quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
Black people have not experienced Black Nationalism, only Multiculturalism, so that answer is unknown.

Even in Africa multiple cultures have intermingled.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
Black people have not experienced Black Nationalism, only Multiculturalism, so that answer is unknown.

Even in Africa multiple cultures have intermingled.

---

There are numerous black nations in Africa

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
^ This is the problem. Instead of supporting existing black nations the focus is solely on victimization by white people, it's defeatism

---

I knew that you wouldn't actually get to the end of the video. Dr. Wilson gives the answer to the problem in which you have pretended to ask at the top of this thread. The fact that you did not get to the end tells me WHO you are. You have revealed yourself.


 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
I already know about Blueprint for Black Power
 

---

Posted by Andromeda2025 (Member # 22772) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
I already know about Blueprint for Black Power

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Andromeda2025:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
I already know about Blueprint for Black Power

---

Alright, great! Explain to me what Dr. Wilson proposes. Thanks.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
supporting existing black nations

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lamin:
[QB] Black nationalism is preferable but in the context of the U.S. it should be the emulation of fostering social capital the way groups like Jews, Indians(India) and Mexicans do it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Andromeda2025:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
I already know about Blueprint for Black Power

---

Alright, great! Explain to me what Dr. Wilson proposes. Thanks.

---

This:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
supporting existing black nations

---

---

That is not what Dr. Wilson proposed. Quit using we. the devil is a liar....



you see this meme? This guy is NOT black.. he is an Asian dude wearing black make up...
 

---

Posted by lamin (Member # 5777) on :
 

quote:

---

we don't need social capital

we need capital,

the green stuff

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
Black people have not experienced Black Nationalism, only Multiculturalism, so that answer is unknown.

Even in Africa multiple cultures have intermingled.

---

There are numerous black nations in Africa

---

Such as?


Black Nationalism doesn't correlate with Black Nations.
 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by lamin:
[QB] Black nationalism is preferable but in the context of the U.S. it should be the emulation of fostering social capital the way groups like Jews, Indians(India) and Mexicans do it.

---

we don't need social capital

we need capital,

the green stuff

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
What's better Black Nationalism or Multiculturalism?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:


Black Nationalism doesn't correlate with Black Nations. [/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Andromeda2025:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Andromeda2025:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb] I already know about Blueprint for Black Power

---

Alright, great! Explain to me what Dr. Wilson proposes. Thanks.

---

This:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
supporting existing black nations

---

---

That is not what Dr. Wilson proposed.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:


Black Nationalism doesn't correlate with Black Nations.

---

Of course it does [/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Andromeda2025:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Andromeda2025:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb] I already know about Blueprint for Black Power

---

Alright, great! Explain to me what Dr. Wilson proposes. Thanks.

---

This:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
supporting existing black nations

---

---

That is not what Dr. Wilson proposed.

---

The Afrikan American community, especially, should vastly overhaul and reconstruct its educational orientation toward a knowledge of the Motherland. It must realize that its own economic salvation is coterminous with or tied to that of Afrika's. It must invest money and human resources in Afrika's development and perceive its economic prosperity as its special responsibility and mission

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
What's better Black Nationalism or Multiculturalism?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:

Black Nationalism doesn't correlate with Black Nations....

all "Black nations" are multicultural and accept multiculturalism over nationalism.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
Black nationalism only really means owning and controlling the means of production, the ability to build and maintain institutions for social development and progress and the ability to defend all the above.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Andromeda2025:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Andromeda2025:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb] I already know about Blueprint for Black Power

---

Alright, great! Explain to me what Dr. Wilson proposes. Thanks.

---

This:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
supporting existing black nations

---

---

That is not what Dr. Wilson proposed.

---

The Afrikan American community, especially, should vastly overhaul and reconstruct its educational orientation toward a knowledge of the Motherland. It must realize that its own economic salvation is coterminous with or tied to that of Afrika's. It must invest money and human resources in Afrika's development and perceive its economic prosperity as its special responsibility and mission

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Andromeda2025:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Andromeda2025:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb] I already know about Blueprint for Black Power

---

Alright, great! Explain to me what Dr. Wilson proposes. Thanks.

---

This:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
supporting existing black nations

---

---

That is not what Dr. Wilson proposed.

