quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Septimius Severus in Color with Darker Skin than his Syrian Wife...
Yes that was a common tradition in roman art to portray men much darker than women (a tradition also found in many other mediterranean civilization) :
Are you going to say italians were that dark now ? Anyway let's pretend that was his real skin color how is that supporting your case ? Most north africans have that skin color lol
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Reconstruction based on the color Tondo...
That's an artistic reconstruction so nothing serious here and he did the same thing with the bust of macrinus then apologized and made a new one saying he didn't know how ancient north africans were supposed to look like.
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: [/qb]
your point ? In terms of pigmentation that's not an average north african.
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: I mean would you have been upset if they got a European/British man to play Septimius Severus...I feel like you would'nt care, only blacks upset you.
Of course but that british/european actor would still be physically closer to him than this nigerian actor.
I mean wtf they literally took a fucking nigerian that's like using a european or arab to play a chinese historical figure. Ridiculous. My people are literally being erased and you dare to call me a racist ?
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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posted
Stop lying, there are frescos of Black/dark skin people regardless of gender.
Posts: 1123 | From: New York | Registered: Feb 2016
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quote:Originally posted by Thereal: Stop lying, there are frescos of Black/dark skin people regardless of gender.
again go educate yourself :
quote:It was a widespread custom in the ancient Mediterranean to use skin color as an indicator of gender. Men were often portrayed with dark reddish-brown skin, women with pale yellow-white skin. This artistic convention reflects a conventional ideology in which the socially acceptable activities for men were agriculture and war, outdoor occupations which exposed them to the sun. Women were similarly expected to stay indoors, working in the home and preserving their pale skin.
quote: Skin color could also be used to indicate other features of identity. Darker skin, for instance, was associated with age, lighter skin with youth. Children were often depicted with light-colored skin, regardless of gender. In this portrait of the family of the Roman Emperor Septimius Severus, Septimius’ skin is distinctly darker than his wife Julia Domna’s, but their son Caracalla’s skin is even a little paler than his mother’s. (Their other son Geta’s face was obliterated in antiquity after Caracalla became emperor and assassinated his brother).
And again Septimius viewed the skin color of a black african as "ominious" :
quote:After inspecting the wall near the rampart in Britain… just as he [Severus] was wondering what omen would present itself, an Ethiopian from a military unit, who was famous among buffoons and always a notable joker, met him with a garland of cypress. And when Severus in a rage ordered that the man be removed from his sight, troubled as he was by the man's ominous colour and the ominous nature of the garland, [the Ethiopian] by way of jest cried, it is said, “You have been all things, you have conquered all things, now, O conqueror, be a god.”
Historia Augusta, ‘Septimius Severus’, 22.4-5
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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posted
While I find nothing wrong with the explanation on the surface,it sounds like a oversimplification.
Rome became a mixed society at one,so how would a dark man and light women fit in to account for foreigners who attained so high social standing and is depicted as such? Also,there are three frescoes,if accurate is confusing. There's the Achilles one in drag, there's the Dido one with a Black/dark skin woman and this if you can see it well.
246c5d1d3d4032d413c1e63d9758c3af.jpg
Posts: 1123 | From: New York | Registered: Feb 2016
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posted
like I said even if we pretend that's a realistic depiction then how does that support the afrocentrist theory ? Most north africans have that skin color + his busts show no ssa traits + the quote clearly highlights the fact that he saw dark skin as ominious therefore the BBC taking a nigerian actor to portray that emperor is utterly ridiculous.
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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posted
Indeed. In the future it would be better if more countries could do historic films and TV-series about their own history, and not letting Americans or Brits define how other peoples ancestors looked like, based on commercial or ideological considerations.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2684 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: Indeed. In the future it would be better if more countries could do historic films and TV-series about their own history, and not letting Americans or Brits define how other peoples ancestors looked like, based on commercial or ideological considerations.
I couldn't have said it better and that's why they are not going to produce that kind of thing here or else we'll go to the court.
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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posted
Tazarah can not prove that ancient Israelites only had Y-DNA haplogroup E. He just wants it to be true. What we find when we look at the actual finds from what is today Israel during the Bronze age and Iron age is Haplogroup J. We do not find more than a couple Haplogroup E. Seems Tazarah can not accept actual finds in Israel.
And he can not show 73 examples of Haplogroup E from the Bronze age or Iron age Israel. Those are just something he assumes, without any evidence. Actual findings trump assumptions.
