posted 01 June 2005 02:12 AM            

Excerpt:

"A bitter war is raging, about the unlikeliest of questions: What was the racial type of the Ancient Egyptians? By examining the portraiture, ancient literature, skeletal remains, and living descendants of this remarkable people, we may quickly determine that the Egyptians have always been much what they are today: a people of white to brown skin, dark wavy, or curly hair, and mainly Caucasoid facial features. This essay will present (again) all the evidence supporting this rather obvious conclusion, deconstructing the dubious assumptions of those who imagine that the Ancient Egyptians had affinities with non-Mediterranean Europeans or black Africans. The motive of those who propose such fantastical theories is to make a political point about early civilization and its initiators, to serve the (perceived) interests of modern-day ethno-racial groups. Our goal is to show that Egyptian civilization is the creation and heritage of the Egyptian people and to determine the actual racial components of this people."

posted 01 June 2005 02:26 AM            

The people of Egypt have been and continue to be mostly Caucasoid North Africans with minor admixture of Black African Genetics.

posted 01 June 2005 05:15 AM            

It is not a bitter war that is raging. The only war that is being raged is by those in Egypt, who are trying to go agains the evidence and enforce a lie. The lie is that the Ancient Egyptians were so light as to be almost white in appearance. The Egyptian standard for depicting men AND women was MEDIUM TO DARK BROWN. NOW UNLESS YOU CAN PROVE WITH SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE THAT THEY WERE NOT THIS COMPLEXION, STOP MAKING THESE POSTS TO ATTACK AMERICANS, EUROPEANS AND ASIANS FOR BELIEVING THE EVIDENCE IN FRONT OF THEIR FACES AND NOT GOING FOR NONSENSE ARGUMENTS THAT CONTRADICT THE EVIDENCE. This has nothing to do with American blacks, Europeans or Asians. It only has to do with the EVIDENCE.

Here are some very black modern Egyptians that match the representations in the tombs to 100%. http://www.dotphoto.com/GuestViewImage.asp?AID=2281726&IID=17739453&INUM=12&ICT=16&IPP=60

I claim, and most of the others here claim, that the Ancient Egyptians looked almost exactly like these children. From skin color to facial features to stance, they match the portraits from ancient Egypt very well. They are not European, American, Arab or Asian, they are Egyptian. So I am not trying to claim Egyptian history for anyone other than the Egyptians themselves and not the foreigners who have invaded and tried to USURP the history for their own purposes.

Look at all of the NATIVE MEDIUM TO DARK BROWN EGYPTIANS OF TODAY, WHO ARE NOT CAUCASIAN: http://www.dotphoto.com/GuestViewImage.asp?AID=2281726&IID=17739274&INUM=7&ICT=16&IPP=60
http://www.dotphoto.com/GuestViewImage.asp?AID=2281726&IID=17739412&INUM=11&ICT=16&IPP=60
http://www.dotphoto.com/GuestViewImage.asp?AID=2281664&IID=17739696&INUM=18&ICT=18&IPP=60
http://www.dotphoto.com/GuestViewImage.asp?AID=546789&IID=17738816&INUM=1&ICT=27&IPP=60
http://www.dotphoto.com/GuestViewImage.asp?AID=546789&IID=17741586&INUM=24&ICT=27&IPP=60

Note that these CAUCASIAN foreigners look nothing like the Egyptian portraits, so therefore the Ancient Egyptians were NOT CAUCASIAN. http://www.dotphoto.com/GuestViewImage.asp?AID=2281726&IID=17739231&INUM=2&ICT=16&IPP=60

But look at something else, these tombs are being allowed to be entered and continue to decay. I guess they are too AFRICAN for anyone to be concerned about that. Likewise, look at the image on the pylon. Looks like a very early Example of Egyptian tomb art, almost showing a clear link to the rock art of the Sahara. Hmmmm, wonder why this isnt better preserved or studied? http://www.dotphoto.com/GuestViewImage.asp?AID=2281726&IID=17739288&INUM=9&ICT=16&IPP=60

posted 01 June 2005 07:25 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by fareed:
Ancient Egypt and Modern Egypt are same racially and ethnically. All the so called invaders and settlers did not change the phenotype of the natives.

