They are so light skinned what are they mixed with?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
This Africa I, Habari, Red, White, and Blue, Wolofi are all the same sock puppet. Are you also Jo Nongowawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?
Look here Habari, er um Red, White, and Brainless er um Loon Time Toney. Why don't you try getting a life. This boy is mentally unbalanced worrying about the looks of Africans and needing them to be mixed. Boy, your ass is totally abnormal.
J 2 P!!!!!!
J 2 P!!!!!!
J 2 P!!!!!!
J 2 P!!!!!!
J 2 P!!!!!!
: ) For those not in the know J2P stands for (Just Too Pitiful)
Posted by Mmmkay (Member # 10013) on :
quote:They are so light skinned what are they mixed with?
Crude as he may be, argyle has a point. I've noticed a similar pattern in your other posts. Why do you associate lighter than average skin color in tropical african derived populations to be "mixture"?
This is not always the case. You seem to have an unhealthy fixation with such things.
Posted by Wolofi (Member # 14892) on :
I asked if anyone had genetic studies on these people. Either provide or don't respond. Is that so hard?
Argyle might be gay or something I have no desire to respond with a male obsessed with antagonizing other males on a forum and the only thing he contributes is Afro-Nazi lies about Afro Americans being from Egypt, North Africa and East Africa....SAD!!!!
Posted by Mmmkay (Member # 10013) on :
^ Honestly, he sad alot of things, most of them flame-bait, but I have never seen him say that African Americans were coming from egypt.
Posted by abdulkarem3 (Member # 12885) on :
quote:Crude as he may be, argyle has a point. I've noticed a similar pattern in your other posts. Why do you associate lighter than average skin color in tropical african derived populations to be "mixture"?
This is not always the case. You seem to have an unhealthy fixation with such things.
Thisi is common among wolof people, especially amongst ones that i know in which they say things like " i [think that fulani r mixed because they are light skinned.
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Shoo ... even a Dinka's not black according to your average Wolof. Hahaha!!!
Posted by Wolofi (Member # 14892) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Shoo ... even a Dinka's not black according to your average Wolof. Hahaha!!!
LOL, naw man Dinkas are definitely black lol. Whats up man where have you been this forum is dying it needs you back!!
Posted by USA (Member # 15085) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wolofi:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Shoo ... even a Dinka's not black according to your average Wolof. Hahaha!!!
LOL, naw man Dinkas are definitely black lol. Whats up man where have you been this forum is dying it needs you back!!
If you don't mind me asking, are you 100% Wolof? And of which country? I have specific interest in Wolof people, they are part of my national heritage.
Posted by Wolofi (Member # 14892) on :
From SUNUGUL, how are "Wolof" a part of your heritage?!?!?
Posted by USA (Member # 15085) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wolofi: From SUNUGUL, how are "Wolof" a part of your heritage?!?!?
To be more exact, they form part of the ancestry of the Dominican Republic. They are specifically mentioned as a particularly proud people and formed the first recorded slave rebellion: tThe first major recorded demonstration of African resistance in the Americas took place on Christmas Day, 1521, when 20 enslaved Wolofs (Africans from Senegal and Gambia) rose in rebellion on an ingenio (sugar factory) 100 km north west of Santo Domingo. http://www.antislavery.org/breakingthesilence/slave_routes/slave_routes_dominicanrepublic.shtml
This is part of the reason Spain preferred to import slaves from further south of the Senegambian region.
Posted by rasol (Member # 4592) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wolofi:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Shoo ... even a Dinka's not black according to your average Wolof. Hahaha!!!
LOL, naw man Dinkas are definitely black lol. Whats up man where have you been this forum is dying it needs you back!!
^ And then you could leave, that would also help.
Posted by Wolofi (Member # 14892) on :
quote:Originally posted by USA:
quote:Originally posted by Wolofi: From SUNUGUL, how are "Wolof" a part of your heritage?!?!?
To be more exact, they form part of the ancestry of the Dominican Republic. They are specifically mentioned as a particularly proud people and formed the first recorded slave rebellion: tThe first major recorded demonstration of African resistance in the Americas took place on Christmas Day, 1521, when 20 enslaved Wolofs (Africans from Senegal and Gambia) rose in rebellion on an ingenio (sugar factory) 100 km north west of Santo Domingo. http://www.antislavery.org/breakingthesilence/slave_routes/slave_routes_dominicanrepublic.shtml
This is part of the reason Spain preferred to import slaves from further south of the Senegambian region.
I don't think any Wolofi were enslaved but I think you are talking about Mende. They did start many revolts in the Carribean. I would get a DNA test if I were you to be sure what your heritage is.
Posted by Wolofi (Member # 14892) on :
quote:Originally posted by rasol:
quote:Originally posted by Wolofi:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Shoo ... even a Dinka's not black according to your average Wolof. Hahaha!!!
LOL, naw man Dinkas are definitely black lol. Whats up man where have you been this forum is dying it needs you back!!
^ And then you could leave, that would also help.
Get a life you bitter fat boy, if I want to talk to you I will address you personally. Just because your life is miserable and all you have is some little obscure forum to make your inferior mind feel better about yourself doesn't mean you have to be bitter to everyone.
Grow up and be happy
Life is TOO short, get one before it is gone Rasol you have been doing this for over 8 years and to no avail. No books, no websites, no publishing just a bunch of time waisted with no work put forth and you have the nerve to criticize people like Winters or Washington
HATER!!
Posted by USA (Member # 15085) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wolofi:
quote:Originally posted by USA:
quote:Originally posted by Wolofi: From SUNUGUL, how are "Wolof" a part of your heritage?!?!?
To be more exact, they form part of the ancestry of the Dominican Republic. They are specifically mentioned as a particularly proud people and formed the first recorded slave rebellion: tThe first major recorded demonstration of African resistance in the Americas took place on Christmas Day, 1521, when 20 enslaved Wolofs (Africans from Senegal and Gambia) rose in rebellion on an ingenio (sugar factory) 100 km north west of Santo Domingo. http://www.antislavery.org/breakingthesilence/slave_routes/slave_routes_dominicanrepublic.shtml
This is part of the reason Spain preferred to import slaves from further south of the Senegambian region.
I don't think any Wolofi were enslaved but I think you are talking about Mende. They did start many revolts in the Carribean. I would get a DNA test if I were you to be sure what your heritage is.
No time for ethnic pride. Even born in Germany Germans wound up on the nigra slave auction block. Don't believe me? Ask Sally Miller.
Posted by Wolofi (Member # 14892) on :
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Wolofi
No time for ethnic pride. Even born in Germany Germans wound up on the nigra slave auction block. Don't believe me? Ask Sally Miller.
Really how did that happen? IS this why on some genetic charts I see German genome with African ancestry in them?
Posted by Jo Nongowa (Member # 14918) on :
^ Wolofi is not Afriacn/Black.
Posted by Jo Nongowa (Member # 14918) on :
^ Wolofi is not African/Black.
Posted by Wolofi (Member # 14892) on :
^ J Nongowa is not Human/Intelligent
Posted by alTakruri (Member # 10195) on :
Not genetics just greed for the love of money!
GOOGLE Sally Miller for yourself. There were even "tanneries" to darken white orphans or runaways who were then put up on the block.
Everyone needs a basic set of J A Rogers - Sex and Race (esp. vols 1 & 2) - Nature Knows No Color Line - Africa's Gift to America or just get the "coloring book" - Your History (this was once published in the newspapers like Marmaduke or The Lockhorns except its teaching African diasporic history, a good old idea that needs to be resusitated into todays Black newspapers.)
quote:Originally posted by Wolofi:
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Wolofi
No time for ethnic pride. Even born in Germany Germans wound up on the nigra slave auction block. Don't believe me? Ask Sally Miller.
Really how did that happen? IS this why on some genetic charts I see German genome with African ancestry in them?
Posted by Madote (Member # 15212) on :
Staying on topic, there has been no genitic study of Eritreans thus far. Eritrean peoples' history has been intertwined with foreign powers, namely the Ottomans (for 350 years), ancient Egyption (well over 500 years plus), modern Egyptions (two decades or so), Italians (51 years) and the large wave after wave of Sabean Yemenis who migrated to Eritrea and mixed with the local Cushtic populations, namely the Tigrinya and Tigre ethnic groups who make up 85% of the population this very day.
Also, Eritrea's location is a key player on the make up of their current look.
Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Madote: Staying on topic, there has been no genitic study of Eritreans thus far. Eritrean peoples' history has been intertwined with foreign powers, namely the Ottomans (for 350 years), ancient Egyption (well over 500 years plus), modern Egyptions (two decades or so), Italians (51 years) and the large wave after wave of Sabean Yemenis who migrated to Eritrea and mixed with the local Cushtic populations, namely the Tigrinya and Tigre ethnic groups who make up 85% of the population this very day.
Also, Eritrea's location is a key player on the make up of their current look.
Nonsense..
Anyways, most Eritreans are indistinguishable from Northern "semitic-speaking" Ethiopians. Yes, they've shared contact with Yemeni populations whom reside just across a narrow red sea, but interaction was mutual and there's no evidence of language transfer. No it doesn't account for the majority of their features and relatively lighter skin tones since skeletal remains suggest the presence of populations with identical phenotypes going back thousand of years.
^One problem though with this study is that they don't even entertain the alternative and widely held observation that M1 is native to East Africa, thus it may be deceiving to say that maternally, half of their lineages are Yemenini origin and vice versa.
Also, many southern Egyptians share common (African) ancestry with Tigre/Tigray populations. If fact, they are more maternally similar to each other than anyone else. Hence the view the ancient Egyptians mainly derive from early Eastern African migrants.
Sundiata, in what way? Can you give us your point of view?
Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Madote: Can you give us your point of view?
You haven't even given us yours. You just make random claims with no point of reference or evidence to support them and this is just me expressing my skepticism based on what I interpret to be accurate. Your claims I feel are inaccurate but I can't say much more than that until you try and substantiative some of these off-beat claims. I don't have the burden of proof, you do, nor is there any reason for Wolofi here to believe you since u have no sources or data from any of your own original research.
Posted by Madote (Member # 15212) on :
One problem with your sources, they're talking about Ethiopians and we, or atleast I am, am talking about Eritreans.
TIGRE ethnic group of Eritrea speak Tigre and are Muslims for the most part. Don't confuse them with Tigrayans or Tigrays of Ethiopia, who speak Tigrinya and are Similar to Eritrea's largest ethnic group of the Tigrinya, who also speak the Tigrinya language (different dialects).
Tigrinya ethnic group of Eritrea are similar to that of Tigrayans in Ethiopia and speak the same language (different dialects of course). Tigrinya people don't view Tigrayian people to the south in Ethiopia as the same ethnic group as them (lets not dwell on this, it is what it is and no amount wiki sources will change the reality on the ground)
Tigrayans are who live in Ethiopia's Tigray region speak Tigrinya and are similar to Tigrinya of Eritrea.
Now that we have clarified the confusing Tigre, Tigrinya and Tigrayan issue, lets move along to the topic.
Like i've stated, there has been no genetic study done upon the Eritreans, so any sources you have of OTHER countries don't apply here.
Egyptions were on the Eritrean coastline and as deep as the highlands of Eritrea. The two nations have been trading goods with one another for over 3,000 years and evidence of this is present. So them deriving from the horn or vise-versa is not a far stretch but again, this is for another topic.
What i'm stating here is, Eritrean history has impacted their look. The recent migration of the Rashaida is another evidence of how easy it is forpopulations to cross the red sea in large numbers. The people of the horn and the people on the other side of the red sea have been trading goods long before scientist can speculate. When populations ineract or trade goods, you're going to start to see mixing like all across the globe....THe people of the horn have this look PURELY based on their location, some have it more than others due to population movements and history with their neighbors.
Also, please don't post any other sources that does not show DNA study of Eritreans. I asked for apple studies, you gave me pear studies. Both are similar but not the same!
Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Madote: One problem with your sources, they're talking about Ethiopians and we, or atleast I am, am talking about Eritreans.
You obviously aren't aware that they come from the same stock as Eritrea has only been an independent country since the late 20th century. The study goes back centuries. Amhara Ethiopians, Tigre and Tigrayan Ethiopians/Eritreans were/are all Habeshat.
quote:Don't confuse them with Tigrayans or Tigrays of Ethiopia, who speak Tigrinya and are Similar to Eritrea's largest ethnic group of the Tigrinya, who also speak the Tigrinya language (different dialects).
The subtleties here are only a few centuries old. The divergence in ethnicity is recent. They are virtually the same people joe. I honestly don't think you know what you're talking about, and the Tigray region of Ethiopia borders Eritrea, which again, split only a decade and a half ago. I'm older than Eritrea and I'm 23!
quote:TIGRE ethnic group of Eritrea speak Tigre and are Muslims for the most part. Don't confuse them with Tigrayans or Tigrays of Ethiopia, who speak Tigrinya and are Similar to Eritrea's largest ethnic group of the Tigrinya, who also speak the Tigrinya language (different dialects).
