quote:Originally posted by Confirming Truth: You find similar practice in modern time with the Negro. Called skin bleaching, the Negro lightens his/her skin with a topical cream to look more European white.
Ancient cultural practice of augmenting skin tone to appear more in line with the ruddy or tan Egyptian.
Modern cultural practice of chemically altering the skin tone to appear more attractive like white Europeans.
What a fool, and a idiot at that, does the moron NOT realize the peice he is using is a copy not the original...Lets compare the [/b]Original[/b] art work of the above from the Tomb of Rekhmire shall we..
(Reddis Brown Kushites and a Black(Faded) Kushite in the Middle)
Posted by -Just Call Me Jari- (Member # 14451) on :
As you can see natural skin color tone, but I understand why they feel threatened, this means the Nubians had the same skin color as the Egyptians..
I feel the hurt...
Compare to Egyptian skin color from the very same tomb...
Posted by Confirming Truth (Member # 17678) on :
*You are fighting a losing battle, clown*
You find similar practice in modern time with the Negro. Called skin bleaching, the Negro lightens his/her skin with a topical cream to look more European white.
Ancient cultural practice of augmenting skin tone to appear more in line with the ruddy or tan Egyptian.
Modern cultural practice of chemically altering the skin tone to appear more attractive like white Europeans.
Posted by -Just Call Me Jari- (Member # 14451) on :
Now for the Final Nail in the Coffin...
How Egyptians depicted Kuhsites in other tombs...this also debunks the whole Red Kushites=Women...In this tomb you see clear males With no shirt (and no feminine breasts)..and Red/Light Skin..
Tomb of Huy..
Another Male Red NHSY/Nubain
Posted by Confirming Truth (Member # 17678) on :
^You one ignant fool. Explain the nigglos with the red hair. How comes they ah gots some red hair, clown?
Posted by -Just Call Me Jari- (Member # 14451) on :
Ignoramus, the Kushites wore Skullcap wigs, the Kushites were s fond of Skullcaps that their Royals donned them as sign of Nobility...
Here is the same type of Skull Cap/Wig being worn by Egyptian Royalty..
compare the shape of King Tut's blue Wig to the Blonde and Red wigs of the Kushites...
You lost bro...Sorry
another Humilation
Posted by Confirming Truth (Member # 17678) on :
Blind mother fvcker, you must have cataract of the nile in your eye. Let me blow it up in your face so you can see it, blind bat.
So this is a skully to you, clown?
Posted by Confirming Truth (Member # 17678) on :
Game over, Clown.
Posted by awlaadberry (Member # 17426) on :
quote:Originally posted by Confirming Truth: ^You one ignant fool. Explain the nigglos with the red hair. How comes they ah gots some red hair, clown?
What does their hair being red have to do with the subject at hand? I don't get it.
Posted by Confirming Truth (Member # 17678) on :
^First off, the author of the thread, Mr clown, needs to be checked. Once I check mate this fool (which I did) then we can go back to the original topic.
Posted by -Just Call Me Jari- (Member # 14451) on :
Alwaadberry its called Strawman fallacy..
quote:Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:Originally posted by Confirming Truth: ^You one ignant fool. Explain the nigglos with the red hair. How comes they ah gots some red hair, clown?
What does their hair being red have to do with the subject at hand? I don't get it.
Posted by anguishofbeing (Member # 16736) on :
its called defeat. but he's use to it by now.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Supposedly all of the following people are Nuba, but I'm not sure who put together this combination of photos and where each comes from. Nevertheless I will comment and assume they are all Sudanese.
A) woman, dark reddish brown, body covereed in red ochre pigments {not henna!] B) two women covered in red ochre pigments _________________________________________________
C) woman covered in red ochre pigments D) Man with dark brown skin tone with some slight reddish qualities, seems to be no red ochre pigments applied to skin -that's traditionally supposed to be for women
E) man (possibly woman?) dark brown skin tone with black paint applied in pattern around eyes and nose hair colored with red ochre pigment F) woman, natural skin tone, nearly jet black
When you look at the Sudanese (Noba?) people above the one's with their natural skin color incude jet black and dark brown skin tones. Some of the dark brown skin tones are slightly reddish. The jet black woman F) may be Dinka not Noba but still Nehesy.
The below appears like an accurate photo of a tomb painting
^^^^ Here you see a range of a few different skin tones, different but not as drastically differnt looking as the below
^^^^ this seems to be an illustation representing a tomb wall, but not a tomb wall photo. The color of the reddish figures may have been enhanced slightly but it still fits in with the trend of varied skin tones both in photos of modern day people of the area and in the more accurate looking tomb wall photos of similar scenes of Kushites.
I. the lioness, retract my "they were females theory" and retract my "colored in red ochre" in these paintings theory.
Nevertheless you must admit that illustration above is sort of odd looking with just two types and strikingly different colored.
Anyway I come to the conclusion that as today, the ancient Nubians included both almost jet black people and dark brown skinned people some of the dark brown slightly reddish. This dark reddish brown matching some of the Egyptians. Many of the Egyptians had this same skin tone but did not also have an almost jet black element. You see it in some the kings representing Osiris but of the ancient Egyptian painting you do not see groups of regular Egyptians painted jet black ( but this is besides the point we are talking about Nubians)
Some had theorized that red Noba may have been red because of Arab infuence. I don't think so these paintings are probably to early for that.
The reason for these different looking skin colors in the paintings, yes, African diveristy.
Most Africans who are 100% indigenous are various shades of brown. Most are not as dark as the Dinka who range from dark brown to nearly black.
lioness productions team 2011-2013
Posted by Ish Gebor AKA Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Confirming Truth: *You are fighting a losing battle, clown*
You find similar practice in modern time with the Negro. Called skin bleaching, the Negro lightens his/her skin with a topical cream to look more European white.
Ancient cultural practice of augmenting skin tone to appear more in line with the ruddy or tan Egyptian.
Modern cultural practice of chemically altering the skin tone to appear more attractive like white Europeans.
Skin bleach cream is meant for evening uneven pigmentspots. Not to use it over the entire body, as a skinlightning cream.
Btw, Indians happen to use skin bleach more often, As a skinlightning cream.
Posted by Ish Gebor AKA Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by awlaadberry:
quote:Originally posted by Confirming Truth: ^You one ignant fool. Explain the nigglos with the red hair. How comes they ah gots some red hair, clown?
What does their hair being red have to do with the subject at hand? I don't get it.
Its weird, we have shown indigenous Africans with red hair. Some natural, others due to malnourished, protein deficiency.
Posted by Ish Gebor AKA Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Confirming Truth: Game over, Clown.
quote:Originally posted by Confirming Truth: Blind mother fvcker, you must have cataract of the nile in your eye. Let me blow it up in your face so you can see it, blind bat.
So this is a skully to you, clown?
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
also many ancient writers didn't have a word for brown and used the same word they woul used for red to describe brown. So red could mean, chocolate brown, reddish brown/ruddy or red.
Posted by Ish Gebor AKA Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor AKA Troll Patrol:
quote:Originally posted by Confirming Truth: Game over, Clown.
quote:Originally posted by Confirming Truth: Blind mother fvcker, you must have cataract of the nile in your eye. Let me blow it up in your face so you can see it, blind bat.
So this is a skully to you, clown?
Posted by sero (Member # 19290) on :
I still must say that it is interesting to see how non Arab or Christian Sudanese maintained a link to the past.
Notice the red hair.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: This stupidity has gone on long enough
quote:Originally posted by Confirming Truth: You find similar practice in modern time with the Negro. Called skin bleaching, the Negro lightens his/her skin with a topical cream to look more European white.
Ancient cultural practice of augmenting skin tone to appear more in line with the ruddy or tan Egyptian.
Modern cultural practice of chemically altering the skin tone to appear more attractive like white Europeans.
What a fool, and a idiot at that, does the moron NOT realize the peice he is using is a copy not the original...Lets compare the [/b]Original[/b] art work of the above from the Tomb of Rekhmire shall we..
(Reddis Brown Kushites and a Black(Faded) Kushite in the Middle)
It is so utterly stupid that you need not waste your time and you point out how dumb the Eurocentrics can be.
