quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: The Amarna mummies are closer to the Southern African (average MLI 326.94), African Great Lakes (average MLI 323.76), and Tropical West African (average MLI 83.74) regions—not the Horners.
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It is a myth that egyptians mainly looked like Horners. Eurocentrics created this myth because many whites share facial features associated with some Horners.
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Clyde in your opinion what are the Southern African in particular, cultural ties to ancient Egypt?
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: it is clear from the research of Diop that after the fall of ancient Egypt the Egyptians migrated westward into West and Central-East Africa, not Ethiopia and Somalia which were already heavily occupied when Egypt fell into decline.
^^^ Here you didn't even mention Southern Africa. The statement also come across as somewhat contradicting the thread title. here you say it's not a myth, Egyptians migrated including to Central East Africa. this means perhaps you intended a thread title more like:
The Greatest Myth: Africans of The Horn represent the ancient Egyptians.
One were to believe the DNATribes report add N. Africans as well:
The Greatest Myth: North Africans or Africans of The Horn represent the ancient Egyptians.
>>>what is the evidence thatafter the fall of ancient Egypt the Egyptians migrated westward into West and Central-East Africa to a degree more so than those who stayed in Egypt? Also where's the Egyptian style architectural know-how manifesting itself in West Africa?
You people on this forum who know nothing of West Africa and its architecture crack me up with your silly conjecture based off your internet searches and imaginations.
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: >>>what is the evidence thatafter the fall of ancient Egypt the Egyptians migrated westward into West and Central-East Africa to a degree more so than those who stayed in Egypt? Also where's the Egyptian style architectural know-how manifesting itself in West Africa?
Egypt was a Pan-African civilization. It included many west African ethnic groups. This view is supported by placenames and Egyptian traditions. Placenames and history provide the evidence the Egyptians migated westward and into Central-east africa.
Placenames and cultural traditions
Egypt was a cosmopolitan area inhabited by diverse people who move up the Nile from the south to found the First Dynasty. Since the people of Dynastic Egypt originated in the Sahara and moved from south to north . The archaeological evidence makes it clear that no one originated in Egypt.
In Precolonial Black Africa, Diop used ethnonyms to chart the migrations of African people in West Africa. And in The African Origin of Civilization, Diop used analyses acculturaliste or typological analysis to study the origin and spread of African cultural features from the Nile Valley to West Africa through his examination of toponyms (Diop 1974, 182-183). In the Cultural Unity of Black Africa, Diop discussed the common totems and religious terms many African ethnic groups share (Diop 1978, 124).
Diop (1981) provides the methodology to study African migrations.. He explains how to use linguistics, ethnonyms and toponyms to study African migrations. In this article he illustrates how Senegalese people originated in the Nubian Hills and migrated Westward into the senegambian region.. Some of the clan names used to support this research include:
Nuer Fulani Kao ka Bari Bari Jallogh Jallo
''''' Tukulor Kan Kan Ci Sy Wan Wan
There are three parts to Diop’s method. You begin with identifying a linguistic relationship between the target groups. Secondly, you find sound equivalent ethnonyms, e.g., mati (Senegal)---> Maat (ancient Egyptian) and Aatou (Senegal)-->Alum (ancient Egyptian). And Egyptian Anw =Osiris written with a pillar compares favorably to Wolof enw (yenw)=carry on the head: (k)enw = pillar. The third part of the method is the use of ethnic data.
This method advocated by Diop was used by Wally. He first presented the linguistic evidence and then he confirmed his finding by comparing West African ethnonyms to ancient Egyptian terms.
We know that in African societies great ancestors are made into “gods”. This is interesting because Wally has discovered a number of African ethnonyms among the gods of Egyptian nomes.
[quote]
Originally posted by Wally:
Ethnic names in the Mdu Ntr
Tutsi Tutsi "the assembled gods"; "all of them (gods)"
Akan Akan - the name of a god Akaniu - a class of gods like Osiris
Fante Fante - "he of the nose" - a name of Thoth - one of the 42 judges in the Hall of Osiris ("Shante" in modern Egyptian)
Hausa Hosa - a singing god
Yoruba Ourbaiu - great of souls, a title of gods or kings Ouruba - Great God of soul
The permutations of names of such folks as the Wolof or the Fulani are so many, that it requires the effort of those who speak the language, to properly interpret the names -ie, Djoloff, Oulof, etc. and then look for their meanings in Budge's dictionary...
The ethnic names from egyptian including Fante and Tutsi show Egyptians made their way into West and Central-East Africa.
History of Migration Out of Egypt
History shows that the majority of Egyptians migrated out of Egypt.Since the Assyrians first conquered the Egyptians there has been a slow replacement of ancient Egyptians by Middle Eastern and Western European peoples.