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Well no and yes. No, most modern Egyptians, for the most part do not look exactly like the ancient Egyptians. Anyone who looks at the tombs or statues they left behind can see that.

Yes, the invaders and settlers didn't change the phenotype of indigenous Egyptians. However, indigenous Egyptians are a minority while the majority of Egytians are racially mixed.

quote:

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Originally posted by fareed:

Most of my people are proud of being who they are and do not care for those that would try to tarnish their history and discredit them from their rightful ownership of their great legacy.

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No one is discrediting lighter skinned Egyptians from their claim to ancient Egypt's legacy. You discredit your own claim when you deny the ethnic affinity of the ancient Egyptians with East Africans(who are predominantly black African). People generally understand that while Egypt has been over run by foriegnors over the past 2000 years, most modern Egyptians are descendants of the ancient Egyptians.

quote:

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Originally posted by fareed:

The people of Egypt have been and continue to be mostly Caucasoid North Africans with minor admixture of Black African Genetics.

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The word caucasoid doesn't seem to mean non-black since it is still applied to Nubians and Ethiopians by some. Africans are very diverse people.

quote:

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Originally posted by fareed:

Foreign or American social racial standards should never be used to fabricate Egyptian History.

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I agree. However, you shouldn't ignore the racial standards of the ancient Egyptians themselves. They had their own concepts of race and ethnicity. In ancient times, race wasn't confined to skin color, it was defined by ethnicity or nationality. From the evidence they left behind it is clear that the ancient Egyptians had ethnic affinities with black Africans.

posted 01 June 2005 08:38 AM            

Otherwise it makes it seem as if you are hiding something and are ashamed of the source:

re: A bitter war is raging

posted 01 June 2005 11:04 AM            

In the first link look at the bottom one which was described as a “Caucasoid North African”. And then check the second link where it shows of a negroid type skull. Exact identical. How in the hell did they come up with this bogus term, Caucasoid North African? That’s a Negroid North African skull and it’s visibly clear as shown above. Let’s have some common sense here instead of making this forum into some kind of sci-fi tabloid bullshit. Besides it’s already scientifically proven that blacks have just as diverse looks as any other races in the planet. The indigenous black Africans vary from light brown to dark brown in skin color and some have different facial structure which can be natural or in result of different types of climate and diet. If you are trying to find any similarities with the Caucasians or of the white race you are only proving that they (Caucasians) derived from the Africans or a result of admixture not the other way around again let’s have some common sense here. Flip the table around and Africans can make the same argument that there is no such thing as white race but just another branch of the black race. It’s actually the truth in a very broad term. Out-of-Africa hypothesis is by far the most respected and is agreed upon by most of the experts from paleoanthropologist to archeologist. That’s science son.

Yes I agree that back then they didn’t have a racial concept. They were just Egyptians. But as of today where we live in racially divided society the Ancient Egyptians would have been racially categorized as of the black race. First you have to look how they were described by the foreigners during their time. Almost all if not all of them described them as of the prototypical blacks of today’s society. Also from the Ancient Egyptians own words they were described as black. Look at the sculptures and artifacts found during that time; it’s no coincidence that it resembles the black race of today. You add everything up it’s clear who they were. Only bitterness that I know of in this incident is the Arabian Egyptians that are desperately in need of their own identity, the same people who had nothing to do with Ancient Egypt; the same people that came after Ancient Egypt totally collapsed.

posted 01 June 2005 11:10 AM            

UGHAN, ONT. - York Regional Police have released drawings of an unidentified woman whose badly burned body was found in an industrial park more than 10 years ago.

A police officer made the gruesome discovery on Sept. 1, 1994, after noticing a fire behind a building on Bradwick Drive near Highway 7 in Vaughan.

When the fire was put out, the body of a young woman was found in the remains of a suitcase. Gasoline and tires had been used to fuel the fire.

On Tuesday, investigators released drawings of a clay reconstruction of the victim's face, along with previously unpublished information that they hope may help someone identify her.

Forensic testing indicates that the victim was likely a dark-skinned Caucasian from a North African country such as Sudan, Ethiopia, Somalia or Egypt. Her estimated age was 17 to 18.

