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I have mixed emotions about posting this, it is so gruesome, but it has to be seen, especially by those who are voting to continue this war.
In the spring of 2007, a conference was held on the outskirts of Washington, DC. Entitled Winter Soldier: Iraq and Afghanistan, it hearkened back to the Winter Soldier testimonies held three decades ago during the Vietnam War. Of the testimonies we filmed, this one, by Iraq War vet Jon Michael Turner, was the most compelling and intense.
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That is absolutely HORRIBLE! They're talking about WAR CRIMES, they should be prosecuted not be congratulated by their superiors. WTF ?? Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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People are not voting to continue the war. Obama and McCain will continue to have troops in Iraq. You can hardly call what is going on there now a war.
-------------------- The spirit of Horemheb lives on within us all. Posts: 1023 | From: The spirit of Horemheb lives within us all | Registered: May 2007
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How was this video so gruesome. One dead man in the street, possibly cut down by Sunnis or Shia or al-qaeda, maybe by an American soldier; a 12 year old boy, or so it said, with shrapnel wounds to the head. There is no way to prove the authenticity of this video. Tons of video footage comes out of Iraq. How can we know the truthfulness of it.
So the shooter is having second thoughts now that he is out of harm's way; brazenly talking about his deeds? While I don't put anything past some soldiers when it comes to war I'm suspicious of this particular one.
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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Grumman, These people do not care about accuracy. A terrorist can cut someone's head off and you will hear not a peep from the America haters here. On the other hand a confused American soldier can stick some convict in the butt with a cattle prod and they go bizerk. What they want to do is attack the united states in any way they can. It's an old stick that has been going on since ww II. Anti Americanism has a price. When I saw the West Bank and Gaza break out in celebrations after 9/11, buring American flags etc I became an enemy of the palestinians forever. When the Israelis grind them under their boots I am pleased. When millions of Americans hear these "death to America" chants we react in the only way anyone could react. These people do not care about truth, they never have. they will tell you they do not support terror and our enemies but most of them do. We'll go on like we always have, being the world's super power and beacon of hope just as we always have, "A shining city on a hill."
Remember also that every ounce of civilization in the world today was delivered either by the British Empire or American business.
Posts: 1023 | From: The spirit of Horemheb lives within us all | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by The Hammer: When I saw the West Bank and Gaza break out in celebrations after 9/11, buring American flags etc I became an enemy of the palestinians forever. When the Israelis grind them under their boots I am pleased.
why didnt you feel the same when the jews were celebrating 911 in the streets of New York directly after it happened? Did you miss that one, as it was only shown once then never again? Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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These men were actually speaking about their own experiences. You could see the looks on the faces of the other soldiers sitting next to them, they are affected by what has happened. HAMMER, as someone who never served, you have little to say about what goes on in the battle field. Allow them at least to tell the truth of their experiences and let people know what is really happening. I think it is appalling that when you hear the real facts from the horses mouths you are still insistient in your thoughts. You are as much to blame as their commanders who patted them on the backs and encouraged them to get their "kills". Oh, and the first kill being a stabbing gets them a 4 day pass out of Iraq...lovely. Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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they were killin innocent people just for a kill!!! dirty terrorists!!!bastards need to be put in prison for life or the death penalty for their actions!!!where told to kill or not!!!
-------------------- your ass is so tight when you fart only a dog can hear it.when you queef only a cat can hear that one. Posts: 9776 | From: You like If only mosquitoes sucked fat instead of blood. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Ayisha wrote (talking to Hammer): ''why didnt you feel the same when the jews were celebrating 911 in the streets of New York directly after it happened? Did you miss that one, as it was only shown once then never again?''
So these celebrating Jews were positive they had no relatives in those burning buildings that day? I admit I didn't watch television all day that day so if it was only once then I surely did miss it. However one would guess not all the major news channels are partial to Jews and not show this interesting event on television more than once. Hmmm Ayisha, are you pulling a fast one here. Why you almost hoodwinked me.