Beginning with the Assyrian defeat of the Twenty-Fifth Dynasty large number of nomadic people from the Middle East began to migrate into Egypt. These people began to take over many Egyptian settlements, while other Egyptians fled to Nubia and Kush to avoid non-Egyptian rule.
Other ancient Egyptian caused political and military conflicts that led many Egyptians to migrate out of Egypt into Nubia and Kush. Herodotus’ mentions the mutiny of Psamtik I’s frontier garrison at Elephantine—these deerters moved into Kush. Moreover, the archaizing trend in Kush among the post Twenty-Fifth Dynasty Kings testfy to a possible large migration of Egyptians into Kush.
In 343 BC Nectanebos II, fled to Upper Egypt. Later according to the Natasen period stela we evidence of other Egyptians migrating into Kush from Egypt (Torok, 1997, p.391).
Between the 260’s-270’s BC Upper Egyptian Nationalists were fighting the Ptolemy (Greek) rulers of Egypt. The rebellion was put down by Ptolemy II. This military action led to Egyptians migrating out of Egypt into Kush (Torok, pp.395-396). These rebellions continued in Egypt into the 2nd Century BC (Torok, p.426).
Between Ptolomy II and Ptolemy V, the Greeks began to settle Egypt. This was especially true in the 150’sBC and led to many Egyptians migrating back into Egypt.
By the time the Romans entered Egypt, many Egyptians had already left Egypt and settled. Roman politics also forced many Egyptians to migrate into Kush. This was compounded by the introduction of the Pax Agusta policy of the Romans which sought the establishment of Roman hegemony within territories under Roman rule (Torok, 454-456). This led to the emigration of many Romans into Egypt.
The Kush was a multi-ethnic society. It included speakers of many languages within the empire. During most of Kushite history the elites used Egyptian for record keeping since it was recognized as a neutral language.
As more and more Egyptians, led by Egyptian nationalists, fled to Kush as it became under foreign dominantion the Egyptians formed a large minority in the Empire. Because of Egyptian migrations to Kush, by the rule of the Meroitic Queen Shanakdakheto, we find the Egyptian language abandoned as a medium of exchange in official records, and the Meroitic script takes its place.
By the rise of Greeks in Egypt, the cultural ideology , like the people were changing. This is supported by the transition from Demotic writing (7th 5th Centuries BC) to Coptic (4th BC-AD 1400). The Coptic people are the best evidence for the change in the Egyptian population.
The Kushites were at war with the Noba (Nubians)invanding the empire from the east. This led most Egyptians to migrate west and Southward from the Meroitic Empire.
Egypt was a rich Confederation of African ethnic groups who lived in their own nomes. The richness of Egypt provided the state and religious orders the wealth to finance massive public works.
Once the Egyptians migrated out of Egypt they would have been relatively poor. The lack of wealth would have prevented them from financing Egyptian style masssive architectural works once they established new communities and homes in West and Central-East Africa.
In addition, in many of the new areas settled by the egyptian migrants, the materials to build egyptian style public works were not available.
posted
^^^^ I don't see any migrations documented to West Africa. Greeks and Romans were always minorities in Egypt. Where is the documentation for large masses, the majority of the Egyptian population migrating out of Egypt? The stuff you mention above regards Kush of which part of it was already in Egypt. That is next door. I am aware of no documentation or hard evidence of large numbers of Egyptians migrating anywhere beyond neighboring states if at all, much less as far as West Africa, that is very far fetched. Above you seem to be referring to things like troops movements during wars and unrest not permanent migrations of large numbers of people.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
By the time the Romans entered Egypt, many Egyptians had already left Egypt and settled. Roman politics also forced many Egyptians to migrate into Kush. This was compounded by the introduction of the Pax Agusta policy of the Romans which sought the establishment of Roman hegemony within territories under Roman rule (Torok, 454-456). This led to the emigration of many Romans into Egypt.
I read the passage in Torok's Kingdom of Kush pp 454-456. There is nothing there that says there was mass migration out of Egypt into Kush. But Kush is hardly a trip. Where is any evidence of a migration to somewhere other than a next door neighbor of Egypt? And how could this be called Egypt being a pan African civilizations, these are late periods when Egypt had fallen for good and was being ruled by foreigners?
