posted
Allah says: “Men are the protectors and maintainers of women because of what Allah has preferred one with over the other and because of what they spend to support them from their wealth.” [Sûrah al-Nisâ’: 34]
What does it mean that men are “protectors and maintainers” of women?
To answer this question, let us first look at the Arabic word that we are translating as “protectors and maintainers”. This word is “qawwâmûn” the plural of “qawwâm”.
This word – qawwâm – in turn, is an emphatic form of the word “qayyim”, which means a person who manages the affairs of others. The qayyim of a people is the one who governs their affairs and steers their course. Likewise, the qayyim of a woman is either her husband or her guardian – the one who has to look after her and ensure that her needs are met.
When Allah says: “Men are the qawwâmûn of women…” it means – and Allah knows best – that men are held liable for handling the affairs of women and are responsible for the women under their care. A husband, therefore, has the responsibility of taking care of his wife, protecting her, defending her honor, and fulfilling her needs regarding her religion and her worldly life. It does not mean – as all too many people have falsely assumed – that he has the right to behave obstinately towards her, compel her, subject her to his will, suppress her individuality, and thus heinously negate her identity.
His status as protector and maintainer is pure responsibility, pure liability, and not so much a position of authority. It requires from him that he uses his good sense, thinks carefully about what he does, and exercises patience. It means that he cannot be hasty and offhanded in his decisions. It does not mean that he can disregard his wife’s opinions and belittle her good person.
Why does Islam make men the protectors and maintainers of women?
The verse gives us two reasons why men are given this burden to shoulder. Allah says: “…because of what Allah has preferred one with over the other…” and “…because of what they spend to support them from their wealth.”
A problem arises when it is said that men have a preference to women. Then we see all those organizations, establishments, and activists who call to women’s equality stirring into motion, jumping up ready to fight over this point, and going off on all kinds of tangents in their thinking. Rather, they should pause long enough to properly understand what it means when Allah says: “…because of what Allah has preferred one with over the other …” This proper understanding can only be had in the light of the Qur’ân and Sunnah and their sound application.
Those who go overboard in asserting the rights of women and claim that the woman in Islam is oppressed and that Islam does not do her justice are driven to the point where they transgress against the very texts of the Qur’ân and Sunnah. In the name of “equality”, they demand absolute uniformity in matters of inheritance, in governance, and in everything else wherein a distinction between the sexes is made, sometimes taking matters so far that it is the men who have to chase after the hope of equality with women.
This brings us back to the question of what the verse is saying. Is it indicating that there is some inherent preference of men over women, something that is built into their very natures? The scholars of Qur’ânic commentary have taken two approaches to this matter.
The first approach is to refer the matter of the verse back to the natural makeup of men and women, with respect to their intellects, their different manners of thinking, and their natural strengths. They found that men, by nature, are more hot-blooded, tending more towards strength and severity, while women’s natures are cooler, tending more towards gentleness and weakness.
The second approach is to look at it from a legal angle – that Allah has imposed upon men to pay dowries to the women they wish to marry and has made men liable to spend on women and provide for them. This is the preference that men have over them. Likewise, Allah has placed prophecy with men only, as there has never been a woman prophet. In the same way, Allah has made the offices of supreme political authority and the obligations of jihad the exclusive domain of men.
The issue of testimony is also brought up in this regard, for Allah says: “And bring to witness two witnesses from among your men. And if there are not two men available, then a man and two women from those whom you accept as witnesses – so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her.” [Sûrah al-Baqarah: 282]
Others using this approach have cited certain acts of worship, like the fact that the Friday prayer and congregational prayers are prescribed only for men and not made compulsory on women.
The fact that men can have four wives while women cannot have more than one husband, or the fact that men have the exclusive option of immediate divorce have also been advanced as an interpretations.
With respect to both of these approaches, there are two observations that we can make:
The first is that the followers of both approaches agree on a preference of men over woman on the basis of Allah’s words: “…because of what they spend to support them from their wealth.”
The second is that the opinions of the commentators regarding whether or not the preferentiality refers to the natures of men and women is all based on their discretionary opinions (ijtihâd) with respect to their understanding of the verse. In any event, it would be fair to say that Allah has indeed singled out men for certain distinctions – prophethood, supreme political office, jihad, and military service, among other things – and this is because men have a nature different than that of women. This is a conclusion that all reasonable people would have to agree upon. The obligation imposed upon men by Islam to protect and maintain women should be seen in the context of the difference in their natural makeup and that the purpose for this is to secure the best interests of women.
Allah’s laws always accord with nature and take into consideration the unique gifts that Allah has bestowed upon each half that makes up the human whole – the man and the woman, so that those gifts can be employed to their maximum effectiveness.