Smuckers, the video's intent is to make the U.S Military look bad. If this is the case then why hasn't this revelation been brought up to the higher ups. They couldn't conceal Abu Gharaip (spelling?) so why this one. There were several young men on the podium in the video, surely some of their testimony would warrant an investigation if they could implicate higher ups. How about Turner, the only one speaking, talking about murdering someone; also saying his commanding officer authorized stabbings for a reward? Isn't this something the newspaper guys would want to know about, not to mention lawyers? Again, I'm certain a soldier or Marine or two will commit murder... but to advertise it on video and not have repercussions from the U.S. Military and Iraqis themselves. I'm skeptical of this video; not so with human nature though.
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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Hammer and Grumman, Your lack of reverence for human life is appalling. Where is your compassion, for the innocent who were killed and for the ones suffering from their own actions and willing to speak out? They are not gloating, they are obviously ashamed of their actions.
I view this a bit different than Tina in that I believe that these men are living their punishment and it is far worse than the death penalty. I think these soldiers who were probably 18 at the time are also victims, they were the weapon. The blame lies much higher up with those who pointed the weapon. The blood of the innocent is also on the hands of those who support and vote for the war.
-------------------- "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." (Sign hanging in Einstein's office at Princeton) Leap and the Net will Appear. Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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I agree Gold, you can tell by the look on their faces that they feel shame and horrible remorse, a couple were crying (and American men do NOT cry easily, let's be honest). That man was telling his accounts and experiences and they are shaking their heads like, 'yup, that's the way it is'.
Gunman, I know it may make the military look 'bad' but I find that a far cry from ensuring that justice takes place and things are corrected. The very fact that this seems to be an epidemic among many (which makes you think if not, most) troops in Iraq is pretty scary. You have to be willing to want to do the RIGHT THING even if it makes you or your people look bad for a while. IMO these soldiers are guilty of war crimes but they're doing their best to change that in Iraq by coming forward with their own stories. Why is this not in the mainstream YET? I don't know, many times it takes a while before the media picks up on what the people are ready to hear...it seems fairly new. I find it odd that the only conspiracy theory some believe is when it comes to the US military or government...jeesh! Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by The Hammer: Grumman, These people do not care about accuracy. A terrorist can cut someone's head off and you will hear not a peep from the America haters here. On the other hand a confused American soldier can stick some convict in the butt with a cattle prod and they go bizerk. What they want to do is attack the united states in any way they can. It's an old stick that has been going on since ww II. Anti Americanism has a price. When I saw the West Bank and Gaza break out in celebrations after 9/11, buring American flags etc I became an enemy of the palestinians forever. When the Israelis grind them under their boots I am pleased. When millions of Americans hear these "death to America" chants we react in the only way anyone could react. These people do not care about truth, they never have. they will tell you they do not support terror and our enemies but most of them do. We'll go on like we always have, being the world's super power and beacon of hope just as we always have, "A shining city on a hill."
Remember also that every ounce of civilization in the world today was delivered either by the British Empire or American business.
WOW! Finally some soldiers, knowing that they will face relentless criticism, choose to tell the truth. It reminds me so much of the scenes of vietnam veterans telling the truth about the horrors of war and what they were encouraged to do. Remember the famous picture of the vietnamese child running down the street with his/her skin burned off from Napalm? It's a hard truth that every American needs to listen to. For way too long, this war has been scrubbed and sanitized for the viewing public. We, as Americans, I feel have been "protected" from the reality of war for too long. These types of experiences are WHY so many soldiers have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. War makes humans behave in ways that are so inhuman, it is difficult to live with. I am awed by this young man's courage to tell the truth.
Posts: 141 | Registered: Apr 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: why didnt you feel the same when the jews were celebrating 911 in the streets of New York directly after it happened? Did you miss that one, as it was only shown once then never again?
BULLSHIT, Ayisha!! I am so not buying your allegation. It's cruel, untrue and you know it!
New York that day was an inferno !! No one was celebrating there the city almost the whole would was in disbelief, shock and grief.
