posted
Fears grow that Obama can't winAnalysts believe white working class Democrats will defect to McCain if Clinton is not the nominee Paul Harris in New York The Observer, Sunday June 1 2008 Article historyWith senator Barack Obama poised this week to clinch his party's nomination for President, there are growing fears in some quarters that the Democratic party may not be choosing its strongest candidate to beat Republican John McCain.
Senator Hillary Clinton has been making that argument for weeks. Now some recent polls and analysis, looking particularly at vital battleground states and support among white voters, have bolstered her case - even as Obama looks certain to become the nominee.
Obama supporters reject this argument and point to his record of boosting Democratic voter turnout, especially among the young. But sceptics in the party, already nervous about nominating Obama after the furore over outspoken pastor Jeremiah Wright, are growing increasingly concerned. 'There is an element of buyer's remorse in some areas. The question is whether it gets really strong now or in September - or even after the election is over, if he loses,' said Steve Mitchell, head of political consultancy Mitchell Research.
Another boost to Clinton's case came late last week after a pro-Obama preacher gave a race-tinged rant against her at Obama's church in Chicago. In a recent sermon Michael Pfleger - a long-term Obama backer who is white - mocked Clinton as an entitled white person angry at a black man having beaten her. His angry, red-faced speech, in which he mimicked Clinton weeping, was played repeatedly across American cable channels and the internet.
The news sent shock waves through Democratic circles; many had hoped Obama had put 'pastor problems' behind him. 'It is more of the same problem as Wright. It reinforces the image among some voters that Obama does not share their values,' said Mitchell.
The uproar also lent a disturbingly antagonistic tone to scenes in Washington DC where Clinton and Obama supporters gathered yesterday outside a party rules meeting called to resolve the problem of the disputed Michigan and Florida primaries, which Clinton claims as victories. Clinton supporters chanted 'Count our votes!' and waved placards and banners. Clinton wants those states' delegations seated at the Denver convention, even though they broke party rules by holding early contests.
Obama is now to some extent limping to the finishing line. Clinton's refusal to bow out even though her odds of victory have become almost impossible has seen her win several of the most recent contests. In fact, since 4 March, Clinton has won around half a million more votes than Obama. That run of victories should easily continue today when Puerto Rico goes to the polls, and could even extend to the final primaries - South Dakota and Montana - which vote on Tuesday. Obama had been expected to win there, but Clinton has been campaigning furiously and it could be close.
Clinton has been making the case for several months, as her support has grown stronger among white working class voters, that those voters will not support Obama in a general election. By contrast, experts believe Obama's core - educated Democrats and blacks - will remain loyal to the party no matter who the nominee is. There is strong data to back that up, especially from recent votes in West Virginia and Kentucky where large proportions of Clinton voters said they would not back Obama in November.
There is also a growing fear that many of the women backing Clinton are turning against Obama. Clinton and her supporters have controversially accused their rival, and the media, of being misogynistic in the last few weeks of the race. A recent Pew Poll showed Obama's support among white women collapsing from 56 per cent to 43 per cent.
But the electoral fact remains the same. The dramatic Obama vs Clinton contest is now down to a few hundred uncommitted party 'superdelegates', who are under huge pressure to make their decisions in the next few days. Senior party figures, including House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, have been working privately to convince them to make that decision as soon as possible, ideally this week. With Obama's delegate lead unassailable, the vast majority are almost certain to come over to his side.
Republican analysts, meanwhile, are surprised about how healthy their party's prospects look in a year when almost all indicators suggested they should lose. McCain remains competitive against Obama. He even leads in some key states. Indeed, some research predicts he could romp home against Obama.
It is that prospect, Clinton supporters say, that leads them to keep fighting. They point to Obama's performance in North Carolina as a bellwether: it was his strong win there earlier this month that dealt an almost fatal blow to Clinton's chances. Yet, two weeks after that win, polls showed Clinton easily outperformed Obama there when measured against McCain. 'Clinton has a very strong argument that she is a stronger candidate against McCain. It is just that it has fallen on deaf ears,' said Mitchell.
