This is one example of how the cranial and skeletal structure of the ancient Egyptians differs from the sub-Saharan.
Carlton Coon, 1939: "One such concentration of [Paleolithic] food-gatherers is seen in the Sebilian culture of Upper Egypt. The skeletal remains from this culture, which have not yet been published, are said to anticipate in physical type the predynastic, placing a fine Mediterranean type in pre-Neolithic times.
"The importance of these [early Neolithic] people is that they probably represent the prototype of the Neolithic agriculturalists who moved westward along the shore of North Africa to Morocco, and over into Spain, whence they spread the Neolithic economy, with emmer flax, and swine, to the Swiss lakes and to the Rhine. ... The skulls of these people, which consist mostly of females and infants, are all dolichocephalic and Mediterranean. There is no trace of negroid influence and the skulls are said to be larger than those of predynastic Egyptians....
"The [pre-Dynastic] Badarian type represents a small branch of the Mediterranean racial group. ... The Badarian skulls are more prognathous than those of their successors, and have higher nasal indices. ... In fact, while the prognathism and nose form would suggest a negroid tendency, this cannot be established, since the hair form is definitely not negroid. ... Morant shows that the Badarian cranial type is closely similar to that of some of the modern Christians of northern Ethiopia—who incidentally do not show negroid characteristics in the skull—and also to the crania of Dravidian-speaking peoples of southern India. ... On the basis of these racial comparisons, it seems reasonable to suggest that this Badarian physical type may have come from the south, near the headwaters of the Blue Nile. It may represent an early Hamitic racial strain, which persists despite some negroid admixture in Ethiopia and Somaliland to the present day.
"In Lower Egypt lived another group of Mediterranean predynastic people who differed from the Upper Egyptians in certain noticeable ways. The heads were broader, the cranial indices higher, reaching a mean of 75, whereas the Upper Egyptian mean is nearly 72. The vault height is less, the face is no broader, but somewhat longer, and the nasal index is lower.
"The two types from Upper and Lower Egypt represent the extremes of a purely native Egyptian population, but from the beginning of dynastic times, around 3000 B.C. until Ptolemaic times, the numerous series which give an excellent picture of the progress of racial continuity and change in Egypt show the interactions of these two types. The racial history of Egypt in the course of three thousand years was simply the gradual replacement of the Upper Egyptian type by that of Lower Egypt. ... Ancient Egypt must remain the most outstanding example yet known in the world of an important, naturally isolated region in which native racial types were permitted to develop their own way for several thousand years completely uninfluenced by foreign contacts.
"The wealth of contemporary illustrative material from Egyptian art sources may be divided into two classes, conventional representations and portraits. The former show a definite and well-recognized type; slender-bodied and wiry, with narrow hips and small hands and feet. The head and face are those of a smoothly contoured fine Mediterranean form.
"The pigmentation of the Egyptians was usually a brunet white; in the conventional figures the men are represented as red, the women often as lighter, and even white. ... the hair is almost inevitably black or dark brown, and the eyes brown.... The Egyptian representation of foreigners is quite accurate; besides the Libyans, who have Nordic features as well as coloring, Asiatics, with prominent noses and curly hair, sea peoples from the Mediterranean, with lighter skins and a more pronounced facial relief than the Egyptians, are also shown, as well as negroes. ... The Mediterranean pigmentation of the Egyptians has probably not greatly changed during the last five thousand years."
3. The discovery of ancient tools similar to the ones used in Central Africa in the far south of Egypt does not prove the ancient Egyptians were black because these basic instruments wouldn't have any more racial origin implications than the universal use of bows and arrows. Egyptians had limited knowledge of and trade relations with sub-Saharan Africa. The extremity of that knowledge was modern northern Sudan and Somalia (Punt).
4. The ancient Egyptian language bore close resemblance to Berber (North African) and Semitic (Middle Eastern) counterparts. It is in this sense that it was an Afro-Asiatic language. Arabic and Hebrew are both also Afro-Asiatic languages, and this would hardly make the Arabs or Hebrews black Africans.
Rando et al, 1998: "Caucasoid mtDNA (maternal) sequences, labeled L3E and U6, were detected at frequencies of 96% in Moroccan Berbers, 82% in Algerian Berbers and 78% in non-Berber Moroccans, compared with only 4% in a Senegalese population."
