We have DNA-data from som of the ancient human remains found in the Canarians, we have some mummies, we also have descriptions from the Spanish conqurers. But we also have some old pictures, for example the ones by the Italian architect Leonardo Torriani, who spent some years in the second half of the 1500s on the Canary islands, visiting most o the islands.
Indigenous people from El Hierro, Leonardo Torriani 1592
Indigenous people from Gomero, Leonardo Torriano 1592
Indigenous people of Gran Canaria. Leonardo Torriano 1592
We also have some depictions the Canarians made of themselves in art.
Female idol from Galdar, Gran Canaria
Which more pictorial evidence do we have showing how the ancient Canarians looked like?
Can we get a comprehensive view of their appearance based on art?
Posted by Antalas (Member # 23506) on :
Thanks and be careful djehuti will come and post a creole population from the bioko island claiming them to be "guanche"
Posted by Ish Geber (Member # 18264) on :
Are there still Bimbache from El Hierro around, and what happened to them after the Spanish conquest of the Canary Islands that took place between 1402 and 1496? There's stories going around the Spanish enslaved them and sold them off as slaves?
quote: Ordóñez et al. 2017 examined the remains of a large number of Bimbache buried at Punta Azul, El Hierro c. 1015-1200 AD. The 16 samples of Y-DNA extracted belonged to the paternal haplogroups E1a (1 sample), E1b1b1a1 (7 samples) and R1b1a2 (7 samples).[2] All the extracted samples of mtDNA belonged to the maternal haplogroup H1-1626. E1a is most common in sub-Saharan Africa, while E1b1b1a1 is very common in North Africa. R1b1a2 is considered a typical European lineage, but is also found at low frequencies in North Africa. About 10% of examined Guanches of Gran Canaria have been found to be carriers of R1b1a2. The dominance of a single maternal lineage (H1-1626) suggested that the Bimbache were a matrilineal society. The authors of the study suggested that the Bimbache were descended from the earliest of two or more migration waves from North Africa to the Canary Islands.
Demographic history of Canary Islands male gene-pool: replacement of native lineages by European Rosa Fregel, et al. BMC Evolutionary Biology 2009, 9:181 doi:10.1186/1471-2148-9-181
quote:Originally posted by Antalas: Thanks and be careful djehuti will come and post a creole population from the bioko island claiming them to be "guanche"
Djehuti probably would post this:
quote: On January 13, 1435, Eugene IV issued from Florence the bull Sicut Duhum. Sent to Bishop Ferdinand, located at Rubicon on the island of Lanzarote, this bull condemned the enslavement of the black natives of the newly colonized Canary Islands off the coast of Africa.
quote:Originally posted by Antalas: Thanks and be careful djehuti will come and post a creole population from the bioko island claiming them to be "guanche"
Djehuti probably would post this:
quote: On January 13, 1435, Eugene IV issued from Florence the bull Sicut Duhum. Sent to Bishop Ferdinand, located at Rubicon on the island of Lanzarote, this bull condemned the enslavement of the black natives of the newly colonized Canary Islands off the coast of Africa.
I already debunked this, there is no mention of "black" in the original document that was simply an assumption made by the author Joel S Panzer
Posted by Ish Geber (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Antalas:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Geber:
quote:Originally posted by Antalas: Thanks and be careful djehuti will come and post a creole population from the bioko island claiming them to be "guanche"
Djehuti probably would post this:
quote: On January 13, 1435, Eugene IV issued from Florence the bull Sicut Duhum. Sent to Bishop Ferdinand, located at Rubicon on the island of Lanzarote, this bull condemned the enslavement of the black natives of the newly colonized Canary Islands off the coast of Africa.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Geber: Are there still Bimbache from El Hierro around, and what happened to them after the Spanish conquest of the Canary Islands that took place between 1402 and 1496? There's stories going around the Spanish enslaved them and sold them off as slaves?
quote: Ordóñez et al. 2017 examined the remains of a large number of Bimbache buried at Punta Azul, El Hierro c. 1015-1200 AD. The 16 samples of Y-DNA extracted belonged to the paternal haplogroups E1a (1 sample), E1b1b1a1 (7 samples) and R1b1a2 (7 samples).[2] All the extracted samples of mtDNA belonged to the maternal haplogroup H1-1626. E1a is most common in sub-Saharan Africa, while E1b1b1a1 is very common in North Africa. R1b1a2 is considered a typical European lineage, but is also found at low frequencies in North Africa. About 10% of examined Guanches of Gran Canaria have been found to be carriers of R1b1a2. The dominance of a single maternal lineage (H1-1626) suggested that the Bimbache were a matrilineal society. The authors of the study suggested that the Bimbache were descended from the earliest of two or more migration waves from North Africa to the Canary Islands.
Demographic history of Canary Islands male gene-pool: replacement of native lineages by European Rosa Fregel, et al. BMC Evolutionary Biology 2009, 9:181 doi:10.1186/1471-2148-9-181
quote:Regarding the origin of El Hierro aboriginal population, Slatkin-linearized Fst distances based on autosomal STR are congruent with a great similarity of the Bimbapes with Berbers from Morocco , and a significant differentiation from Europe. This result is in accordance to previous archaeological, linguistic and genetic evidence about the Berber origin of aboriginal people. One of the most outstanding archaeological remains from El Hierro consists of a series of lybicberber inscriptions, clearly related with the ancient North African Berber's inscriptions
moreover why do you purposely avoid some part of your quote ? :
quote:The 16 samples of Y-DNA extracted belonged to the paternal haplogroups E1a (1 sample), E1b1b1a1 (7 samples) and R1b1a2 (7 samples).[/B] [2] All the extracted samples of mtDNA belonged to the maternal haplogroup H1-1626. E1a is most common in sub-Saharan Africa, while E1b1b1a1 is very common in North Africa. R1b1a2 is considered a typical European lineage, but is also found at low frequencies in North Africa.