How can Jews celebrate the fall of the WTC when knowlingly many of them were working in these buildings? It turned out later on that approximately 15% of the WTC victims were to believed to be Jewish.
Why would Jews celebrate this horrible tragedy when the foreign ministry in Jerusalem would state the very next day that so far it had received the names of 4,000 Israelis believed to have been in the areas of the World Trade Center and the Pentagon at the time of the attack'??
"Vague conspiracy theories blaming Israel began to appear within 24 hours of the attacks. Syria's government-owned Al Thawra newspaper may have been the first newspaper to make the "4,000 Jews" claim. According to U.S. embassy reporting, its September 15th edition falsely claimed "four thousand Jews were absent from their work on the day of the explosions."
quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: TL there are witness reports that what Ayisha was stating is true. Not that it matters, does it really excuse anything? No.
Yeah many people also see UFOs .....
Tell me is this normal for a Muslim to rant against Jews because I'd really would love to know if there are more tolerant people out there. People who are trying to bring together not to separate even further.
Remember our children and grand children are the next generations who will rule our world. Do you wanna sit in the rocking chair one day and listening to the same crap coming out of your daughter's mouth? Do you wanna see the same terrible images on TV and think it's normal?
I am afraid it is not. Stop ranting. It doesn't do us any good and most of all not planet Earth.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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I believe everyone rants about everyone else. But we are mostly speaking politics here, so what someone's religion has to do with it I don't know.
I really don't know which crap you're referring to...do I want to sit in my rocking chair and hear what crap coming from her mouth? I would as soon live in a world where people stopped hating on everybody else, where people stopped feeling the need to go to war and commit war crimes. I would wish to live in a world where everyone treated EVERYONE else in a decent and kind way, where people had sympathy and empathy for others.
I really don't know what you're talking about TL. You've lost me here.
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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I am sorry if I was not clear in my previous post.
Well do you think it makes sense to accuse Jews of celebrating the attack on the WTC? Seriously.... is that logical to you??
Most probably it is to you and you are Muslim.
Then again I wouldn't be surprised if you would support the theory that actually the US Government organized these horrible attacks on 9/11.
I've been long enough on this forum and I've never seen you saying anything good about people of Jewish faith. Why is that?
People say a lot of things for different reasons. Other people pick certain statements which are not necessarily true but fit into their own personal agendas. And indeed it can become very dangerous.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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Are you accusing me of having some secret hatred for the entire race of Jewish people? I never proclaimed a love of cocker spaniels either, does that mean I hate them all, as well?
Ayishas comment was so small in relation to what this entire thread is about yet you focus on ONLY it. I wonder why that is? The rest of I don't really care about ~
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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i really hope that out of no where the idiots who support the troops, the war, bush, the racist whites i see every where and the republicans dissapear from the universe. The world will be better, there will still be more idiots in the world but they wont be as bad.
Posts: 506 | From: Some where on the east coast | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Tigerlily: I am sorry if I was not clear in my previous post.
Well do you think it makes sense to accuse Jews of celebrating the attack on the WTC? Seriously.... is that logical to you??
Most probably it is to you and you are Muslim.
Then again I wouldn't be surprised if you would support the theory that actually the US Government organized these horrible attacks on 9/11.
I've been long enough on this forum and I've never seen you saying anything good about people of Jewish faith. Why is that?
People say a lot of things for different reasons. Other people pick certain statements which are not necessarily true but fit into their own personal agendas. And indeed it can become very dangerous.
because jews = israel and egyptians, arabs dont like israel because israel wants to eliminate arabs off the earth you get it. its a fact, and no one can change that ever. israelis are born to hate arabs and arabs are born to hate israel. sorry you must accept.
Posts: 506 | From: Some where on the east coast | Registered: Jan 2008
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of gold says: ''...Grumman, Your lack of reverence for human life is appalling. Where is your compassion, for the innocent who were killed and for the ones suffering from their own actions and willing to speak out? They are not gloating, they are obviously ashamed of their actions.''