Tazarah can not understand the simple fact that the ancient Levantines already had mixed with people from Zagros and Caucasus and that Canaanites and Hebrews were a result of that mix. Tazarah can not read either that it explicitly says that these peoples DNA lives on in todays Jews and Arabs. Tazarahs stubborness and refusal to admit that he is wrong have passed the limit of plain stupidity.
quote:Origin and diffusion of human Y chromosome haplogroup J1-M267
The major branch—J1a1a1-P58—evolved during the early Holocene ~ 9500 years ago somewhere in the Arabian Peninsula, the Levant, and southern Mesopotamia. Haplogroup J1-M267 expanded during the Chalcolithic, the Bronze Age, and the Iron Age. Most probably, the spread of Afro-Asiatic languages, the spread of mobile pastoralism in the arid zones, or both of these events together explain the distribution of haplogroup J1-M267 we see today in the southern regions of West Asia.
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: post deleted by the lioness,
we have plenty of threads on Israelites you are not going to be in this forum talking about Jews or Israelites in any random thread and trying to continue non-productive repetitive banter going in circles imported from other threads
~lioness
Good, I will also abstain from the Jewish DNA debate in this thread if only Tazarah keeps away, or discuss the topic of the thread.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2684 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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Is this the complexion of the average Maghrebian ?
If not what is? .
.
Is this the complexion of the average Maghrebian ?
what race is this? [/QB]
yep that's closer to the average so olive skinned and what do you mean by race ? NW africans are their own thing they are not really close to any surrounding population.
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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Is this the complexion of the average Maghrebian ?
If not what is? .
.
Is this the complexion of the average Maghrebian ?
what race is this?
yep that's closer to the average so olive skinned and what do you mean by race ? NW africans are their own thing they are not really close to any surrounding population. [/QB]
How? If people can come then people can go out.
Posts: 1123 | From: New York | Registered: Feb 2016
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You're asking why we're distinct ? Because of multiple factors like genetic drift, our profile itself is unique and the fact that we have black ancestry compared to other eurasians inflate our genetic distances, we're also the only mediterranean population that managed to preserve 30-40% of mesolithic ancestry.
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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quote: Olive skin is a human skin colour spectrum. It is often associated with pigmentation in the Type III to Type IV and Type V ranges of the Fitzpatrick scale. It generally refers to light or moderate tan skin, and it is often described as having yellow, green, or golden undertones.
People with olive skin can sometimes become paler if their sun exposure is limited. Lighter olive skin still tans more easily than light skin does, and generally still retains notable yellow or greenish undertones.
An example from Greece: "A baker with olive skin from Greece, an archetypal olive-skinned region"
Another chart with skin colors
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2684 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
I did not bring up DNA, archeotypery did. I also did not bring up Israel.
There's no point in even discussing DNA with people like him because he obviously does not understand how it works, especially Y-DNA.
Y-DNA markers do not change, it's impossible.
He just wants to cry and complain about black people and misrepresents DNA to try preventing black people from identifying as certain groups that he does not want to be black.
That's all this is about
Posts: 2492 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
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quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: Here is one definition of olive skin.
quote: Olive skin is a human skin colour spectrum. It is often associated with pigmentation in the Type III to Type IV and Type V ranges of the Fitzpatrick scale. It generally refers to light or moderate tan skin, and it is often described as having yellow, green, or golden undertones.
People with olive skin can sometimes become paler if their sun exposure is limited. Lighter olive skin still tans more easily than light skin does, and generally still retains notable yellow or greenish undertones.
An example from Greece: "A baker with olive skin from Greece, an archetypal olive-skinned region"
^^^ the man is NOT olive skinned, sorry wiki, wrong
_____________________
these men are light brown like people all over the world. "Olive skin" is an attempt to separate
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: [QB] I did not bring up DNA, archeotypery did. I also did not bring up Israel.
My apologies I went back in the thread and see yes it was Archeopteryx who brought this up
But this is Antalas thread
My message to Archeopteryx and Tazarah I don't want to see repetition of the same stuff we have been going over and over again about Israelites in other threads. The topic here is North Africa as intended by Antalas that means we are not talking about the Levant by the thread starters intent
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Well, as you say Olive is just a span of light brown skin tones. I do not know exactly how the name came to be, but it seems to be used in for example the beauty industry.
Olive usually implies a less saturated muted green
If you mix blue and yellow you get green. Olive leans slightly more yellow but with a touch of brown. It looks like a grayed down green
You might see people like Maghrebians looking yellowish brown or a sand color although some are reddish brown Khosians also often have this yellow tint
But a hint of green? You don't really see that in humans
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Seems they also sometimes use the name Olive skin tone for the kind of colors you described for Maghrebians and Khoisans and others. Seems like the definitions vary depending on which articles one reads.
Here is yet another chart
Maybe the definition of olive differs a bit depending on if we talk about skin color, or if we talk about colors in general?