These are minor and recently derived cultural differences, not genetic.
quote:Tigrinya ethnic group of Eritrea are similar to that of Tigrayans in Ethiopia and speak the same language (different dialects of course). Tigrinya people don't view Tigrayian people to the south in Ethiopia as the same ethnic group as them (lets not dwell on this, it is what it is and no amount wiki sources will change the reality on the ground)
Why are you babbling on about redundancies? Wiki sources won't instill common sense once you realize that Eritrea as a border is no older than 1993 and any ethnic divergence between Ethiopians is EXTREMELY recent, hence, there's no basis for any genetic distinction.
quote:Tigrayans are who live in Ethiopia's Tigray region speak Tigrinya and are similar to Tigrinya of Eritrea.
Maybe because they derive from the same people with thesame genetic and linguistic make-up. Ever thought about that?
quote:Now that we have clarified the confusing Tigre, Tigrinya and Tigrayan issue, lets move along to the topic.
you only confuse yourself, they are all Habeshat and have no genetic distinction. All of their languages derive from Geez, an Ethiopian language.
quote:Like i've stated, there has been no genetic study done upon the Eritreans, so any sources you have of OTHER countries don't apply here.
Are you an idiot? Eritreans and Ethiopians are the same people, lol..
quote:Egyptions were on the Eritrean coastline and as deep as the highlands of Eritrea. The two nations have been trading goods with one another for over 3,000 years and evidence of this is present. So them deriving from the horn or vise-versa is not a far stretch but again, this is for another topic.
Eritrea didn't exist 3,000 years ago and no, the fact that ancient Egyptians derive from horn Africans isn't far-fetched at all. In fact, it's evident.
quote:What i'm stating here is, Eritrean history has impacted their look. The recent migration of the Rashaida is another evidence of how easy it is forpopulations to cross the red sea in large numbers.
You have no evidence of ANYONE crossing the red sea into modern Eritrea in large numbers, which is your problem. Steady interaction over thousands of years does not constitute onesingle migration from one direction. Everything from their language to their genetics and culture are overwhelmingly indigenous.
Take a look at this thread here, you may learn something.
quote: The people of the horn and the people on the other side of the red sea have been trading goods long before scientist can speculate. When populations ineract or trade goods, you're going to start to see mixing like all across the globe....THe people of the horn have this look PURELY based on their location, some have it more than others due to population movements and history with their neighbors.
Sure, but that "mixing" goes both ways and to project the proportion of that admixture is mere speculation, so attributing features seen among Eritreans that have always been a part of African biohistory to admixture with non-Africans, requires much needed proof.
quote:Also, please don't post any other sources that does not show DNA study of Eritreans. I asked for apple studies, you gave me pear studies. Both are similar but not the same! [/qb]
Please don't post anything at all until you comprehend the relationship between modern Eritreans and modern Ethiopians, both being derived from the same group of people as recent as 50 years ago. Apples and Oranges my ass, you try and distinguish a green apple from a red one and introduce them as two separate fruits.
Posted by Yonis2 (Member # 11348) on :
quote:Sundiata wrote: I honestly don't think you know what you're talking about, especially after calling most of them muslim,
Actually he's right, Tigre are generally muslims, they live in northern Eritrea among the Beja. There is Tigre, Tigrinya ( both Eritrea) and Tigray (Ethiopia).
Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2:
quote:Sundiata wrote: I honestly don't think you know what you're talking about, especially after calling most of them muslim,
Actually he's right, Tigre are generally muslims, they live in northern Eritrea among the Beja. There is Tigre, Tigrinya ( both Eritrea) and Tigray (Ethiopia).
Yom, I edited that out just before your post, I was writing so fast that I didn't notice (or just forgot) that he was only referring to the Tigre and not all Eritreans. I'm not confused on this point (which is rather irrelevant), I'm just pointing out how petty it is to distinguish semitic-speaking Ethiopians and Eritreans based on recent political affiliations and VERY recent cultural divergences.
Posted by Madote (Member # 15212) on :
Did you just say Eritreans and Ethiopians are the Same people? Son, do you not understand how many ethnic groups Ethiopia has? Here's a hint, they have well over 82 different ethnic groups, while Eritrea has 9.
These different ethnic groups don't become magically the same people just because you're speaking from a national point of view. How is Mursi people of Ethiopia the same as a Rashaida of Eritrea? Or a Tigrinya Eritrean the same as an Oromo?
Eritrea as a Nation State is older than Ethiopia. Intrestingly enough, the oldest evidence illustrating geez comes from Eritrea, therefore, how can you say it's an Ethiopian language, when the oldest traces of it has been found in Eritrea? Besides that, Tigre is the closest form of it still being spoken and this language is spoken in Eritrea but not in Ethiopia.
Nation-States in modern Africa appeared only after World War II. Besides, it was always an exaggeration to say that Abyssinia was more than a geographic term for an Area inhabited by a mosaic of ethnic groups ruled by Degesmatchs and Rasses some times calling themselves kings and perpetually waging wars of pillaging and plundering on each other like any war lord realm. The description by the Scotsman James Bruce of Abyssinia of the 18th century is evidence to this and a showcase that the states we are speaking now about are a different type of Nations, the Nation State an invention of the great French Revolution.
Eritrea's independence from Ethiopia came in 1991, it became "legal" in 1993. Ethiopia's independence from the Italians was in 1941, it became legal once the British left shortly afterwards. The Idea of Eritrea having no history all while it being home to some of the oldest traces of historical significance in the horn is purely based on fabrications and desires to be ignorant. The people of Eritrea come from many different kingdoms and empires, they were glued togther by the Italians yes it's true but name one African country that hasn't had it's borders impacted by European/Western powers? NONE. (to save you trouble (and me time), don't say Ethiopia, it's a trap)
The cultrual divergences you speak of are centuries old. The horn is home to countless of bloody wars, invasions and outside influences. Ehnic groups split and fuse toghter all the time, there's no reason to make Eritrean ethnic groups the exception to the rule.
Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
I'm talking about Semitic-speaking Ethiopians/Eritreans whom all have linguistic and genetic ties that go back as recent as the Askumite empire. They derive from the same population and are hence, the same people, genetically AND linguistically. They all spoke Geeze only several hundred years ago and belonged to the same kingdom. The Egyptian study I cited covers Tigre and Tigray groups and concludes that they are basically indistinguishable, both sharing maternal ancestry with southern Egyptians. Don't see why that is so complicated.
quote:Eritrea as a Nation State is older than Ethiopia
LMAO.. Seeing how Ethiopia/Abyssinia is more than 1,000 years old while Eritrea gained its independence from Ethiopia only 15 years ago leads me to believe that you need to debate another subject or go do some more research.
Posted by Madote (Member # 15212) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sundiata: Are you an idiot? Eritreans and Ethiopians are the same people, lol..
Yea, i'm the idiot, i guess i can't see the similarity between these "SAME PEOPLE", maybe other people on here may see it.
Rashaida Eritrean
Mursi Ethiopian
Oh, i get it, they are the same HUMANS...OK, koo
Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Madote:
quote:Originally posted by Sundiata: Are you an idiot? Eritreans and Ethiopians are the same people, lol..
Yea, i'm the idiot, i guess i can't see the similarity between these "SAME PEOPLE", maybe other people on here may see it.
Rashaida Eritrean
Mursi Ethiopian
Oh, i get it, they are the same HUMANS...OK, koo
I doubt that this random man represents the typical semitic-speaking Ethiopian, i specifically said Habeshat who were the focus of the genetic study I provided.
^Tigre woman (Eritrean)
^Tigrayan Ethiopians..
Now cut the random picture spam and read some useful data, like the abstracts and studies posted above.
Posted by Madote (Member # 15212) on :
quote:I'm talking about Semitic-speaking Ethiopians/Eritreans whom all have linguistic and genetic ties that lead back as recent as the Askumite empire. They derive from the same population and are hence, the same people. Don't see why that is so complicated.
Not all Semitic-Speaking People come from the same stock. It's like saying all English speaking people are the same. I don't think u need me to post a pic to prove this one to you.
It is complicated, the highlanders and lowlanders of Eritrea are said to be of Cushtic Beja stock (forget the mixing part), while the Amharas are of mainly (not all) Agew and Oromo stock and the Tigray (southern ones) are of agew, with slight Oromo stock, while the northern Tigrays is anyone's guess. Again, throw a little sabean blood in there and everyone looks mixed...
Before Eritrea got her independence from Ethiopia, to whom did it belong to and what was it called?
Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Madote: Oh, I;m an idiot?
Indeed.
quote:Originally posted by somebody who doesn't know what they're talking about: Eritrea as a Nation State is older than Ethiopia
quote:Eritrea is an ancient name, associated in the past with its Greek form Erythraía , and its derived Latin form Erythræa. In the past, Eritrea had given its name to the Red Sea, then called the Erythræan Sea. In 1991 the People's Liberation Front defeated the Ethiopian government. Eritrea officially celebrated its independence on May 24, 1993.
Posted by Madote (Member # 15212) on :
The problem with your genetic study is you have no genetic study of Eritreans! Even identical twins have different DNA, let alone different ethnic groups from another country. Simply put, you can't give people a guess and say it's true because the pear is similar to the apple!
And don't try to twist your own words, i quoted you and you said, "Eritreans and Ethiopians are the same people". Besides, the majority of Ethiopians are not Habeshas, let alone semitic speakers.
Posted by Madote (Member # 15212) on :
quote:after a long history of foreign rule
You answered my question. Eritrea was ruled by different empires, kingdoms and groups of people long before Abyssinia unified and started its conquest to become modern Ethiopia.
The Word FOREIGN means they are DIFFERENT from the people they rule, so in this debate is over because you unknowingly made urself look silly once omore by using a quote that is telling you the FOREIGN RULE OF ETHIOPIA OVER ERITREA ENDED.
Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Madote: [QB] The problem with your genetic study is you have no genetic study of Eritreans!
First of all, one of them did and I already pointed that out goofus. Secondly, Semitic-speaking Ethiopians and Eritreans as a population cluster are considered to be representative of each other, therefore they are working models for one another as well.
quote:Even identical twins have different DNA, let alone different ethnic groups from another country.
LOL.. What the hell. That is so redundant. We're talking population genetics here, identical twins have the exact same lineage and haplotype distribution, as they belong to the exact same population (same mother and father even), as do Eritreans and Afro-Asiatic speaking Ethiopians whom derive from the same populations that inhabited Askum.
quote: Simply put, you can't give people a guess and say it's true because the pear is similar to the apple!
This makes no sense and demonstrated above.
quote:And don't try to twist your own words, i quoted you and you said, "Eritreans and Ethiopians are the same people". Besides, the majority of Ethiopians are not Habeshas, let alone semitic speakers.
I know what I said as it concerned the Ethiopians sampled in the study i cited, whom were treated as monolithic for genetic purposes. The same Ethiopians who speak indigenous semitic languges and share common ancestry going back only a couple of centuries, a time debt that doesn't cause any type of noticable genetic differentiation. You really are clueless, lol..
quote:Originally posted by Madote: [QB]
quote:after a long history of foreign rule
You answered my question. Eritrea was ruled by different empires, kingdoms and groups of people long before Abyssinia unified and started its conquest to become modern Ethiopia.
Are you really that stupid?? Damn, that article was about Ethiopia and Eritrea only. Anyone who claims that Eritrea was a nation-state (the same Eritrea that wasn't a nation-state until 1993) is older than Ethiopia, is just a retard. The geographical region now called Eritrea has always been a part of Ethiopia until it gained independence from Ethiopia just recently. You need to read more than comic books.
Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Madote: [QB]
quote:after a long history of foreign rule
The Word FOREIGN means they are DIFFERENT from the people they rule
LOL, wtf?
Foreign - situated outside a place or country;
Eritreans considered themselves sovereign, so anyone outside of their territory post a declaration of independence is considered foreign by definition and according to common sense. says nothing at all about the PEOPLE BEING DIFFERENT, you impose nonsense and distort otherwise perfectly understandable English grammar. Fix your brain please.
quote:Not all Semitic-Speaking People come from the same stock
Straw man. The reason you've been wrong all along is because all Ethiopian and Eritrean semitic languages derive from Ethiopian Geeze among the same people who spoke that language during the Askimite empire, therefore, you lose. Look up the history of Tigre, Tigrayan, and Amharic languages and you'll soon feel as stupid as you look.
Posted by Madote (Member # 15212) on :
Throwing insults does not change the outcome of the debate, you're still backpeddling on many of your claims.
Eritrea became a nation state when the Italians came in 1890, Ethiopia became a nation sate after their victory at the battle of adwa in 1986, when the Italians recognized Ethiopia as a sovereign independent state, before that, its borders fluctuated, seeing how Abyssinia was expanding its borders through conquests and wars.
"considered representives of each other"? Says who? How can you or anyone state this with out any genetic testing on both parties? Why do you except facts that are based on assumptions and guesses? If a girl says you're the baby's daddy and she tells you her reasons why she believes this is because you're both light skinned and the baby is light skinned that's why she believes you're the father....it's the same idea you're throwing here buddy, you would demand for DNA testing...so don't assume we wont either
You're a funny dude tho, it's hard to take you serious at times. I'm still waiting for the "sike, just joking niggga" line from u
Posted by Madote (Member # 15212) on :
quote:The geographical region now called Eritrea has always been a part of Ethiopia until it gained independence from Ethiopia just recently.