Of gold as a matter of fact I do have compassion for some human life; those whom I respect and those whom are innocent. If you have to know the truth the guy talking in the video is a cold-blooded murderer. By his own admission the Iraqi man was innocent and he murdered him anyway. If anyone here thinks this guy was ''encouraged'' by his superior to kill a non-combatant you are willfully suspending your intellectual capacities. It sure speaks volumes for the temperament of this soldier. All eyes should be on him. As a matter of fact since I've seen his picture I would steer well clear of this killer in civilian life; anything may set him off. And for those who want to pin his killing ways on encouragement he had no encouragement at all save for him encouraging himself to commit murder. A real-time killer and now he wants compassion while confessing to murder. F..k him.
Finally, did anyone notice that this particular soldier's testimony and deeds were the most compelling according to the introduction of the video. Doesn't this mean no one else on the stand committed murder except Turner?
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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The US would rather kill 100 innocent to hit 1 posible terrorist. The show only compassion for their "own kind" and for people with money.
Posts: 281 | From: Denmark | Registered: Feb 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Tibe-at-work: The US would rather kill 100 innocent to hit 1 posible terrorist. The show only compassion for their "own kind" and for people with money.
just like israel its sad but its the truth
Posts: 506 | From: Some where on the east coast | Registered: Jan 2008
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...and for the both of you I don't suppose jihadis or al-qaeda do this when they set about their murderous work killing innocents? Selective amnesia from the both of you.
One can debate the politics of Israel, Iraq, the Palestinians, the U.S. and for that matter a huge portion of the world and all sides will try and understand to some degree the other side, but not too many will try to understand the politics of cold-blooded murder in the name of motivation factors.
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Grumman f6f: ...and for the both of you I don't suppose jihadis or al-qaeda do this when they set about their murderous work killing innocents? Selective amnesia from the both of you.
One can debate the politics of Israel, Iraq, the Palestinians, the U.S. and for that matter a huge portion of the world and all sides will try and understand to some degree the other side, but not too many will try to understand the politics of cold-blooded murder in the name of motivation factors.
before the usa went in iraq, there wasnt as much muslims fighting muslims. it was a small fire, the u.s went in there and dropped gasoline in the fire. wake up and dont listen to your gov't so much. usa and israel are the real terrorists. if you have an ounce of brain power, you would have realized that already
Posts: 506 | From: Some where on the east coast | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Grumman f6f: of gold says: ''...Grumman, Your lack of reverence for human life is appalling. Where is your compassion, for the innocent who were killed and for the ones suffering from their own actions and willing to speak out? They are not gloating, they are obviously ashamed of their actions.''
Of gold as a matter of fact I do have compassion for some human life; those whom I respect and those whom are innocent. If you have to know the truth the guy talking in the video is a cold-blooded murderer. By his own admission the Iraqi man was innocent and he murdered him anyway. If anyone here thinks this guy was ''encouraged'' by his superior to kill a non-combatant you are willfully suspending your intellectual capacities. It sure speaks volumes for the temperament of this soldier. All eyes should be on him. As a matter of fact since I've seen his picture I would steer well clear of this killer in civilian life; anything may set him off. And for those who want to pin his killing ways on encouragement he had no encouragement at all save for him encouraging himself to commit murder. A real-time killer and now he wants compassion while confessing to murder. F..k him.
Finally, did anyone notice that this particular soldier's testimony and deeds were the most compelling according to the introduction of the video. Doesn't this mean no one else on the stand committed murder except Turner?
You are right, it is cold blooded murder and it is our country who is doing it. This guy is telling you what our military is doing in our name. You may be as proud as punch but I for one am ashamed of it.
Which do you see as worse: flying airplanes into buildings killing thousands of innocent people or flying over buildings dropping bombs killing thousands of innocent people? They are both wrong. They are the same thing. One isn't more righteous because they have bigger weapons.
Posts: 3891 | From: No good deed goes unpunished. | Registered: May 2007
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One is not more righteous because they have bigger weapons but they do manage to get their way. I always notice that these little utopian nit wits worry about everyone but their own country. This is a hard brutal world run by money and raw power and this bizarre left wing utopianism has NEVER had a place in the world and never will. Evil must be met head on and defeated. The interests of one's own country are the only REALISTIC consideration. The terrorists would take someone like Gold and cut his guts out while he screamed. Thats the real world we live in.
