quote:Originally posted by Pure_Egyptian: If you mean they would call me the N word, Here are some pics of my son to prove that we ARE egyptians, and not arabs or turkish, the greek def would not of called us the "N" word. I would post pics of my self but i do not feel like uploading them from the camera.
Looks pretty Egyptian to me..
Pure Egyptian first off I have not denied you are Egyptian. Hell I belive there were lighter Egyptians but my problem is your claim that black Egyptians were slaves and that Nubians have nothing to do with Egypt.
First off the Nubians come in different shades not just pitch black and third the Nubians are the closest both Culturally and Genetically as well as physically to Egyptians.
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Jari, that is a blatant disrespect for you to try and tell a genuine Egyptian their history. I don't get it with you afrocentrists. Who are you to dictate to other people their heritage?
-------------------- Will destroy all Black Lies Posts: 2025 | Registered: Dec 2009
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Gigantic Im not denying he is Egyptian bro. I already said I believe Egyptians were lighter in the North Darker in the south to skeptic which is what most folks believe. My only disagreement is his claim that Black Egyptians were slaves, the Black Egyptians are his blood brothers wether he likes it or not and many black Egyptians were Royalty and came from the South.
Im not telling him his history...HIS ANCESTOR are telling him his history...PERIOD!!
I have no problem with light Egyptians in A. Egypt I have a problem when folks say the Black Egyptians were slaves, that is cruel and mean to say to people who were an important part of Pharonic Egypt.
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Where did i say they we're slaves, i never said that, Egypt once had a nubian only sect of their army, I just disagree with Nubians being the only ethnicity in Egypt as everyone claims, as you can tell, My son doesnt look arab or turkish, so where else am i to be from? China?
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quote:Originally posted by Pure_Egyptian: Where did i say they we're slaves, i never said that, Egypt once had a nubian only sect of their army, I just disagree with Nubians being the only ethnicity in Egypt as everyone claims, as you can tell, My son doesnt look arab or turkish, so where else am i to be from? China?
First off lets make it clear you have me mistaken for folks like Mike111, I never said you nor modern Lower Egyptians were "Turks" or "Arabs" nor that you should not claim Egypt as your heritage.
Second I never said "Nubians" were the only type found in Egypt?? Come on dude that's crazy talk.
Here is where you made that comment..
quote:Originally posted by Pure_Egyptian: Why do AA try to take away the Egyptians history, by saying there arabs or turks. That is not true at all, i myself am an Egyptian and laugh at the AA desperate attempts to try and connect themselves with AE, I am from the Fellaheen, 4 all u uneducated ppl, fellaheen means farmer, n those farmers have farmed the niles since thetimes of the pharoahs. i am tan, and have curly black hair, not white, n i dont ever get mistaken for black but usually as a mediteranean type. DNA tests shows there are no other people more related to the AE as the Modern Egyptians, whether they are mixed or not. It's also pretty obv that Egyptians are Africans, but being Africans doesnt mean your categorized as "black" but just African. North Africans are of the cacausion race, and noone is saying there we're never blacks in Egypt bc there were but they we're slaves.
Now maybe you were just fighting Fire with Fire, but to say all the black Egyptians were slaves??
Again I understand where you feel angry that folks like Mike111 say you are a Turk, but don't bash your blood brothers in Upper Egypt and Nubia because of folks like Mike111.
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and btw i am very aware that i have some african ancestry it would be inevitable for me not to, but as a race i do not think Egyptians were Black African
Posts: 61 | From: Egyptian | Registered: Aug 2010
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i'm not bashing anyone, i DO have upper egyptian in me as does most of Egypt, and i accept there were all kinds of ethnicities in Egypt but i get upset when everyone tells me i am a fake, when in truth i have more ancestry to AE then they probably do
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Btw would it be cool if we could take those photos off of my son, just wanted to prove a point, i dont feel comfortable with my son photos on the internet, thanks
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Cool man I took them off, like I said I don't think you look like a Turk, or that you are not Egyptian.
In my opinion I think it would be best to say Egypt was Tropically adapted as opposed to Mixed, Mediteranain or Black. Mixed means that the Egyptians were not Native to the Nile Valley, Mediterannain ignores the Upper Egyptians(If any thing Lower Egypt was Med, and Upper Egypt was Black) and Black Ignores Lower Egyptian like you who are dark but not black.
I think tropically adapted fits better.
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quote:Originally posted by Pure_Egyptian: and btw i am very aware that i have some african ancestry it would be inevitable for me not to, but as a race i do not think Egyptians were Black African
Please show something that would indicate that Egyptians were NOT Black Africans. But be careful and authenticate what you post. Because as demonstrated, I don't have much use for you lying Turks and Turk Mutts. So if it's wrong, I will jump on it.