"In 1770, the Scottish researcher James Bruce describes Hamasien (modern Eritrea) and Abyssinia (modern Ethiopia) as "different countries who are often fighting" (SUKE, p.25).
Time to backpeddle some more.
Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Madote: [QB] Throwing insults does not change the outcome of the debate,
Firstly, these are not insults, they are observations. Second, this isn't a debate. It really isn't.
quote: you're still backpeddling on many of your claims.
I've stayed consistent, u simply keep throwing straw men my way which I have little patience for.
quote:Eritrea became a nation state when the Italians came in 1890, Ethiopia became a nation sate after their victory at the battle of adwa in 1986, when [QUOTE]the Italians recognized Ethiopia as a sovereign independent state, before that, its borders fluctuated, seeing how Abyssinia was expanding its borders through conquests and wars.
The battle of Adwa was fought in modern Ethiopia, not modern Eritrea! And Ethiopia had already been a kingdom before that. Learn your history and Eritrea was not even independent of Ethiopia until 1993 READ), stop making up nonsense. Yes, the borders of Ethiopia fluctuated, but they always included modern day Eritrea!
quote:"considered representives of each other"? Says who?
Says the Egyptian study that you haven't read or can't access.
quote: How can you or anyone state this with out any genetic testing on both parties?
You're not paying attention. They tested both Tigre and Tigray and considered them to be the most closely related, having diverged more recently, both being very similar to southern Egyptians. You have the attention span of a rock.
quote: Why do you except facts that are based on assumptions and guesses?
They are actually based on linguistics, history and genetics.
quote:You're a funny dude tho, it's hard to take you serious at times. I'm still waiting for the "sike, just joking niggga" line from u
From your lingo I can see that you're nothing more than a hippe, why do I waste my time? READ fool. Look up the root of all of their languages, the history of both regions, and studies I've posted, then get back at me, or ask Yom (an Ethiopian) if he agrees with you.
Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Madote:
quote:The geographical region now called Eritrea has always been a part of Ethiopia until it gained independence from Ethiopia just recently.
"In 1770, the Scottish researcher James Bruce describes Hamasien (modern Eritrea) and Abyssinia (modern Ethiopia) as "different countries who are often fighting" (SUKE, p.25).
Time to backpeddle some more.
Backpeddle for what? Off some relativist statement?
quote:The boundaries of modern Eritrea and the entire region were established during the European colonial period between Italian, British and French colonialists
Also tell me why the early and Medieval history of Ethiopia and Eritrea are EXACTLY the same,including that of the kingdoms dominating the region/s? Also, why did they speak the same language and why were they represented by the same exact people (like I said)??
Why are u editing all the stuff after i corrected you? LOL, you're funny bro, just get some sleep.
Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
^^ I always edit my grammar or any misspeaks, though I haven't changed any content. You haven't corrected anything, nor have you addressed your contradiction that Eritrea is older than Ethiopia and was distinct before it was brought under European control... Keep dodging. You lose again. Posted by Madote (Member # 15212) on :
wikipedia sources are a joke to say the least. But nonetheless, i've clearly stated that EVERY African nation this very day has had their borders shaped by colonizers (including ethiopia), you stating this about Eritrea proves nothing.
If Eritrea was part of Ethiopia, that means Ethiopia was colonized too...would it not? Or you only want to claim the good but not the bad huh? Funny stuff indeed!
Anyways, i've debunked all your little ideas of Eritreans. There's no point in debating with fools, for a fool is better experienced and you clearly show it with your little temper tantrums and "i hope so" facts.
This is getting lame and boring, peace out son.
Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Madote: [QB] wikipedia sources are a joke to say the least.
You are a joke to say the most and this is an argument from ad hominem. You can't disprove the sources and a lot of that was written and sourced by yom who posted in this thread and is Ethiopian.
quote: But nonetheless, i've clearly stated that EVERY African nation this very day has had their borders shaped by colonizers (including ethiopia), you stating this about Eritrea proves nothing.
Well, that, coupled with the fact that Eritrea wasn't an independent nation until 1993 says a lot about the facts and also your education.
quote:If Eritrea was part of Ethiopia, that means Ethiopia was colonized too...would it not?
No, because they never conquered modern Ethiopia, they took over modern day Eritrea (while it was part of Ethiopia) for about 6 years until they tried to invade inner Ethiopia and were eventually ran out by the Ethiopian army in the BATTLE OF adwa, which you wrongly placed in modern day Eritrea because you don't know what you're talking about. LOL.. No way you can get out of this kid, if you can't see how stupid you look then you're dumber than I thought.
quote:Or you only want to claim the good but not the bad huh? Funny stuff indeed!
READ. I've explained above. You're so pathetic that I can't return the compliment either. There is nothing funny about ignorance.
quote:Anyways, i've debunked all your little ideas of Eritreans.
Hahahah, what? Let's see, according to you Eritrea is an older nation-state than Ethiopia, the battle of adwa was in Eritrea, and Ethiopia was colonized. Yep, you sure "debunked me" alright, lol..
quote:There's no point in debating with fools, for a fool is better experienced and you clearly show it with your little temper tantrums and "i hope so" facts.
glad you've finally looked in the mirror.
quote:This is getting lame and boring, peace out.
Good riddance.
Posted by Madote (Member # 15212) on :
Where in this quote do you see me saying adwa is in Eritrea? ITalians lost the battle of adwa and recognized Ethiopia as a result of the loss, where do you get this idea of me saying adwa is in Eritrea?
quote:Eritrea became a nation state when the Italians came in 1890, Ethiopia became a nation sate after their victory at the battle of adwa in 1986, when the Italians recognized Ethiopia as a sovereign independent state, before that, its borders fluctuated, seeing how Abyssinia was expanding its borders through conquests and wars.
Also, if Yom's Ethiopian (don't know don't care) and he's writing articles on wiki about Eritrea and Eritreans, do you think he's going to have a ballanced view of Eritrean-Ethiopian relations, more than non-Eritreans and Ethiopians? Seeing the bloody history and issues on historical point of views Eritreans and Abyssinians have, do you think I would take his work more seriously because he hails from Ethiopia, a nation that has been at war with Eritrea twice already? Are you serious? Do you enjoy being a weirdo?
Eritrea is older than Ethiopia as a nation-state and the oldest agricultural civilization living in the horn were found in Eritrea. You look like a complete fool trying to even debate this with me.
Posted by Madote (Member # 15212) on :
'Oldest' African settlement found in Eritrea
Farmers bred oxen 3,000 years ago, just like today The remains of what is thought to be the oldest settled agricultural community in Africa have been discovered on the outskirts of the Eritrean capital, Asmara, the United Nations has said.
According to experts, the sites could change the way the history of the Horn of Africa is viewed.
This is a very exciting find
Cultural official
Archaeologists using evidence collected during preliminary excavations have already pieced together a fascinating picture of life nearly 3,000 years ago.
The settlement's inhabitants lived in stone houses, ate cows and goats, drank beer, farmed fertile land and wore animal skins.
Tools for tanning and softening hides have been discovered, along with needles, stone implements for punching leather, and bronze buttons.
To conserve heat on the cool highland plateau, houses did not have any doors, they were entered through openings in the roof.
Treasure
For the same reason, according to archaeologists, homes appear to have shared walls.
Hundreds of tiny bulls' heads, carved from stone, and thought to have ritual significance, were found around the sites.
Gold earrings, bracelets and rings, copper and bronze daggers, and multiple-necked pottery jugs were also found in one excavation, which might have been a burial chamber.
The archaeological find has got in the way of a housing project
A cultural resource specialist with the World Bank, which is funding a survey of the area, said it was essential that local people were adequately informed about their cultural heritage so that they could make their own decisions about how to manage it.
"This is a very exciting find," she said.
"We hope these early projects will provide evidence that cultural assets are very significant and that they should be preserved and enhanced for the economic growth of the country," she added.
The sites are scattered across a large area of what is considered prime development land to the south and west of the city, much of it already earmarked for new housing.
Crucial evidence
Archaeologists from the University of Asmara are hoping to complete an urgent survey of the area to assess the extent of the find before any building work commences.
The project also plans to build an open-air museum on one of the sites, to provide information to the public and display items found there.
Experts believe the sites provide crucial new evidence that people lived in populated, settled farming communities in the Horn of Africa as early as 800 BC.
"This is one of the richest heritage areas in Africa," said Professor Peter Schmidt, a specialist in African archaeology and dean of the College of Arts and Social Sciences at the University of Asmara.
"It can be compared to Athens and Rome as it has excellent parallels to those places. There is a remarkable opportunity to use this as a centrepiece of national preservation," he added.
The potential for tourism revenue from such important prehistoric sites is considerable.
Last year, many tourists visited Ethiopia's ancient monuments at Aksum.
It is likely that the sites on the outskirts of Asmara, which contain remnants likely to predate the Aksumite period (of the first to the sixth centuries AD) by many centuries, could also attract foreign and domestic tourists.
But archaeologists fear that it may be too late to save some of the sites.
They are seeking funding to erect a fence around one excavation, which has been partly destroyed by bulldozers digging stone for road building.
Another potentially important site has already been broken up by new housing.
STOP EDITING YOUR POST AFTER I DEBUNKED YOUR ORGINAL STATMENTS FOO! THIS GUY KEEPS ADDING MORE TO OLDER POSTS I'VE DEBUNKED ALREADY AND LEAVES MORE QUESTIONS AND MAKES IT LOOK LIKE I COULDN'T ANSWER THEM BUT IN REALITY, HE EDITED THEM MUCH LATER, AFTER HIS ORGINAL QUESTIONS WERE CORRECTED.
Posted by Madote (Member # 15212) on :
Also, if Eritrea was part of Ethiopia and Eritrea was colonized, that means Ethiopia too is colonized, since it allowed it's own land to be colonized!
You can't eat your cake here sweatheart and expect to eat mines cause you're still hungry, live with reality.
You either swallow the bitter pill of colonization or don't ever claim Eritrea as being part of Ethiopia, you can't have it both ways son!
Posted by Madote (Member # 15212) on :
The irrational theories of some Ethiopians, claiming that Eritrea, should have stayed part of Ethiopia, on the basis of History is what it is; self-serving irrational claim and can’t stand any degree of serious scrutiny. Even if, for the sake of argument, the historicity of some time unity is accepted as a fact, it will not prove anything matching and standing equal and in par to the Eritrean peoples’ choice. If these Ethiopian unionists are speaking in the language of history and modern political logic, then what they are saying implies effectively that Sweden should claim Norway which was part of it until 1905, and it also calls for Germany to claim Austria and that Indonesia should claim the Phlippines, Singapore, and Malaysia as all were part of the great Malayan Empires and kingdoms before the arrival of the Portuguese, their logic implies also that Ghana should claim the whole of west Africa to be integrated to it as the entire area, once part of the great ancient Empire of Ghana; A claim for chaos to ascend throne.
Posted by Madote (Member # 15212) on :
"In 1770, the Scottish researcher James Bruce describes Hamasien (modern Eritrea) and Abyssinia (modern Ethiopia) as "different countries who are often fighting" (SUKE, p.25).
Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
LOL, what an obsessed troll you are. Stop talking in space, you're wrong, get over it. all of your points have been refuted and I won't waste my time any longer with an insecure wretch who doesn't know what he's talking about.
Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
For educational purposes, we'll try this one last time,this time with a more direct repetition of what I've been saying all along about why your argument is extremely misguided and why you're so utterly confused.
Eritrean and Ethiopian History up to Colonialism
quote:Eritrea lies along the Red Sea in the northernmost area of the region known as the Horn of Africa. Ethiopia, however, is landlocked and has no direct access to any sea ports. As neighbors, they share some of the oldest archaeological discoveries in the world. These discoveries lie in the region of Tigray, now a province of Ethiopia, and historically a territory in both Eritrea and Ethiopia. The famed skeleton of Lucy, the Australopithicus Aferensis, was in fact found in this region. Influence over the region was directed from the Tigray capital of Axum and trade was conducted with the Arabian Peninsula by way of a port city, now called Zula, in Eritrea.
In the 16th century, the Abyssinian Empire arose from Tigray and the whole of Eritrea and Ethiopia became subject to Abyssinian rule. Abyssinian rule of Eritrea was challenged at times, most notably by Ottoman and Egyptian powers, but generally speaking, Abyssinia ruled the whole of these regions for centuries. As indicated by this Rand McNally map from 1897, both Ethiopia and Eritrea were considered to be Abyssinian at the turn of the 20th century.
During the long reign of Abyssinia, religion became an important influence and divided the empire. The Eritrean and Ethiopian cultures split into Semitic/Christian in Ethiopia and Muslim in Eritrea. These divisions should not be oversimplified and it must be understood that no two regions were then, or are now, exclusive in their religious composition. Broadly speaking, the highlands of Eritrea were occupied by the Christian elements while the lowlands where inhabited by the Muslim populations. Ethiopia, however, is one of the oldest Christian civilizations and to this day has one of the oldest Jewish communities. In order to understand the current conflicts and allegiances in the region today, the religious divide must be considered.