We must remain cognizant of the fact that both men and women are Allah’s creations. And that Allah would never oppress any of His creatures. He prepares each of His creations to the purpose that he intends for it and bestows upon it the innate abilities needed to carry out that purpose.
Allah has made it of the exclusive qualities of women that they fall pregnant, bear children, and nurse them. Therefore, she is by nature burdened with the care of what the union between a man and a woman brings about, and it is an immense responsibility. Not only is it a heavy responsibility, it is a critical one, not something that can be approached lightly, without the physical, mental, and emotional preparation that Allah has bestowed exclusively upon women.
On this basis, it is only just that Allah would burden the other half of humanity – the men – with the task of fulfilling the needs of those women and protecting them, and that He would bestow upon men the innate physical, mental, and emotional qualities that would allow them to excel in doing what is required of them. Moreover, he would require men to be financially liable for the women under his care, since this is a necessary consequence of the duties he has to carry out. These two elements are, essentially, what the verse is talking about.
It is interesting to point out that the examples given by the commentators who follow the legal approach – things like prophethood, supreme political office, military duty, and carrying out certain religious rites like the call to prayer and congregational worship – are merely consequential of the natural dispensation of men. The reason these duties are suited to men is because men are not otherwise preoccupied with domestic burdens that would prevent them from carrying them out.
Though prophethood, for instance, is an honor of the highest degree, it is by no means the cause of why men are the protectors and maintainers of women. The distinction of prophethood can neither be derived from these duties, nor is it remotely indicative of any general preference of men with regards to women. It is but a fact that all the prophets were men.
Likewise, when we look at religious duties like making the call to prayer, leading the prayers, and giving the Friday sermon, we must acknowledge that these duties were given to men by the decree of Islamic Law. In no way do they necessitate that men are distinguished with every other possible legal ruling. Had Allah instead delegated these religious duties to women, this would not in any way have prevented men from being burdened with their protection and maintenance.
I must reiterate the point that the protection and maintenance given to men over women in no way implies the denial of the woman’s identity, whether in the context of the home or her position in society at large. It is merely a role to be played by men within the family environment so that this important social institution can be properly managed, safeguarded, and upheld. The presence of a manager in a given institution does not negate or diminish the individuality or the rights of the others who share in it or of those who work for it. Islam has clearly defined what the protection and maintenance of women entails for men – the care and protection, the manners and behaviors, and all liabilities associated with it.
How the Prophet (peace be upon him) put this duty into practice
The Prophet (peace be upon him) was not an emperor who lorded over his family. When we look carefully at his life, we would find it the most eloquent testimony of what we have stated above – that a man’s protection and maintenance of women in no way entails obstinacy, compulsion, or subjugation.
`آ’ishah said about her husband: “When he was at home, he was totally involved in housework.”
He was very clement. One of his wives woke up in the middle of the night and discovered that the Prophet (peace be upon him) was not beside her, though it was her night to have him with her. She tells us that she locked the door on him, thinking that he had gone to one of his other wives on her night. When he returned after a short while to find that she had locked him out of the house and asked her to open the door, she confronting him on why he had gone out. He calmly told her that he simply had needed to go to the bathroom.
On many occasions, his wives would argue with each other in his presence. He never got angry when they did. He always solved their problems with wisdom, gentleness, and sensitivity, never with harshness. This shows us what a man’s role as protector and maintainer of women is all about.
On one occasion, his wife Hafsah chided her co-wife Safiyyah by calling her “the daughter of a Jew”. This was true, because Safiyyah’s father, Hubayy b. Akhtab, was in fact a Jew who had died without ever accepting Islam. Still, such a comment was meant as a take on Safiyyah’s person, which was only more hurtful as it was coming from her co-wife. So when she heard what Hafsah had said, she started to cry.
The Prophet (peace be upon him) then came in and asked her why she was crying. She said: “Hafsah called me the daughter of a Jew.”
To this the Prophet (peace be upon him) replied: “Verily, you are the daughter of a Prophet, your uncle was also a Prophet, and you are the wife of a Prophet, so what does she have over you to boast about?”
He then turned to Hafsah and said: “Fear Allah, O Hafsah.”
In an alternate narration, the Prophet is reported to have turned to Safiyyah and said: “Why didn’t you say: ‘So how can you be better than me? Muhammad is my husband. Aaron is my father, and Moses is my uncle.”
Safiyyah was a descendant of Aaron (peace be upon him). So, when Hafsah insinuated that Safiyyah’s being the daughter of a Jew was something bad, the Prophet (peace be upon him) showed Hafsah another way of looking at it: that Safiyyah was the descendant of Prophet Aaron and that her uncle was Moses, and that her husband was Muhammad (peace be upon them all), so there was no reason for her to be ashamed.