Posts: 1023 | From: The spirit of Horemheb lives within us all | Registered: May 2007
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With regard to "muslims fighting muslims"... Has the idea of "divide and conquer" not yet reached everyones mind? Things are so clear, so obvious yet it is as if the world is blind.
Live one day or even half a day in an occupied, impoverished or war torn country and then talk about who is "right" or "wrong".
Posts: 109 | From: The Pubs | Registered: May 2007
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War torn countries are the human condition. Ask the Africans in Sudan about right and wrong, ask the jews in Europe in the 1940's about right and wrong, ask the Cambodians in the 1970's about right and wrong, ask the Russians in the Gulag...the list goes on and on. Here is the thing, for all of you dreamers out there the world turns on money, and raw power. It is the case now just as much as it was in 1066 or 3000 BC.
Posts: 1023 | From: The spirit of Horemheb lives within us all | Registered: May 2007
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of gold wrote: You are right, it is cold blooded murder and it is our country who is doing it.''
Of gold you should reword that so that it can be recognized for what it is. For you to say it is the U.S. doing this simply because the man is a U.S. soldier indicates a strong bias against the truth. The soldier is responsible for conduct that upholds the representative government's position to not deliberately harm non-combatants. That soldier acted upon no orders nor conscience other than himself. But you write as if this mayhem is sanctioned by the United States Government without offering anything in the way of proof.
If you want substantiation of government sanctioned murder loook at the SS in Hitler's Germany in WWII. Entire villages of hundreds of people were wiped out because of sytemization; and this says nothing for genocide against the Jews.
''This guy is telling you what our military is doing in our name.''
Poppycock.
From your perspective this guy in the video is saying ''in our name.'' Perspective says this guy is a killer endorsing his own actions simply because he has a uniform on and acting out on his murderous intentions. Now he's copping the psychological plea because his conscience is screwing with him. Good for his conscience.
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Grumman f6f: ...and for the both of you I don't suppose jihadis or al-qaeda do this when they set about their murderous work killing innocents? Selective amnesia from the both of you.
One can debate the politics of Israel, Iraq, the Palestinians, the U.S. and for that matter a huge portion of the world and all sides will try and understand to some degree the other side, but not too many will try to understand the politics of cold-blooded murder in the name of motivation factors.
F.i. non of us has any sympathy for either Al qaeda or any other lunatics. Comitting murder is wrong no matter what the name of the murdere are -Bush or Bin laden.
Interesting point to make is also that a lot of the "fighters" in Al qaeda is trained by the US. And where do they get all their fancy weapons from???
Posts: 281 | From: Denmark | Registered: Feb 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: why didnt you feel the same when the jews were celebrating 911 in the streets of New York directly after it happened? Did you miss that one, as it was only shown once then never again?
BULLSHIT, Ayisha!! I am so not buying your allegation. It's cruel, untrue and you know it!
New York that day was an inferno !! No one was celebrating there the city almost the whole would was in disbelief, shock and grief.
How can Jews celebrate the fall of the WTC when knowlingly many of them were working in these buildings? It turned out later on that approximately 15% of the WTC victims were to believed to be Jewish.
Why would Jews celebrate this horrible tragedy when the foreign ministry in Jerusalem would state the very next day that so far it had received the names of 4,000 Israelis believed to have been in the areas of the World Trade Center and the Pentagon at the time of the attack'??
"Vague conspiracy theories blaming Israel began to appear within 24 hours of the attacks. Syria's government-owned Al Thawra newspaper may have been the first newspaper to make the "4,000 Jews" claim. According to U.S. embassy reporting, its September 15th edition falsely claimed "four thousand Jews were absent from their work on the day of the explosions."
Tell me is this normal for a Muslim to rant against Jews because I'd really would love to know if there are more tolerant people out there. People who are trying to bring together not to separate even further.
