32 AM            

Cruciani et al., 2004:

Cluster alpha is largely characterized by the otherwise rare nine-repeat allele at A7.1 (we found only 3 such alleles out of 800 E[xE3b1] chromosomes analyzed [present study; R.S., unpublished data]), often associated with the uncommon DYS413 24/23 pattern and its one-step neighbors...

Cluster beta, characterized by the DYS413 23/21 pattern and the rare 10-repeat allele at DYS439, is common in northwestern Africa (14.0%), representing 80% of E-M78 chromosomes in that area. Outside this region, E-M78 was observed only in five European subjects.

All of the chromosomes in cluster gamma (fig. 2B) are identified by the rare short 11-repeat allele at the DYS19 STR locus. We did not find this allele in >2,000 Y(xE-M78) chromosomes analyzed (present study; R.S., unpublished data), and it is reported in only 9 of 13,447 subjects analyzed for this marker in the European Y-STR reference database (Y-STR Haplotype Reference Database Web site). The cluster E-M78 was found in eastern Africa at an average frequency of 17.7%, with the highest frequencies in the three Cushitic-speaking groups: the Borana from Kenya (71.4%), the Oromo from Ethiopia (32.0%), and the Somali (52.2%). Outside of eastern Africa, it was found only in two subjects from Egypt (3.6%) and in one Arab from Morocco.

The fourth cluster(cluster delta in fig. 2B) is present, albeit at low frequencies, in all of the regions analyzed (4.0% in eastern and northern Africa, 3.3% in the Near East, and 1.5% in Europe) and shows a notable microsatellite differentiation (fig. 2B)...Time-of-divergence estimates for E-M78 chromosomes suggest a relatively great antiquity (14.7 ± 2.7 ky) for the separation of eastern Africans from the other populations.

...the clinal frequency distribution of E-M78 alpha within Europe testifies to important dispersal(s), most likely Neolithic or post-Neolithic. These took place from the Balkans, where the highest frequencies are observed, in all directions, as far as Iberia to the west and, most likely, also to Turkey to the southeast. Thus, it appears that, in Europe, the overall frequency pattern of the haplogroup E-M78, the most frequent E3b haplogroup in this region, is mostly contributed by a new molecular type that distinguishes it from the aboriginal E3b chromosomes from the Near East. These data are hard to reconcile with the hypothesis of a uniform spread of a single Near Eastern gene pool into southeastern Europe. On the other hand, they might be consistent with either a small-scale leapfrog migration from Anatolia into southeastern Europe at the beginning of the Neolithic or with an expansion of indigenous people in southeastern Europe in response to the arrival of the Neolithic cultural package. At the present level of phylogenetic resolution, it is difficult to distinguish between these possibilities.

posted 17 May 2005 11:48 AM            

The important thing to keep in mind is that the E-M78 alpha cluster derived in Europe AFTER the spread of neolithic technology to the region from Africa.

posted 17 May 2005 02:04 PM            

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Thought Writes:

The important thing to keep in mind is that the E-M78 alpha cluster derived in Europe AFTER the spread of neolithic technology to the region from Africa.

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posted 17 May 2005 02:26 PM            

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Originally posted by Horemheb:
SC, there is no such thing as a Eurocentric.

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posted 17 May 2005 03:08 PM            

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the alpha cluster of this haplotype is essentially not found in Africa

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The only purpose of discussing these Haplotypes is to denote lineage.

ALL E3bs originate in Africa.

E3b1 is a son of E3b and also originates in Africa

E3b1 spread down the Nile FROM tropical Africa and across the Levant and INTO Europe along with the Neolithic - E3B1 alpha.

The 'alpha allele' helps us to determine when this lineage entered Europe, which is recently....along with the Neolithic.

That does not 'help' Eurocentrism one bit.

Likewise if E3b1-alpha were found in Nigeria, and an 'additional allele' accumulated, making it E3b1-alphaX found only in Nigeria. It would document that Nigeria has recent ancestry FROM EUROPE.

That this hypothetical Haplotype 'alphaX' is 'only' found in Nigeria, does not qualify this fact in any substantial way, because by definition alphaX is the RECENT Nigerian son of European Alpha.

posted 17 May 2005 03:24 PM            

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Originally posted by rasol:

Likewise if E3b1-alpha were found in Nigeria, and an 'additional allele' accumulated, making it E3b1-alphaX found only in Nigeria. It would document that Nigeria has recent ancestry FROM EUROPE.

That this hypothetical Haplotype 'alphaX' is 'only' found in Nigeria, does not qualify this fact in any substantial way, because by definition alphaX is the RECENT Nigerian son of European Alpha.

Eurocentrists who don't understand this [and likely do not wish to] use the 'alpha' designation to 'soften the blow', but they are not making sense.

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I concur.

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That this hypothetical Haplotype 'alphaX' is 'only' found in Nigeria, does not *qualify* this fact in any substantial way, because by definition alphaX is the RECENT Nigerian son of European Alpha.

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I know what you meant; that it doesn't disqualify its recent sub-Saharan African origin in any way.

And oh, guess where I came accross this silly notion, while I was browsing the internet...none other than one of Dieneke's blogs! Go figure.

posted 18 May 2005 08:53 AM            

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I know what you meant; that it doesn't disqualify its recent sub-Saharan African origin in any way.

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Yes, or qualify as in - word or phrase that qualifies, limits, or modifies the meaning of another word or phrase.

Or quite simply: referring to E3b1 in southern Europe as E3b1 alpha does not change the meaning of "E3b1 originates in East Africa and spread to Europe during the Neolithic".

posted 18 May 2005 02:50 PM            

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Originally posted by rasol:
Yes, or qualify as in - word or phrase that qualifies, limits, or modifies the meaning of another word or phrase.

Or quite simply: referring to E3b1 in southern Europe as E3b1 alpha does not change the meaning of "E3b1 originates in East Africa and spread to Europe during the Neolithic".

This facilitates a heterogeneous Southern European population with West Asian and African admixtures.

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posted 19 May 2005 08:13 PM            

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Originally posted by rasol:

Or quite simply: referring to E3b1 in southern Europe as E3b1 alpha does not change the meaning of "E3b1 originates in East Africa and spread to Europe during the Neolithic".

This facilitates a heterogeneous Southern European population with West Asian and African admixtures.

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Thought Writes:

You know, an interesting comparison can be made to ALL of the attention given to the Cohen Gene in the Lemba versus the spread of E3b through-out the circum-Mediterranean Basin. The evidence for gene flow FROM Eurasia to Africa is celebrated, the evidence of gene flow FROM Africa to Eurasia is silenced in the media.

posted 20 May 2005 04:30 AM            

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Originally posted by rasol:
Yes, or qualify as in - word or phrase that qualifies, limits, or modifies the meaning of another word or phrase.

Or quite simply: referring to E3b1 in southern Europe as E3b1 alpha does not change the meaning of "E3b1 originates in East Africa and spread to Europe during the Neolithic".

This facilitates a heterogeneous Southern European population with West Asian and African admixtures.

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Whats funny is that they like to downplay the the West Asian element in European populations by calling it 'Caucasoid' as if to say it doesn't matter because its not Negroid because thats what they're really saying. They want to keep racial purity by obfuscating the facts.