Originally posted by Antalas:
Thereal implied I was racist but no as you can see I'm not the only one who noticed this trend :
What a pity one of my favorite universe getting destroyed by their ideology ; I don't even think I'll watch it.
quote:Caroline Henderson
Caroline Henderson (born February 28, 1962) is a Danish–Swedish pop-jazz singer and actress. She portrays Jarl Estrid Haakon in the Netflix series Vikings: Valhalla.
Henderson was born in Stockholm, Sweden. She grew up in Philadelphia, New York, and Paris, before moving to Copenhagen, Denmark in 1983 and spent her youth singing in various jazz bands. She was part of the pop group Ray Dee Ohh in 1989. After the group disbanded, Henderson launched a solo career with multi award-winning album Cinemataztic in 1995.
Henderson has also appeared as an actress in plays and films, and has produced 12 studio albums, winning eight Danish Music Awards for her music over the years. Henderson appeared in the Spanish feature film Tuya Siempre. She also starred in the Pulitzer prize winning play Disgraced. She is known for her work on Always Yours, Max Pinlig, and Gooseboy.
quote:Because it's not historically accurate and I'm also talking about a more general trend look for example with the recent witcher show or the upcoming lotr serie...they're forcing too much with their agenda that it doesn't even make any sense now.
Originally posted by Thereal:
Why do you care? Supposedly you aren't white,it strange as non-white European you would care so much. Also,there are Black Arabs and Indians as dark as Africans and some quite comparable to Africans phenotypically. Lastly, East Asia is a region.
quote:why ? It should logically bothers you too because it breaks the coherence.
Originally posted by Thereal:
You say that but I don't believe you.
quote:I do agree with you on the political and economic motifs but I feel like there is more to it because for example in France or Belgium ; north africans are much more numerous than blacks yet you barely see any north african in the media and 3/4 of the ads have at least one black or mulatto.
Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
It has indeed become a trend in media (both social media and film/TV) inserting black, or subsaharan African looking, people in other, non African peoples history. One can discern both political and economic motifs behind this, especially since African Americans, and Europeans with African background are groups that grow economically and who are consumers of popular culture. Also an Afrocentric agenda together with so called political correctness can be coupled to the phenomena.
Many defenders of this trend points to that white, Europeans have done the same, inserted themselves into others history, during longer time and in larger scale. But one can wonder if two wrongs makes one right?
quote:what are you talking about ? None of these people are black or white so why aren't they represented in medias ? Where is this "diversity" ?
Originally posted by Thereal:
That guy is blind or something. Asia is a region, Arab is a type of culture in western Asia and the origin Latins/o are European. Depending on the casting,the issue would be the form of the face than color.
quote:I suppose you'd feel more comfortable with all the non-European people fighting on Sauron's side like in the original Lord of the Rings books?
Originally posted by Antalas:
Thereal implied I was racist but no as you can see I'm not the only one who noticed this trend :
What a pity one of my favorite universe getting destroyed by their ideology ; I don't even think I'll watch it.
quote:Oh come on, stop being racist
Originally posted by Antalas:
Thereal implied I was racist but no as you can see I'm not the only one who noticed this trend :
What a pity one of my favorite universe getting destroyed by their ideology ; I don't even think I'll watch it.
quote:Plus, controversy sells, or at least gets your property in the news. It’s like a form of trolling.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
They might be able to bring in a lager black audience with these characters and make more money, that is another factor, it's not just some pure social justice move
quote:Well if you actually knew anything about that universe you would have known that not all of them joined sauron and not all evil humans were "non-european". The false accusations of tolkien being racist have already been debunked.
Originally posted by BrandonP:
I suppose you'd feel more comfortable with all the non-European people fighting on Sauron's side like in the original Lord of the Rings books?
quote:Racism ? How is that racism ? I literally said that If they had put north african actors I'd have also been pissed. It wouldn't have been a problem if actually those black actors were humans coming from Umbar or south Harad but here they've put them among dwarves, hobbits, elves, etc how is that supposed to make sense ? It totally breaks the immersion and coherence + they say it has to be inclusive and includes member of minorities yet I don't see any minority being represented here it's always blacks or mulattoes.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Oh come on, stop being racist
Originally posted by Antalas:
Thereal implied I was racist but no as you can see I'm not the only one who noticed this trend :
What a pity one of my favorite universe getting destroyed by their ideology ; I don't even think I'll watch it.
You come here to Egyptsearch, majority black forum members and you expect sympathy for not watching it due to the skin color of two characters?
quote:Tolkien had his stand-ins for Africa and Asia (Harad and Rhun, respectively) more or less united in alliance with his arch-villain against the "good guys", the latter all being concentrated in his stand-in for Europe. You don't think that has racist implications at all? Think about it, why did Tolkien choose to have all his good guys fighting on behalf of Europe and all his African and Asian characters (or at least almost all of them) fighting on the bad guys' team?
Originally posted by Antalas:
Well if you actually knew anything about that universe you would have known that not all of them joined sauron and not all evil humans were "non-european". The false accusations of tolkien being racist have already been debunked.
quote:Newsflash, elves and hobbits don't exist
Originally posted by Antalas:
quote:Racism ? How is that racism ? I literally said that If they had put north african actors I'd have also been pissed. It wouldn't have been a problem if actually those black actors were humans coming from Umbar or south Harad but here they've put them among dwarves, hobbits, elves, etc how is that supposed to make sense ? It totally breaks the immersion and coherence + they say it has to be inclusive and includes member of minorities yet I don't see any minority being represented here it's always blacks or mulattoes.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Oh come on, stop being racist
Originally posted by Antalas:
Thereal implied I was racist but no as you can see I'm not the only one who noticed this trend :
What a pity one of my favorite universe getting destroyed by their ideology ; I don't even think I'll watch it.
