posted
read 'what do you think of the bush admin handing 6 ports to the UAE' thread on the politics forum. theres links there too.
Posts: 5642 | From: hellonearth.myfastforum.org Forum Index | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Truedevotion: I have heard ( not sure if this information is correct)that when muslim men go to heaven they can have there as many virgins as they want.
I wouldn´t really feel comfortable with that if I were a muslim woman.
Why not?
That's a great idea..
khalleehom y7ello 3an 2afana!
My idea of heaven is that men get the virgins..
And women go shopping Posts: 8756 | From: Tax-Free Zone | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
quote:Originally posted by Truedevotion: I have heard ( not sure if this information is correct)that when muslim men go to heaven they can have there as many virgins as they want.
I wouldn´t really feel comfortable with that if I were a muslim woman.
Why not?
That's a great idea..
khalleehom y7ello 3an 2afana!
My idea of heaven is that men get the virgins..
And women go shopping
Men can have virgins in heaven as long as I get to kick these studs in the gonads afterwards.
Posts: 5744 | From: Minneapolis, Mn USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
"Men can have virgins in heaven as long as I get to kick these studs in the gonads afterwards."
Ahhhh hahaha!!!!!! Oh my word is that funny.
LovedOne, did you know you can eat and drink as much as you want and never have to pee or poo in heaven? I'm serious.
Other than that, the woman gets "equal reward" supposedly. I would not want to be a virgin in heaven, nor do a virgin in heaven. I never imagined a sexual aspect to heaven, but that's because I didn't grow up muslim. I thought we just get wings and see our grandparents.
Posts: 1161 | From: wo xiang xiao bian ji si le | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Can someone point out to me where I can read exactly what it is that we're supposed to be rewarded with in heaven? The concept of a literal heaven is a bit foreign to me. And the things that I've heard that one can have in heaven seems just a bit strange to me.
Posts: 1283 | From: Cairo | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Do you mean on the internet? I usually don't look up religious stuff online. But there are books and books of hadith, and that's where you run into this information. Then go look for another translation!
Posts: 1161 | From: wo xiang xiao bian ji si le | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
thank you Dalia for the second link in your post I agree with it a lot although I am not sure, as for the first one I doubt it and there are points I totally conflict with
Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Lovedone, as Ayman had said, we will be rewarded physically, but I thinl in another way, I believe that our physical structure also will be different yet the reward will be physically, whom had build this creation can't he rebuild it .. Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
we all will horemheb .. no problem with me .. do you have any problem with that because simply you can't stop it
Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
"get wings and see our grandarents"!!!!!! LOL!!!!
Posts: 5642 | From: hellonearth.myfastforum.org Forum Index | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
yes this is true. muslims in jannaj will have lots of virgins. this is in quran in surat alrahman.
generally in jannah there are lots of gd thing you dn't know or heard or think before. this is the reward of Allah(the only God) to the people wh deserve it.
Posts: 33 | From: cairo | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
also women will be rewarded! in the way they like. as Quran says that in jannah, there are all thing which the soul like or want
Posts: 33 | From: cairo | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
To All Arabic speakers, I have read the second site which Dalia posted here, so I will paste a passage of the article and would like to know who agree with the Author in this part, here it is:
Now, we are getting closer to the meaning of the expression “Qasiratu alttarfi”.
From the dual form “Feehima” in verses 55:50 and 55:52, we notice a switch to “Feehina” (In them) where them (Huna) is in plural feminine inclination, therefore this can not be about describing additional “beings” or creatures in the “two gardens”. The addressed all along in chapter 55 is in dual form referring to “manifest” nature of humans and hidden nature of “jinn” which we don’t have a full grasp of their nature yet as in 55:55
“Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?”
Arabic: “Fabi-ayyi ala-i rabbikuma tukaththibani”
The verb “tukaththibani” (to deny) is in dual form. The only logical object left that is referred to by the pronoun “huna” is in the last part of verse 55:54. It could only be about the “fruits” that are hanging low –in the “implied” branches of the trees-.