---

The Afrikan American community, especially, should vastly overhaul and reconstruct its educational orientation toward a knowledge of the Motherland. It must realize that its own economic salvation is coterminous with or tied to that of Afrika's. It must invest money and human resources in Afrika's development and perceive its economic prosperity as its special responsibility and mission

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by sudaniya:
There are dozens of black 'Nations' in Africa and yet there is not one that is worthy of the name. Some will point to the predatory economic and financial policies of Western powers towards African States... and that's certainly a factor, but it pales in comparison to the role played by Africa's death-deserbing mis-leaders; these self-serving, corrupt, myopic, tribalistic and obscenely incompetent 'leaders' bear the bulk of the responsibility for Africa's wretched state of affairs.

No one can ride you, unless your back is bent.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
why is that nonsense or are we supposed to read your mind?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Andromeda2025:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Andromeda2025:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Andromeda2025:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb] I already know about Blueprint for Black Power

---

Alright, great! Explain to me what Dr. Wilson proposes. Thanks.

---

This:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
supporting existing black nations

---

---

That is not what Dr. Wilson proposed.

---

The Afrikan American community, especially, should vastly overhaul and reconstruct its educational orientation toward a knowledge of the Motherland. It must realize that its own economic salvation is coterminous with or tied to that of Afrika's. It must invest money and human resources in Afrika's development and perceive its economic prosperity as its special responsibility and mission

---

That is Not what he proposed on the video link in this discussion

Africa spelled with a K? 3 times = kkk ... your subconscious is leaking.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Andromeda2025:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Andromeda2025:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Andromeda2025:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
[qb] I already know about Blueprint for Black Power

---

Alright, great! Explain to me what Dr. Wilson proposes. Thanks.

---

This:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
supporting existing black nations

---

---

That is not what Dr. Wilson proposed.

---

The Afrikan American community, especially, should vastly overhaul and reconstruct its educational orientation toward a knowledge of the Motherland. It must realize that its own economic salvation is coterminous with or tied to that of Afrika's. It must invest money and human resources in Afrika's development and perceive its economic prosperity as its special responsibility and mission

---

That is Not what he proposed on the video link in this discussion

Africa spelled with a K? 3 times = kkk ... your subconscious is leaking.

---

quote:

---

The Afrikan American community, especially, should vastly overhaul and reconstruct its educational orientation toward a knowledge of the Motherland. It must realize that its own economic salvation is coterminous with or tied to that of Afrika's. It must invest money and human resources in Afrika's development and perceive its economic prosperity as its special responsibility and mission

-Amos Wilson, Blueprint for Black Power

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:

Black Nationalism doesn't correlate with Black Nations....

all "Black nations" are multicultural and accept multiculturalism over nationalism.

---

.

.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
Black nationalism only really means owning and controlling the means of production, the ability to build and maintain institutions for social development and progress and the ability to defend all the above.

---

,

---

quote:

---

nationalism (n.) Look up nationalism at Dictionary.com
1844, "devotion to one's country;" see nationalist + -ism; in some usages from French nationalisme. Earlier it was used in a theological sense of "the doctrine of divine election of nations" (1836). Later it was used in a sense of "doctrine advocating nationalization of a country's industry" (1892).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
people post who you normally disagree with on everything.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
people post who you normally disagree with on everything.

---

I don't disagree with certain people on everything, occasionally I agree on something

you have a problem now

---

You simply lack the intelligence to formulate your position.

It is you who has a problem now. Since I posted the etymology. But somehow I have a problem because your eurocentrick ideology hides behind with what Doug posted.


See, you are like an open book, I can read you with eas. And the time has come to kick it up a notch or two.

quote:

---

Definition of black nationalist

: a member of a group of militant blacks who advocate separatism from the whites and the formation of self-governing black communities

---

quote:

---

Definition of white nationalist

: one of a group of militant whites who espouse white supremacy and advocate enforced racial segregation
… his vision for the community—an enclave where residents fly


“racialist” banners, where they are able to import enough … white nationalists to take control of the town government … — John Eligon, New York Times, 30 Aug. 2013

---

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/white%20nationalist


 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
^ If you want to go by white definitions
 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by sudaniya:
There are dozens of black 'Nations' in Africa and yet there is not one that is worthy of the name. Some will point to the predatory economic and financial policies of Western powers towards African States... and that's certainly a factor, but it pales in comparison to the role played by Africa's death-deserbing mis-leaders; these self-serving, corrupt, myopic, tribalistic and obscenely incompetent 'leaders' bear the bulk of the responsibility for Africa's wretched state of affairs.