Bosch et al, 2001: "So far, our analyses have allowed a clear dissection of almost all NW African...paternal lineages into several components with distinct historical origins. In this way, the historical origins of the NW African Y-chromosome pool may be summarized as follows: 75% NW African Upper Paleolithic (H35, H36, and H38), 13% Neolithic (H58 and H71), 4% historic European gene flow (group IX, H50, H52), and 8% recent sub-Saharan African (H22 and H28)."
Bosch et al, 1997: "An extensive bibliographic search was conducted to compile all available data on allele frequencies for classical genetic polymorphisms referring to North African populations. The data were then synthesized to reconstruct the population's demographic history using principal components analysis and genetic distances represented by neighbor-joining trees. Both analyses identified an east-west pattern of genetic variation in northern Africa pointing to the differentiation between the Berber and Arab population groups of the northwest and the populations of Libya and Egypt. Libya and Egypt are also the smallest genetic distances away from European populations. Demic diffusion during the Neolithic period could explain the genetic similarity between northeast Africa and Europe through a parallel process of gene flow from the Near East, but a Mesolithic or older differentiation of the populations into the northwestern regions with later limited gene flow is needed to understand this genetic picture. Mauritanians, Tuaregs, and south Algerian Berbers, the most isolated groups, were the most differentiated, while Arab speakers overall are closer to Egyptians and Libyans. The genetic contribution of sub-Saharan Africa appears to be small."
The Egyptians had a written language, and written languages did not exist in most of sub-Saharan Africa, contributing to poor knowledge of these ancient cultures.
5. The Egyptians were far from being the only civilization in history to practice mummification. An ancient African mummy would not necessarily have been Egyptian. Pyramids were built in Mexico and Cambodia, which doesn't suggest an Egyptian presence there either.
6. In order for Nubia to have had writing, administrative apparatus, and insignia some 300 years before dynastic Egypt, this would have pointed to a fully equipped, completely independent civilization existing as early as 3400 BC. The oldest civilizations in the sense of the world, were the Egyptians and the Sumerians.
Furthermore, there is evidence that even the Nubians were not black Africans, but dark-skinned Caucasoids like many modern Ethiopians.
Pudlo, 1999: "Starting from the Late Neolithic...similarities between the Nubians and the populations of Northeast Africa...and Asia...became even more distinct, which may prove the existence of strong ties derived probably from influx of the Caucasoids from the regions of Levant, Mesopotamia, and India. They were coming to Nubia through the Sinai Peninsula, but probably also through the south Saudi Arabia. The Kerma series from Upper Nubia shows particular similarities to the present-day Indian series.
"From the Neolithic on, or possibly even earlier, the strategic location of Nubia, promoting contacts between various populations, started to bring about effects in the form of the civilizational development of this region. Finally, these two factors led to the Hamitisation process, whereby superimposition of the Caucasoids on the Negroids took place."
7. Nabta is located to the far mid south of Egypt, very close to the Sudanese border, and it's hardly surprising that an African jawbone would have been discovered there.
Krings et al, 1999: "To assess the extent to which the Nile River Valley has been a corridor for human migrations between Egypt and sub-Saharan Africa, we analyzed mtDNA variation in 224 individuals from various locations along the river. Sequences of the first hypervariable segment (HV1) of the mtDNA control region and a polymorphic HpaI site at position 3592 allowed us to designate each mtDNA as being of 'northern' or 'southern' affiliation. Proportions of northern and southern mtDNA differed significantly between Egypt, Nubia, and the southern Sudan.
"...we can infer that the migration of northern mtDNA types to the south is older than the migration of southern mtDNA types to the north (or that there has been less gene flow from north to south than from south to north along the Nile River Valley) and that Egypt and Nubia have had more genetic contact than either has had with the southern Sudan. Moreover, we can tentatively infer that these migrations occurred recently enough to fall within the period of the documented historical record of human populations in the Nile River Valley."
