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[QUOTE]Originally posted by rasol: [QB] Often when Egyptologists try to explain away references to red and black they trap themselves in contradiction: This is from Dr. Hawass: [QUOTE]The god Seth was the god of confusion and the spirit of disorder. He is the best known as the god who introduced murder on earth by killing his brother Osiris, the god who represents good. After time, they agreed on peace and decided that Horus would be the ruler of Lower Egypt and that Seth would rule Upper Egypt. They also agreed, Horus would be the lord of the black land and Seth would be the lord of the red land, including foreign countries and the desert. In the end, the good god conquered the devil and Horus became the King of two lands, Upper and Lower Egypt. [/QUOTE]Let's consider Hawass assessment point by point. [QUOTE]The god Seth was the god of confusion and the spirit of disorder. He is the best known as the god who introduced murder on earth by killing his brother Osiris, the god who represents good. [/QUOTE]Hawass leaves out the fact that Osirus is also identified in mdw ntr as the Black One, he of the Black face, and further Isis is also identified as Black. Isis and Osirus begat Horis, who is also Black, and they are all the ancestors of the "AE" who are also Black. [QUOTE]After time, they agreed on peace and decided that Horus would be the ruler of Lower Egypt and that Seth would rule Upper Egypt. [/QUOTE]Actually Seth originates as a God and in Upper Egypt, then his cult moves to Lower Egypt, and finally over time he becomes a devil-figure and associated with Asiatics. In Seth, we likely find one root-origin of Hebrew Satan, the devil, and the concept of the Red Devil. Thus from the Book of Victory over Seth: [i]One shall bring a figure of Seth of red wax on the chest of which is engraved his name, as follows: Seth the abominable. Furthermore draw him (Seth) on a new sheet of papyrus with fresh ink, or (bring a figure made of) acacia wood or HmA-wood. Tie (the figure of Seth) with a sinew of a red cow; speak words over it. [Spit on it] four times; speak words over it. Stamp on it with the left foot, speak words over it. Hit it with the spear; speak words over it. Cut it with the knife; speak words over it. Put it in the fire; speak words over it. When it is in the fire spit on it again many times; speak words over it. [/i] Seth once villified [and reddened] is banished from Kemet. [i]They are expelling (you, who) is of evil disposition and throw you in your badness into the land of the Asiatics. Egypt, loyal to Horus, organized your slaughter; your grief is repeated. They deliver you to the Devourer. [/i] Seth's redness is congruent with his association with Asiatics. Thus even in the Ramsiad era when his worship resurfaces in Lower Egypt he is still red. Conversely Osirus his wife Isis and their son Horus are always Black. Even when the cult of Isis moves to Greece [the birth of the Black Madonna], she is still Black. This has always been the problem with attempting to make redness and blackness a function of land - the land doesn't move, and is not instrinsic to the peoples discribed. Black and Red applied here are ethnic terms - characteristic of the peoples, not geographical terms rooted in land. [QUOTE]In the end, the good god conquered the devil and Horus became the King of two lands, Upper and Lower Egypt. [/QUOTE]Yes, and he is still Kem Wer - The great Black Horus, King of "Upper Egypt" and "Lower Egypt". In fact there is never any reference to Upper Egypt and Lower Egypt as black vs. red land. Hawass either accidentally or intentionally sows confusion and so ends up contradicting himself. Is lower Egypt supposed to be the black land? Then why does it have the red crown? Is Upper egypt supposed to be the red land? Then why does it have the white crown? The answer is that Red applies to the foreign countries of Red people, Asiatics and Magrheb Libyrans. There is no 'Red' [land/country] of upper or lower Kemet, and there was never any reference to such. All of "Egypt" in contrast is Kemet[nwt], Kemet[rmt] the Black Nation of Black People. 1) the two lands - which are Ta Shemu and Te Mehu, Upper and Lower Egypt neither of which are differeniated based on color. 2) the white crown and the red crown, this is not a reference to land or people but rather to the literal color of the crowns. The white crown originates in Ta-seti, Qustal, Sudan, the red crown in Nub.t [Nagada, Upper egypt]. The crowns including the Red Crown, White Crown, joined crown, and the Blue Crown have their own colors, which are independant of land and people. Thus the crowns themselves 'move' to different territories and polities, but they are still identified by their own colors. Kemetic color dialects are actually not complicated. What is complicated is the acobatics ws.t Egyptology goes thru to run away from them. And what is surprising is that any African scholar would ever credit their patently contradictory nonsenses in the slightest, all to evade and understanding of what is basic: [IMG]http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/mentuhotep23.jpg[/IMG] Kemetu/Deshret, the Black King wears the Red Crown. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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