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Islam and the fall of African civilizations
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by typeZeiss: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by kenndo: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by osirion: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by typeZeiss: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by osirion: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Djehuti: [qb] I disagree with Osirion's premise. Takruri is right that he obviously does not the history of these African states to blame Islam as the reason why they fell. These empires fell simply due to economic and mainly political turmoil the same as any other empire. [/qb][/QUOTE]Christian Egypt fell due to Islam. Christian Nubia fell due to Saladin. Christian Aksum fell due to the Islamic renaisance that cut off this civilization from the major trade routes. I am not sure why there is a failure to understand the different forms of Christianity that took root in Africa. Certainly I am not referring to the Christianity brought by the colonials powers. [/qb][/QUOTE]This a very simplistic view point. It has less to do with Islam and more to do with the fact that people who never got along with each other (different tribes in Arabia) were bound together by a common belief system which enabled them to fight off "enemies". If the entire jazeera came together for zoroastrianism, buddhism or whatever other ism, it would have been the same result. [/qb][/QUOTE]Yes it is much more complex. Especially in the case of Christian Nubia that had long been inter-marrying with Arabs enough so that they had compromised significantly in terms of their zealousness to remain separate from Islamic influence. Certainly by the time of Saladin, Christian Nubia had already essentially fallen to Islam but was restored by the Aksumites. Only to fall again. Yes it was an economic collapse but this was still the result of Islamic blockage to trade. [/qb][/QUOTE]Nubian people Present day The influx of Arabs to Egypt and Sudan had contributed to the suppression of the Nubian identity following the collapse of the last Nubian kingdom in 1900. A major part of the modern Nubian population were Arabised. The Jaa'leen-the majority of Northern Sudanese and some Donglawes in Sudan, Kenuz and Koreskos in Egypt all claimed to be Arabs. However the vast majority of the Nubians converted to Islam, and Arabic became their main language, in addition to their indigenous old Nubian language. The unique characteristics of Nubians are their culture (dress, dances, traditions and music) as well as their indigenous language which is a common feature of most Nubians. kept in mind the south nubian kingdom was stronger,those nubains never intermarried with arabs,but to protect themselves have their kingdom fell,they brainwash themselves over time to become arabs to stop the arb raids,that's one of the reason why most blacks arabs in the sudan do not have any arab dna. Now is much harder to brain wash them back to their true culture,this may never happen and if it does it may take time. Alwa was the larger nubian kingdom. Also nubians living outside the nile vally like those in chad,nigeria,darfur,noba hills,KENYA UGDANDA etc.... do not have any arab admixture meaning these are still unmixed black africans. Anyway most nubians in sudan have no arab admixture,BUT large nubians do,but more so in egypt,but even in egypt most in recent times may have no arab admixture either since in more recent times nubians from sudan from the nile valley have come there to live. Here is some of real history of christian nubia. makuria By the end of the 6th century it had converted to Christianity, but in the 7th century Egypt was conquered by the Islamic armies, and Nubia was cut off from the rest of Christendom. In 651 an Arab army invaded, but it was repulsed and a treaty known as the baqt was signed creating a relative peace between the two sides that lasted until the 13th century. Makuria expanded, annexing its northern neighbour Nobatia either at the time of the Arab invasion or during the reign of King Merkurios. The period from roughly 750 to 1150 saw the kingdom stable and prosperous, in what has been called the "Golden Age".