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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Medosa: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by ExptinCAI: [b]Medusa, Trying to throw criminal law (based as we here in ES learned on the napoleonic code) and family law (as we learned based on Islamic law) together only shows that you are not as much of an expert as you claim. [QUOTE][/b] Oh dear!. My dear I talked about Egyptian law as it is. There was/is no reason what so ever to make that distinction in the discussion we have here, what purpose would it serve?. Because we are talking about the law as it is, not as what it was derived from, it would just be waffle. More over all my examples, with the exception of the military service, which is not a criminal law concern anyway, are entirly based on (crimes) defined in Islamic law!, namely blasphamy, homosexuality outlawed, practicing certain religions outlawed. So what on earth are you talking about ? or do you just want to attack or show off? [QUOTE][b]I think you may be a little confused as to the legal term of “egyptian woman” that you so enthusiastically and carelessly interject into your posts. A female foreigner married in Egypt is not legally deemed an “egyptian woman” by any legal system.Neither does she obtain automatic egyptian citizenship by marriage. [QUOTE][/b] Can you show me where did I say that she would be deemed Egyptian?. Just read carefully, what I said was that once she is married to an Egyptian, for the purpose of family law , she is TREATED exactly LIKE an Egyptian woman. Not deemed to be Egyptian , nor would she automatically aquire the nationality either!!! So who is confused here ? [QUOTE][b]Any person on a particular country’s soil is subject to that country’s laws. That is a universal given and the only objections to those rules are military/diplomatic immunities, wars, etc. Now that we agree on this basic point, let us try to make sense of your scenario of criminal and family law. let’s hypothesize. If a foreigner murders on Egyptian soil, he/she is subject to punishment by Egyptian laws. Agreed. [QUOTE][/b] Not a matter for differences, since it is not really relevant, but let us carry on, OK agreed, but the scenario that follows is yours not mine! [QUOTE][b]If a foreigner staying in a Cairo hotel orders his wife (also a foreigner) to stay inside the room and under no circumstances can she leave Egypt without his authorization - thereby invoking the family law of the land - according to you he is entitled to call the local police and they - again under egyptian law - must detain her and order her to comply with her husband’s wishes. [QUOTE][/b] OH dear OH dear OH dear! No NO NO and NO, that is total nonsense, I did not say or imply that at all. I almost feel it would be useless to explain, since I am afraid you either did not understand anything I said, or you are purposefully being obtuse. However I will just this once go along and explain further. A foreign man (specially a non Muslim), would not be able to envoke Egyptian family law, simply because he is not Egyptian. Add to this, that you said his wife is not Egyptian either. So how on earth did you deduce that I said or meant that ? [QUOTE][b]She - by islamic law - cannot simply go to the airport and use her foreign passport to exit Egypt legally (on the foreign visa she obtained when entering Egypt.) [QUOTE][/b] Again nonsense, did not say or imply anything of the sort. No darling, she can come and go as she pleases, because her husband is not Egyptian, so he is unable to envoke Egyptian family law. There is also another reason, to be able to envoke Egyptian family law, you have to be married under that law. What that means is, even if both are Egyptian but get married outside Egypt, (The Egyptian embassy, or diplomatic mission however is deemed to be Egyptian soil), and did not authinticate this marriage either via the Egyptian embassy or in Egypt, the Egyptian family law cannot be envoked even inside Egypt. [QUOTE][b]Oh no. Once she steps on the egyptian soil, she is subject to egyptian laws. Well yes. She IS subject to Egyptian laws and by accepting a visa, every visitor promised to comply by those laws and not break them. Er. Personally, I would love to be the police captain to receive such a call from a foreigner - I would have the best story to tell in the cafe for the rest of my life. [QUOTE][/b] Never said any such rubbish. It shows total lack of comprehension. [QUOTE][b]Medusa, again you need to recognize that we are speaking about (1) foreign nationals residing in Egypt. NOT DUAL CITIZENS. (2) Egypt is not Saudi Arabia. Two foreigners in Egypt would not be subject to follow Egypt’s family law. What makes you so sure one foreigner would? (Again keep in mind we’re not speaking of dual nationality and marriage does not give you egyptian citizenship.) [/b][/QUOTE] I do not think I will ever get you to understand, but here it goes. Envoking Egyptian family law does or does not apply as follows: Both of the married couple are foreigners, Muslim or not, it does not apply. One foreign man, Muslim , married to an Egyptian woman, Muslim or not, applies only if married under Egyptian law. One foreign non Muslim man, married to a non Muslim woman, does not apply. One Foreign woman, Muslim or not, married to an Egyptian MUSLIM man, it applies. Both Egyptians, and the man is Muslim, of course it does apply. Both Egyptians and non Muslims, it does not apply. My dear , that is it, believe me or not , it does not matter to me. Now I am convinced that you did not understand a thing. So if you are not pulling my leg, .....no I will not say anymore Goodbye [This message has been edited by Medosa (edited 19 October 2005).] [/QB][/QUOTE]
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