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: ^^^^ I don't see any migrations documented to West Africa. Greeks and Romans were always minorities in Egypt. Where is the documentation for large masses, the majority of the Egyptian population migrating out of Egypt? The stuff you mention above regards Kush of which part of it was already in Egypt. That is next door. I am aware of no documentation or hard evidence of large numbers of Egyptians migrating anywhere beyond neighboring states if at all, much less as far as West Africa, that is very far fetched. Above you seem to be referring to things like troops movements during wars and unrest not permanent migrations of large numbers of people.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
By the time the Romans entered Egypt, many Egyptians had already left Egypt and settled. Roman politics also forced many Egyptians to migrate into Kush. This was compounded by the introduction of the Pax Agusta policy of the Romans which sought the establishment of Roman hegemony within territories under Roman rule (Torok, 454-456). This led to the emigration of many Romans into Egypt.
I read the passage in Torok's Kingdom of Kush pp 454-456. There is nothing there that says there was mass migration out of Egypt into Kush. But Kush is hardly a trip. Where is any evidence of a migration to somewhere other than a next door neighbor of Egypt? And how could this be called Egypt being a pan African civilizations, these are late periods when Egypt had fallen for good and was being ruled by foreigners?
LOL. You guys at liarness inc.,asked a question and when it was answered you can't handle the truth.
LOL. I will not answer any more questions you guys ask in this thread because you ask questions as a distraction.
Hahaha....you asked this question because you thought there was not an answer.I illustrated there was an answer and you feel stupid because the five members of your team had failed to recognize a simple answer existed.
You can trick the novices on this site because they have failed to study J.A. Rogers, DuBois and Diop.
I have taught research for years. I have taught my students that a good hypothesis is self-generating.
The Afrocentric study of ancient history (ASAH) is based on four hypotheses confirmed by 200 years of research.
The paradigms for ASAH predicted four hypotheses that were unknown at the time the "Ancient Model" of history was developed, to guide the development of scientific knowledge for the africalogical study of early history. These propositions based on the "Ancient Model" are:
(1) If Blacks founded civilization in Asia and Africa , they may have influenced civilization in the Americas.
(2) If Blacks founded civilization in West Asia, Africa and Europe, archaeological data will support their earlier presence in these regions of the world.
(3) If Blacks founded the first civilizations, they also invented writing and other elements of social and scientific technology.
(4) If Blacks founded civilization they probably founded civilization throughout Asia and Europe.
Given the two empirical paradigms and four predicted hypothesse related to the "Ancient Model", africalogical ancient history research increase the precision of the application of afrocentric research methods and scope of research in this area . These four hypotheses generated additional hypotheses which have been confirmed:
Hypothesis 1: If Egypt was founded by Africans linguistic evidence will support this relationship (Confirmed).
H2.If Egypt was founded by Africans genetic evidence will support this relationship (Confirmed).
H2a.If Egypt was founded by Africans genetic evidence will connect the ancient Egyptians to west Africans because people from the Horn began to migrate into Egypt and the Sudan during the Roman period, this relationship (Confirmed).
H2b.If Egypt was founded by Africans genetic evidence will connect the ancient Egyptians to central-southern Africans because people from the Horn began to migrate into Egypt and the Sudan during the Roman period, this relationship (Confirmed).
H2c.If Egypt was founded by Africans genetic evidence will connect the ancient Egyptians to east Africans because people from the Horn began to migrate into Egypt and the Sudan during the Roman period, this relationship (Confirmed).
H3.If Egypt was founded by Africans who migrated into West Africa toponymic and linguistic evidence will support this relationship (Confirmed).
H4.If Africans founded civilizations in Eurasia linguistic evidence will support this relationship (Confirmed).
H5.If Africans founded civilizations in Eurasia genetic evidence will support this relationship (Confirmed).
H6.If Africans founded civilizations in the Americas linguistic evidence will support this relationship (Confirmed).
H7.If Africans founded civilizations in the Americas genetic evidence will support this relationship (Confirmed).
H8. Genetic evidence will indicate that White skinned Africans entered North Africa from Eurasia (Confirmed).
H8a.Genetic evidence will indicate that German speaking White skinned Africans entered North Africa from Eurasia (Confirmed).
H8b.Linguistic evidence will indicate that Germanic speaking White skinned Africans entered North Africa from Eurasia (Confirmed).
H9.Genetic evidence will indicate that original Western Europeans were Africans (Confirmed).
H9a.Genetic evidence will indicate that contemporary Europeans are not related to ancient original Western Europeans(Confirmed).
H9b.Linguistic evidence will indicate that contemporary Europeans are not related to ancient original Western Europeans(Confirmed).
This is just a few of the hypotheses one can generate based on the four paradigms associated with ASAH.
This is why Mike, Ironlion, and I can write about Blacks in Eurasia, or publish articles in peer reviewed journals on population genetics that confirm the 4 paradigms of ASAH.
We can do this because well established hypotheses are self-generating and our research is based on the shoulders of are greatest social scientists: J.A. Rogers, DuBois and Diop.
