posted
has anyone ever been afraid of finding god?
im primarily asking atheists/agnostics or those of you who have found religion.
when you felt god, were you open to it straight away or did you try to close yourself off from it?
were you afraid?
did you worry that it might change who you are, your personality? or what people might think? or the implications?
what were the initial differences in your life?
if you felt close to it but turned away again, how did you feel? what were the circumstances?
Posts: 5642 | From: hellonearth.myfastforum.org Forum Index | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
every Human passed a a very difficult problem in His life.... this problem was without Any solution.. he get so so amazed wit it... Then in this diffcult time, s/he will ask himeslf who am I?? Why am i here in this life?? Why was I created?? who created me?? and soon, You will find that You will turn your eye to the sky saying... God save me I'm in a big trouble.. Oh! my creator, My lord, I dont have any solution ! you are the only One to help me! I was doing lots of mistake in my life! i hurt lots of people! forgive me and let my problem pass away!.
Soon the problem will be terminated.. and u forgot what you was doing but God doesnt forgot you. God is so so merciful to Human even if The human is forgetting.....
What God want is to know that he is th only God and he is in the heavens watching all his creatures knowing their problem AND TO WORSHIP HIM BY THE WAY THAT THE PROPHETS AND MESSNGERS DESCRIBES
God is so forgiving and merciful and he loves people WHO when they make mistake, they call him again for forgiving...
Can a mother harm her kids??? God is so merciful to his servants much more than the mother
Posts: 1007 | From: http://www.sultan.org | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
God is forgiving and if he wasnt lovgng his creatues, He would exlode them immediately but as God is merciful , he didnt do this. He gives them time to be back and when they are back, he is welcoming them...
So dont be afraid! God is more merciful than Mothers. Can mother harm her kids??? If her kid is doing lots of mistake, and then went back says am sorry , mother. The mother will welcome him. God is more welcoming..
Posts: 1007 | From: http://www.sultan.org | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
i dont know... ive just got loads of weird thoughts and compulsions at the moment.
i read about the connection between brain trauma and religion on line yesterday and i feel like i can explain away my feelings scientifically/medically.. but.. i dont know.
all i know is ive never dropped to my knees and prayed to god like a true believer the way i did last sunday... i didnt think about doing it, i just did it... and i was sure i was praying to someone.
now im rational, and i know i was in a bad situation... but i prayed hed live and he did.. against all odds he lived. i then found myself holding his hand for the next few days, putting it to my forehead and clasping it, praying to god that hed wake up... and he did. then when he didnt recognise me i prayed he would and he did.
again... im rational... all part of the healing process right?... so why am i being tugged towards believing rather than dismissing? and when i think 'how could god let this happen' why am i more drawn towards the possibility that god stepped in and left him with me... like THAT was the sign ive been looking for.
and if so.. why isnt it more obvious? how much faith can a non believer be expected to have?
Posts: 5642 | From: hellonearth.myfastforum.org Forum Index | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote: The change is marked in her request and in her physical attitude. She knelt before him, not as a claimant, but as a worshipper. Her appeal was no longer one of right, of merit, of justice – but one of faith. And it was her faith which allowed her to be obedient to the Lord.
posted
Well, Thanks God that He is well, I think this is a message of God for you to believe. Lots of human passed this moment, after this moment some people try search about God and some people forgot about him....
The people who will forgot, God will send them another message, and again and again...
Finallay, If they believe that God is God who created them, gave them power and gave them his blesing and worship God ( worship is to increase the belief strenghth), God is rewarding them in both life and the hereafter...
This is Islam message which believe in all prophets and all sacred books. According to it, Belief is a thing that increases by obeying God's instructions and orders and decrease with disobediance.
Quran ( muslim's sacred books) is telling that God is upove us on his throne in the heavens.. no human saw God till now.. God will allow the good people who believe to see him in the paradise..
Posts: 1007 | From: http://www.sultan.org | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:why isnt it more obvious? how much faith can a non believer be expected to have?
It is obvious, yet we are so blind, we spend more time analysing life rather than thinking about the origin of it. We take things in granted when it is a miracle, after a while we get used to miracle, if you tell a child that there are people whom fly he would believe you, is it because he is not rational? I think it is because everything he sees is just a miracle for him, it wouldn't surprise him if we fly?
As for your fear I think I know how you feel, and yes it is hard to let go, yes it is hard to change, and it is harder to hold the robe if you take the intiative to god. It is harder to hold the robe but guess what once you hold it you will understand what you have left behind and you will regret those days of disbelieve. You will understand that god is so precious that you have to search for, he is so clear to see and so precious to seek for, so hard to hold on to his robe and so easily he can pull the robe if you want him to .. he is so near, so dear and so answering .. I believe that is what is life is all about .. wish you the best
Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
You wanted to know if people felt afraid of religion and if they worried about the implications. Although my story had a different beginning to yours, it wasn’t initiated by a trauma, there was a moment that I suddenly felt that there was a God and I had to come to terms with the implications of that somehow.
Despite the fact that I attended a church school, attended church on Sunday, my dad ran the Sunday School, and I grew up surrounded by religious people, I never actually believed in God…I never really believed in my heart what they were telling me. When I hit 14 I started to go to confirmation classes, as it was my time to go, sort of like a rite of passage. I remember going to those classes hoping that they would help me to believe in God, but they didn’t…it was just more words. Needless to say, soon after that I stopped going to church, accepted my agnosticism and just got on with life.