Lucotte et al, 2003: "...the present study on the Y-chromosome haplotype shows that there are northern and southern Y-haplotypes in Egypt. The main Y-haplotype V is a northern haplotype, with a significantly different frequency in the north compared to the south of the country: frequencies of haplotype V are 51.9% in the Delta (location A), 24.2% in Upper Egypt (location B), and 17.4% in Lower Nubia (location C). On the other hand, haplotype IV is a typical southern haplotype, being almost absent in A (1.2%), and preponderant in B (27.3%) and C (39.1%). Haplotype XI also shows a preponderance in the south (in C, 30.4%; B, 28.8%) compared to the north (11.7% in A) of the country.
"It is interesting to relate this peculiar north/south differentiation, a pattern of genetic variation deriving from the two uniparentally inherited genetic systems (mtDNA and Y chromosome), to specific historic events. Since the beginning of Egyptian history (3200-3100 B.C.), the legendary king Menes united Upper and Lower Egypt. Migration from north to south may coincide with the Pharaonic colonization of Nubia, which occurred initially during the Middle Kingdom (12th Dynasty, 1991-1785 B.C.), and more permanently during the New Kingdom, from the reign of Thotmosis III (1490-1437 B.C.). The main migration from south to north may coincide with the 25th Dynasty (730-655 B.C.), when kings from Napata (in Nubia) conquered Egypt."
Fox, 1997: "The Hpal (np3,592) mitochondrial DNA marker is a selectively neutral mutation that is very common in sub-Saharan Africa.... From 29 [Merotic Nubian] individuals analysed, only 15 yield positive amplifications, four of them (26.7%) displaying the sub-Saharan African marker. Hpa 1 (np3,592) marker is present in the sub-Saharan populations at a frequency of 68.7 on average. Thus, the frequency of genes from this area in the Merotic Nubian population can be estimated at around 39% (with a confidence interval from 22% to 55%). The frequency obtained fits in a south-north decreasing gradient of Hpa I (np3,592) along the African continent. Results suggest that morphological changes observed historically in the Nubian populations are more likely to be due to the existence of south-north gene flow through the Nile Valley than to in-situ evolution."
I have never met an Arab who dined that Ancient Egypt people were Black ; even White people acknowledge for not to insult their intelligence.
I think you are a trouble maker [calling your self Arabegypt sounds a troll to me - a Zionist troll]
Posted by ackee (Member # 16371) on :
Hey Arwa he is not Egyptian and he is not black: But he is a nazi and you know "what" he love the blacks but hates the fact that he not black,LoL who ever heard of a nazi loving blacks. IT'S A NEW DAY IT'S A NEW DAYYY!!! lyrics by Excessive Obession: produced by Just Trollin. Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Not responding to the poor pitiful attention starved troll, but I'm wanting to spread some observations to the more unintellectual out there.
Notice how the bogus ethnic group "Nubians" are routinely shuttled in and out of the equally bogus "caucasoid/negroid" categories depending on the objective.
Want to place the Ancient Egyptians in the "caucasoid" label, then the "Nubians" have to be labeled "negroid".
Want to steal the so called "Nubian" culture and history, then label the so called "Nubians" as being "caucasoids".
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
ackee wrote: ----------------------------- he is not Egyptian and he is not black -----------------------------
He is d----a dung, that is over here because of "The Bass" aka Superfly.
Posted by thegaul (Member # 16198) on :
I have never met an Arab who dined that Ancient Egypt people were Black ; even White people acknowledge for not to insult their intelligence.
I think you are a trouble maker [calling your self Arabegypt sounds a troll to me - a Zionist troll]
I am starting to think you are right, Arwa. I've noticed that ever since a past troll (Abaza) that most of those so-called modern 'Egyptians' who deny the black African identity of ancient Egyptians aren't really ethnically 'Arabs' but descend from more recent immigrants to Egypt such as Turks and Circassians (Caucasians as in from the Caucasus Mountains). I would not at all be surprised if this were the case with 'arabegypt'.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
As for the arabhead's so-called 'proof', LOL I'm not even going to waste my time addressing his nonsense.
I will just post pics of the most famous pharaoh of all-- King Tut:
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
I don't get it, why did he start another thread.
By the way, does anyone have any pictures of Ramses II that shows his hair? I don't think he is ever depicted with Red hair but plentyp of Nubians are.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Originally posted by Arwa: Arabegypt,
I have never met an Arab who dined that Ancient Egypt people were Black ; even White people acknowledge for not to insult their intelligence.