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First off, mike. I am EGYPTIAN not you... ok so if anyones ancestors are to be the AE it would be mine and not yours, so i really have no reason to prove to you anything but i will just to try and get you on the right path. First off North Africa has always been inhabited by caucasians, i.e the Berbers. Secondly there is proof that people from a few millenia moved from the caucus area into what is now North Africa, if anything the AEgyptians were of Mixed decent and not full blooded ancestry, and the Nubians are considered racially different here in Egypt, and they know that too. And how are you to call my a Turk when you dont even know my ancestry if anything your the mutt, and your not even DECENDED tothe AE in anyway, especially since your (British origin) great grandfather probably raped your slave grandmother on his plantation...
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quote:Originally posted by Pure_Egyptian: First off, mike. I am EGYPTIAN not you... ok so if anyones ancestors are to be the AE it would be mine and not yours, so i really have no reason to prove to you anything but i will just to try and get you on the right path. First off North Africa has always been inhabited by caucasians, i.e the Berbers. Secondly there is proof that people from a few millenia moved from the caucus area into what is now North Africa, if anything the AEgyptians were of Mixed decent and not full blooded ancestry, and the Nubians are considered racially different here in Egypt, and they know that too. And how are you to call my a Turk when you dont even know my ancestry if anything your the mutt, and your not even DECENDED tothe AE in anyway, especially since your (British origin) great grandfather probably raped your slave grandmother on his plantation...
Pure_Egyptian - Like most ragheaded Turks you are ignorant, so I thank you for this opportunity to educate you. And I would hope that you would share the knowledge that you gain from me, with your fellow ragheads.
First lets establish what everybody looked like in ancient times.
Please indicate which, if any, of these people that you look like.
This is an Egyptian (Amenhotep III)
This is a Nubian
This is a Libyan (Berber)
This is a southern Arab from 715 B.C.
This is a northern Arab from 645 B.C. From a Assyrian relief
Your education will continue in the next frame.
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Pure_Egyptian - I will pause for a while, so that you can indicate which of the above people YOU look like.
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quote:Originally posted by Pure_Egyptian: Where did i say they we're slaves, i never said that, Egypt once had a nubian only sect of their army, I just disagree with Nubians being the only ethnicity in Egypt as everyone claims, as you can tell, My son doesnt look arab or turkish, so where else am i to be from? China?
From where do your ancestors originate?
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quote:Originally posted by Pure_Egyptian: First off, mike. I am EGYPTIAN not you... ok so if anyones ancestors are to be the AE it would be mine and not yours, so i really have no reason to prove to you anything but i will just to try and get you on the right path. First off North Africa has always been inhabited by caucasians, i.e the Berbers. Secondly there is proof that people from a few millenia moved from the caucus area into what is now North Africa, if anything the AEgyptians were of Mixed decent and not full blooded ancestry, and the Nubians are considered racially different here in Egypt, and they know that too. And how are you to call my a Turk when you dont even know my ancestry if anything your the mutt, and your not even DECENDED tothe AE in anyway, especially since your (British origin) great grandfather probably raped your slave grandmother on his plantation...
quote:Originally posted by Pure_Egyptian: and btw i am very aware that i have some african ancestry it would be inevitable for me not to, but as a race i do not think Egyptians were Black African
Then a king will come from the South, Ameny, the justified, my name, Son of a woman of Ta-Seti, child of Upper Egypt, He will take the white crown, he willjoin the Two Mighty Ones (the two crowns)
Asiatics will fall to his sword, Libyans will fall to his flame, Rebels to his wrath, traitors to his might, As the serpent on his brow subdues the rebels for him,
One will build the Walls-of-the-Ruler, To bar Asiatics from entering Egypt...
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Pure_Egyptian - I know that you must be thinking: What, didn't anyone take pictures of people who look like me in Egypt? I know that I exist, and I know that I live in Egypt!
Quite right you are Pure_Egyptian, but don't forget; the conversation is about YOU being an Egyptian. Not whether or not you live in Egypt.
There are lots of pictures of people who look like you in Egypt.
Egypt - Grain Merchant, Cairo
Egypt - Arab water-carrier girls
Egypt - Egyptian Girls, Old Cairo.
Egypt - Bedouins, Alexandria
Egypt - Natives on Donkeys, Kasr-en-Nil.