Being chaste for men and women has always been expressed in the Quran by the expression “Hifdh el faraj” and not by the forced interpretation of “Qasiratu alttarfi”. It has been assumed that it means “to lower the gaze”. However lowering the gaze is always expressed by “ghadh el bassar” as found in 24:30 and 24:31.
Heaven is not a place where the concepts of being chaste or unchaste, lowering the gaze or not lowering the gaze apply. It is a place where believers will be rewarded and not accountable again for their deeds, this makes the whole interpretation of the expression “Qasiratu alttarfi” as “chaste”/”gaze lowered” ridiculous and inconsistent with the Quranic text. The root of “Qasiratu” is “Qasara”: to shorten/make short and it has been assumed that “alttarfi” is the eyelid. Technically speaking, when you shorten your eyelid, you are opening your eyes wider! If you want to really “lower your gaze”, you need to “lengthen” and show more of your eyelid surface. The expression used in the Quran for the “blink of the eye” is “irtadda elttaraf” as found in verses 14:43 and 27:40 and these are totally unrelated to the topic of “lower the gaze”.
In its general sense, “taraf” is simply “end” as expressed in the Quran by “tarafay elnahhar” (two ends of the day-verse 11:114) or “Atraaf elnahaar” (ends of the day-verse 20:130). “Taraf” –end- is a multi-meaning word, it is found in verses 13:41 and 21:44 to express the “ends” of the earth. I have to remember here my basic biology/science lessons in the primary school: The body is divided into three “parts”: “Elraas” (the head), “El jidh3” (the trunk) and “el atraaf” –ends- (the limbs: arms and legs) as arms and legs are the end parts of your body. Therefore “Qasiratu alttarfi” is simply a description of the “fruits that are hanging low”, thus you can reach them easily for plucking/picking effortlessly without having to stretch your arms (or take a long walk).
Posts: 1201 | From: Egypt | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Truedevotion: I have heard ( not sure if this information is correct)that when muslim men go to heaven they can have there as many virgins as they want.
I wouldn´t really feel comfortable with that if I were a muslim woman. Before I tell more coments if wish to hear...
how do you feel about it?
I really don't know about this virgin’s thing?? I have trouble believing that God with all of his holiness and purity would open the heavens for people to have sex with tons of virgins as a reward for killing human life??? Plus, did it ever occur to you that when you die, you get rid of all the things that you live by on earth, i.e. hunger, thirst, sex, etc because you become very much a spirit? I just feel bad for all of those men who killed themselves for sexual pleasures they could have had while they lived here on earth??? Posts: 5 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Mr Egypt: I have read the second site which Dalia posted here, so I will paste a passage of the article and would like to know who agree with the Author in this part
They have a forum on their site with a section for comments and discussion on the articles. It might be interesting for you to discuss it there ...
posted
I would not be surprised if Heaven was different for each of us when we get there. Personally, I am quickly passing on male virgins (maybe will take few divorcees) but in general the idea of SHOPPING forever and ever makes me feel very very angelic. Posts: 2238 | From: Mother Earth | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
A Palestinian Authority religious leader encourages the striving to achieve Shahada by promising numerous rewards for those dying as shahids, including "72 dark eyed" - the 72 virgins.
posted
Being chaste for men and women has always been expressed in the Quran by the expression “Hifdh el faraj” and not by the forced interpretation of “Qasiratu alttarfi”. It has been assumed that it means “to lower the gaze”. However lowering the gaze is always expressed by “ghadh el bassar” as found in 24:30 and 24:31.