I wasnt aware that I was ranting, I asked a simple question to the guy who saw it one way why he didnt also feel the same regarding that day. I am not against Jews TL, im not against anyone, but I have seen some of the most disturbing things regarding what has happened to the Palestinian people too.
There are no 'rights' in this war, there never could be.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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You must be kidding, Ayisha!! The first website you present is by someone - Michael Rivero - who is KNOWINGLY anti-Semite and denies the Holocaust!!
Also whenever I read the word 'zionist' anywhere it doesn't mean nothing good so I can't waste time with his website.
On the second link I couldn't find any info on celebrating Jews on 9/11 so what's that all about!!
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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TL, because you dont like the first guy as he's anti-semite doesnt take away the fact that it happened, sorry. I do remember watching this myself that day and the following days, UK TV was that and nothing else for days.
the second site was regarding your comment about the 'attack' on the pentagon, the original site is no longer there but there was a lot of questions regarding where was this plane that supposedly hit the pentagon, there was no plane. So many years on from that now it seems much more has been covered up that was floating round at that time.
I have also seen documentaries where it clearly shows the planes that hit the WTC were detonated before they hit, there is a lot of unanswered questions and cover ups about that day.
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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You must be kidding, Ayisha!! The first website you present is by someone - Michael Rivero - who is KNOWINGLY anti-Semite and denies the Holocaust!!
Also whenever I read the word 'zionist' anywhere it doesn't mean nothing good so I can't waste time with his website.
On the second link I couldn't find any info on celebrating Jews on 9/11 so what's that all about!!
not to sound too offensive but you need to watch something other than cnn and open your mind. your brainwashed by the american/jewish gov't like many of other citizens.
Posts: 506 | From: Some where on the east coast | Registered: Jan 2008
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You must be kidding, Ayisha!! The first website you present is by someone - Michael Rivero - who is KNOWINGLY anti-Semite and denies the Holocaust!!
Also whenever I read the word 'zionist' anywhere it doesn't mean nothing good so I can't waste time with his website.
On the second link I couldn't find any info on celebrating Jews on 9/11 so what's that all about!!
not to sound too offensive but you need to watch something other than cnn and open your mind. your brainwashed by the american/jewish gov't like many of other citizens.
Well do you deny the Holocaust too then??
You are very young and already so biased in your thinking that it's only sad to realize that the crap between Muslims and Jews is most likely gonna go on and on forever.
quote:Originally posted by Egypt_TaeKwonDo: because jews = israel and egyptians, arabs dont like israel because israel wants to eliminate arabs off the earth you get it. its a fact, and no one can change that ever. israelis are born to hate arabs and arabs are born to hate israel. sorry you must accept.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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Ayisha posted this: ''the second site was regarding your comment about the 'attack' on the pentagon, the original site is no longer there but there was a lot of questions regarding where was this plane that supposedly hit the pentagon, there was no plane.''
Ayisha, who planted the turbine engines and landing gear inside the Pentagon? What about the several eyewitnesses who saw the jet hurtling towards the building at nearly ground-level? I take it Al-Jazeera edited the video that showed the vertical stabilizer of the jet to the right in the frame, although the stabilizer was only there for a brief instant, just before it crashed into the Pentagon.
''I have also seen documentaries where it clearly shows the planes that hit the WTC were detonated before they hit, there is a lot of unanswered questions and cover ups about that day.''
Ayisha, if the planes were detonated before impact, why do other videos taken, gasp!, in America, show the planes, both of them, slamming into the two towers intact? I can vouch for the second one as I saw it live on television. Now, admittedly this second plane disappeared behind the north tower (from the position of the television camera) for a split second so I didn't actually see the plane impact from that position when it hit the south tower, but that split second I told you about also produced a huge fireball, consistent with the brief instant the jet disappeared behind the north tower before crashing into the south building. Later video shows the plane crashing into the south tower intact, until collision. So where is the ''before impact'' here?
Ayisha, there is no evidence on this planet that shows planes being detonated before impact.