Anyone who would take the man’s status in Islam as the protector and maintainer of women and use it as a pretext to oppress women is committing a crime against Islam.
Islam has guaranteed women their rights as individuals, including their right to have and express their own opinions. The Sunnah is full of examples of this.
We have, for instance, where Khawlah bint Tha`labah complained to the Prophet (peace be upon him) about her husband who foreswore ever again having sex with her by the old pagan custom of claiming her to be like the back of his mother, whereupon the following verse of the Qur’ân was revealed: “Allah has indeed heard the words of the woman who pleads with you concerning her husband and carries her complaint (in prayer) to Allah…” [Sûrah al-Mujâdlah: 1] followed by the verses abolishing that oppressive custom.
We can look at the case of Khunsâ’, who’s father married her off with her disapproval, so the Prophet (peace be upon him) had her marriage annulled.
In another instance, a young woman complained to `آ’ishah, saying: “My father married me to his brother’s son in order to raise his social status. However, I hate it.” When the Prophet (peace be upon him) heard her complaint, he gave her the option of having the marriage annulled. She said: “O Messenger of Allah! I have accepted what my father has done. However, I wanted to know that women had a choice in the matter.”
Then we have the story of Burayrah and her husband Mughîth. Both of them were slaves. When she acquired her freedom, she had the legal right of staying with her husband who was still a slave, or of leaving him. She chose to leave him and he began following after her, crying for her to return to him. The Prophet (peace be upon him) said to her: “If only you would go back to him.”
She asked: “O Messenger of Allah! Are you commanding me?”
He said: “No. I am only pleading on his behalf.”
She replied: “Then I have no use for him.”
On another occasion, a woman came to the Prophet (peace be upon him), complaining that men are given the opportunities of military duty, congregational worship, and other things. The Prophet (peace be upon him) let it be known that he was very pleased with her question and with her manner of address.
During the reign of the Caliph `Umar b. al-Khattâb, we have the story of a woman who rebuked him while he was on the pulpit about a decree he wished to make. To this, he said publicly: “`Umar is mistaken and this woman is correct.”
We can go on citing examples of women’s right to speak their own minds, even before the heads of state, not to mention their husbands. From this, we should be able to keep the status of men as protectors and maintainers of women in the proper perspective.
Posts: 94 | Registered: Jan 2007
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My son needs to care for his sister. But when he had to help her someday, he did well, but she told me it came with a price, she needs to obey him blindly!:-) God forbid a demand like that when the help is coming from a woman to a man!:-)
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Allah says: “Men are the protectors and maintainers of women because of what Allah has preferred one with over the other and because of what they spend to support them from their wealth.” [Sûrah al-Nisâ’: 34]
I only read this far and find you have changed the meaning of it. Nowhere does it say Allah *preferred* men over women.
004.034 YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means.
PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women).
SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property;
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Ahmed online: Allah has placed prophecy with men only, as there has never been a woman prophet.
(...)
Though prophethood, for instance, is an honor of the highest degree, it is by no means the cause of why men are the protectors and maintainers of women. The distinction of prophethood can neither be derived from these duties, nor is it remotely indicative of any general preference of men with regards to women. It is but a fact that all the prophets were men.
Some scholars say that there were never any female prophets, and their reason is that a prophet is a “perfect” human being, while women—according to them—could never be perfect! Typical of such opinions is Imam Ibn Kathir’s opinion in his commentary on the Qur’an (Tafseer Ibn Katheer, Vol.2, p.497). Imam Al-Shawkani even said that there is “consensus” (ijma’) amongst scholars over that opinion in his Fath Al-Qadeer, Vol.4, p.159.
However, this opinion simply might not be true. A number of renowned scholars have demonstrated that there were female prophets, as there were male prophets; although they did have different opinions on whom to include and the related justification.
For example, Imam Al-Qurtubi, in his famous commentary, explained that in principle there is nothing against sending female prophets, similar to sending male prophets. He based his opinion on numerous verses in the Qur’an that mentioned wahi (revelations) sent to women, similar to the same word wahi that was used with revelations sent to men.
Imam Al-Qurtubi cited the following verses from the chapter in the Qur’an named after Maryam (Mary, the mother of Jesus) to support his opinion and which means:
*{And mention Maryam in the Book when she drew aside from her family to an eastern place; So she took a veil [to screen herself] from them; then We sent to her Our spirit, and there appeared to her a well-made man. She said: Surely I fly for refuge from you to the Beneficent Allah, if you are one guarding (against evil). He said: I am only a messenger of your Lord: That I will give you a pure boy}* (Maryam 19:16-19).