Like I said above: There are lots of pictures of people who look like you in Egypt. And the KEY to how they (and you) got there, is the soldiers in RED uniforms above.Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Cool man I took them off, like I said I don't think you look like a Turk, or that you are not Egyptian.
In my opinion I think it would be best to say Egypt was Tropically adapted as opposed to Mixed, Mediteranain or Black. Mixed means that the Egyptians were not Native to the Nile Valley, Mediterannain ignores the Upper Egyptians(If any thing Lower Egypt was Med, and Upper Egypt was Black) and Black Ignores Lower Egyptian like you who are dark but not black.
I think tropically adapted fits better.
Ancient humans 'followed rains'
The Eastern Sahara covers an area the size of Western Europe
Prehistoric humans roamed the world's largest desert for some 5,000 years, archaeologists have revealed.
The Eastern Sahara of Egypt, Sudan, Libya and Chad was home to nomadic people who followed rains that turned the desert into grassland.
When the landscape dried up about 7,000 years ago, there was a mass exodus to the Nile and other parts of Africa.
The close link between human settlement and climate has lessons for today, researchers report in Science.
"Even modern day conflicts such as Dafur are caused by environmental degradation as it has been in the past," Dr Stefan Kropelin of the University of Cologne, Germany, told the BBC News website.
"The basic struggle for food, water and pasture is still a big problem in the Sahara zone. This process started thousands of years ago and has a long tradition.
Jigsaw puzzle
The Eastern Sahara, which covers more than 2 million sq km, an area the size of Western Europe, is now almost uninhabited by people or animals, providing a unique window into the past.
Rock art from the "swimmers cave" in remote southwest Egypt.
The settlers left their mark with art
Dr Kropelin and colleague Dr Rudolph Kuper pieced together the 10,000-year jigsaw of human migration and settlement; studying more than 100 archaeological sites over the course of 30 years.
In the largest study of its kind, they built up a detailed picture of human evolution in the world's largest desert. They found that far from the inhospitable climate of today, the area was once semi-humid.
Between about 14,000 and 13,000 years ago, the area was very dry. But a drastic switch in environmental conditions some 10,500 years ago brought rain and monsoon-like conditions.
Nomadic human settlers moved in from the south, taking up residence beside rivers and lakes. They were hunter-gatherers at first, living off plants and wild game.
Eventually they became more settled, domesticating cattle for the first time, and making intricate pottery.
Neolithic farmers Humid conditions prevailed until about 6,000 years ago, when the Sahara abruptly dried out. There was then a gradual exodus of people to the Nile Valley and other parts of the African continent.
"The Nile Valley was almost devoid of settlement until about exactly the time that the Egyptian Sahara was so dry people could not live there anymore," Dr Kropelin told the BBC News website.
The domestication of cattle was invented in the Sahara in the humid phase and was then slowly pushed over the rest of Africa Dr Stefan Kropelin of the University of Cologne
"People preferred to live on savannah land. Only when this wasn't possible they migrated towards southern Sudan and the Nile.
"They brought all their know-how to the rest of the continent - the domestication of cattle was invented in the Sahara in the humid phase and was then slowly pushed over the rest of Africa.
"This Neolithic way of life, which still is a way of life in a sense; preservation of food for the dry season and many other such cultural elements, was introduced to central and southern Africa from the Sahara."
Motor of evolution' Dr Kuper said the distribution of people and languages, which is so politically important today, has its roots in the desiccation of the Sahara. The switch in environmental conditions acted as a "motor of Africa's evolution," he said. "It happened during these 5,000 years of the savannah that people changed from hunter-gathers to cattle keepers," he said. "This important step in human history has been made for the first time in the African Sahara."
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Cool man I took them off, like I said I don't think you look like a Turk, or that you are not Egyptian.
In my opinion I think it would be best to say Egypt was Tropically adapted as opposed to Mixed, Mediteranain or Black. Mixed means that the Egyptians were not Native to the Nile Valley, Mediterannain ignores the Upper Egyptians(If any thing Lower Egypt was Med, and Upper Egypt was Black) and Black Ignores Lower Egyptian like you who are dark but not black.
I think tropically adapted fits better.
What most usually don't know", is that:
The Sahara Desert covers over 3.5 million square miles and has only 2.5 million inhabitants - roughly 1 person per square mile (0.4 sq km)- which is one of the lowest population densities on earth. Wherever abundant food and water sources occur, one will find relatively large masses of people and wildlife. On the whole, the Sahara is one of the harshest environments known to man.