The novices here can only write on topics they think the Eurocentric academe will accept. This limits there scope and research, because Europeans have made it their goal to deny that Black and African people have an ancient history.
LOL Liarness Inc., can only confuse people who have not studied their history.
Most of the people here at ES interpret Afrocentrism based on what Europeans have wrote about Afrocentrism—instead of reading the research of the founders of this field of study J.A. Rogers, DuBois and Diop.
quote:Originally posted by KoKaKoLa: TO CLOWN WINTERS.... LET THE PWNING BEGIN!
KocaKola when are you going to answer these questions:
1) The Beja are mentioned in Roman sources as entering Egypt during the Roman period--not earlier. Show us Egyptian text mentioning Beja dating earlier than Roman period.
2)How can Beja be related to Egyptian pharoahs when they are not mentioned in Egyptian sources until roman times?
3)Beja in Egypt speak Arabic. Provide linguistic evidence linking the Beja and Egyptian.Where are your lexical and grammatical features uniting Beja and Egyptian?
posted
You made references to Lazlo Torok's book, Kingdom of Kush.
But you did not have quotes only page numbers.
You didn't think I would check this out but I did. There is nowhere where Torok says the majority of Egyptians moved to Kush. That's nonsense. He is only describing things like troop movements, not permanent mass migrations and part of Kush was already in Egypt anyway. Are you suggesting that in the Roman period Egypt became primarily Italian?
So far you have not provided any actual quotes from Torok, especially one's suppoting Egyptians migrations to West Africa. I dare you to even find a quote from Diop supporting the claim that thae majority of Egyptians left Egypt.
I'm sorry Clyde but as KoKaKola said "POW". This will have to taken as a loss on your part, my apologies
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posted
^^^^^^Stop posting these pictures of Turks and claiming them to be Beja.
KocaKola when are you going to answer these questions:
1) The Beja are mentioned in Roman sources as entering Egypt during the Roman period--not earlier. Show us Egyptian text mentioning Beja dating earlier than Roman period.
2)How can Beja be related to Egyptian pharoahs when they are not mentioned in Egyptian sources until roman times?
3)Beja in Egypt speak Arabic. Provide linguistic evidence linking the Beja and Egyptian.Where are your lexical and grammatical features uniting Beja and Egyptian?
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-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: ^^^^ I don't see any migrations documented to West Africa. Greeks and Romans were always minorities in Egypt. Where is the documentation for large masses, the majority of the Egyptian population migrating out of Egypt? The stuff you mention above regards Kush of which part of it was already in Egypt. That is next door. I am aware of no documentation or hard evidence of large numbers of Egyptians migrating anywhere beyond neighboring states if at all, much less as far as West Africa, that is very far fetched. Above you seem to be referring to things like troops movements during wars and unrest not permanent migrations of large numbers of people.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
By the time the Romans entered Egypt, many Egyptians had already left Egypt and settled. Roman politics also forced many Egyptians to migrate into Kush. This was compounded by the introduction of the Pax Agusta policy of the Romans which sought the establishment of Roman hegemony within territories under Roman rule (Torok, 454-456). This led to the emigration of many Romans into Egypt.
I read the passage in Torok's Kingdom of Kush pp 454-456. There is nothing there that says there was mass migration out of Egypt into Kush. But Kush is hardly a trip. Where is any evidence of a migration to somewhere other than a next door neighbor of Egypt? And how could this be called Egypt being a pan African civilizations, these are late periods when Egypt had fallen for good and was being ruled by foreigners?
You guys at liarness inc.,asked a question and when it was answered you can't handle the truth.
Hahaha....you ask questions because you think there are no answers.I illustrated there was historical, toponymic and linguistic evidence supporting a migration of Egyptians into Kush, and later West Africa, and now you feel stupid because the five members of Liarness Inc., had failed to recognize a simple answer existed.
You can trick the novices on this site because they have failed to study J.A. Rogers, DuBois and Diop.
LOL. I will not answer any more questions you guys ask in this thread because you ask questions as a distraction.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: ^^^^^^Stop posting these pictures of Turks and claiming them to be Beja.
KocaKola when are you going to answer these questions:
1) The Beja are mentioned in Roman sources as entering Egypt during the Roman period--not earlier. Show us Egyptian text mentioning Beja dating earlier than Roman period.
2)How can Beja be related to Egyptian pharoahs when they are not mentioned in Egyptian sources until roman times?
3)Beja in Egypt speak Arabic. Provide linguistic evidence linking the Beja and Egyptian.Where are your lexical and grammatical features uniting Beja and Egyptian?
