quote: By Tia Ghose, LiveScience Southern Europeans get a significant portion of their genetic ancestry from North Africa, new research suggests. The findings are perhaps not surprising, given that the Romans occupied North Africa and set up extensive trade routes in the region, and the Moors, a North African people, ruled a medieval territory called El-Andalus on the Iberian Peninsula. But the findings, published Monday in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, suggest the impact of these connections went beyond culture and architecture, and may explain why Southern Europeans have more genetic diversity than their northern counterparts.
"The higher level of genetic variation in Southern Europeans reflects gene flow from North Africa during historical times. We're talking about the last 2,000 years, really from the Middle Ages during which there was occupation in Spain," said study co-author Carlos Bustamante, a geneticist at Stanford University. More diverse Past studies had shown that Southern Europeans such as Spaniards, Greeks and Italians had more genetic variability than people from Northern Europe; other studies showed they had a small percentage of what looked like sub-Saharan ancestry. [The 10 Things That Make Humans Unique] Some argued that this genetic diversity came from the Moorish occupation of the Iberian Peninsula in southwestern Europe or the Roman contact with North African civilizations such as Carthage around 2,000 years ago. But because researchers didn't have DNA samples from people in North Africa, the link was difficult to prove. Substantial mixing To untangle European ancestry, Bustamante and his colleagues compared existing DNA samples of 2,099 individuals from 43 different populations in Europe and Africa. Crucially, they included new genetic samples from North Africa and Spain. The team found that for Southwestern Europeans (those from Italy, Spain and Greece), between 4 and 20 percent of their genomes came from North Africa, compared to less than 2 percent in Southeastern Europe. The study also found that the apparent sub-Saharan ancestry in these populations was actually the result of North African lineage. Many contacts The findings suggest contacts between the two continents left traces in the genetics of people of the Iberian Peninsula. "Studies such as this are key to improving our understanding of the impact of historical events and migration patterns in recent human history," Graham Coop, a population geneticist at the University of California, Davis, who was not involved in the study, wrote in an email. "There had been evidence of this contribution before, but the magnitude of the genome-wide contribution had been underestimated, in part due to the lack of dense sampling of Northern African populations." Though the findings are fascinating, the study researchers weren't able to resolve how much of this North African genetic component emerged during Roman times versus during the more modern Moorish occupation, said Priya Moorjani, a geneticist from Harvard University, who was not involved in the study. "It would be really exciting to look at all these events, but with modern DNA it can be quite hard to do that." Instead, looking at ancient DNA from fossil skeletons of Romans and Moors could help to answer those more detailed questions, Moorjani said.
The team found that for Southwestern Europeans (those from Italy, Spain and Greece), between 4 and 20 percent of their genomes came from North Africa, compared to less than 2 percent in Southeastern Europe. The study also found that the apparent sub-Saharan ancestry in these populations was actually the result of North African lineage.
Really? No, but seriously, this is not exactly news. It just may be the case that European researchers and observers alike, are becoming more welcoming of the fact. This issue has been observed for quite some time now; most recently noted here: Genetic Profile: Maghrebi populations are Not "Satellite-Europeans" in Africa
Doug M Member # 7650
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LOL!
Europeans are multi ethnic and the result of waves of Migrations from Africa, Asia and the Levant. It is funny how they have turned history on top of its head because they colonized the world over the last 500 years and because of that have painted this bogus picture of Europe as some island of racial purity.....
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Why hasn't Europe been considered a 'sub contient' like India as of yet??? Just like India, Europe had multiple waves of populations migrating in, just like Doug M stated.
Funny these European/White Nationalist go on and on about how they are so pure and so preserve the 'white race', yet Europeans are the most mixed and recent group of people. The irony...
the lioness, Member # 17353
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quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: Why hasn't Europe been considered a 'sub contient' like India as of yet??? Just like India, Europe had multiple waves of populations migrating in, just like Doug M stated.
Funny these European/White Nationalist go on and on about how they are so pure and so preserve the 'white race', yet Europeans are the most mixed and recent group of people. The irony...