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Posts: 1023 | From: The spirit of Horemheb lives within us all | Registered: May 2007
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quote: In a recent sermon Michael Pfleger - a long-term Obama backer who is white - mocked Clinton as an entitled white person angry at a black man having beaten her
Bacially this is True
Its Over Hammer Hilary will not get the nomination so why bother
Question are you "Crying" about the Result Posts: 567 | From: USA | Registered: Nov 2005
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Well Smuckers, in light of the conversations we have had I thought the article was informative. Since March 14 Mrs. Clinton has soundly beaten Obama. The problem is that many white voters are turned off by Obama's afrocentric associates. I can tell you that my dad, who never had a racist bone in his body, flipped about three times in his grave when the Rev Wright speech came out. Mrs Clinton is running ahead of Obama vs McCain in just about every state. The dems have clearly made a mistake but its too late to do anything about it.
-------------------- The spirit of Horemheb lives on within us all. Posts: 1023 | From: The spirit of Horemheb lives within us all | Registered: May 2007
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quote: Hammer, they could insist that Obama take on Hilary as a running mate
Never Going to Happen this is the lady who spoke about Obama possible "assassination" how low can a politican go(basically wishing death on you political opponent in your own party )
This is the type of old politics in Washington Obama was talking about,say and do anything cause division to get what you want at the expense of the American people.
Posts: 567 | From: USA | Registered: Nov 2005
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Masonic, If Mrs. Clinton wants on the ticket Obama may not have anything to say about it. He is depending on Super delegates to put him over the top for the nomination. Those same super delegates will vote for VP on the floor. Most of them were former Clinton delegates and can force her on him. That said, putting her on the ticket will not help much as Obama is the problem with many white voters. Blue collar democrats will not support him, the damage has been done and there is more to come. When you lose a voter on "values" issues its almost impossible to get them back.
-------------------- The spirit of Horemheb lives on within us all. Posts: 1023 | From: The spirit of Horemheb lives within us all | Registered: May 2007
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Anyone can read the writing on the wall this year. It's only 100' tall in flashing neon screaming "Obama Landslide". Anyone with half a clue has realized it.
Obama Picking Up Republican Donors
May 30, 2008
WASHINGTON — Beverly Fanning is among the campaign donors who'll be joining President Bush at a gala at Washington's Ford's Theater Sunday night, but she says that won't dissuade her from her current passion: volunteering for Barack Obama's presidential campaign. Among them are Julie Nixon Eisenhower, the daughter of the late GOP President Richard Nixon and wife of late GOP President Dwight Eisenhower's grandson; Connie Ballmer, the wife of Microsoft Chief Executive Officer Steve Ballmer; Ritchie Scaife, the estranged wife of conservative tycoon Richard Mellon Scaife and boxing promoter Don King.
Many of the donors are likely "moderate Republicans or independents who are dissatisfied with the direction of the country now and are looking for change," said Anthony Corrado, a government professor at Colby College in Maine who specializes in campaign finance.
"There is a large block of Republicans, particularly economic conservatives, who just feel that the Republican Party in Washington completely let them down" by failing to control spending and address other problems, Corrado said. "The Republicans have really given these donors no reason to give." - More
American soldiers speak out about their presidential endorsements.
Though the military is not supposed to engage in partisan political activity, these soldiers spoke out about their personal endorsements, and their opinions are likely to matter.
posted
No surprise who in God name wants to do another 8 years Hell on Earth tour in Iraq ?
Posts: 567 | From: USA | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote: Hammer, they could insist that Obama take on Hilary as a running mate
Never Going to Happen this is the lady who spoke about Obama possible "assassination" how low can a politican go(basically wishing death on you political opponent in your own party )
You are free to think what you want to think... Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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When exactly do they decide when the primaries are over and who wins the democratic nomination? Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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Actually it will not really be decided until the convention in August. Neither candidate will have enough pledged delegates to claim the nomimination and will be dependent on super delegates to win. Obama will have enough by next week but the problem is that these super delegates can change their minds at any time.
Many are beginning to have what one democrat called "buyer's remorse" as it becomes clear that many democrats simply will not vote for him this fall. This radical stuff continues to dribble out and the weight of it all continues to define Obama. Since the middle of March Mrs Clinton continues to trounce Obama is one large state after another. She simply blew him out yesterday in Pureto Rico showing yet another Obama weakness, his difficulty with hispanic voters.