Also look up Dm't and Askum.. The only thing I concede to being wrong about was that Eritrea is predominantly Christian, which I tripped up on even after Yom had corrected me. A bit of face-saving on my part I must admit and I was still wrong on that front. Though I can't emphasize enough that that point was insignificant and had nothing to do with what I was trying to get across so it was a distraction more than anything that threw me off my message. Point being, as demonstrated above, is this:
- You're wrong about Eritrea becoming a nation-state before Ethiopia
- You were wrong about where the battle of Adwa was fought (it was in modern Ethiopia as opposed to Eritrea)
- you were wrong about the two regions being distinct when they've always been intertwined prior to colonial rule (in Eritrea).
- You were wrong to distinguish them culturally from a historic standpoint when they'd belonged traditionally to the same group of people, speaking the same language, under the same culture and under the same kingdoms, under the the same population/ethnicity (Habeshat).
Which goes back the the original point of contention that as it concerns population genetics, one is representative of the other with the point of divergence being only a few hundred years. This applies not to all ethnicities in modern-day Ethiopia but to the ones examined in the study.
Posted by Madote (Member # 15212) on :
quote:Also look up Dm't and Askum.. The only thing I concede to being wrong about was that Eritrea is predominantly Christian, which I tripped up on even after Yom had corrected me. A bit of face-saving on my part I must admit and I was still wrong on that front. Though I can't emphasize enough that that point was insignificant and had nothing to do with what I was trying to get across so it was a distraction more than anything that threw me off my message. Point being, as demonstrated above, is this:
Why do you feel the need to tell me your errors in a debate? Coming clean for an error you yourself say isn't important just shows your talking for talking sake, you know, like that guy who keeps extending a conversation because he has nothing important to say on the first date.
With that said, this is the 3rd time you've brought this guy "yom" into this debate. Now, I don't know if he's your husband, friend, lover, online teacher or simply your token Ethiopian friend who told you all of Eritrea's history from his Ethiopian point of view. Either you hop off his tools or tell him to debate me because you certainly look up to him as some sort of online spirtual gudience. You already come off as a joke, since you feel throwing insults makes your false argument more true. Furthermore, it seems you know nothing of Eritrea but recent google searchs for this debate...for that, I will take the credit, because you're only now doing the research you should have done before opening your mouth and jumping the gun at your copy and past history of a nation you no nothing about.
Now, time to correct your errors like a good teacher shall once more.
quote:- You're wrong about Eritrea becoming a nation-state before Ethiopia
Ok, tell us, when did Ethiopia become a nation state? clearly you don't think saying "you're wrong" changes the reality on the ground or debunks me in anyway right?
quote:- You were wrong about where the battle of Adwa was fought (it was in modern Ethiopia as opposed to Eritrea)
LOOOL, You're a weirdo, i never stated adwa was in Eritrea, please show the readers the quote me stating this as so. (and don't edit your quote later son, i want to show the readers not only are you a complete idiot but a poorly visioned one at that!)
quote:- you were wrong about the two regions being distinct when they've always been intertwined prior to colonial rule (in Eritrea).
The Majority of Ethiopia's population and Eritreans have no historical ties with each other pre-forced federation and subsequent annexation that followed of Eritrea by Ethiopia. Again, you state I'm wrong, but don't give us what your idea of right is. You're an utter joke and I'm sorry i've invested so much in debating with you.
quote:
- You were wrong to distinguish them culturally from a historic standpoint when they'd belonged traditionally to the same group of people, speaking the same language, under the same culture and under the same kingdoms, under the the same population/ethnicity (Habeshat).
Distinguishing them cultrually? Are you serious? Do you not understand the differences between these ethnic groups or do you just like to bunch them up as "habeshats", a term that don't fit the bill since there were more than one migrations of Sabeans onto Eritrea. Bunching them as Habeshats is as dumb as bunching all spanish speaking people as one people with one orgin. You're a moron to the highest degree if you believe this.
Thanks for the laugh though, i should pay you for this comedy you're putting up.
Posted by Yonis2 (Member # 11348) on :
Madote are you an Eritrean?
Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Why do you feel the need to tell me your errors in a debate? Coming clean for an error you yourself say isn't important just shows your talking for talking sake, you know, like that guy who keeps extending a conversation because he has nothing important to say on the first date.
With that said, this is the 3rd time you've brought this guy "yom" into this debate. Now, I don't know if he's your husband, friend, lover, online teacher or simply your token Ethiopian friend who told you all of Eritrea's history from his Ethiopian point of view. Either you hop off his tools or tell him to debate me because you certainly look up to him as some sort of online spirtual gudience. You already come off as a joke, since you feel throwing insults makes your false argument more true. Furthermore, it seems you know nothing of Eritrea but recent google searchs for this debate...for that, I will take the credit, because you're only now doing the research you should have done before opening your mouth and jumping the gun at your copy and past history of a nation you no nothing about.
Now, time to correct your errors like a good teacher shall once more.
I'll say this one more time. THIS IS NOT A DEBATE, you are confused and don't have the slightest idea of what you're talking about which is why you talk in circles and put more emphasis on rhetoric (whether it be yours or mine) than cited academic facts. I acknowledged an error because that's a part of my integrity. You on the other hand, evade the realization that on every key issue you sound more and more like an pseudo-historian student of Graham Hancock than someone who is interested in African studies. Catching the said error had less to do with google research (unlike your picture spam about random cows and some random 18th century white guy with no citation) and more to do with going through past threads and recalling what I already knew but ignored. Capitalizing on my own admission is the best you can do and only reinforces your petty disposition, while you completely avoid most of the elementary mistakes YOU make that are CRUCIAL to proving your case. Yes, I consider Yom an authority on the matter and certainly not someone who says that Eritrea is an older nation-state than Ethiopia. lol. You spew some of the most ridiculous nonsense I've ever read on here and still don't have one source to support any of your mindless claims.
quote:Ok, tell us, when did Ethiopia become a nation state? clearly you don't think saying "you're wrong" changes the reality on the ground or debunks me in anyway right?
Exactly the level of ignorance I've alluded to. Modern Ethiopia is of direct lineage from Abyssinia which existed as a state before the time of the prophet Muhammad. In fact, the name was only changed to Ethiopia just recently by Haile Selassie. It was never conquered and has been the same intact state since the decline of Askum. Eritrea's borders were outlined by colonialists and didn't even have independence until 1993. Your Stubborn ignorance is amazing.
In fact:
quote:Ethiopia is Africa's oldest independent country. Apart from a five-year occupation by Mussolini's Italy, it has never been colonised.
quote:LOOOL, You're a weirdo, i never stated adwa was in Eritrea, please show the readers the quote me stating this as so. (and don't edit your quote later son, i want to show the readers not only are you a complete idiot but a poorly visioned one at that!)
The things you write are so unusual I have no idea sometimes how to interpret it. You didn't say that I admit, what you said was that Eritrea became a nation-state in 1890 and that Ethiopia became a nation state in 1986 at the battle of Adwa, when the battle of Adwa was actually in 1896 and it was a consequence of them invading Ethiopia. I'd assume that this is an even dumber statement and slip up that you won't be able to back track on. It was only a 6 year occupation and Ethiopia had already been an established nation-state before and definitely was after they won the battle.
quote:The Majority of Ethiopia's population and Eritreans have no historical ties with each other pre-forced federation and subsequent annexation that followed of Eritrea by Ethiopia. Again, you state I'm wrong, but don't give us what your idea of right is. You're an utter joke and I'm sorry i've invested so much in debating with you.
LOL!! What kind of historical revisionism is this? Can you read? You call me blind yet are the most non-attentive troll we've had here in a while.
Eritrean and Ethiopian History up to Colonialism
quote:Eritrea lies along the Red Sea in the northernmost area of the region known as the Horn of Africa. Ethiopia, however, is landlocked and has no direct access to any sea ports. As neighbors, they share some of the oldest archaeological discoveries in the world. These discoveries lie in the region of Tigray, now a province of Ethiopia, and historically a territory in both Eritrea and Ethiopia. The famed skeleton of Lucy, the Australopithicus Aferensis, was in fact found in this region. Influence over the region was directed from the Tigray capital of Axum and trade was conducted with the Arabian Peninsula by way of a port city, now called Zula, in Eritrea.
In the 16th century, the Abyssinian Empire arose from Tigray and the whole of Eritrea and Ethiopia became subject to Abyssinian rule. Abyssinian rule of Eritrea was challenged at times, most notably by Ottoman and Egyptian powers, but generally speaking, Abyssinia ruled the whole of these regions for centuries. As indicated by this Rand McNally map from 1897, both Ethiopia and Eritrea were considered to be Abyssinian at the turn of the 20th century.
During the long reign of Abyssinia, religion became an important influence and divided the empire. The Eritrean and Ethiopian cultures split into Semitic/Christian in Ethiopia and Muslim in Eritrea. These divisions should not be oversimplified and it must be understood that no two regions were then, or are now, exclusive in their religious composition. Broadly speaking, the highlands of Eritrea were occupied by the Christian elements while the lowlands where inhabited by the Muslim populations. Ethiopia, however, is one of the oldest Christian civilizations and to this day has one of the oldest Jewish communities. In order to understand the current conflicts and allegiances in the region today, the religious divide must be considered.
Also look up Dm't and Askum..
LOL, you're being beaten to death here... You are such a joke. It's too easy to debunk you on every front..
quote:Distinguishing them cultrually? Are you serious? Do you not understand the differences between these ethnic groups or do you just like to bunch them up as "habeshats", a term that don't fit the bill since there were more than one migrations of Sabeans onto Eritrea. Bunching them as Habeshats is as dumb as bunching all spanish speaking people as one people with one orgin. You're a moron to the highest degree if you believe this.
Thanks for the laugh though, i should pay you for this comedy you're putting up.
*sign*
You have no evidence whatsoever of ANY mass Sabean migration into Eritrea first of all and I will again point you to this thread:
^^Even though I know it pains you to read I still recommend that you do. Also, Habeshat was a collective term used to describe one group of people near the Tigray region in both Eritrea and northern Ethiopia who spoke the same language (Geeze). We're talking about indigenous northeast Africans from the same region, speaking the same dialect, under the same kingdom. Your Spanish analogy is beyond stupid. Get a life and READ something. lol.. Your amusement borders psychosis. I'm not sure how to take you seriously OR laugh at you, as your stupidity is too confusing. So confusing that I get lost in what I'm refuting.
Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: Madote are you an Eritrean?
Ha! I hope this is a rhetorical question.
Posted by Yonis2 (Member # 11348) on :
quote:Sundiata wrote: became a nation state in 1986 at the battle of Adwa, when the battle of Adwa was actually in 1896 and it was a consequence of them invading Ethiopia.
Com'n anyone can see that was a typo, it's redicoulas to use such honest mistake as evidence of not knowing the subject. He just happened to type the 9 before the 8.
Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
^Yonis, start addressing everything else or get a life, the main point is that Eritrea is not older than Ethiopia and semitic-speakers in both regions diverged culturally just recently. Stop parsing quotes, there is rhetoric on both sides, read between the lines loser. Honest mistake or not, it's hypocritical to point out me capitalizing on his when he does the same thing, while it's just plain petty to comment while ignoring the content of the entire so-called discussion. Get a life Yonis and stop being a distraction..
This is exactly why very few people like you.. You're a crab.
Posted by Yonis2 (Member # 11348) on :
He's more right than you, there is alot of errors in your posts that i don't feel like bothering to comment on. Also your "Adwa located in eritrea" is another typical distraction by you from the main points he presented. I never saw him claim that, you pulled it out of somewhere god knows where.
Also Ethiopian modern borders are not equall to the Axumite borders as you claimed.
Edit: One more thing it was me who corrected you before that Tigre were mostly muslims and not Yom, but being so hyperventilated as you are you didn't even noticed that Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Also one more thing Ethiopian modern borders are not equall to the Axumite borders as you claimed
Yonis, quote where I said this and go over point for point about what he's right about that I'm wrong about. Talk about distractions, this is just a lie. I mentioned Askum because it extended over both modern Ethiopia AND Eritrea and when he asked me how old Ethiopia is I mentioned early Abyssinia. Stop misrepresenting the crux of my position, boy.
You refuse to "comment on" anything because you're lazy and are just posting in spite and delineating from the main premise that Ethiopia is older than Eritrea as a nation-state and that semitic-speaking Ethiopians from the Tigray region (including Amhara) and Eritreans culturally diverged only recently as a population. Where's the error in that and how is his position right and that one wrong? If you can't answer, then your credibility is in question (not that it hasn't always been via the self-hating Somali darod Arab wanna-be).
Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:One more thing it was me who corrected you before that Tigre were mostly muslims and not Yom, but being so hyperventilated as you are you didn't even noticed that
I admitted to moving too fast (or as you put it, "hyperventilating") and I should have known that it was you who imposed such a petty distraction while nit picking points of refutation. If this is the only error you're alluding to though (one I admitted to making), then you surely have a sad case to work with. It had little to do with the point of contention. Your little drive-by critiques with no beef in between won't work.
