posted
Hi, I have a question, would love to only get honest answer.
1- if your loved one called you on the phone and told you that there is one Pepsi and one 7up in the fridge, and asked you to only drink one, and that one is the................
you lost connection....
your facts is. - you really love this person, even more than your self
-this peson will be upset if you do the wrong action, drink none, drink wrong one or drink both
- you do not have the means to contact this person
- you are thirsty
What would you do 1- pick one based on your guess 2- do not drink any 3- wait for that person to call back 4- drink both 5- ??? any body has a better solution???
posted
If you love that person that much and we assume they love you as much, they will forgive you no matter what your choice, if you're talking about something as trivial as soft drinks. If you are talking about your soul being thirsty and you are looking for living water, you need to go to the Lord in prayer and ask His guidance because that connection is always open. You won't find it on a forum such as this as the matter is too important for trivial talk. Jesus told the woman at the well, "Everyone who drinks of this water shall thirst again, but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst but the water that I shall give him shall become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life." (John 4:13-14) Christ loves you Pito and He wants to ease your burden and give you relief from your doubt. All you have to do is put your faith in Him. God bless you today and always.
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Knowing the dangers in both Pepsi and 7 up, and that my loved one would not want to harm me, I would assume that there had been interference on the line from before it was cut. As I was thirsty I would drink filtered water or fruit juice and when my loved one came home I would explain why I had moved the two bottles out of the fridge to make space for nutritious food.
posted
I dont know how you have the patience Nilewatcher. I am finding it increasingly difficult to talk religion to these people as if I were dealing with children in a primary school. I had years of dealing with the Jehovahs Witnesses with the same kind of stupid mentality, and quite frankly its better to pass them bye or they will delude their egos. Charlie
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quote:Originally posted by sokarya_686@hotmail.com: I dont know how you have the patience Nilewatcher. I am finding it increasingly difficult to talk religion to these people as if I were dealing with children in a primary school. I had years of dealing with the Jehovahs Witnesses with the same kind of stupid mentality, and quite frankly its better to pass them bye or they will delude their egos. Charlie
Only God can change people's hearts, Charlie. All I can do is live my faith day by day.
You're not here by accident. Jesus loves you, and He wants you to have a personal relationship with Him. There is just one thing that separates you from God. That one thing is sin.
People tend to divide themselves into groups - good people and bad people. But God says that every person that has ever lived is a sinner, and any sin separates us from God. That includes you and me.
"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23
According to man's rules, people should be punished or rewarded according to how good they are, and it might be hard for you to understand how Jesus could love you when other people don't seem to. But I have great news for you! Jesus DOES love you! More than you can ever imagine! And there's nothing you can do to make him stop!
Are you thinking that you should make things right in your life before you come to Jesus? Many people feel that way, but that's not what God says!
"God demonstrates His own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8
For you to come to God you have to get rid of your sin problem. But God says that you can't make yourself right with God by being a better person. God wants to save you JUST BECAUSE HE LOVES YOU!
"He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of His mercy." Titus 3:5
It's God's grace that allows you to come to Him - not your efforts to "clean up your life" or work your way to Heaven. You can't earn it. It's a free gift.
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
For you to come to God, your sin must be paid for. God's gift to you is His son, Jesus, who paid the debt for you.
"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23
Jesus paid the price for your sin and mine by giving His life on Calvary's cross. God brought Jesus back from the dead and paved the way for you to have a personal relationship with Him through Jesus.
All that's left for you to do is to accept the gift that Jesus is holding out for you right now.
"If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved." Romans 10:9-10
God says that if you believe in His son, Jesus, you can live forever with Him in glory.
"For God so loved the world that He gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life." John 3:16
Are you ready to accept the gift of eternal life that Jesus is offering you right now? If it is your sincere desire to ask Jesus to come into your heart as your personal Lord and Savior, then talk to God from your heart through the Sinner's Prayer:
Sinner's Prayer
"Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner and I do not deserve eternal life. But, I believe You died and rose from the grave to purchase a place in Heaven for me. Jesus, come into my life, take control of my life, forgive my sins and save me. I am now placing my trust in You alone for my salvation and I accept your free gift of eternal life."
posted
As I told you Nile watcher, they think the Jesus story is a myth. Well, in one sense, of course it is, and in another sense it isnt. The problem or them is, being Islamic, is that the Koran came exactly from the same source as the Bible, only 6OO or so years later. This, they totally deny, which of course means they are in denial. When a person is in denial it is very difficult to get through to them, and its even difficult for someone like me with all the training in the world. Frankly, its a waste of time.
