Craniometric variation at Tell elAmarna: Egyptians or interlopers at the ‘‘Heretic King’s’’ city? GRETCHEN R. DABBS1 and SONIA R. ZAKRZEWSKI 2 . 1 Department of Anthropology, Southern Illinois University-Carbondale, 2 Department of Archaeology, University of Southampton. In the fifth year of his reign, the ancient Egyptian pharaoh Amenhotep IV severed his ties with the traditional religious institutions, changed his name to Akhenaten to reflect his ideological shift, and moved his capitol to a ‘‘virgin’’ site situated in middle Egypt (Akhetaten); commencing the Amarna Period (1352-1332BCE). Occupied for a scant 15-20 years the modern archaeological site of Tell el-Amarna provides a snapshot of life in Egypt during the Amarna Period. This project uses craniometric data from 73 individuals excavated from the South Tombs Cemetery (STC) at Tell el-Amarna to address questions of the morphological and genetic diversity of the worker population at Akhetaten and identify the potential for inmigration to the capitol city from areas outside of ancient Egypt. Preliminary data analysis suggests the Amarna sample is a highly diverse population. Discriminant function analysis failed to differentiate Amarna individuals based on gross cranial morphology, and only had middling success (9/18 individuals correctly classified) when facial variables were included, suggesting there are few defining ‘‘Amarna’’ cranial characters. Additionally, the coefficients of variation observed in the STC sample are greater than those for a pooled sample of Egyptians from the Badarian to Middle Kingdom, yet less than that observed for the pooled sample when an intrusive Greek sample is included. All of this suggests the inhabitants of Amarna came from throughout Egypt, not outside Egypt.
Egyptian body size and proportions: ecogeographic patterns in a mid-latitude population. MICHELLE H. RAXTER. Department of Anthropology, University of South Florida. Ecogeographic patterning in body size and proportions can provide important information about adaptation and population movements. This study investigated patterns in body size and proportions in a mid-latitude population. Ancient Egyptians occupied a middle latitude region at 31-21 o North. It was predicted that Egyptians would be intermediate between higher and lower latitude populations in body size and limb length ratios. The skeletal sample consisted of 492 males and 535 females, all adults from the Predynastic, Old Kingdom, Middle Kingdom, New Kingdom and Roman-Byzantine periods, a time spanning c. 5500 BCE – 600 CE. Egyptians were analyzed regionally by dividing the sample into northern and southern groups, as well as by comparison to Nubian groups. Egyptians were also assessed with respect to other populations in the world using anthropometrics from modern populations compiled by Ruff (1994) and skeletal measures from archaeologically-derived samples from Holliday (1995). Analysis of variance and Tukey’s post-hoc test were used to analyze differences among groups, while bivariate scatters were used to assess changes in measures with latitude. Results showed that region had no significant effect on male brachial index, however region did have a significant effect on female brachial index and on both male and female crural indices (p 5 \ 0.05). Nubians possessed slightly higher indices compared to ancient Egyptians. Ancient Egyptian limb length indices were more characteristic of tropical populations. Other indices such as body mass/stature and bi-iliac breadth/stature to stature were intermediate between higher latitude and lower latitude populations.
Posts: 2595 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
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So cool, one of my professors are presenting!
quote:Originally posted by L': ^NIIIICCE! Finally, someone who explores tropical ratios in a sub-tropical people!! Hopefully they realize migration must have been involved
Indeed, he even made a prediction and the result defied his prediction/null hypothesis, which warrants explanation. What other explanation is there other than migration or gene flow? I'd definitely like to see the full paper.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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No other explanation. And we already know from Underhill et al., 2001 and Bosch et al., 2001 that sub-Saharan East/Horn Africa populated the Nile Valley (Frigi et al., 2010). So I think they will finally come out with the connection between limb ratios Egyptians and sub-Saharan Africa. Also Interesting, we now know Nubians had tropical body plans as well (which was implied before by Zakrzewski)
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I anticipate the day when the full papers come out for these!
quote:Originally posted by .Charlie Bass.: Additionally, the coefficients of variation observed in the STC sample are greater than those for a pooled sample of Egyptians from the Badarian to Middle Kingdom, yet less than that observed for the pooled sample when an intrusive Greek sample is included.
Thus confirming what we all knew but some people don't want to acknowledge, namely that the Egyptian population grew more mixed with Eurasians during the Late Period!
quote:Ancient Egyptian limb length indices were more characteristic of tropical populations. Other indices such as body mass/stature and bi-iliac breadth/stature to stature were intermediate between higher latitude and lower latitude populations.