Much later I had a friend who wanted to marry a Muslim, so she started asking lots of questions about Islam and I would join in with many of these discussions. We would have long heated discussions. One day in the middle of al these discussions, I had my “lightbulb moment” and I realised that God did exist, that there had to be a God. It was quite shocking, and I certainly wasn’t looking for it...I went very quiet and dropped out of the discussion to try to understand what that meant.
The first thoughts that began to grow were that if it was true that there was a God, who/what was He/She/It? And if a God did exist, one that had created and controlled/supported the world and all that was in it (as this was the concept I had) then that meant that I was also part of that creation, so what was my connection/relationship with that God? What did that mean to me and my life? I was quite happy with my life and the way it was. I was just living a “normal western life” and I didn’t really want to make any changes, and I certainly didn’t want to become a “religious” person, as that really didn’t fit with my own self-image at all. But I felt the need to start asking questions and reading a lot to find out what my new belief meant to me…I wasn’t looking for a religion, I wanted to know who/what God was.
Bit by bit, the pieces of the jigsaw began to fall into place and I began to understand more, but it felt more like an intellectual journey, as I didn’t want to follow a recognized religion…I didn’t want to have to submit to all those rules, be associated with people who lived different styles of life from the one I was happy leading, stop doing things I enjoyed doing, and I didn’t want to loose my friends as I could just imagine their derision if I said I had become religious!
But one evening, the last piece of the jigsaw went in place and I was shocked rigid and scared, as I knew that over a period of time I had come to believe in Islam. I believed in the fundamentals and that meant that I had become a Muslim, despite myself. I tried to reject the idea, but a number of things happened that evening that confirmed to me that that was what had happened. I then realised that if I actually believed that then it was going to affect my life. It was like realising that you believe that it is cruel to eat animals and that you believe in the ideas that vegetarians talk about. You can’t then go out and eat a big steak!
Once that realization had properly set in, I started on my journey to find out how it was going to affect my life. I took very small steps initially and only made changes when I felt comfortable with them. Yes, I did receive some strange reactions from friends, but no-one rejected me. But overtime, as my faith developed, we grew apart as we had less in common with each other. But it wasn’t a lonely time as I was comfortable with my beliefs and I met others who had similar beliefs, so it was a gradual transition, but one I was happy to make when the time came.
Hope that answers some of your questions. I believe that God makes Himself known to people in many different ways in ways that are appropriate for each individual, it is then up to you whether you are going to take notice and recognize it, and its also then up to you what you will do about it. Insha Allah, if that is what has happened to you, I hope you take this chance to open your heart and try to learn the implications of what you are feeling now.
Sorry for the long ramble, hope I didn’t bore you!
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
lots of what you said is just how i feel... i worry most of all that it will change my relationship with my boyfriend... that he will have enough to cope with without losing the girlfriend he knew.
his family came down from scotland to see him last night and they are very religious, they had this card that said that they'd made a donation to something or other and that people would pray for him in mass for 1 year. it was so comforting. they also brought a religious medallion and i havnt got a clue who it was of but the belief and confidence in their faces and words that it would help just made me believe it would.
i keep trying to rationalise it.. i think that they believe so it shows very subtly on their faces and in their words and tone and therefor maybe in things we cant see, i dont know, vibrations or something... so that eases the patient and helps. i on the other hand, im scared, worried, jumpy etc and maybe he sees/feels that which wont help him.
so, is it religion or is it just the human mind.
also, i have seen 1st hand that there is a compulsion to blame someone... am i just looking to blame god?
am i just desperate for him to be helped? i first felt the desire to pray when i was calling the ambulance, then when the surgeons were working on him, then when he rejected the life support machine and the doctors were trying to help but it was touch and go.. is it just a cry for help? its like, if i cant help him, or the doctors i need to believe theres still someone that can.
oh i dont know.
Posts: 5642 | From: hellonearth.myfastforum.org Forum Index | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
I don't have time to give you the full answer that your post needs now, but just a couple of quick points to think about.
Maybe your boyfriend will come with you on your journey. If he can open his heart to the idea that it was maybe God/Allah who gave him a second chance at life, and there might have been a reason for that. If all the odds were against his survival…why did he survive? Why did God/Allah bring him back to life rather than take him?
And if he can't come with you yet, can you deny what you feel/believe now? We keep on saying that you shouldn't adopt a religion because of a man, that you should only do it because you believe in it. Doesn't the same thing apply here, that you have to stay true to what you believe in, and you shouldn't give it up for a man? If God/Allah has spared your boyfriend’s life, maybe in part because you pleaded with Him to do so...can you turn your back on that?
Insha Allah, I'll answer the other bits later if I can find some time.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
RIR WHATS NOT RITE? i konw wots this girl feel, i fel the sam epain, iffel i feel the same pain, i loos someone, i now tah same paun. i no good at the speaking but i knoe thw same pain.
Posts: 9 | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I am happy for you Charm, you've been there now, you'll be back whenever. Don't bother about rationalising, life itself is the miracle. Praying is key and comforting. If you feel embarrased you keep things just for yourself as long as you want. Don't fall into the 'must' trap, as if you have to change yourself allover to prove something. Just be yourself. I hope Pete is doing allright.
quote:Originally posted by drew: RIR WHATS NOT RITE? i konw wots this girl feel, i fel the sam epain, iffel i feel the same pain, i loos someone, i now tah same paun. i no good at the speaking but i knoe thw same pain.
its nothing to do with that just summat is not quite right in here all of ES .
Posts: 4597 | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I am afraid of sharing my faith with other believers. Most christians, jews and muslims who are practicing are doing it for show.