I think you are a trouble maker [calling your self Arabegypt sounds a troll to me - a Zionist troll]
I am starting to think you are right, Arwa. I've noticed that ever since a past troll (Abaza) that most of those so-called modern 'Egyptians' who deny the black African identity of ancient Egyptians aren't really ethnically 'Arabs' but descend from more recent immigrants to Egypt such as Turks and Circassians (Caucasians as in from the Caucasus Mountains). I would not at all be surprised if this were the case with 'arabegypt'.
I guess you don't have any sympathy for them?
Posted by Lord Sauron (Member # 6729) on :
^ Idiot do you think anybody buys your silly double act, osirion/xyyman. GTFOH Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lord Sauron: ^ Idiot do you think anybody buys your silly double act, osirion/xyyman. GTFOH
I was here before you and I'll be here after you are long gone - wind.
ㅜ니라링이러니얼ㄷ
Now what the hell are you talking about?
Posted by Yonis2 (Member # 11348) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Originally posted by Arwa: Arabegypt,
I have never met an Arab who dined that Ancient Egypt people were Black ; even White people acknowledge for not to insult their intelligence.
I think you are a trouble maker [calling your self Arabegypt sounds a troll to me - a Zionist troll]
I am starting to think you are right, Arwa. I've noticed that ever since a past troll (Abaza) that most of those so-called modern 'Egyptians' who deny the black African identity of ancient Egyptians aren't really ethnically 'Arabs' but descend from more recent immigrants to Egypt such as Turks and Circassians (Caucasians as in from the Caucasus Mountains). I would not at all be surprised if this were the case with 'arabegypt'.
Arwa is right, it is an established view by metropolitan Egyptians of the north that upper Egyptians who are the most tropical looking Egyptians are the descendants of the Firoon which is the term Ancient Egyptians are known by in Egypt and the Islamic world. It's only when these Egyptians get introduced to the western mindset that some start to become diehard Ancient Egyptianists and employ terms like caucasoid, the western world really has a way of turning people into ethnocentrists. But i can understand when these delta egyptians get iritated and argue that only modern egyptians are the descendants of those who lived in that land during antiquity, which really is a fact. But these modern egyptians are ofcourse predominatly the fellahins of central and southern Egypt including northern Sudan (but northern sudan has likewise recieved alot of migration from areas of western and central/southern Sudan), but these were the ones least affected by the migration waves from Near-east, Anatolia and south-east Europe who were the biggest settlers in NE Africa and also since upper egypt was the center and heartland of Ancient Egyptian state/society.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
Who the hell is xyyman. I have been Osirion and always been Osirion.
Sometimes I go by Osirisstar but for the most part I am Osirion - Black Jew.
Posted by ausar (Member # 1797) on :
I doubt that ArabEgypt is either Egyptian or Arabic. Admittedly many modern Egyptians and Arabs dislike ''black'' people but not to the extent they would post on white supremacist sites. The only Arabic groups foolish enough to do this is Syrians and Lebanese Arabs.
Some Christian Egyptians that have some false kindred with Europeans might also feel this way. Neither Muslim Egyptians nor Christian ones are foolish enough to claim an Arab origin for the ancient Egyptians. Not even the staunchest Pan-Arabists.
Posted by Lord Sauron (Member # 6729) on :
quote:Originally posted by osirion:
quote:Originally posted by Lord Sauron: ^ Idiot do you think anybody buys your silly double act, osirion/xyyman. GTFOH
I was here before you and I'll be here after you are long gone - wind.
ㅜ니라링이러니얼ㄷ
Haha! We'll see about that.
quote:Originally posted by osirion: Now what the hell are you talking about?
You're bugging out. I was here 3 months before you. Men lie, Women lie, Numbers don't. Get real. Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by ausar: I doubt that ArabEgypt is either Egyptian or Arabic. Admittedly many modern Egyptians and Arabs dislike ''black'' people but not to the extent they would post on white supremacist sites. The only Arabic groups foolish enough to do this is Syrians and Lebanese Arabs.
Some Christian Egyptians that have some false kindred with Europeans might also feel this way. Neither Muslim Egyptians nor Christian ones are foolish enough to claim an Arab origin for the ancient Egyptians. Not even the staunchest Pan-Arabists.