So Egyptians had tropical limb proportions but an intermediate body mass between temperate and tropically adapted populations...honestly a strange finding. Any ideas for how this could be explained?
I'd also like to read the paper to see if there's any change in indices over time.
Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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^They ultimately came from the south but their environment began to work on them perhaps? I know diet also affects stature. Maybe the Egyptians were characteristically shorter than other tropical populations? Gene flow from the outside is another explanation, perhaps larger body mass was introduced from the north and was somehow selected for, but in the absence of sustained gene flow ('sustained' gene flow would have affected limb lengths as well I'd assume)?
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Temperature and enviroment can have a real-time effect on living individuals. The Egyptians didn't necessarily come from the south even though I imagine alot eventually did.
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Sundjata: I know diet also affects stature. Maybe the Egyptians were characteristically taller than other tropical populations?
I'm inclined to go with these hypotheses, because with the other two you'd expect a significant de-tropicalization of limb proportions along with the body mass changes.
Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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^Indeed, and let me rephrase that. Rather, the opposite would be suggested (that the Egyptians were shorter than other tropical populations but had same/similar skeletal body mass).
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Bones (and limbs) have differing growth curves (Harrison, 1992). At all ages, the dimensions of the head are nearer maturity (in advance) than those of the trunk, the trunk is in advance of the limbs, and the more peripheral parts of the limbs are in advance of the more proximal portions (Harrison, 1992; Sinclair, 1989). Maturity is advanced distally relative to delayed maturity proximally. Maximum growth is attained first by the tibia, then the femur, then the fibula, and after that the bones of the upper extremity (Malina and Bouchard, 1991).Since different parts of the body experience growth spurts at different times, they have differing “sensitive” periods. A major insult, such as food shortage, will therefore differentially affect portions of the body so that portions of the body can be stunted to differing levels. Stunting usually occurs during the childhood period of growth, thereby mainly affecting the limbs (Martorell and Habicht, 1986). Growth impairment through the first few years of life largely determines the small stature exhibited by adults from modern developing countries. Within a malnourished population, those who exhibit a great degree of stunting as young children are those who are later the shortest adults. If very early developmental events program abnormal growth to occur during a particular period, there may not be the capacity or stimulus to catch up when the child enters a later period (Golden, 1996). Thus, adult stature can be considered a reasonable indicator of childhood condition, following the model shown in Figure 1."
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I did some research on ancient Egyptian average height, and I found figures claiming that 5'7'' to 6' were typical (by comparison, the Dinka of southern Sudan have an average height of around 5'9'').
Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Also, this is what Zakrzewski (2003) says about ancient Egyptian stature:
quote:Stature was computed using equations derived by Robins and Shute (1986) specifically for Egyptian populations. The computed adult statures are shown in Figure 3 (mean data in Table 3). Table 4 presents the ANOVA results for computed mean stature by time period. Males are shown to be significantly taller than females in all time periods, and overall, a significant change in stature occurs across the time periods studied. The pattern of change in stature differs between males and females. Both sexes exhibit the smallest stature in the Badarian period, and have a rapid gain in height through the Early Predynastic period. Male stature reaches a maximum during the Early Dynastic period, while females continue to increase (albeit very slightly) in height until the OK.
and
quote:Table 6. By computing ratios, it is the relationship of the segments to each other that is studied, rather than absolute lengths. This means that the major effects of sexual dimorphism should therefore be removed. This asexual standardization is found for all ratios and indices, except the intermembral index (which continues to exhibit statistically signifi- cant differences between sexes). The significant result found in the latter may result from differing body plans in males and females (i.e., females have significantly longer lower limbs relative to their upper limbs than males). The males actually have both upper and lower limbs that are significantly longer than those of the females (upper limb length, P 0.001, n 83; lower limb length, P 0.001, n 86)
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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To me, it would seem like a lot of folks could be shorter compared to today back then and why do you even assume the correlation was the smaller the body mass the further from the equator?
I though less equatorial people were huskier and what about all the Pygmy populations in the tropics?
If it is as you guys say, Zakrzewski explains it.
Whatever the case, it may also be explained by Sundjata's idea about their convergent adaptation to their environment with the ratios apparently taking longer to adjust than overall mass.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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Actually there is a misuse of the term tropically adapted. It has to do more with temperature only I believe.
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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^ Temperature is only part of it. There is also high levels of UV radiation. Each respectively corresponds with Allen's rule and Glogger's rule in biology. Look these terms up yourself. If anything it is YOU who misuses the phrase. Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by A Simple Girl: Actually there is a misuse of the term tropically adapted. It has to do more with temperature only I believe.