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Yawn clown. 1) History did not start with with the Romans. Beja always have lived IN Egypt.
2) Some Egyptian Bejawi clans believe that they are descendants of Maahes Warrior Chiefs of High Priests of Amun at Thebes .
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Priest-Kings Pinedjem I, Psusennes I and Osorkon the Elder and their armies are believed to be the ancestors of Egypt's Western Desert Bejawi. Omdas Sheikh Qamhat Khawr al`allaqi was last remnant of one of Egypt's oldest surviving lineages. His death in 1936 was widely considered the death knell for the Qamhat Bisharin. Egyptologist Heinrich Brugsch traced Qamhat Khawr kiji tribal clans through female lines to the 20th Dynasty Wehem Mesut. Egyptologist Zakaria Goneim traced their ancestress mother to an even earlier dynasty.
3) KocaKola court jester of his Turk (Beja) Royals
If Beja were always in Egypt give us the Egyptians sources
quote:Originally posted by KoKaKoLa: Where do you think the Beja came from? Zimbabwe? Tanzania? To-Bedawiue is one of the closest language to Ancient Egyptian IF not the closest
This page is talking about the Sudanese Beja and "Proto-Egyptians". Crainiometrics show many African groups that are analogous to Proto-Egyptian skeletal remains.
KocaKola If Beja are the closest stop posting these pictures of Turks and claiming them to be Beja,and answer these questions:
1) The Beja are mentioned in Roman sources as entering Egypt during the Roman period--not earlier. Show us Egyptian text mentioning Beja dating earlier than Roman period.
2)How can Beja be related to Egyptian pharoahs when they are not mentioned in Egyptian sources until roman times?
3)Beja in Egypt speak Arabic. Provide linguistic evidence linking the Beja and Egyptian.Where are your lexical and grammatical features uniting Beja and Egyptian since you claim these languages are closely related?
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KocaKola and his friends carrying more Beja Egyptian Royals.
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im not a man. Clown.
quote:1911 – Anatomist Grafton Elliot Smith – “the physical characteristics of the present day Nubian, Beja, Danakil, Galla, and Somali populations are if we leave out of account the alien negro and Semitic traits…are an obvious token of their undoubted kinship with the proto-Egyptians.†. Found on page 75 in The Ancient Egyptians and the Origin of Civilization (London/New York, Harper & Brothers).
KocaKola and his friends carrying more Beja Egyptian Royals.
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im not a man. Clown.
quote:1911 – Anatomist Grafton Elliot Smith – “the physical characteristics of the present day Nubian, Beja, Danakil, Galla, and Somali populations are if we leave out of account the alien negro and Semitic traits…are an obvious token of their undoubted kinship with the proto-Egyptians.†. Found on page 75 in The Ancient Egyptians and the Origin of Civilization (London/New York, Harper & Brothers).
LOL. this quote suggest that the Beja have negro traits yet you claim Turks reprepresent Beja-Egyptian Royalty.
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Kocakola you are really sick. You believe Turks are your leaders. You are sad indeed. You have a classic inferiority complex and worship of Europeans.
KocaKola when are you going to answer these questions:
1) The Beja are mentioned in Roman sources as entering Egypt during the Roman period--not earlier. Show us Egyptian text mentioning Beja dating earlier than Roman period.
2)How can Beja be related to Egyptian pharoahs when they are not mentioned in Egyptian sources until roman times?
3)Beja in Egypt speak Arabic. Provide linguistic evidence linking the Beja and Egyptian.Where are your lexical and grammatical features uniting Beja and Egyptian?
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-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Frank Joseph Yurco Apr 16 1998, 3:00 am show options Newsgroups: sci.archaeology From: fjyu...@midway.uchicago.edu (Frank Joseph Yurco) - Find messages by this author Date: 1998/04/16 Subject: Re: WESTERN(WHITE)CIVILIZATION IS FOUNDED ON A BLACK AFRICAN CIVILIZATION. Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse
Dear Ramira,
The reference to certain pharaohs resembling the Kushite Beja comes from the X-Ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies, by Wente et al (Chicago: University of Chicago, 1980). This observation came from a study of the late Dynasty XVII royal mummies, particularly Seqenenre Ta'aa's mummy. If you look at this mummy, he has tightly curled hair, and along with the other royals of late Dynasty XVIII-Early Dynasty XVIII, they show marked prognatism in the upper jaw, with many exhibiting a bad case of "buck teeth". This, plus the occurence of Beja names in the Dynasty XVII tombs at El-Qab, led the authors to conclude that there may have been links between the Medja mercenaries so common in the armies of this period, and the royals in this family. However, after Amenhotep I, the male line died out, and Thutmose I brought new blood into the old royal line. So, the comment about the resemblance of the royals to the Medja applies only to the late Dynasty XVII and early Dynasty XVIII rulers starting with Tety-sheri and Senakhtenre of Dynasty XVII.