In its general sense, “taraf” is simply “end” as expressed in the Quran by “tarafay elnahhar” (two ends of the day-verse 11:114) or “Atraaf elnahaar” (ends of the day-verse 20:130). “Taraf” –end- is a multi-meaning word, it is found in verses 13:41 and 21:44 to express the “ends” of the earth. ================================== well, that is not true, the word in the Holy Quran can mean more than one meaning, the word that this author is talking about here is taraf which he say is simply end isnt true as we can read the same word in another verse which mean the gaze, He didnt mention this verse because it dont serve his topic so I wonder how he will interpret it, surat 42, verse 45 و تراهم يعرضون عليها خاشعين من الذل ينظرون من طرف خفى so no end here as the author claim which means his interpretations to the verses is ridiculous and nonesense. furthermore, why should I take someone's unkown interpretations for the Quran when I have tafaseer books.
Posts: 1201 | From: Egypt | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
Rab waheed, with all respect to you I just have one question , you dont have to answer it at all, are you christian?
Posts: 1201 | From: Egypt | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Mr Egypt: Rab waheed, with all respect to you I just have one question , you dont have to answer it at all, are you christian?
Mr. Egypt, First of all to answer your question, No I am not, and I don't think it is relevant. Why when people start to question things in the Koran, we immediately say they must be Christians, or non-Moslem? You see, I believe God has given us brains to think, and to be honest with you, I am starting to question lots of things in the religion. The Virgins deal for example made me question because we all agree that God is very holy and pure, and he will not open the heavens for people to have sex parties. In fact; he asks us not to commit adultery on earth and if we wanted to have sex, then we should get married, am I right? So, how can he allow it in heaven? Is he a hypocrite? On the other hand, logically, when we die, we get out of the earthly bodies, and become a spirit. A spirit does not hunger, thirst, or has a need for sex anymore. Am I right? God also does not want us to kill others if we disagree with their faith, he created life and only he has the power to take it back if he wanted, am I right? You see, I did not, and will not insult Islam, or any other religion, I just question things because God has given me brains to think and has given me the power to understand right from wrong so I can live as a loving, decent human being. Hope this answer your question. Thanks.
Posts: 5 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by RabWahed55: The Virgins deal for example made me question because we all agree that God is very holy and pure, and he will not open the heavens for people to have sex parties. In fact; he asks us not to commit adultery on earth and if we wanted to have sex, then we should get married, am I right? So, how can he allow it in heaven? Is he a hypocrite? On the other hand, logically, when we die, we get out of the earthly bodies, and become a spirit. A spirit does not hunger, thirst, or has a need for sex anymore. Am I right? [QB]
You have made it clear to me that you are not Muslim or maybe you have a lack of knowledgment and we are all that person. No Mr Wahed, You are totally Wrong. When we die Allah will ressurect us with our bodies, we wont be spirit. it would only be justice that if man is tested in a physical world, then his reward/punishment should also be of a physical nature. there are a lot of verses in the Quran in case you didnt read it all that describe the reward and the punishment as a pyhsical reward/punishment. for example, Allah gives believers "any kind of fruit and meat that they desire" (Surat at-Tur, 22), and will offer them "any bird-meat they desire" (Surat al-Waqi'a, 22). Moreover, their food will "never run out" that's just one example. a spirit dont eat nor drink. one more example, They will enter Gardens of Eden, where they will be adorned with gold bracelets and pearls, and where their clothing will be of silk. They will say: "Praise be to Allah, Who has removed all sadness from us. Truly, our Lord is Ever-Forgiving, Ever-Thankful: He Who has lodged us, out of His favor, in the Abode of Permanence, where no weariness or fatigue affects us." (Surah Fatir, 33-35) so does a spirit wear clothes? Gold?