Many researchers have gone into the Sahara looking for clues as to how long ago humans began inhabiting the desert. According to archaeologists, the Sahara was much more densely populated thousands of years ago when the desert's climate was not as harsh as it is today. Fossils, rock art, stone artifacts, bone harpoons, shells and many other items have been found in areas which today are considered too hot and dry to inhabit. This suggests that these areas were quite habitable thousands of years ago, but that the climate of the Sahara has since changed drastically. The artifacts found were located near remains of giraffe, elephant, buffalo, antelopes, rhinoceros, and warthog, as well as the remains of fish, crocodiles, hippopotamuses and other aquatic animals which suggests that thousands of years ago water was quite abundant in the Sahara.
The Sahara itself is at least as large as the whole of Europe, if not bigger.
The Sahara's topographical features include shallow basins, large oasis depressions, serirs or regs (gravel-covered plains), plateaus, mountains, sand sheets, dunes and sand seas (ergs). The highest part of the desert is at the summit of Mount Koussi, which is 11,204 feet (3,415 m) high. However, the lowest point of the Sahara is 436 feet (133 m) below sea level: in the Qattera Depression in Egypt.
Over 25 percent of the Sahara's surface is covered by sand sheets and dunes. The most common types of dunes include tied dunes, blowout dunes, barchan and transverse dunes, longitudinal seirfs, and complex sand seas. Within the Sahara are several pyramidal dunes that reach over 500 feet in height while the draa, a mountainous sand ridge, reaches over 1,000 feet. Researchers have for many years tried to figure out how these dunes were formed, but the case remains unsolved.
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quote:Originally posted by Pure_Egyptian: i'm not bashing anyone, i DO have upper egyptian in me as does most of Egypt, and i accept there were all kinds of ethnicities in Egypt but i get upset when everyone tells me i am a fake, when in truth i have more ancestry to AE then they probably do
An Examination of Nubian and Egyptian biological distances: Support for biological diffusion or in situ development?
Homo. 2009;60(5):389-404. Epub 2009 Sep 19.
Godde K. Department of Anthropology, University of Tennessee, Knoxville, 250 South Stadium Hall, Knoxville, TN 37996, USA. kgodde@utk.edu
"The clustering of the Nubian and Egyptian samples together supports this paper's hypothesis and demonstrates that there may be a close relationship between the two populations. This relationship is consistent with Berry and Berry (1972), among others, who noted a similarity between Nubians and Egyptians. If Nubians and Egyptians were not biologically similar, one would expect the scores to separately cluster by population (e.g. Nubians compared to Nubians would have small biological distances, and Nubians compared to Egyptians would have high biological distances). However, this was not the case in the current analysis and the Results suggest homogeneity between the two populations."
quote:Originally posted by Pure_Egyptian: and btw i am very aware that i have some african ancestry it would be inevitable for me not to, but as a race i do not think Egyptians were Black African
"Nubian culture is one of the oldest and richest in Africa and dates back before Egyptian civilisation although this later overtook it."
"The original environment of the Nubian is to be on the shore of the Nile. It is the source of life itself - but also our myths and traditions."
"Tens of thousands of Nubians were moved from their ancestral homeland along the Nile - in southern Egypt and northern Sudan - because of the dam."
"In the desert, Nubians are kept away from all their intangible heritage connected to the Nile. The living culture will disappear soon if they do not go back home."
"Evidence of the oldest recognizable monarchy in human history, preceding the rise of the earliest Egyptian kings by several generations, has been discovered in artifacts from ancient Nubia in Africa."
“The new findings suggest that the ancient Nubians may have reached this stage of political development as long ago as 3300 B.C., several generations before the earliest documented Egyptian king.”
“Dr. Williams said there were accounts in later Egyptian writings of the Egyptians attacking Ta-Seti some time around 3000 B.C. This is just about the time, according to the archaeological record, when a major cultural transformation began in that part of Nubia. Little is known of what was happening in this region between 3000 B.C. and 2300 B.C. when inhabitants were unquestionably governed by separate chiefdoms.”
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Pure_Egyptian - At this point I will pause again, so that you may have an opportunity to prove to the world, that you are not just another lying ragheaded Turk or Turk mutt.
In the last post, I mentioned the Soldiers in RED uniforms above.
Please, save your Albino Mongrel Soul: TELL the World, who those Soldiers are, and what is their relationship to YOU!!!!Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Cool man I took them off, like I said I don't think you look like a Turk, or that you are not Egyptian.
In my opinion I think it would be best to say Egypt was Tropically adapted as opposed to Mixed, Mediteranain or Black. Mixed means that the Egyptians were not Native to the Nile Valley, Mediterannain ignores the Upper Egyptians(If any thing Lower Egypt was Med, and Upper Egypt was Black) and Black Ignores Lower Egyptian like you who are dark but not black.