Many modern north africans have typical SSA y-dna or mtdna so it's better to look at autosomal or biometric results. These ancient canary islanders plot right inside the modern north african cluster :
When it comes to dental morphology they were similar to modern north africans (note that the "bedouin Arabs" are actually arabized moroccans) :
quote:The MMD analysis indicates that the Canary Island sample is most similar to the four samples from Northwest Africa: the Shawia Berbers, Kabyle Berbers, Bedouin Arabs and Carthaginians, less similar to the three Egyptian samples and least like the three Nubian samples.
Moreover the second study you posted concern the post-european conquest era and explain why modern canarians are more european than berbers :
quote: The European colonization of the Canary Islands introduced a strong sex-biased change in the indigenous population in such a way that indigenous female lineages survived in the extant population in a significantly higher proportion than their male counterparts.
Posted by Antalas (Member # 23506) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ish Geber: Do you have the original document and who debunked this?
Pope Eugene IV Against the Enslaving of Black Natives from the Canary Islands
as you can see there is no mention of "black" canarians, that "black" is only present in the title of Joel S. Panzer
Posted by the lioness, (Member # 17353) on :
No calling out other posters names please, saying "so and so" would say "this and that", thanks
Posted by Ish Geber (Member # 18264) on :
quote:Originally posted by Antalas: Regarding the origin of El Hierro aboriginal population, Slatkin-linearized Fst distances based on autosomal STR are congruent with a great similarity of the Bimbapes with Berbers from Morocco , and a significant differentiation from Europe. This result is in accordance to previous archaeological, linguistic and genetic evidence about the Berber origin of aboriginal people. One of the most outstanding archaeological remains from El Hierro consists of a series of lybicberber inscriptions, clearly related with the ancient North African Berber's inscriptions
Interesting source Alejandra C.Ordóñez, Genetic studies on the prehispanic population buried in Punta Azul cave (El Hierro, Canary Islands)
Y-chromosome typing
For Y-chromosome analysis, we used the protocol proposed by (Fregel et al., 2009a). Briefly, sixteen biallelic markers that characterize the most prevalent lineages in NW Africa, Sub-Saharan Africa and Europe (M2, M9, M33, M34, M45, M60, M78, M81, M89, M96, M170, M172, M173, M201, M267, M269) were amplified in three different multiplex-SNaPshot assays. SNaPshot products were run on an ABI PRISM 3130 Genetic Analyzer (Applied Biosystems) and results were analyzed using GeneMapper 4.0 software (Applied Biosystems).
Finally, one sample belonged to E-M33 haplogroup. Although this lineage has its origin in sub-Saharan Africa, it is present in both the Canarian aboriginal population and in North Africa with a frequency ~3% (Arredi et al., 2004; Fregel et al., 2009a)."
quote:Originally posted by Antalas: moreover why do you purposely avoid some part of your quote ?
I purposely emphasize the part that is usually avoided.
quote:Originally posted by Antalas: The MMD analysis indicates that the Canary Island sample is most similar to the four samples from Northwest Africa: the Shawia Berbers, Kabyle Berbers, Bedouin Arabs and Carthaginians, less similar to the three Egyptian samples and least like the three Nubian samples. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0018442X04700153
Interesting observation.
quote:Originally posted by Antalas: Moreover the second study you posted concern the post-european conquest era and explain why modern canarians are more european than berbers
Apparently they have been enslaved, diluted and absorbed by the incoming population.
quote: Haplogroup H dominates present-day Western European mitochondrial DNA variability (>40%), yet was less common (~19%) among Early Neolithic farmers (~5450 BC) and virtually absent in Mesolithic hunter-gatherers.
Here we investigate this major component of the maternal population history of modern Europeans and sequence 39 complete haplogroup H mitochondrial genomes from ancient human remains. We then compare this 'real-time' genetic data with cultural changes taking place between the Early Neolithic (~5450 BC) and Bronze Age (~2200 BC) in Central Europe. Our results reveal that the current diversity and distribution of haplogroup H were largely established by the Mid Neolithic (~4000 BC), but with substantial genetic contributions from subsequent pan-European cultures such as the Bell Beakers expanding out of Iberia in the Late Neolithic (~2800 BC). Dated haplogroup H genomes allow us to reconstruct the recent evolutionary history of haplogroup H and reveal a mutation rate 45% higher than current estimates for human mitochondria.
(Brotherton P1, Haak W, Templeton J, Nat Commun. 2013;4:1764. doi: 10.1038/ncomms2656., Neolithic mitochondrial haplogroup H genomes and the genetic origins of Europeans.)
as you can see there is no mention of "black" canarians, that "black" is only present in the title of Joel S. Panzer
I will look for the document by Pope Eugene IV. Since he was the original author. And why the title is called "Against the Enslaving of Black Natives from the Canary Islands".
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: No calling out other posters names please, saying "so and so" would say "this and that", thanks
Ok, cool.
Posted by Thereal (Member # 22452) on :
I doubt they were that ligh. Here's a weather atlas of Grab Canaria,go to the bottom of the page for the yearly UV index,its lowest point is a 4 and its highest is a 11.
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