The tragic thing is, they want to be loved and accepted, but have been indoctrinated to the point where you cant get past the red light. They want to be intellectual and philosophical, but their superstitious beliefs wont allow it. Charlie.
quote:Originally posted by Pito: any comment on that [URL=http://www.bobkwebsite.com/krishnajesusmyths.html]
No Pito. I have no need to debate falsehoods from atheist sites. I only feel sadness for those who are misled by them and are going to spend enternal life separated from God because the only unpardonable sin is to turn away from God. Jesus said, "He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters. Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age or in the age to come. (Matthew 12:30-32)
There have always been false teachings and those who seek to tear down the Bible and Jesus Christ and there will always be. Jesus said, "It is inevitable that stumbling blocks should come but woe to him through whom they come. It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea than that he should cause one of these little ones to stumble." (Luke 17:1-2)
But isn't it amazing that a humble nobody carpenter from nowhere in the backwoods of the Roman empire, who only preached for three years, who never traveled more than 100 miles from home as an adult, who was illegally charged and tried, and finally crucified like a criminal to silence him and his disciples managed to transform the world. Only God can do that.
[This message has been edited by Nile Watcher (edited 07 January 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by Nile Watcher: How to Become A Christian
You're not here by accident. Jesus loves you, and He wants you to have a personal relationship with Him. There is just one thing that separates you from God. That one thing is sin.
People tend to divide themselves into groups - good people and bad people. But God says that every person that has ever lived is a sinner, and any sin separates us from God. That includes you and me.
"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23
According to man's rules, people should be punished or rewarded according to how good they are, and it might be hard for you to understand how Jesus could love you when other people don't seem to. But I have great news for you! Jesus DOES love you! More than you can ever imagine! And there's nothing you can do to make him stop!
Are you thinking that you should make things right in your life before you come to Jesus? Many people feel that way, but that's not what God says!
"God demonstrates His own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8
For you to come to God you have to get rid of your sin problem. But God says that you can't make yourself right with God by being a better person. God wants to save you JUST BECAUSE HE LOVES YOU!
"He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of His mercy." Titus 3:5
It's God's grace that allows you to come to Him - not your efforts to "clean up your life" or work your way to Heaven. You can't earn it. It's a free gift.
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
For you to come to God, your sin must be paid for. God's gift to you is His son, Jesus, who paid the debt for you.
"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23
Jesus paid the price for your sin and mine by giving His life on Calvary's cross. God brought Jesus back from the dead and paved the way for you to have a personal relationship with Him through Jesus.
All that's left for you to do is to accept the gift that Jesus is holding out for you right now.
"If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved." Romans 10:9-10
God says that if you believe in His son, Jesus, you can live forever with Him in glory.
"For God so loved the world that He gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life." John 3:16
Are you ready to accept the gift of eternal life that Jesus is offering you right now? If it is your sincere desire to ask Jesus to come into your heart as your personal Lord and Savior, then talk to God from your heart through the Sinner's Prayer:
Sinner's Prayer
"Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner and I do not deserve eternal life. But, I believe You died and rose from the grave to purchase a place in Heaven for me. Jesus, come into my life, take control of my life, forgive my sins and save me. I am now placing my trust in You alone for my salvation and I accept your free gift of eternal life."
Christians and Jews both went extremly far on opposite sides, One side almost neglecting the importance of faith and another almost neglecting deeds. In Islam faith accompained with good deeds that helps you.
God knew befor creating us that as free creatures it will be very possible that we will sin however as a merciful forgiving God he gave us chances to repenet and come back to him .yet we do agree that our deeds alone are not enough that's why he said " “And If God/Allah were to seize humankind for their wrongdoing, he would not leave on the earth a single living creature, but he postpones them for an appointed term”. Qura’n chapter 16 verses 61.
I alwayes found the Christian idea about God's justice and mercy to be silly ( in a funny way) it's like me renting a flat then screwing up and not being able to pay the rent, the owner comes to me saying "Oh man you don't have to pay really it's ok" I say"wow what a gentle man you are!" he says "Yes I forgive you coz I love you but hey wait! the rules here says that you must pay the rent what can I do now!" I say "Oh man who put those rules?" he says "Me of course and now I don't know what to do!" then I see a sparke in his eyes, suddenly he jumps up and says " I got a brilliant idea! we will trick my rules" I say "trick your rules?you mean trick you?hehe" he says " I will give some money to my son and he will come here pretending to be paying for you" I say"wow YOU ARE SOMETHING MAN!"