For the Eurocentrics, you guys really should stick to the female equation in arguing for a non-African Egypt. The light skinned females are still very difficult to explain away.
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
quote:The light skinned females are still very difficult to explain away.
Yeah, because skeletal analysis says that the female population was any different from the male phenotype, in terms of affinity to other Africans.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:The light skinned females are still very difficult to explain away.
Yeah, because skeletal analysis says that the female population was any different from the male phenotype, in terms of affinity to other Africans.
This thread is not referring to skeletal remains but depictions of skin color. Arguments made is that Nubians were depicted with the same color as Egyptians. This is true in many cases but primarily just the males. Were Nubian females depicted with the same color as Egyptian females? If I was Eurocentric this is the direction I would take the debate. Note: I am playing devils advocate here so I don't want any crazy accusations! And no I am not calling Europeans devils. I mean devils advocate as in just the vernacular.
Posted by -Just Call Me Jari- (Member # 14451) on :
Dude you are a f-king moron, While there were some "Light Skinned" females depicted in Egyptian art, there are plenty of Black and Dark Skinned Females with nappy ass hair, curly hair etc much more of the latter than the former.
You've been on E.S for how many years and you are still clueless about females depicted in the Tombs such as the Tomb of Nakht, Horemheb, Huy, Antefoquer, etc Various Statues...the list goes on
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
quote:Originally posted by osirion:
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:The light skinned females are still very difficult to explain away.
Yeah, because skeletal analysis says that the female population was any different from the male phenotype, in terms of affinity to other Africans.
This thread is not referring to skeletal remains but depictions of skin color. Arguments made is that Nubians were depicted with the same color as Egyptians. This is true in many cases but primarily just the males. Were Nubian females depicted with the same color as Egyptian females? If I was Eurocentric this is the direction I would take the debate. Note: I am playing devils advocate here so I don't want any crazy accusations! And no I am not calling Europeans devils. I mean devils advocate as in just the vernacular.
Stop lying Osirion, you wasn't playing devils advocate, or perhaps you was, and you was playing both the devil and the advocate.
We all know both you and lioness are fond of emphasizing the maternal eurasian contribution to Egypt. She does it by talking about how Eurasian slaves were supposedly massively imported by Egyptian kings, and you do it by talking about how asiatic females stayed when asiatic men were expelled, or by stressing the female asiatic genetic componant as THE deciding factor for the phenotype of the average Egyptian today. We all know you're obsessed with asiatic females going into Egypt.
Don't make me go dig up some of your earlier posts.
Posted by -Just Call Me Jari- (Member # 14451) on :
^^^ Yes, Osirion was trying to play devil's advocate. Hell he almost broke his neck proclaiming that King Tut was of Irish decent when the false rumor broke out on his Haplogroup.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
The Black Egyptian cult strikes again.
I knew these Afronuts couldn't help themselves.
However, this is true, are Nubian females depicted in the same color as many of the light skinned Egyptian women?
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: ^^^ Yes, Osirion was trying to play devil's advocate. Hell he almost broke his neck proclaiming that King Tut was of Irish decent when the false rumor broke out on his Haplogroup.
Celtic as in Celtica which at one time included much of NW Europe.
Ramses II not King Tut.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:Originally posted by osirion:
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:The light skinned females are still very difficult to explain away.
Yeah, because skeletal analysis says that the female population was any different from the male phenotype, in terms of affinity to other Africans.
This thread is not referring to skeletal remains but depictions of skin color. Arguments made is that Nubians were depicted with the same color as Egyptians. This is true in many cases but primarily just the males. Were Nubian females depicted with the same color as Egyptian females? If I was Eurocentric this is the direction I would take the debate. Note: I am playing devils advocate here so I don't want any crazy accusations! And no I am not calling Europeans devils. I mean devils advocate as in just the vernacular.
Stop lying Osirion, you wasn't playing devils advocate, or perhaps you was, and you was playing both the devil and the advocate.
We all know both you and lioness are fond of emphasizing the maternal eurasian contribution to Egypt. She does it by talking about how Eurasian slaves were supposedly massively imported by Egyptian kings, and you do it by talking about how asiatic females stayed when asiatic men were expelled, or by stressing the female asiatic genetic componant as THE deciding factor for the phenotype of the average Egyptian today. We all know you're obsessed with asiatic females going into Egypt.
Don't make me go dig up some of your earlier posts.
Nubian females please.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Stop lying Osirion, you wasn't playing devils advocate, or perhaps you was, and you was playing both the devil and the advocate.
We all know both you and lioness are fond of emphasizing the maternal eurasian contribution to Egypt. She does it by talking about how Eurasian slaves were supposedly massively imported by Egyptian kings, and you do it by talking about how asiatic females stayed when asiatic men were expelled, or by stressing the female asiatic genetic componant as THE deciding factor for the phenotype of the average Egyptian today. We all know you're obsessed with asiatic females going into Egypt.
Don't make me go dig up some of your earlier posts.
You have the notion that the rulers and upper class of Egypt were overwelmingly African, and in addition to Egyptian ancestry their roots extend below to the South, Sudan, perhaps Ethiopia.
BUT NOT GODDAMNED ASIA !!!!
African people didn't need help from Asians to make a civilization !!!!!!!!!
O.K. now, hold up, wait a minute.
You are behind zarahan's latest update and he was catching up to Clyde. "Asians" is no longer a dirty word.
How much influence was there from Nubia to Egypt? It's not certain how much but it's next door so it's also good candidate for influence. To the North there is another next door neighbor, the Near Eastern nations, Mesopotamia etc.
The Near east, the dreaded fake "Asian influence"
But you're behind the times, Asia is O.K. now, look:
quote:Originally posted by zarahan:
Mesopotamia: a tropical/arid tropics civilization
[QB] ^^ Great info above that you present. I will have to pull the lachish study and examine it in more detail. In the meantime I will revise the above to incorporate the findings of your excellent Cambridge ancient History reference. It seems then that based on the above, that on 4 counts, the ancient peoples of Mesopotamia can be linked with tropical African variants.
1) They all lived in an arid tropic/subtropical zone
2) The Natufians show clear sub-Saharan affinities
3) The Sumerians show clear resemblances with tropical variants on 4 counts:
a) Resemblance to Upper Egyptian specimens (Keith)
b) Clear dolichocephaly in most Sumerian specimens- often used as a 'negroid' marker in older analyses
c) Resemblance of Sumerian specimens to peoples of the Egyptian Western desert, ih whom modern scholars find sub-Saharan affinities
d) The U'baid people showing prognathism, wide nostrils and and other tropical features in your Cambridge History
CONCLUSION The HBD claim is false. Tropical peoples did indeed develop advanced civilizations without needing cold-climate "role models". Mesopotamia is in the Arid tropic (subtropical) zone and developed advanced civilizations long before reputed European or Asiatic cold-climate “leaders”. The peoples who developed these ancient civilizations did NOT look like cold-climate “Nordics" or Eastern Asiatics. Instead, they show a range of variation, including clear resemblance on some counts to other tropically adapted peoples of Africa. Scholars who deny these findings are inconsistent - like Coon above. Documented resemblances between Sumerians and other tropical peoples covers (a) Upper Egyptians, (b) dolichocephalism and (c) high desert Egyptians, both within the range of tropical African variants.
So it's no problem now. It seems that many dark skinned men of Egypt preferred lighter skinned women.
BUT IT'S O.K. THE LIGHT SKINNED WOMEN WERE TROPICAL LIGHT SKINNED WOMEN and besides many m Middle Eastern men are dark skinned anyway.
now relax and smoke a cigarette.
lioness productions 2011-13
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
quote:Originally posted by osirion: The Black Egyptian cult strikes again.
I knew these Afronuts couldn't help themselves.
However, this is true, are Nubian females depicted in the same color as many of the light skinned Egyptian women?
Ha Ha Ha. The cat comes out of the bag. So you really WAS doing more than playing advocate, wasn't you? I knew my clown radar wasn't off, lol.