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2684 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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quote:Originally posted by Archeopteryx: Seems they also sometimes use the name Olive skin tone for the kind of colors you described for Maghrebians and Khoisans and others. Seems like the definitions vary depending on which articles one reads.
Here is yet another chart
Maybe the definition of olive differs a bit depending on if we talk about skin color, or if we talk about colors in general?
There is no standardization in any of these charts, names of colors are applied randomly
the above starts
Dark Brown Brown Olive
No consistency, and they don't use "light brown" Instead "fair" is used
If you are going to start with Dark Brown that is Brown based with an adjective before it Consistently
Dark Brown Medium Brown Light Brown
or
Dark Brown Reddish Brown Orangish Brown Yellowish Brown Medium Dark Brown Medium Brown Medium Light Brown Light Brown Beige Pinkish Beige
But I had to switch to beige here There is no perfect way of doing it but I thinks this is an improvement. Otherwise numbers can be used in a standardized way and electronic color measurement. But at least a fruit (olive) is not introduced and a fruit which is not even of consistent color like an orange. The olive comes in many very different colors. The most famous one is the muted grayish green color I think "olive skin" should be abandoned. I sense it's sometimes used to imply "no we are not light brown like like much of the world, we are unique, we have this special olive color"
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by KING: Nice picture of King Solomon
Biblical figures are Black look how the Isrealites lifed inside Egypt for years intermixing with the Black Egyptians is something that would of happen.
Heres what a egyptian looked like from Egypt Blackest and African
Gahuhad who I Worship chose the Isrealites as his chosen people and ordered them out of Egypt after many years of Black mixing Black going on. We see the importance of Egypt with Jesus Chryist hiding inside Egypt. Egypt is not middle east its part of Africa and shows the importance of Africans inside the Holy Bible
God forgive me if I spelled your name wrong. I was listening to outside people.
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
I was watching the new season of Barbarians and of course they couldn't resist putting at least one black actress in the middle of Germany but worse she's apparently a carthaginian (+ chronologically it doesn't even make sense since she talks about her family being killed by the romans while the destruction of Carthage occured more than 150 years before she existed lol) :
her carthaginian father in the serie :
I suppose north african actors are only good for criminal and terrorist roles.
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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posted
The very title of this thread is nonsensical and idiotic.
There is NO SUCH THING as "darkwashing". You can't wash something "dark" only WHITE. Hence the phrase is white-washing.
I believe the actual term the thread author intentionally means is DARK-PAINTING or BLACK-PAINTING. Since objects are painted darker but are washed lighter or whiter.
That's my only contribution to this thread. The author of this thread may have a point-- to a degree, at least in Northwest Africa but his complaints pale in comparison to the centuries of constant white-washing that Western media has done on North Africans particularly Egyptians and even academia on Sub-Saharans! So I find his complaints of the opposite hilarious.
That's all.
-------------------- Mahirap gisingin ang nagtutulog-tulugan. Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: The very title of this thread is nonsensical and idiotic.
There is NO SUCH THING as "darkwashing". You can't wash something "dark" only WHITE. Hence the phrase is white-washing.
I believe the actual term the thread author intentionally means is DARK-PAINTING or BLACK-PAINTING. Since objects are painted darker but are washed lighter or whiter.
That's my only contribution to this thread. The author of this thread may have a point-- to a degree, at least in Northwest Africa but his complaints pale in comparison to the centuries of constant white-washing that Western media has done on North Africans particularly Egyptians and even academia on Sub-Saharans! So I find his complaints of the opposite hilarious.
That's all.
Indeed. And assorted complaints also fail to realize that the city of Carthage did not end with the Roman destruction during the 3rd Punic War. A new city of Carthage was constructed during later Roman times by Julius Caesar and continued all the way into the early Christian period, which overlaps with the Germania background of the series. Indeed Carthage became an early center of Christianity in North Africa. So to claim that the depicted actress as a Carthaginian "doesn't make sense" is both inaccurate and dubious.
QUOTE:
".. Julius Caesar later sent a number of landless citizens there, and in 29 BCE Augustus centred the administration of the Roman province of Africa at the site. Thereafter it became known as Colonia Julia Carthago, and it soon grew prosperous enough to be ranked with Alexandria and Antioch. Carthage became a favourite city of the emperors, though none resided there... ..
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by zarahan aka Enrique Cardova: Indeed. And assorted complaints fail to realize that the city of Carthage did not end with the Roman destruction during the 3rd Punic War. A new city of Carthage was constructed during later Roman times by Julius Caesar and continued all the way into the early Christian period, which overlaps with the Germania background of the series. Indeed Carthage became an early center of Christianity in North Africa. So to claim that the depicted actress as a Carthaginian "doesn't make sense" is both inaccurate and dubious.