This is how you protray God as some confused guy who is trapped in his own rules but to me God is not saddistic god who is so in love with punishment and blood, rather when he forgives it means he becomes unwilling to get a pay from anyone and he would never inflict pain on innocent person even if it's his own son for the bad deeds of another person. this is not justice nor it's part of mercy.
What's worse is why Father sending his son not vice versa? does the son love us more than the father does?or does the father love us more than his son? If i see my son diying i would go help him not send him to death unless we were just pretending all of us which is silly.
Cheers
[This message has been edited by Troubles101 (edited 08 January 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by sokarya_686@hotmail.com: As I told you Nile watcher, they think the Jesus story is a myth. Well, in one sense, of course it is, and in another sense it isnt. The problem or them is, being Islamic, is that the Koran came exactly from the same source as the Bible, only 6OO or so years later. This, they totally deny, which of course means they are in denial. When a person is in denial it is very difficult to get through to them, and its even difficult for someone like me with all the training in the world. Frankly, its a waste of time.
The tragic thing is, they want to be loved and accepted, but have been indoctrinated to the point where you cant get past the red light. They want to be intellectual and philosophical, but their superstitious beliefs wont allow it. Charlie.
Took you so long to know us betetr man!
Your time is so precious and it's really waste of time dealing with people love living in denial such as Moslims!
Speaking of Philosophy you probably have no idea about who brought it to you guys in europ!
posted
Hello TroubleslOl, I completely accept your point of view as to how you see the Christian Faith. However, it is only fair to say that this is only your opinion from someone outside the Faith. If I were to ask someone in the Christian Faith, the answer would not appear anything like yours.
The only reason I can see for this is that you perhaps have been given a false impression by those with little or no understanding of the Faith. It could be that with your training and instruction in the Koran that you are not able to see outside your own sphere of "knowledge" and "experience" Many Christians could also be accused of having a similar potted view of Islam. Exchanging ideas, therefore, is a good thing, but condemning is not for one will broaden the mind, the other will narrow it. Charlie.
quote:Originally posted by Troubles101: This is how you protray God as some confused guy who is trapped in his own rules but to me God is not saddistic god who is so in love with punishment and blood, rather when he forgives it means he becomes unwilling to get a pay from anyone and he would never inflict pain on innocent person even if it's his own son for the bad deeds of another person. this is not justice nor it's part of mercy.
What's worse is why Father sending his son not vice versa? does the son love us more than the father does?or does the father love us more than his son? If i see my son diying i would go help him not send him to death unless we were just pretending all of us which is silly.
Cheers
Just as Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son in love and obediance to God, so God was willing to sacrifice His only son for love for us. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world but that the world should be saved through Him." (John 3:16-17)
Troubles what parent does not want to help his children? What parent, seeing his children in danger would not try to save them, even to the point of giving his own life in place of his childrens lives? That is what Christ did for us. He died in our place when we were in danger of death and separation from God forever through sin. He did this so we would repent and know enternal life with God. He died because he loved us that much.
But that's not the end of it. Death has no meaning to God. Jesus was resurrected on the third day to prove to mankind that God has control over death, not Satan. That God can do anything. It did not matter to Jesus that he faced death on the cross because he knew he would be rised from the dead and return to Heaven. His suffering represented the suffering mankind experiences through sin. His death the enternal death of people lost in sin. His resurrection the joy and hope that mankind can be saved from sin and be reconciled to God.
No one could have taken Jesus if He did not wish it. When the soldiers came to arrest him and the disciples drew swords to fight them, He told them to put their swords away and said: "Do you think that I cannot appeal to My Father and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels? How then shall the Scriptures be fulfilled that it must happen this way?" (Matthew 26:53-54)
And God is not some kindly grandfather figure who pats people on the head and says "do whatever you want and I'll still take you to heaven." When a person accepts Christ they will want to turn away from their old life of sin and do good works. We are saved by faith but we do good works because that pleases God. And the Bible says your reward in Heaven will be based upon your good works.