Truth be told.
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
Yonis2 wrote: ----------------------- but northern sudan has likewise recieved alot of migration from areas of western and central/southern Sudan -----------------------
LOL at this "critter" (ha ha ha heeeeeeeee) trying to interject his roach brained ethno-garbage. As if people from eastern Sudan have never migrated to northern or any other location in Sudan and as if certain. And people from other parts of Sudan don't belong in any area that you deem they shouldn't be. Your somalid garbage has been debunked you buck tooth "critter".
As the white supremacist say: you dumb "critter". LOL! : )
Posted by argyle104 (Member # 14634) on :
You know its amazing how dumb all of these so called regular posters are.
You all literally take posters at face value.
Any fool could see after his initial post that the boy is a troll pretending to be something he isn't. It's not like they do anything new. Its the same formula over and over.
Posted by thegaul (Member # 16198) on :
I know I haven't helped much but...when will arabegypt's threads NOT be the most popular or NOT taken seriously?
I put a nice big picture of a parrot in one of americanpatriots threads. Poor guy hasnt been back since. Parody seems to work on troll threads rather than serious debate.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lord Sauron:
quote:Originally posted by osirion:
quote:Originally posted by Lord Sauron: ^ Idiot do you think anybody buys your silly double act, osirion/xyyman. GTFOH
I was here before you and I'll be here after you are long gone - wind.
ㅜ니라링이러니얼ㄷ
Haha! We'll see about that.
quote:Originally posted by osirion: Now what the hell are you talking about?
You're bugging out. I was here 3 months before you. Men lie, Women lie, Numbers don't. Get real.
I have been posting here since 2004. Go read the old Race threads. You will see my posts.
Posted by prmiddleeastern (Member # 14038) on :
Egyptians were Hamitic people, not Semitic, they were different in all aspects to Arabs and Berbers, both were shepherders meanwhile Egyptians weren't.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
One thing about Semitic people is in all Semitic civilizations the depictions of these people are consistent with todays depiction. I am largely referring to the beard of Asiatic people. Pretty much all depictions of Arabic/Semitic people include the distinctive beard. Anyone thinking Egyptians were Arabic most explain why this simple aspect of Semitic culture was simply lost and not transferred from the Levant into NE Africa.
I don't want to minimalize the complexity of the relationship between Nile valley Africans and Semitic people but it should seem obvious that they are not the same people. Clearly the depictions of war against Asiatic people clearly shows African type -vs- the Semitic type.
I would simply ask the observer to consider a simple fact: Egyptians did no have a beard like that of Asiatic people. The beard that is normally depicted on Egyptians is like that of many Nile Valley Africans in that it doesn't grow well but on the chin.
Africans in general do not have a great deal of facial hair or hair in general.
Posted by Judefri (Member # 16548) on :
I'm proudly AFRICAN and if you're a so called HOMO-SAPIEN trying so hard to distinguish your self from AFRICANS,than you should really focus on the definition of what it means to be a HOMO-SAPIEN in every sense of the word plus their place of ORIGIN,cause if I tell you "My vision will turn your world up-side down & put terrace under your Illusions and send the sanctuary of your ignorance crashing all around you"
Posted by Sundjata (Member # 13096) on :
^^Good one, Huey.. Posted by prmiddleeastern (Member # 14038) on :
quote:Originally posted by osirion: Egyptians did no have a beard like that of Asiatic people. The beard that is normally depicted on Egyptians is like that of many Nile Valley Africans in that it doesn't grow well but on the chin.
So they didn't grow beard between the chin and moustache?
Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
quote:Originally posted by osirion:
I have been posting here since 2004. Go read the old Race threads. You will see my posts.
Under what moniker?
Posted by MindoverMatter718 (Member # 15400) on :
bootleg thread, should be trashed.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by prmiddleeastern:
quote:Originally posted by osirion: Egyptians did no have a beard like that of Asiatic people. The beard that is normally depicted on Egyptians is like that of many Nile Valley Africans in that it doesn't grow well but on the chin.
So they didn't grow beard between the chin and moustache?
I hate to always use this guy as an example but being that he is very infamous he is a good illustration.