However, according to Imam Al-Qurtubi’s sources, he was only for the opinion of Maryam’s prophethood and had not confirmed evidence for the prophethood of any other woman (Al-Qurtubi, Al-Tafseer, vol. 4, p. 83).
Nevertheless, several other scholars included other women in the rank of prophets and discussed differences among scholars regarding that. These women are: Asia (Pharoah’s wife), Hawaa (Eve, Prophet Adam’s wife), Sarah (Prophet Ibrahim’s wife) and Yuhanz (Prophet Moses’ mother). For more details given by scholars who supported this opinion, refer to Imam Al-Razi, the famous commentator of the Qur’an, in his Al-Durr Al-Mukhtaar (vol. 5, p. 441), Imam Al-Suyuti, an authority in the sciences of the Qur’an, in his, Al-Ashbaah Wal-Naza’ir (vol. 1, p. 240), Imam Al-Kamal Ibn Al-Humaam, a principal Hanafi scholar, whose opinion is mentioned in Husn Al-Uswah by Muhammad Siddiq Khan (vol. 1, p. 591), and Imam Al-Mubarkafuri in his Tuhfat Al-Ahwathi (vol. 5, p. 460), who actually cited the same verses from the chapter named “The Prophets” (Al-Anbiyaa’), which you referred to in your question.
Therefore, saying there is a “consensus” that in Islam women cannot be prophets is not accurately true. And the claim that there could be no “perfect” woman, that is human perfection, is contrary to the general Islamic principles of equality between men and women, as well as the authentic hadith, in which the Prophet (peace be upon him) said,
“Were made ‘perfect’ among women (kamula mena-an-nisaa’i): Maryam, Asia, Khadeejah, and Fatimah.”
By the way, this hadith was one of the principle evidences that Imam Al-Qurtubi and others used to support their opinion regarding female prophets.
It is time to correct the general misperception that no single woman, however excellent she might be, could be equivalent to men in carrying major responsibilities and leading people in the way of good deeds. Allah Almighty says in the Qur’an what means:
*{And Allah sets forth, as an example to those who believe, the wife of Pharaoh: Behold she said: "O my Lord! Build for me, in nearness to Thee, a mansion in the Garden, and save me from Pharaoh and his doings, and save me from those that do wrong"; And Mary the daughter of Imran...}* (Al-Tahrim 66:11-12).
quote:Originally posted by Ahmed online: Allah says: “Men are the protectors and maintainers of women because of what Allah has preferred one with over the other and because of what they spend to support them from their wealth.” [Sûrah al-Nisâ’: 34]
Nice idea but doesn't work in reality. Women do two thirds of the world's work so who is maintaining who? 25% of families are supported SOLELY by the mother. Another large percentage the mother earns more than the father. Yet another percentage they support the families equally.
In the company I work for, amazingly enough, ALL the women earn more than their husbands. I know that is a personal experience, but just look around you and count the women who are providing for their families.
Posts: 1039 | From: Cairo | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine:
quote: Women do two thirds of the world's work
HUge work wat do man do, dudette? one third
Well done, duda, yes one third! UN statistics, look it up.
dudette the un in statics must be done by a some women like you the statits deeh tebelleh we teshrabbey mayettha Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine:
quote:Originally posted by citizen:
quote:Originally posted by Batman, non-stop, righteous machine:
quote: Women do two thirds of the world's work
HUge work wat do man do, dudette? one third
Well done, duda, yes one third! UN statistics, look it up.
dudette the un in statics must be done by a some women like you the statits deeh tebelleh we teshrabbey mayettha
So in otherwords actual statistics done in scientific studies using universally observed methods, and that these studies are duplicated by more than one team of researchers and the studies are peer reviewed means nothing if it doesn't jive with your world view!
Kinda like how Ibn Baz wouldn't accept the fact that a space shuttle put men on the moon?
Oh batty you need a blow job badly! And spring is coming soon, lots of mushy leaf piles from last fall starting to melt, how about you? Posts: 3168 | From: If you don't like it, don't look or read it! | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
actually it was a pakistani man that first worked out women's contribution to the world economy, not that the facts would change if a women had worked t hem out.
but I feel you don't have any curiosity to learn new facts. what do you do for a living, by the way?
Posts: 1039 | From: Cairo | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Ahmed online: Allah has placed prophecy with men only, as there has never been a woman prophet.
(...)
Though prophethood, for instance, is an honor of the highest degree, it is by no means the cause of why men are the protectors and maintainers of women. The distinction of prophethood can neither be derived from these duties, nor is it remotely indicative of any general preference of men with regards to women. It is but a fact that all the prophets were men.