So, this is not a false story, but is based upopn the observation and study of the mummies of this group of royals.
posted
KocaKola when are you going to answer these questions:
1) The Beja are mentioned in Roman sources as entering Egypt during the Roman period--not earlier. Show us Egyptian text mentioning Beja dating earlier than Roman period.
2)How can Beja be related to Egyptian pharoahs when they are not mentioned in Egyptian sources until roman times?
3)Beja in Egypt speak Arabic. Provide linguistic evidence linking the Beja and Egyptian.Where are your lexical and grammatical features uniting Beja and Egyptian?
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: KocaKola when are you going to answer these questions:
1) The Beja are mentioned in Roman sources as entering Egypt during the Roman period--not earlier. Show us Egyptian text mentioning Beja dating earlier than Roman period.
2)How can Beja be related to Egyptian pharoahs when they are not mentioned in Egyptian sources until roman times?
3)Beja in Egypt speak Arabic. Provide linguistic evidence linking the Beja and Egyptian.Where are your lexical and grammatical features uniting Beja and Egyptian?
Clyde, who on this planet other than you believes that Mande is more related to ancient Egyptian language than Northern Cushitic (aka Beja)
posted
KocaKola when are you going to answer these questions:
1) The Beja are mentioned in Roman sources as entering Egypt during the Roman period--not earlier. Show us Egyptian text mentioning Beja dating earlier than Roman period.
2)How can Beja be related to Egyptian pharoahs when they are not mentioned in Egyptian sources until roman times?
3)Beja in Egypt speak Arabic. Provide linguistic evidence linking the Beja and Egyptian.Where are your lexical and grammatical features uniting Beja and Egyptian?
posted
KokaKola, read this it refutes Clyde's claim that Mande is closer to Egyptian than Beja, it show the grammatical links between Beja and Egyptian
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: KokaKola, read this it refutes Clyde's claim that Mande is closer to Egyptian than Beja, it show the grammatical links between Beja and Egyptian
LOL. This does not support KocaKola. It says exactly what I said originally the Beja are first mentined in Roman documents and they lived West of the Nile (see pg.31). How could Beja have been Egyptians when they are mentioned as raiding Egypt--not native Egyptians.
It also points out that Beja has lost many elements associated with Afro-Asiatic.
posted
KocaKola when are you going to answer these questions:
1) The Beja are mentioned in Roman sources as entering Egypt during the Roman period--not earlier. Show us Egyptian text mentioning Beja dating earlier than Roman period.
2)How can Beja be related to Egyptian pharoahs when they are not mentioned in Egyptian sources until roman times?
3)Beja in Egypt speak Arabic. Provide linguistic evidence linking the Beja and Egyptian.Where are your lexical and grammatical features uniting Beja and Egyptian?
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: KokaKola, read this it refutes Clown's claim that Mande is closer to Egyptian than Beja, it show the grammatical links between Beja and Egyptian
LOL. This does not support KocaKola. It says exactly what I said originally the Beja are first mentined in Roman documents and they lived West of the Nile (see pg.31). How could Beja have been Egyptians when they are mentioned as raiding Egypt--not native Egyptians.
It also points out that Beja has lost many elements associated with Afro-Asiatic.
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Clown! Clown!Clown!
For sure.. you're a clown!
Roman = Blemmyes. ok.
Now, clown, before the Roman invaded and occupied Egypt, there were the Greeks. Cleopatra spoke more than 6/7 languages : Greek, Egyptian, Aethioiopan, Hebrew,Aramaic, Arabic,..., And TROGLODYTAE!
it is supposed that TROGLODYTAE was the language SPOKEN by the Beja ABABDA.
The Troglodytae have nothing to do with ancient Egypt. This still does not prove that the ancient Egyptian nation included Beja.
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posted
KocaKola when are you going to answer these questions:
1) The Beja are mentioned in Roman sources as entering Egypt during the Roman period--not earlier. Show us Egyptian text mentioning Beja dating earlier than Roman period.
2)How can Beja be related to Egyptian pharoahs when they are not mentioned in Egyptian sources until roman times?
3)Beja in Egypt speak Arabic. Provide linguistic evidence linking the Beja and Egyptian.Where are your lexical and grammatical features uniting Beja and Egyptian?
posted
Can someone please explain to me the significance of the Beja being in Ancient Egypt?
Posts: 2508 | From: . | Registered: Nov 2011
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posted
Bejas were used as foot soldiers and border guards after they were allowed into Egypt. They were not the Pharaohs, nor were they one of the principal groups of Egypt.