Seriously though, I give a jack sh!t about how Nubian females were depicted. Look at the following graph for example:
The gray dots represent females, and the black triangles represent males. In 5/7 sexual dimorphism means, the females have a more ''African'' phenotype than the males, ie, their end of almost every ''stick'' is positioned lower than that of the males, on almost every ''stick'' represented on there (Old kingdom and Early predynastic being the exceptions). Even in the late period Gizeh this is the case. Now, if the yellow color is going to be seriously entertained as objective, rather than a subjective convention, why don't we see the female end of the ''sticks'' seriously out of balance, and pointing upwards in the direction of the Late period Gizeh, in a consistent manner? LOL.
BTW, do you know of a population that can consistently, produce yellow (light skinned) girls and reddish brown boys? Because I don't. I've never seen that, but maybe you can help us out, since you seem to be under the impression that artistic sex based color differences have relevancy outside of the art department.
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Stop lying Osirion, you wasn't playing devils advocate, or perhaps you was, and you was playing both the devil and the advocate.
We all know both you and lioness are fond of emphasizing the maternal eurasian contribution to Egypt. She does it by talking about how Eurasian slaves were supposedly massively imported by Egyptian kings, and you do it by talking about how asiatic females stayed when asiatic men were expelled, or by stressing the female asiatic genetic componant as THE deciding factor for the phenotype of the average Egyptian today. We all know you're obsessed with asiatic females going into Egypt.
Don't make me go dig up some of your earlier posts.
You have the notion that the rulers and upper class of Egypt were overwelmingly African, and in addition to Egyptian ancestry their roots extend below to the South, Sudan, perhaps Ethiopia.
BUT NOT GODDAMNED ASIA !!!!
African people didn't need help from Asians to make a civilization !!!!!!!!!
O.K. now, hold up, wait a minute.
You are behind zarahan's latest update and he was catching up to Clyde. "Asians" is no longer a dirty word.
How much influence was there from Nubia to Egypt? It's not certain how much but it's next door so it's also good candidate for influence. To the North there is another next door neighbor, the Near Eastern nations, Mesopotamia etc.
The Near east, the dreaded fake "Asian influence"
But you're behind the times, Asia is O.K. now, look:
quote:Originally posted by zarahan:
Mesopotamia: a tropical/arid tropics civilization
[QB] ^^ Great info above that you present. I will have to pull the lachish study and examine it in more detail. In the meantime I will revise the above to incorporate the findings of your excellent Cambridge ancient History reference. It seems then that based on the above, that on 4 counts, the ancient peoples of Mesopotamia can be linked with tropical African variants.
1) They all lived in an arid tropic/subtropical zone
2) The Natufians show clear sub-Saharan affinities
3) The Sumerians show clear resemblances with tropical variants on 4 counts:
a) Resemblance to Upper Egyptian specimens (Keith)
b) Clear dolichocephaly in most Sumerian specimens- often used as a 'negroid' marker in older analyses
c) Resemblance of Sumerian specimens to peoples of the Egyptian Western desert, ih whom modern scholars find sub-Saharan affinities
d) The U'baid people showing prognathism, wide nostrils and and other tropical features in your Cambridge History
CONCLUSION The HBD claim is false. Tropical peoples did indeed develop advanced civilizations without needing cold-climate "role models". Mesopotamia is in the Arid tropic (subtropical) zone and developed advanced civilizations long before reputed European or Asiatic cold-climate “leaders”. The peoples who developed these ancient civilizations did NOT look like cold-climate “Nordics" or Eastern Asiatics. Instead, they show a range of variation, including clear resemblance on some counts to other tropically adapted peoples of Africa. Scholars who deny these findings are inconsistent - like Coon above. Documented resemblances between Sumerians and other tropical peoples covers (a) Upper Egyptians, (b) dolichocephalism and (c) high desert Egyptians, both within the range of tropical African variants.
So it's no problem now. It seems that many dark skinned men of Egypt preferred lighter skinned women.
BUT IT'S O.K. THE LIGHT SKINNED WOMEN WERE TROPICAL LIGHT SKINNED WOMEN and besides many m Middle Eastern men are dark skinned anyway.
now relax and smoke a cigarette.
lioness productions 2011-13
Lioness, you dunce, I have no reason to believe that the maternal Eurasian componant is any larger among the Ancient Egyptians than the paternal Eurasian componant. You're the one that needs to relax and smoke a cigarette. Matter of fact, make that a cig and 5 xanax pills.
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: ^^^ Yes, Osirion was trying to play devil's advocate. Hell he almost broke his neck proclaiming that King Tut was of Irish decent when the false rumor broke out on his Haplogroup.
LOL.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
BTW, do you know of a population that can consistently, produce yellow (light skinned) girls and reddish brown boys? Because I don't. I've never seen that, but maybe you can help us out, since you seem to be under the impression that artistic sex based color differences have relevancy outside of the art department.
When the Egyptians painted Women Gods the often used a purer yellow and this was meant to represent gold. They did not have metalic gold paint as we do today.
But in portaits of royal or government class couples you sometimes see the women a beige color lighter than the men, sometimes slightly yellow sometimes mearly a light brown, not the purer yellow used for Godesses. Therefore it's not symbolic in portraiture of real people.
So why Is this?
It is not really known but I would speculate that some of the women came from different places than did the men.
wait a minute, don't get mad.
Look at the Khosians and some of the Igbos of Nigeria and elsewhere. They have lighter skin yet are African.
It's African diversity at it again. Asia has some diversity but nothing beats African diversity. African diversity is Number # 1.
Don't get me wrong, "diversity" in general isn't great. That's race mixing. We can't have that.
That's why we have to get these black Asians out of the picture. They're confusing the whole purity issue.
Black Asians are alright but let them fend for themselves. next thing you know people will be claiming white Africans.
We need to get back to the old days when you could tell who was who.
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
quote:But in portaits of royal or government class couples you sometimes see the women a beige color lighter than the men, sometimes slightly yellow sometimes mearly a light brown, not the purer yellow used for Godesses. Therefore it's not symbolic in portraiture of real people.
Dumb phuck, you're too slow to read the graph I posted?
And answer the question, dunce, don't quote my question, and then chicken out of giving a coherent answer:
BTW, do you know of a population that can consistently, produce yellow (light skinned) girls and reddish brown boys? Because I don't. I've never seen that, but maybe you can help us out, since you seem to be under the impression that artistic sex based color differences have relevancy outside of the art department. Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Lioness, you dunce,
Stop ripping off Ironedlion. "Dunce" is his trademark lingo.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
I have no reason to believe that the maternal Eurasian componant is any larger among the Ancient Egyptians than the paternal Eurasian componant. You're the one that needs to relax and smoke a cigarette. Matter of fact, make that a cig and 5 xanax pills.
^^^^ Look at this Eurocentric.
He's saying the Egyptians had a "Eurasian component"
take 2 vicodin and a blunt
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
^Yoú're on ignore until you're replying directly to anything that was said. This is a forum, not kindergarten.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:But in portaits of royal or government class couples you sometimes see the women a beige color lighter than the men, sometimes slightly yellow sometimes mearly a light brown, not the purer yellow used for Godesses. Therefore it's not symbolic in portraiture of real people.
Dumb phuck, you're too slow to read the graph I posted?
And answer the question, dunce, don't quote my question, and then chicken out of giving a coherent answer:
BTW, do you know of a population that can consistently, produce yellow (light skinned) girls and reddish brown boys? Because I don't. I've never seen that, but maybe you can help us out, since you seem to be under the impression that artistic sex based color differences have relevancy outside of the art department.
Look at this Euro ^^^^^,
still believes in racial craniometry
pretending I'm on ignore, LOL
^^^ get out the calipers
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
Seriously though, I give a jack sh!t about how Nubian females were depicted. Look at the following graph for example:
then you have no buisness on a thread with Nubians in the title !
I said Nubians, not a graph about Egyptians
lioness productions, all day
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:Originally posted by osirion: The Black Egyptian cult strikes again.
I knew these Afronuts couldn't help themselves.
However, this is true, are Nubian females depicted in the same color as many of the light skinned Egyptian women?
Ha Ha Ha. The cat comes out of the bag. So you really WAS doing more than playing advocate, wasn't you? I knew my clown radar wasn't off, lol.
