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If upper Egypt is responsible for state formation, wouldnt it be better to focus on the race of the upper Egyptians? IIRC Lower Egypt was considered a backwater region and tho it may've had influences from the Levant this influence seems minimal, lacks respect by the Egyptians and yea the formation of Egypt came from the south right? I guess focusing on both and not on the impact of Upper Egypt in state formation is overlooked since the North has had more physiological and cultural influences from out of Africa than the South.
Djehuti Member # 6698
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^ Actually, for a long while academia has acknowledged that Egyptian state formation and advancement came from the south in the area Egyptologists have traditionally called the 'Thebald' after Thebes. They just wouldn't go past Aswan into (negro) Nubian territory, UNTIL the discovery of Qustul culture a.k.a. Ta Seti back in the late 70s by Bruce Williams. Before Williams discovery, only a few scholars including Diop would even acknowledge that Egypt's roots lay further south. But now with the discovery of Qustul and the cat being out of the bag, I don't know. It seems like many Egyptologists are too afraid to break the academic tradition of venturing past the Aswan border. Of course those that do end up white-washing the Nubians as well with the nonsense of Nubians being 'Cacasoids'! LOL
the lioness Member # 17353
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I think some people don't understnd what was actaully recovered of the Qustul incence burner and the drawing the Oriental Institute put out is speculation of what the missing fragments showed. Below is the Insitute's drawing of 4 views, "sides" of the circular Qustul incense burner, some of the views are reconstructed by speculation as to what was on the rest of them . The incense burner was found in fragments, some large pieces were missing. The fragments that were found were attached to a facimile stucture for presentation.
^^^^ VIEW #1. In View #1 we see that the fragment is almost all intact and matches the drawing.
^^^^^ VIEW #3 quite a bit of the original is missing here, never found. The blank areas are the facimile struture which the fragment was attached to. Now look up a the line drawing #3 . The drawing is a guess as to what the rest of the fragment showed, for example the shapes that look like two people's heads is speculation a guess as to waht was in that blank area.
Here's view #2. Compare the actual fragment that was found to the line drawing #2 that was a guess as to what the rest of this side of the burner was. The speculation is that an indented shape is the shape of a White Crown (Hedjet) as was known in Egypt. That there is the figure of a king below that shape in the drawing is a guess. In actuality that piece is missing.
Here's another view of the same fragment #2 (slightly turned)
________^^^ Here you can see more clearly the shape that Bruce Williams believed to be a White Crown. Look directly above the arrows, this is the crucial shape everyone talks about
VIEW #2 (slightly turned)
Drawing #2 is divided in half by a squiggly line which represents the break off point of the fragment. Below this line is a guess that a king is sitting there. It's possible but there are some questionable things about it which makes it uncertain despite the fact that we might want it to be there. For example,looking at the actual fragment shape, if it is a crown, the angle of the crown is almost 45 degrees. The white crown is usually not worn at so much of an angle. Secondly look again at the figure that was actually recovered in VIEW #1. Compare it to the guess of figure of a sitting king in the drawing for VIEW #2. The head is much larger in relation to the little child like body. The proportion of the big headed king does not match the proprotion of the other figures that don't have big heads. Is that sahpe really a white crown? Was the missing figure that of a king sitting down? It's hard to be certain. The whole theory rests, mainly, on this one indented shape above.
^^^compare to this, the white crown is worn such that it is at a slight angle, not 45 degrees. Also there is ample space for the figure to sit. In the specualtive drawing the sitting figure is very small compared to how big the head would be if that shape really was a white crown.
Troll Patrol Member # 18264
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The drawing is figurative.
And up UNTILL this day incense and perfume oils are being produced by the locals.
zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova Member # 15718
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Troll Patrol Member # 18264
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quote:Originally posted by Oshun: If upper Egypt is responsible for state formation, wouldnt it be better to focus on the race of the upper Egyptians? IIRC Lower Egypt was considered a backwater region and tho it may've had influences from the Levant this influence seems minimal, lacks respect by the Egyptians and yea the formation of Egypt came from the south right? I guess focusing on both and not on the impact of Upper Egypt in state formation is overlooked since the North has had more physiological and cultural influences from out of Africa than the South.
In fact 2/3 of the excavations. And what we see, such as temples are located or came from the South. Some of what you'll see at the Cairo museum in the North was taken from the South and brought to the North. Otherwise it would be too boring for visitors from foreign countries. The South is where it's at.
Djehuti Member # 6698
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^ Indeed. The very formation of the sepati (nomes) began in the south with the 1st nome being Ta-Seti! The nomes of the north weren't officially set up until dynastic times when the north was incorporated into the union.
LOL @ the Lyinass spinning. 1st off, the incense burner was found among its fragments. Second off, they used scanners to help in their speculations. And lastly, many of the depictions can also be found in the local rock art either contemporary or earlier than that of the incense burner! Further studies in both Lower Nubia as well as Nekhen have confirmed Diop-- that pharaonic culture is truly derived from Nubia. The very roots of both Qustul AND Naqada is the Sudanese neolithic which is descended from the earlier Khartoum Mesolithic.
Now continue to complain if you want neanderdummy, but your whining won't change the FACTS!
the lioness Member # 17353
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: [QB] ^ Indeed. The very formation of the sepati (nomes) began in the south with the 1st nome being Ta-Seti! The nomes of the north weren't officially set up until dynastic times when the north was incorporated into the union.
LOL @ the Lyinass spinning. 1st off, the incense burner was found among its fragments.
LOL, asshole I already said that in my post, that's the problem moron pieces are missing. For example no figure of a Pharoah only a shape believed by some to be a hedjet.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Second off, they used scanners to help in their speculations.