Posted by Yonis2 (Member # 11348) on :
Ethiopia as a nation state is a modern construction just like all nation sates in africa, middle-east and europe. But if we talk about kingdoms then Eritrea is much older than Ethiopia, the Dm't kingdom was located in Eritrea not Ethiopia. And the people who are called Habesha are not necesserily all closely more related than none habesha in their vicinity. Linguistically the Ge'ez language arose in Eritrea and spread into Tigray region where Axum was centered and later Amhara region where the medevil Ethiopian dynasties were centered. Linguistically and culturally it's all an offshoot of Eritrea but genetically the Amhara are not necesserilly more related to the Habesha of Eritrea than they are to their non-habesha neighbours like Agew or highland oromos. It's all a matter of perception. Habeshaness was not exclusive all these people who adopted christianity and spoke the habesha languages were basically habesha, that's why features among habesha are so diverse.
Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Madote: 'Oldest' African settlement found in Eritrea
Farmers bred oxen 3,000 years ago, just like today The remains of what is thought to be the oldest settled agricultural community in Africa have been discovered on the outskirts of the Eritrean capital, Asmara, the United Nations has said.
According to experts, the sites could change the way the history of the Horn of Africa is viewed.
This is a very exciting find
Cultural official
Archaeologists using evidence collected during preliminary excavations have already pieced together a fascinating picture of life nearly 3,000 years ago.
The settlement's inhabitants lived in stone houses, ate cows and goats, drank beer, farmed fertile land and wore animal skins.
Tools for tanning and softening hides have been discovered, along with needles, stone implements for punching leather, and bronze buttons.
To conserve heat on the cool highland plateau, houses did not have any doors, they were entered through openings in the roof.
Treasure
For the same reason, according to archaeologists, homes appear to have shared walls.
Hundreds of tiny bulls' heads, carved from stone, and thought to have ritual significance, were found around the sites.
Gold earrings, bracelets and rings, copper and bronze daggers, and multiple-necked pottery jugs were also found in one excavation, which might have been a burial chamber.
The archaeological find has got in the way of a housing project
A cultural resource specialist with the World Bank, which is funding a survey of the area, said it was essential that local people were adequately informed about their cultural heritage so that they could make their own decisions about how to manage it.
"This is a very exciting find," she said.
"We hope these early projects will provide evidence that cultural assets are very significant and that they should be preserved and enhanced for the economic growth of the country," she added.
The sites are scattered across a large area of what is considered prime development land to the south and west of the city, much of it already earmarked for new housing.
Crucial evidence
Archaeologists from the University of Asmara are hoping to complete an urgent survey of the area to assess the extent of the find before any building work commences.
The project also plans to build an open-air museum on one of the sites, to provide information to the public and display items found there.
Experts believe the sites provide crucial new evidence that people lived in populated, settled farming communities in the Horn of Africa as early as 800 BC.
"This is one of the richest heritage areas in Africa," said Professor Peter Schmidt, a specialist in African archaeology and dean of the College of Arts and Social Sciences at the University of Asmara.
"It can be compared to Athens and Rome as it has excellent parallels to those places. There is a remarkable opportunity to use this as a centrepiece of national preservation," he added.
The potential for tourism revenue from such important prehistoric sites is considerable.
Last year, many tourists visited Ethiopia's ancient monuments at Aksum.
It is likely that the sites on the outskirts of Asmara, which contain remnants likely to predate the Aksumite period (of the first to the sixth centuries AD) by many centuries, could also attract foreign and domestic tourists.
But archaeologists fear that it may be too late to save some of the sites.
They are seeking funding to erect a fence around one excavation, which has been partly destroyed by bulldozers digging stone for road building.
Another potentially important site has already been broken up by new housing.
Learn the difference between a nation-state and a pre-historic settlement you imbecile. Your straw man tactics will help you fit in just fine with the semantical rantings of your new friend, Yonis who gets exposed for the American-hating, biased Arab anus kissing loser that he is. Posted by Yonis2 (Member # 11348) on :
Why can't you fight against the satanic need of being rude and obnoxious, you've been throwing insults all over this thread with no provoication whatsoever. If you can't discuss without insulting then you shouldn't be here.
Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: Ethiopia as a nation state is a modern construction just like all nation sates in africa, middle-east and europe.
Nice spin but you're sadly misguided in your English definition of a nation-state.
Nation-state a sovereign state whose citizens or subjects are relatively homogeneous in factors such as language or common descent.
Modern Ethiopia is the same nation-state as medieval and pre medieval abyssinia. The only thing it has undergone is a slight redefinition of its borders and an official name change.
quote:But if we talk about kingdoms then Eritrea is much older than Ethiopia, the Dm't kingdom was located in Eritrea not Ethiopia.
Yonis the hypocrite. Coming from the same person who dismissed Askum because its borders were different than modern day Ethiopia is trying to create a continuity between an ancient kingdom and a modern state created by colonialists simply because it happened to fall with in the same region. More distractions and no errors acknowledged. Try again. I knew you were bluffing.
quote:And the people who are called Habesha are not necesserily all closely more related than none habesha in their vicinity. Linguistically the Ge'ez language arose in Eritrea and spread into Tigray region where Axum was centered and later Amhara region where the medevil Ethiopian dynasties were centered. Linguistically and culturally it's all an offshoot of Eritrea but genetically the Amhara are not necesserilly more related to the Habesha of Eritrea than they are to their non-habesha neighbours like Agew or highland oromos. It's all a matter of perception
The official language of Askum was Geez whose capital was in Ethiopia. By your logic, you're suggesting that the people who resided in modern day eritrea somehow "invaded" the Tigray region of Ethiopia as if it wasn't already an extension of their homeland. You suffer from the same problem as your new roommate in pretending that Eritrea existed in that time period. Surely they all descended from the same cultural complexes that spanned over the whole general region and surely you make no sense. And according to the study on the sedentary population in Egypt, Amhara are closest genetically to the Tigray who in turn are closest to the Tigre. Try again. called your bluff and got what I expected.
Posted by Yonis2 (Member # 11348) on :
Amhara are a confederation of Oromo, sidama, Agew and Tigray. Haile sellassie himself was half oromo, Menelik II was half amhara(the confederation of above tribes) and some south estern slave woman. Habesha people of ethiopia are although comprised of basic cushitic stock are still not homogenous in the sense as other ethnicities are in the horn region. You can't come and tell me that you could walk today in Ethiopia and point out an Habesha and a non-Habesha. They are all different groups joined together through the worship of the orthodox church and speach of the south semetic languages.
Posted by Madote (Member # 15212) on :
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: Why can't you fight against the satanic need of being rude and obnoxious, you've been throwing insults all over this thread with no provoication whatsoever. If you can't discuss without insulting then you shouldn't be here.
I think its simply best to ignore him.
To answer you question, yes, I am Eritrean.
Madote is an Island off the Eritrean coastline.
Something is up though, you knew the differences between Tigre, Tigrinya and Tigrays, most Ethiopians can't do that (simple experience, no sources for this one), so I suspect you're either North Eastern Sudanese or Somali...I'm gonna go with Somali on this one (my apologies if wrong)
Posted by Yonis2 (Member # 11348) on :
quote:Nice spin but you sadly misguided in your English definition of a nation-state.
Nation-state a sovereign state whose citizens or subjects are relatively homogeneous in factors such as language or common descent.
Modern Ethiopia is the same nation-state as medieval and pre medieval abyssinia. The only thing it has undergone is a slight redefinition of its borders and an official name change.
You are the one who said Ethiopia is older than Eritrea, prove it. Modern borders did not exist in ancient times, Axum lies today just next to the border of Eritrea and runned it's influence to other parts of highland ethiopia and other medevil Ethiopian strongholds, it wasn't the other way around.
Posted by Yonis2 (Member # 11348) on :
quote:Madote wrote: Something is up though, you knew the differences between Tigre, Tigrinya and Tigrays, most Ethiopians can't do that (simple experience, no sources for this one), so I suspect you're either North Eastern Sudanese or Somali...I'm gonna go with Somali on this one (my apologies if wrong)
Yes i i'm, i suspected you were an eritrean but sundiata seems to have thought of you as some sort of racist white european, maybe that's why he's so aggressive.
Posted by Madote (Member # 15212) on :
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2:
quote:Madote wrote: Something is up though, you knew the differences between Tigre, Tigrinya and Tigrays, most Ethiopians can't do that (simple experience, no sources for this one), so I suspect you're either North Eastern Sudanese or Somali...I'm gonna go with Somali on this one (my apologies if wrong)
Yes i i'm, i suspected you were an eritrean but sundiata seems to have thought of you as some sort of racist white european, maybe that's why he's so aggressive.
Selam bro.
Forget this futo face, he got some anger issues. I thought he was Ethiopian at first but they wouldn't even claim half the stuff his Ethiocentric view is claiming.
Posted by Madote (Member # 15212) on :
"The territories north of the Merab Melash (Modern Eritrea) do not belong to nor are under my rule. I am the Emperor of Abysinnia. The lands referred to as Eritrea is not peopled by Abysinnians, they are Adals , Bejas, and Tigres. Abysinnia will defend her territories but it will not fight for foreign lands of which Eritrea is to my knowledge."
—Emperor Menelik II, 1889
So if the very emperor of Abysinnia told you Eritrea is not and was not part of Abysinnia and is not populated by Abysinnians, then why are you coming in here stating such?
Posted by Alive-(What Box) (Member # 10819) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sundiata:
Your straw man tactics will help you fit in just fine with the semantical rantings of your new friend, Yonis who gets exposed for the American-hating, biased Arab [**** sucking] loser that he is.
Well, I would have put that, but what you put works just fine I suppose.
To any newbies it may seem that someone is getting picked on, but if you'd read that person's past posts you'd not only see why but think he gets off too easy.
Posted by Madote (Member # 15212) on :
quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box):
quote:Originally posted by Sundiata:
Your straw man tactics will help you fit in just fine with the semantical rantings of your new friend, Yonis who gets exposed for the American-hating, biased Arab [**** sucking] loser that he is.
Well, I would have put that, but what you put works just fine I suppose.
To any newbies it may seem that someone is getting picked on, but if you'd read that person's past posts you'd not only see why but think he gets off too easy.
Who gets off too easy? Yonis or sundiata? From my newbie point of view, sundiata should be put in anger management classes.
Posted by Yonis2 (Member # 11348) on :
Don't mind what-box, he's known as the "forum butler", his only function in this forum is to repeat what others have said (with his own nonsensical twist ofcourse) or continue catering and defending others opinion ( since he never has his own). He's an ideal butler, i would have payed him twice the market salary for his service if i could afford one.
Posted by Yonis2 (Member # 11348) on :
quote:Originally posted by Madote: "The territories north of the Merab Melash (Modern Eritrea) do not belong to nor are under my rule. I am the Emperor of Abysinnia. The lands referred to as Eritrea is not peopled by Abysinnians, they are Adals , Bejas, and Tigres. Abysinnia will defend her territories but it will not fight for foreign lands of which Eritrea is to my knowledge."
—Emperor Menelik II, 1889
So if the very emperor of Abysinnia told you Eritrea is not and was not part of Abysinnia and is not populated by Abysinnians, then why are you coming in here stating such?
Very interesting, never seen this before.
I suppose he meant Afar/Danakil with "Adals"?
Posted by Madote (Member # 15212) on :
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2:
quote:Originally posted by Madote: "The territories north of the Merab Melash (Modern Eritrea) do not belong to nor are under my rule. I am the Emperor of Abysinnia. The lands referred to as Eritrea is not peopled by Abysinnians, they are Adals , Bejas, and Tigres. Abysinnia will defend her territories but it will not fight for foreign lands of which Eritrea is to my knowledge."
—Emperor Menelik II, 1889
So if the very emperor of Abysinnia told you Eritrea is not and was not part of Abysinnia and is not populated by Abysinnians, then why are you coming in here stating such?
Very interesting, never seen this before.
I suppose he meant Afar/Danakil with "Adals"?
Yup, you got that right about Adals. The funny thing is, a few years later, Afar region would be conquested by his wars of invasion, along with Oromia and southern countries, which leads to Abysinnia's death and subsquent birth of "Ethiopia".
Posted by Ebony Allen (Member # 12771) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wolofi: They are so light skinned what are they mixed with?
You know damn well that they aren't mixed.
Posted by astenb (Member # 14524) on :
What is the difference between Hutu and Tutsi? LOL
Posted by Madote (Member # 15212) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ebony Allen:
quote:Originally posted by Wolofi: They are so light skinned what are they mixed with?
You know damn well that they aren't mixed.
I think it would be a flat out lie to say Eritreans and most horn of Africans are not mixed. The mixing that took place with the people of arabian peninsula was not a one way street, it went both ways, as Edward Keall states.
"during the late 3rd millennium BC, in response to a drying climate, people were on the move. Some settled on Dahlak island. The people who settled in al-Midamman **crossed the Red Sea and settled in the Tihama** where they found a window of opportunity for life as result of the **massive flooding that was emanating from the highlands**, from a landscape out of control. When checks and balances were put in place in the highlands, as part of the landscape stabilisation for which Yemen became synonymous, the people at the coast were forced to move on. Groups may have found their way into the Jawf, and the Hadramawt. They retained some of their specific lithic technology, but generally otherwise **became integrated** with the rest of the South Arabian populations. — Edward Keall
black, white or hutu power aside, no need to edit history to get back at the same people who put you down because of your African look. Even though our forefathers mixed, we today are just as African as the rest. Most Blacks in the states have white bloodline mixing, it still does not take away their blackness, so the case for the horn of Africans is the same.