I think tropically adapted fits better.
Are you the real jari, or some impostor jari?
Anyway,
Wadi Kubbaniya (ca. 17,000–15,000 B.C.)
In Egypt, the earliest evidence of humans can be recognized only from tools found scattered over an ancient surface, sometimes with hearths nearby. In Wadi Kubbaniya, a dried-up streambed cutting through the Western Desert to the floodplain northwest of Aswan in Upper Egypt, some interesting sites of the kind described above have been recorded. A cluster of Late Paleolithic camps was located in two different topographic zones: on the tops of dunes and the floor of the wadi (streambed) where it enters the valley. Although no signs of houses were found, diverse and sophisticated stone implements for hunting, fishing, and collecting and processing plants were discovered around hearths. Most tools were bladelets made from a local stone called chert that is widely used in tool fabrication. The bones of wild cattle, hartebeest, many types of fish and birds, as well as the occasional hippopotamus have been identified in the occupation layers. Charred remains of plants that the inhabitants consumed, especially tubers, have also been found.
It appears from the zoological and botanical remains at the various sites in this wadi that the two environmental zones were exploited at different times. We know that the dune sites were occupied when the Nile River flooded the wadi because large numbers of fish and migratory bird bones were found at this location. When the water receded, people then moved down onto the silt left behind on the wadi floor and the floodplain, probably following large animals that looked for water there in the dry season. Paleolithic peoples lived at Wadi Kubbaniya for about 2,000 years, exploiting the different environments as the seasons changed. Other ancient camps have been discovered along the Nile from Sudan to the Mediterranean, yielding similar tools and food remains. These sites demonstrate that the early inhabitants of the Nile valley and its nearby deserts had learned how to exploit local environments, developing economic strategies that were maintained in later cultural traditions of pharaonic Egypt.
quote:Originally posted by Pure_Egyptian: and btw i am very aware that i have some african ancestry it would be inevitable for me not to, but as a race i do not think Egyptians were Black African
Origins of dental crowding and malocclusions: an anthropological perspective.
Rose JC, Roblee RD.
Compend Contin Educ Dent. 2009 Jun;30(5):292-300.
The study of ancient Egyptian skeletons from Amarna, Egypt reveals extensive tooth wear but very little dental crowding, unlike in modern Americans. In the early 20th century, Percy Raymond Begg focused his research on extreme tooth wear coincident with traditional diets to justify teeth removal during orthodontic treatment. Anthropologists studying skeletons that were excavated along the Nile Valley in Egypt and the Sudan have demonstrated reductions in tooth size and changes in the face, including decreased robustness associated with the development of agriculture, but without any increase in the frequency of dental crowding and malocclusion. For thousands of years, facial and dental reduction stayed in step, more or less. These analyses suggest it was not the reduction in tooth wear that increased crowding and malocclusion, but rather the tremendous reduction in the forces of mastication, which produced this extreme tooth wear and the subsequent reduced jaw involvement. Thus, as modern food preparation techniques spread throughout the world during the 19th century, so did dental crowding. This research provides support for the development of orthodontic therapies that increase jaw dimensions rather than the use of tooth removal to relieve crowding.
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Gigantic Im not denying he is Egyptian bro. I already said I believe Egyptians were lighter in the North Darker in the south to skeptic which is what most folks believe. My only disagreement is his claim that Black Egyptians were slaves, the Black Egyptians are his blood brothers wether he likes it or not and many black Egyptians were Royalty and came from the South.
Im not telling him his history...HIS ANCESTOR are telling him his history...PERIOD!!
I have no problem with light Egyptians in A. Egypt I have a problem when folks say the Black Egyptians were slaves, that is cruel and mean to say to people who were an important part of Pharonic Egypt.
This is the root of ancient Egypt. Not somewhere in "lala land"! LOL
Nubia's Oldest House?
Some of the most important evidence of early man in Nubia was discovered recently by an expedition of the Royal Ontario Museum, Toronto, under the direction of Dr. Kryzstof Grzymski, on the east bank of the Nile, about 70 miles (116 km) south of Dongola, Sudan. During the early 1990's, this team discovered several sites containing hundreds of Paleolithic hand axes. At one site, however, the team identified an apparent stone tool workshop, where thousands of sandstone hand axes and flakes lay on the ground around a row of large stones set in a line, suggesting the remains of a shelter. This seems to be the earliest "habitation" site yet discovered in the Nile Valley and may be up to 70,000 years old.