[1] Increased aggression from Egypt, and internal discord led to the state's collapse in the 14th century. Civil War and Collapse After a period of peace King Karanbas defaulted on these payments, and the Mamluks again invaded and occupied the kingdom in 1312. This time a Muslim member of the Makurian dynasty was placed on the throne. Sayf al-Din Abdullah Barshambu began converting the nation to Islam and in 1317 the Dongola cathedral was turned into a mosque. This was not accepted by other Makurian leaders and the nation fell into civil war and anarchy that very year. The countryside came under the control of the raiding tribes from the desert, and the monarchy was left with effective control over little more than the capital. This effectively ended Makuria as a unified state. There is some evidence the Makurian dynasty survived until the end of the 14th century, including a Makurian call for aid in 1397. It has been suggested that the change of African trade routes and the Black Death did play a major role in the collapse. Dotawo Dotawo (Old Nubian: Lower Dau or Daw) was a kingdom that might have existed in the Beja Region of Northern Sudan and Southern Egypt Lower Nubia in the Middle Ages. It has long been known that a kingdom by this name is mentioned as existing during the collapse of Makuria in the thirteenth century. It was reported to be one of the last surviving Christian states in the region. Scholars believed it was one of a number of small successor states to emerge during this anarchic period. However, the large collection of documents found at Qasr Ibrim in the 1960s overturned this view. The Qasr Ibrim find contains many documents relating to relations between the Eparch of Nobatia and the King of Dotawo. These include relations during the Makuria's peak in the 12th century. The Eparch even seems to have had far more dealings with the king of Dotawo than his overlord the king of Makuria. One explanation for this is that Dotawo is simply another name for Makuria. The depiction of multiple kings clashes with the description of the region given by Arab traveler Ibn Selim el-Aswani. In no known document are the names of both Dotawa and Makuria present, and at several points the listed names of the king of Dotawa matches those of Makuria. However at many other points in time the name of the King of Dotawa being written to does not match that of the King of Makuria. The name also seems to indicate a Kingdom based at Gebel Adda, also known as Daw. One Arab writer reports that the Beja region was structured with thirteen lesser kings under one "Great King," and Dotawo could have been one of these vassal kingdoms. References * Adams, William Y. "The United Kingdom of Makouria and Nobadia: A Medieval Nubian Anomaly." Egypt and Africa: Nubia from Prehistory to Islam. Edited by W.V. Davies. London: British Museum Press, 1991. Alodia Alodia or Alwa was the southernmost of the three kingdoms of Christian Nubia; the other two were Nobatia and Makuria to the north. Ibn Hawqal is the most important external source on the country, being one of the only detailed first hand accounts of a traveller to the country. He describes Alodia as being larger, wealthier, and more powerful than Makuria, with the country covering a large region stretching from Ethiopia to the Kordofan. Alodia was the furthest of the Nubian states from the influences of Egypt and thus the last of the Nubian states to be converted to Islam. The conventional date for the final destruction of Alodia is the Funj conquest of the region in the early sixteenth century. Archaeological evidence seems to show that the kingdom was in decline as early as the thirteenth century. Near the end of this century al-Harrani reports that the capital had been moved to Wayula. Later Mamluk emissaries reported that the region was divided among nine rulers. Alodia seems to have preserved its identity after the Funj conquest and its incorporation into the Kingdom of Sennar. The Alodians, who became known as the Abdallab, revolted under Ajib the Great and formed the semi-autonomous Kingdom of Dongola that persisted for several centuries. # ^ P.L. Shinnie, Ancient Nubia (London: Kegan Paul International, 1996), p. 133. BOOK The Medieval Kingdoms of Nubia - Bryn Mawr Classical Review Derek A. Welsby, The Medieval Kingdoms of Nubia. Pagans, Christians and Muslims along the Middle Nile. London: The British Museum Press ... http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2003/2003-01-16.html AND Amazon.com: Medieval Kingdoms of Nubia: Pagans, Christians and ... [URL=http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FMedieval-Kingdoms-Nubia-Christians-Muslims%2Fdp%2F0714119474&ei=ekXFTtSVMaXw0gHmgImjDw&usg=AFQjCNHEY6LQU1pbXh0-4cs43Pt8993Dgw&sig2=OgV-ItHb65ysn3gpwhP6hA]http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FMedieval-Kingdoms-Nubia-Christians-Muslims%2Fdp%2F0714119474&ei=ekXFT tSVMaXw0gHmgImjDw&usg=AFQjCNHEY6LQU1pbXh0-4cs43Pt8993Dgw&sig2=OgV-ItHb65ysn3gpwhP6hA[/URL] [/qb][/QUOTE]Part of my problem with this is what the hell is "Nubian identity"? This is a false identifier created in the 1600s by Europeans. Secondly, These "Nubians" are a group of varied ethnic groups. I think people who write about these people need to find another way to identify them instead of using that politically charged name which I believe is used to separate the indigenous people form their history and homeland. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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