Seriously though, I give a jack sh!t about how Nubian females were depicted. Look at the following graph for example:
The gray dots represent females, and the black triangles represent males. In 5/7 sexual dimorphism means, the females have a more ''African'' phenotype than the males, ie, their end of almost every ''stick'' is positioned lower than that of the males, on almost every ''stick'' represented on there (Old kingdom and Early predynastic being the exceptions). Even in the late period Gizeh this is the case. Now, if the yellow color is going to be seriously entertained as objective, rather than a subjective convention, why don't we see the female end of the ''sticks'' seriously out of balance, and pointing upwards in the direction of the Late period Gizeh, in a consistent manner? LOL.
BTW, do you know of a population that can consistently, produce yellow (light skinned) girls and reddish brown boys? Because I don't. I've never seen that, but maybe you can help us out, since you seem to be under the impression that artistic sex based color differences have relevancy outside of the art department.
I am Afrocentric but not an Afronut. I question what I think I know and am willing to accept new facts.
My last question actually does intrigue me. Are Nubian females depicted in the same color as Egyptian females? Nubian men are depicted in the same color as Egyptian men but not so much Nubian females.
But I know what you will do, you will reply with more questions and I will never get an answer.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by osirion: Nubian men are depicted in the same color as Egyptian men but not so much Nubian females.
But I know what you will do, you will reply with more questions and I will never get an answer.
What color are the men? Often jet black. Is that the standard color for Egyptians? Don't worry most Africans aren't jet black anyway. Some of them have the same color as some Near Easterners yet not necessarily having ancestry from them. On an even lighter spectrum you have Khosians.
First it's hard to distinguish all individuals that are female in some of these paintings of Nubians. We saw the Nuba woman earlier with the red paint and she had a similar hairstyle to the men.
Some depictions of Nubians you see are a reddish brown tone like the Egyptians. Others jet black.
You don't see groups of Egyptians, real people not gods, painted jet black. So it's simplisitic to say Nubian men are depicted in the same color as Egyptian men. Some are some aren't. And it's not one color so you can't say "the same color"
Of course you can take a dimly light photo of people with reddish brown skin, kick up the contrast to make the photo look better, the lights get lighter and the darks get darker, the brown turns to almost black. You can see evidence of this on the third photo below. The white background color is too bright and not yellowed. That's a result of using the contrast controls on the camera or in photoshop later. The lights get lighter the darks get darker. People always try to prove things by ambigous poor quality reproductions. The predominant color for Egyptians as we see from thousands of paintings is reddish brown to dark reddish brown. Some Nubians are portrayed this way others not. If they were all
Example these poor lighting quality photos:
[/QB][/QUOTE]
^^^The third photo looks differnt from the fist two. yet it's the same general section of the wall. The differemce is the color and contrast settings on the camera.
Of course you don't have to be jet black to be 100% African.
On the other hand zarahan says some of these Mesopotamians were tropical so it doens' t matter now anyway.
let's look at this other item again. A photo of better quality not on a weird angle either, and the contrast not F-d with:
This are supposedly all Nubians. Yet the two figures on the left don't have the same hair style or the hoop earrings. One of them is a light brown color, the second from the left.
Are these all Nubians? I don't know. If he's Nubian then your male/female thing isn't working.
Nobody is certain the origins of all of these people.
The answer: Nubians also painted many of their females yellow. Reminds me of the practice of some Taureg women who paint their faces yellow.
Perhaps women were painting themselves yellow! Ha Ha Ha
The Egyptian women were yellow because they put paint on their bodies. I am getting a laugh out of this ironic twist.
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
^ You keep making this about artistic color renderings of females, when it isn't about that, and you know it. This is about some lingering belief that you have about an exaggerated female Eurasian componant among the Ancient Egyptians, and your comments in this thread are simply an extension of that, as it is clearly a recurring theme in your posts.
You tried to connect light skinned females in artwork to an actual presence of light skinned females, and hence, why you were of the opinion that such light skinned depictions were still difficult to explain away.
Then, when I posted evidence to show that the ubiquitous light skinned female depictions are not based on objective reality, you blurted out non sense about a lack of examples of Nubians that were depicted with light skin.
Both you and Lioness refuse to look at the skeletal data, because that data will blow your unsubstantiated beliefs to smithereens. Ignoring the skeletal data is the only which in which the two of you can keep this self imposed illusion going. Look for example at the Lioness character, who insist that female Egyptians were beige skin colored, lol, despite the fact that I posted actual scientific data that shows that, if anything, they looked more ''African'' than the males in terms of facial features.
Posted by Truthcentric (Member # 3735) on :
^ I think osirion has a secret obsession with black male/white female intercourse.
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
quote:Originally posted by osirion: I am Afrocentric but not an Afronut. I question what I think I know and am willing to accept new facts.
My last question actually does intrigue me. Are Nubian females depicted in the same color as Egyptian females? Nubian men are depicted in the same color as Egyptian men but not so much Nubian females.
But I know what you will do, you will reply with more questions and I will never get an answer.
Of course your question intriques you, because you get to indulge in the illusion that there is more going on than factual evidence suggests.
^Leave it to Osirion, and he'll tell you to look at the flat faced yellow colored coffin, and to ignore the totally incongruent facial features of the skeleton inside.
What some people won't do to cling onto their outdated, silly beliefs.
Posted by Ish Gebor AKA Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by osirion: Nubian men are depicted in the same color as Egyptian men but not so much Nubian females.
But I know what you will do, you will reply with more questions and I will never get an answer.
What color are the men? Often jet black. Is that the standard color for Egyptians? Don't worry most Africans aren't jet black anyway. Some of them have the same color as some Near Easterners yet not necessarily having ancestry from them. On an even lighter spectrum you have Khosians.
First it's hard to distinguish all individuals that are female in some of these paintings of Nubians. We saw the Nuba woman earlier with the red paint and she had a similar hairstyle to the men.
Some depictions of Nubians you see are a reddish brown tone like the Egyptians. Others jet black.
You don't see groups of Egyptians, real people not gods, painted jet black. So it's simplisitic to say Nubian men are depicted in the same color as Egyptian men. Some are some aren't. And it's not one color so you can't say "the same color"
Of course you can take a dimly light photo of people with reddish brown skin, kick up the contrast to make the photo look better, the lights get lighter and the darks get darker, the brown turns to almost black. You can see evidence of this on the third photo below. The white background color is too bright and not yellowed. That's a result of using the contrast controls on the camera or in photoshop later. The lights get lighter the darks get darker. People always try to prove things by ambigous poor quality reproductions. The predominant color for Egyptians as we see from thousands of paintings is reddish brown to dark reddish brown. Some Nubians are portrayed this way others not. If they were all
Example these poor lighting quality photos:
^^^The third photo looks differnt from the fist two. yet it's the same general section of the wall. The differemce is the color and contrast settings on the camera.
Of course you don't have to be jet black to be 100% African.
On the other hand zarahan says some of these Mesopotamians were tropical so it doens' t matter now anyway.
let's look at this other item again. A photo of better quality not on a weird angle either, and the contrast not F-d with:
This are supposedly all Nubians. Yet the two figures on the left don't have the same hair style or the hoop earrings. One of them is a light brown color, the second from the left.
Are these all Nubians? I don't know. If he's Nubian then your male/female thing isn't working.
Nobody is certain the origins of all of these people.
. [/QB][/QUOTE]
Actually, both colors are depicted in the same way on the tomb walls.
More prove you haven't been there yourself.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:Originally posted by osirion: I am Afrocentric but not an Afronut. I question what I think I know and am willing to accept new facts.
My last question actually does intrigue me. Are Nubian females depicted in the same color as Egyptian females? Nubian men are depicted in the same color as Egyptian men but not so much Nubian females.
But I know what you will do, you will reply with more questions and I will never get an answer.
Of course your question intriques you, because you get to indulge in the illusion that there is more going on than factual evidence suggests.
^Leave it to Osirion, and he'll tell you to look at the flat faced yellow colored coffin, and to ignore the totally incongruent facial features of the skeleton inside.
What some people won't do to cling onto their outdated, silly beliefs.
With all of that you still have yet to produce a pale Nubian female.
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
^LOL
Only a low IQ retard such as yourself would think I've committed myself to a viewpoint that would now require the evidence of a pale Nubian female, for that viewpoint to be valid.