Osama Bin Laden has what I call the stereotypical Arab look. With the big bushy beard that is common throughout Semitic history. Look at any Levant civilization and the beard is very common. In fact, I dare say ALL representations in Arabic culture shows their Kings with opulent beards.
This is really minimalizing things but if Egypt was a Western Asiatic culture the first thing I notice is the question of the Beards. Why is it that Egyptian people were not into their Beards like you see in Asiatic civilizations and even Greek and Roman?
In fact I wonder if anyone has ever seen a depiction of an Egyptian with a big bushy beard of any kind? Look at the Persians, Bablonians etc. Though all a lot of facial hair. Africans general do not. Egytpians did not depict their people with significant amount of facial hair.
Its a simple aspect differentiation between Arab and Egyptian but I think it is a good illustration for those who are confused.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer:
quote:Originally posted by osirion:
I have been posting here since 2004. Go read the old Race threads. You will see my posts.
Under what moniker?
osirion - go look at the old threads.
Used to have more time to research back in those days to make better posts. That was back when we had evileuro and a few others. Much better debates in those days. People like Arabegypt are boring.
The Black Natufians pretty much ended the old Race debates. Much more interested in the origin of Berbers these days. The Sahara has obscured a great deal of our history.
Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
quote:Originally posted by osirion:
osirion - go look at the old threads.
Used to have more time to research back in those days to make better posts. That was back when we had evileuro and a few others. Much better debates in those days. People like Arabegypt are boring.
There is only one "osirion" active member on this board, which would be the one you are using right now. The registration date of your present alias doesn't match the year you claimed earlier.
Posted by prmiddleeastern (Member # 14038) on :
quote:Originally posted by osirion: I hate to always use this guy as an example but being that he is very infamous he is a good illustration.
Osama Bin Laden has what I call the stereotypical Arab look. With the big bushy beard that is common throughout Semitic history. Look at any Levant civilization and the beard is very common. In fact, I dare say ALL representations in Arabic culture shows their Kings with opulent beards.
This is really minimalizing things but if Egypt was a Western Asiatic culture the first thing I notice is the question of the Beards. Why is it that Egyptian people were not into their Beards like you see in Asiatic civilizations and even Greek and Roman?
In fact I wonder if anyone has ever seen a depiction of an Egyptian with a big bushy beard of any kind? Look at the Persians, Bablonians etc. Though all a lot of facial hair. Africans general do not. Egytpians did not depict their people with significant amount of facial hair.
Its a simple aspect differentiation between Arab and Egyptian but I think it is a good illustration for those who are confused.
I ask you this becuase I and my brother only grow chin hair and moustache, but don't develop a beard,but dad does and my mom's brothers do,so perhaps it could be a trait from an ancestor.
Posted by Hypatia (Member # 14164) on :
Europeans are "liars" and takers of every civiliation that they've come across, Egypt being no exception.
Queer Alexanders' plunder is prime example of Europe's unending quest to possess what it did not create nor understand.
Historiclaly, YT only crawled out of the Caucus Mountains apprx 2,000 years ago; prior to this dispora---Egypt was the Black Mecca of the entire planet!
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer:
quote:Originally posted by osirion:
osirion - go look at the old threads.
Used to have more time to research back in those days to make better posts. That was back when we had evileuro and a few others. Much better debates in those days. People like Arabegypt are boring.
There is only one "osirion" active member on this board, which would be the one you are using right now. The registration date of your present alias doesn't match the year you claimed earlier.
Just ask Rasol or Dhjeuti or Al Tutankhamun.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by prmiddleeastern:
quote:Originally posted by osirion: I hate to always use this guy as an example but being that he is very infamous he is a good illustration.
Osama Bin Laden has what I call the stereotypical Arab look. With the big bushy beard that is common throughout Semitic history. Look at any Levant civilization and the beard is very common. In fact, I dare say ALL representations in Arabic culture shows their Kings with opulent beards.
This is really minimalizing things but if Egypt was a Western Asiatic culture the first thing I notice is the question of the Beards. Why is it that Egyptian people were not into their Beards like you see in Asiatic civilizations and even Greek and Roman?
In fact I wonder if anyone has ever seen a depiction of an Egyptian with a big bushy beard of any kind? Look at the Persians, Bablonians etc. Though all a lot of facial hair. Africans general do not. Egytpians did not depict their people with significant amount of facial hair.