Not to much sincerity when you are carrying around a Bible or Quran or Torah in the workplace, street corner or a PTA meeting.
Posts: 991 | From: My daughter is a stalker | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
Sorry for the delay...I got busy for longer than expected.
You say that you keep on trying to rationalize what you are feeling and seeing, and in a way that is a natural instinct when you are faced with something that you have denied for so long due to rational thinking, but in this life not everything has a rational explanation.
Why do we fall in love with the people we do? Why do some people survive terrible accidents when the odds say that they won’t and others die? Why are some people rich despite making no apparent effort and others can’t get there, no matter how hard they try? Why do some children die and other people live to a ripe old age, even though they may have lived unhealthy lives? Why are some people intelligent or happy and others not?
We can try to look for scientifically explainable rational excuses, but they are not always there and we just have to accept that that is the way it is meant to be, that they were the lucky or unlucky ones.
And if you felt the need to call to an external being to save your boyfriend, why did you call out to God, a being you said you didn’t believe existed, why not to Lucifer, Fate, Superman, or a myriad of other beings?
Sometimes in the West, we like to think that we are totally rational beings, that everything we do has some logical explanation, but the truth is that we ignore a lot of things that don’t fit into that schema, or we ridicule them, or we say that there are some things that we don’t need to know. We look at people who have faith in religion and deem them to be weak people who need props that we don’t, claim that they have invented things to explain the unexplainable, and we run away from looking at the possible truth they might have found...because if we actually ended up believing what they did, that would make us weak like them in other people’s eyes, and also it might entail us having to make changes in our lives, and we like the freedom to be able to pick and choose for ourselves according to what ever suits our fancy.
But then we come to a time like the one you are facing, and you see the confidence in people’s eyes when they are facing a tragedy, because it has been explained to them through their religious beliefs; or we see the assurance of others when facing poverty, because that again is explained through their beliefs; or they are happy to call out to God/Allah, because they know He exits, then doubts can come into our hearts and we wonder if we really did have all the answers after all.
Some of us take that as a suggestion, a promt, to try and understand why the other people had that confidence, others let the opportunity pass by. Insha Allah, you will be in the first group and will open your heart to what you have experienced and won’t just try to deal with it in your head.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
thanks again newcomer, and once again lots of what you said is what im thinking about.
i couldnt sleep a wink last night, all sorts of things going round and round in my head.. i ended up thinking that its not a 'decision' i need to make, and the only thing i can do is be open to the idea. its on my mind and im not denying anything. i cant explain how i felt so i wont try to.
i also figured that i dont have to conform to a religion or change my lifestyle/personality.
i dont know how things are gonna work out... but im gonna keep an open mind.
Posts: 5642 | From: hellonearth.myfastforum.org Forum Index | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Can I suggest that it's your heart that you need to keep open not just your mind? Go with your feelings, listen to your heart, and see where they take you; but before you make any major decisons, then get your brain into gear
I had a friend who accepted Islam a couple of weeks before I did. She said: "I have become a Muslim, but it won't change me," and it didn't, because she fought it and kept her heart closed to change. I said: "I have become a Muslim, and I don't know where it will take me." and I'm still finding myself in new places because of it Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
i'll try! im going to church on sunday anyway... i do go quite often but this time will be strange!
Posts: 5642 | From: hellonearth.myfastforum.org Forum Index | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
The first thoughts that began to grow were that if it was true that there was a God, who/what was He/She/It? And if a God did exist, one that had created and controlled/supported the world and all that was in it (as this was the concept I had) then that meant that I was also part of that creation, so what was my connection/relationship with that God? Sorry for the long ramble, hope I didn’t bore you!
Salam Newcomer, excellent post and certainly a ramble worth reading this bit in particular got me, it was same for me when I had to try to get the concept of GOD in my head which is hard when our brians try to make Him a man or man-like being. The actual 'thinking through' of creation, all of it, the vastness of it all, is beyond human understanding, its too big. That became the overwhelming bit for me, that was part of my 'lightbulb'
Charm, im so happy to hear hes getting better. Its funny how even people who 'dont believe' at some point always end up praying. ...then doubting it. its normal charm, but it helped you, He hears all our sincere prayers. He is there when you want Him, remember that.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
Just I like to say something, I hope you understand it well. Some people after any prophet make a change in the message that God send with prophets.. They made up fake stories and deceive people. God will reveal their false text to you soon. And It will be another message from God. Don't think that they will be able to change God message and God will leave them.. They will spent their time trying to deceive people and God will reveal them to you.. You will have another message. wait for it soon!
Posts: 1007 | From: http://www.sultan.org | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: The actual 'thinking through' of creation, all of it, the vastness of it all, is beyond human understanding, its too big. That became the overwhelming bit for me, that was part of my 'lightbulb'
Wa alaykum salaam Ayisha!
Its strange isn't it what can open people's hearts and when it happens. I must have heard the story of creation from a religious perspective so many times as a child and while I was attending church, but it was never the right key at the right time. But on that day, when the lightbulb moment occurred, I couldn't have escaped the realization if I had tried, it was as you say, so overwhelming.
I could have then ignored it and carried on with my life as if nothing had happened, as a friend of mine did who had a dream about the Prophet when he was the furthest away from religion that a man can be, but I felt that I had to follow it through and find out what it meant to me. That friend did ignore his first dream, but when the second one came, he knew that he had to take notice of it and do something about it. Like islamsweden.org said, once the moments like that start coming they are often followed by others. It's up to us then to make the choice whether to act on them or not.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Oh boy, Islamsweden you defenitely have prophetlike features!:-) Worrysome messages about a magical disastrous nearby future. Let's hope you are a Jonah and leave that poor girl alone!:-)
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by charm el feikh?: i'll try! im going to church on sunday anyway... i do go quite often but this time will be strange!