I think natives of the Americas and East Asians are the most recent
Son of Ra Member # 20401
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@the lioness
Modern Europeans aren't the same as the ancient ones. True no population is really the same as the prehistoric one. But the ancient Europeans left little DNA on the modern/current one.
the lioness, Member # 17353
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quote:Originally posted by mena7:
The Papacy and the Black Nobility of Europe with Black Emperor Charle V of Spain were behind the African slave trade. [/QB]
Mike University graduate
mena7 Member # 20555
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Doug M nice picture of black Gypsy from Bulgaria.The Gypsy are a dark skin semi nomadic people living in Europe.Some people say the Gypsy are immigrant from Egypt other say the Gypsy are immigrant from India.The name Gypsy is short for Egypcianos or Egyptian.Because of that I think the Gypsy are from Egypt.
Another name from the Gypsy is Roma.Roma is an Egyptian word meaning people.Roma is also the Italian name for the city of Rome.
Dennis Hoper is wrong in the movie True Romance the Sicilian were not blond before the coming of the Moors(black) in the middle age.Long before the invasion of the Moors Italian and Sicilian were multi racial in the classical time with a population of mulato, black and white.The majority of Italian were dark skin not blond.Clyde Winters states that classical historian claimed black people created Rome and Athen.
Colonial European historian erased the black European from history.
Lioness with World History Im open minded because truth is stranger then fiction.
Son of Ra Member # 20401
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Yeah I take what I said back, this article is actually flawed. I'll explain later.
mena7 Member # 20555
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Im reading the book the African origin of Classical Civilisation by GJK Campbell-Dunn.According to the Author the Mediteranean was peopled by black people in prehistory.With the coming of white people the Mediteranean population became coffee colour.
The population of Crete came from Africa.The middle Minoan population was Yoruba.The Minoan snake Goddess is similar to the West African Goddess of fertility Minona.The Minoan double Axes symbol is similar to the double axes symbol of Yoruba God Shango.the Minoan palace of Knossos is similar to the Asantehene palace at Kumasi.
The Pelasgian were the original black people of Greece.The Carian have an African origin.The Carian were black men who spoke Niger-Congo.The Carian invented the Crestan helmet that is similar to the Fulani Mohican hairstyle.
The Etruscan were originaly matriarchal.They spoke a Niger -Congo language close to Mande.The Etruscan were expert bronze caster.They invented the gladiator games.The Mande Olmec also had a bloody ball game.The Etruscan were the first inhabitant of Rome.
The Roman Atrium house was similar to the Yoruba house.The house style come from Africa.The Roman maked wax mask of their dead parent.They also maked head and bust of their ancestors.The Yoruba maked clay and wax masks of their parents they also maked heads and busts of their dead ancestors.The sella curulis was an ivory stool used as a symbol of authority by the Roman magistrates.In Africa the stool has powerful significance.The Asante King have a gold stool.In Africa only King were allowed to sit on Elephant stools.Latin the language of the Roman show Niger-Congo influence.
The Roman ancestor cult was of African origin.The Manes recalled the African Mani.The two headed God Janus has many paralell in Africa.Much of the Roman religion looks African.Its God are vaguely defined Numina.The Roman Ithyphallic God Priapus look similar to African fertility Gods.Carnival in Venice use masks like in African festivals.Among the Yoruba of Nigeria the dead ancestors were believed to parade in the Egungun masquerade or mask parade.Wearing black masks just like the Roman death masks.
DHDoxies Member # 19701
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Boy can I peg them or can I peg them, Seems I was originally right about Son Of Ra, he finally shows his true colors and proves I was right all along, he is a Black racist who hates Whites LOL.
Mena7, who really gives a crap what a self hating Anti-White racist WINO like GJK Campbell-Dunn writes in his books of his so called "research". I wouldn't touch any of his books with his Anti-White tripe a ten foot pole except to turn them into kindling.
Son of Ra Member # 20401
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@DHDoxies
Um...Yeah can you please find where I am racist against white people? Before you look like an idiot, I actually took back what I said and came to an agreement that this article is actually flawed.
And how does saying modern Europeans not being the same as ancient Europeans imply that I am a racist? Its a proven FACT!
Djehuti Member # 6698
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quote:Originally posted by Son of Ra: Why hasn't Europe been considered a 'subcontinent' like India as of yet??? Just like India, Europe had multiple waves of populations migrating in, just like Doug M stated.
Funny these European/White Nationalist go on and on about how they are so pure and so preserve the 'white race', yet Europeans are the most mixed and recent group of people. The irony...
Forget about populations. Just look at Europe itself geologically. It is nothing more than an appendage of Asia just like India so why is Europe considered a separate continent??