No one can ride you, unless your back is bent.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
^ If you want to go by white definitions

---

LOL You'er white, so posted this for you.

You always go by white definitions right? This is why you are always in disagreement with Clyde Winters and Africana in general.

Or even a BLACK EGYPT!





You're not too bright.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:



[QUOTE]
Definition of black nationalist

: a member of a group of militant blacks who advocate separatism from the whites and the formation of self-governing black communities

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by tific:
Is this a legit topic. An attempt to profile the new members or are you on overtime rates?

Can you clarify multiculturism.

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
What's better Black Nationalism or Multiculturalism?

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Andromeda2025:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
Black people have not experienced Black Nationalism, only Multiculturalism, so that answer is unknown.

Even in Africa multiple cultures have intermingled.

---

There are numerous black nations in Africa

---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGCK2RGVnKA

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
there are many hundreds of thousands of such communities in Africa that are 100% black

---

They are NOT NATIONALISTIC.


I understand the yearn for a "white nationalist nation", but it was whites nationalism who went to other continents to mess up their progress.

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
What are called African Nations today are largely derived from boundaries established by European colonists in their interest

---

Indeed, this involved white nationalistic ideas.

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
Although many of these black nations are over 90% black they don't have a black only policy

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
Nevertheless they are much closer to being all black than in America where the whole territory is under the dominion of the U.S. government and it's laws.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
So one of these African governments could institute a Black Nationalist state and they would only have to separate out 10% or less of the non-black population to achieve this

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
Yep, thus are not nationalistic. In fact "other people" are welcomed.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
Yep, thus are not nationalistic. In fact "other people" are welcomed.

---

Nationalism is merely tribalism on a large scale

---

Dude, this is why there is no Black Nationalism in Africa!!!!!!
 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
Black people have never had a social system of agency to promote black development and progress via the oppression and subjugation of other populations based on differences in language, skin color and ethnicity. Europeans define their progress to this day in their ability to oppress, kill, enslave and subjugate populations based on skin color. Nationalism is not an inherently bad term, but the white colonists have framed the term in such a way that black folks owning the land they have been on for thousands of years is a "bad thing". Because that would keep the resources and money from flowing to the colonists and their enterprises. According to this logic the only "good" nationalism is white nationalism meaning white folks exploiting everyone elses labor and resources for the benefit of a few white oligarchs at the very top. This is why Macron the new French President is so worried about population increases in Africa but not population increases in America, China or India, the three most populous counties on earth. So in this framework any thing "black" is bad, even if the exact same thing is done by everybody else. When blacks own stores and hire blacks it is racist. But when Mexicans do it or Chinese do it and Koreans or Indians do it, oh that is perfectly fine.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
Black people have never had a social system of agency to promote black development and progress via the oppression and subjugation of other populations based on differences in language, skin color and ethnicity. Europeans define their progress to this day in their ability to oppress, kill, enslave and subjugate populations based on skin color. Nationalism is not an inherently bad term, but the white colonists have framed the term in such a way that black folks owning the land they have been on for thousands of years is a "bad thing". Because that would keep the resources and money from flowing to the colonists and their enterprises. According to this logic the only "good" nationalism is white nationalism meaning white folks exploiting everyone elses labor and resources for the benefit of a few white oligarchs at the very top. This is why Macron the new French President is so worried about population increases in Africa but not population increases in America, China or India, the three most populous counties on earth. So in this framework any thing "black" is bad, even if the exact same thing is done by everybody else. When blacks own stores and hire blacks it is racist. But when Mexicans do it or Chinese do it and Koreans or Indians do it, oh that is perfectly fine.

---

Lioness proposed this, so lioness can find away to accuse white supremacy aka white nationalism. This is the lioness legacy, don't you get it?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
Yep, thus are not nationalistic. In fact "other people" are welcomed.