The Democratic super delegates have a problem. If they give the nomination to Mrs Clinton, the strongest candidate, black voters will tear the party apart feeling they have been robbed. If they give it to Obama blue collar whites will exit by the millions and they will lose. Howards Dean has simply created the perfect storm in which every option is bad.
Posts: 1023 | From: The spirit of Horemheb lives within us all | Registered: May 2007
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quote: Actually it will not really be decided until the convention in August. Neither candidate will have enough pledged delegates to claim the nomimination
Not True Obama will receive the nomination and will have enough delegates it’s over for Hilary even people in her own party are telling her this it's time for Clinton to fall in line anything else is a waste
Hilary as a running mate? No chance Obama is no Fool
quote: Many are beginning to have what one democrat called "buyer's remorse" as it becomes clear that many democrats simply will not vote for him this fall. This radical stuff continues to dribble out
That is not the reason why some will not vote for Obama and you know this of course
Why would Hilary if chosen (in a different reality) as a running mate would want to be associated with a "Radical” or someone who associates with “Radicals” and by the way Hammer who is the Pastor who gave counsel to Bill Clinton during the Monica Lewinsky scandal Posts: 567 | From: USA | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by With a name like Smuckers: When exactly do they decide when the primaries are over and who wins the democratic nomination?
Smuckers, Tuesday night will be showdown as the last two states Montana and South Dakota will hold their primaries that day.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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Hammer, I have never believed this "mass marketing" of "family values" because even the "fathers" of this movement (Gingrich/Limbaugh/Hastert/gay Republicans, etc wavered from this with their extramarital jousts and other problems! We are all human. Family values are now a codeward!
Hammer said
quote:In a recent sermon Michael Pfleger - a long-term Obama backer who is white - mocked Clinton as an entitled white person angry at a black man having beaten her. His angry, red-faced speech, in which he mimicked Clinton weeping, was played repeatedly across American cable channels and the internet.
My reaction was just the opposte! I saw it in the vein of Saturday Night Live because it was gd funny. I was laughing because it was stingly true and absurd at the same time like the Saturday Night Live skits! It was a comedy routine and nothing more. I am really tired of this PC stuff. The stuff was funny in that Pfleger's pantomine was very uncharacter of Catholic priests vying for archbishop and they seek safe arenas in question of power and position. I admire Pfleger for that quality!
I admire Rush Limbaugh for his adept strategy in OPERATION CHAOS, albeit ironic and comical but Republicans voting for Obama can most surely counterbalance the Democrats refusing to vote for Obama! Democracy in action so let there be no compulsion on both sides! If people want to vote against their economic interest then praise God!
You are absolutely correct on you use of the word as stated! Hammer stated
quote:fear
and you are on target!
It was stated that
quote:Clinton supporters chanted 'Count our votes!' and waved placards and banners. Clinton wants those states' delegations seated at the Denver convention, even though they broke party rules by holding early contests.
Clinton and Obama signed decalration noting that both states would not count and now her surrogates pretend that never happened so there is no family values attribute in that realm. Both Ickes and friends even acknowledged that FL and MI would not count and now they attempt to deceive (they did succeed) in tricking their audience with speech (by Ickes) and his threats! Family values at its best!
Hillary Clinton tried to upstage the SuperDelegates when she thought they were moving in her direction but she moved again the goal post and now she is one the most popular votes bamdwagon when her party's stance on that is as presently known!
Hammer said
quote: Since the middle of March Mrs Clinton continues to trounce Obama is one large state after another. She simply blew him out yesterday in Pureto Rico showing yet another Obama weakness, his difficulty with hispanic voters.
Puerto Ricans are US citizens and are distinct from the demographics of Cubans and the now Mexicans, who ar ethe bulk of Hispanics. So Hispanic is not a block vote party like as the media would like us to believe.
Obama blew away HRC in as many states and more that she is now presently winning! I am surprised that HRC would want us to believe that the big states are 'worth more' (erroneous impression she is presently giving those who may be gullible) but as a part insider and long time Democrat, each state delegates are proportional so each state is still equal unless they start breaking rules and refuse to follow the guidelines as set up!
I still luv ya Hammer! god bless america!
Posts: 1290 | From: usa | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by The Hammer: Blue collar democrats will not support him, the damage has been done and there is more to come.