more verse that prove we will have physical bodies in the Heaven insha'Allah:
"They will recline (with ease) On Thrones (of dignity) Arranged in ranks; And We shall join them To Companions, with beautiful Big and lustrous eyes. And those who believe And whose families follow Them in Faith -- to them Shall We join their families: Nor shall We deprive them (Of the fruit) of aught Of their works: (Yet) is each individual In pledge for his deeds. (The Noble Quran, 52:20-21)"
"For them will be a Home Of Peace in the presence Of their Lord: He will be Their Friend, because They practised (righteousness). (The Noble Quran, 6:127)"
"And We shall bestow On them, of fruit and meat, Anything they shall desire. (The Noble Quran, 52:22)"
"(To them will be said:) 'Eat and drink ye, With profit and health, Because of your (good) deeds. (The Noble Quran, 52:19)"
"Therein will they Recline (at ease): Therein can they Call (at pleasure) For fruit in abundance, And (delicious) drink; (The Noble Quran, 38:51)"
so now do you agree with me that we are not spirit in the hearafter? Am I right? one example for the punishment in the hell [19] These two opponents (believers and disbelievers) dispute with each other about their Lord: then as for those who disbelieved, garments of fire will be cut out for them, boiling water will be poured down over their heads. [20] With it will melt (or vanish away) what is within their bellies, as well as (their) skins. surat Alhaj 22 (19-20) does a spirit have heads or bellies? just as I said before it would only be justice that if man is tested in a physical world, then his reward/punishment should also be of a physical nature.
now lets go back to your first question: how can he allow it in heaven? Is he a hypocrite? before I answer this question you should know that God dont be questioned of what He do, Glory be to Him, He do what He want. When GOD Almighty created Adam, peace be upon him, in the Garden of Eden (one of the Gardens of Heaven), He created him in our physical form today. The earth that we are living on today is the punishment that Adam and Eve received when they disobeyed GOD Almighty. After GOD Almighty finished Creating Adam, He decided to create a mate for him.GOD Almighty literally took Adam's rib (which proves that Adam had a physical body in Heaven) and created Eve. There is no question that Adam and Eve had physical bodies that even had genitals in them too! The proof for this is simply our bodies today, and the purpose of our genitals is to enable us to "multiply" That is why GOD Almighty Created a male and a female. Now before I go any further, let me raise the following questions:
1- Why did GOD Almighty Create genitals for Adam and Eve in Heaven?
2- Why did GOD Almighty, from the first place, create male and female in Heaven?
The answer is simple and its given above: To multiply!
Later on after Eve was created, we are taught that she ate the forbidden fruit after she got tempted by the devil, which caused both Adam and Eve to be kicked out of Heaven. Now, let me raise the following questions:
1- Did Adam and Eve have sex during the days before they got kicked out of Heaven? If not, then why not? Wasn't she created to be his mate? Did they not then have physical contact with each others for the, perhaps, long years that they lived with each others in Heaven before getting kicked out of it?
Also, the fact that Eve was Adam's "wife" in Heaven and was meant to be eventually the "mother of all the living", then there is no doubt that Adam and Eve did consummate (have sex) in Heaven! Otherwise, how exactly was Eve a "wife" to Adam? What do husbands and wives do?
2- Since GOD Almighty Created love and sexuality, and Adam and Even certainly had genitals in Heaven, and they loved each others, and they were a husband and a wife, then give me one logical reason why they couldn't have possibly had sex in Heaven!
If Eve was not a "wife" to Adam, then how exactly was she supposed to be our "mother"? Was she Adam's girlfriend? Aren't fornication and adultery considered a sin in the Eyes of GOD Almighty?
By the way, even if Adam and Eve never had sex, the fact that they had physical bodies (Eve was created from Adam's rib) in Heaven answers your question about us being only spirits in Heaven!
in Short, you are now having sex with your wife in this world before God's eyes (if you are married , lol ) then why not having it in the Hearafter too as a pleasure for your body who worshiped God in this world.
I am sorry if I didnt do a good job explaining due to my poor English but I hope you understand me.
Posts: 1201 | From: Egypt | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Truedevotion: I have heard ( not sure if this information is correct)that when muslim men go to heaven they can have there as many virgins as they want.
I wouldn´t really feel comfortable with that if I were a muslim woman. Before I tell more coments if wish to hear...
how do you feel about it?
Is it sex that you don't like to have in heaven or virgins?