---

Nationalism is merely tribalism on a large scale

---

Dude, this is why there is no Black Nationalism in Africa!!!!!!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
Black people have never had a social system of agency to promote black development and progress via the oppression and subjugation of other populations based on differences in language, skin color and ethnicity. Europeans define their progress to this day in their ability to oppress, kill, enslave and subjugate populations based on skin color. Nationalism is not an inherently bad term, but the white colonists have framed the term in such a way that black folks owning the land they have been on for thousands of years is a "bad thing". Because that would keep the resources and money from flowing to the colonists and their enterprises. According to this logic the only "good" nationalism is white nationalism meaning white folks exploiting everyone elses labor and resources for the benefit of a few white oligarchs at the very top. This is why Macron the new French President is so worried about population increases in Africa but not population increases in America, China or India, the three most populous counties on earth. So in this framework any thing "black" is bad, even if the exact same thing is done by everybody else. When blacks own stores and hire blacks it is racist. But when Mexicans do it or Chinese do it and Koreans or Indians do it, oh that is perfectly fine.

---

Lioness proposed this, so lioness can find away to accuse white supremacy aka white nationalism. This is the lioness legacy, don't you get it?

---

How could anyone get your confused thoughts?

I proposed something so I can find a way to accuse white nationalism.

So I am accusing white nationalism of something.

I don't recommend anybody assume what Ish Gebor says makes sense.

---

I am referencing to your 10-year history and thousands of post here.

To sit here "acting" as if this all is not true, is merely hilarious.
 

---

Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
Yep, thus are not nationalistic. In fact "other people" are welcomed.

---

Nationalism is merely tribalism on a large scale

---

Dude, this is why there is no Black Nationalism in Africa!!!!!!

---

As usual you are not making sense

Kwame Nkrumah, Idi Amin, Muammar Gaddafi, Kenyatta, Haile Selassie, Azikiwe were all Nationalists.

---

This still doesn't mean that black nations were Nationalistic. They still favored multiculturalism over nationalism.

You are desperate and hopeless.
 

---

Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
 
Nationalism is merely tribalism on a large scale.
It doesn't have to be skin color based
Therefore multiculturalism is not it's opposite.
 

---

Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
Nationalism is the control of institutions, means of production, land and resources within the boundaries of a NATION by the population of said nation. White nationalism is the control of institutions, means of production, land and resources within the boundaries of a nation built on other peoples land, labor and resources... AKA Colonies. Europeans over the last 500 years have warped the concept of nationalism into something totally different from the original meaning. All ancient civilizations and empires were by definition nationalistic in that the basis of civilization is the development of the Nation State. Black people as a group have NEVER gone anywhere to create nations based on the subjugation and oppression of non black people. So what Europeans mean by nationalism or civilization is totally different from what black people mean by nationalism or civilization. And as a result of European conquest what black people generally mean by nationalism is the natural state of black people having and controlling their own lives and well being on some level from community, to town to region to nation.

And no it isn't "tribal" because nations imply multiple "tribes" living together for the common good of the nation state.

In fact this is why 'globalization' is a byproduct of European colonization and conquest because it implies a world where all land labor and resources is somehow under the control of Europeans or European led institutions.
 

---

Posted by Clyde Winters (Member # 10129) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
Nationalism is merely tribalism on a large scale.
It doesn't have to be skin color based
Therefore multiculturalism is not it's opposite.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
White nationalism is the control of institutions, means of production, land and resources within the boundaries of a nation built on other peoples land, labor and resources... AKA Colonies.

---

quote:

---

The nature of Egyptian imperialism

It is clear that the Egyptians considered themselves superior to non-Egyptians. For example, many inscriptions refer to Nubia as ‘the vile Kush’ or ‘the wretched Kush’. The Nubians are also sometimes called ‘troglodytes’ (primitive, barbaric cave dwellers). The following excerpt from the Tombos Stela of Thutmose I is a good example of such language:

The Nubian Troglodytes fall by the sword, and are thrust aside in their lands; their foulness, it floods their valleys; the [—] of their mouths is like a violent flood .

The same kind of language was used to describe the peoples of Syria–Palestine who were frequently referred to as ‘miserable Asiatics’.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
Nationalism is merely tribalism on a large scale.
It doesn't have to be skin color based

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

Therefore multiculturalism is not it's opposite.

---

You yourself proposed these two as opposites. You can't find it, so now you dismiss it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
These would be nations where only black

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:

America was formerly a white nationalist state

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Clyde Winters:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
Nationalism is merely tribalism on a large scale.
It doesn't have to be skin color based
Therefore multiculturalism is not it's opposite.