Its a simple aspect differentiation between Arab and Egyptian but I think it is a good illustration for those who are confused.
I ask you this becuase I and my brother only grow chin hair and moustache, but don't develop a beard,but dad does and my mom's brothers do,so perhaps it could be a trait from an ancestor.
Native Americans also do not have much facial hair which might be why you don't have much?
Posted by prmiddleeastern (Member # 14038) on :
quote:Originally posted by osirion: Native Americans also do not have much facial hair which might be why you don't have much?
So it means beards are an unique characteristic of Europeans, right?
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by prmiddleeastern:
quote:Originally posted by osirion: Native Americans also do not have much facial hair which might be why you don't have much?
So it means beards are an unique characteristic of Europeans, right?
When did I say that? I simply made the point that Africans generally don't have a lot of facial hair. Its relative actually and more or less armchair logic. I have not scientific basis for such a statement. Consider it a hypothesis and nothing more.
It just seems to me that Africans in general do not have alot of facial hair unlike Arabs. If this is true then it fits with the fact that Egyptians did not depict themselves with alot of facial hair unlike Western Asian people.
I can't think of a single artifact that is Semitic that doesn't also have a prominent beard associated with it.
If you can test my hypothesis please do.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
^ If Egyptians were Semitic people they should have an art form that looks similar to above. Their mummies should have beards also.
Isn't it strange that none of the mummies have a beard?
But then we all know where mummification practices came from? Don't we? Not from the Arabs for sure but from Saharan Africans similar to the Beja Sudanese.
I am just not finding many indigenous Africans of NE Africa with a lot of facial hair.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
^ Please test my hypothesis.
Posted by prmiddleeastern (Member # 14038) on :
Yes, it is a very strong one, as modern Sub-Saharid population(as you showed on the above pics) don't grow beard( I grow facila hair just like them)in contrast to Arab who grow full beard, in my opinion you have a good point on this.
Posted by Superfly[Formerly The Bass] (Member # 10328) on :
quote:Originally posted by prmiddleeastern: Egyptians were Hamitic people, not Semitic, they were different in all aspects to Arabs and Berbers, both were shepherders meanwhile Egyptians weren't.
Samuel, what the hell is Hamitic? Don't bring up old racialist terms from the past to explain African variability.
Posted by prmiddleeastern (Member # 14038) on :
Hamitics as descendants of Ham, son of Noah(also known as Mizrahim)
Posted by The Explorer (Member # 14778) on :
quote:Originally posted by osirion:
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer:
There is only one "osirion" active member on this board, which would be the one you are using right now. The registration date of your present alias doesn't match the year you claimed earlier.
Just ask Rasol or Dhjeuti or Al Tutankhamun.
Lol; as quite a longstanding ES poster myself, what need would there be, to consult the above mentioned for? The forum's operating system is set up such that one cannot post under the exact same alias in two distinct registrations [hence, warranting modification to a given alias]; that's just the way it is. However, if you insist on not having been confused as I offered above as a possibility, then don't hesitate to post *a link* which would suggest that you were somehow able to pull off posting under the *same single alias* registered in *two or more different time frames*.
Posted by Djedefre (Member # 16548) on :
Due to the Biblical relationship between Egyptians and Jews, and the impact both had on Western society, the West held a high regard of the Ancient Egyptian culture and the widely held assumption in the 19th and 20th century was that the Egyptians were white. The industrialized west, being predominantly Caucasian had historically held a low regard of black people, especially in the U.S.A. and as a part of Judeo-Christian religion in this period, most churches in the U.S. taught that blacks contributed virtually nothing to Jewish and Egyptian heritage. During the first archaeological excavations in the mid 19th century however, strong indicators of Sub-Saharan mixture in Ancient Egyptian society were discovered in higher proportions than expected and the appearance of the Ancient Egyptians did not fit within the model of Whiteness. The prevailing views by Western society of blacks and Ancient Egyptians were therefore challenged. Black intellectuals, who just began an organized movement to illustrate a more balanced and accurate portrayal of blacks in history and contemporary society found a great boon in these discoveries. This is another illustration showing people HOW MANY TIMES the racist have been wrong about Black People and if Ancient-Egypt was not Black, There would be enough illustrations of that because they had the ability & accuracy to portray any skin-tone."All I'm saying is they've been wrong before & it doesn't surprise me when they get it wrong Again & Again..."(AFRICANZ we're the Best period) PEACE!