How much blue-collar support would Obama need? Not a majority. Though blue-collar Democrats once represented a centerpiece of the New Deal coalition, they have shrunk as a proportion of the information age-economy and as a proportion of the Democratic base. More
.
Posts: 1549 | From: California, USA | Registered: Jan 2006
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Clinton Only Needs 358% of Remaining Delegates
Puerto Rico has voted, handing Senator Clinton 38 delegates and Senator Obama 17. That gives Clinton a grand total thus far of 1,618 pledged delegates, and Obama 1,728. While, technically that still leaves Obama with "the lead," there are 31 pledged delegates remaining to be awarded in Montana and South Dakota. This means that Clinton can still pull it out if she picks up 358 percent of the remaining delegates.
posted
They have shrunk but they are still the largest group in the democratic party. Myra, Mrs Clinton has beaten Obama badly since March 15th when the rev. Wright stuff first came out. I am very surprised that you would over look the radicalism of many of his close associates but be assured many white people will not. Not only that but the damage is worse in key states where Obama must win if he is to have any chance of being elected. As the article I posted poined out Obama supporters are in denial on how badly they have been damaged but the election returns from all of these primaries show a different picture.
Masonic, You have confused Super delegates with pledged delegates. Pledged delegates MUST vote for Obama on the first ballot....not so Super delegates. He will not have a majortity of delegates until the votes are cast at the convention BECAUSE no matter what the super delegates say now they can change their minds at any time. Mrs Clinton will spend the summer trying to convince the super delegates to change their minds on the basis that she is the candidate who can win in november and she is correct. If one more radical rpoblem comes out of the woodwork the super delegates could change their mind. One shifted back to her yestwerday.
The democrats did not check out Obama before this all began and now they have a problem.
-------------------- The spirit of Horemheb lives on within us all. Posts: 1023 | From: The spirit of Horemheb lives within us all | Registered: May 2007
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McCain was initially successful in consolidating his Republican base while expanding his reach across the center and even among Democrats. But McCain’s attacks on Obama and support of Bush on key issues are driving away Democrats, including moderate Democrats and maybe even independents. McCain has lost ground with older women, unmarried women and in union households. But his tilt to the center and possible dispute with an evangelical pastor seems to have cost him among conservative Republicans and evangelicals. McCain’s thermometer score dropped 8 net-points among conservative Republicans and 14 net-points among white devout evangelicals.
Charles Bloomer is a Senior Writer for Enter Stage Right: "Republicans can not afford to be a lighter version of the Democrats. Given a choice between voting for a Democrat with a Democrat agenda and voting for a Republican with a Democrat agenda, the voters will choose the Democrat."
It’s the Economy, Stupid
Voters say that the economy is the biggest driver of the vote this year, but when we ask about why the country is off track an equal number pick security (Iraq) and economy related issues. The two biggest items are America continuing to be bogged down in Iraq and spending billions and the rising cost of living, including gas prices and groceries. When, we force voters to choose, the economy wins out decisively.
The War in Iraq
Iraq is already a central argument in the campaign and one Obama wins on the merits. No matter how we develop the debate, McCain loses it by nearly 20 points, as over 60 percent of voters want to start reducing troops.
quote: Masonic, You have confused Super delegates with pledged delegates
No I don't
quote: Mrs Clinton will spend the summer trying to convince the super delegates to change their minds
She got no shot you'll see just wait, but it always good to pray not that that it will help in Hiliary case, anyway I have a theory on why the Republicans want Hilary to stay in the race, the purpose is to keep focus off of McCain
This is Happening now Actually
Posts: 567 | From: USA | Registered: Nov 2005
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Anyway (in a different reality ) if Hilary were to receive the nomimination McCain would OWN her in the election, I think you know this you see the NeoCons and the Republicans have unfinished business with the Clintons.
Posts: 567 | From: USA | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Here it is in the 2008 general election, The McCain Six: Sen. Phil Gramm, Thomas G. Loeffler, Doug Goodyear, Doug Davenport, Rick Davis, and lets not forget Charlie Black, McCain's chief adviser, who worked for some of the world's worst dictators--mass murderers, terrorists, and tyrants. Fire Charlie Black
.