Why would I post a picture of a light skinned female, you incredible dufus?
From the arguments that were put forth by me, how would it make sense for me to search images that depict a light skinned Nubian female?
It wouldn't be any more random if you'd asked me to produce a picture of your butt.
You take talking garbage to a whole nother level.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
Seriously though, I give a jack sh!t about how Nubian females were depicted. Look at the following graph for example:
The gray dots represent females, and the black triangles represent males. In 5/7 sexual dimorphism means, the females have a more ''African'' phenotype than the males, ie, their end of almost every ''stick'' is positioned lower than that of the males, on almost every ''stick'' represented on there (Old kingdom and Early predynastic being the exceptions).
Look at this kalonji character has to put the word African in "quotes".
Then he promotes this "true negro" chart on "cranial bredth" and "facial flatness"
These are the types of concepts which suggest Horn Africans are "less African"
And what the hell does crainometry have to do with skin color?
Here's a Khosian woman with wide cranial bredth and "facial flatness"
But how can this be? Here's a darker Somali woman with less facial bredth and less facial flatness:
^^^there goes your theory that darker means "more African"
""""African """" (?)
kalonji, this is a dubious psuedo scientifc attempt to connect skin color to cranial and facial features.
You will have to take this as a loss as per lioness productions evaluation
debunk # 37, lioness productions, team 3
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
This is hilarious, the reason why she posted that image, I can only guess, but that image actually illustrates my earlier point. Despite their artistic skin color, the interred female componant of the AE population is noticably more ''African'' in the cited variables. The shorter face and broader nasal morphology of that lady kind of messes with your point, doesn't it?
quote:Then he promotes this "true negro" chart on "cranial bredth" and "facial flatness"
Cranial breath has proven to be an excellent discriminator of Africans or, more broadly speaking, tropically adapted populations, and higer lattitude populations. This has solid adaptive reasons, but your ass wouldn't know, because you just stepped out of 5th grade.
In Egyptians the same holds true for facial flatness, which obviously should be read here as ''prognathism'' (not a depressed nasal bridge) as other types of flatness wouldn't have seperated the Gizeh E-series and the other samples as much, dumbass, see Brace 93, figure 2 where E-series and pred. Naqadans cluster together using other types of facial flatness, among other things.
Again, your inability to put the graph in context in a way that makes sense indicates you just stepped out of 5th grade.
quote:^^^there goes your theory that darker means "more African"
Retarded 5th grader, where/when did I indicate that I'm a proponant of what you accuse me of?
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Retarded 5th grader, where/when did I indicate that I'm a proponant of what you accuse me of?
The thead topic is Nubians. You changed the subject to Egyptians and tried to show that the women are "more African" according to a True Negro Measuring Chart divised by massa.
You implied these measurements prove that lighter woman in Egyptian art must be some sort of artistic convention. It's bad science. This charts have nothing to do with skin color. During an intellectual beatdown I showed your scruffy ass that Khosians have more bredth and facial faltness than most horn Africans who are darker.
The situation is simple and plain. Just like what goes on today, darker brothers with a light skinned chick on their arm.
Yall men have been busted and it started with these 'gyptians. That's where the whole thing broke down. You try to cover it up because you want to claim gramps built a pyramid. Think with your mind not your obelisk
^^^^ "artistic color renderings of females"
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
quote:You changed the subject to Egyptians and tried to show that the women are "more African" according to a True Negro Measuring Chart divised by massa.
show me where I changed the subject, and tell me what that chart, or my interpretations thereof, have to do with the True Negro concept. Lets see if you understand what you're talking about, or if you're merely parroting what others say.
quote:You implied these measurements prove that lighter woman in Egyptian art must be some sort of artistic convention. It's bad science. This charts have nothing to do with skin color.
Of course it’s not bad science. Are you of the idiotic mindset that the massive amount of light skinned immigrants needed to make this spacey fantasy of yours work, would somehow disappear whenever researchers excavate burials, and analyze those remains? Where do you think those ubiquitous light skinned females went? Up in smoke? LOL.
quote:The situation is simple and plain. Just like what goes on today, darker brothers with a light skinned chick on their arm.
Dumbass, do you think that red bone African Americans like Beyonce and Kelis are not a good 1/3 halfway intermediate in Cranio-facial morphology between, say, early slavery era African Americans and whites?
Now hold that thought, if your low capacity memory allows it, and then answer the following question: if African Americans were importing Middle Eastern women at a higher rate than middle eastern men, would we expect to see a balance in the craniofacial morphology of interred adults, of both sexes, yes or no?
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
^And then there is another horrible setback for retards like Lioness:
The phenotype of light skinned females just isn't accompanied by a phenotype that is any different from the male population, which is opposite of what we would expect if it had anything to do with modern day aestethic values, and colorism.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
Are you of the idiotic mindset that the massive amount of light skinned immigrants needed to make this spacey fantasy of yours work
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
^I see you're running away from my posts again, lol.
^That would be the equivalent of red bones like Kelis and Beyonce, not this:
See, if Egyptian women were generally depicted like the 1st image, I could genuinly entertain the idea that the Ancient Egyptians did it for aesthethic reasons, as those women would actually exist in their population. But the 2nd and 3rd picture are a whole nother story. lets get real, you donkey, no population produces yellow skinned women and brown skinned men.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: ^LOL
Only a low IQ retard such as yourself would think I've committed myself to a viewpoint that would now require the evidence of a pale Nubian female, for that viewpoint to be valid.
Why would I post a picture of a light skinned female, you incredible dufus?
From the arguments that were put forth by me, how would it make sense for me to search images that depict a light skinned Nubian female?
It wouldn't be any more random if you'd asked me to produce a picture of your butt.
You take talking garbage to a whole nother level.
Weak reply. My IQ is a 124. Don't have to prove anything to the likes of you in that regard. Answer the question - light skinned Nubians? If the light skinned females are just a convention then does it hold true for Nubian women?
I have actually answered this.
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
^For someone who allegedly has a high IQ, you sure function the slowest in here, outside of Lioness and a few trolls.
There is nothing intelligent emanating from your posts, the general themes can be summed up as, African caucasians, Borana Egyptians that got deluded by admixture, and Celtic Ramses.
And there is also no need to answer your immensely idiotic question, as Nubians were not Egyptian citizens, and hence, it wouldn't be a revelation that certain things sacred to Egyptians, weren't shared with others, or that those others would even WANT to share those things deemed sacred by Egyptians.
I doesn't take someone older than three to realize that within-group cultural peculiatities, like self-view and self-characterization that are specific to a given country can't be assumed to be seen by those groups as something that would be ok to just extend to other groups, just because those outsider groups are related ethnically.
What I'm describing above is happening all over Africa today, along the lines of ethnic boundaries, what would make it different in Ancient times?
I seriously doubt you have an IQ higher than sixty-two, as this understanding comes quite naturally to healthy thinking people.
Posted by KING (Member # 9422) on :
We have all seen the pics of Nubians and some in Jet Black Coloring, some in Dark Brown like Egyptians and others in Reddish Brown.
We don't see ANY Nubian woman in pics so all we are doing is speculating. The Puntite Queen was shown in Brown skin like the men but that is all I remember seeing.
Now one thing that HAS to be undertsood is that in the Human family, you never see an stark contrast between Men and Women in color. No such thing as an Brown and Yellow race of people that mates and conitnues down that path. What we have is variation of color in places like Nigeria, Ethopia etc. I highly doubt that the Egyptians and Nubians were like modern Blacks who sometimes date and marry based on the color in there skin(Practise that needs to stop).
Nubians are not to be looked on as simply neighbours to Egyptians but people with there own civi and ideas. Nubians though in Merowe, showed themselves no different then Egyptians in there tomb scenes. It's like people forget that Lower Nubia was part of Egypt at the time.
All in All, stop being hung up on this tid bit of ideas. Nubians were like Egyptians. Some Jet Black, Some Brown, Some Reddish Brown, and Some Yellow Brown. They were still one Family and were all Brothers and Sisters of Mother Africa.
Peace
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
quote:We don't see ANY Nubian woman in pics so all we are doing is speculating. The Puntite Queen was shown in Brown skin like the men but that is all I remember seeing.