Give the girl a treat LOL Of course temperature is involved, TROPICAL TEMPERATURE LOL! I already gave you most recent studies in my other thread (Raxter et al) including one on Egypt's climate, which is NOT tropical, but Arid
Posts: 1502 | From: Dies Irae | Registered: Oct 2010
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quote:Originally posted by A Simple Girl: Actually there is a misuse of the term tropically adapted. It has to do more with temperature only I believe.
Give the girl a treat LOL Of course temperature is involved, TROPICAL TEMPERATURE LOL! I already gave you most recent studies in my other thread (Raxter et al) including one on Egypt's climate, which is NOT tropical, but Arid
The effect on limbs is thermal, whether in arid or humid conditions. Temperature is the key.
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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^ True. According to Allen's Rule in biology, endothermic (warm-blooded to Simpeton) animals who live in warmer climates have longer limb ratios for heat dissipation. In colder climates limb ratios are shorter for heat conservation. Then you have Glogger's rule which states that endothermic animals living in tropical climates also have more pigmentation like melanin for protection from high UV light. Thus long limb ratios as well as black skin are BOTH tropical adaptations.
quote:Originally posted by L': Give the girl a treat LOL Of course temperature is involved, TROPICAL TEMPERATURE LOL! I already gave you most recent studies in my other thread (Raxter et al) including one on Egypt's climate, which is NOT tropical, but Arid
Actually tropical is a description of latitude specifically areas around the equator that get the most sunlight. Aridity is a description of humidity or rather the lack thereof. There are tropical deserts that are very arid as well as very tropical.
The point being is that the majority of Egypt is in the subtropics (just outside the tropic zone) with only its southernmost portion remaining in the tropics. As such for the Egyptians to possess "supra"-tropical builds means they had to originate farther south.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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I'm not seeing that the Egyptians were supra-tropical. In fact it looks as if they fall somewhat short of the extreme of being so-called tropically adapted.
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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^ Not according to most studies. Besides they don't have to be "extreme" to be still tropically adapted. Many West Africans and southern Africans aren't extreme either but they are still tropically adapted.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ True. According to Allen's Rule in biology, endothermic (warm-blooded to Simpeton) animals who live in warmer climates have longer limb ratios for heat dissipation. In colder climates limb ratios are shorter for heat conservation. Then you have Glogger's rule which states that endothermic animals living in tropical climates also have more pigmentation like melanin for protection from high UV light. Thus long limb ratios as well as black skin are BOTH tropical adaptations.
quote:Originally posted by L': Give the girl a treat LOL Of course temperature is involved, TROPICAL TEMPERATURE LOL! I already gave you most recent studies in my other thread (Raxter et al) including one on Egypt's climate, which is NOT tropical, but Arid
Actually tropical is a description of latitude specifically areas around the equator that get the most sunlight. Aridity is a description of humidity or rather the lack thereof. There are tropical deserts that are very arid as well as very tropical.
The point being is that the majority of Egypt is in the subtropics (just outside the tropic zone) with only its southernmost portion remaining in the tropics. As such for the Egyptians to possess "supra"-tropical builds means they had to originate farther south.
The tropic of cancer has nothing to do with tropical limb ratios though. When I say tropical temperature, I mean tropical climate- i.e., hot and dry. Egypt today is Arid, and in the past it was mostly arid with short humid phases. Obviously not a place where people would acquire tropical limb ratios.
The didn't possess supra-tropical builds, supra-tropical= outside the tropics. Tropical adaptions correlate with mean annual temperature, and we all know Egypt cools down significantly during the night time.
Egypt's desert isn't tropical at all, it is one of the most arid regions on Earth:
quote:The eastern Sahara Desert, in northeastern Africa, is presently one of the most arid regions on Earth
Source:Stratigraphy and sedimentology at Bir Sahara, Egypt: Environments, climate change and the Middle Paleolithic
Egypt's desert cannot be considered tropical as it is only arid as it is dry etc., Tropical would mean hot and humid. Tropical adaptions are the result of hot and dry climates whereas humid environments are moist.
quote:Originally posted by Simple Girl: I'm not seeing that the Egyptians were supra-tropical. In fact it looks as if they fall somewhat short of the extreme of being so-called tropically adapted.