Posts: 1549 | From: California, USA | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
I am voting for the 'lesser' of all evils knowing all politicians are the same. Obama, of bi-racial heritage is cultured, educated and knows both sides of the social problems in America, i.e. from the POV as having an immigrant African father and his Euro-American mother. In reeality, that in itself is not special but Obama and his multi-ethnic family is a message of people working together, regardless of disparate viewpoints. Obama, since day 1 has been gracious and magnanimous towards his opponents and has carried himself as a truly disciplined individual regarding his personal characteristics and relatioships.
I am aware of all the Rev Wright and Fr. Pflager and Ayers silliness (yes, anyone can talk about them and last time I checked, this is free speech) but they are all distraction to my mind! Ayers paid for his crimes, and both Wright and Pflager often speak a truth that most people do not want to hear!
Posts: 1290 | From: usa | Registered: May 2005
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Its ineveitable, like it or not, he must comply with it. Come on people its ABC US politics, its a frame work of foreign policy that shall never change. u know what, if osama bin laden is sworn a US president he will pledge his support to Israel...
Posts: 689 | From: Miami Beach, FL | Registered: Mar 2004
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Any American President will be pri Israel, Doc77 is correct. Many on this board have a very distorted view of the way American foreign policy works. The president cannot just sit down and design a policy of his choice. The president cannot just wake uop some morning and deside to invade some country. "American Interests" drive all of his decisions and he cannot maintain power if he does not uphold them. Business leaders, Congress, the CIA, military leaders etc must all be behind any decision a president promotes.
There is also a major difference in what politicans say on the campaign trail and what they actually do in office. We saw that clearly when the DEMS campaigned on ending the war in 2006 and then gave it thier full support once in office.
yazid, That you would say that Pflager and wright apeak the truth is simply bizarre.
-------------------- The spirit of Horemheb lives on within us all. Posts: 1023 | From: The spirit of Horemheb lives within us all | Registered: May 2007
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Both Wright and Pfleger speak A truth! As I said, the Pfleger incident was a good laugh just like the Saturday Night Live skits because it reflected a reality! I do no see how anyone could have saw it other than. It as gd funny! Again I do not believe everything they say but again I admire George Bush but I do not believe everything he says. He said WMDs were in Iraq but evidence proved otherwise!
When Hillary Clinton said (implied in codewords) that she was sticking around in case Obama was X'ed, she spoke truth, albeit sounding divisive and unconiliatory and she said it twice! In truth, she came out and said it explicitely.
I admire Dick Cheney but when he said the inbreeding thing about West Virginia, he had a pass but he is still well liked in West Virginia like a brother. Hardly a blip on the screen but as he stated, he is not running for office!
Posts: 1290 | From: usa | Registered: May 2005
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I am voting for the 'lesser' of all evils knowing all politicians are the same. Obama, of bi-racial heritage is cultured, educated and knows both sides of the social problems in America, i.e. from the POV as having an immigrant African father and his Euro-American mother.
Please clarify: Are you saying that Obama's multi-ethnic background renders him "the lesser of all evils knowing all politicians are the same"?
quote:Yazid writes:
In reeality, that in itself is not special but Obama and his multi-ethnic family is a message of people working together, regardless of disparate viewpoints.
In what way? — as opposed to his *actual* socio-political viewpoints; do those viewpoints really parallel that of the people?
quote:Yazid writes:
Obama, since day 1 has been gracious and magnanimous towards his opponents and has carried himself as a truly disciplined individual regarding his personal characteristics and relatioships.
Interesting. So, is this the deciding factor of why you support him, or is there more?
quote:Strangeways writes:
Obama pledges support for Israel
Yes, and all the other presidential candidates have done the same; is this the deciding factor for you?
Posts: 233 | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:Obama's multi-ethnic background renders him "the lesser of all evils knowing all politicians are the same"?
BUT I was only acknowledging his bi-racial background as opposed the the US socio-construct as 'black'! Yes! All politicians are the same in that they have to kow-tow to irrational policies because their predecessors did.
Ausarian questioned
quote:do those viewpoints really parallel that of the people?
but some people see the possibility of hope in voting someone new into the landscape WHILE a large segment in some US states will NEVER vote for a "black" (sociopolitical designation) man and they actually have said that. Others have stated that only a "white" (my quotes) man should represent USA America.