Meanwhile the actual continent of Africa which is much more vast is discussed by Westerners as if it were a country!
As for the genetic findings, nothing new there.
NRY
HLA
HBS (sickle cell)
Son of Ra Member # 20401
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@Djehuti
Yeah its really funny that Europe is considered a continent, its mainly for political reasons.
Isn't some Eb1 clades in Europe mutated and no longer African? Like E-V13?
Djehuti Member # 6698
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^ If by mutated you mean an SNP event, then no. The SNP that created EV-13 did not occur in Europe but likely in Southwest Asia if not Africa. While E-V13 is the E1b1b hg that occurs the most in Europe due to founder effect, it still exists outside of Europe Southwest Asia and probably in Africa.
Also, if say the SNP event did occur in Europe that still would not change its African precedents. I've long noticed the double standard among Eurocentrics for claiming U6 and M1 as Eurasian even though their SNP events took place in Africa despite their allegedly Eurasian antecedents, but then say E-V13 is "no longer African".
Son of Ra Member # 20401
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ If by mutated you mean an SNP event, then no. The SNP that created EV-13 did not occur in Europe but likely in Southwest Asia if not Africa. While E-V13 is the E1b1b hg that occurs the most in Europe due to founder effect, it still exists outside of Europe Southwest Asia and probably in Africa.
Also, if say the SNP event did occur in Europe that still would not change its African precedents. I've long noticed the double standard among Eurocentrics for claiming U6 and M1 as Eurasian even though their SNP events took place in Africa despite their allegedly Eurasian antecedents, but then say E-V13 is "no longer African".
I was having a debate with a guy named Jeff and he said.."There is a nearly 10,000 year span between when E-M78 chromosomes devoid of the V13 mutation migrated out of Africa nearly 20,000 years ago into West Asia, and when the V13 mutation arose in West Asia. EV13 was brought into Europe by West Asians." http://www.topix.com/forum/afam/T8J7FKICHDA2B2U72/p382#c8449
Now Jeff is not a Eurocentrics, he's actually cool and Chinese himself. He agrees that Ancient Egypt was African/Black and he said himself that he is interested in African civilizations. But we have a lot of disagreements. He believes once the OOA migrates left Africa that they immediately turned light skinned and looked completely different from Africans. He believes light skin came about fairly early on and that the early Ancient Europeans were already cold adapted. That's just some of our disagreements. He's a cool guy though and he actually agreed with me that U6 and M1 are no longer Eurasian but African.
DHDoxies Member # 19701
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Ok Son Of Ra, if Whites are not descended from ancient Europeans then please do tell. Where did Whites come from we didn't just pop up out of nowhere, & what name did these first Whites go by?
the lioness, Member # 17353
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quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: Ok Son Of Ra, if Whites are not descended from ancient Europeans then please do tell. Where did Whites come from we didn't just pop up out of nowhere, & what name did these first Whites go by?
white people came from Africa, Atlas mountains
Son of Ra Member # 20401
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quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: Ok Son Of Ra, if Whites are not descended from ancient Europeans then please do tell. Where did Whites come from we didn't just pop up out of nowhere, & what name did these first Whites go by?
First off 'white' is just a skin color. IMO anyone can be white if they have very pale skin.
Like I said before European had MULTIPLE WAVES of migrations of different people from different locations. Some populations replacing each other populations. I remember Lioness saying the ancestors of modern Europeans took refugee on the Iberian peninsula and then migrated to other parts of Europe. The Ancient Europeans..The VERY FIRST Europeans left little genetic mark on the the current European population.
quote:Originally posted by DHDoxies: Ok Son Of Ra, if Whites are not descended from ancient Europeans then please do tell. Where did Whites come from we didn't just pop up out of nowhere, & what name did these first Whites go by?
First off 'white' is just a skin color. IMO anyone can be white if they have very pale skin.
Like I said before European had MULTIPLE WAVES of migrations of different people from different locations. Some populations replacing each other populations. I remember Lioness saying the ancestors of modern Europeans took refugee on the Iberian peninsula and then migrated to other parts of Europe. The Ancient Europeans..The VERY FIRST Europeans left little genetic mark on the the current European population.
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No, but seriously, this is not exactly news. It just may be the case that European researchers and observers alike, are becoming more welcoming of the fact. This issue has been observed for quite some time now; most recently noted here: 
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