There were Puntite women depicted other than that queen, you can find those images in Hatshepsuts Deir-el-Bahari temple, where some of them are exiting their elevated houses, and they're jet black and brown, and with facial features like the Egyptians. We also know from other Egyptian depictions that Nubian women were depicted jet-black, like for example, the image were kemsit is getting here hair done. There are light skinned Nubian females here and there, but they're brown skinned, not yellow, although I can imagine that there are exceptions.
quote:Now one thing that HAS to be undertsood is that in the Human family, you never see an stark contrast between Men and Women in color. No such thing as an Brown and Yellow race of people that mates and conitnues down that path.
Exactly! It boggles my mind that this concept is difficult for people to grasp.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: ^I see you're running away from my posts again, lol.
See, if Egyptian women were generally depicted like the 1st image, I could genuinly entertain the idea that the Ancient Egyptians did it for aesthethic reasons, as those women would actually exist in their population. But the second picture is a whole nother story. lets get real, you donkey, no population produces yellow skinned women and brown skinned men.
Look you dope and a half.
^^^^ Here are some Kushites. Are they all Kushites? I don't know but they roll together. You have no faith in African diversity. In the above a dark reddish brown person, a light brown person, four jet black people, more jet black people at the end but the one closer is dark reddish brown. Now if we go to Egpt there is even more diversity. They are not the same people producing brown skinned men and light skinned women you dingbat amoung dingbats. Obviously the men are from different tribal backgounds and regions from their wives. It could be all African because there is a range of skin tones in Africa. But it could also include Near Eastern people and Libyans. There's a range of skin tones in either place surrounding Egypt in different directions. And the royal and government classes are not necessarily representative of the common people.
And a wide range of facial features:
Amenemhet III
Amenemhet II
_____________________^^^^^^ so the man's skin tone is realistic while the woman's skin tone is "artistic" ? come on son
What's artistic about it?
maybe she was Igbo
maybe she was part Libyan or Canaanite could be a lot of things.
I wouldn't call Egypt "pan African" but it was diverse to the extent of interacting with neighboring regions in all directions.
It's the same thing with Jay Z and Beyonce why I am I wasting time with you.? That proved my point right there. I already did you
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
quote:so the man's sksin tone is realistic while the woman's skin tone is "artistic" ? come on son
Loiness, what is the color of the daugther in that image? How did she aquire it, from her mom? LOL. And their son, how did he inherit his color, from his father?
What about these kids, did they pick which parent they inherited their skin colors from:
You have to be the dumbest idiot to ever log in on Egyptsearch.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
quote:so the man's sksin tone is realistic while the woman's skin tone is "artistic" ? come on son
Loiness, what is the color of the daugther in that image? How did she aquire it, from her mom? LOL.
the figure at far left above is completely unpainted, unfinished, no color for clothing, jewelry or the base. The other figures are painted
If you are trying to point out examples in Egyptian art where there is a darker skinned male with a lighter skinned female in thes same scene you need to post examples. These should not include Gods and Godesses or Kings and Queens personifying dieties.
^^^^ Here the artists uses the fact that people in the region had varying skin tones to distinguish overlapping figures from one another. There are wide ranging facial features in Egyptian art. Likewise range of skintones This should inform you that it was a cosmopolitan place and that Phaoahs and Queens analagous to the difference between Jay Z and Beyonce's skin tone would not be unusual.
How can you not acknowledge this, it seems very reasonable
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
Dumbass, prove it was unfinished. There are too many entirely white female statues for them all to be unfinished.
Whether they were originally white, or that they were painted with a light color which was more susceptible to decay, I don't know. But it is obvious that in such sculptures, siblings generally have the color of the parent that is the same sex as them.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
^^^^ The above you posted is obviously unfinished. The artists had not gotten to paint the skin tone of the woman at all.
You can't really get around the fact that it's Unfinished due to the fact that the the figure's eyes have no pupils.
Eyes that are all white with no pupil is certainly not a convention in Egyptian portraiture.
Here is what the above may have looked like had the artist finished painting the figure, or at least nearly finished it, painting in the skin tone of the woman. Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
You need to prove it, lol. Do you think people care about your opinion? Cite scholarly support that those statues were unfinished.
^And explain why they always decide to abandon the project when its time to paint the mother and daughter, lol!!
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: You need to prove it, lol. Do you think people care about your opinion? Cite scholarly support that those statues were unfinished.
^And explain why they always decide to abandon the project when its time to paint the mother and daughter, lol!!
It's too stupid for me to waste time researching figures with no eyeballs in order to prove that those figures were unfinished. What could be more obvious? You're just embarassed about the exposure.
There is no need for this. Below is a sculpture in which the female figure's skin tone is painted. The blouse is white unlike her skin tone and you can see the outline of the v - neck.
Instead of BSing about unfinished works deal with the above This is a portrait where they actually did paint in the eyeballs.
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
Get to work beotch!
Explain why they always abondoned the project when it was time to paint the wifes!!
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: Get to work queen! Explain why they always abondoned the project when it was time to paint the wifes!!http://s3.hubimg.com/u/1282430_f120.jpg
Swenet you have gotten lost in this thing. I already explained why they had lighter skin even if all the above items are fully finished and in excellent condition.
Whether one is light because it's unfinished or another is light becasue it IS finished and intended I win either way. We agree that sometimes women were portrayed lighter. Finished or unfinished is a separate discussion because this point is agreed upon. You say the women are painted lighter and I also say the very same thing. Particulars about paint are completely irrelevant.
This is what happens when someone gets caught up in trying to prove me wrong so bad that they fall into another of my traps. The fly paper worked.
The question IS:
WHY ARE THE WOMEN PAINTED LIGHTER:
You say they were being "artistic" The whole thing is artistic. It's a piece of art. Saying that they did it because they were being artistic is like saying they did it becasue it's art. That's so vague it's a useless explanation.
I gave you the explanation son:
You had no comeback for that and you still don't.
In fact I may have the Afrocentrics on my side on this because I'm arguing diversity.
Look at Nasty and Kelis, different skin tones, yet are equally true negoid in features according to your racial crainiometry chart.
Maybe you haven't realized this yet, you are on CT's side of the argument. You both deny that this represents real skin tones. The answer is sexual selection and diversity of the region
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
^As was explained before, Kelis and Beyonce are not yellow, they are light brown so you fail with those examples.
Trick, if the colors were meant to be realistic, explain why in statues of this style, the children were all painted in the color of the parents that were of the same sex as them:
1.Why are lighter skins not accompanied with narrower features, if it was about aestatic values and colorism? 2.Why do boys and girls have different colors, if those colors are meant to be objective? 3.Why are there AE female personalities with both light skin and dark skin in different artworks? 4.Why do we see a change from standardized light skin of females in the OK, to a much higher proportion of brown skinned females in the NK if those colors are meant to be objective? 5.Why are those male/female differences not reflected in the skeletal record? 6.Why do we have specific cases of yellow painted females, but who show African phenotypes when their mummies are examined?
Dream on beotch! Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Swenet:
^And then there is another horrible setback for retards like Lioness:
The phenotype of light skinned females just isn't accompanied by a phenotype that is any different from the male population, which is opposite of what we would expect if it had anything to do with modern day aestethic values, and colorism.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: ^I see you're running away from my posts again, lol.
^That would be the equivalent of red bones like Kelis and Beyonce, not this:
See, if Egyptian women were generally depicted like the 1st image, I could genuinly entertain the idea that the Ancient Egyptians did it for aesthethic reasons, as those women would actually exist in their population. But the 2nd and 3rd picture are a whole nother story. lets get real, you donkey, no population produces yellow skinned women and brown skinned men.
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
^The last three women would be much closer to the standardized skin color of Egyptian females, but loiness won't admit that, because then she would run into trouble explaining where women THAT light would come from. Red bones like Kelis and Beyonce are more common, and less distinct, phenotypically, so she figures they are a safer bet. But like I said, the standardized color for females is not light brown, its yellow.
Posted by Troll Patrol (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: ^The last three women would be much closer to the standardized skin color of Egyptian females, but loiness won't admit that, because then she would run into trouble explaining where women THAT light would come from. Red bones like Kelis and Beyonce are more common, and less distinct, phenotypically, so she figures they are a safer bet. But like I said, the standardized color for females is not light brown, its yellow.