Obama's viewpoints do speak well to those who vote for him so in that sense they parallel each other. Hillary's "blue collar base" WILL NOT PARALLEL those of Obama so perhaps the word may be SOME but sadly that is too little a response when Hillary's base will (MAY) PARALLEL the opponent McCain!
I did say
quote:Obama, since day 1 has been gracious and magnanimous towards his opponents and has carried himself as a truly disciplined individual regarding his personal characteristics and relatioships.
although I meant to say more but I will add that foreign "blacks" (I use the US sociopolitical framing of the word black, which at times may give the appearance of meaning not so good, etc, within US American parlance despite the positive develeopments and social uplifing of African American goals in the past 50 years), have the appearance of being more gracious, with social bearing, dignity, poised, etc as opposed to the Sharptons et al whose names are tossed around when the media want to paint a brush to emotionalize the 'blue collar base!
This is one factor and a small one at that but all of this is individual preference on my part and not meant to reflect what others may seem more important. Just the short version. I am sure I will get feedback on the above.
Ausarian stated
quote:Yes, and all the other presidential candidates have done the same (support for Israel) is this the deciding factor for you?
No US president should have to kow-tow to any foreign country but if Obama did not do as he did, his "handlers" would make it tough for him so he had to do what he did!
Imagine Bush making the trip to Israel, then McCain, then Hillary saying she would obliterate Iran if it attacked Israel so I find it funny that Israel is being courted like it was an Ameican state in voting contention! So Obama has to do likewise and that is expediency at its apex but again the American people (the many) have no clue! That is the least of my choices but if Obama did not do as he did, they would make it difficult for him with the influence pf certain groups.
The true power in US politics is not the face you see as president or otherwise. It is the hidden group(s) who wish and will continue to be faceless and nameless!
Posts: 1290 | From: usa | Registered: May 2005
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Well, Yazid, you thought wrong about what I was thinking. I made it abundantly clear that I was asking you questions to clarify your positions. If I had made up my mind about what you thought, would I have needed to ask those questions? Think about it.
quote:Yazid writes:
quote:Obama's multi-ethnic background renders him "the lesser of all evils knowing all politicians are the same"?
BUT I was only acknowledging his bi-racial background as opposed the the US socio-construct as 'black'! Yes! All politicians are the same in that they have to kow-tow to irrational policies because their predecessors did.
Ok then. I'll take it that his 'bi-racial' background was not a voting issue for you.
quote:Yazid writes:
Ausarian questioned
quote:do those viewpoints really parallel that of the people?
but some people see the possibility of hope in voting someone new into the landscape WHILE a large segment in some US states will NEVER vote for a "black" (sociopolitical designation) man and they actually have said that. Others have stated that only a "white" (my quotes) man should represent USA America.
Obama's viewpoints do speak well to those who vote for him so in that sense they parallel each other.
How does Obama's *actual* viewpoints parallel your own, hence not speaking for others but yourself. Mind you, I'm not talking about his empty populist campaign rhetorics...like bringing all the troops home shortly after getting into office, for example.
quote:Yazid writes:
I did say
quote:Obama, since day 1 has been gracious and magnanimous towards his opponents and has carried himself as a truly disciplined individual regarding his personal characteristics and relatioships.
although I meant to say more but I will add that foreign "blacks" (I use the US sociopolitical framing of the word black, which at times may give the appearance of meaning not so good, etc, within US American parlance despite the positive develeopments and social uplifing of African American goals in the past 50 years), have the appearance of being more gracious, with social bearing, dignity, poised, etc as opposed to the Sharptons et al whose names are tossed around when the media want to paint a brush to emotionalize the 'blue collar base!
But what about you; do these [highlighted] reflect your views?
quote:Yazid writes:
This is one factor and a small one at that but all of this is individual preference on my part
But why?
quote:Yazid writes:
and not meant to reflect what others may seem more important. Just the short version. I am sure I will get feedback on the above.
Alright, you got me there.
quote:Yazid writes:
Ausarian stated
quote:Yes, and all the other presidential candidates have done the same (support for Israel) is this the deciding factor for you?
No US president should have to kow-tow to any foreign country but if Obama did not do as he did, his "handlers" would make it tough for him so he had to do what he did!