---

I have to agree with lioness that European Nationalism is basically tribalism. That's why we have seen wars between nations in Europe because of their national origin, e.g. France against Germany.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug M:
White nationalism is imperialism. That is the point.

[…]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
The nature of Egyptian imperialism

It is clear that the Egyptians considered themselves superior to non-Egyptians. For example, many inscriptions refer to Nubia as ‘the vile Kush’ or ‘the wretched Kush’. The Nubians are also sometimes called ‘troglodytes’ (primitive, barbaric cave dwellers). The following excerpt from the Tombos Stela of Thutmose I is a good example of such language:

The Nubian Troglodytes fall by the sword, and are thrust aside in their lands; their foulness, it floods their valleys; the [—] of their mouths is like a violent flood .

The same kind of language was used to describe the peoples of Syria–Palestine who were frequently referred to as ‘miserable Asiatics’.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
Nationalism is merely tribalism on a large scale.
It doesn't have to be skin color based
Therefore multiculturalism is not it's opposite.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by sudaniya:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
Nationalism is merely tribalism on a large scale.
It doesn't have to be skin color based
Therefore multiculturalism is not it's opposite.

---

This is precisely why definitions are tremendously important in that they provide context and determine how we asses things. A tribe is a Nation. While homogenous Japan is a Nation, Sudan is clearly not; it is a combination of dozens of different Nationalities. Sudan (like most in Africa) is just a country.

People of the same Nation must largely be virtually genetically, phenotypically and culturally indistiguishable. The idea of a 'black' Nation in Africa is actually a nonsensical non-starter but I make use of it because it's clear what people mean by it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
[The nature of Egyptian imperialism

It is clear that the Egyptians considered themselves superior to non-Egyptians. For example, many inscriptions refer to Nubia as ‘the vile Kush’ or ‘the wretched Kush’. The Nubians are also sometimes called ‘troglodytes’ (primitive, barbaric cave dwellers). The following excerpt from the Tombos Stela of Thutmose I is a good example of such language:

The Nubian Troglodytes fall by the sword, and are thrust aside in their lands; their foulness, it floods their valleys; the [—] of their mouths is like a violent flood .

The same kind of language was used to describe the peoples of Syria–Palestine who were frequently referred to as ‘miserable Asiatics’.

---

This one was funny, considering that Egypt arose out of Kush. Like America arose out of England.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by sudaniya:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the lioness,:
[The nature of Egyptian imperialism

It is clear that the Egyptians considered themselves superior to non-Egyptians. For example, many inscriptions refer to Nubia as ‘the vile Kush’ or ‘the wretched Kush’. The Nubians are also sometimes called ‘troglodytes’ (primitive, barbaric cave dwellers). The following excerpt from the Tombos Stela of Thutmose I is a good example of such language:

The Nubian Troglodytes fall by the sword, and are thrust aside in their lands; their foulness, it floods their valleys; the [—] of their mouths is like a violent flood .

The same kind of language was used to describe the peoples of Syria–Palestine who were frequently referred to as ‘miserable Asiatics’.

---

This one was funny, considering that Egypt arose out of Kush. Like America arose out of England.

---

That is actually incorrect. Kush does not precede Egypt. It's the other way round; Kush was established (as an Egyptian colony) thousands of years after Narmer united the two lands. You could make the case that predynastic cultures in Sudan and Lower 'Nubia' are antecedents to Pharaonic Egypt.

The ancient Egyptians regarded all their neighbours as wretched, treacherous, wicked and existential threats to their ordered world; they also called Asiatics troglodytyes and regarded them to be treacherous.

---

I refer to Kush as the South, not by modern interpretation or a colony, I could have just the word Nub etc.
But if you truly want to believe that "Egypt" arose before the South, so be it.
 

---

Posted by sudaniya (Member # 15779) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by sudaniya:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ish Gebor:

quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness,:
[The nature of Egyptian imperialism

It is clear that the Egyptians considered themselves superior to non-Egyptians. For example, many inscriptions refer to Nubia as ‘the vile Kush’ or ‘the wretched Kush’. The Nubians are also sometimes called ‘troglodytes’ (primitive, barbaric cave dwellers). The following excerpt from the Tombos Stela of Thutmose I is a good example of such language:

The Nubian Troglodytes fall by the sword, and are thrust aside in their lands; their foulness, it floods their valleys; the [—] of their mouths is like a violent flood .

