posted
Vigilantes kill 40 women in Iraq's south By SINAN SALAHEDDIN, Associated Press Writer Sun Dec 9, 6:14 PM ET
BAGHDAD - Religious vigilantes have killed at least 40 women this year in the southern Iraqi city of Basra because of how they dressed, their mutilated bodies found with notes warning against "violating Islamic teachings," the police chief said Sunday.
Maj. Gen. Jalil Khalaf blamed sectarian groups that he said were trying to impose a strict interpretation of Islam. They dispatch patrols of motorbikes or unlicensed cars with tinted windows to accost women not wearing traditional dress and head scarves, he added.
"The women of Basra are being horrifically murdered and then dumped in the garbage with notes saying they were killed for un-Islamic behavior," Khalaf told The Associated Press. He said men with Western clothes or haircuts are also attacked in Basra, an oil-rich city some 30 miles from the Iranian border and 340 miles southeast of Baghdad.
"Those who are behind these atrocities are organized gangs who work under cover of religion, pretending to spread the instructions of Islam, but they are far from this religion," Khalaf said.
Throughout Iraq, many women wear a headscarf and others wear a full face veil although secular women are often unveiled. Since the overthrow of Saddam Hussein and the rise of a Shiite-dominated government, armed men in some parts of the country have sometimes forced women to cover their heads or face punishment. In some areas of the heavily Shiite south, even Christian women have been forced to wear headscarves.
Before the U.S.-led invasion in 2003, Basra, Iraq's second-largest city, was known for its mixed population and night life. Now, in some areas, red graffiti threatens any woman who wears makeup and appears with her hair uncovered: "Your makeup and your decision to forgo the headscarf will bring you death."
Khalaf said bodies have been found in garbage dumps with bullet holes, decapitated or otherwise mutilated with a sheet of paper nearby saying, "she was killed for adultery," or "she was killed for violating Islamic teachings." In September, the headless bodies of a woman and her 6-year-old son were among those found, he said. A total of 40 deaths were reported this year.
"We believe the number of murdered women is much higher, as cases go unreported by their families who fear reprisal from extremists," he said.
Harith al-Ithari, who works in the Basra offices of the Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, said the conservative religious movement opposed the killings and blamed "gangs with foreign support to destabilize the city."
"There is a concrete religious principle that says that wearing makeup and forgoing the hijab (headscarf) in public is a sin," al-Ithari said. "But killing them is a sin bigger than this one."
i do wonder if these people ever actually read Quran or whether they just listen to what some guy tells them is in it, combined with hadith of course.
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posted
I don’t know why you posted ‘Islamist’ in the title because these are not Islamist but rather terrorists. I saw several amateur films by Iraqis, all of which dealt with the deteriorating situation in Iraq. At the screening one of the films was titled ‘women of Iraq’ and it was basically a documentary.
One woman while breaking out in tears talks about her neighbor (another Iraqi woman). These women have no means and so to make ends meet they rent rooms in their homes. Apparently with all the destruction and the unavailability of hotels – accommodation is in great demand. Anyway!
A man rents a room from her neighbor – and he leaves the next day. So he stayed there overnight – then following day he gives the woman a luggage (hand bag) for her to hold for him. He told her he would be back in the evening.
The man never came back. So the bag is in this ladies house for a couple of days and the most abhorrent smell was coming out of it. So she calls her neighbors and tells them that a man rented a room from her and left this bag with her but never came back. And this bag is giving out the most awful odor. So she asks them what to do.
The neighbors decided to open the bag and in it was the head of the woman’s son. This haywan this god damn animal this bloody devil – rented a room from the lady, stayed there 1 night and left her a bag which had her son’s head in it. These are monsters – evil – uncompassionate monsters.
There is so much but you guys get the point – these are not Muslims – they are out of the realm of islam with their barbarity and evil and sadly Islamophobes like undercover can not differentiate because he is conditioned to hate muslims hence failing each and every time to comprehend the difference. The woman is a Muslim the man who did that is not. Sadly people like Ayisha is also a victim of such ignorance by posting such an ayah when it does not reflect the situation. She is also giving credibility to such monsters by making it seem like they are Muslim who are illegally enforcing Islamic Law - which is not the case.
They are not Muslims hence this ayah does not pertain to them.
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quote:Originally posted by Exiled: I don’t know why you posted ‘Islamist’ in the title because these are not Islamist but rather terrorists.