I agree. Fact is Obama will operate within the confines of US imperialism's foreign policy. He'd come nowhere near the white house, if the ruling establishment, aka Democrats and Republicans alike, didn't think that they could count on him for that; and you can bet, he won't stay in the white house, if and when he veers from that foreign policy.
quote:Yazid writes:
Imagine Bush making the trip to Israel, then McCain, then Hillary saying she would obliterate Iran if it attacked Israel so I find it funny that Israel is being courted like it was an Ameican state in voting contention!
But Israel is tantamount to one. In fact, the reason Israel become a regional military power, is precisely because of its unwavering proactive US support. This US support stems from no "cultural sympathy" with Israel or genuine care for ordinary Israeli people, but for Israel to be an important regional tool for US imperialism, which is that: Israel is pretty much made to be a garrison state for US imperialism's interests in the so-called "Middle East"; it is meant to act as a regional police on behalf of US imperialism — that's the real US interest behind supporting Israel, and hence, viewing any attack on it, as an attack on the US itself. Obama, like the other presidential candidates understand this; which is why he'd tow the line to the tee, with regards to US-Israel relations.
quote:Yazid writes:
So Obama has to do likewise and that is expediency at its apex but again the American people (the many) have no clue!
As I noted above; Obama's campaign message on Israel, is no empty campaign trail rhetoric. Obama has vowed to tow the line with US imperialism's interests, both domestically and internationally. The same cannot be assessed for his more "populist" rhetoric.
quote:Yazid writes:
That is the least of my choices but if Obama did not do as he did, they would make it difficult for him with the influence pf certain groups.
He'd not get anywhere near the White House, if Obama was perceived to be genuinely hostile to US imperialism, beyond campaign trail rhetoric. And there is little evidence that Obama himself is not a genuine supporter of US imperialism.
Posts: 233 | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:I'll take it that his 'bi-racial' background was not a voting issue for you
Obama is as American as McCain despite what some of his opponents say, to wit, he is not a real American, whatever hat means! My only intent was being objective vs emotional in the 'facts'. nah worries, mon!
To reiterate, I agree that support for Israel is not empty rhetoric but it appears pivotal in Middle East policy due to other Arab states refusing to accept Palestinians along with the many broken promises of Arab states to recognize the West Bank with Israeli withdrawal amongst other things. Israel seems to have bent over backwards for peace but "Arab unity" has failed to honour with the same intensity Israel's sacrifice on living in peace.
One would imagine that with the discord that the Palestinians would go to other Arab countries for resources but instead they flock to Israel that they despise!
Posts: 1290 | From: usa | Registered: May 2005
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Most of us know of McCains first wife, but The DailyMail has a story titled 'The wife U.S. Republican John McCain callously left behind' and it contains some bombs, and may dash the hopes of McCain capturing the 'disgruntled women' vote. Interview with Carol McCain.
What is most noteworthy is just how poorly McCain has done with female donors when measured against Obama. So, for all the talk about whether Clinton's female support might migrate to McCain, it's instructive to see just how poorly McCain has done with women.
posted
He'll do better than Obama with white women Myra. No democrat has carried the white vote since LBJ in 1964, 44 years ago. It would logical to assume Obama will not do as well as Bill clinton, Al Gore and John Kerry, none of whom carried the white vote. You have to factor race into the equation.
-------------------- The spirit of Horemheb lives on within us all. Posts: 1023 | From: The spirit of Horemheb lives within us all | Registered: May 2007
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posted
Hammer: You have to factor "anger" into the equation.
Mean spirited McCain is known for throwing temper tantrums, flying off the handle, blowing his top, seething with anger, accusing others of lying, and of mistreating POW/MIA family members. So how will he treat U.S.? POW/MIA families report... You decide
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Posts: 1549 | From: California, USA | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
So now John McCain is the image of evil. Myra, you people are pathetic. You simply lack the ability to conduct any sort of civil campaign. Bill and Hillary are heroes in the black community for twenty years and are turned into dracula because they dare to oppose Barak Obama, a guy who was a frickin State Senator two years ago. Now John McCain, a man respected by people from all political spectrums gets the same trash job. What some see is two liberals running for the democratic presidental nomination and one of them, the black guy, gets 92% of the black vote. How in the hell is that not racism? When you CANNOT run a campaign without vicious personal attacks you lose all of your credibility and deserve to lose.