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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Tigerlily, why is is that anytime someone mentions the word "jew" you accuse them of being jew haters or holocaust deniers? I have no idea if what Ayisha said (about the jews celebrating in NY) is true or not, because I've never heard of it before, but that does not make her or Taeokondo jew haters, and holocaust deniers.
Let me point out the differences to you:
1. Pointing out that a jew did something bad is only that and nothing more. If you say a Jewish person killed so and so, it only means that the commited this particular crime. The same way as if you point that a Muslim or Christian did something bad. It doesn't mean that you are making a statement about the entire race.
2. Saying that jewish person did something doesn't mean that you are a jewish hater. The same way as if you pointed that Muslims have conducted many terrorist acts, for example, that doesn't mean that you hate all Muslims.
3. Denying the holocaust, means that you are rejecting the fact that 6 million Jews have been killed, tortured, starved, gased, and ethnically cleansed in World War 2. Not every time someone says the word "jew" means that they are denying the holocaust.
The reason, I've went into this elaborate explanation is that I noticed that every time someone mentions the word jew, you go into a tirade. Why? I agree with you, no one should ever hate an enire race. But it seems to me that you easily accuse people of being jew haters if they just the word "jew." That is not fair or balanced.
Posts: 4446 | From: Egyptian in Sydney | Registered: Mar 2005
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I would just like to say here that I certainly do not deny the holocaust where millions of Jews were put to death. It happened and we all know that.
I do not hate Jews, Indians, Iraqis, Brits, Americans, Germans, Italians, Chinese or even Japanese who had my uncle in a prison camp for most of WWII.
I could point out war crimes committed by Germany, Britain, USA but it does not mean I hate an entire nation and all its people who had nothing at all to do with the above!
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: I would just like to say here that I certainly do not deny the holocaust where millions of Jews were put to death. It happened and we all know that.
I never assumed that. But it's kind of puzzling that you would throw an allegation into this thread that Jews were happy about the 9/11 events.
You couldn't provide any evidence that infact this was the case.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by * 7ayat *: Tigerlily, why is is that anytime someone mentions the word "jew" you accuse them of being jew haters or holocaust deniers? I have no idea if what Ayisha said (about the jews celebrating in NY) is true or not, because I've never heard of it before, but that does not make her or Taeokondo jew haters, and holocaust deniers.
Let me point out the differences to you:
1. Pointing out that a jew did something bad is only that and nothing more. If you say a Jewish person killed so and so, it only means that the commited this particular crime. The same way as if you point that a Muslim or Christian did something bad. It doesn't mean that you are making a statement about the entire race.
2. Saying that jewish person did something doesn't mean that you are a jewish hater. The same way as if you pointed that Muslims have conducted many terrorist acts, for example, that doesn't mean that you hate all Muslims.
3. Denying the holocaust, means that you are rejecting the fact that 6 million Jews have been killed, tortured, starved, gased, and ethnically cleansed in World War 2. Not every time someone says the word "jew" means that they are denying the holocaust.
The reason, I've went into this elaborate explanation is that I noticed that every time someone mentions the word jew, you go into a tirade. Why? I agree with you, no one should ever hate an enire race. But it seems to me that you easily accuse people of being jew haters if they just the word "jew." That is not fair or balanced.
You need to re-read my reply to the young man above. You surely understood wrong. I ask him if he would deny the Holocaust too. I am still waiting for his response, I am sure he will do so shortly.
To make my point to you and everyone else as short as possible I am just so tired about the continuing anti-Jewish propaganda on this forum just as you are sick of anti-Muslim stuff. Then again maybe I should be more tolerant to this kind of biased portraying of Jews here on this forum because that's how too many Muslims feel about them.
Furthermore I am well aware of what denying the Holocaust means. There a quite a large amount of Muslims out who exactly do that.
But these gruesome murders happened not too far away from where I grew up. It's the dark shameful past of my own country. So I am very sensitive when it comes to Jews and Holocaust.
The link Ayisha provided and as mentioned above is by someone who can't stand Jews for whatever reasons. His allegations are therefore not in the least credible.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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The link Ayisha provided and as mentioned above is by someone who can't stand Jews for whatever reasons. His allegations are therefore not in the least credible.
LOL, TL dont you see the humour in this statement?
If someone who loves and adores Jews wrote anything about 911 and Jews you would then assume they were Jew haters. There is bucketloads on the net about this, the fact you choose not to read it as its anti-jew to say anything against the poor little darlings who are fighting for their country............oops wrong side The fact you choose not to read it because you claim the writer is anti Jew doesnt remove the fact its there in black and white for anyone with a brain to look at the EVIDENCE, but of course the evidence is provided by someone speaking up against the Jews which in your mind = Jew Hater, which is not always the case.
It is common knowledge USA 'needed' some kind of war, it is also common knowledge about the companies making the money from the war in Iraq and it is also common knowledge that the government officials all have shares in these companies. Surely you have seen the documentaries about Bush, his life, his dad and how he got into office in the first place?? Have you any idea how many Jews are in top positions in USA? Have you any idea who many Jews OWN the media in USA?? I am not being anti Jew here in saying that, its true, its fact, look it up.
Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote: To make my point to you and everyone else as short as possible I am just so tired about the continuing anti-Jewish propaganda on this forum just as you are sick of anti-Muslim stuff.
That pretty much sums up. BTW, there is Anti-American, Anti-British, Anti-Egyptian, Anti-almost everything on this forum. People are always going to pick out the things that affect them the most.
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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The link Ayisha provided and as mentioned above is by someone who can't stand Jews for whatever reasons. His allegations are therefore not in the least credible.
LOL, TL dont you see the humour in this statement?
If someone who loves and adores Jews wrote anything about 911 and Jews you would then assume they were Jew haters. There is bucketloads on the net about this, the fact you choose not to read it as its anti-jew to say anything against the poor little darlings who are fighting for their country............oops wrong side The fact you choose not to read it because you claim the writer is anti Jew doesnt remove the fact its there in black and white for anyone with a brain to look at the EVIDENCE, but of course the evidence is provided by someone speaking up against the Jews which in your mind = Jew Hater, which is not always the case.
It is common knowledge USA 'needed' some kind of war, it is also common knowledge about the companies making the money from the war in Iraq and it is also common knowledge that the government officials all have shares in these companies. Surely you have seen the documentaries about Bush, his life, his dad and how he got into office in the first place?? Have you any idea how many Jews are in top positions in USA? Have you any idea who many Jews OWN the media in USA?? I am not being anti Jew here in saying that, its true, its fact, look it up.
And it's good that Jews are in top positions just like other ethnic groups. But with your response you are actually confirm that you indeed have some difficulties with Jewish people.
People can write about Jews and 9/11 but just not bring up utopic crap just like you did with your statement of celebrating Jews while the WTC got eliminated.
Seriously you read and believe stuff what fits your agenda - and it's not in favor of Jews.
And I am not claiming that Michael Rivero, the owner of whatreallyhappened.com, is anti-Semite when infact he is. He's also rattling constantly against the Bush administration. Search the web for statement of and about him.
You try to make a case here actually against the US Government and the Jews that both had something to do with 911 and this is simply absurd. And exactly this very same idea is spread by many Muslims.
Seriously before indulding into delusional stuff you should at first verify the credibility of a source.
Khalas. Have a pleasant day with your son.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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You have a pleasant day too. Son is laid up with gout attack now, I think he just wants to stay in AC all day He seems to think its too hot here for some reason
-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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^^^^^ lol He came at a perfect time to get 'good Egypt heat' didn't he? Just wait until Thursday, he's going to FRY! Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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Your poor boy, Ayisha! Btw, has he been up on a camel or at least on a donkey yet?? Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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The fact you choose not to read it because you claim the writer is anti Jew doesnt remove the fact its there in black and white for anyone with a brain to look at the EVIDENCE, but of course the evidence is provided by someone speaking up against the Jews which in your mind = Jew Hater, which is not always the case.
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