Now if only some Muslims could convince the killers of that.
The terrorists continue to leave notes apealing to Islamic teachings as the justification for their killings because they know they are on a safe ground as long as they do that. More over, if any Muslim tries to stop them, will be tagged as "non-Muslim", and his killing would be "Allah's will".
So basically, Muslim terrorrists can't loose as long as they apeal to Islam.
Posts: 3188 | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Thanks Exiled but I posted that so as not to go into a long screaming post of what I really think (not saying yours IS but you said what I wanted to.)
You say these are not Muslim and are terrorists, which I fully agree with, but they 'claim' to be doing this in the name of Islam, as do many other barbaric assholes, for want of a better word!
Having been accused of not being 'muslim' on this board previously and am condemned to hell fire, I will not take it upon myself to decide who is or not a muslim, thats not my place thats Allahs only. But these terrorists DO think they are and they DO think this is how Islam should be...enforced on people. It's happening all over, even HERE. So really that ayat does have reference here and we have been told recently on another thread that only means until you accept Islam, but stops as soon as you are Muslim and there IS compulsion! People Do really think this twisted way.
Give me the beauty of the Islam in Quran but I disassociate myself with the 'Islam of men!'
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
The only way to stop radicalism and terror today is to get the religious leadership to change their theology and stop interpreting the Quran literally, and to flat-out reject the terrorists interpretation. Instead, they either tacitly support the terrorists' theological views on Islam (apostacy, adultery etc) or pretend it doesn't exist. How do you convince a terrorist that murdering people is un-islamic when all five major schools of Islamic jurisprudence agree that a sane male apostate must be executed?
Posts: 3188 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Undercover: The only way to stop radicalism and terror today is to get the religious leadership to change their theology and stop interpreting the Quran literally, and to flat-out reject the terrorists interpretation. Instead, they either tacitly support the terrorists' theological views on Islam (apostacy, adultery etc) or pretend it doesn't exist. How do you convince a terrorist that murdering people is un-islamic when all five major schools of Islamic jurisprudence agree that a sane male apostate must be executed?
Undercover:
1.Are we Muslims are supposed to take your interpretation of Al-Islaam as the right Al-Islaam seeing that you are not even a Muslim?
2. Are we to follow you or the authenic ahadeeth of the Prophet Muhammad salallahu alayhi wassalaam?
Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Undercover: The only way to stop radicalism and terror today is to get the religious leadership to change their theology and stop interpreting the Quran literally, and to flat-out reject the terrorists interpretation. Instead, they either tacitly support the terrorists' theological views on Islam (apostacy, adultery etc) or pretend it doesn't exist. How do you convince a terrorist that murdering people is un-islamic when all five major schools of Islamic jurisprudence agree that a sane male apostate must be executed?
In my opinion its not that they are interpreting Quran literally, its that they are not looking at it at all!! Most of the rediculous stuff is from hadith and they will try to justify it with Quran. Many people, as we have seen, do not even try Quran as they are told that you cant understand it without hadith, which is rubbish in my opinion. The Quran tells you not to kill, as does the previous Books, it tells you if you kill one then the punishment is as if you have killed the whole of mankind. They have that to come! The Quran tells you there is no compulsion in religion, Allah knows whats in everyones heart and He dishes out the punishments, not us! But the hadith followers dont read those bits, they would rather read hadith that tell them its ok to kill anyone thats not muslim and to force women to wear certain clothing, there is nothing in Quran about that either, the best hijab is PIETY.
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-------------------- 'Abdullah bin 'Umar said, "Allah's Apostle (صلى الله عليه و سلم) took hold of my shoulder and said, "Be in this world as if you were a stranger or a traveller." Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: bosom. Cover your boobs!
That's not what Ayesha bint Abi bakr said and did! when that ayat was revealed..so I would say WRONG ANSWER!
When Allah revealed:
"And to draw their veils all over their Juyubihinna" they tore their Muruts ( a wollen dress, or a waist-binding cloth or apron) and covered ther heads and faces with those torn Muruts. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Hadith No.4758)
Narrated Safiyyah bint Shairbah: 'Aishah used to say: 'When the Verse: "And to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (V.24:31) was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their heads and faces with those cut peices of cloth.' (Sahih al-Bukhari, Hadith No.4759)
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Most of the rediculous stuff is from hadith and they will try to justify it with Quran.