-------------------- The spirit of Horemheb lives on within us all. Posts: 1023 | From: The spirit of Horemheb lives within us all | Registered: May 2007
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posted
I think, like all the candidate presidents before him, Obama does not need to worry about that same demograph as you noted! The White House can still be won by those Americans who seek to vote their interest as opposed to those wh vote against said interests!
Which one will prevail? I hope that, as William Jefferson Clinton noted, that people should vote their hope and not their fears!
god bless america!
Posts: 1290 | From: usa | Registered: May 2005
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posted
It appears yazid that many like Myra are voting their skin color in picking Senator Obama over Mrs Clinton. It always seems that those who protest the most about racism are the quickest to practice it. They may vote their hopes or their fears if they wishe. Hopes and fears have little to do with the particular philosophy of any of this years three leading candidates.
-------------------- The spirit of Horemheb lives on within us all. Posts: 1023 | From: The spirit of Horemheb lives within us all | Registered: May 2007
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posted
I said it before and will say it again, if Obama was a white man he wouldn't be where he is right now. Hillary would have gotten the democratic nomination that's for sure. African-American voters are going nuts over an black presidental candidate.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
^LOL, and if Bush were a black man the same would DEFINITELY be true. However everyone who can see and hear knows Obama has 10x the intelligence of George Bush Sr. or Junior, or John McCain.
My greatest pleasure in all this will be to see racist Dixiecrats like Hammer lose their freaky minds as their nightmare of the reality of a US black president gets closer and closer to becoming true.
LOL, I can hear them now, it's starting. No Rudy G. for Hammer, and McCain is cold toast.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
Hammer, in his emotional state, opined that
quote:Bill and Hillary are heroes in the black community for twenty years and are turned into dracula because they dare to oppose Barak Obama
BUT that was blatantly untrue with the second part of the statement!
I love Hillary Clinton (note how I used this statement like talk radio does to show their objectivity and it is clever so I use it also) but when watching the debates I was turned off by certain questions that when she answered, her response was to cast aspersion where none existed. It works only for those who may not be politically adept but one question asked of HRC was "Is Barack Obama a Christian?" which sounded absurd to me but that is how it is. No problem! Why was that asked of Obama when other candidates wer not asked the same question? No problem! It's silly season! Is Hagee a Christian? WHo really cares? But HRC answer was "He says he is!". Waht does that really mean? Anyway, it's American politics.
Obama was more gracious (despite his obvious)frustration on many televised events) on telling citizens (at least those who listened) only vote for me if you want CHANGE (I realize change itself is vague so we agree here) and he even stated on numerous occasions that whoever won, that person would be a great nominee for the Democratic party.
HRC appeared skillful and even cooperated with her nemesis (Scaiffe-NOW THAT IS REAL CHANGE WE COULD HAVE COUNTED ON so in this sense HRC is about CHANGE! How real can you get. The stories about Obama being a Muslim was leaked by surrogates to further emotionalize the greater audience along with her further praise (nothing wrong with that) of opponent John McCain, which is good, that Democrates and Republicans can work together! MORE CHANGE OF THAT TYPE, a good things because of events like these more citizens are energized to come out to vote for and against their choices! Another good things.
It is HRC actions that caused people to vote for Obama and not against her.
In my estimation, probably 17% (CI 15-29%) of HRC's constituents will vote McCain but that will be balanced by Republicans voting for the Democrat nominee a la Rush Limbaugh's exposition on his strategy.
I still luv ya Hammer!
Posts: 1290 | From: usa | Registered: May 2005
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posted
From Meninarmer: ''However everyone who can see and hear knows Obama has 10x the intelligence of George Bush Sr. or Junior, or John McCain.''
If this isn't a rhetorical comment then if he's elected president let's see how much intelligence he will use trying to keep some policies status quo and undo others and in the process irritate some people... from both sides. Looks like he's trapped with his blazing IQ.
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
Although he undoubtedly does, I didn't say I was basing this assessment on that qualifier. Anyhow, Bush's IQ score, as well as McCain's aren't anything one should attempt to bring attention to.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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