Posted by Madote (Member # 15212) on :
quote:Originally posted by astenb: What is the difference between Hutu and Tutsi? LOL
If you're implying Eritreans (all 9 different ethnic groups of them, who are as different from one another, let alone being different from Ethiopians/Sudanese or whomever) are some how comparable to two ethnic groups from rwanda story, while fully ignoring how many different ethnic groups both these two nations have is indeed laughable.
Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Madote:
quote:Originally posted by Ebony Allen:
quote:Originally posted by Wolofi: They are so light skinned what are they mixed with?
You know damn well that they aren't mixed.
I think it would be a flat out lie to say Eritreans and most horn of Africans are not mixed. The mixing that took place with the people of arabian peninsula was not a one way street, it went both ways, as Edward Keall states.
"during the late 3rd millennium BC, in response to a drying climate, people were on the move. Some settled on Dahlak island. The people who settled in al-Midamman **crossed the Red Sea and settled in the Tihama** where they found a window of opportunity for life as result of the **massive flooding that was emanating from the highlands**, from a landscape out of control. When checks and balances were put in place in the highlands, as part of the landscape stabilisation for which Yemen became synonymous, the people at the coast were forced to move on. Groups may have found their way into the Jawf, and the Hadramawt. They retained some of their specific lithic technology, but generally otherwise **became integrated** with the rest of the South Arabian populations. — Edward Keall
black, white or hutu power aside, no need to edit history to get back at the same people who put you down because of your African look. Even though our forefathers mixed, we today are just as African as the rest. Most Blacks in the states have white bloodline mixing, it still does not take away their blackness, so the case for the horn of Africans is the same.
This says nothing about anybody being mixed or any mass migration into Eritrea, stop pretending that it does and learn how to read (where you've shown a lack of capability).
Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
As a matter of fact:
Ethiopia’s Historic Ties with Yemen
By Richard Pankhurst
Ethiopia and Yemen, two historic countries on either side of the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden, have been in contact since almost the dawn of time. This is scarcely surprising. The intervening strip of sea between South Arabia and the Ethiopian Horn of Africa is at its closest little more than fifty miles wide, and is believed ten thousand years ago to have been only eleven miles wide. This narrow stretch of water could be crossed, throughout the historic period, by the simplest of vessels, including rafts, within little more than a day.
The highlands of the Yemeni and Ethiopian regions, as the archaeologist David Phillipson notes, have “much in common physically and environmentally”. They form part of a wide region which, Walter Raunig observes, has “not only very close geographical, climatic, zoological and botanical connections”, but also “cultural links [which] have always been equally, at times exceptionally strong”.
The Queen of Sheba
The antiquity of Ethiopian and Yemeni history is apparent from the fact that traditions in both countries go back twelve centuries to the time of the renowned Queen of Sheba. It is not the object of this article to examine her life, or to enter into the debate as to whether she was the ruler of Ethiopia or Yemen, or whether her government, as is often suggested, extended over both lands. It is sufficient to note that traditions associated with her are common to both, and point to the existence of an at least partially shared culture, dating back to early antiquity.
The Habashat, and the Origins of Ethiopian Civilisation
An intimate relationship between Ethiopia and Yemen in ancient times has also been postulated from the fact that several place and clan names, as well as inscriptions in the South Arabian language Sabaean, are found in both countries.
The existence of shared names on either side of the Red Sea caused the Italian scholar Carlo Conti Rossini to postulate, however somewhat simplistically, that the very name of Abyssinia was of Yemeni origin. The word is generally believed to be derived from the name Habashat, used to designate a people which lived in the north of historic Ethiopia, in what are now the highlands of part of Eritrea and Tigray.
Land on both sides of the Red Sea, according to the ancient geographer Ptolemy (AD 150)
Conti Rossini assumed that the Habashat actually originated in Yemen, and later established themselves, as colonists, on the Ethiopian side of the Red Sea, where, he believed, they introduced their name. It was his belief, furthermore, that the South Arabian language, and writing, represented the origin and basis of the Ethiopian tongue and script Ge‘ez.
These suppositions were once widely accepted. The British Arabist Spencer Trimingham for example wrote, in 1952, that the Habashat, or “agriculturalist mountaineers” of Yemen, faced with population pressure, and the failure of their irrigation system, crossed the intervening sea, and, after leaving the “inhospitable coastal zone” of Ethiopia, “found a country [in the Ethiopian interior] which possessed the same climate and vegetation as their own land”. The Habashat, he claims, thereupon “assumed a predominance over all the other tribes, and its chief took the title of negus nagasti (chief of chiefs)”. As a result, “the kingdom of Habashat consolidated itself about the third century B.C., when its rule extended over the plateau region of Eritrea and northern Tigrai”.
“Settlers and Colonizers”
Elaborating on this supposed migration, Trimingham claimed that the Yemeni migrants “came as settlers and colonizers”, “brought their regional names with them”, settled in the plateau regions “most suitable for agriculture”, and “brought the fully developed civilization of the Sabaeans”. The Yemenis, he claims, “introduced the use of metals, certain domestic animals, new plants, advanced systems of irrigation and agriculture, new forms of communal organization, and the art of writing”.
Conti Rossini’s thesis, which was based largely on conjecture, was, however, subsequently undermined by the work of a number of other scholars approaching the question from different disciplines and interests. One of the first of these scholars was Joseph Greenberg, whose Studies in African Linguistic Classification, appeared in 1955. In it he argued that the Semitic languages, found on both sides of the Red Sea, were in no way unique to the region, but formed part of a very much wider Afroasiatic language family scattered over much of Africa, as far as Chad in the west.
Jacqueline Pirenne
In the following year, 1956, Jacqueline Pirenne, a scholar of early Arabian history, drastically revised South Arabian chronology. Her new dating was significant to the question of Ethiopian origins, for it indicated that Sabaean immigrants to Ethiopia did not live in Ethiopia for centuries, as Conti Rossini had postulated, but only for no more than a few decades.
Six years later, in 1962, the Dutch linguist A.J. Drewes, published his important Inscriptions ie l’Ethiopie antique. It revealed the existence in Ethiopia of Ge‘ez graffiti, and other inscriptions, which were quite as old as the South Arabian inscriptions in Ethiopia. This discovery showed that Conti Rossini had been mistaken in assuming that Sabaean inscriptions in the country represented the prototype from which Ge‘ez had later developed.
In the following decade the Italian archaeologist Rodolfo Fattovich, working in Nubia, unearthed ancient pottery virtually identical to that which had been produced in Ethiopia prior to the founding of Aksum. This evidence suggested that the early material culture of Aksum was of essentially African origin, and had thus developed entirely independently of South Arabian immigration.
Roger Schneider
This thesis was further spelt out, in the following year, by the epigraphist Roger Schneider. Emphasising the entirely unproven character of Conti Rossini’s suppositions, he pointed out for example that the people of northern Ethiopia, living as they did in a rocky environment, did not have to wait for the arrival of the Sabaeans to erect houses built of stone. He argued further that Sabaeans who came to Ethiopia “did not arrive in a cultural vacuum”, but that, on the contrary, a significant Ethiopian state, people, and language had existed well before their advent. He contended further that Sabaean settlement was restricted to a few localities, and did not impinge greatly on Northern Ethiopia as a whole.
Schneider’s final conclusion was that similarities between South Arabian and Ethiopian civilization had in fact existed long before the coming to Ethiopia of the Sabaeans.
These and other arguments in support of Ethiopian origins independent of South Arabia were subsequently supported by other scholars, among them three linguists, the Ethiopian Abraham Demoz, the American Grover Hudson, and the Englishman David Appleyard, at a Conference on Ethiopian Origins, organised by the present writer at the School of Oriental and African Studies, in June 1978.
Standing Conti Rossini on his Head
The result of such convergent investigations by scholars working in different fields was that Jacqueline Pirenne, basing herself on the area’s material culture, as well as on linguistic and paleographic data, stood Conti Rossini’s thesis on its head. She argued that migration was “not from Yemen to Ethiopia, but rather in the opposite direction: from Ethiopia to Yemen”.
Whatever the direction, dating, and details of such migration, there can be no denying that northern Ethiopia and Yemen, in the half millennium or so prior to the Christian era, shared a related civilisation, or civilisations. This is evident from the at least limited use in Ethiopia of the Sabaean language and script, as found on ancient Aksumite inscriptions and coins, and an apparently identical religion. The latter centred on the worship of the sun and moon, and the local god Almaqah. The logo of the sun and moon, used at that time in Yemen, appears for example on an ancient Aksumite obelisk at Matara, as well as on virtually all pre-Christian Aksum coins, which began to be struck in the first century A.D. Reference to Almaqah is likewise to be seen on many Sabaean inscriptions on both sides of the Red Sea.
Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box):
quote:Originally posted by Sundiata:
Your straw man tactics will help you fit in just fine with the semantical rantings of your new friend, Yonis who gets exposed for the American-hating, biased Arab [**** sucking] loser that he is.
Well, I would have put that, but what you put works just fine I suppose.
To any newbies it may seem that someone is getting picked on, but if you'd read that person's past posts you'd not only see why but think he gets off too easy.
Indeed..
Posted by Madote (Member # 15212) on :
“A second phase of early recorded Eritrean history starts at 700-800 B.C. with the migration of Sabeans from Yemen, across the Red Sea. At the time, the Beja people, from Eastern part of Sudan had already settled in Eritrea, pushing the original settlers, the Baria (Nara) and Baza (Kunama) to the southwestern corner of present-day Eritrea. The Yemeni Immigrants, known as the Habeshat and Ageazians, were the “Huguenots” of the south Arabian civilizations - masons, metalworkers and artisans, who fled the persecution of the Warlords of the Sabean Kingdom by migrating to Eritrea.” -- Lionel Cliffe
And ANY historical ties Ethiopia wants to claim with yemen needs to take a back seat because they are a landlocked nation.
also, Queen of Sheba and King solomon hogwash and the dynasty of solomon bloodline in Ethiopia is a fairy tale, here's some sources to discredit this claim. To this day, not a single evidence shows King solomon or Queen of Sheba ever existed as real people.
Speaking about the genesis of "Kebra_Negest and Yukuno-Amlak," Mr Marcus said,
"As an usurper of power from the Zagwe Dynasty, the new monarch, Yukuno Amlak, encountered considerable resistance, and, in order to win over Tigray with its many Aksumite tradition, he and his supporters began to circulate a fable about his decent from Kong Solomon and Makeda, Queen of Shaba, and their son Emperor Menelik-I, a genealogy that, of course, gave him traditional legitimacy and provided him the continuity so honored in Ethiopian's subsequent national history." (See "A History of Ethiopia," page 16)
Speaking about the "Kebra_Negest," itself, Mr Marcus asserted in unmistakable terms the falsity of the document by saying, among other things, that
"It is a pastiche of legends conflated early in the fourteenth century by six Tigrayan scribes. Yishak, the chief compiler, claimed that he and his colleagues were merely translating an Arabic version of a Coptic work into Ge'ez. In fact his team blended local and regional oral traditions and style and substance derived from the Old and the New Testament, various apocryphal texts, Jews and Islamic commentaries, and Patristic writings. The Kebra_Negest's primer goal was to legitimize the ascendancy of Emperor Yukuno_Amlak and the 'restored' Solomonic line. Most of the book is therefore purposely devoted to the parentage of Emperor Menelik-I." (See page 17)
Historian Edward Ullendorff, too, has spoken at a great length about the source material of the "Kebra Negest" writing. Ullendrof who is through and through admirer of "Haile Sellassie & Greater Ethiopia", who immortally dedicated his book (the Ethiopians) to "Haile Sellassie" even writing it in Amharic, and who translated Haile Sellassie's autobiography (Hiwettie'Na Ye'Ethiopia Ermiga - My Life and Ethiopia Progress) from Amharic to English, this man can not be accused for misrepresentation. And yet here is what he said about the "Kebra Negest" in his book, "The Ethiopians."