Were you dropped on the head as a small child? Egypt is supra-tropical which means OUTSIDE of the tropics:
quote:Today, the Western Desert of Egypt is part of the hyperarid Eastern Sahara (UNESCO, 1977) and belongs to the subtropical desert climate zone (Griffiths, 1987). High temperatures, low humidity and strong winds cause high potential evaporation rates in excess of 5000mm per year (Griffiths, 1972; Haynes 1982; Darius, 1989). In contrast, the interpolated annual precipitation sum is less than 5mm with sparse rain on only 1–5 days per year on average (New et al., 1999)
Source: Palaeoenvironment and Holocene land use of Djara, Western Desert of Egypt
posted
You seem to miss the whole point. It is not really a matter of tropics and more so a matter of temperature only. You stated that tropical is hot and dry. Is it you that has been dropped on your head?
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by A Simple Girl: You seem to miss the whole point. It is not really a matter of tropics and more so a matter of temperature only. You stated that tropical is hot and dry. Is it you that has been dropped on your head?
Egypt is NOT a hot dry climate, it is one of the most arid places on earth. In the past it was ARID with some HUMID phases. A tropical climate is a non-Arid climate. Elongated features, tropical adaptions are adaptions to a hot dry climate
Posts: 1502 | From: Dies Irae | Registered: Oct 2010
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On another note, I'm glad more studies in regards to Egyptian limb ratios are coming out. Stops the idiocy going around recently that only MK Nubians were tropically adapted LOL!
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quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: I did some research on ancient Egyptian average height, and I found figures claiming that 5'7'' to 6' were typical (by comparison, the Dinka of southern Sudan have an average height of around 5'9'').
5'9'' - This cant be right. I would need to see a source for this. I have yet to meet a Dinka man under 5' 11' - 6 feet.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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^Yea, I found that figure to be a bit suspect as well but I wasn't sure, so...
quote:Originally posted by Whatbox: [QB] To me, it would seem like a lot of folks could be shorter compared to today back then and why do you even assume the correlation was the smaller the body mass the further from the equator?
I though less equatorial people were huskier and what about all the Pygmy populations in the tropics?
If it is as you guys say, Zakrzewski explains it.
Whatever the case, it may also be explained by Sundjata's idea about their convergent adaptation to their environment with the ratios apparently taking longer to adjust than overall mass.
You are correct but what we were trying to explain was the mass/stature ratio and one explanation would be because they're short but had same body thickness, thus more intermediate ratio closer to the overall huskier northerner. Hence, those East African long distance runners so famous in the U.S. often display tall/sleek body builds that is efficient for alleviating heat. If Egyptians kept this relatively sleek build but became shorter, that could explain the difference in ratios.
-- As for the Pygmies, they are unique and there are a dozen theories concerning why they are so short (humidity, closed environment, thrifty genotype response). In any case they are an exception (not what would be predicted within the greater region).
As for the latter hypothesis, I think that may be plausible considering they'd have to have begun adapting to their own environment at some point in one way or another.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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The pygmies may have a small stature but still retain tropical limb proportions, at least as reflected by reported crural index, ca. 85.1%.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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It has two main branches—a long and linear body build branch that includes the Egyptians, Sub-Saharan Africans (except for the Pygmies), and African-Americans and a second, less linear body form branch that includes the Inuit, Europeans, Euro-Americans, Puebloans, Nubians, and Pygmies. Note that the Nubians used in this study are thought by some to represent an immigrant population from Europe or Western Asia [see Holliday (1995)]. - by T.W. Holliday, Body proportions of circumpolar peoples as evidenced from skeletal data: Ipiutak and Tigara (Point Hope) versus Kodiak Island Inuit, 2009.
The Egyptians are mentioned here; reference to "ancient Egyptians"? In any event, what does this mean? The body linearity indirectly implies that the "Egyptians" body mass is in the same range as those of "sub-Saharan" Africans. Notice that the pgymies are an outlier amongst the "sub-Saharan" specimens. The likely reason for this, is that their small body stature is likely having an effect on the body mass at some level or another. Otherwise, as posted above, reports on limb-proportions indicate that the pygmy adhere to the tropical pattern.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Ancient "Middle Easterners" lack the tropical body proportions of ancient Egyptians
QUOTE: "There is long-standing disagreement regarding Upper Pleistocene human evolution in Western Asia, particularly the Levant. Some argue that there were two different populations, perhaps different species, of Upper Pleistocene Levantine hominids. The first, from the Israeli sites of Qafzeh and Skhul, is anatomically modern. The second, from sites such as Amud, Kebara, and Tabun, is archaic, or "Neandertal" in morphology. Others argue that this is a false dichotomy and that all of these hominids belong to a single, highly variable population. In this paper I attempt to resolve this issue by examining postcranial measures reflective of body shape. Results indicate that the Qafzeh-Skhul hominids have African-like, or tropically adapted, proportions, while those from Amud, Kebara, Tabun, and Shanidar (Iraq) have more European-like, or cold-adapted, proportions. This suggests that there were in fact two distinct Western Asian populations and that the Qafzeh-Skhul hominids were likely African in origin - a result consistent with the "Replacement" model of modern human origins.