QUOTE:
".. Julius Caesar later sent a number of landless citizens there, and in 29 BCE Augustus centred the administration of the Roman province of Africa at the site. Thereafter it became known as Colonia Julia Carthago, and it soon grew prosperous enough to be ranked with Alexandria and Antioch. Carthage became a favourite city of the emperors, though none resided there... ..
Idiot I'm well aware of the roman colony of Carthage but the show is referring to the destruction of Carthage in 146BC. And black actors are certainly not representative of the ancient carthaginian population.
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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posted
The show is set in Germania circa 6 AD. This easily overlaps the later Carthagian city. The actress did not say ancient Carthage which was long gone, so the only other alternative was the later city. So to say it "doesn't make sense" actually makes no sense at all.
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by zarahan aka Enrique Cardova: [QB] The show is set in Germania circa 6 AD. This easily overlaps the later Carthagian city. The actress did not say ancient Carthage which was long gone, so the only other alternative was the later city. So to say it "doesn't make sense" actually makes no sense at all.
You clearly haven't watched it the season 2 is in 10 A.D and she's talking about her family being killed by romans; I'm not aware of any roman massacre in carthage during that time period and the first settlers of the roman carthage were italians. Nothing make sense, stop trying to pretend you know better than me about this time period.
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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posted
So far you have shown you know very little about the period else you would have known that Carthage was rebuilt and ruled by Rome, and that the city continued on into the Christian era. And who says the woman had to be among the "first settlers" in the reloaded Carthage? That's like saying a white guy can't be an American because his ancestors were not among the Indian "first settlers." Another dubious assumption is that you need some sort of reported "massacre" to serve as some sort of "proof" that your family was killed. Using this line of reasoning, the killings of black families in the Jim Crow South never happened because various groups of terrorists, night riders, or local collaborators did not report, or the newspapers or authorities did not report a "massacre."
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Antalas: I was watching the new season of Barbarians and of course they couldn't resist putting at least one black actress in the middle of Germany but worse she's apparently a carthaginian (+ chronologically it doesn't even make sense since she talks about her family being killed by the romans while the destruction of Carthage occured more than 150 years before she existed lol) :
her carthaginian father in the serie :
I suppose north african actors are only good for criminal and terrorist roles.
She looks like Roman Era Algerians.
This has nothing on whitewashes. I've seen North Africans who look like her father. Hell you had Roman era Euros who looked like her father.
Posts: 1254 | From: howdy | Registered: Mar 2014
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quote:Originally posted by zarahan aka Enrique Cardova: [QB] So far you have shown you know very little about the period else you would have known that Carthage was rebuilt and ruled by Rome, and that the city continued on into the Christian era. And who says the woman had to be among the "first settlers" in the reloaded Carthage? That's like saying a white guy can't be an American because his ancestors were not among the Indian "first settlers." Another dubious assumption is that you need some sort of reported "massacre" to serve as some sort of "proof" that your family was killed. Using this line of reasoning, the killings of black families in the Jim Crow South never happened because various groups of terrorists, night riders, or local collaborators did not report, or the newspapers or authorities did not report a "massacre."
Seems like you don't have any argument since I already told you I knew about roman carthage but the show makes it eminently clear that it is about the destruction of the punic one in 146bc. I brought the first settlers because the city was rebuilt a few decades before she existed making her parents among the first settlers.
As for the "dubious" assumption, I suppose the general germanicus killing her father who was a simple blacksmith makes sense to you. I don't see why you try to contradict me, series making historical mistakes aren't uncommon.
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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This has nothing on whitewashes. I've seen North Africans who look like her father. Hell you had Roman era Euros who looked like her father.
Yes romans and carthaginians looked nigerian back then but then they got replaced by north european tribes like the vandals and ostrogoths who bleached them
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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Winter and Spring, details of the Mosaic of the Four Seasons from Ain Beida near Timgad (2nd century AD) Algeria Mujahid Museum, Algeria
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Wow Did the Algerian government stamp issuer alter the colors even if the Italian website imgs are kinda off color its resolution is superior.
I been had I been took Algeria's gov Made me a schnook
There is many a way to look late 1st Century BCE - 7th Century CE 'Algerian' from central Sahra oases to the Med coast Djur Djura and everywhere in between.
posted
In Neil Marshals film Centurion a roman soldier of Numidian descent, Macros, is played by the actor Noel Clarke whose parents were from Trinidad.
quote: Macros (Noel Clarke)
A legionary of the second cohort of the Ninth Legion. Originally from Numidia, he was a noted marathon runner in Greece before joining the army.
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