posted
Dear Nile Watcher: A slave must obey the king order even if the order hurt his own family..but the king never obey the slaves to hurt his prophet just for logical reason...GOD created the univerce !! GOD created the fire hot&burn ..but..he made it cold and peace on sayedna Abraham when he was thrown in...as he is his prophet . GOD created the knife to cut and hurt but for sayedena ismaiel he made it with no power of cutting...as he is his prophet SO GOD has the power to protect his prophet jesus also..even if he was crosed And you said it by your self " what parent does not want to help his children? What parent, seeing his children in danger would not try to save them, even to the point of giving his own life in place of his childrens lives?"So what about the God not the parents!! So why to sacrify the prophet to save the sinners when i have the power to save him and forgive them???i don't get this.. ok my point is the teacher duty is to teach ..the student who study succeed who not failed...the teacher is punished if not teach well but not if the students not study what she taught them!! And As you said also God is not some kindly grandfather figure who pats people on the head and says "do whatever you want and I'll still take you to heaven." When a person accepts Christ they will want to turn away from their old life of sin and do good works. We are saved by faith but we do good works because that pleases God. And the Bible says your reward in Heaven will be based upon your good works.so what was the reason of the prophet suffering for the sake of sinners when the reward will depend on their work..i can be with you in suffer for teaching but suffer to carry sins of his followers!!!
posted
I dont usually quote from the gospels. Jesus said: "If the flesh came into being because of the spirit, that is a marvel, but if spirit came into being because of the body, that is a marevel of marvels. Yet I marvel at how this great wealth has come to dwell in this poverty."
posted
An honest person has no need to search for the truth Pito, Truth is honesty, and if he is honest he already has both. Saint Charlie
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There are two kind of arguments here, One that's applying logic only and the other is by useing scripture and in order to avoid confusing both of them I will stick to logical arguments first then quoting scripture whether Qur'an or bible to support my argument will be later:
quote:Originally posted by Nile Watcher: [B] Just as Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son in love and obediance to God, so God was willing to sacrifice His only son for love for us. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world but that the world should be saved through Him." (John 3:16-17)
Abraham prefered to have his ownself killed instead of his son but God command and test to Abraham was harder. Tell me honestly if Abraham had the option to choose and as loving father wouldn't he choose to have himself dead rather than having his son dead? but it was not up to Abraham to choose as it was God's command which both Abraham and Ishmael submitted to . On the other hand God the Father who had all options prefered to send his own son to die for others instead of protecting his son and do the act himself which makes Abraham more loving father than your god the father.
Another point, Abraham's options were limited he simply as human being was weak and helpless under the power of God but God has no God so his options are greater and he could simply not getting his son killed and at same time forgive. Is forgivness not a part of your God Personality? and how can forgivness be orgivness if someone will have to pay and who Jesus was paying to? he simply paid to God which means that God instead of becoming unwilling for being paid and forgive he simply prefer to get an innocent sould suffering for sins of the whole world which is completly against justice and mercy.
quote:Troubles what parent does not want to help his children? What parent, seeing his children in danger would not try to save them, even to the point of giving his own life in place of his childrens lives?
Then why didn't your "The Father" do the same with his own "The son" he totally did the opposite which means he is not loving father to his own son and if he can't be truely loving father to his son then it's hypocritical to expect him to love us.
quote:That is what Christ did for us. He died in our place when we were in danger of death and separation from God forever through sin. He did this so we would repent and know enternal life with God. He died because he loved us that much.
Again with the helpless god who can't forgive unless getting someone paying no matter who. yoiur God must be subimitting to another God's rules?
[This message has been edited by Troubles101 (edited 09 January 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by sokarya_686@hotmail.com: Hello TroubleslOl, I completely accept your point of view as to how you see the Christian Faith. However, it is only fair to say that this is only your opinion from someone outside the Faith. If I were to ask someone in the Christian Faith, the answer would not appear anything like yours.
The only reason I can see for this is that you perhaps have been given a false impression by those with little or no understanding of the Faith. It could be that with your training and instruction in the Koran that you are not able to see outside your own sphere of "knowledge" and "experience" Many Christians could also be accused of having a similar potted view of Islam. Exchanging ideas, therefore, is a good thing, but condemning is not for one will broaden the mind, the other will narrow it. Charlie.
There is alwayes common middle groun where we all meet called "common sense" and if you can't meet me there then you are the one who got a problem. It's unreasonable to assume somone being outside the faith can't for any reason understand it unless the faith not to be understood but only to be believed in which will make it silly to exchange ideas.
posted
Hello TroubleslOl, Common sense doesnt come into Faith, neither does common ground. If common sense came into the Koran, then Jesus would have risen after his 3 days of suffering and not 3 days before it. (which doesnt make any sense at all either literally nor allegorically). Common ground simply means that you are neither in one camp nor the other, or put another way - confused! Faith is not confusion. Therefore one is not saved by common sense, nor by confusion, but by Faith. Charlie
Posts: 707 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
troubles I understand your post about the loving father and son thing but you forget the christian belief that the Father IS also the Son too. So that would mean the father loving himself as the son and saving the son from death as the father
posted
Should be the discussion about people loving people, people want to help people. In this case people should try to help people to find the right path not the path they beleive in. there is abig difference if you beleive on one path and try just to convince others with that and if you really listen to their thoughts and think about it as well, you could be wrong your self!!. As you think you are right 100% others also think they are right 100%. that means you possibly could be wrong.