With a solemn assertion and word of force a British historian can summon, Mr. Ullendorff thundered by saying that
"the historical fiction of uninterrupted line of Kings descended from Menelik-I, the son of King Solomon and Queen Sheba, has very deep roots in Ethiopia and must be one of the most powerful and influential sagas anywhere in the world." Added Mr Ullendorff, "the historical kernel of this legend no doubt derives from the identification of the Ethiopian dynasty with Hebraic-Jewish elements in the Abyssinian past and their insistence on the Semitic, or at least Semitized, ethnic relationship." (See page 61) Continuing on the same line, Mr. Ullendrof went on to say that
"the Kebra Negest has as its 'piece de resistance' the legend of the Queen Sheba (based on the Bible's narrative in I-Kings 10:1-13 and liberally amplified and embellished), how she visited King Solomon, accepted his religion, bore him a son (Menelik-I), and how the son visited his father and abducted the Arc of the Covenant, which was taken to Aksum, the new Zion. Apart from numerous quotations and paraphrase from the Old and the New Testament, we find generous borrowing from apocryphal literature, the Book of Enoch, the Book of the Pearl, from christological and patristic writing in Coptic, Syriac, Arabic, and Greek, from the testamentum Adami, Rabbinical literature as well as the Koran. The legend of Solomon and Queen Sheba has had a great vague in many parts of ancient East. Details vary, especially the narrative of the King's seduction of the Queen, but all the principal ingredients can be found in the Targum Sheni of Esther or the Alphabet of Ben Sira, the Koran (Surah XXVII, 15-45), and many other sources. In fact, the main story must have had a very long period of gestation in Ethiopia and elsewhere and have possessed all the elements of a gigantic conflation of cycles of legends and tales. When it was committed to writing, early in the fourteenth century. Its purpose no doubt was to lend support to the claims and aspirations of the recently established Solomonic dynasty, its author, the Nubra'ed Yessaq of Aksum and his five helping scribes, were thus mainly redactors and interpreters of material which had long been known, but had not until then found a coordinating hand, an expository mind, and a great national need" such as Yukuna Amlak's legitimization. (See page 138)
Finally Mr. Ullendorff closed his commentary by saying that "The Kebra Negest" is indeed a "literary work" and a good fiction that it is but as the
"Old Testament was to the Hebrews or the Koran is to the Arabs, it is the repository of Ethiopia national and religious feeling, perhaps the truest and the most genuine expression of the Abyssinian Christianity." (See page 139)
Posted by Yonis2 (Member # 11348) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sundiata: As a matter of fact:
Ethiopia’s Historic Ties with Yemen
By Richard Pankhurst
Ethiopia and Yemen, two historic countries on either side of the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden, have been in contact since almost the dawn of time. This is scarcely surprising. The intervening strip of sea between South Arabia and the Ethiopian Horn of Africa is at its closest little more than fifty miles wide, and is believed ten thousand years ago to have been only eleven miles wide. This narrow stretch of water could be crossed, throughout the historic period, by the simplest of vessels, including rafts, within little more than a day.
The highlands of the Yemeni and Ethiopian regions, as the archaeologist David Phillipson notes, have “much in common physically and environmentally”. They form part of a wide region which, Walter Raunig observes, has “not only very close geographical, climatic, zoological and botanical connections”, but also “cultural links [which] have always been equally, at times exceptionally strong”.
The Queen of Sheba
The antiquity of Ethiopian and Yemeni history is apparent from the fact that traditions in both countries go back twelve centuries to the time of the renowned Queen of Sheba. It is not the object of this article to examine her life, or to enter into the debate as to whether she was the ruler of Ethiopia or Yemen, or whether her government, as is often suggested, extended over both lands. It is sufficient to note that traditions associated with her are common to both, and point to the existence of an at least partially shared culture, dating back to early antiquity.
The Habashat, and the Origins of Ethiopian Civilisation
An intimate relationship between Ethiopia and Yemen in ancient times has also been postulated from the fact that several place and clan names, as well as inscriptions in the South Arabian language Sabaean, are found in both countries.
The existence of shared names on either side of the Red Sea caused the Italian scholar Carlo Conti Rossini to postulate, however somewhat simplistically, that the very name of Abyssinia was of Yemeni origin. The word is generally believed to be derived from the name Habashat, used to designate a people which lived in the north of historic Ethiopia, in what are now the highlands of part of Eritrea and Tigray.
Land on both sides of the Red Sea, according to the ancient geographer Ptolemy (AD 150)
Conti Rossini assumed that the Habashat actually originated in Yemen, and later established themselves, as colonists, on the Ethiopian side of the Red Sea, where, he believed, they introduced their name. It was his belief, furthermore, that the South Arabian language, and writing, represented the origin and basis of the Ethiopian tongue and script Ge‘ez.
These suppositions were once widely accepted. The British Arabist Spencer Trimingham for example wrote, in 1952, that the Habashat, or “agriculturalist mountaineers” of Yemen, faced with population pressure, and the failure of their irrigation system, crossed the intervening sea, and, after leaving the “inhospitable coastal zone” of Ethiopia, “found a country [in the Ethiopian interior] which possessed the same climate and vegetation as their own land”. The Habashat, he claims, thereupon “assumed a predominance over all the other tribes, and its chief took the title of negus nagasti (chief of chiefs)”. As a result, “the kingdom of Habashat consolidated itself about the third century B.C., when its rule extended over the plateau region of Eritrea and northern Tigrai”.
“Settlers and Colonizers”
Elaborating on this supposed migration, Trimingham claimed that the Yemeni migrants “came as settlers and colonizers”, “brought their regional names with them”, settled in the plateau regions “most suitable for agriculture”, and “brought the fully developed civilization of the Sabaeans”. The Yemenis, he claims, “introduced the use of metals, certain domestic animals, new plants, advanced systems of irrigation and agriculture, new forms of communal organization, and the art of writing”.
Conti Rossini’s thesis, which was based largely on conjecture, was, however, subsequently undermined by the work of a number of other scholars approaching the question from different disciplines and interests. One of the first of these scholars was Joseph Greenberg, whose Studies in African Linguistic Classification, appeared in 1955. In it he argued that the Semitic languages, found on both sides of the Red Sea, were in no way unique to the region, but formed part of a very much wider Afroasiatic language family scattered over much of Africa, as far as Chad in the west.
Jacqueline Pirenne
In the following year, 1956, Jacqueline Pirenne, a scholar of early Arabian history, drastically revised South Arabian chronology. Her new dating was significant to the question of Ethiopian origins, for it indicated that Sabaean immigrants to Ethiopia did not live in Ethiopia for centuries, as Conti Rossini had postulated, but only for no more than a few decades.
Six years later, in 1962, the Dutch linguist A.J. Drewes, published his important Inscriptions ie l’Ethiopie antique. It revealed the existence in Ethiopia of Ge‘ez graffiti, and other inscriptions, which were quite as old as the South Arabian inscriptions in Ethiopia. This discovery showed that Conti Rossini had been mistaken in assuming that Sabaean inscriptions in the country represented the prototype from which Ge‘ez had later developed.
In the following decade the Italian archaeologist Rodolfo Fattovich, working in Nubia, unearthed ancient pottery virtually identical to that which had been produced in Ethiopia prior to the founding of Aksum. This evidence suggested that the early material culture of Aksum was of essentially African origin, and had thus developed entirely independently of South Arabian immigration.
Roger Schneider
This thesis was further spelt out, in the following year, by the epigraphist Roger Schneider. Emphasising the entirely unproven character of Conti Rossini’s suppositions, he pointed out for example that the people of northern Ethiopia, living as they did in a rocky environment, did not have to wait for the arrival of the Sabaeans to erect houses built of stone. He argued further that Sabaeans who came to Ethiopia “did not arrive in a cultural vacuum”, but that, on the contrary, a significant Ethiopian state, people, and language had existed well before their advent. He contended further that Sabaean settlement was restricted to a few localities, and did not impinge greatly on Northern Ethiopia as a whole.
Schneider’s final conclusion was that similarities between South Arabian and Ethiopian civilization had in fact existed long before the coming to Ethiopia of the Sabaeans.
These and other arguments in support of Ethiopian origins independent of South Arabia were subsequently supported by other scholars, among them three linguists, the Ethiopian Abraham Demoz, the American Grover Hudson, and the Englishman David Appleyard, at a Conference on Ethiopian Origins, organised by the present writer at the School of Oriental and African Studies, in June 1978.
Standing Conti Rossini on his Head
The result of such convergent investigations by scholars working in different fields was that Jacqueline Pirenne, basing herself on the area’s material culture, as well as on linguistic and paleographic data, stood Conti Rossini’s thesis on its head. She argued that migration was “not from Yemen to Ethiopia, but rather in the opposite direction: from Ethiopia to Yemen”.
Whatever the direction, dating, and details of such migration, there can be no denying that northern Ethiopia and Yemen, in the half millennium or so prior to the Christian era, shared a related civilisation, or civilisations. This is evident from the at least limited use in Ethiopia of the Sabaean language and script, as found on ancient Aksumite inscriptions and coins, and an apparently identical religion. The latter centred on the worship of the sun and moon, and the local god Almaqah. The logo of the sun and moon, used at that time in Yemen, appears for example on an ancient Aksumite obelisk at Matara, as well as on virtually all pre-Christian Aksum coins, which began to be struck in the first century A.D. Reference to Almaqah is likewise to be seen on many Sabaean inscriptions on both sides of the Red Sea.
Nice article Sundiata, i agree with the premise of the main authors cited concerning the sedentary cultures of the horn vis a vis south arabia.(not the queen of sheba and solomon stuff though) I personally belive that it was a two way street as mandote discribed above, it's obvious that indigenous Yemenites are extremly horner influenced throughout and this influence before any abrahamic religions existed ( there's really not much barrier between the red sea/gulf of Aden and the coasts of both sides). Also all south arabian civilizations occured on the coasts of Yemen facing the horn of africa, while no one occured in anyother place in the whole of arabic peninsula , saudi arabia, qatar, oman, uae et,c all were in Yemen. So i basically agree that the location of Yemen and the movement of people across the strip of this narrow sea made these ancient societies possible.
Posted by Wolofi (Member # 14892) on :
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: Don't mind what-box, he's known as the "forum butler", his only function in this forum is to repeat what others have said (with his own nonsensical twist ofcourse) or continue catering and defending others opinion ( since he never has his own). He's an ideal butler, i would have payed him twice the market salary for his service if i could afford one.
Which is the ideal purpose of a mulatto to do LOL Posted by Sundiata (Member # 13096) on :
^^Wolofi, your racial/racist agenda has been just as evident as people like Chimu and Shauny. Get that in check. Yonis#1 already got banned for his America-hating ways, I'd suggest not cheer-leading banned trolls.
Posted by Yonis2 (Member # 11348) on :
Sundiata your ego seems to have been wounded somehow, the aggresivness you've been displaying at this thread doesn't suite you, i suggest that you relax a bit. Btw didn't i already show you that my first account is still active? No need to come up with lies i've never been banned.
Posted by Alive-(What Box) (Member # 10819) on :
^I suggest you shut the hell up.
Posted by Yonis2 (Member # 11348) on :
I suggest you go back to the kitchen.
Posted by Yonis2 (Member # 11348) on :
What-box the mindless donkey Can't be easy being a donkey in 2008¨. Hey, what-box i bet even your own mother calls you a mindless donkey. I'll be nice to you though, tell me your birthday and i'll buy you your own personality. Posted by Wolofi (Member # 14892) on :
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: I suggest you go back to the kitchen.
LOLOL!!! Mulatto=Small mule for kitchen labor!! Posted by Ebony Allen (Member # 12771) on :
quote:Originally posted by Madote:
quote:Originally posted by Ebony Allen:
quote:Originally posted by Wolofi: They are so light skinned what are they mixed with?
You know damn well that they aren't mixed.
I think it would be a flat out lie to say Eritreans and most horn of Africans are not mixed. The mixing that took place with the people of arabian peninsula was not a one way street, it went both ways, as Edward Keall states.
"during the late 3rd millennium BC, in response to a drying climate, people were on the move. Some settled on Dahlak island. The people who settled in al-Midamman **crossed the Red Sea and settled in the Tihama** where they found a window of opportunity for life as result of the **massive flooding that was emanating from the highlands**, from a landscape out of control. When checks and balances were put in place in the highlands, as part of the landscape stabilisation for which Yemen became synonymous, the people at the coast were forced to move on. Groups may have found their way into the Jawf, and the Hadramawt. They retained some of their specific lithic technology, but generally otherwise **became integrated** with the rest of the South Arabian populations. — Edward Keall
black, white or hutu power aside, no need to edit history to get back at the same people who put you down because of your African look. Even though our forefathers mixed, we today are just as African as the rest. Most Blacks in the states have white bloodline mixing, it still does not take away their blackness, so the case for the horn of Africans is the same.
Most Ethiopian tribes are not mixed. Yet they still have thin noses, thin lips,long skulls, and silky wavy, semi-straight, or silky curly hair. Only a few are mixed. Is that clear to you now, idiot?
Posted by Madote (Member # 15212) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ebony Allen:
quote:Originally posted by Madote:
quote:Originally posted by Ebony Allen:
quote:Originally posted by Wolofi: They are so light skinned what are they mixed with?
You know damn well that they aren't mixed.
I think it would be a flat out lie to say Eritreans and most horn of Africans are not mixed. The mixing that took place with the people of arabian peninsula was not a one way street, it went both ways, as Edward Keall states.
"during the late 3rd millennium BC, in response to a drying climate, people were on the move. Some settled on Dahlak island. The people who settled in al-Midamman **crossed the Red Sea and settled in the Tihama** where they found a window of opportunity for life as result of the **massive flooding that was emanating from the highlands**, from a landscape out of control. When checks and balances were put in place in the highlands, as part of the landscape stabilisation for which Yemen became synonymous, the people at the coast were forced to move on. Groups may have found their way into the Jawf, and the Hadramawt. They retained some of their specific lithic technology, but generally otherwise **became integrated** with the rest of the South Arabian populations. — Edward Keall
black, white or hutu power aside, no need to edit history to get back at the same people who put you down because of your African look. Even though our forefathers mixed, we today are just as African as the rest. Most Blacks in the states have white bloodline mixing, it still does not take away their blackness, so the case for the horn of Africans is the same.