Yes, these are indigenous Northern Sudanese females. The three light ones and the dark one. They all do resemble in facial features.
And critically seen the light ones look "more" African. The dark one looks almost Indian, dogla. Although she's not.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: ^The last three women would be much closer to the standardized skin color of Egyptian females, but loiness won't admit that, because then she would run into trouble explaining where women THAT light would come from. Red bones like Kelis and Beyonce are more common, and less distinct, phenotypically, so she figures they are a safer bet. But like I said, the standardized color for females is not light brown, its yellow.
There is no "standardized color"
do you have eyes?
look your own links:
COLOR OF WOMAN : WHITE, slightly grayed NOT A BIT OF YELLOW,
PAINT CONDITION; HEAVILY FADED
_______________________________________________
COLOR OF WOMAN : NOT A BIT OF YELLOW EYEBALLS; NOT PAINTED FIGURE AT FAR LEFT NOT PAINTED -see hair, jewelry, clothing, base, all not painted
___________________________________________
LIGHT BEIGE, SAND COLOR:
____________________________________________
COLOR OF WOMAN : WHITE ,SLIGHTLY GRAYED NOT yellowed VERY FAINT TRACES OF VERY LIGHT BROWN IN FACE
PAINT CONDITION; HEAVILY FADED
________________________________________________
COLOR OF WOMAN : WHITE ,SLIGHTLY GRAYED NOT yellowed
__________________________________
COLOR OF WOMAN : DULL YELLOW
________________________________________________
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Nefertari and Isis
COLOR OF NEFERTARI: ( ACTUAL PERSON) : REDDISH BROWN
COLOR OF GODDESS ISIS; YELLOWISH ORANGE
THE COLOR YELLOW
THE COLOR BEIGE aka TAN aka SAND
THE COLOR YELLOWISH ORANGE
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol:
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: ^The last three women would be much closer to the standardized skin color of Egyptian females, but loiness won't admit that, because then she would run into trouble explaining where women THAT light would come from. Red bones like Kelis and Beyonce are more common, and less distinct, phenotypically, so she figures they are a safer bet. But like I said, the standardized color for females is not light brown, its yellow.
Yes, these are indigenous Northern Sudanese females. The three light ones and the dark one. They all do resemble in facial features.
And critically seen the light ones look "more" African. The dark one looks almost Indian, dogla. Although she's not.
In other words kalonji, your ass is wrong
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
quote:There is no "standardized color"
Of course there is a standardized color, that is why in almost all those OK statues, men have the same reddish brown color, which may change (read: turn out alot darker) depending on the art form in which the person is depicted.
In the same Old Kingdom style, females either were painted yellow or, and this is MY interpretation, mostly left untouched, with their skin being the same color as their dress. Contrary to what Loiness was saying, this of course, doesn't mean such statues were unfinished.
All that other stuff you wrote about statues being grayed, beige or white, lol, that shows how clueless you are, as that’s just the color of limestone.
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: ^As was explained before, Kelis and Beyonce are not yellow, they are light brown so you fail with those examples.
Trick, if the colors were meant to be realistic, explain why in statues of this style, the children were all painted in the color of the parents that were of the same sex as them:
1.Why are lighter skins not accompanied with narrower features, if it was about aestatic values and colorism? 2.Why do boys and girls have different colors, if those colors are meant to be objective? 3.Why are there AE female personalities with both light skin and dark skin in different artworks? 4.Why do we see a change from standardized light skin of females in the OK, to a much higher proportion of brown skinned females in the NK if those colors are meant to be objective? 5.Why are those male/female differences not reflected in the skeletal record? 6.Why do we have specific cases of yellow painted females, but who show African phenotypes when their mummies are examined?
Dream on beotch!
Loinless stop running and dodging, get to work!
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Swenet I have a question for you.
Please give a direct answer to this question. Your position is that men in Egyptian art who are painted in Egyptian art as a medium dark color were a medium dark color. This would not be unusal for Africans because most Africans are not jet black.
You say that the women were exatly the same medium dark but the Egyptians prefered to paint them quite a bit lighter for some artitsic or perhaps symbolic reason.
O.K. fine I'll give you a maybe on this becasue I think no one really knows tha answer to this issue.
So look at this:
above, top two Nuba women, note the clothing and hair style it looks very similar to what Nubian men were styling in the below Egyptian painting of Nubians
So it is possible that the above painting is showing a combination of both men and women.
Or they might all be men.
But let's fit it into what you have been saying in this thread about Egyptian artistc conventions. You are saying that there was no gender based intermingling of different tribes with different skin tones, dark men with lighter women, they were all dark. They just painted woman lighter but they weren't really lighter.
O.k. so in the above Egyptian painting of Nubians the lighter indivduals must be an artistic convention.
This means that either:
1) the lighter figures in the above painting of Nubians were female and were painted not as dark as the men because that was an Egyptian artistic convention.
2) the lighter figures in the above painting of Nubians were female and were painted not as dark as the men because as with modern Nuba women the women painted themselves with red ochre pigments
For your theory to be consistent one of these has to be true
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
quote:Your position is that men in Egyptian art who are painted in Egyptian art as a medium dark color were a medium dark color.
Thats not at all what I'm saying. What color a given person was given varies, there are many examples of this. Some variations are because the artist used standardized colors, some variations seem to have no particular reason, like for example:
quote:You say that the women were exatly the same medium dark but the Egyptians prefered to paint them quite a bit lighter for some artitsic or perhaps symbolic reason.
Yep.
quote:above, top two Nuba women, note the clothing and hair style it looks very similar to what Nubian men were styling in the below Egyptian painting of Nubians
The three top women are naked, and have braids. What similarities in clothing/hairstyles are you talking about?
quote:So it is possible that the above painting is showing a combination of both men and women.
The figures in that painting were obviously all men, with the exception of the two figures guarding the children in the bottom register. Their clothing is different from that of the rest, they have breasts, and their hair is somewhat longer, and their faces are feminine.
quote:This means that either:
1) the lighter figures in the above painting of Nubians were female and were painted not as dark as the men because that was an Egyptian artistic convention.
2) the lighter figures in the above painting of Nubians were female and were painted not as dark as the men because as with modern Nuba women the women painted themselves with red ochre pigments
For your theory to be consistent one of these has to be true
This makes absolutely no sense. You're starting out with a false assumption, and your reasoning stinks. Why do you assume for example, that the Egyptians were applying symbolic colors to people other than themselves? Tne notion of the existence of a symbolic convention to paint women is based on a pattern which can be seen on thousands and thousands of Egyptian works. What examples can you provide that that pattern extended to outsiders? Ponder that before you ask me stupid questions about whether or not symbolic colors were applied to Nubians.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: ^For someone who allegedly has a high IQ, you sure function the slowest in here, outside of Lioness and a few trolls.
There is nothing intelligent emanating from your posts, the general themes can be summed up as, African caucasians, Borana Egyptians that got deluded by admixture, and Celtic Ramses.
And there is also no need to answer your immensely idiotic question, as Nubians were not Egyptian citizens, and hence, it wouldn't be a revelation that certain things sacred to Egyptians, weren't shared with others, or that those others would even WANT to share those things deemed sacred by Egyptians.
I doesn't take someone older than three to realize that within-group cultural peculiatities, like self-view and self-characterization that are specific to a given country can't be assumed to be seen by those groups as something that would be ok to just extend to other groups, just because those outsider groups are related ethnically.
What I'm describing above is happening all over Africa today, along the lines of ethnic boundaries, what would make it different in Ancient times?
I seriously doubt you have an IQ higher than sixty-two, as this understanding comes quite naturally to healthy thinking people.
My IQ is obviously higher then yours because I have already answered my own question. Now go run along unless you have some actual insight besides gibberish.
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
^So you meassure your own intelligence by patting yourself on the back for solving a supposed mystery that you knew the answer to, all along?
Yeah, that really is a meassure of intelligence. They should put that right in there with all the other cognitive tasks that meassure iQ.
Posted by osirion (Member # 7644) on :
^ I wasn't clear on the answer. I was playing devils advocate remember and trying to come up with an argument for the reverse of my position.