quote:Originally posted by Troubles101: [Abraham prefered to have his ownself killed instead of his son but God command and test to Abraham was harder. Tell me honestly if Abraham had the option to choose and as loving father wouldn't he choose to have himself dead rather than having his son dead? but it was not up to Abraham to choose as it was God's command which both Abraham and Ishmael submitted to . On the other hand God the Father who had all options prefered to send his own son to die for others instead of protecting his son and do the act himself which makes Abraham more loving father than your god the father.
Another point, Abraham's options were limited he simply as human being was weak and helpless under the power of God but God has no God so his options are greater and he could simply not getting his son killed and at same time forgive. Is forgivness not a part of your God Personality? and how can forgivness be orgivness if someone will have to pay and who Jesus was paying to? he simply paid to God which means that God instead of becoming unwilling for being paid and forgive he simply prefer to get an innocent sould suffering for sins of the whole world which is completly against justice and mercy.
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Troubles what parent does not want to help his children? What parent, seeing his children in danger would not try to save them, even to the point of giving his own life in place of his childrens lives? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then why didn't your "The Father" do the same with his own "The son" he totally did the opposite which means he is not loving father to his own son and if he can't be truely loving father to his son then it's hypocritical to expect him to love us.
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That is what Christ did for us. He died in our place when we were in danger of death and separation from God forever through sin. He did this so we would repent and know enternal life with God. He died because he loved us that much. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Again with the helpless god who can't forgive unless getting someone paying no matter who. yoiur God must be subimitting to another God's rules?
]
God is always in control, Troubles, and nothing is impossible with God. There is only One God. You are viewing this in terms of an earthly father and earthly son. God allows things to happen for His own purpose and in His own time. If He had allowed Abraham to sacifice his son then the son would have been lost and the hope of generations to come afterwards. Man was separated from God after Adam sinned as God is too perfect to look upon sin. The price of sin is enteral death and separation from God. The peoples of the Old Testament were required to atone for their sins through the blood sacifice of an unblemished animal. (and there is more to it but too much to write here) But the people still sinned and turned away from the prophets and God. So the Spirit of God came down as Christ Jesus - fully God and fully Man.
He showed us the way to enternal life with God and that death has no meaning and is nothing to fear. WE are the children in danger of dying and HE gave his life for us to teach us how to live.
Jesus said: "No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father." (John 10:18) But He rose from death on the third day to show that God is in control and is not weak. So the Son was not lost and there is hope for all the generations.
Christ died as atonement for our sins, Troubles, but each person is still accountable for their own sins. God gave each of us free will. We believe that to use this great gift Christ gave us, each person must repent of their sins of their own accord and declare their faith in Christ and live as he taught us.
I know you believe differently and that is your right. God be with you always, Troubles.
quote:Originally posted by Mai: SO GOD has the power to protect his prophet jesus also..even if he was crosed And you said it by your self " what parent does not want to help his children? What parent, seeing his children in danger would not try to save them, even to the point of giving his own life in place of his childrens lives?"So what about the God not the parents!! So why to sacrify the prophet to save the sinners when i have the power to save him and forgive them???i don't get this... so what was the reason of the prophet suffering for the sake of sinners when the reward will depend on their work..i can be with you in suffer for teaching but suffer to carry sins of his followers!!! GOD WITH YOU .M.
I understand what you mean, Mai, but the difference here is that we are looking at Jesus from two different perspectives. We don't see Jesus as a prophet, we see Him as the spirit of God on earth - fully man and fully God. Jesus had the power and authority from God to make his own decisions. As a verse I quoted earlier pointed out, no one on earth could have taken Jesus or crucified Him if He had not allowed it to happen. We see his suffering and death in human terms but He saw things in God's terms and for God's purpose. He conquered death, He was not held by it. He was not afraid of it.
Our reward in Heaven is supposed to be determined by our works but we can only get to Heaven through faith. We believe works cannot get us to Heaven because man is not perfect and nothing man can do will ever be good enough to work our way to Heaven. And works without faith is dead. Faith without works is fruitless. It is only through God's gift of mercy through faith we can come to Him.
That's the short version, Mai, and I hope I haven't been confusing. I apologize if I have.
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