Posted by Djedefre (Member # 16548) on :
Here's another One! Another Good illustration showing the world that if the Ancient-Egyptians weren't Black it would be clearly visible. Especially when it comes to the Pharoahs,if they were not of Black Origin, their distinction(in racial features) would be substantial to a Great extent. PEACE!
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
The picture above portrays Elamites (the indigenous people of Iran). These people are obviously Asiatic and not African yet they look no different from the African man below...
They have full beards like the Asiatics but they are still African and even Sub-Sahara there are men that grow full beards. --- All of this is another reason why 'races' are invalid and nonexistent.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
^ You are being sarcasting or something? The Beja Sudanese do not grow a full beard. If you mean that bit of peach fuzz on his chin that is not, I repeat, not a full beard by any means and not compared to the portrayal of the typical Western Asiatic person.
I am sure there are exceptions but you don't see alot of indigenous Africans with a REAL full beard. Usually it grows only rather thick on the chin.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer:
quote:Originally posted by osirion:
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer:
There is only one "osirion" active member on this board, which would be the one you are using right now. The registration date of your present alias doesn't match the year you claimed earlier.
Just ask Rasol or Dhjeuti or Al Tutankhamun.
Lol; as quite a longstanding ES poster myself, what need would there be, to consult the above mentioned for? The forum's operating system is set up such that one cannot post under the exact same alias in two distinct registrations [hence, warranting modification to a given alias]; that's just the way it is. However, if you insist on not having been confused as I offered above as a possibility, then don't hesitate to post *a link* which would suggest that you were somehow able to pull off posting under the *same single alias* registered in *two or more different time frames*.
It is true that I had to register again becasue I forgot my password and the email account to my earlier account. It may have been something slightly different I suppose but I don't think so. Not sure, I don't remember.
Dhjeuti, did I have a differet name during the EvilEuro and Professor Hor days?
Posted by prmiddleeastern (Member # 14038) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djedefre:
Yes,I have seen Black people with the same skin tone as the Egyptians, no doubt about it.
Posted by prmiddleeastern (Member # 14038) on :
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
And I grow a thick chin hair just like this one, I don't grow a full beard.
Posted by Djehuti (Member # 6698) on :
quote:Originally posted by osirion:
There are black men that grow full beards. Regardless, I hope you're not saying the white guy above represents ancient Southwest Asians...
Posted by ackee (Member # 16371) on :
ackee, I think their DNA shoud be checked to see if they have any European admixture.
Posted by lamin (Member # 5777) on :
Not necessarily. The often photographed Jonas Savimbi, leader of the UNITA movement of Angola carried an impressive full beard. And that's the thing about Africans: you cannot really generalise about anything--except maybe being blond and blue-eyed.
Posted by prmiddleeastern (Member # 14038) on :
ok, lamin.
Posted by arabegypt (Member # 16469) on :
You are so wrong, Egyptians did not mix up with the invaders, Except for those in alexandria, most Egyptians have lived in lower areas of Egypt like Minia , Asyot, memphis
It was not until the founding of Fustat and later on Cairo that the Egyptians began gathering at one big place. The entire greek influance limited itself to alexandria, and the Romans didn't colonize Egypt, romans do not mix with rural egyptian peasants of the delta. And as I explained before the arabs did not mix with Egyptians
Address this If Egyptians where black, you would see at least come black coptic christians, yet they are all Qamhi coloured too, like the muslims. I haven't seen a single black coptic christian.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
do you think anybody buys your silly double act, osirion/xyyman. GTFOH 
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
This is another illustration showing people HOW MANY TIMES the racist have been wrong about Black People and if Ancient-Egypt was not Black, There would be enough illustrations of that because they had the ability & accuracy to portray any skin-tone."All I'm saying is they've been wrong before & it doesn't surprise me when they get it wrong Again & Again..."(AFRICANZ we're the Best period) PEACE!
Especially when it comes to the Pharoahs,if they were not of Black Origin, their distinction(in racial features) would be substantial to a Great extent. PEACE!