Charm, have you ever been to a Unitarian Universalist church? Here at least, they are very open-minded and embrace all different beliefs, and leave room for questioning minds. I liked it because it had a unitarian concept of God, not the trinity, but in the end it was too far out there for me. But most of my friends go there now.
quote:Originally posted by charm el feikh?: has anyone ever been afraid of finding god?
im primarily asking atheists/agnostics or those of you who have found religion.
when you felt god, were you open to it straight away or did you try to close yourself off from it?
were you afraid?
did you worry that it might change who you are, your personality? or what people might think? or the implications?
what were the initial differences in your life?
if you felt close to it but turned away again, how did you feel? what were the circumstances?
charm, your relationship with God, is between you and God,when it's all said and done. prayer is probably the best thing to do..
personally I find reading the Bible is also instructive..it's tough trying to do right all the time..we all fall and stumble,,,but them two things allways seem to help me back up.and keep me going....
but thats just my opinion...
Posts: 1172 | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by mike rozier: [QB] [QUOTE]charm, your relationship with God, is between you and God,when it's all said and done. prayer is probably the best thing to do..
100% agree, its between you and God
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
Can I suggest that it's your heart that you need to keep open not just your mind? Go with your feelings, listen to your heart, and see where they take you; but before you make any major decisons, then get your brain into gear
I had a friend who accepted Islam a couple of weeks before I did. She said: "I have become a Muslim, but it won't change me," and it didn't, because she fought it and kept her heart closed to change. I said: "I have become a Muslim, and I don't know where it will take me." and I'm still finding myself in new places because of it [/QUOTE]
Ourselves "our thoughts, our brains, etc" can be very deluding, the problem is that because we actually are the source of thoughts, we are trained to think like this through the education process, growin up, or some mental illness, we just back it up regardless if it is true or not.
I believe this is a fact that sends people to there doom.
Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
charm, Well I think you are on the right track and I want to give you an example I hope it might help you find the way. let me suppose that you are in a maze, you have tens of roads infront of you each road branches (A maze).
Now you want to get through it to the other side where there is a precious trophy or a prize, there is only one trophy and you can actually see it shines but you are used to the light that comes from it.
Now let us suppose that each road have some portriat or glaire "unique design", each person have a favourite ultimate visual effect (glaire or portriat) and all people like good scents, back to our maze the scents are produced from a closed set of rooms usually, you are free to open any of those rooms if you dare to, each of those rooms contains a contaminated magnet thar produce a magnetic field that is proportional to the amount of the scent smell but once the room is closed this field is contaminated and closed within the room, you can open any room of these rooms if you "desire" no restriction as I have said, there are some traps and warning messages beside them, some of the scents are also available from flowers in the road but usually it is a bit hard to find the flower, or may be it is hard to bend to smell it. You have a compass with you this compass ultimately will direct you to the trophy if not for the magnetic effect and the looks of the road which might make you follow it before looking to the compass.
Now, each road of these roads has promoter in front of it, promoters differ in there way of promoting, some told you about what this road includes, others tell you that they have the absolute knowledge from the designer whom constantly contact them and through them only you will find the salvation, others tells you that if you take this idol with you it will guide you to the end don't use the compass this will guide you, others tells you that the designer had consulted them to build the maze, others tell you about how bad is the other roads just follow ours it is the best, and there are promoters whom are willing to answer your questions and give you instruction about there road within there limit of there knowledge, there are other people whom telling you that it is nothing "we are in nothing and this is not a maze" it is a playground, but occasionly you will find some of them trip or sometimes they start to follow one road. Each road might have a more than one promoter, it can help to ask about the road.
Now each road has a visual effect, some of them might include your favorized visual effect, the right road also have a pretty visual effect, although this effect is the most beautiful one but it can be unlike the one you are trained to or it might be away from your eyes so you are not checking it right, you will find some road that have some resemblence to your ultimately beautiful favorite image, including the right wayout, it is more likely that you don't have a clear image of the most beautful image and you might be following a mirage, yet you must know that you have to learn to identify the image you have to think more about it, so that you can deduce which is the ultimate image. The maze is monitored by the designer and the designer all the time is casting his light on the roads so it might shine and shows the actual picture beutiness of it, his light just glorify the rightous, some people say that this is just an effect of the sky "like lightening".
The designer is trying always to send you messages he had gave you the compass he have posted the images he is the one whom cast his light, he had putten warning messages beside the deluding magnets, and sometimes traps so that you don't change your compass, sometimes you might fall in a deep hole "the compass will work right then", the designer afterwards bring you up back to the road and it is your time to take some action so that you remove the effects that varies the compass direction, The designer uniqueness in the design is shown every where in the maze. There are labels everywhere that tell you he exists and shows his creativity, the direction to him but because it is so obvious sometimes people don't see it. The designer won't talk to you face to face but if you ask him anything he might grant you, he knows where you are going, he can shine a light infront of you just ask and don't be afraid you will never loose a thing asking.
You have choosen to go to the maze you have said that you can bare the adventure and that you can get from it to the other side, its trivial you said others have refrianed, it is your call, your case and it is you whom have to choose the way even if the choice is not to take anyway, it is like if your boss asks if anyone can take this job and you said that you can and he assigned it to you accordingly, he monitors you occasionaly and he will finally evaluate you.
Here you are and you have to find your way. What would you do?