The same kind of language was used to describe the peoples of Syria–Palestine who were frequently referred to as ‘miserable Asiatics’.

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This one was funny, considering that Egypt arose out of Kush. Like America arose out of England.

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That is actually incorrect. Kush does not precede Egypt. It's the other way round; Kush was established (as an Egyptian colony) thousands of years after Narmer united the two lands. You could make the case that predynastic cultures in Sudan and Lower 'Nubia' are antecedents to Pharaonic Egypt.

The ancient Egyptians regarded all their neighbours as wretched, treacherous, wicked and existential threats to their ordered world; they also called Asiatics troglodytyes and regarded them to be treacherous.

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I refer to Kush as the South, not by modern interpretation, I could have just the word Nub. But if you truly want to believe that "Egypt" arose before the South, so be it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by sudaniya:
I think we have a small, perfectly solvable mis-understanding; you specifically mentioned Kush, and so I thought you were referring to that particular State.

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quote:

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Originally posted by sudaniya:
You and I are in agreement that the South birthed the ancient Egyptian civilization.

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I know, I said it to annoy you.
 

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Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 
Tribe does not equate to nation. KMT arose from the unification of various clans into a single political entity. China was and is a conglomerate of various ethnic groups. While ethnicity can play a role in nationality, nationalism by definition is the creation of a national construct as the highest definition of identity and purpose for a population. Nationhood is an evolution of social organization by which multiple ethnic populations can unify under a common cause and banner for a larger purpose. Greece was similarly a multi-ethnic population. So was Rome. That myth of 'racial purity' being the basis of the rise of nation states is European garbage that they promote to support their imperial globalist agenda. It has no basis in reality. Look at all the images of various other "nations" as depicted in Ancient Egyptian art. They were all multi-ethnic.
 

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Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Doug M:
Tribe does not equate to nation. KMT arose from the unification of various clans into a single political entity. China was and is a conglomerate of various ethnic groups. While ethnicity can play a role in nationality, nationalism by definition is the creation of a national construct as the highest definition of identity and purpose for a population. Nationhood is an evolution of social organization by which multiple ethnic populations can unify under a common cause and banner for a larger purpose. Greece was similarly a multi-ethnic population. So was Rome. That myth of 'racial purity' being the basis of the rise of nation states is European garbage that they promote to support their imperial globalist agenda. It has no basis in reality. Look at all the images of various other "nations" as depicted in Ancient Egyptian art. They were all multi-ethnic.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Doug M:
Tribe does not equate to nation. KMT arose from the unification of various clans into a single political entity. China was and is a conglomerate of various ethnic groups. While ethnicity can play a role in nationality, nationalism by definition is the creation of a national construct as the highest definition of identity and purpose for a population. Nationhood is an evolution of social organization by which multiple ethnic populations can unify under a common cause and banner for a larger purpose. Greece was similarly a multi-ethnic population. So was Rome. That myth of 'racial purity' being the basis of the rise of nation states is European garbage that they promote to support their imperial globalist agenda. It has no basis in reality. Look at all the images of various other "nations" as depicted in Ancient Egyptian art. They were all multi-ethnic.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Doug M:
Look at all the images of various other "nations" as depicted in Ancient Egyptian art. They were all multi-ethnic.

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The Egyptians were imperialists. They liked to make pictures depicting their enemies with their arms bound
behind their backs, trampled by chariots
and body parts chopped off and pictures of processions of conquered groups paying them tributes.


Here's Narmer ready to club some other ethnic group to death.
On the obverse side, upper right, people with their heads chopped off

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narmer_Palette#/media/File:Narmer_Palette.jpg





Or Rameses depicted as bigger than other groups and ready to club them in the head




 

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Posted by sudaniya (Member # 15779) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

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Originally posted by Doug M:
Look at all the images of various other "nations" as depicted in Ancient Egyptian art. They were all multi-ethnic.

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The Egyptians were imperialists. They liked to make pictures depicting their enemies with their arms bound
behind their backs, trampled by chariots
and body parts chopped off and pictures of processions of conquered groups paying them tributes.


Here's Narmer ready to club some other ethnic group to death.
On the obverse side, upper right, people with their heads chopped off

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narmer_Palette#/media/File:Narmer_Palette.jpg





Or Rameses depicted as bigger than other groups and ready to club them in the head

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ish Gebor:

quote:

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Originally posted by sudaniya:
I think we have a small, perfectly solvable mis-understanding; you specifically mentioned Kush, and so I thought you were referring to that particular State.