LOL at the BS spin that scanners" help in their speculations. Explain how "scanners" suggest what was on a missing fragment. The scanner said "see that indent shape on a 45 degree angle? there's probably a figure sitting under that with a tiny body"
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: And lastly, many of the depictions can also be found in the local rock art either contemporary or earlier than that of the incense burner!
more LOLs one after the other, where are they? post the photos
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Further studies in both Lower Nubia as well as Nekhen have confirmed Diop-- that pharaonic culture is truly derived from Nubia.
additional LOL, post the studies that confirm Egyptian pharonic culture is derived from Nubia, it should be right there in your file, I'll wait
Djehuti Member # 6698
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^ Sorry Neanderdunce, but if you doubt the reconstruction of Williams and his peers, take it up with THEM! They studied the incense burner in detail, YOU didn't! Anyway, I won't do your research for you. Look up proto-hieroglyphs in Qustul and Sayalah.
Meanwhile as far as Nubian influence in predynastic Egypt, I'll just cite this:
A biological affinities study based on frequencies of cranial nonmetric traits in skeletal samples from three cemeteries at Predynastic Naqada, Egypt, confirms the results of a recent nonmetric dental morphological analysis. Both cranial and dental traits analyses indicate that the individuals buried in a cemetery characterized archaeologically as high status are significantly different from individuals buried in two other, apparently non-elite cemeteries and that the non-elite samples are not significantly different from each other. A comparison with neighboring Nile Valley skeletal samples suggests that the high status cemetery represents an endogamous ruling or elite segment of the local population at Naqada, which is more closely related to populations in northern Nubia than to neighboring populations in southern Egypt. T. Prowse, and N. Lovell "Concordance of Cranial and Dental Morphological Traits and Evidence for Endogamy in Ancient Egypt" American Journal of Physical Anthropology. 1996, vol. 101, no2, pp. 237-246 (2 p.1/4)
Djehuti Member # 6698
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Oshun Member # 19740
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BTW is there archeological evidence that Egyptian state formation was in the South sides the burner? I've seen stuff that say it, but not the raw info.
Djehuti Member # 6698
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^ I suggest you do research because it a basic FACT of Egyptology that the Egyptian state originated in the south. Most forms of advanced culture began in the south with not only kingship and associated tombs and monuments but writing itself all developed in Upper Egypt. Lower Egypt by contrast had very little cultural material.
By the way, the Egyptians didn't have incense burners at least not that early as the people of Qustul.
Oshun Member # 19740
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instead of just sayin "do your research" can you point me to some raw archeological info that can help? Clearly I havent been doing too well. sides i dont disagree i just want archeological evidence too.
Djehuti Member # 6698
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^ You can try a google search on past egyptsearch threads with key phrases like 'southern origins' or 'Nubian origins'. Other than that, you can google Qustul, Sayalah, or Ta-Seti and look up Bruce Trigger. You can also look up Nekhen which is one of the oldest, if not the oldest predynastic archaeological sites in Egypt. I already cited a source above showing the elite of Nekhen to be of Nubian origin.
Vansertimavindicated Member # 20281
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WHAT DID I TELL YALL! AT ANY RATE, THE MONKEY IS NOT FINISHED WORKING FOR ME JUST YET!
As most of you have already figured out, this entire board consists of ONE sick degenerate that has created ficticious names to talk to itself in. Just a few of these names are CLYDE WINTERS, MIKE111, Djehuti and THE LIONESS. however ALL of the posters on this site EXCEPT for MYSELF are this one sick degenerate! There is NOONE on this site that can be trusted but me. The only links on this site that can be trusted are the ones that I provide for you! Here is a link that you can use as a resource and can be trusted! http://www.raceandhistory.com/
When you have finished reading this post check out this site to learn the truth about history and ALL civilzations. Do NOT be fooled by the real history link that the filthy monkey created using the race and history link as a guide. This is the ONLY site that can be trusted http://www.raceandhistory.com/
Isnt it funny how this one little link destroys all of the charts, graphs and pics that the filthy monkey lies to us with? You now understand why the filthy monkey continues to spam the board with photos of modern day populations that had absolutely NOTHING to do with ancient Egypt
The next time one of these degenerates tries to tell you a lie just refer the moonkey to the latest DNA analysis on the ancient Egyptians, and then tell the faggot to crawl back in its cave!
The pig just keeps showing us why these crackers should not exist! They have genetically recessive genes and ion 50 years they will be the minority in BRITAIN!! THAT ALONE SHOULD TELL YOU THAT THEY WILL EVENTUALLY DIE OUT LIKE THE UNATURAL ABOMINATIONS THAT THEY ARE!
Look at the low IQ monkey with its charts and pictures LOL tHE dna analysis does not matter to this monkey, because it lives in a world of fantasy! lol
Folks, the monkey performs at my commend. I am this monkeys master!But then again all one needs to do is take a cursury look at this monkeys youtube page to understand the tenuous grip on reality that this monkey has! LOL http://www.youtube.com/user/phoenician7
When the DNA analysis irrefutably shows that the modern day populations of South Africa, West Africa anmd central Africa are the ancestors of the ancient Egyptians what does a low IQ monkey do???
The low IQ monkey shows pictures and charts and munbles on and on about haplogroups while completely ignoring what the DNA analysis of the ancient Egyptians actually says LOL
the DNA analysis irrefutably shows that the modern day populations of South Africa, West Africa anmd central Africa are the ancestors of the ancient Egyptians. Thats what the DNA says, thats what the science says. This monkey in all of its fake names is very pathetic isnt it?
quote:Originally posted by Oshun: instead of just sayin "do your research" can you point me to some raw archeological info that can help? Clearly I havent been doing too well. sides i dont disagree i just want archeological evidence too.
And the info is in the central database already posted on these boards several time within the last month.
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