I think this can be how life is like you are free to choose whatever way you like to find the trophy or to leave it.
I dunno if this had helped you or buzzled you or may be you won't even read. but I would like to clarify my symbols 1- Maze -> our life
2- Roads -> religions
3- Promoters -> people of religion
4- Trophy -> the truth
5- Favorized visual effect -> yourself and your thoughts
6- Smells -> desires and habbits you have brought to
7- Compass -> your heart
8- Designer -> God "yet he is all above this symboling"
I don't claim that this is how life is, it is far more complicated I only wanted to give an example. Now its your role to solve the problem or ignore, yet believe me it worth solving it.
What I wanted to say with the example before is follow your heart, take care from your desires, use your thinking after consulting your heart, don't make a pre-decision, ask for knowledge, ask god for derictions and keep faith he will answer back. Don't let your compass loose its directivity again, it is nice to know that that the compass can settle to some unique direction and it actually works, now you need to find the way out. Its your call now
Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well so much of what has been said is so thought provoking, and whether you have or have not found the way to God, and I'm not sure I have, of one thing I am sure. That for me there is definitely something greater than mankind, that we do not merely exist and then when we die there is nothing more ....
A turning point in my life was when I was diagnosed with a life threatening illness that will become terminal as I will eventually have to have a liver transplant, or die. Since then I have had to re-evaluate my future, and have made many plans that are about preserving health and happiness, involving leaving the UK. In doing this I have discovered the music of Schiller, a German band, which is ambience/trance. The lyrics of the song I first discovered are below, and have such meaning to me, that could be about just anything or anyone, including God. I hope they are of some comfort or understanding to some of you, as they are to me
I Feel You
i feel you ... in every stone in every leaf of every tree that you ever might have grown
i feel you ... in every thing in every river that might flow in every seed you might have sown
i feel you ... in every vein in every beating of my heart each breath i take in every breath i’ll ever take
i feel you ... anyway ... in every tear that i might shed in every word i’ve never said
i feel you ...
Posts: 61 | From: UK | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Like the lyrics in the song quoted, 'I feel you' but what/who is 'you'? For me the 'you' does not have to be a live person/thing, it's about something ethereal/spiritual or god, and everytime I hear that song in a situation where I do not choose to play it myself, I take it as a sign that whatever I just did, or am planning to do, is the right thing - and carry on with the plan.
It's worked for over 2 years so far, and I follow my reasoning because it would be rare to hear it played, and never in the UK have I heard it, except my house:)
Charm, it's hard when you're in a position where you cannot move out of the phase you're stuck in, and you've been through such a lot. Sometimes there's a reason for being stuck because often everything that happens is about the one thing you're struggling with, and you feel you can't get away from it. Perhaps this is a time when you have to sit and wait, and deal with it when it happens because all things lead back to it. Maybe now this leading back is meant to help you find your way through your difficulties, even things like the TV that provokes thought. I'm thinking of you.
Posts: 61 | From: UK | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by charm el feikh?: its the little things isnt it, there are no big things.. im waiting for something big, but its all in the details.
For me the journey was like doing a big jigsaw, without the picture on the box to know what it would eventually look like.
Sometimes it took ages to find where one piece went, particularly in the early stages. I would hunt around for its place, but it didn't make sense in the big picture, so I would put it on the side and only much later found out where it fitted when I could see it in relation to the other pieces.
Other times a whole group of pieces came together and filled in a corner or made one clear picture. Other times I would hunt hard to find a piece and it may take months before I found it.
It was a long slow job for me, taking about three years from the time I became conscious of God to being convinced that I had found the path I wanted to follow. Very few people get the blinding light on the road to Jericho that changes their life overnight...it is usually a long journey and requires you to keep your heart open to see the signposts on the road and to make an effort to find out where you are going and what it all means.
Posts: 4576 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
you know its funny because i am involved in this other post here in this forum at the moment! i am standing in front of a new question now which is "may islam be true?" i am in the very beginning and i don't know whats gonna happen...
but i wanted to tell you how i found god in the first place! i was leading a very atheistic life! i was not only an unbeliever but also making fun of god! i didn't believe in anything but pleasure...i was a great admirer of nietzsche and more dark figures than that... listening to horrible death music, dressing in black...
then one night i had a dream which was the only time in my life when i dreamed like that! remember that in that time i didnt believe in god and i didn't believe in anything irrational! but this dream was different than all other dreams i had had before... i felt it as the "truth"!!
ok in that dream i saw myself from outside... and i didnt see myself as a girl no i saw myself as a devil who was flying around under the ceiling of a big church laughing and despising and spitting on god!!!!
when i woke up after that dream i was so shocked... like i woke up spiritually... and this was the beginning of the biggest turning point in my life! i knew what i had done... for the first time in my life i realised how i had sinned and where i had gone and i realised what i had made of myself!!!
i was shocked but i didnt want to change my life too much... so i kept going without any major changes, the only difference that i stopped making fun of god and doing things that are obviously bad... i started to think about morals and how to be a good person... but i didn't want to change my life too much, i had a vision in mind of what i wanted to reach in this life and how i wanted to live so i didn't need any disturbance!
then step by step i got very sick physically, more and more, it started with small things then it expanded and soon i was a total wrack, i couldn't sleep or eat or do anything, i felt like i wanna throw up night and day, i had a horrible headache all the time, i couldn't breathe i felt like i'm choking!!! i was scared to sleep and scared to wake up and i started to have a beep in my ears... i also had some blood circulation collapses which made me fall to the ground in the middle of the day in the middle of crowded places! around 5 times the first aid had to come and bring me to the hospital where the doctors checked me from head to foot! but guess what! they didn't find anything! i was physically totally healthy.