Some scholars say that there were never any female prophets, and their reason is that a prophet is a “perfect” human being, while women—according to them—could never be perfect! Typical of such opinions is Imam Ibn Kathir’s opinion in his commentary on the Qur’an (Tafseer Ibn Katheer, Vol.2, p.497). Imam Al-Shawkani even said that there is “consensus” (ijma’) amongst scholars over that opinion in his Fath Al-Qadeer, Vol.4, p.159.
However, this opinion simply might not be true. A number of renowned scholars have demonstrated that there were female prophets, as there were male prophets; although they did have different opinions on whom to include and the related justification.
For example, Imam Al-Qurtubi, in his famous commentary, explained that in principle there is nothing against sending female prophets, similar to sending male prophets. He based his opinion on numerous verses in the Qur’an that mentioned wahi (revelations) sent to women, similar to the same word wahi that was used with revelations sent to men.
Imam Al-Qurtubi cited the following verses from the chapter in the Qur’an named after Maryam (Mary, the mother of Jesus) to support his opinion and which means:
*{And mention Maryam in the Book when she drew aside from her family to an eastern place; So she took a veil [to screen herself] from them; then We sent to her Our spirit, and there appeared to her a well-made man. She said: Surely I fly for refuge from you to the Beneficent Allah, if you are one guarding (against evil). He said: I am only a messenger of your Lord: That I will give you a pure boy}* (Maryam 19:16-19).
However, according to Imam Al-Qurtubi’s sources, he was only for the opinion of Maryam’s prophethood and had not confirmed evidence for the prophethood of any other woman (Al-Qurtubi, Al-Tafseer, vol. 4, p. 83).
Nevertheless, several other scholars included other women in the rank of prophets and discussed differences among scholars regarding that. These women are: Asia (Pharoah’s wife), Hawaa (Eve, Prophet Adam’s wife), Sarah (Prophet Ibrahim’s wife) and Yuhanz (Prophet Moses’ mother). For more details given by scholars who supported this opinion, refer to Imam Al-Razi, the famous commentator of the Qur’an, in his Al-Durr Al-Mukhtaar (vol. 5, p. 441), Imam Al-Suyuti, an authority in the sciences of the Qur’an, in his, Al-Ashbaah Wal-Naza’ir (vol. 1, p. 240), Imam Al-Kamal Ibn Al-Humaam, a principal Hanafi scholar, whose opinion is mentioned in Husn Al-Uswah by Muhammad Siddiq Khan (vol. 1, p. 591), and Imam Al-Mubarkafuri in his Tuhfat Al-Ahwathi (vol. 5, p. 460), who actually cited the same verses from the chapter named “The Prophets” (Al-Anbiyaa’), which you referred to in your question.
Therefore, saying there is a “consensus” that in Islam women cannot be prophets is not accurately true. And the claim that there could be no “perfect” woman, that is human perfection, is contrary to the general Islamic principles of equality between men and women, as well as the authentic hadith, in which the Prophet (peace be upon him) said,
“Were made ‘perfect’ among women (kamula mena-an-nisaa’i): Maryam, Asia, Khadeejah, and Fatimah.”
By the way, this hadith was one of the principle evidences that Imam Al-Qurtubi and others used to support their opinion regarding female prophets.
It is time to correct the general misperception that no single woman, however excellent she might be, could be equivalent to men in carrying major responsibilities and leading people in the way of good deeds. Allah Almighty says in the Qur’an what means:
*{And Allah sets forth, as an example to those who believe, the wife of Pharaoh: Behold she said: "O my Lord! Build for me, in nearness to Thee, a mansion in the Garden, and save me from Pharaoh and his doings, and save me from those that do wrong"; And Mary the daughter of Imran...}* (Al-Tahrim 66:11-12).
But still My view is Valid because there is no female prophets but only female in the Rank of prophets.
I don't who are The renowned scholars they talking about The quran mentioned only 25 prophets and all are men.
Posts: 94 | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote: And I'm getting the impression you don't like the idea of female prophets. Why is that?
do u like the idea of man breastfeed babies? do u like the idea of woman wearing Beard? go figure
Posts: 2728 | From: جمهورية مصر العربية | Registered: Sep 2006
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You never did see this hilarious movie (I forgot the famous actors names and title) where this professor experimented and got pregnant himself and gave birth to a child. It was cute and in no way repulsive. You just have to get used to the idea!:-) I really don't care. I do believe that we miss out on a lot of female figures in our books. They just were not seen and replicated becaus of this double standard and patriarchy.
Posts: 1419 | From: Amsterdam, Netherlands | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
You cannot repress women based on mythology written hundreds of years ago by a guy who molested young girls.