-------------------- Lionz Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
Objectivity aside, I would very much like the "Mountains of the Moon" hypothesis of ancient Egyptian origins to be true. I like the idea of a Central African tribe traveling down the Nile to create one of the ancient world's greatest and most famous civilizations. Fortunately for me, Africans around the Great Lakes were among the closest relatives to the Amarna family if DNATribes can be trusted.
Then there's de Heinzelin saying that the harpoon technology of the Central African people responsible for the Ishango bone moving into Upper Egypt during the Naqada period...
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quote:Originally posted by KoKaKoLa: LMAO at all those Bantus claiming to be the descendants of the Ancient Egyptians...
KocaKola the Bantu spoke Niger-Congo language, a group of languages genetically related to Egyptian. Now why don't you show us how Beja is related to Eyptian.
KocaKola when are you going to answer these questions:
1) The Beja are mentioned in Roman sources as entering Egypt during the Roman period--not earlier. Show us Egyptian text mentioning Beja dating earlier than Roman period.
2)How can Beja be related to Egyptian pharoahs when they are not mentioned in Egyptian sources until roman times?
3)Beja in Egypt speak Arabic. Provide linguistic evidence linking the Beja and Egyptian.Where are your lexical and grammatical features uniting Beja and Egyptian?
2)How can Beja be related to Egyptian pharoahs when they are not mentioned in Egyptian sources until roman times?
what is the in Roman times quote where Beja are mentioned ? thanks
LOL. You need to have more group meetings with the Liarness, Inc team. Its clear you guys don't read what you post. You provide a source for this reality here:
quote:Originally posted by KoKaKoLa: LMAO at all those Bantus claiming to be the descendants of the Ancient Egyptians...
KocaKola the Bantu spoke Niger-Congo language, a group of languages genetically related to Egyptian. Now why don't you show us how Beja is related to Eyptian.
KocaKola when are you going to answer these questions:
1) The Beja are mentioned in Roman sources as entering Egypt during the Roman period--not earlier. Show us Egyptian text mentioning Beja dating earlier than Roman period.
2)How can Beja be related to Egyptian pharoahs when they are not mentioned in Egyptian sources until roman times?
3)Beja in Egypt speak Arabic. Provide linguistic evidence linking the Beja and Egyptian.Where are your lexical and grammatical features uniting Beja and Egyptian?
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How can languages be "GENETICALLY" related? LMAOOOO CLOWN!
"According to C.G. Seligman and A. Paul, the Beja are a modern link to the ancient Egyptians. Sir E.A. Wallis Budge thought that the Beja languages of the Eastern Sudan were the best ones to study in order to learn ancient Egyptian."
Who in the hell is going to learn LINGALA to understand Ancient Egyptian? Child please!
Ancient Egyptian is part of the AFRO ASIATIC LANGUAGE family.
LMAO
Egypt was a Pan-African civilization. It included many west African ethnic groups. This view is supported by placenames and Egyptian traditions. Placenames and history provide the evidence the Egyptians migated westward and into Central-east africa.
Placenames and cultural traditions
Egypt was a cosmopolitan area inhabited by diverse people who move up the Nile from the south to found the First Dynasty. Since the people of Dynastic Egypt originated in the Sahara and moved from south to north . The archaeological evidence makes it clear that no one originated in Egypt.
In Precolonial Black Africa, Diop used ethnonyms to chart the migrations of African people in West Africa. And in The African Origin of Civilization, Diop used analyses acculturaliste or typological analysis to study the origin and spread of African cultural features from the Nile Valley to West Africa through his examination of toponyms (Diop 1974, 182-183). In the Cultural Unity of Black Africa, Diop discussed the common totems and religious terms many African ethnic groups share (Diop 1978, 124).
Diop (1981) provides the methodology to study African migrations.. He explains how to use linguistics, ethnonyms and toponyms to study African migrations. In this article he illustrates how Senegalese people originated in the Nubian Hills and migrated Westward into the senegambian region.. Some of the clan names used to support this research include:
Nuer Fulani Kao ka Bari Bari Jallogh Jallo
''''' Tukulor Kan Kan Ci Sy Wan Wan
There are three parts to Diop’s method. You begin with identifying a linguistic relationship between the target groups. Secondly, you find sound equivalent ethnonyms, e.g., mati (Senegal)---> Maat (ancient Egyptian) and Aatou (Senegal)-->Alum (ancient Egyptian). And Egyptian Anw =Osiris written with a pillar compares favorably to Wolof enw (yenw)=carry on the head: (k)enw = pillar. The third part of the method is the use of ethnic data.