You guys just jump on people for even questioning the tenets of Afrocentrism as if it is Bible.
Fact is to this day modern Egyptians still practice a form of sexual selection that essentially is Leucoderm preference for females.
But it isn't just them. East Indians also do this. Then there are the Arabs. Lastly, modern day Mexicans do this as well.
Preference for Leucoderm females is likely innate. Light skinned females are seen as more feminine than dark. Most artwork depictions of fair skinned females are of the upper class and those men would likely have the resource to afford to be very selective. Even in America, a significant number of affluent Black men have lighter skinned wife.
I find it interesting that in our society we have a term for light skinned African Americans - high yellow.
2000 years from now they will dig this picture up and wonder what to make of it:
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
Swenet, in the above what is the explantion for two different colors of the figures?
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
Lioness, what is your explanation for the different colors of the figures below?
Its called normal variation. Lioness, try using common sense, even if its just for a day. I promise you, you won't be disappointed.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
.
Swenet, what is your explanation for the different colors of the figures below?
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: It's called normal variation.
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
1. Can't see the image 2. Already answered that one 3. Variation 4. Obviously the standardized female color 5. Some other ritual symbolic meaning. Its a recurrent theme: all figures look exactly the same, but the recipients of some sort of ritual have a lighter skin color than the ones performing the ritual 6. Don't recognize the image, probably late dynastic, IMO reflective of demographic changes also seen in the skeletal records, ie they started to look like coastal North Africans, though I'm sure pre-existing phenotypes were still abundant. 7. Know the image. Same opinion about this one as the one in 6 8. Egyptian female in non-standardized color. 9. Egyptian female in standardized color, though obviously not exactly yellow.
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
quote:Originally posted by osirion: ^ I wasn't clear on the answer. I was playing devils advocate remember and trying to come up with an argument for the reverse of my position.
You guys just jump on people for even questioning the tenets of Afrocentrism as if it is Bible.
Fact is to this day modern Egyptians still practice a form of sexual selection that essentially is Leucoderm preference for females.
But it isn't just them. East Indians also do this. Then there are the Arabs. Lastly, modern day Mexicans do this as well.
Preference for Leucoderm females is likely innate. Light skinned females are seen as more feminine than dark. Most artwork depictions of fair skinned females are of the upper class and those men would likely have the resource to afford to be very selective. Even in America, a significant number of affluent Black men have lighter skinned wife.
I find it interesting that in our society we have a term for light skinned African Americans - high yellow.
2000 years from now they will dig this picture up and wonder what to make of it:
When you get back to planet earth you can tell me what all of this has to do with your initial statement, ie, that the symbolic use of yellow skin can be used as leverage point for Eurocentrics.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: 1. Can't see the image 2. Already answered that one 3. Variation 4. Obviously the standardized female color 5. Some other ritual symbolic meaning. Its a recurrent theme: all figures look exactly the same, but the recipients of some sort of ritual have a lighter skin color than the ones performing the ritual 6. Don't recognize the image, probably late dynastic, IMO reflective of demographic changes also seen in the skeletal records, ie they started to look like coastal North Africans, though I'm sure pre-existing phenotypes were still abundant. 7. Know the image. Same opinion about this one as the one in 6 8. Egyptian female in non-standardized color. 9. Egyptian female in standardized color, though obviously not exactly yellow.
Your answer is ridiculous. If there was a standardized color then then all women in the art would all have the same color and they don't.
Igbo couple
^^^^ If somebody was to start making paintings of people based on the colors above, the standard would be men dark brown, women light brown ("high yellow" according to some) Both dark and light would be standards and being standardized in this case reflects a real situtation. The word "standardized" does not tell you if the subject is realistic or not realistic.
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
quote:Your answer is ridiculous. If there was a standardized color then then all women in the art would all have the same color and they don't.
^Please provide me with a definition of standardized that implies that freedom to deviate from that standard is out of the question
quote:Igbo couple
What are you saying retard, that there is a pattern among Nigerian women that says that women are consistently lighter skinned than males? Because that would be REALLY be hilarious. Probably one of your most idiotic assertions to date. And another thing, I don't see how a lighter shade of brown all of a sudden equates to being painted in an entirely different color (ie, yellow). I'm not sure if you realize, but analogies are supposed to duplicate a property in some way shape or form.
quote:Both dark and light would be standards and being standardized in this case reflects a real situtation. The word "standardized" does not tell you if the subject is realistic or not realistic.
If you believe that then your dumbass doesn't know what standardized means.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
wake up stupid
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: Some new stuff:
Egyptian woman painting her body yellow
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
^Dumbass, why not post an average African American rap video and conclude that African American women are mostly latino and light skinned. It wouldn't be any different from what your backward ass is doing right now.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: [QB] ^Dumbass, why not post an average African American rap video and conclude that African American women are mostly latino and light skinned. It wouldn't be any different from what your backward ass is doing right now.
stop the straw man BS. Did I say anything about "are mostly". The subject is government and royal classes in ancient Egypt, what they did
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
^^^ stop playing games. Either you have a clear statement to make about the above paintings or you don't and it's just an arbitrary posting.
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
^I don't have a statement to make retard, I don't know if you noticed, but that post just ripped your ''yellow skin color = Ancient Egyptian redbone'' belief to shreds. The question is, what are you going to do about it, not what I make of it, lol.
Thats a new one: when it gets hot under your feet, shy away from your earlier assertions and press others to explain what your own idiotic interpretations can't.
Troll tactic #49039210
quote:Originally posted by Lioness: The situation is simple and plain. Just like what goes on today, darker brothers with a light skinned chick on their arm.
quote:Originally posted by Lioness: so the man's skin tone is realistic while the woman's skin tone is "artistic" ? come on son
quote:Originally posted by Lioness: Yall men have been busted and it started with these 'gyptians. That's where the whole thing broke down.
quote:Originally posted by Lioness: But in portaits of royal or government class couples you sometimes see the women a beige color lighter than the men, sometimes slightly yellow sometimes mearly a light brown, not the purer yellow used for Godesses. Therefore it's not symbolic in portraiture of real people.
Posted by the lioness (Member # 17353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: ^I don't have a statement to make retard, I don't know if you noticed, but that post just ripped your ''yellow skin color = Ancient Egyptian redbone'' belief to shreds. The question is, what are you going to do about it, not what I make of it, lol.
Thats a new one: when it gets hot under your feet, shy away from your earlier assertions and press others to explain what your own idiotic interpretations can't.
you don't have a statement to make yet after you say that you make a statement:
"that post just ripped your ''yellow skin color = Ancient Egyptian redbone'' belief to shreds."
that makes you the retard. The statement is BS because I never used the term "red bone" .
You are using your own terms and saying that I said this or that about them.
You are really looking pathetic now. fist you make up a false quote attributed to me with a term I did not use. You use this term "redbone" as if it's valid. You claim that these pictures "rippped" something to shreds but you don't explain how. If that's the case than "high yellow" must be equally as valid. But I prefer to use neither of these dumb colorism terms. I have busted and broken your ass in this thread too many times to count.
quote:Originally posted by Swenet: I don't have a statement
obviously, you ran out
yours truly,
lioness productions, stomp out team
Posted by Swenet (Member # 17303) on :
Trolls and retards always bicker about semantics instead of adressing the evidence on the table.
For example, I never said she used the word ''red bone'', just used that word to describe her argument.
Some people (those who are not retards) object to the usage of different words to describe their argument, because alternative words may have slightly different connotations, but the retard Loinless objects to my use of ''redbone'' just to be able to have some ammunition to make her reply look like she actually has something to say, when she doesn't.
Clearly every example she put forward, ie Kelis and Beyonce, can be called ''redbone'', but like I said, some people want to play games because after being spanked throughout the thread, thats the only conversation material they're able to throw in.
Keep reaffirming what a useless retard troll you are!
Posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova (Member # 15718) on :
Swenet: Ignoring the skeletal data is the only which in which the two of you can keep this self imposed illusion going.
Indeed. And all their denials and delusions though, cannot change the facts.
compare the shape of King Tut's blue Wig to the Blonde and Red wigs of the Kushites...
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