She stood five feet, four inches, and had a very slim build, weighing between 85 and 100 pounds. She had dark curly hair, which may have been dyed a reddish colour, and protruding front teeth, which were in good condition.

Police say the victim had suffered broken bones in her back and lower limbs that had been left to heal untreated. As a result, they say she was likely immobile and in constant pain.

Drawing of 1994 homicide victim
[IMG] http://toronto.cbc.ca/gfx/Toronto/photos/cold_case20050125.jpg http://toronto.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=to-coldcase20050125

posted 01 June 2005 11:27 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by fareed:
Ancient Egypt and Modern Egypt are same racially and ethnically. All the so called invaders and settlers did not change the phenotype of the natives. Most of my people are proud of being who they are and do not care for those that would try to tarnish their history and discredit them from their rightful ownership of their great legacy.

The people of Egypt have been and continue to be mostly Caucasoid North Africans with minor admixture of Black African Genetics.

Foreign or American social racial standards should never be used to fabricate Egyptian History.

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Moron! Caucasoid North African is a FOREIGN AND AMERICAN SOCIAL RACIAL STANDARD!

And as far as the purity of your phenotype, I need only to look at Mexico to have a very clear understanding of what happens when an advance culture is colonized by Europeans?

Lets break it down to you like this:

Mexico has been mixing with Europeans for only aprox. 350 years.

60% are of mixed race.
9% are of the white race (unmixed).
30% are of original people.
1% other

Egypt has been mixing with Non-African Europeans and Eurasians for well of 2000 years. The result is basic mathmatics using Mexico as an example. If in 350 years you go from 100% original people to 30% then in 2000 years you well only aproximately have 6% original people left.

What is also interesting is that Mexicans prefer light skin people and if you had only seen Mexicans on TV you would think that they are all Caucausian. In fact, if asked most Mexicans consider themselves to be Caucausian even though they are clearly of mixed ancestry. As far as phenotype, most Mexicans look nothing like Aztecs. They are clearly mixed in a appearance and the same is true of modern day Egyptians (but far more so). Many Egyptians well claim to be White. Of course it is rather startling to hear of Egyptians that say they are black but it is getting to be more common for me to hear this. I know quite a few Arabs who also claim to be Black. Black is loosing the stigma of slavery and the idigenous people of colonized countries are taking back control over their history, culture and resources. The result is that many of these people are no longer under the oppression of Europeans and can again proudly identify with their true roots.

Egyptians are Africans!

Fact is, the Egyptians are probably the most conquered people on EARTH! Who hasn't conquered the Egyptians and taken credit for their culture?

posted 01 June 2005 11:35 AM            

Are you saying the upper class elite Modern Egyptians of today are indigenous? lol Again defies science and logic. The type you described are of a mixed, mulatto, and often today described by the white people you admire as "spics". Don't even tell me that they were white even the Eurocentric text books in college say they weren't white.

posted 01 June 2005 11:57 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by osirion:
Moron! Caucasoid North African is a FOREIGN AND AMERICAN SOCIAL RACIAL STANDARD!

And as far as the purity of your phenotype, I need only to look at Mexico to have a very clear understanding of what happens when an advance culture is colonized by Europeans?

Lets break it down to you like this:

Mexico has been mixing with Europeans for only aprox. 350 years.

60% are of mixed race.
9% are of the white race (unmixed).
30% are of original people.
1% other

Egypt has been mixing with Non-African Europeans and Eurasians for well of 2000 years. The result is basic mathmatics using Mexico as an example. If in 350 years you go from 100% original people to 30% then in 2000 years you well only aproximately have 6% original people left.

---

posted 01 June 2005 12:19 PM            

Just because someone points out the extraordinary weakness of your arguments does not make them a racist.

Take a look at the many different cultures of Africa. They're not the same nor do they share a "common culture."

What should be considered most offensive to Africans is the myth that they're "all the same" and denying their ethnic diversity.

very well said and worth repeating....

posted 01 June 2005 12:36 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by fareed:
Whose the racist? You, who insists that everyone in egypt was "black", or me, who is quite comfortable acknowledging that egypt was probably a hodge-podge of people?

