Who then is this Jesus Christ and son of God ? Where did he come from ? Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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This very well known passage is actually a quote from Jesus.
“For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him. (John 3:16-17)
The quote below is taken from Jesus' court trial, from which the resulting conviction of 'blasphemy' led to his crucifixion. It's hard to think of Jesus as just a good moral teacher when you know that he thought himself to be God. Either he is a weirdo, or he is God!
Then the high priest said to him, “I demand in the name of the living God—tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.” Jesus replied, “You have said it. And in the future you will see the Son of Man seated in the place of power at God’s right hand and coming on the clouds of heaven.” (Matthew 26:63-64)
Posts: 3773 | From: unfinished thought | Registered: Nov 2008
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Issa son of Mariam is the only Messiah, it says so in the Qur'an, there isn't anyone under the name of Jesus Christ, sorry never heard of him.
John and Matthew are mortals, Allah knows best, He created them.
Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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Al-Ikhlas In the name of Allah,the Beneficent,the Merciful
Say: He is Allah, the One! Allah, the eternally Besought of all! He begetteth not nor was begotten. And there is none comparable unto Him.
Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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hell no he is not god nor do i believe he is the son of god. he was the son of a whore. but dont say that to the catholics. they get touchy about their so called virgin mary.
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Very interesting Dzosser, I like that video. Issa/Jesus does missa our sins away.
Tina, Muslims also believe that Jesus was born of a virgin. So you may be offending Muslims as well.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by of_gold: Very interesting Dzosser, I like that video. Issa/Jesus does missa our sins away.
Tina, Muslims also believe that Jesus was born of a virgin. So you may be offending Muslims as well.
well i aint tryin to offend anyone its my beliefs. nor am i tryin to push my belief on anyone.i just can not believe his mother was a virgin sorry.
Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by of_gold: Very interesting Dzosser, I like that video. Issa/Jesus does missa our sins away.
Yeah..but you won't like the part when he doesn't get nailed to a piece of wood and stabbed by some Roman soldier to get him done. Never happened you talking o the wrong guy. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by tina kamal: hell no he is not god nor do i believe he is the son of god. he was the son of a whore. but dont say that to the catholics. they get touchy about their so called virgin mary.
An important historical document which supports the teaching of Mary’s perpetual virginity is the Protoevangelium of James, which was written probably less than sixty years after the conclusion of Mary’s earthly life (around A.D. 120), when memories of her life were still vivid in the minds of many.
According to the world-renowned patristics scholar, Johannes Quasten: "The principal aim of the whole writing [Protoevangelium of James] is to prove the perpetual and inviolate virginity of Mary To begin with, the Protoevangelium records that when Mary’s birth was prophesied, her mother, St. Anne, vowed that she would devote the child to the service of the Lord, as Samuel had been by his mother (1 Sam. 1:11). Mary would thus serve the Lord at the Temple, as women had for centuries (1 Sam. 2:22), and as Anna the prophetess did at the time of Jesus’ birth (Luke 2:36–37). A life of continual, devoted service to the Lord at the Temple meant that Mary would not be able to live the ordinary life of a child-rearing mother. Rather, she was vowed to a life of perpetual virginity.
However, due to considerations of ceremonial cleanliness, it was eventually necessary for Mary, to have a guardian or protector who would respect her vow of virginity. Thus, according to the Protoevangelium, Joseph, an elderly widower who already had children, was chosen to be her spouse. (This would also explain why Joseph was apparently dead by the time of Jesus’ adult ministry, since he does not appear during it in the gospels, and since Mary is entrusted to John, rather than to her husband Joseph, at the crucifixion). before, in, and after the birth of Christ" (Patrology, 1:120–1).