so i started to realise that these sicknesses had psychological reasons and when i asked myself honestly i knew immediately the reason: i had to change my life, totally.
i gave up my studies, packed my things, left my flat and said goodbye to all my friends because i needed to go to my hometown to stay with my mom, have some time to think and reflect about how to rebuild my life, what i had to do. i then spent a few months doing nothing just reading and writing all my thoughts down, praying to god, searching for solutions, making a plan for my new life.
step by step i felt better and better and soon i was cured from all my illnesses (without any doctor or medicine!). i met some wonderful new people on the way who strenthened me, helped me to think positively and showed me a new side of life! without those people surely it would have been more hard...
but mainly the help came from god who revealed himself to me as an incredibly loving and merciful god, can you imagine he wasn't upset with me because of my past! on the contrary he was happy because i started to reach out to him.
since this horrible time in my life i know (not believe) that god exists and that he loves and cares for the human more than anyone can imagine! and i thank god for this dark time of my life because if i didn't have it i may never have turned to him... and i would have chosen a direction in my life which would (from my present point of view) never make me happy or give me peace.
Posts: 271 | From: germany | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
assalamu alykum wa rahmatu Allah wa barakatuh
any muslim here who read Saeeda's post know what sickness she was talking about which doctor didnt know it and what causes this sickness ?
Posts: 1201 | From: Egypt | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
"have some time to think and reflect about how to rebuild my life, what i had to do. i then spent a few months doing nothing just reading and writing all my thoughts down, praying to god, searching for solutions, making a plan for my new life."
thanks for your story, its comforting to hear that others didnt want to change everything too much, but when you know something has changed and more things will change soon, that everyone has found peace and happiness with the changes.
Posts: 5642 | From: hellonearth.myfastforum.org Forum Index | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Mr. Egypt, all these sicknesses i had had psychological reasons... the doctors call it "psychosomatic illnesses"....it means that your spirit/soul gets sick and then it goes over to your body! these sicknesses cannot be healed by medicine only by healing the root of the problem which is your sick heart/soul. some people are more vulnerable to this kind of sicknesses than others... in my case i got this sickness because i was stubborn and didn't want to change my life and submit my will totally under god...god knew that i would never do it if he didn't use force so he actually "forced me to happiness"! al-hamdulillah...
charm, believe me before all this happened i was searching for happiness like crazy everywhere (in parties, alcohol,fun etc.) but i couldn't find true happiness even if superficially everything seemed to be fine... but after this turn in my life, after i changed my life's direction...even in the darkest hours when all the world seemed to go dark and everything turned against me... it could never harm my general deep true happiness... this happiness is a true blessing and the biggest gift from god and he wants to give it to everyone you aswell!!! yo listen dont worry about the changes...because they will make you more happy not more miserable... they will free you not put you in prison!!! Posts: 271 | From: germany | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
I'm not afraid of the concept of God. The quest to find answers to the mysteries of the universe is a natural, ongoing one. What scares me is the brainwashed masses, who blindly follow whatever doctrine has been drummed into them, as they grow up.
Religion is the biggest sickness in the world today. They all preach tolerance, yet by definition, are fundamentally intolerant.
Consider the fairness of suggesting a human being has no choice but to follow the religion they are born into? Think about the lunacy of suggesting punishment by death, to those rejecting a certain faith?
Look around the world today. Rather than respect each individual's right to believe in anything (or nothing)...religions impose their framework on society, wherever they can.
I neither believe nor disbelieve in the concept of a 'creator'...a higher power, call 'God' what you will. I simply have no evidence, beyond questionable, man-made texts, written thousands of years ago.
How dare man have the arrogance, to assume they know 'God'? Worse, to impose cruel, ridiculously dated ideas on humanity - in the name of God - is deeply arrogant. If your god is a cruel, unbending, intolerant one, why do you choose to follow? Because you have been told to?
These forums contain the worst examples of righteous rankings, using 'God' as a supposed source for behaving like barbarians.
In answer to Charm's original post...it is human and normal for people to seek comfort in times of despair. Reaching out to seek this is what people do. Picking up the nearest 'God' label...and wearing it, to console yourself...is understandable. Religions recognise this...and pounce, like used-car salesmen, whenever the opportunity arises.
It deeply irritates me that so-called tolerant religions deny agnostics or atheists the right to participate fully in society. Like the Gods of ancient Egypt, all false Gods will fall, in time. Maybe then mankind can stop killing each other, in God's name...and act in a way that would make the creator (if one exists) happy.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
Can I ask you why are you here, I mean in this life? Why did people suffer? Why you are not happy even if you think you are? Why at the end of a day when you lie for a couple of minutes doing nothin you feel the emptiness of everything? why do we die? If there is a god what do you think of him? do you think he would play with us while we suffer all of this in life?
Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Bilbo, the questions you ask have been pondered by mankind, since the beginning of existence. It is natural to seek answers to these mysteries.
Perhaps, in the past, religions were invented, to soothe dark fears, as people didn't have the answers to the joys and terrors of life. This, I'm sure, is still the case - although scientific progress has shone light on many things. People have began to think for themselves, discard religion - and I feel this will be the way forward.
If there is a God, I have enough humility to restrain from labelling that entity with man's guesswork, on the origins of humanity.
If there is a God, I am happy to wait and learn why things are as they are. Is anything else, not simply human arrogance? Anything else is not respectful - as we simply don't know if God exists, or what form God takes.