Unfortunately, Quran is not a book like other books that you could read it by itself and understand it. The Quran was written in an expanse of 23 years. Each verse of that book is “revealed” in conjunction to a specific occasion. You cannot understand that book if you do not know about those occasions. The occasion for the revelation of the quranic verses are called Sha’ne Nozool. You have to know the history of Islam, or at least the history of Muhammad to understand when and why those verses were “revealed” or you cannot claim to know the Quran. Without knowing the when and why those verses make no sense. Thus, despite its repeated claim, Quran is not a clear book and cannot be understood without the Ahadith.
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: Most of the rediculous stuff is from hadith and they will try to justify it with Quran.
Unfortunately, Quran is not a book like other books that you could read it by itself and understand it. The Quran was written in an expanse of 23 years. Each verse of that book is “revealed” in conjunction to a specific occasion. You cannot understand that book if you do not know about those occasions. The occasion for the revelation of the quranic verses are called Sha’ne Nozool. You have to know the history of Islam, or at least the history of Muhammad to understand when and why those verses were “revealed” or you cannot claim to know the Quran. Without knowing the when and why those verses make no sense. Thus, despite its repeated claim, Quran is not a clear book and cannot be understood without the Ahadith.
I think I'm rubbing off on you because you're starting to sound like me..keep it up. You're almost there!
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If ye two turn in repentance to Him, your hearts are indeed so inclined; But if ye back up each other against him, truly Allah is his Protector, and Gabriel, and (every) righteous one among those who believe,- and furthermore, the angels - will back (him) up. sura 66.4
Who is Muhammad talking about? Who are these two he is referring to and asking to repent? This is not clear in the Quran. This can only be understood if you read the Hadith and learn about the Sha’ne Nozool of that Surah. Here is the Hadith that explains that verse:
Bukhari Volume 3, Book 43, Number 648: Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Abbas: I had been eager to ask 'Umar about the two ladies from among the wives of the Prophet regarding whom Allah said (in the Qur'an saying): If you two (wives of the Prophet namely Aisha and Hafsa) turn in repentance to Allah your hearts are indeed so inclined (to oppose what the Prophet likes) (66.4), till performed the Hajj along with 'Umar (and on our way back from Hajj) he went aside (to answer the call of nature) and I also went aside along with him carrying a tumbler of water. When he had answered the call of nature and returned. I poured water on his hands from the tumbler and he performed ablution. I said, "O Chief of the believers! ' Who were the two ladies from among the wives of the Prophet to whom Allah said:
'If you two return in repentance (66.4)? He said, "I am astonished at your question, O Ibn 'Abbas. They were Aisha and Hafsa."
This is just an example. Without the Hadith Quran remains a confusing book that would make no sense to anyone.
Furthermore, Salat (prayers) Sawm (fast), Zakat (charity) and Hajj (pilgrimage) are four of the five pillars of Islam. You cannot know how to perform these essential rituals without referring to the Hadith. There are no verses in the Quran that tell you how to perform your Salat, Sawm or Hajj.
As you see, despite the fact that you do not like many of the Hadiths, despite the fact that they embarrass you as they reveal many unflattering truths about Muhammad, you cannot get rid of the Hadiths. They are essential to Islam as is the Quran. It is through these Hadiths that we know who was Muhammad, who was his father and who was his mother, how he lived his childhood and what did he do when he grew up. How he started his prophetic carrier and how his religion grew. Those information are not contained in the Quran. They can only be found in the Hadith, Sirat-e Rassoul and other early books of history such as al Waqidi and al Tabari. These books are not the revelations of God. They are written by ordinary men, but without them the Quran becomes meaningless.
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posted
Ayisha is that true? Without the ahadeeth the Quran becomes meaningless?
I don't think you will agree with that statement do you? She is basically saying that you can't understand the Quran without ahadeeth.
She sorta proves her point with the above quote. Do you disagree?..If so, who were the two women Allah was speaking of and please provide reference a verse from the Quran that tell us who the two women were!
-------------------- 'Abdullah bin 'Umar said, "Allah's Apostle (صلى الله عليه و سلم) took hold of my shoulder and said, "Be in this world as if you were a stranger or a traveller." Posts: 2342 | From: Its not where I'm from but where Im going | Registered: Jul 2007
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