Posts: 904 | From: Texana | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Demiana: You never did see this hilarious movie (I forgot the famous actors names and title) where this professor experimented and got pregnant himself and gave birth to a child. It was cute and in no way repulsive. You just have to get used to the idea!:-) I really don't care. I do believe that we miss out on a lot of female figures in our books. They just were not seen and replicated becaus of this double standard and patriarchy.
You are thinking of the movie "Junior" starring Arnold Schwarzeneger and Danny DeVito. What a hoot that movie was!
quote:Originally posted by Don't Call Me A Small Fry:
quote:Originally posted by Demiana: You never did see this hilarious movie (I forgot the famous actors names and title) where this professor experimented and got pregnant himself and gave birth to a child. It was cute and in no way repulsive. You just have to get used to the idea!:-) I really don't care. I do believe that we miss out on a lot of female figures in our books. They just were not seen and replicated becaus of this double standard and patriarchy.
You are thinking of the movie "Junior" starring Arnold Schwarzeneger and Danny DeVito. What a hoot that movie was!
quote:Originally posted by Dalia*: Well, yes. But that does not answer my questions.
And whoso obeys Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), then they will be in the company of those on whom Allah has bestowed His Grace, of the Prophets, the Siddiqoon (those followers of the Prophets who were first and foremost to believe in them, like Abu Bakr AsSiddiq), the martyrs, and the righteous. And how excellent these companions are!
posted
Ahmed, this has nothing to do with the question I asked you.
The Qur'an also says that there were many messengers of whom we do not know. So how can you conclude that all those were men???Posts: 3587 | Registered: Mar 2006
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The term "Man" Quranically doesn't mean males or females. Do you know the meaning Of "Man" Quranically?
Posts: 94 | Registered: Jan 2007
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so how about an answer dalia are you a muslim? you demand answers from muslims? yet you hide your own religion? very strange woman you are
Posts: 82 | Registered: Aug 2009
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quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*: The Qur'an also says that there were many messengers of whom we do not know. So how can you conclude that all those were men???
So how about an answer?
Do not you think that God created males and females for a purpose? God has the power to created One Gender creature able to self-reproduce.
Posts: 94 | Registered: Jan 2007
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who lied to u?? man if any man said he was this or that he had better have them walkin shoes.anything a man can do a woman can also do. i know alot of men look to women for support and protection.
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*: The Qur'an also says that there were many messengers of whom we do not know. So how can you conclude that all those were men???
So how about an answer?
The Quran is full of misogynistic statements. Of course the Quran is not the words of Allah but the words of a mysogynistic man --> Muhammad.
Muhammad had such a low esteem of women that he thought it is not befitting for God to have daughters when ordinary man can boast having sons.
In verse 53.19-22, after dismissing the claim that God has any daughters as the Quraish used to think, he says appallingly:
WHAT!… For you the male sex, and for Him, the female? Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!”
Suppose God had only daughters and no sons: Would it really be an unfair division? Should God be embarrassed for not having sons? Ironically the fate played a joke on Muhammad, whose sons all died at infancy and he was left with only daughters. One can only imagine how much embarrassment he must have felt for not having sons. A man with such sense of inferiority and such a colossal ego had nothing but daughters, which he thought was “a division most unfair”.
(Note that the verse refers to God in third person pronoun. This is not an error in translation. The Arabic word is lahoo, which means "for him". Muhammad often forgot that the Quran is supposed to be the word of God and should be written in first person pronoun.)
The fact that Arabs worshipped goddesses is proof that they respected women enough to attribute them the roles of deities. According to Muhammad, all denizens of the celestial assembly, including angles are male. The only female inhabitants of paradise are the houris who are celestial whores, created for the enjoyment of men. In fact few women are allowed in Paradise . Muhammad said, most of them will end up in hell.
Posts: 3773 | From: unfinished thought | Registered: Nov 2008
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quote:Originally posted by unfinished thought.: ... The Quran is full of misogynistic statements. Of course the Quran is not the words of Allah but the words of a mysogynistic man --> Muhammad...
Auzubillahi minassyaithan arrajim Bismillahir rahmanir rahim
QS Yunus:38
Am yaquuluuna iftaraahu qul fa/tuu bisuuratin mitslihi waud'uu mani istatha'tum min duuni allaahi in kuntum shaadiqiina
Do they say: 'He has forged it'. Say: 'Compose one chapter like it, and call upon whom you will, other than Allah (to help you), if what you say is true!'
Any correct words are from Allah SWT and Muhammad Rasulullah SAW, but any incorrect words are only from me. May Allah forgives me.