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The name "Nubia" also came into use in the Roman period. So it is all semantics at the end of the day. The question is, what was the Southern region called before this time?

The problem here is that all this was and is based on western interpretation. They have written history for the past 400 years or so and everybody follows this doctrine, including African people.


http://www.occasionalwitness.com/content/nuba/01History01.htm#I


http://www.occasionalwitness.com/content/nuba/01History02.htm


http://www.occasionalwitness.com/content/nuba/01History03.html

quote:

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Originally posted by sudaniya:
You and I are in agreement that the South birthed the ancient Egyptian civilization.

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I know, I said it to annoy you.

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quote:

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Originally posted by sudaniya:


The ancient Egyptians seemed to have always been facing threats from Asiatics, and so I think they created military outposts in the Levant to better secure their Nation in response to these dangers.

Kush was the only threat from the South, and they almost wiped out Egypt at one point, so Egypt's response to Kush was understandable.

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quote:

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"[Reign of] Sneferu. Year ...
The building of Tuataua ships of meru wood "adoring the two lands"
of one hundred cubits, and 60 royal boats of sixteen capacity.
Hacking up the Nubians, and the bringing back 7,000
captives, men and women, and 20,000 cattle, sheep, and
goats...
Construction of the "mansions of Sneferu in Upper and Lower Egypt
bringing of forty ships of cedar wood (or perhaps "laden with cedar
wood").

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Sneferu was able to capture large numbers of people from other nations, make them his prisoners and then add them into his labour force. During his raids into Nubia and Libya, he also captured cattle for the sustenance of his massive labour force. Such incursions must have been incredibly devastating to the populations of the raided countries, and it is suggested that the campaigns into Nubia may have contributed to the dissemination of the Nubian A-Group culture of that region. Sneferu's military efforts in Libya led to the capture of 11,000 prisoners and 13,100 head of cattle.Aside from the extensive import of cedar (most likely from Lebanon) described above, there is evidence of activity in the turquoise mines on the Sinai Peninsula.






 

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Posted by Doug M (Member # 7650) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by sudaniya:

quote:

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Originally posted by Doug M:
Tribe does not equate to nation. KMT arose from the unification of various clans into a single political entity. China was and is a conglomerate of various ethnic groups. While ethnicity can play a role in nationality, nationalism by definition is the creation of a national construct as the highest definition of identity and purpose for a population. Nationhood is an evolution of social organization by which multiple ethnic populations can unify under a common cause and banner for a larger purpose. Greece was similarly a multi-ethnic population. So was Rome. That myth of 'racial purity' being the basis of the rise of nation states is European garbage that they promote to support their imperial globalist agenda. It has no basis in reality. Look at all the images of various other "nations" as depicted in Ancient Egyptian art. They were all multi-ethnic.

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A State and a Nation are not the same thing. A country can be comprised of dozens of different Nationalities, and when they construct an all inclusive identity and define and protect their collective interests... that's patriotism.

The Nuer call themselves a Nation and judge their sons and daughters according to their commitment to the Nuer Nation -- not to the country that is South Sudan. That's Nationalism.

With the exception of the Minoans, the Greeks all maintained that they were all descendants of Helen; they spoke dialects of the same language, worshipped the same gods and were culturally very similar. They were a Nation - just not a State.

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quote:

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Hollywood street vendor was attacked and a recording of the incident has gone viral since being posted Monday. Benjamin Ramirez sells elotes (corn) and was doing his job when he was approached by a woman and a man with a dog. In the video, the man, wearing sunglasses and a hat, confronts Ramirez and tells him in Spanish to move his food cart. The man exchanges some words with Ramirez before he pushes Ramirez’ cart to the ground, dumping corn, chicharrones and two coolers onto the street. The woman then tells Ramirez to "stay away," adding in an expletive into her warning.

"I’m recording this because this racist threw my things," the 24-year-old vendor says in the video. The man replies, "I’m not racist. I’m Argentinian," and then proceeds to berate the vendor. The video, which was recorded by Ramirez, has been seen 4.6 million times at its original Facebook post at time of publication.