"What we can say, however, is that in the Holocene, humans from southwest Asia do not exhibit tropically adapted body shape (Crognier 1981; Eveleth and Tanner 1976; Schreider 1975). In addition, while Levantine winters today are generally characterized as mild (Henkin et al. 1998), they are nonetheless quite often cold, with frequent snowfall—for example, the winter of 1992 was particularly cold and snowy in Israel (Vishnevetsky and Steinberger 19%). Given that the Holocene is a warm phase, yet recent Levantine humans do not exhibit a tropically adapted morphology, there is little reason to assume that in the (generally colder) Pleistocene epoch, natural selection alone could result in tropically adapted morphology in the region.
Thus, the discovery of tropically adapted hominids in the region would therefore likely indicate population dispersal from the TROPICS, and the most logical geographic source for such an influx is Africa. In this regard, Trinkaus (1981, 1984, 1995) and Ruff (1994) have argued that the high brachial and crural indices, narrow biiliac breadths, and small relative femoral head sizes of the Qafzeh-Skhul hominids suggest an influx of African genes associated with the emergence of modern humans in the region."
---Trenton Holliday (2000) Evolution at the Crossroads: Modern Human Emergence in Western Asia. American Anthropologist. New Series, Vol. 102, No. 1, 54-68
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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OK, so we've addressed the body mass/stature ratio, but cany anyone explain the bi-iliac breadth (I presume this means width of the pelvis) also being intermediate?
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Bi-iliac ranges are correlated with many things including thermoregulation and locomotion. They are also correlated with stature, and with a shift to agriculture. Hence an "intermediate" bi-iliac range could be easily due to any of the above, including a shift from the mixed economy pre-dynastics, to the more agricultural early dynastic/dynastic types. Such ranges change slowly hence there would not be dramatic jumps in the data over time. Thus "incoming Caucasoids" are not needed to explain "intermediate" bi-iliac ranges lest anyone be tempted to make that interpretation.
QUOTES: "Furthermore bi-iliac breadth appears to change slowly over time, likely due to multiple factors (thermoregulation, obstetrics, locomotion) influencing its shape (Ruff 1994; Auerback 2007).."
"Generally narrower body breaths of the foragers contrast markedy with the wider-bodied agriculturalists. Although bi-iliac breadth has been argued to be stable over long periods of time (Auerbach, 2007), this shift in mean body breath may be indicative of changes correlated with subsistence economy."
"Any use of the bi-iliac breath/stature body mass estimations would inherently reflect changes in stature.." -- Pihasi & Stock Human Bioarchaeology of the Transition to Agriculture edited by Ron Pinhasi, Jay T. Stock
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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Per WHite Nord: So basically Lower Egyptians came from the East and adapted to the hot climate of Egypt, while the Upper Egyptians are group in the middle of the two. In other words "Super Negroid" Egyptians has been debunked, with these new methods.
Don't celebrate too soon Ace. Raxter is a solid researcher, but there are some flaws in her presentation. In fact, your use of her bi-iliac ranges will not do much for your much touted "wandering Caucasoids" project.
In earlier studies (one of which Raxter herself did) US Blacks as a tropial people were used as a stand-in to estimate height of Ancient Egyptians. In those studies Black AMericans were found to cluster closer to Ancient Egyotians than EUropeans. That finding is not changed at all by Raxter's 2011 study. In fact, the new study AGAIN confirms that tropical peoples have similar limb proportions- hence Egyptians and Nubians cluster thereby. And the clustering of Black Americans has not changed one bit. Sorry.
Bi-iliac ranges are correlated with many things including thermoregulation and locomotion. They are also correlated with stature, and with a shift to agriculture. Hence an "intermediate" bi-iliac range could be easily due to any of the above, including a shift from the mixed economy pre-dynastics, to the more agricultural early dynastic/dynastic types. Such ranges change slowly hence there would not be dramatic jumps in the data over time. Thus "incoming Caucasoids" are not needed to explain "intermediate" bi-iliac ranges lest anyone be tempted to make that interpretation.
QUOTES: "Furthermore bi-iliac breadth appears to change slowly over time, likely due to multiple factors (thermoregulation, obstetrics, locomotion) influencing its shape (Ruff 1994; Auerback 2007).."
"Generally narrower body breaths of the foragers contrast markedy with the wider-bodied agriculturalists. Although bi-iliac breadth has been argued to be stable over long periods of time (Auerbach, 2007), this shift in mean body breath may be indicative of changes correlated with subsistence economy."
"Any use of the bi-iliac breath/stature body mass estimations would inherently reflect changes in stature.."
-- Pihasi & Stock. 2011. Human Bioarchaeology of the Transition to Agriculture
1--"Ancient Egyptians as a whole generally exhibit intermediate body breadths relative to higher and lower latitude populations, with Lower Egyptians possessing wider body breadths, as well as lower brachial and crural indices, compared to Upper Egyptians and Upper Nubians. This may suggest that Egyptians are closely related to circum-Mediterranean and/or Near Eastern groups, but quickly developed limb length proportions more suited to their present very hot environments. These results may also reflect the greater plasticity of limb length compared to body breadth.
^1-- Actually it doesn't automatically "suggest" AEs are "closely related to circum-Mediterranean and/or Near Eastern groups." [/b]All the data shows is that the peoples of the Nile Valley had built-in native variation as expected for the many different micro climes of tropical Africa. Almost 20% of Egypt falls within the tropic zone by the way.
And as noted above, bi-ilac ranges/breadth are also correlated with several other things such as changes in diet and lifestyle as other scholars show. For example agriculturalists tend to have greater body breath than exclusively foraging/hunting peoples. It does not automatically follow that greather breadth ranges mean "circum-Mediterranean" relations. Rather the shift to more dynastic agriculture, from a more mixed pre- dynastic economy can well accommodate changes in body breath without the need for any mass influx of "Near Easterners."
See quotes above to this effect. And it should be noted that the pre-Dynastic Badari, who cluster with tropical Africans were ALREADY farming and stock-raising with some hunting/ foraging on the side. In other words, tropical African variants were ALREADY engaging in the agricultural practices that are correlated with greater bi-iliac ranges. "Diffusion" from the Middle East of plants such as wheat, is just that, diffusuion that was adopted by the indigenous tropical variants on their own terms. They could grow wheat or peas, on their own ground, without needing any "wandering Caucasoids" to be present. This is the precise point stated by Keita 2005, 1992.
QUOTE: Furthermore, the archaeology of northern Africa DOES NOT SUPPORT demic diffusion of farming from the Near East. The evidence presented by Wetterstrom indicates that early African farmers in the Fayum initially INCORPORATED Near Eastern domesticates INTO an INDIGENOUS foraging strategy, and only OVER TIME developed a dependence on horticulture. This is inconsistent with in-migrating farming settlers, who would have brought a more ABRUPT change in subsistence strategy. "The same archaeological pattern occurs west of Egypt, where domestic animals and, later, grains were GRADUALLY adopted after 8000 yr B.P. into the established pre-agricultural Capsian culture, present across the northern Sahara since 10,000 yr B.P. From this continuity, it has been argued that the pre-food-production Capsian peoples spoke languages ancestral to the Berber and/or Chadic branches of Afroasiatic, placing the proto-Afroasiatic period distinctly before 10,000 yr B.P." --Source: The Origins of Afroasiatic Christopher Ehret, S. O. Y. Keita, Paul Newman;, and Peter Bellwood Science 3 December 2004: Vol. 306. no. 5702, p. 1680 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2--Stature regression equations derived from American Black populations may therefore not be appropriate to estimate the statures of ancient Egyptians.
^^In earlier studies (one of which Raxter herself did) US Blacks as a tropial people were used as a stand-in to estimate height of Ancient Egyptians. In those studies Black AMericans were found to cluster closer to Ancient Egyotians than EUropeans. That finding is not changed at all by Raxter's 2011 study. In fact, the new study AGAIN confirms that tropical peoples have similar limb proportions- hence Egyptians and Nubians cluster thereby.
Even if stature was over-estimated in earlier studies as Raxter claims, the data STILL showed US Blacks closer to AE proportions. Whether the use of US blacks is "appropriate" to estimate the statures of AEs makes little difference because in limb to limb comparison, the AE's are closer to the US blacks. Throw out the stature estimation task and this central result STILL stands.
Even if stature estimation is excluded the bottom line results are STILL the same- the AE's cluster more closely with US Blacks. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3-- but quickly developed limb length proportions more suited to their present very hot environments.
^^A misleading claim by Raxter. Actually limb length proportions do not "quickly" change, but are heavily genetically embedded.
Limb proportions DON'T "quickly" change. They are rather slow in fact. Hence tropical proportions found in the Nile Valley are not the product of "Mediterranean" or "Middle Eastern" migrants who "quickly" changed to "tropical Africans." Limb proportions don't work that way. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4-- The present results for bi-iliac breadth are also consistent with various genetic studies that have found modern Egyptians to have close affinities to Middle and Near Easterners (Manni et al., 2002; Arredi et al., 2004; Shepard and Herrera, 2006; Rowold et al., 2007) and Southern Europeans/Mediterranean groups (Capelli et al., 2006). ^^No surprise there. We all know MODERN Egyptians are not identical to the ancients and are more varied, a result that shows up in ancient samples as well. Note below that Zakrewski found one widely used sampling set was not at all typically Egyptian. And whether samples were pooled or not pooled in other studies MADE LITTLE DIFFERENCE. The AEs STILL cluster more with tropical Africans than Europeans or "Middle Easterners."
Some tail end sampling sets are not typical of Ancient Egypt.
5--Some of these authors suggested their results may have been associated with a diffusion from the Near East during the expansion of early food-producing societies ^^Sure some plant and animal domesticates filtered into AE from the "Middle East." That was never at issue. But most of the archaelogical evidence shows no mass influx of "Caucasoids" or "circum-Mediterranean" types to instruct the natives. QUOTE:
Ovacaprines appear in the western desert before the Nile valley proper (Wendorf and Schild 2001). However, it is significant that ancient Egyptian words for the major Near Eastern domesticates - Sheep, goat, barley, and wheat - are not loans from either Semitic, Sumerian, or Indo-European. This argues against a mass settler colonization (at replacement levels) of the Nile valley from the Near East at this time. This is in contrast with some words for domesticates in some early Semitic languages, which are likely Sumerian loan words (Diakonoff 1981).. This evidence indicates that northern Nile valley peoples apparently incorporated the Near Eastern domesticates into a Nilotic foraging subsistence tradition on their own terms (Wetterstrom 1993). There was apparently no “Neolithic revolution” brought by settler colonization, but a gradual process of neolithicization (Midant-Reynes 2000). -- Keita and Boyce, Genetics, Egypt, And History: Interpreting Geographical Patterns Of Y Chromosome Variation, History in Africa 32 (2005) 221-246 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6--Ancient Egyptians "as a whole" Sure. If you lump in the more varied New Kingdom types and Hyskos/Roman era/Greek era types you will get more variation. Everyone knows the tail end period of AE had more variation. Even Zakrewski says that one tail-end series is not "typically" Egyptian. That was never at issue. What is at issue is the genesis and maintenance of the pre-Dynastic and early Dynastic period. Later periods were to have a more mixed pattern, The 12th Dynasty for example had several pharaohs of Nubian origin (Yurco 1989), as did the 18th, as did the 25th. Raxter is eager to highlight the "close links" with "circum-Mediterranean" types it seems, but not the other way.
Whether stature estimation is involved makes little difference. AEs STILL cluster more with Black Americans. ANd limb proportions do not "quickly" change. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7-- FInally Raster's presentation doesnt make a dime's worth of difference on the fact that based on limb proportions, AEs cluster more towards Nubians and other tropical Africans than EUropeans or Middle Easterners. Body breath indexes are accounted for via dietary/economic shifts and do not necessarily point to any influx of "Middle Esterners" or "Mediterraneans"
Note how Raxter presents the data:
A-- It is admitted that the AEs have more tropical proportions. B-- It is admitted that the Nubians have even more tropical proportions. C-- But then the author quickly leaps to highlight body breath and talk about close links with Europe and the Mid East.
--In fact though, there are EVEN CLOSER links in A and B above than C, between Egytians and other Africans via limb proportions. Highlighting body breadth cannot obscure this reality.
Why not the flip side of the "intermediate" body breadth picture? If half is Euro/Mideast, then the other half is African. But why is the highlight only one way towards the EUro/Mideast side where body breadth is concerned?[/n]
And if body breadth is "intermediate"- half of the "close links" - then the second half of the body breath equation is with tropical Africans. If intermediate body breadths tell about Euro/Mid East Links, then THE OTHER HALF LIKEWISE SPEAKS OF AFRICAN LINKS. But how come Raxter never uses a consistent approach on this count - on the flip side?
[b]Sorry... Nord. Back to the "biodiversity" cellar for you.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova:
A-- It is admitted that the AEs have more tropical proportions. B-- It is admitted that the Nubians have even more tropical proportions. C-- But then the author quickly leaps to highlight body breath and talk about close links with Europe and the Mid East.
--In fact though, there are EVEN CLOSER links in A and B above than C, between Egytians and other Africans via limb proportions. Highlighting body breadth cannot obscure this reality.
allow me to correct the analysis, being more fair to what is being claimed rather than trying to slant what is being claimed:
A-- It is claimed that the AEs have more "tropically adapted limbs" B-- It is claimed that the Nubians have even more "tropically adapted limbs" C--It is claimed that the body breadth of Egyptians was closer to "circum-Mediterannean and/or Near Eastern groups"
posted
There is nothing to "correct". It is noted that Raxter takes account of the body breath part of the picture. Fine. But my point is:
(a) There is an even closer link between Egyptians and Nubians, via limb proportions (validating earlier studies)
(b) Raxter downplays the flip side- of the equation: If body breath is "intermediate" - you could show a link with Euro/Mid Easterners- fine- but the flip side of that is a link with African populations as well, and the bi-iliac range is clearly influenced by a more agricultural lifestyle. This lifestyle was well in place circa 10,000 BC and is clearly seen among the Badarians.
(c) Raxter's blanket claim of Egyotians as a whole is flawed. Her main data point is Lower Egypt. But even this varied over time. In the early period, the limb length proportions of northern samples, per Kemp cited above show more affinities with the Africans rather than the Europeans. Also flawed is Raxter's blanket notion of "quickly developing" tropical limb lengths, for which she offers little clear evidence. To the contrary, as other scholars show, limb proportions are relatively stable, genetically embedded, and do not quickly change.
If anything the weight of the overall Nile Valley picture also points to another alternative- that of tropical Africans with extreme proportions- having such proportions modified over the millennia by (a) cooler Mediterranean temperatures of Egypt, and (b) a shift to a more agricultural lifestyle.
QUOTE:
"Body proportions are under strong climatic selection and evince remarkable stability within regional lineages. As such, they offer a viable and robust alternative to cranio-facial data in assessing hypothesised continuity and replacement with the transition to agro-pastoralism in central Europe. Humero-clavicular, brachial and crural indices in a large sample (n=75) of Linienbandkeramik (LBK), Late Neolithic and Early Bronze Age specimens from the middle Elbe-Saale-Werra valley (MESV) were compared with Eurasian and African terminal Pleistocene, European Mesolithic and geographically disparate recent human specimens. Mesolithic Europeans display considerable variation in humero-clavicular and brachial indices yet none approach the extreme "hyper-polar" morphology of LBK humans from the MESV. In contrast, Late Neolithic and Early Bronze Age peoples display elongated brachial and crural indices reminiscent of terminal Pleistocene and "tropically adapted" recent humans. These marked morphological changes likely reflect exogenous immigration during the terminal Fourth millennium cal BC. Population expansion and diffusion is a function of increased mobility and settlement dispersal concomitant with significant technological and subsistence changes in later Neolithic societies during the late fourth millennium cal BCE." -- Gallagher et al. "Population continuity, demic diffusion and Neolithic origins in central-southern Germany: the evidence from body proportions." Homo. 2009;60(2):95-126. Epub 2009 Mar 4.
In short, the case of the Nile Valley may just simply repeat the OOA pattern elsewhere- tropically adapted variants moving into more temperate climes and adapting to those climes, AND to changes in subsistence, like more agriculture. This is what happened with OOA migrations, and has more support from the archaelogical record than an influx of reputed "Mediterranean" types.
In any event though, it makes little diff. As can be seen via your own screen shot, the Egyptians are more similar to the Nubians via limb proportions. Both peoples are from warm climes as Raxter notes. Hence the link with US blacks on limb proportions, another tropical people from warm climes, and who have the same typical linear body build, IS NOT IN THE SLIGHTEST BIT AFFECTED. The limb proportion data still stands. Body mass variation is accounted for by (a) adaptation to cooler climates, and (b) a shift to more agriculture. This does not at all rule out small scale migration from the Levant/Maghreb. We all know it occurred, as well as trade links, prisoners taken in warfare from Palestine etc. But mass influxes of "Mediterraneans" or "Middle Easterners" are not at all needed to give the peoples of the Nile Valley diversity or variation in body mass.
QUOTE: "In this study, skeletal measures of body size were analysed to evaluate the long-term impact of the transition to agriculture in the Nile Valley.. Here we demonstrate that this transition is also associated with a modest reduction and subsequent improvement in stature and body mass. This trend could be broadly interpreted in the context of models of relationship between body size and nutrition." - Pinhasi and Stock 2011. Human Boarchaeology of the Transition to Agriculture
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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