And divorced women shall wait (as regards their marriage) for three menstrual periods, and it is not lawful for them to conceal what Allah has created in their wombs, if they believe in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect) to what is reasonable, but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them. And Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise
the verse is clear "but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them" Khan has inserted the word responsibility in his translation ,in the Arabic version it only says have a degree over them
so still men have a degree over women whatever happens
so you have to ask yourself what is that degree?!
I said before Allah ordered Adam to work He did not order order Eve ,so it is Adam's RESPONSIBILITY to care after his wive
case dismissed
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*: The Quran also says that there were many messengers of whom we do not know. So how can you conclude that all those were men???
So how about an answer?
because the word in Arabic Quran is masculine
the word Rasol is masculineرسول
the word Rasola is feminineرسولة
the word Rosolرسل is a plural for the Rasol not Rasola Rasola has another different plural
Check the Dictionary
Sorry Dalia but you lose again there were no female prophets Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
Another useless discussion. Do you realise that all the prophets there ever have been only occured in one certain part of the world, during one certain time? All the monotheistic religions know a number of prophets and the only things it means in their point of view was that they represented the word of God. The label prophet is subjective, what one considers as a prophets can be a false one to others. Again it is something that never can be proved, so food for endless discussions. The fact that somebody claims being able to communicate with God is (IMO) already enough reason to doubt the reliability of such persons. Nowdays, if someone claims to be able to communicate with non existing persons, they lock them up in a mental institution... Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Ahmed online: It's something we have no will. If God wants A female prophet, we have no will in it.
Allah A3lam.
By the way I want to ask you something.
Can male give birth to male? ?
Proof that there should be sexual education in the schools in Egypt....... Posts: 1325 | From: For tooti http://www.csa.gov.uk/ | Registered: May 2009
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quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*: The Quran also says that there were many messengers of whom we do not know. So how can you conclude that all those were men???
So how about an answer?
because the word in Arabic Quran is masculine
the word Rasol is masculineرسول
the word Rasola is feminineرسولة
the word Rosolرسل is a plural for the Rasol not Rasola Rasola has another different plural
Check the Dictionary
Sorry Dalia but you lose again there were no female prophets
There is no prophets at all. The quran/bible/torah was written by a human with a good imagination. Not much different from JK Rowling but atleast she doesnt claim that Harry Potter is the son of god and she is a prophet. Mambojambo. Religion is the cause of all evil in the world.
Posts: 1325 | From: For tooti http://www.csa.gov.uk/ | Registered: May 2009
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quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*: The Quran also says that there were many messengers of whom we do not know. So how can you conclude that all those were men???
So how about an answer?
because the word in Arabic Quran is masculine
the word Rasol is masculineرسول
the word Rasola is feminineرسولة
the word Rosolرسل is a plural for the Rasol not Rasola Rasola has another different plural
Check the Dictionary
Sorry Dalia but you lose again there were no female prophets
You know very well that in Arabic the grammatical gender is ALWAYS male if there is only 1 male. In a room full of women if there was only 1 male present the MALE grammar would be used, like when speaking to mankind. Check the dictionary Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: You know very well that in Arabic the grammatical gender is ALWAYS male if there is only 1 male. In a room full of women if there was only 1 male present the MALE grammar would be used, like when speaking to mankind. Check the dictionary
^I do not take advises about my language from an someone who can not talk it fluently (No offense )
but you do not understand Arabic so you can not argue about it ,and sentence you said is completely wrong about Grammar sorry go and study Arabic well,the word Rasol (which is singular is only used for males and the plural is Rosol )the word Rosol is only used for males ,females can not be used or contained in this word
sorry go and study Arabic instead of wasting our time
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: You know very well that in Arabic the grammatical gender is ALWAYS male if there is only 1 male. In a room full of women if there was only 1 male present the MALE grammar would be used
Exactly. For a mixed group of people, the masculine form of the plural is always used, even if the singular form of the noun does have a masculine and a feminine form. The feminine plural is only used if a group is entirely female.
I am surprised that a native speaker does not seem to know this. Or maybe he just assumes the non-native speakers on here are not aware of this basic rule and he can BS us.
Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
^No ,the word Rosol can not be used for females ,we have a lot of kinds of plural i Arabic one of the is gam3 ElTakseer and Gan3 al-Mozakr Alsalem and the Almo2nath Alsalem and the some words are just plural and can not be used in a singular sense some can be used in plural and singular such as(Arab)the word Rosol can not be used for Females
Sorry
Go and learn arabic before you discuss these
the word Rosol is the same as the Word Qowm قومcan only be used for men
you lose before you argue about the grammar post something to back up your calims ,I can post the dictionary definition and i can give you a huge lesson as I did with "ma"
you have nothing to argue here
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by *Dalia*: For a mixed group of people, the masculine form of the plural is always used, even if the singular form of the noun does have a masculine and a feminine form. The feminine plural is only used if a group is entirely female
some words as I said can not be used or contain females such as the word Qawm قوم I posted above the word Rosol is the same as the word Qom both of the are plural ancan not be used for females or contain females
check the dictionary if you do not belive this
here is a piece of peotry
ولا أدري و لست أخال أدري أقوم آل حصن أم نساء the word Qawm is the same as Rosol only for males
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Rahala: ^No ,the word Rosol can not be used for females ,it is called Esm Gens Gam3 which is something you do not know ,we have a lot of kinds of plural i Arabic one of the is gam3 ElTakseer and Gan3 al-Mozakr Alsalem and the Almo2nath Alsalem and the some words are just plural and can not be used in a singular sense some can be used in plural and singular such as(Arab)the word Rosol can not be used for Females
Sorry
Go and learn arabic before you discuss these
the word Rosol is the same as the Word Qowm قومcan only be used for men
you lose before you argue about the grammar post something to back up your calims ,I can post the dictionary definition and i can give you a huge lesson as I did with "ma"
you have nothing to argue here
if I remember correctly I refuted what you said about 'ma' and also the 'jeem' and you vanished and avoided the argument.
It is correct that among mixed company the masculine is used to include all. stop wasting our time.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Kawm Nooh were both male and female ya bashmohandiss Ahmad.. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: Kawm Nooh were both male and female ya bashmohandiss Ahmad..
Nice with a second native arabic speaking view. It can be hard for us non speaking/writing followers to figure what to think.
Posts: 1325 | From: For tooti http://www.csa.gov.uk/ | Registered: May 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Dzosser: Kawm Nooh were both male and female ya bashmohandiss Ahmad..
supply the verse you are talking about Dzosser ! and I will reply about it
or you can check it up in the dictionary ,any dictionary (lesan Al-Arab or al-mo7eet or Al09a7a7) will tell you that the word Qawm is only for males not females
just look at the dictionary ,look at this verse 2:54
it is only about men not women also the verse you are talking about (Qawm Nooh ) is also for men ,the message were originally for men and they could tell there women ,just look at the dictionary
it is fantastic ,Qawm is only for men
sad2ny elkelma de bas leregala mesh elsetat
shof elqamos we 2oly aw ana momken akteb elqamos
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Rahala: ^No ,the word Rosol can not be used for females ,it is called Esm Gens Gam3 which is something you do not know ,we have a lot of kinds of plural i Arabic one of the is gam3 ElTakseer and Gan3 al-Mozakr Alsalem and the Almo2nath Alsalem and the some words are just plural and can not be used in a singular sense some can be used in plural and singular such as(Arab)the word Rosol can not be used for Females
Sorry
Go and learn arabic before you discuss these
the word Rosol is the same as the Word Qowm قومcan only be used for men
you lose before you argue about the grammar post something to back up your calims ,I can post the dictionary definition and i can give you a huge lesson as I did with "ma"
you have nothing to argue here
if I remember correctly I refuted what you said about 'ma' and also the 'jeem' and you vanished and avoided the argument.
It is correct that among mixed company the masculine is used to include all. stop wasting our time.
you did not refute anything you can keep dreaming the whole day and keep tricking yourself
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
القَوْمُ (القاموس المحيط) القَوْمُ: الجَماعَةُ من الرِّجالِ والنِّساءِ مَعاً، أو الرِّجالُ خاصَّةً، أو تَدْخُلُهُ النِّساءُ على تَبَعِيَّةٍ، ويُؤَنَّثُ ج: أقوامٌ
You can make sure from the above ya bashmohandiss. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Rahala: ^No ,the word Rosol can not be used for females ,it is called Esm Gens Gam3 which is something you do not know ,we have a lot of kinds of plural i Arabic one of the is gam3 ElTakseer and Gan3 al-Mozakr Alsalem and the Almo2nath Alsalem and the some words are just plural and can not be used in a singular sense some can be used in plural and singular such as(Arab)the word Rosol can not be used for Females
Sorry
Go and learn arabic before you discuss these
the word Rosol is the same as the Word Qowm قومcan only be used for men
you lose before you argue about the grammar post something to back up your calims ,I can post the dictionary definition and i can give you a huge lesson as I did with "ma"
you have nothing to argue here
if I remember correctly I refuted what you said about 'ma' and also the 'jeem' and you vanished and avoided the argument.
It is correct that among mixed company the masculine is used to include all. stop wasting our time.
you did not refute anything you can keep dreaming the whole day and keep tricking yourself
You are the dreamer, plenty here you avoid answering and dream you have refuted them, not just me.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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