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quote:

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Whether it is tall or short, dark skin or light skin, skinny or fat, diversity in appearances has created a beauty hierarchy in the United States, and mass media has always played a huge role in forming it. For instance, according to the YWCA Report: Beauty at Any Cost, “one study found that only 30 minutes of TV programming and advertising can change the way a young woman perceives the shape of her body.”

The unattainable standards of perfection shown in TV programming, magazines and even Barbie dolls were some of the reasons why 21-year-old Zuly Garcia decided to break down beauty norms with her photography project, “Flores Políticos” (Political Flowers). The project’s goal is to dismantle the beauty standards that Garcia felt pressured to be a part of growing up.

Garcia’s mother is from Oaxaca, a southern state in Mexico, known for its indigenous people (primarily the Zapotecs and Mixtecs), native cultures and craft.

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quote:

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Originally posted by sudaniya:
What specific evidence do you have that Narmer was smiting foreigners? They could just be Egyptians opposed to his ascendance and rule.

The ancient Egyptians seemed to have always been facing threats from Asiatics, and so I think they created military outposts in the Levant to better secure their Nation in response to these dangers.

Kush was the only threat from the South, and they almost wiped out Egypt at one point, so Egypt's response to Kush was understandable.

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quote:

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Originally posted by the lioness,:

quote:

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Originally posted by sudaniya:


The ancient Egyptians seemed to have always been facing threats from Asiatics, and so I think they created military outposts in the Levant to better secure their Nation in response to these dangers.

Kush was the only threat from the South, and they almost wiped out Egypt at one point, so Egypt's response to Kush was understandable.

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The back history is much earlier than that


Sneferu

Sneferu was the founding king of the 4th dynasty during the Old Kingdom. Estimates of his reign vary between 2613 BC to 2589 BC a reign of 24 -30 year. He built at least three pyramids


To enable Sneferu to undertake massive building projects, he would have had to secure an extensive store of labour and materials. Sneferu’s conquests into Libya and Nubia served two purposes: the first goal was to establish an extensive labour force, and the second goal was to gain access to the raw materials and special products that were available in these countries. This is alluded to in the Palermo stone:

quote:

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"[Reign of] Sneferu. Year ...
The building of Tuataua ships of meru wood "adoring the two lands"
of one hundred cubits, and 60 royal boats of sixteen capacity.
Hacking up the Nubians, and the bringing back 7,000
captives, men and women, and 20,000 cattle, sheep, and
goats...
Construction of the "mansions of Sneferu in Upper and Lower Egypt
bringing of forty ships of cedar wood (or perhaps "laden with cedar
wood").

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Sneferu was able to capture large numbers of people from other nations, make them his prisoners and then add them into his labour force. During his raids into Nubia and Libya, he also captured cattle for the sustenance of his massive labour force. Such incursions must have been incredibly devastating to the populations of the raided countries, and it is suggested that the campaigns into Nubia may have contributed to the dissemination of the Nubian A-Group culture of that region. Sneferu's military efforts in Libya led to the capture of 11,000 prisoners and 13,100 head of cattle.Aside from the extensive import of cedar (most likely from Lebanon) described above, there is evidence of activity in the turquoise mines on the Sinai Peninsula.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/53/Snefru_hed-seb_festival.jpg/1024px-Snefru_hed-seb_festival.jpg


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-EDJY5JM33_I/UOm3DPzlvBI/AAAAAAAAAOI/lhiA5efRCQ8/s640/maghara.jpg

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Are you telling that the term "Nubian" existed during Sneferu his days?

Despite this, the quote is much telling

"Hacking up the Nubians, and the bringing back 7,000
captives, men and women, and 20,000 cattle, sheep, and
goats…"


And how were they able to reconstruct this, whomever constructed and found this:

"Such incursions must have been incredibly devastating to the populations of the raided countries, and it is suggested that the campaigns into Nubia may have contributed to the dissemination of the Nubian A-Group culture of that region. Sneferu's military efforts in Libya led to the capture of 11,000 prisoners and 13,100 head of cattle."'
 

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Posted by Ish Gebor (Member # 18264) on :
 
Above we see similar aspects.

https://www.geni.com/people/Sneferu-Pharaoh-of-Egypt/6000000003645877978

quote:

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Originally posted by sudaniya:


That's a good point. We all have to free our minds from their myth-making and self-serving propaganda.

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