When you go heaven what are you expecting to enjoy? beside singing and walking with God.
Posts: 149 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Hey Rock, I can't answer for Truedevotion, but I must say the idea of having sensual pleasure in paradise with a virgin is not particularly appealing to me. Of course, the virgin guys in paradise might be extra special, but judging from this life, I would rather have one I have already "trained." Let's say, mmmm, a 2-month primed specimen.
Posts: 1161 | From: wo xiang xiao bian ji si le | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by QueenBee: Hey Rock, I can't answer for Truedevotion, but I must say the idea of having sensual pleasure in paradise with a virgin is not particularly appealing to me. Of course, the virgin guys in paradise might be extra special, but judging from this life, I would rather have one I have already "trained." Let's say, mmmm, a 2-month primed specimen.
You can try them first but remember they were made specially for the purpose by God thus, you shall have no doubts about thee , you shall not have anymore disappointments, says Rock.
Posts: 149 | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Truedevotion: I have heard ( not sure if this information is correct)that when muslim men go to heaven they can have there as many virgins as they want.
I wouldn´t really feel comfortable with that if I were a muslim woman. Before I tell more coments if wish to hear...
how do you feel about it?
I really don't know about this virgin’s thing?? I have trouble believing that God with all of his holiness and purity would open the heavens for people to have sex with tons of virgins as a reward for killing human life??? Plus, did it ever occur to you that when you die, you get rid of all the things that you live by on earth, i.e. hunger, thirst, sex, etc because you become very much a spirit? I just feel bad for all of those men who killed themselves for sexual pleasures they could have had while they lived here on earth???
When you die you do not tak you body with you. But you soul as a new *perfect* body..
AS QueenBee said you dont need to **** or peee, so obivoisly you'll have a certain body with different attributes.
IT think it said that every man and women in heaven is about 20 or 30 years old, not young or older..not sure..but all similiar ages, and i think men and women wear same clothes...
Abstaining from sex is not being un-holy. Not everything you *enjoy* has to be bad.
Islam allows anything, just not some music, and drinking, and certain foods. it only a small amount of limitation.
Posts: 2457 | From: U | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
sometimes we stick to our limited knowledge and we forget to read more and gain more knowledge.
"Lack of a sense of culture for a religious scholar is more dangerous than a lack of blood cells for a weak patient. A caller to Allah has to read about virtually everything. He or she has to read the books of belief and the books of atheism, the books of Sunnah and the books of philosophy. In short, to read about all schools of human thought is how one gains experience in life." - Al-Ghazaly – The Man of Da`wah
One of the things i was hoping to read about in this thread was " Hoorun Al-ne'am " and she is the Faithful Muslimah on earth when she goes to heaven. Allah (SW) makes her Most beautiful and most intellectual above all other women.
Now , why would a faithful muslim (in heaven) think about having another virgin less than his wife!! And what should happen to those who didn't have the chance to marry on earth and have a wife!!
However , there are different degrees and levels in heaven(s) the highest level is " Al-ferdous Al-A'laa " the highest level where people live with the presence of Allah and they won't have anything else except this most precious gift
Posts: 184 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
everytime I see the "Dalia and WesternDebt" I laugh! What's wrong with you two? It's not a scecret anymore, you're in love and you're crazy about each other.---we all know---
Posts: 149 | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Rock: everytime I see the "Dalia and WesternDebt" I laugh!
You're not the only one who finds this quite amusing.
As I said, it's so obvious! Western, if you're going for western style wedding, let me be your best man and if an Egyptian style , I can decorate my car and take you both in a ride around Tahrir squar
What do you think? Posts: 149 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
For any inquisitive mind, all the descriptions and “bonuses” in heaven are sensual descriptions that deal directly with the senses of taste, touch, hearing, hunger, thirst and lust. While the Quran is full of moral teachings that banishes and indicts most of those “earthly” sensations and pleasures of the “flesh”, yet it postpones it to the after life, why is that?