What the Nubian environment was like throughout these distant times, we cannot know with certainty, but it must have changed many times. For many thousands of years it was probably far different than what it is today. Between about 50,000 to 25,000 years ago, the hand axe gradually disappeared and was replaced with numerous distinctive chipped stone industries that varied from region to region, suggesting the presence in Nubia of many different peoples or tribal groups dwelling in close proximity to each other. When we first encounter skeletal remains in Nubia, they are those of modern man: homo sapiens.
Nubia's Oldest Battle?
From about 25,000 to 8,000 years ago, the environment gradually evolved to its present state. From this phase several very early settlement sites have been identified at the Second Cataract, near the Egypt-Sudan border. These appear to have been used seasonally by people leading a semi-nomadic existence. The people hunted, fished, and ground wild grain. The first cemeteries also appear, suggesting that people may have been living at least partly sedentary lives. One cemetery site at Jebel Sahaba, near Wadi Halfa, Sudan, contained a number of bodies that had suffered violent deaths and were buried in a mass grave. This suggests that people, even 10,000 years ago, had begun to compete with each other for resources and were willing to kill each other to control them.
Three scale models—of the Mesolithic hut of el-Barga (7500 B.C.), the proto-urban agglomeration of the Pre-Kerma (3000 B.C.) and the ancient city of Kerma (2500-1500 B.C.)—give a glimpse of the world of the living. They show the evolution of settlements for each of the key periods in Nubian history. Huts indicate the birth of a sedentary way of life, the agglomeration confirms the settling of populations on a territory and the capital of the Kingdom of Kerma marks the culmination of the complexification of Nubian architecture with its ever more monumental constructions. The three models were created in Switzerland by Hugo Lienhard and were installed in the museum in January 2009.
quote:Originally posted by Gigantic: Jari, that is a blatant disrespect for you to try and tell a genuine Egyptian their history. I don't get it with you afrocentrists. Who are you to dictate to other people their heritage?
This crazy clown forgets that it's usually whites who are trying to tell anyone else on the planet what their history is like. ETC....
Eurocentric rubbish at it's best, I can give you that!
Afrocentrism is to reconstruct black history. Which was twisted by biased whites.
While Eurocentrisms was/ is to manifest and boost their I am better than others (superiority).
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Mike, call me as you like, i'm not going to waste my time with your slurs, I don't care about Nubia which you seem to focus your claims on. Nubia was just another follower of the greatest country on Earth... Egypt. By the way i am not albino... i've got tan skin like most Egyptians (Ancient and Modern), So mike you seem to know more about my family then i do myself, please elaborate how my family ended up from being Fellaheen (the true descendants of AE) to turks? Especially since the turks had a ranking system from Pasha to Fellaheen (the indigeonous people of Egypt)
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And please stop giving me articles made by African American culture cause i honestly could not give a ****, i want an educated PHD Egyptologist article, that is Egyptian himself. They already proved in DNA that Egyptians on the street are the protege of the Egyptians who built the pyramids.. and Mike you posted pics of the people who have been in the Land of Egypt for millenia so what..
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Pure_Egyptian - You just admitted that you are NOT Egyptian.
Pure_Egyptian Quote: please elaborate how my family ended up from being Fellaheen (the true descendants of AE) to turks?
Fellah is a peasant, farmer or agricultural laborer in the Middle East. The word derives from the Arabic word for ploughman or tiller. During the time of the spread of Islam, it was used to distinguish between Arab settlers who were usually nomadic (i.e., bedouin), and the indigenous rural population (i.e., fellahin) of the conquered territories, such as the Egyptians, the Syriacs of the Levant and the Cypriots.
Fellahin was the term used throughout the Middle East in the Ottoman period and later to refer to villagers and farmers. Nur Masalha translates it as "peasants". They were distinguished from the effendi, or, landowning class, although the fellahin in this region might be tenant farmers, smallholders, or live in a village that owned the land communally. Others applied the term fellahin only to landless workers. The term fellahin applied to Christian, Druze and Muslim villagers. The term fellah was applied to people from several regions in the Middle East, including those of Egypt and Cyprus.
"Fille Fellahin." A Victorian-era postcard of a young Fellahin girl of Egypt.
Comprising 60% of the Egyptian population, the fellahin lead humble lives and continue to live in mud-brick houses like their ancient ancestors. Their percentage was much higher in the early 20th century, before the large influx of Egyptian fellahin into urban towns and cities. In 1927, anthropologist Winifred Blackman, author of The Fellahin of Upper Egypt, conducted ethnographic research on the life of Upper Egyptian farmers and concluded that there were observable continuities between the cultural and religious beliefs and practices of the fellahin and those of ancient Egyptians
Pure_Egyptian - Do you look like the girl above?
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Although a bulk of the fellaheen have ancient Egyptian ancestry, many of them have intermingled with other groups that have come into Egypt from foreign invasion and immigration. During the Islamic era tracts of land were given to bedouin tribes in the Delta to Arabize the Egyptians. Since the 1700's there has been a population explousion in the Delta so Egyptians from the Delta are overepresented in modern Egypt.
I am skeptical that our poster is either fellaheen or Egyptian but I will give them the benefit of the doubt.
My sources are the following:
Egypt Before the Pharoahs by Alan K Bowman(in this book Bowman shows that much of modern Egyptian population stayed relatively low. The modern Egyptian population started growing expodentially in the 1700. The population growth was conetrated in the Delta where historically foreign populations have settled.)
The Cambridge History of Egypt, Vol. 1: Islamic Egypt, 640-1517 (Volume 1) [Hardcover] Carl F. Petry (Editor) ( documents the settlement of Bedouin tribes in the Delta regions)
Sons of Ishmael by G. W. Murray (Hardcover - Jun 1935)( documents that Berber tribes,Bedouins and others settled amongst the Fellaheen)
The following casts doubt upon the claim that modern Egyptians are pure desendants of the ancient Egyptians. No doubt the blood of the ancients flows through the modern Egyptians but its doubtful that modern Egyptians perserve the pristine phenotype of the ancient Egyptians. The true represenatives of the ancient Egyptians are the populations from Luxor into Aswan. The populations of Aswan and Luxor have been subject to very little foreign influx. The incursions of foreign populations in extreme southern Egypt has fewer in number than the northern Delta.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Mike , please give me some realistic reasons for the pictures or should i say murals im about to show you...
Which one is the Egyptian, which one is the nubian? in these two photos... seems the TAN people are the True Egyptians, the rest Egypts enemy...
Tell me about this photo too, why are the Nubians the sopposedly race of the Egyptians, being tied down and under Egyptian control.. looks like Black Africans were made for being slaves only.
And these are your people, they dont look very egyptian to me, looks as if they traded in building pyramids for Dancing, and mud huts
posted
"I am skeptical that our poster is either fellaheen or Egyptian but I will give them the benefit of the doubt."
I have already proved to jari i am egyptian, ask him he's already seen photos of my family..
Posts: 61 | From: Egyptian | Registered: Aug 2010
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Posting pictures means very little. Pictures can be fabricated and photoshopped. Even if you are Egyptian it does not prove that the ancient Egyptians shared your phenotype. I already refuted your notion of pure Delta fellaheen. I included academic sources on the influx of foreigners into the Delta from pharoanic to post pharoanic eras.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Here are the villages my family are from, Manoufia - a governate i know but i dont feel like finding the exact area. Beheira - Mahmudiya Sohag, from my grandmother.
Posts: 61 | From: Egyptian | Registered: Aug 2010
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Ok, even then im upper egypt , and AE blood is in me thats all i want to prove, i just want to prove im not a turk/ or arab, and if i was arab i would know what tribe i came from
Posts: 61 | From: Egyptian | Registered: Aug 2010
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Egyptians(Modern and Ancient) with the exception of the Black Nubians/people of Kemit(southern lower 1/4 of Egypt and the Sudan) conquered by the Arabs(Middle Eastern), are Semitic White like the closely related Jews(Middle Eastern), as proven by both DNA tests(haplo groups) on mummies and modern Egyptians(Semitic White) and Nubian Egyptians(Black) as well as skeletal points and measurements(mainly the skull).
The Black Nubians made pacts with the Arabs to be Pharoahs to avoid total annhilation.For about a hundred years, there were Black Nubian Egyptian Dynasties.The Arabs gave Egypt(Arabic-since 5,000 B.C.) its name.
The different skin colors of the Egyptians on walls demonstrates the differences in the two ethinicities. King TUT has many facial features of an ethnic mix(half Arab Semitic White/half Nubian Black),often represented anywhere from a golden brown color to a Black color, like Anwar Sadat(father- Egyptian Arab Semitic White-mother-Black Sudanese) denied this until shortly before his death.
Many of the people on wall art are, in fact, Black Nubian Egyptian slaves(also some free) as well as peoples of other ethnic backgrounds(small sampling of the Arabs(Semitic Whites) and other peoples(Blacks and other ethinicities and admixtures):
Posts: 61 | From: Egyptian | Registered: Aug 2010
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Pure Egyptian,I don't believe you are a Turk but its possible you have some foreign ancestry. Your anger towards African Americans is misguided because it was the Europeans who wrote that modern Egyptians were inferior people compaired to their ancestors. The Europeans really control the information on ancient Egypt not African Americans.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Pure Egyptian, could you properly cite your information? Ancient Egyptians were neither white nor semitic. Arabs did not come to Egypt untill around 640 AD under Amr Ibn Alas. All genetic sampling has been done on modern Egyptians and not the ancient remains. No mummies have ever been tests for their racial or geographic origin. If you have evidenceto the contrary then please present it.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Someone also please answer for me.... How is it that All of North Africa is Caucasian (Berber - semetic white) but egypt is claimed not to be.. doesnt make sense... seems ironic considering egypt is closer to the middle east and even has a landbridge connecting it to the middle east
Posts: 61 | From: Egyptian | Registered: Aug 2010
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Berbers are not Semitic speakers either nor are all Berbers caucasoid. Some like the Tuareg are dark skinned. You do realize the ancient Egyptians distinguished themselves from ''white'' Libyans which probably represent the modern white skinned Berber groups.
Pure Egyptian, can you prove the modern populations of the so-called Middle east existed in antiquity? Do you believe the modern Middle Eastern population has remained homogenous and pristine?
Can you prove that white skinned populations in northern Africa are indigenous?
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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So if mummies have never been tested how is it known they are what we would call black? Its already known Egyptians have more african blood nowadays then back then do to the arabs bringing slaves through the land bridge... meaning Egyptians nowadays are essentially darker then those of the past
Posts: 61 | From: Egyptian | Registered: Aug 2010
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I believe for the most part the people of the middle east are the people of the past, the palestinians being related to Canaan and phillistines, Syrians/Iraq to Assyria, and lebanon to the Phonecions, and so forth.
Posts: 61 | From: Egyptian | Registered: Aug 2010
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stop calling me Pure egyptian, i only used the name to bother the Afro centrists, please call me Youssef. And Ausar, the Egyptians ALSO drew themselves differently from the Nubians. Egyptians are Egyptians. i think its possible that Egyptians are there own people, you can tell most Egyptians from the rest of the world, so could it be possible that Egyptians are their own race? Thats how it is thats how itll end
Posts: 61 | From: Egyptian | Registered: Aug 2010
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Where is your evidence that Arabs brought slaves in Egypt? Where is your evidence that these slave populations darkened the modern population? Wasn't your intial statement that modern Egyptians retain the phenotype of the ancients? This sounds a little suspect a modern Egypt would attribute the dark skin of modern Egyptians to slaves. I could easily argue that the majority of slaves imported into Egypt were white and therefore lightened the modern Egyptian population.
The studies on mummies are sparce. The one study is a dental and cranimetric study. The study was of the 18th dyansty.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Youssef, the burden of proof is upon you to prove the modern Egyptians are pure examples of the ancient Egyptians. I am all for discourse but it has to have some archaeological or anthropological validity.
I find it interesting that your view of ancient Egypt has a racialist and western tinge.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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and Ausar your incorrect, the arabs have been in contact with AE waaaay b4 the 600's. Do to trading, and Egypt was conquered by "People of the desert" seems like another name for Arabs. And Some pharoahs have come from that time period
Posts: 61 | From: Egyptian | Registered: Aug 2010
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Ausar, if Modern Egyptians are not the closest people related to the AE who else are? I'm not all about race, i know that there are all types of ethnicities in AE and Modern Egypt.
Posts: 61 | From: Egyptian | Registered: Aug 2010
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I am Tan and have wavy/curly black hair, hmm matter a fact who else in that area is depicted as tan and black hair... seems the AE. I have family that are from caramel to almost nubian skin tone, doesnt mean jack. I just want to prove to these afrocentrists that Modern Egyptians are the closest to AEgyptians, and that a majority are not turks or arabs atleast not pure turks or arabs.
Posts: 61 | From: Egyptian | Registered: Aug 2010
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Youssef,the closest desendants of the ancient Egyptians has not been established. However, we can piece together the origins of ancient Egyptian civlization based upon archaeological remains. Definite cultural ties exist between the lower socioeconomic and rural groups in modern Egypt. The traditions of the rural Egyptians show patterns which may be traced back to the ancient Egyptians. However, we cannot say definately that every modern Egyptian are desendants of the modern Egyptians.
Again,Youssef, the burden of proof is on you.
The ancient Egyptians may have have contact with the ancestors of modern Arabic populations but there is little evidence they settled in Egypt in large numbers untill 640 AD.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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