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quote:

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Just because someone points out the extraordinary weakness of your arguments does not make them a racist.

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quote:

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Ancient Egypt and Modern Egypt are same racially and ethnically. All the so called invaders and settlers did not change the phenotype of the natives.

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quote:

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Take a look at the many different cultures of Africa. They're not the same nor do they share a "common culture."

---

quote:

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What should be considered most offensive to Africans is the myth that they're "all the same" and denying their ethnic diversity.

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quote:

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very well said and worth repeating....

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posted 01 June 2005 01:13 PM            

I never said Egyptians were all black I said “ANCIENT EGYPTIANS” were black. Today it’s so diverse I would consider Egyptians of all race. You’ll see some indigenous black Africans and you'll see some that are mixed ones especially in Cairo and in the big city. Elite groups are mostly of the mixed race and some of them with very light skin.

Compare this with the situation here in US. Only ignoramus would call the current white people who live in this country Native Americans because they aren’t. You have to remember that Native Americans were not mixed and a race of their own until it was stolen from them. Many of them died and many of them just mixed in with the rest of the society. There are very few indigenous Indians. That doesn’t mean Native Americans weren’t pure because they were. They once ruled this country before they were invaded.

It’s the same logic with the Ancient Egyptians. They were indigenous pure black Africans when it all begun. It wasn’t until the late period they had mixture with foreign people. They were invaded and conquered by your people of today. Problem I have here is that white Americans admit what they did and they don’t at least claim that the Indian culture was theirs or other bogus claims. You guys are still in denial despite of all the evidence telling otherwise. You guys were part of Egypt but not part of Ancient Egypt other than being an invader during the late period. Those are historical facts that can not be denied.

posted 01 June 2005 01:28 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by fareed:
Whose the racist? You, who insists that everyone in egypt was "black", or me, who is quite comfortable acknowledging that egypt was probably a hodge-podge of people?

Just because someone points out the extraordinary weakness of your arguments does not make them a racist.

Take a look at the many different cultures of Africa. They're not the same nor do they share a "common culture."

[b]What should be considered most offensive to Africans is the myth that they're "all the same" and denying their ethnic diversity.

very well said and worth repeating....

[This message has been edited by fareed (edited 01 June 2005).][/B]

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I didn't say the Egyptians were Black. I said they were African. I also clearly said that the modern day Egyptians are a mixed race of people. I then went further to use an example of another similar culture (the Aztecs who also built an amazing empire) that has been completely swallowed up by foreigners and actually prefers to be considered of foreign heritage than of native (ie: preference for light skin) or at least likes to be identified as of the same race as the foreign element. The same is true in Egypt where you have people claiming to be Caucausian.

I remember an anthropology class in college where the teacher announced the new classification of East Indian people as Caucausian. I watched in amazment as cheers erupted from several Indian people.

Those groups of people that have been colonized and dominated by Europeans have also been put into a European caste system that has become part of their culture. Those societies, that have not been colonized by Europeans (Sudan, Ethiopia) have people that are proud to be considered Black (no awareness of the European caste system). However, I do not define people as Black of White, etc. I define people based on lineage. You are either related to Cro-magnon or Kenyanoid, Mundoid, Negritoid, etc. As far as Egyptians are concerned, they have an origin from the South (not from the East or from Eurasia). Their culture can be traced down the Nile and not up it. Consequently their ancestry can be traced to the same group of people as Ethiopians and Somalians and not Neaderthal or Cromagnon.

Your ancestors were elongated and tropically adapted Africans. Sort of a Dark Brownish Red. Black is a political term. In terms of politics, today, calling yourself Black has many benefits. Won't help you get citizenship in America though, but if you are already here, it well help you financially and politically. I would imagine that Egyptians claiming to be Black would be embraced by Black people. However, those same Egyptians calling themselves white would find that Whites will not accept them and Blacks will scorn them.

posted 01 June 2005 02:44 PM            

The Father of the Afrocentric movement: W.E.B DuBois.

Fareed,

Is this man not an Egyptian? Is he Black?
http://www.virginia.edu/history/courses/fall.97/hius323/dubois.html