It would make lots of sense if we carefully consider and imagine, both in the social and geographic sense, the harshness and cruelty of the boring Bedwin life on one hand, and on the other hand the Arabian Peninsula’s very harsh desert climate that lacks any sort of shade and greenery like what you would find in lands with rivers like Egypt and Iraq.
A sensible question might arise; why wasn’t the description of Paradise more on the spiritual and less on the sensational to further emphasize the basic teaching? Why would you order your own kid not to do one thing while giving him good reasons for forbidding it, then you tell him that he will have the same thing at the end of the trip?
Someone please give an explanation, but not the classic answer of: this wine is not like the earthly wine and so forth, you haven’t been there, you have never tasted any of them either here or there, so spare me.
Posts: 657 | From: Cairo | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Dalia, the description about wine in paradise is that you can drink forever and never get drunk, I believe. Its not intoxicating this way. It does bring to mind the issue of how literally these sentences are taken. Many of the Christians I know in these more luxurious days take the Biblical sentiments figuratively. Whereas when consumption and smallpox, hard work and starvation took the people in their prime, here the children were named Faith and Charity, and hell was something people really feared. The Koran is usually taken word for word with absolute belief that it is not figurative.
Posts: 1161 | From: wo xiang xiao bian ji si le | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
"Someone please give an explanation, but not the classic answer of: this wine is not like the earthly wine and so forth, you haven’t been there, you have never tasted any of them either here or there, so spare me."
i didnt say i was there
there are "spritual" sides too actually...
the people of heaven, even the women, wont feel jelous, even men this negatrive moods we get stresss, worries, fear, etc.... they will be removoved,,,only "feel good" feeling will stay
wherea in hell, people only feel, regret, turmoil, unhappiness, stresss...
and these are eternal feeeling? can u imagine an eternal life of stress-free, just feeling good, no worries, eat wat u want, do wat u want, no guiilt, no sin.... so there are physcial, and spritual
-------------------- -- here... [url=http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0955020700/qid%3D1133898517/026-7853042-0414807= Recommended...![/url] Posts: 2457 | From: U | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by QueenBee: Dalia, the description about wine in paradise is that you can drink forever and never get drunk, I believe.
What's the point of wine, then? I don't mean to be facetious. It's that buzzed feeling that everyone loves so much about the drink.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
I know, I was thinking that myself when I first learned about that. But think of it another way, you are in Paradise. Do you think you feel the same as here? You have weight on you from long days, you feel like you need to get out from the regular day you are having, maybe feel a little lighter, easier, more social....usually people drink like this. What I am suggesting is that maybe in Paradise you feel better than any buzz, all the time. So this wine is like delicious fruit juices, rolling through the landscape, symbolizing the abundance and richness of paradise... Yeah, I pretty quickly think about life in the desert when I hear those descriptions.
Posts: 1161 | From: wo xiang xiao bian ji si le | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by QueenBee: I know, I was thinking that myself when I first learned about that. But think of it another way, you are in Paradise. Do you think you feel the same as here? You have weight on you from long days, you feel like you need to get out from the regular day you are having, maybe feel a little lighter, easier, more social....usually people drink like this. What I am suggesting is that maybe in Paradise you feel better than any buzz, all the time. So this wine is like delicious fruit juices, rolling through the landscape, symbolizing the abundance and richness of paradise... Yeah, I pretty quickly think about life in the desert when I hear those descriptions.
I agree that we have no idea what existence in heaven will really be like. I'm so used to taking religious issues in a figurative sense...that Islam is literal makes me question things I never would have questioned before...like what is the use of wine if it doesn't give you a buzz? I have a difficult time personally thinking of every single little thing as being literal.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
Well, I guess I never really liked the taste of a lot of alcoholic drinks. I hate beer and hard liquor and leaves nothing but wine. So the only thing I did like was the buzz. Not drunk, mind you, just a buzz.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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