Most Ethiopian tribes are not mixed. Yet they still have thin noses, thin lips,long skulls, and silky wavy, semi-straight, or silky curly hair. Only a few are mixed. Is that clear to you now, idiot?
The Majority of Ethiopians are Oromos and Amharas, they make up atleast 75% of the population. Together with the Tigrays and Ogadeni Somalis and Afars, that's atleast 90% of Ethiopia's population.
With that said, here is a DNA study done on Oromos and Amharas that clearly states both of them have the same orgins and BOTH have mixing of Yemeni bloodline.
Now that I've shown you science to back up my claims, you can go shove your middle finger up your sister's unballanced hutu ass.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
I always thought that Arabia was part of Greater African. ie Southern Arabian had much African heritage. When Africans first left the "continent" that's there port of entry to the rest of the world. Makes sense that their are much African blood in Yemen etc.
quote:Originally posted by Madote: [..........white bloodline mixing, it still does not take away their blackness, so the case for the horn of Africans is the same. [/QB]
Posted by Madote (Member # 15212) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: I always thought that Arabia was part of Greater African. ie Southern Arabian had much African heritage. When Africans first left the "continent" that's there port of entry to the rest of the world. Makes sense that their are much African blood in Yemen etc.
quote:Originally posted by Madote: [..........white bloodline mixing, it still does not take away their blackness, so the case for the horn of Africans is the same.
[/QB]
Yes, you're very right...the Yemeni people have mixed with horn of African populations and vise-versa. Pre-Islam and pre-Christanity, both populations mixed freely.
Look at how some Yemeni children look.
Kids of Eritrea
Even some of the migrations from Yemen to Eritrea had already had African culturals and traditions, which clearly illustrates both populations moving back and forth from Yemen to Eritrea and vise-versa.
"A sedentary people, apparently with Afro-Arabian cultural traditions, was settled on the plateau around Asmara (Eritrea) in the late second millennium BC (the ‘Ona Group A’ with red pottery, c. 1500–1000 BC). They were in contact with the Jebel Mokram people of the western lowlands and the coastal ones along the Red Sea. Some finds from ‘Ona Group A’ sites suggest that this population was directly in contact with Egypt through the Red Sea maritime route. The same evidence, recording some chiefs of Punt, might suggest that a complex society arose on the eastern plateau in the mid-second millennium BC (Fig. 5; Tringali 1979; Tringali 1981; Fattovich 1988; Fattovich 1993). Peoples with similar pottery were living along the Eritrean and south Arabian coast of the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden in the mid-second millennium BC (the ‘Tihama Cultural Complex’, c. 1500–1200 BC). Evidence for this has been recorded at Adulis near the Gulf of Zula in Eritrea, Sihi in the Saudi Tihama, Wadi Urq’ in the Yemeni Tihama, and Subr near Aden. The pottery from these sites shows some similarities to that from the Kerma and ‘C-Group’ of the middle Nile valley."
Posted by Madote (Member # 15212) on :
20 dollars via paypal for the first person to find me a DNA study of Tigrinya and Tigre Ethnic groups of Eritrea.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
You said "freely" mixing. I read someplace that there are certain MtDNA haplogroups found ONLY on the continent, including the East Coast(Horn). Which MAY disprove that "free" movement. Also, I think there is a study that suggest there was very little movement INTO the continent pre-recorded history.
Posted by xyyman (Member # 13597) on :
BTW - nice pics. I see these kids everyday in the streets of Philly.
Posted by Madote (Member # 15212) on :
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: You said "freely" mixing. I read someplace that there are certain MtDNA haplogroups found ONLY on the continent, including the East Coast(Horn). Which MAY disprove that "free" movement. Also, I think there is a study that suggest there was very little movement INTO the continent pre-recorded history.
The word Freely might be a poor word of choice, nonetheless, I was trying to say, both Yemeni and the horn populations, (some more than others), have experienced some form of mixing. The evidence is there in the DNA.
I'm not disagreeing with you on the haplogroups aspect of what you're saying but I would like to see the one for the horn of Africa if you don't mind.
Also, would you share the pre-recorded history study you're talking about, thanks in advance.
Posted by Alive-(What Box) (Member # 10819) on :
quote:Originally posted by a biatch under the alias "Yonis2":
Yonis, you *try too hard*, and the irrelevant bitter venom you spew doesn't help your condition.
Basically the boy's an anti African American (and anti-bantu, and other things) Belgian, Swedish, or Norweigian or whatever the h ell he is biatch.
His beef with me is he got mad at me for calling him on his BS in a forum about the meaning of Kemet.
He kept stupidly saying that "Osirus the great black" was not in reference to skin color or melanin despite the corresponding iconography.
No one else said anything about how stupid his analogy with that title to that of "Osirus - Lord of the white cloth" was.
I told him that "melanin" or "skin" or whatever wasn't even in need of reference.
Specifically:
quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box): when talking about the brown rabbit:
I'm sure no one asks "hey what part of the rabbit do ya mean? Do ya mean its furr?"
No yonis, we mean its flippin' snatch.
When talking about the sun is bright, do we always specify that its not so much the sun as it is its photon particles?
Or something to that affect.
When ever shown that his logic isn't the best, Yonis:
A) Produces a rant-post (intended to hurt feelings?) that doesn't do shi'ite but show he's been defeated.
B.) He said I was cheerleading as If this is about teams (Wtf is the ho doin in this very thread? At least it's not more Arab dick-sucking. )
So yeah the above are just typically how Yonis attempts to compensate for a lack of an answer whenevver shown how foolish he sounds.
He's only useful in topics involving East African customs, histories, languages, and some topics which give him ample time to hug on to 'Arab nuts'.
He can keep on in his delusional dreaming that I am assisting him as much he wants.
quote:Originally posted by Ailamos:
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: Somalia is not happy because we have to much bantu/sambura genes in the south, (this is happy none thinking only shoting genes) everything bad about somali comes from the south and everything good comes from the north. Lesson to be learnt, never mix somali genes with bantu genes, or else you'll get southern somali Mooryans (savages) stuck in your throught. : )
Hoyaa waas. There is nothing more hideous and ugly than your character.
You run away slave from Yemen, Ethiopian loving, HIV/AIDS infected Somalis in the North are a disgrace to everything that is Somali.
Everyone knows it was the Northerners who started the Civil War, by messing with Siad Barre, and God did they get an ass whopping they will never forget. If you are a bloody Fasqash burn in hell and if you are a bloody Qaldan die of the Ethiopian AIDS.
You Arab-claiming kikuyu looking slaves need to stop hating.I had enough of your xaar talk
quote:Originally posted by Ailamos: Ha, aren’t you guys not the FAQASH? The ones what were being massacred in 90s by the Hawiyas. Your constant hate and fear for Somalis who live in Southern Somalia proves that.
Your lips are a victim of the Ethiopia behind, so you as an individual can definitely be a victim to anyone and anything at anytime and anywhere.
Your intelligence can’t surpass that of a retarded dead monkey. You're a sub-human creature that has deluded himself beyond salvation. Your kind works to clean the ass of other sub-humans with your tongues and use you sharp-edged teeth to clean out the germs that are in hard to reach places. That is a task even animals would refuse to perform, yet you Ma "Jareer" tans volunteer to do such a thing and still remain to be proud. That is a brain-dead baboon right there.
quote:Originally posted by Yonis: Seriously if this is what "new world blacks" want to offer as their so called "contrubution"
quote:Originally posted by rasol:
quote:Yonis writes: Skin colour is an adaptive trait and thus quite irrelevant.
And adaptive trait is relevant by definition. When you say a trait is 'adaptive' and therefore 'irrelevant', it is and oxymoron.
You never make any sense, Yonis.
You continue to parrot nonsense from white supremacists on the internet and then drag their comments to this forum, only to end up humiliating yourself.
You don't seem to understand how utterly stupid, your racist sources are.
As for what this says about you....well, nevermind.
Yonis's response:
quote:Originally posted by Yonis2: What are you goign to do about it rasol?
Oh wait, that's right, you can't do sh*t[...]
Yonis. The media says it's rightfully at war with facist Moslem extremists, and they're just doing what they gotta do - what any moral entity would do.
What you 'gone do about it - oh yeah, you can't do shyt.
Posted by Habari (Member # 14738) on :
quote:Yes, you're very right...the Yemeni people have mixed with horn of African populations and vise-versa. Pre-Islam and pre-Christanity, both populations mixed freely.
Madote, I'm personally from East Africa and I think that you are right when you say that some people of the Horn of Africa have west Asian ancestry, however many Afars, Somalis, Southern Oromos are no different from Africans who never mixed with Yemenis, they look like Samburu, Massai, Tutsis:they have the same fine features and dark skin and tall bodies...it is true that farmers in the horn of Africa like Amharas, Tigres, Tigrinyas and Tigrays have more Yemeni influence compare to nomad pastoralists like the Afars, Somalis, and Southern Oromos, Boranas, even genetics show that Amhara have up to 40% non African genes compare to Oromo and Somalis...but Somalis, Southern Oromos and Afars have less Yemeni admixture, definitely, I can tell it with my own eyes...they are almost 100% Africans... P.S: the reason why I precise Southern Oromos is because they look more like elongated people of East Africa like Somalis, Afars, Tutsi, Massai, Samburu: tall, skinny, very dark with fine features, whereas Northern Oromos look more like Amharas: short, light skin with some nilo-saharan features, bantu-Arab features...and if xyman is an African American he has probably more non African blood than Madote....
Posted by Yonis2 (Member # 11348) on :
quote:Habari wrote: however many Afars, Somalis, Southern Oromos are no different from Africans who never mixed with Yemenis, they look like Samburu, Massai, Tutsis:
The horn region is very diverse and not homogenous, and yes somalis are quite different to the sedentary horners in phenotype, somalis themselves are not even similar to each other. But to claim that afar or somalis are racially more similar to a Bantu or a Massai or a Tutsi than they are with other horn africans is a farfetched claim and pure kikuyu garbage talk. As far as i know Tutsi are a bantu people genetically and linguistically and Massai/ Sambura etc are a Nilosaharan people, Somalis and Afar are no where close to this(other than those mixed in the south ofcourse with bantu/ Rendille and whatnot)
Posted by Yonis2 (Member # 11348) on :
quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box): Text(a bunch of meaningless babel )
Poor Butler, didn't know i had such an effect on you, interesting that you've memorized everything i've written, how long did it take for you to find those quotes? Can't say i'm flattered though coz your just a donkey afterall. Also, next time you write something remember that you are writting for others to read not just yourself, if you don't change you incohorent writting style then you might as well just stand in the mirror and talk to yourself instead of wasting bandwidth, that's how useless your posts are for other readers.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Yonis wrote:
---------------------- But to claim that afar or somalis are racially more similar to a Bantu or a Massai or a Tutsi than they are with other horn africans ----------------------
Its pathetic how Somalis are always trying to leech off Ethiopians. I've even seen whites say it. LOL.
Its funny because I've never seen Ethiopians giving a damn about roaches AKA Somalis outside of putting their foot up their asses of course. LOL : )
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
I've seen Eritreans and it makes one laugh at this mixture fantasy.
I decided to turn on my images just to confirm what I already have seen before. And I just have to
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
I've never ever seen people like the people posted on the previous page before. I mean really, really, never, ever, never, ever, no way. I mean these people just look so totally different. These peoples looks are just totally unique. I'm being sarcastic of course. : )
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
I wouldn't be surprise if this madote character was a SoSmalie. Probably Yonis's cousin. LOL : )
Posted by Yonis2 (Member # 11348) on :
What are you doing here? Don't you have some voodoo class to take?
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Yeah I'll conjure up a salad with all of your favorite ingredients:
Bananas
Onions
and
Khat
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Posted by Yonis2 (Member # 11348) on :
You forgot to add some coolaid.
Posted by Wolofi (Member # 14892) on :
quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Yeah I'll conjure up a salad with all of your favorite ingredients:
Bananas
Onions
and
Khat
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
LOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Posted by Habari (Member # 14738) on :
quote:other than those mixed in the south ofcourse with bantu/ Rendille and whatnot
As it was mentioned before by many Somalis, there is no clear difference between Northern Somalis and Southern Somalis, maybe the latter are darker, other than that:features are the same:Southern Somalis are Darods, Dir Hawiye, and Rahanweyn and they look phenotypically like Northern Somalis. Actually, it's your clan that is among the most presented in Southern Somalia: Posted by Yonis2 (Member # 11348) on :
I never said somalis in south differ from north, however many in south are mixed with oromo/rendille/mushunguli bantu etc plus omani and persian. Also my clan only inhabits the north eastern part of somali, Majerten region, some live in kismayu but thats only the last cnetury or so. Anyway this thread is about eritrean genome so stay on topic, kikuyu boy.
Posted by Habari (Member # 14738) on :
quote:kikuyu boy
I'm not kikuyu...and I'm not from Kenya...get a life...Majerteen are Darods...
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
^Tigre woman (Eritrean)
^Tigrayan Ethiopians..![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