In the meantime, I don't seek to impose my views on others. I understand that the motives of many people of faith are good. Unfortunately, using that faith to control others, negates the benefits of religion. I am open to the notion of 'God'...a creator. I am also open to the idea that there may be no God.
What I am not open to is religion exploiting decent human beings...by turning them into brainwashed robots.
Why do people suffer? Religion has much to answer regarding that question. Religion breeds intolerance and repression. For all the beautiful sentiments expressed in religious texts, they sit alongside, blood-thirsty, savage illustrations.
If you really believe in 'God'...why not respect God's creation - mankind? Why not allow people to be individuals, with strong hearts and minds? Why not allow everyone to contribute to the laws of society - women and non believers included?
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
The topic was like written to me, - Yes im afraid of religion. I think religion is what makes huge gaps between the peole in the world. Wars has been started because of religion and millions of lives has been/is being ruined because of religion. I cant say that im 100% athiest because I do believe in living a good and honest life, - maybe because Im afraid to be judged on my final day....
Posts: 1215 | From: Nowhere | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
People control people in many ways, which is not usually through religion many times it is because of money, envy or ego. Rightous religion identifies god and set some social rules it doesn't control your reactions. Rightous religion respects the human's choice to believe in whatever he/she wants, if this belief is not to impact on the religion itself, it is more like if you have a property it is yours, but don't claim that my property is yours and don't try to get me out of my property. then my defence can be called a legimated self-defence. Rightous religion doesn't forbid women or disblievers fom contributing in society according to the social laws, they can also use there religious laws in there matter which doesn't impact the society laws. It is men whom made men suffer, and this is not what I was talking about, I meant by my question the everyday suffering process in everything, but you brought a good point, back to your point it is people whom kill people depression, mental illness, arrogance, greed and hatrad cause destruction and wars, rightous wars would be for dignity, liberty and goodness. If evil is let to spread what will stop it when no one would take an action. Many times (most of the times) people kill for reasons that is not related to religion. Don't you think that people will not kill each other regardless of any religious conflict, it is evil that breeds the wars. And people let evil controls them because they want whatever it comes from (money, ego .. etc). If there is nothin we live for then everyone has his right to live the way he wants, it is a one time shot and no control over it, then why any restriction should be done on him/her, why do sombody has to stop killing when he/she enjoys it, why would somebody stop rapping when he enjoys it, it is his/her standards and his/her laws, why should he/she stop hatrad, ego or whatever. why should he/she follow the good path when the wrong path will get him/her faster to his/her target. If social laws are here to bound this then why if he/she is totally free why do we have to bound him/her to some other people laws not his/her law. If it is only the social law that bound somebody, then anyone whom have the oppertunity to do a crime and run away with it has the right to do this, and no one can blame him/her. It is his/her way of thinking, isn't it? If it is all a play, whom set the rules? Random process doesn't produce a rule, just ghosts It is man/woman whom can choose the path. If you have read my previous post, you would recognize I never said anything else.
Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
well, last night i was writing and there was a documentary on TV about rock stars wives, marvin gayes wife was on it and i just heard her say something like "till i meet him again", and all of a sudden i could picture my boyfriend in 'heaven' meeting me again... and for the first time ever THAT seemed like the more plausible event.
i felt a bit hot as i thought about it. from the second i imagined it, i could NOT now imagine we just die... game over... end of.
OK, so im now in a position where i seriously dont want to believe thats what happens... i nearly lost someone so close to me, so young... and im a mother, so naturally i am now even more worried about something happening to them... the fear of someone dying is now much more real and imminent. however, i cant rationalise this belief now that there IS something more to us... maybe in time i will, but right now i feel comforted at the thought that the separation wouldnt be permanent.
Posts: 5642 | From: hellonearth.myfastforum.org Forum Index | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
Your post is earnest...and you make sincere points. We simply see religion differently. I view organised religion as an obsolete social control mechanism, (the main ones, formed thousand of years ago - are irrelevant in key ways to today's world). You argue that 'righteous religions' allow people choice.
I ask then, is Islam a righteous religion? Is Catholicism a righteous religion? Which religions are righteous, in that they are tolerant, believing that those who don't follow their faith - or live as they advocate - will have equal access to 'God'....providing they have lived as good,decent human beings?
Doesn't Islam advocate death, for those rejecting the faith which they have been born into? Is this allowing individuals the freedom to choose for themselves? Catholics also suggest that once born a catholic, you are always one.
Why do religions like Catholicism, Christianity, Islam, preach that only true believers in their faith will get to access God? They all suggest that sinners, if they buy an 'access to heaven' card through their 'true' religion, will be given preference, over decent, good people. This is ridiculous. The strategy is painfully transparent - forcing people to obey insane rules.
Today's mainstream religions were formed when we knew far less about the universe, science, nature. Ludicrous clerics struggle to impose their interpretation on subjects not covered by original texts (women's dress, women driving cars, etc.)
Yes, wars would occur without religion - but isn't it telling that so many wars claim religious blessing? Isn't it obvious that humanity needs to move forward? Lets start thinking for ourselves? Why not reference religious wtexts for their beauty - in the way we do fine works of literature? Why not communicaqte with each other...and make a place for each individual in society - and have fair laws, which are not determined by any religious state?
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
I am new to this forum...and don't know any of the circumstances behind your comments. It is entirely natural, for people who are grieving, or in fear of losing a precious loved one, to think as you do. Losing those you love is the ultmate horror, the unthinkable thought. The intense fear that grips a person in such a situation is terrifying . I appreciate why people seek reassurance, comfort, a sense of connection. I hope you find the peace you seek.