This method advocated by Diop was used by Wally. He first presented the linguistic evidence and then he confirmed his finding by comparing West African ethnonyms to ancient Egyptian terms.
We know that in African societies great ancestors are made into “gods”. This is interesting because Wally has discovered a number of African ethnonyms among the gods of Egyptian nomes.
[quote]
Originally posted by Wally:
Ethnic names in the Mdu Ntr
Tutsi Tutsi "the assembled gods"; "all of them (gods)"
Akan Akan - the name of a god Akaniu - a class of gods like Osiris
Fante Fante - "he of the nose" - a name of Thoth - one of the 42 judges in the Hall of Osiris ("Shante" in modern Egyptian)
Hausa Hosa - a singing god
Yoruba Ourbaiu - great of souls, a title of gods or kings Ouruba - Great God of soul
The permutations of names of such folks as the Wolof or the Fulani are so many, that it requires the effort of those who speak the language, to properly interpret the names -ie, Djoloff, Oulof, etc. and then look for their meanings in Budge's dictionary...
The ethnic names from egyptian including Fante and Tutsi show Egyptians made their way into West and Central-East Africa.
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quote:Originally posted by KoKaKoLa: How can languages be "GENETICALLY" related? LMAOOOO CLOWN!
Comparative and historical linguistics is not based on the comparison of isolated words. This method of research determines relationships based on the number of lexical items and linguistic features shared by two or more languages.
Linguistic research is based on the classification or taxonomy of languages. Linguistic taxonomy is the foundation upon which comparative and historical linguistic methods are based. Linguistic taxonomy serves a number of purposes . First, it is necessary for the identification of language families. Secondly, linguistic taxonomy gives us the material to reconstruct the Proto-language of a people and discover its regular sound correspondences.
There are three major kinds of language classifications: genealogical, topological, and areal. A genealogical classifica-tion groups languages together into language families based on the shared features retained by languages since divergence from the common ancestor or Proto-language. An areal classification groups languages into linguistic areas based on shared features acquired by a process of convergence arising from spatial proximity. A topological classification groups languages together into language types by the similarity in the appearance of the structure of languages without consideration of their historical origin and present, or past geographical distribution.
COMPARATIVE METHOD
The comparative method is used by linguists to determine the relatedness of languages, and to reconstruct earlier language states. The comparative linguist has two major goals (1) trace the history of language families and reconstruct the mother language of each family, and (2) determine the forces which affect language. In general, comparative linguists are interested in determining phonetic laws, analogy/ correspondence and loan words.
The comparative method is useful in the reconstruction of Proto-languages. To reconstruct a Proto-language the linguist must look for patterns of correspondences. Patterns of correspondence is the examination of terms which show uniformity. This uniformity leads to the inference that languages are related since conformity of terms in two or more languages indicate they came from a common ancestor.
There is a genetic relationship between the Black African (BA) and Egyptian languages especially the occlusive bilateral sonorous, the occlusive nasal apico-dental /n/ and /m/ , the apico-alveolar /r/ and the radical
Chief city,village black,burnt
Dravidian cira, ca uru kam
Elamite Salu
Sumerian Sar ur
Manding Sa furu kami,"charcoal'
Nubia sirgi mar
Egyptian Sr mer kemit
Paleo-African *sar *uru *kam
Let’s look at term for man. The proto-form sa: 'man, female, posterity' in Black Africa.
Language
Yoruba so 'produce'
Meroitic s' man
Fonge sunu id.
Bini eso 'someone'
Kikongo sa,se,si 'father'
Swahili (m)zee 'old person'
Egyptian sa 'man'
Manding si,se 'descendant,posterity,family'
Azer se 'individual, person'
Obenga (1978) also illustrated the unity between the verbs 'to come, to be, to arrive':
Language
Egyptian ii, ey Samo, Loma dye
Mbosi yaa Bisa gye
Sidama/Omo wa Wolof nyeu
Caffino wa Peul yah, yade
Yoruba wa Fonge wa
Bini ya Mpongwe bya
Manding ya,dya Swahili (Ku)ya
between t =/= d, highlight the alternation patterns of many Paleo-African consonants including b =/= p, l =/= r ,and
g =/= k.
The Egyptian term for grain is 0 sa #. This corresponds to many African terms for seed,grain:
Malinke se , si
Sumerian se
Egyptian sen 'granary'
Kannanda cigur
Bozo sii
Bambara sii
Daba sisin
Loma sii
Susu sansi
Dime siimu
Egyptian ssr 'corn'
id. ssn 'lotus plant'
id. sm 'herb, plant'
id. isw 'weeds'
As you can see Egyptian is genetically related to West African languages.
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