According to the Protoevangelium, Joseph was required to regard Mary’s vow of virginity with the utmost respect. The gravity of his responsibility as the guardian of a virgin was indicated by the fact that, when she was discovered to be with child, he had to answer to the Temple authorities, who thought him guilty of defiling a virgin of the Lord. Mary was also accused of having forsaken the Lord by breaking her vow. Keeping this in mind, it is an incredible insult to the Blessed Virgin to say that she broke her vow by bearing children other than her Lord and God, who was conceived through the power of the Holy Spirit.
The perpetual virginity of Mary has always been reconciled with the biblical references to Christ’s brethren through a proper understanding of the meaning of the term "brethren." The understanding that the brethren of the Lord were Jesus’ stepbrothers (children of Joseph) rather than half-brothers (children of Mary) was the most common one until the time of Jerome (fourth century). It was Jerome who introduced the possibility that Christ’s brethren were actually his cousins, since in Jewish idiom cousins were also referred to as "brethren." The Catholic Church allows the faithful to hold either view, since both are compatible with the reality of Mary’s perpetual virginity.
Neither the Gospel accounts nor the early Christians attest to the notion that Mary bore other children besides Jesus. The faithful knew, through the witness of Scripture and Tradition, that Jesus was Mary’s only child and that she remained a lifelong virgin.
huh?? i cant read all that crap/ if u cant tell me what u wanted to say in short script plz dont tell me nothin at all thanks.
Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Unfinsished thought - Please START thinking and using scripture- Not some half baked loon from 100 years after Jesus.
Despite official Church teaching, we may well question whether after the birth of Jesus Mary remained “ever virgin.” Or did she have other children by Joseph after the birth of Jesus? Does it matter? Yes, if the truth matters. So what do the Scriptures say? Matthew records that Joseph “had no intercourse with [Mary] until she gave birth to a son ,” Jesus. (Matthew 1:25) Commenting on the significance of “until” here, the Revised Standard Version, Catholic edition, published by the Catholic Truth Society, London, claims: “This means only that Joseph had nothing to do with the conception of Jesus. It implies nothing as to what happened afterwards.” However, there is no basis in Scripture for assuming that nothing happened afterward, that Joseph and Mary never had a normal marriage. No prophecy even hinted at such a thing, no divine requirement called for it. Their intimate life together and any resulting parenthood had no bearing at all on Jesus’ earthly ministry or on his subsequent activities in the heavens. Indeed, far from supporting the notion that Mary was ever virgin, the Gospels state that Jesus was Mary’s firstborn and that he had half brothers and half sisters. Mark writes that in Jesus’ hometown, Nazareth, he preached in the synagogue to people who recognized him. Most were astounded at Jesus’ teaching and said: “Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon, and are not his sisters here with us?”—Mark 6:2, 3, RSV, Catholic edition; Luke 2:7.7 And she gave birth to her son, the firstborn , and she bound him with cloth bands and laid him in a manger, because there was no place for them in the lodging room.
Catholic theologians claim that these ‘brothers and sisters’ were really cousins. Yet the New Catholic Encyclopedia (Vol. 9, p. 337) admits that “the Greek words . . . that are used to designate the relationship between Jesus and these relatives have the meaning of full blood brother and sister.” These are the words adelphos and adelphé. However, the word for cousin is anepsios and for relatives, syggenon. (Colossians 4:10; Luke 1:36) There is no sound reason for thinking that the Gospel writers got these words mixed up. (Compare Mark 6:4; Luke 14:12.) Nor is there reason to deny that Joseph and Mary had a family after the birth of Jesus.
the testimony of the Bible is simple, reasonable and clear. All you are doing is confusing clear statements in the Bible and making them unintelligible - exactly what Satan wants.Posts: 148 | Registered: Nov 2007
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Who was Jesus Christ? To me it is a person, living an extra-ordinary life, thousands of years ago. Because his life was so extra-ordinary, he triggered people intrest and imagenation.
He stayed in people's intrest, mainly because other inherited his way of thinking, and became followers. What started as a sekt, became a religion. His life has been described hunderds of years later, so in fact it are all customs, just reported in the way the writer's intentions.
There are differences between the several exploinations, the Nag Hammadi scripts are a famous example.
So, to me Jesus Christ is a mythical person, someone who indeed has lived, but nobody knows the exact truth. There are several occurrences described, that are impossible in scientifical way. So, we have to look at it as a coloured describtion. In my opinion he wasn't the son of God , and his mother wasn't a virgin in a literally way, but people have used metaphores, to indicate how special they were.
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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Tina Kamal , if you can't read the "Crap" that UNfinished thought wrote, so please stop posting here, as you seem ignorant to the level that no one even can describe. What do you know about anything?? Have you read anything about Mary who you have just called a whore?? Have you ever read the bible, Old Testament or even the Quran? Have ever tried to read about Buddha or Hindi religions, do you have any interest in religion at all???
If no, so please stop posting and stop wasting everybody's time here trying to reply to your posts.
Question Marks: You are trying to say that Jesus was a myth, this is really funny. The existence of Jesus is a truth which was described by all holy books if you believe in any of them. If not, all history books mentioned Jesus and his birth which was a very focal point in history which have even defined the way we describe the date was it After or before Jesus birth. About Mary and whether she was a virgin or not, I do not see why they would lie about it and fabricate that she was a virgin?? What will anybody gain from fabricating such a story, but any way if you want to know the proof of her virginity we can talk here for hours but you should be ready and prepared to open all the sources that I will give you to read.
quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: Issa son of Mariam is the only Messiah, it says so in the Qur'an, there isn't anyone under the name of Jesus Christ, sorry never heard of him.
John and Matthew are mortals, Allah knows best, He created them.
My friend, what is the meaning of the Messiah? Do you know what is the meaning of Christ???
Messiah which the the same as Al maseeh means AL mamsouh in Arbaic or the Anointed one in English.
Now what is the meaning of Christ? It is the the English Transation for the Greek work Khristos which mean the Anointed so both Messiah and Christ mean the same which is Anointed .
Posts: 14 | From: UAE | Registered: May 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Coptic Philosopher: Just hints for the following people:
Tina Kamal , if you can't read the "Crap" that UNfinished thought wrote, so please stop posting here, as you seem ignorant to the level that no one even can describe. What do you know about anything?? Have you read anything about Mary who you have just called a whore?? Have you ever read the bible, Old Testament or even the Quran? Have ever tried to read about Buddha or Hindi religions, do you have any interest in religion at all???
If no, so please stop posting and stop wasting everybody's time here trying to reply to your posts.
Question Marks: You are trying to say that Jesus was a myth, this is really funny. The existence of Jesus is a truth which was described by all holy books if you believe in any of them. If not, all history books mentioned Jesus and his birth which was a very focal point in history which have even defined the way we describe the date was it After or before Jesus birth. About Mary and whether she was a virgin or not, I do not see why they would lie about it and fabricate that she was a virgin?? What will anybody gain from fabricating such a story, but any way if you want to know the proof of her virginity we can talk here for hours but you should be ready and prepared to open all the sources that I will give you to read.
Thanks
I think you misunderstand. Of course the person Jesus Christ has excisted, but the stories that are written down were personal interpretations, and therefore mythical, just like all the other stories about mythological figures. That's why I also think the way they wrote it down were metaphores. When I want to describe someone really good, became pregnant under shady circumstances, and I want to underline the good, then I can use terms like pure, pristine, virginal, unspoiled, untainted, untouched, maidenly. The old scripts are written by different persons in different languages, and also the translations again are personal interpretations. It is scientifical impossible to become pregnant without having intercourse, so that's why I think it was a metaphore.
Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Coptic Philosopher: Just hints for the following people:
Tina Kamal , if you can't read the "Crap" that UNfinished thought wrote, so please stop posting here, as you seem ignorant to the level that no one even can describe. What do you know about anything?? Have you read anything about Mary who you have just called a whore?? Have you ever read the bible, Old Testament or even the Quran? Have ever tried to read about Buddha or Hindi religions, do you have any interest in religion at all???
If no, so please stop posting and stop wasting everybody's time here trying to reply to your posts.
Question Marks: You are trying to say that Jesus was a myth, this is really funny. The existence of Jesus is a truth which was described by all holy books if you believe in any of them. If not, all history books mentioned Jesus and his birth which was a very focal point in history which have even defined the way we describe the date was it After or before Jesus birth. About Mary and whether she was a virgin or not, I do not see why they would lie about it and fabricate that she was a virgin?? What will anybody gain from fabricating such a story, but any way if you want to know the proof of her virginity we can talk here for hours but you should be ready and prepared to open all the sources that I will give you to read.
Thanks
I think you misunderstand. Of course the person Jesus Christ has excisted, but the stories that are written down were personal interpretations, and therefore mythical, just like all the other stories about mythological figures. That's why I also think the way they wrote it down were metaphores. When I want to describe someone really good, became pregnant under shady circumstances, and I want to underline the good, then I can use terms like pure, pristine, virginal, unspoiled, untainted, untouched, maidenly. The old scripts are written by different persons in different languages, and also the translations again are personal interpretations. It is scientifical impossible to become pregnant without having intercourse, so that's why I think it was a metaphore.
Well, this is the whole story about religions right? the religion as per the jewich books speaks about the saviour and tried to explain how would he look like and how would he be, if you are interested you can read the following verse from the old testament: Isaiah 7:14 " Therefore, the Lord himself will give you a sign: The Virgin will be with a Child and will give birth to a son and will call him Immanuel (Which means God is among us).
By the way this translation was done before Jesus which is known as the Septuagint translation where the old testament was translated from Hebrew to Greek.
Posts: 14 | From: UAE | Registered: May 2009
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posted
If God had a son, why would he have one? He's God, he'd have millions!
Posts: 4446 | From: Egyptian in Sydney | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Coptic Philosopher: Just hints for the following people:
Tina Kamal , if you can't read the "Crap" that UNfinished thought wrote, so please stop posting here, as you seem ignorant to the level that no one even can describe. What do you know about anything?? Have you read anything about Mary who you have just called a whore?? Have you ever read the bible, Old Testament or even the Quran? Have ever tried to read about Buddha or Hindi religions, do you have any interest in religion at all???
If no, so please stop posting and stop wasting everybody's time here trying to reply to your posts.
Question Marks: You are trying to say that Jesus was a myth, this is really funny. The existence of Jesus is a truth which was described by all holy books if you believe in any of them. If not, all history books mentioned Jesus and his birth which was a very focal point in history which have even defined the way we describe the date was it After or before Jesus birth. About Mary and whether she was a virgin or not, I do not see why they would lie about it and fabricate that she was a virgin?? What will anybody gain from fabricating such a story, but any way if you want to know the proof of her virginity we can talk here for hours but you should be ready and prepared to open all the sources that I will give you to read.
Thanks
I think you misunderstand. Of course the person Jesus Christ has excisted, but the stories that are written down were personal interpretations, and therefore mythical, just like all the other stories about mythological figures. That's why I also think the way they wrote it down were metaphores. When I want to describe someone really good, became pregnant under shady circumstances, and I want to underline the good, then I can use terms like pure, pristine, virginal, unspoiled, untainted, untouched, maidenly. The old scripts are written by different persons in different languages, and also the translations again are personal interpretations. It is scientifical impossible to become pregnant without having intercourse, so that's why I think it was a metaphore.
Well, this is the whole story about religions right? the religion as per the jewich books speaks about the saviour and tried to explain how would he look like and how would he be, if you are interested you can read the following verse from the old testament: Isaiah 7:14 " Therefore, the Lord himself will give you a sign: The Virgin will be with a Child and will give birth to a son and will call him Immanuel (Which means God is among us).
By the way this translation was done before Jesus which is known as the Septuagint translation where the old testament was translated from Hebrew to Greek.
The story is about Who is Jesus Christ? For me Jesus Christ is what I have been describing. You don't have to agree with me, most religious persons won't, but this is how I see him...
Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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An even better question would be, why would 'he' have any at all? If as claimed, God is eternal, why would he need a son? And in response to that, if someone says, that the purpose is to spread God's word, well then, can't he simply "create" that messenger, instead of "procreating" it; he is God after all, no?
The reason many people have offspring in the first place, is because they realize they are not eternal, and therefore are urged to reproduce an offspring who would carry on their heritage. God on the other hand, has no such problem; he is supposed to be eternal. And if his only desire to have "a son", is for some reason to keep him company, then would it not simply be easy enough to just "create" that company, as he does with his other *creations*?
I dunno, but imo, saying that God's "creation" is also God's "offspring", is almost akin to saying a car can be some human's offspring. Humans for instance, don't "reproduce" or "procreate" cars; rather, they manufacture or design cars.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: If as claimed, God is eternal, why would he need a son? And in response to that, if someone says, that the purpose is to spread God's word, well then, can't he simply "create" that messenger, instead of "procreating" it; he is God after all, no?
Why would he need a son? In order to reconciliate mankind to Himself.
Being at peace with God is not automatic, because by nature you are separated from God. This separation is the "something wrong" that is the root of our selfishness, loneliness, and dark feelings. Through many immoral and amoral acts, thoughts and attitudes, we continue to grieve the ONE who cares for us most. That is ALL of us, no matter how moral or upright we may seem on the surface. If you search your own heart honestly, you already know this is true. This has caused a split between us and the One who made us and loves us. This split is called sin.
Also the bondage of sin is psycological. "Whoever commits sin is the slave of sin"; a slave is not free to choose. The bondage of sin is hidden in our unconscious. A sinner is just like a toxicomaniac who claims that he can stop when he wants, which is absolutely false. In other words a sinner is a slave of his own unconscious, that is he is a slave of himself.
When we consider God's omnipotence, we must conclude that he is capable of anything but violating his own character. God is so Holy that He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, unless we are reconciled, unless that sin nature that we all have is blotted out, we cannot enter into Heaven where God is.
Because Jesus is God, and because we are mystically united to him, our union with Jesus is a very real and special union with God. Because He loves us, God cannot stand to allow this split to remain. But because He is perfect, He cannot allow our sin to go unpunished without ceasing to be perfect, because He would then cease to be God.
Isaiah 59:2 Your iniquities(wrong doings) have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden His face from you. Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Posts: 3773 | From: unfinished thought | Registered: Nov 2008
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quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: [QUOTE]The reason many people have offspring in the first place, is because they realize they are not eternal, and therefore are urged to reproduce an offspring who would carry on their heritage. God on the other hand, has no such problem; he is supposed to be eternal. And if his only desire to have "a son", is for some reason to keep him company, then would it not simply be easy enough to just "create" that company, as he does with his other *creations*?
It is important not be confused. God did not create Jesus. Jesus is God, and he has always existed.
Jesus is the 'word' of God and was begotten in flesh for the purpose of revealing God to us. For instance, John 1:14 declares that, because the Word, the eternal Son, became flesh and lived among us as the only begotten (monogenes) of the Father we have seen the Father's glory, full of grace and truth. John twice again identifies Jesus as the only begotten (monogenes) of the Father, given to reveal the Father's love to the world and so to save it.
Posts: 3773 | From: unfinished thought | Registered: Nov 2008
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quote:Indeed, far from supporting the notion that Mary was ever virgin, the Gospels state that Jesus was Mary’s firstborn and that he had half brothers and half sisters. Mark writes that in Jesus’ hometown, Nazareth, he preached in the synagogue to people who recognized him. Most were astounded at Jesus’ teaching and said: “Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon, and are not his sisters here with us?”—Mark 6:2,
Sorry Kalos, but I'll disagree with you. Although the Bible says that Jesus had brothers, this doesn't mean that they were necessarily sons of Mary. In this case, the brothers of Jesus could be other relatives, such as cousins. Aramaic, the language spoken by Jesus and his apostles, had no word for "cousin," so cousins and other close relatives were often referred to as brothers. For example, Abraham's nephew Lot was called his brother (Gen. 14:14).
We can also see evidence in the biblical texts that Mary had chosen to be a virgin. When the angel Gabriel tells Mary that she will bear a son, Mary asks, "How shall this be, since I have no husband?" (Luke 1:34). At this point, Mary was engaged to Joseph. Why would she then be so surprised at being told she would conceive? If she were planning on having children with Joseph in the usual way, it wouldn't make sense for her to ask how she would be able to have a child. This question makes sense only if Mary was already planning to remain a virgin.
Another source that supports belief in Mary's perpetual virginity is the Protoevangelium of James . It was written around A.D. 120, when some of those who had known the apostles were still alive. It records that Mary was dedicated before her birth to serve the Lord in the temple, as Samuel had been dedicated by his mother (1 Sam. 1:11). This required perpetual virginity of Mary so that she could completely devote herself to the service of the Lord.
The belief that Mary was always a virgin has been held since the earliest days of Christianity. Many of the early Church Fathers, including Athanasius, Jerome, and Augustine, expressed this belief. To give just one example, Augustine said in A.D. 411 that Mary was "a Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual."
The word until here just says what happened up to the time of Christ's birth. It doesn't imply anything about what happened after that, although our modern use of the word until seems to imply that. For an example of this, look at 2 Samuel 6:23, which says, "Michal the daughter of Saul had no children till the day of her death." We're obviously not supposed to assume that she had children after she died.
Also, in biblical times, the term firstborn had great importance. The firstborn was to be consecrated to the Lord (Ex. 13:2); the parents were to redeem every firstborn son (Ex. 34:20). They weren't supposed to wait until they had a second child to redeem the firstborn, and so the first son born to a woman was called the firstborn regardless of whether or not she had other children later on.
It is very reasonable to interpret the texts as showing that Jesus did not have brothers. If Jesus did have brothers, why would he have entrusted Mary to the beloved disciple, John, at the foot of the cross (John 19:26-27)? He would have had surviving siblings who would have taken care of her. It would be surprising for Jesus to release his brothers from their obligation to their mother, especially because he criticized the Pharisees for neglecting the support of their own parents in Matthew 15:3-6.
Mary and Joseph were not an ordinary married couple. They were entrusted with raising the Son of God. This circumstance was so unusual that their marriage could not have been an ordinary one, because the child they nurtured was no ordinary child.
Posts: 3773 | From: unfinished thought | Registered: Nov 2008
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[QUOTE]The reason many people have offspring in the first place, is because they realize they are not eternal, and therefore are urged to reproduce an offspring who would carry on their heritage. God on the other hand, has no such problem; he is supposed to be eternal. And if his only desire to have "a son", is for some reason to keep him company, then would it not simply be easy enough to just "create" that company, as he does with his other *creations*?
It is important not be confused. God did not create Jesus. Jesus is God, and he has always existed.
Jesus is the 'word' of God and was begotten in flesh for the purpose of revealing God to us. For instance, John 1:14 declares that, because the Word, the eternal Son, became flesh and lived among us as the only begotten (monogenes) of the Father we have seen the Father's glory, full of grace and truth. John twice again identifies Jesus as the only begotten (monogenes) of the Father, given to reveal the Father's love to the world and so to save it.
It is hard to not be confused by something that doesn't make sense. For instance, in one breath, you proclaim that Jesus is God's son, and then in another, you say no, Jesus is God himself. Which is it?...you seem to be confused yourself, or are you saying God is his own son, LOL, or alternatively, God fathered himself?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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