Posts: 2953 | From: Slightly south of Azkaban. | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
SayWhatYouSee, Yes people changes religion to bend it to there "desire". In all religion there have been depression for religion scientests that opposes the government, usually there was a struggle between government and religion and when government understands the power of religion they espouse or embrace it so that they can use its power. afterwards, they try to change religion to fit to there 'desires', easy tactics which leads to more power. Wars that asks blessing from religious group is also another way to bend the religion to there fancy, as muslim I believe that original Christianity is a 'rightous religion' I believe that 'Islam' is a rightous religion, I believe that righteous religion doesn't depress others religion, as I have said righteous have the right to defend itself the way I stated before and have the right also to dig a way for people to hear my preachings and then they can choose whatever, and with this I don't mean war I mean any feasible way including war, as I have explained it is duty of rightoues to stop the spreading of evil with the rightous way "not killing civilians or stuff like this", I hope the idea is clear for you. Does Islam advocate death, for those rejecting the faith which they have been born into? I think this is not the case, Islam advocate death for whom trying to bend the religion or fight against it, yes governments has used death penilty for people whom recess. even though I am not entitled to argue in this but I have my believe that if this recess doesn't impact the islam in the way that this recessed person doesn't promote false claims against islam nor does he fights against it, I think it is his right, yet I don't need to impose my own ideas on religion, yes there was wars against recession in the beginning of islam but these wars were legimated because they have joepordized the faith itself. And yes Mohamed (PBUH) had ordered to kill some of the recessed people "by name" but this was because they have fought against Islam or have forged some false claims about Islam in general and some of them Mohamed (PBUH) have forgave them afterwards, the reason for him to order people to kill them is that they were promoting against islam or fighting against it, and as I told you religion have the right to defend itself. It is also valid that Mohamed(PBUH) have left a lot of recessed people especially the jews group whom have converted on day and reverted back on night plus many other incidences. The reason for me believing that recessed people have the right not to be killed came from my understanding for some verse in the quran. I really don't want to impose my idea as I might be wrong. Women, Surah (2) 137. Those who believe, then reject faith, then believe (again) and (again) reject faith, and go on increasing in unbelief,- Allah will not forgive them nor guide them nor guide them on the way.
As it seems here they have the right to reject faith "again and again", and even afterwards god said he will never permit them to his way, no sentence to death. Anyway I am not entitled to say what is the Islamic law for recession, actually it is not my decision to make, but I would like to argue with some Islamic clerk about this, I don't want to argue with someone whom have a totally wrong vision about islam like "ispy, Servant .. and whom is like them " I would rather talk to more rationale people about the idea. Recently a friend of mine had helped me with the links below it includes a couple of article that doesn't oppose my idea one of them was by Karadawee. here is the links "it is in arabic" http://www.islamonline.net/Arabic/contemporary/2002/02/article2b.shtml
Does Islam preach that only true believers in their faith will get to access God? does it suggest that sinners, if they buy an 'access to heaven' card through their 'true' religion, will be given preference, over decent, good people. Islam doesn't forbid nor admit anybody to heavens, it only states that your reason here is to worship god, if u do this worship god and no other and believe in his messengers, then no one and I mean no one in islam can judge you with your doom niether did quran judge any paticular man as going to hell except the major arrogants like "pharoh, abou lahab" or "satan". Do muslim have green card to heaven? the answer is definitly BIG NO. there are more than verse that states this in quran. Surah {18}, The cave
103. Say: "Shall we tell you of those who lose most in respect of their deeds?-
104. "Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life, while they thought that they were acquiring good by their works?"
105. They are those who deny the Signs of their Lord and the fact of their having to meet Him (in the Hereafter): vain will be their works, nor shall We, on the Day of Judgment, give them any weight.
106. That is their reward, Hell, because they rejected Faith, and took My Signs and My Messengers by way of jest.
more over in surah {2} 80. And they say: "The Fire shall not touch us but for a few numbered days:" Say: "Have ye taken a promise from Allah, for He never breaks His promise? or is it that ye say of Allah what ye do not know?"
81. Nay, those who seek gain in evil, and are girt round by their sins,- they are companions of the Fire: Therein shall they abide (For ever).
The answer is exclusive to all religions including islam.
Does science defines existance or god? Science can never define existance rather than describing it, no scientific equation is valid if it is opposed with real events, even if it is mathematically flawless, all kind of equation is always in a limit of error on observation, which is assumed to be null under zero noise.which this is arguable itelf. In quantum mechanics and modern science it is a valid pricicpale that there will always be some error in measuring any physical quantity "refering to Heisienberg measurment uncertainity principle" because of measuring itself , this principal is globalized (Hiesenberg's uncertainity principale) so that it is scientifically valid that it is absolutely impossible that a subject could exist on a definite place unless it have an infinte speed which opposes the absolute speed of light. Actually because of this a lot of elementry particles do exist other wise it wouldn't be possible to exist. Fancy but true. Does science define existance I say no it doesn't it just describes it. If laws where to be valid whom might hold it? not science or equation which will make the speed of light 300,000 KM/sec. It is very naive to say that science define religion or would define god. Science have only descriptive and predective role, if what is predicts was wrong this never defies science but it shows a flaw in the description technique used. yet science never hold its rules. As for clerics imposing issue on woman which I think is your major concern about religion, I have wrote before how men and women are to be viewed as my vision of how is islamic vision for woman's and man's role in life and society. I do agree with Hijab and I don't agree on restricting woman from driving
Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
sumat not right here ,
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic