quote: I know there's a hadith that says you should wipe yourself with a musk-scented cloth in addition to pouring water over yourself or something like that
where dahlia? tell us the hadith verse
The minimum that is required for ghusl is to ensure that water reaches every part of the body, even beneath the hair. But it is better if it is done in the manner mentioned in the hadeeth from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), when Asma bint Shakl asked him how a menstruating woman should do ghusl. He (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "One of you should take her water and lotus leaves and purify herself and purify herself well. Then she should pour water over her head and rub it vigorously, so that it reaches the roots of her hair, and pour water over herself. Then she should take a piece of cloth that is scented with musk and purify herself with it." Asma said: "How should she purify herself with it?" He said: Subhaan Allaah, let her purify herself with it." Aaishah said to her: "She should follow the traces of blood."
I guess taking a shower would also do the job. But, hey, if you have lotus leaves and a few servants around, why not do it this way if it's *sunnah*?
And what's this thing about "traces of blood"??? Sorry, sheikh, but most women do NOT run around with "traces of blood" running down their bodies when they are menstruating! Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Ya Ragal: It's up to the indiviual it's in haddith,
OK ... do I understand you right that you're saying it's somehow recommended, but it's up to everyone to decide for themselves whether they want to follow this recommendation or not?
quote:Originally posted by Ya Ragal: it's not only pouring water over yourself it's a particular way of washing.
Mmh ... well, yes, but I didn't think it was essential for the sake of this discussion to go too much into the details.
quote:Originally posted by Ya Ragal: wudu and then washing from the right side, same as after sexual relations, it's essential for me and for others that i've met,
Fine, that makes sense. But would you say that it's essential for everyone who wants to practice his / her faith properly? Or would you say that if someone doesn't care for those things at all it's fine and doesn't matter? Would you find it ok if someone does this, or would you secretly think that the person isn't practicing their faith correctly?
quote:Originally posted by Ya Ragal: It was also on the tv giving islamic advice, musk isn't that expensive it costs 12LE a shop in the uk sells it for £2.50 same as amber
How much do you spend on perfumes?? £20+ i wear musk and amber anyway i prefer it to perfume
Not sure what you're trying to say here or whether you've read my previous post properly. Yes, you might get musk-scented oils or perfumes cheaply, but do you know what's in there? I personally like the smell of musk very much, and I use it sometimes. But I'm very cautious about what I put in or on my body, there's so much stuff sold freely that can actually harm you that it doesn't hurt to inform yourself. So I've done some research and what I've learned about musk was not so nice. So, frankly speaking, I would be very, very reluctant to put something like that on some very sensitive tissue. So - back to religion - does it really make sense to declare things like that "sunna"?
Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
quite interesting and I would like to join, well my opinion is that sunnah and quran are bounded in some issues and this has actually acknowledged in the quran itself, as allah ordered muslim to obey Mohamed's commands and follow his deeds, for instance in quran god have ordered praying but the actual way, time and number of prays is sunnah, and this is common upon all muslims except for minor changes like the way they end, some gestures and exact timing of prays .. issues like that .. also quran has ordered us to do ablution before each prayer and in quran it has been clarified that you should wash some specific places in the ablution like hands, face, arms to elbows, hair and feet, in sunnah it specifies the way this is for instance from sunnah we know that not all our hair should be splattered with water just pass your hand on your hair or fifth of it.. also sunnah describes issues like the way we bath for "ganabah" which also is described in quran but not how .. so my opinion on sunnah is that it is a kind of discriptive and generous practice for quranic and islamic behavior, one shouldn't totally do all of it niether should he leave it, and there are issues that are totally important to describe islamic rituals in sunnah, as for laws, most of islamic laws are in quran these are the commands and some of the practice have happened in sunnah, as for stories about prophet well for me it quite discribe a situation for islamic leader in a society where force is the only way to acknowledge existance, my opinion is that what matters the most about islam and this is in my opinion the true points of the whole religion are: 1- Allah, his description as one and only one like nothin else and that he is the creator, I have my own preception of allah which totally matches with what I read in quran and islmic culture, I don't imagine him as being bounded or alike which is the major point of the whole islamic religion, my believing in god comes from my believing that any model needs a rules and the rules or axioms we living at aren' just our of chance, I can go about this point for hours with my own axiom and my own proof of this axiom true existance. 2- Worship, which is the real reason for us to exist here in this life, we are not here to gather money or just for a some decades and the journey shall end, we believe that our reason is worshipping allah and that all our deeds will be set upon him and that's followed with our believing that there is heavens and hell as our final end, my believe in this comes from my own believe in god goodness for that if it is a play then the almighty god has truely been cruel to majority of people actually all of them for the reasons that all people suffer even if you have no trouble you will suffer at least if you got cut with the knife and we all shall die that's true, I precieve god as being good and that's why I can't imagine that we are here for just some decades and out we go. my believe in the goodness of god is what makes me believe in worshipping him and this believe doesn't come also from nothin, I have my own prove of concept about it which also can take hours yet I think just follow your instinct on this issue, and also leads to next point. 3- The message, we believe in the message that allah had made and my prespective for the reason of such message comes from believing in allah himself along with believing that my life is just not nothin, for that we need some guidance from the lord to our reason of life and his commands, we will always follow our paths yet people need his guidance to acknowledge the reason of there own existance which I described before in 2 and comes along with his "subhannuh w ta'allah" existance, this believing comes with other believings like the angels, other books, the fate as our own test exam we have our own good and bad fate as a fair test and will be followed with fair qualification .. so for me it is just a test although I may fail for some of the questions "well I think most of it" yet I think that his mercifullness will follow me if I have been merciful with other and myself, giving me the whole meaning of my life. Sometimes I wonder what is it like with other people's exams as we all have different fates, yet I always try to focus on mine and I try to contact people just to know there intentions hopefully we can get some wisedom from each other experience and I might get some free answers for the next question in life, it is like the pre-test discussion that you can go through when you have a very hard problem and you want to see how other's handled it and from my experience many people can get the true answer from different way and even if not now if they really presue the answer some way along they will get to the true answer. 4- Indulgeness of life, this is my fourth prespective which is that trying to control what can deflect me from focusing on my exam, and I try to point and sometimes even try to prevent this form happening to others, as I believe it can be kind of duty, yet to tell you the truth I truely care about me the most, just focusing on my exam is what is the most important among the road .. not that I am doing well I am failing yet I will always search for my answers.
that's the prophet's creed as my opinion and that's what the sunnah is as my opinion, I dunno to where I am going or others are, what I know of is that if you believe in god and gave him just enough of your time to think of him then believe me he will return that back to you
Posts: 1022 | From: cairo | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by sheba76: Where did the Islamic Creed come from? There is so much in it that contradicts Islam. Kind of creepy.
you need to read this to understand what creeds mean in islam
There have been thousands and thousands of great, sincere scholars of Islam, generation after generation, since the time of the pious companions to this day. No time has passed without there being someone who stood to establish the evidence of Allah against the people.
In spite of this fact, only four scholars have achieved fame. The first of them was born at the end of the first century, and the last died before the middle of third century, i.e., they lived during a span of only one hundred and fifty years. Then what is the reason for the fame of the four Aimmah (pl. of Imam)? Why are most of the people confined to them in matters of Fiqh (Jurisprudence)? What attitude does the Ummah have towards these Aimmah (may Allah bless them)?
1- Imam Abu Haneefah (RA):
Chronologically, the first of these Aimmah is Imam An Nu'man Abu Haneefah (RA). He was born in 80 A.H, and died in 150 A.H. He grew up in Al-Koofah and became famous in Fiqh and opinion. 'Umar bin Hubairah, then ruler of 'Iraq, tried to make him the chief justice but he refused. Then Al-Khaleefa Abu Ja'far Al-Mansoor coaxed him to accept the position but he refused. As a result he was imprisoned until his death. He earned his living as a cloth merchant and spent his life teaching in Al-Koofah and Baghdad. Allah blessed him with a group of devoted students who learned from him and put down what he said. Among them were Abu Yoosuf, Muhammad bin Al-Hassan Ash-Shaybanee, and Zufar bin Al-Huthayl. Imam Abu Haneefah achieved such great fame in his use of analogy and opinion and in the establishment of the proof of his opinion to the extent that Imam Malik said of him, "I saw a man whom if I asked to prove that this pillar is gold, he will be able to prove it!"
This incident, of course, showed the power of his reasoning in convincing people. Imam Ash-Shafi'ee said, "People are dependent on Abu Haneefah for Fiqh."
His method of teaching was as follows: He would gather with his followers in the Masjid and give them a problem. Then everyone would go back to search for a solution, and later they would gather again with their answers. In the end the Imam would analyze, criticize, or reject their opinions and give his own opinion, which would be recorded by his students. He often prohibited his students from writing everything said. Once he said to Abu Yoosuf, "O, Ya'qoob, do not write of me whatever I say, for we are human beings. We say something today and turn back on it the following day, and we say something tomorrow and cancel it the day after."
The Imam depended on opinion to a great extent because he did not have many correct Ahadeeth (sayings and traditions of the Prophet) at hand, and therefore, his school of Fiqh came to be known as the school of opinion. This school came under heavy fire and criticism from the school of Hadeeth, which started with the advent of Imam Malik bin Anas (RA) and achieved popularity with the coming of Imam Ash-Shafi'ee (RA). It reached its pinnacle with Imam Ahmed (RA).
This happened because Imam Malik put together Al-Muwatta, which was agreed upon to be the most correct book in its time, after Al-Qur'an. Then Ash-Shafi'ee, who read Al-Muwatta and learned from Imam Malik, had access to additional correct Ahadeeth. Later, Imam Ahmed completed his great book, Al-Musnad, in which he included 40,000 Hadeeth, and this has been the largest reference work of As-Sunnah.
This collection was influential in putting to an end many of the opinions adopted through Ijtihad (mental capability to extract rulings) by the school of opinion which unknowingly opposed the authentic Hadeeth.
2- Imam Malik (RA):
After this commentary on the school of opinion and the school of Hadeeth we now turn to the second of the four A-immah, Imam Malik, may Allah have mercy on him. He was born in 93 A.H., and died in 179' A.H., i.e. twenty nine years after the death of Imam Abu Haneefah.
Malik grew up in Al-Madeenah. He loved knowledge and respected and glorified the Sunnah of the Prophet (peace be upon him). He was only 20 years old when the scholars bore witness to his knowledge and proclaimed him capable of Ijtihad and giving Fatawa.
Malik compiled Al-Muwatta on Al-Mansoor's incentive, who then wanted to make it law for all the people. Malik, however, refused to allow his book to be made into law and told him that knowledge was dispersed in different provinces and that he had compiled what had reached him and what he had found correct. Malik did not escape problems with the rulers. Complaints were made against him to Abu Ja'far by the uncle of Al-Mansoor, Abu Ja'far, then, he was flogged until his shoulders were dislodged. He liked to give dictation in his lessons and did not like interruptions. This is in full contrast to the method employed by Imam Abu Haneefah. In spite of the fact that Malik learned Fiqh from his teacher Rabee'ah bin Abdul Rahman, who opined to a great degree and thus came to be known as "Rabee'ah of the opinion." he despised opinion and said, "I wish I were given a lash for every opinion I gave so that I may be free of guilt on the Day of Judgement."
Imam Malik's reputation spread, and delegations of students and scholars from as far as Al-Maghrib and Al-Andalus came to him with questions, seeking his knowledge, and his Fiqh was recorded by devoted students.
3- Imam Ash-Shafi'ee (RA):
Of the greatest legacies that Imam Malik left was his student Ash-Shafi'ee (150 - 204 A.H.), the diligent student who memorized Al-Muwatta and read it to Malik. Ash Shafi'ee started giving people Fatwa when he was only 15 years old. Muslim bin Khalid bore witness to this and said, "Give Fatwa, Abu Abdullah, by Allah you have reached the position where you can give Fatwa."
Ash-Shafi'ee shuttled between Makkah and Al-Madeenah and surprised people with his knowledge of Al-Qur'an, his outstanding Fiqh, his expertise in As-Sunnah, and his sweet, perfect language. A mistake was never found in his language. A person like Ahmed bin Hanbal sat in his lessons; and when Mahfooth bin Abu Tawbah Al-Baghdadee asked him, "O, Abu Abdullah, there is Sufyan bin 'Uyaynah lecturing in the corner of the Masjid?" Ahmed replied, "That I can miss, but not this!"
Imam Ash-Shafi'ee toured the Islamic provinces, and he travelled to Iraq and debated with Imam Abu Haneefah's students, scholars such as Muhammad bin Al-Hasan Ash-Shaybane and Zufar. They said that they renounced one third of the opinions of Imam Abu Haneefah and followed the Ijtihad and opinion of Imam Ash-Shafi'ee. This exemplifies that the A-immah and their students were searching for the truth and not following blindly.
Ahmad bin Hanbal (RA) had a great love for his contemporary and teacher Imam Ash-Shafi'ee although they did have differences on some matters of Fiqh. They disagreed, for example, about the ruling regarding the Muslim who does not pray and the one who takes back a present he gave, and they debated on many other matters. Imam Ash-Shafi'ee benefitted from many authentic Ahadeeth during his time with Ahmed bin Hanbal. Ash-Shafi'ee used to say to Ahmed, "You know the Hadeeth better than I do, so what you find correct, let us know in order that we may act accordingly."
Imam Ash-Shafi'ee then travelled to Egypt and remained there. His journey was a blessing for the Egyptians who surrounded him and learned from him. He died in 204 A.H. When the news of his death reached Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal, he was deeply grieved; and he cried incessantly until his son Abdullah, seeing his state of grief, asked him, "Father! Who was this man Ash-Shafi'ee?" He said, "O my son! Ash-Shafi'ee was as the sun is to this world and as the health is to the body. Can you find a replacement for these two things?" This is the height of loyalty and sincerity.
4- Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (RA):
The fourth Imam in chronological order is Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal Ash-Shaybanee (RA). He was born in 164 A.H., and died in Baghdad on a Friday in 241 A.H.
Imam Ahmed started learning the knowledge of Hadeeth at a tender age. He listened to his teachers in Baghdad and then traveled to Al-Hijaz and to Al-Yemen to acquire Hadeeth. He performed Hajj on foot several times. He started compiling what he heard until he had collected a great number of Ahadeeth.
He became famous among people by his piety and goodness, his lack of concern for worldly things and his personal cleanliness to the extent that he became the example for these attributes. He used to base his Fatwa on Hadeeth, and he rarely gave a mere opinion. Actually, he disliked giving opinions and said, "To me a weak Hadeeth is better than opinion." Al-Khallal, Ahmed's student, said of him, "Ahmed had written books of opinion and memorized them, but later he would not turn to them."
However, Imam Ash-Shafi'ee impressed Ahmed not because of his opinions but for his understanding of the principles and his inference from them. This vast study of Hadeeth not only enabled Imam Ahmed to become knowledgeable about the laws of Islam but also enabled him to surpass others in his understanding of the creeds of Islam and issues of Eeman (Faith).
He successfully challenged all deviation in belief or action that occurred during his time. He criticized the Soofee (sufi) pioneers of his time for initiating the discussion about matters of devil's whispering and reflections. He refuted the atheists. Similarly he fought Al-Jahmiyah group, who did not believe in the attributes of Allah. He also stood strong and firm against Al-Mu'tazilah, who said that Al-Qur'an was created (not uttered by Allah) and then wanted people to follow them after they had misled Al-Khaleefah Al-Ma-moon.
In this last tribulation, the tribulation claiming that Al-Qur'an was created, Imam Ahmad and a few of his companions bore with patience imprisonment, beating and punishment.
Imam Ahmed debated with Ibn Abu Du'ad, the leader of Al-Mu'tazilah, in front of Al-Khaleefah Al-Wathiq Billah, and Allah made clear the truth through Imam Ahmed. The evil of Al-Mu'tazilah was forever gone after that defeat.
In short, Imam Ahmed became the leader without rival of Ahl As-Sunnah in his time and was the teacher of those who came after him and a pillar of the knowledge of Hadeeth. Al-Bukharee, Muslim and Abu Dawood were his students. Thus Imam Ahmed was by himself a whole Ummah, a master for Ahl Al-Hadeeth, and a teacher for Ahl As-Sunnah.
The day he died was a remarkable day. All of Baghdad, men and women, came out to give farewell respect to him - not the Muslims only but also the Jews and Christians. It is said that more than twenty thousand of these embraced Islam on that day! No one was left but he cried for him.
This was a brief review of the four Aimmah's biographies. May Allah bless and be pleased with all of them. It became clear to us that all of them were brethren in this Deen (Religion) and adhered to the truth in preaching and in practice. They acquired knowledge from each other and they debated each other. No one of them was fanatic to his own opinion. No one of them called the people to blindly follow him. Rather, all of them forbade their students from blind imitation and commanded them to follow the truth and the evidence.
This way, the four Aimmah left for us a wonderful heritage of knowledge, Fiqh, inference, and Hadeeth. Their contribution in pushing the wheel of understanding in this Deen was magnificent.
Posts: 137 | From: uk | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Ok...just saw this. I will sort this tomorrow. Don't have such a clear head tonight. But yes, I did see contradictions.
Creed. Isn't that supposed to mean something that speaks for everyone of a particular group? So the Islamic Creed should speak for all Muslims, based on Islam. Right?
Found a lot of stuff last night, but i just keep reading over stuff today. UGH!!!!! I hate days like that.
Be ready tomorrow guys. I'll be back.
-------------------- شكرا و أللام عليكم شيبى Posts: 2133 | From: Redneckland | Registered: Oct 2006
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Sorry, sheikh, but most women do NOT run around with "traces of blood" running down their bodies when they are menstruating! ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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