You come here to Egyptsearch, majority black forum members and you expect sympathy for not watching it due to the skin color of two characters?
quote:Like I said this has already been debunked :
Originally posted by BrandonP:
quote:Tolkien had his stand-ins for Africa and Asia (Harad and Rhun, respectively) more or less united in alliance with his arch-villain against the "good guys", the latter all being concentrated in his stand-in for Europe. You don't think that has racist implications at all? Think about it, why did Tolkien choose to have all his good guys fighting on behalf of Europe and all his African and Asian characters (or at least almost all of them) fighting on the bad guys' team?
Originally posted by Antalas:
Well if you actually knew anything about that universe you would have known that not all of them joined sauron and not all evil humans were "non-european". The false accusations of tolkien being racist have already been debunked.
quote:http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Racism_in_Tolkien%27s_Works
Tolkien also wrote that the Blue Wizards, who do not appear in 'The Lord of the Rings narrative, were sent into the South and East lands to spread dissent and resistance against Sauron. While he wrote on one occasion (as given in Unfinished Tales) that they failed, on another occasion (as given in The Peoples of Middle-earth) he wrote that they were successful, making Sauron's hold on these lands throughout the centuries significantly weaker than it should have been. This prevented Sauron from overwhelming the West with his armies and ultimately contributed to his defeat in the War of the Ring. This means that Southrons and Easterlings resisting Sauron were meant to exist, only that their stories remain untold.
quote:― Letter 61 — Written to Christopher Tolkien who was stationed in South Africa during World War II
As for what you say or hint of ‘local’ conditions: I knew of them. I don't think they have much changed (even for the worse). I used to hear them discussed by my mother; and have ever since taken a special interest in that part of the world. The treatment of colour nearly always horrifies anyone going out from Britain, & not only in South Africa. Unfort[unately], not many retain that generous sentiment for long.
quote:I did not deny that it was above all motivated by economic profit it's just that it's a pity that such universe is affected by these ideological and economic motives. I did not imply black actors perform badly simply that their presence breaks the coherence like I said if they had made them coming from a specific southern place as humans then I'd have had absolutely no problem with it but now how are you supposed to explain the presence of a black elf with kinky hair in the middle of "nordic" looking elves ? Same for dwarves ... fictional or not it has to be at least coherent with what tolkien wrote.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
Newsflash, elves and hobbits don't exist
Rings of Power is costing Amazon about a literal billion dollars
As I just finished saying this is not just a social justice intent, they are analyzing demographic markets and guessing where they could potentially make more money. African Americans are about 47 million of the U.S.
Arabs are 3.5 million
So if the put a black character it corresponds to a population over 13 times the size of the Arab population. So just on demographic marketing they are not going to bother with Arabs.
They know that the audience is mainly white and they are already hooked, they will watched even if a couple fuss about it. So if the put in a couple of black people it could potentially enlarge their audience.
So if people want a billion dollar production they may have to endure their attempts at enlarging their market.
Rings of Power is an entirely fictional work of entertainment
So if they put a couple of black people to play these roles why should anybody care?
Just because you don't like their appearance?
It's acting, performance, theater, and completely mythological [/QB]
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by Antalas:
It starts to be really tiresome and after that black members here dare to play the victims. The thing is they always take black or mulatto actors you'll rarely see an arab, indian, east asian, etc These woke idiots really destroy everything they touch.
I can't even imagine what the future holds...
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Newsflash, elves and hobbits don't exist
Originally posted by Antalas:
quote:Racism ? How is that racism ? I literally said that If they had put north african actors I'd have also been pissed. It wouldn't have been a problem if actually those black actors were humans coming from Umbar or south Harad but here they've put them among dwarves, hobbits, elves, etc how is that supposed to make sense ? It totally breaks the immersion and coherence + they say it has to be inclusive and includes member of minorities yet I don't see any minority being represented here it's always blacks or mulattoes.
Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Oh come on, stop being racist
Originally posted by Antalas:
Thereal implied I was racist but no as you can see I'm not the only one who noticed this trend :
What a pity one of my favorite universe getting destroyed by their ideology ; I don't even think I'll watch it.
You come here to Egyptsearch, majority black forum members and you expect sympathy for not watching it due to the skin color of two characters?
Rings of Power is costing Amazon about a literal billion dollars
As I just finished saying this is not just a social justice intent, they are analyzing demographic markets and guessing where they could potentially make more money. African Americans are about 47 million of the U.S.
Arabs are 3.5 million
So if the put a black character it corresponds to a population over 13 times the size of the Arab population. So just on demographic marketing they are not going to bother with Arabs.
They know that the audience is mainly white and they are already hooked, they will watched even if a couple fuss about it. So if the put in a couple of black people it could potentially enlarge their audience.
So if people want a billion dollar production they may have to endure their attempts at enlarging their market.
Rings of Power is an entirely fictional work of entertainment
So if they put a couple of black people to play these roles why should anybody care?
Just because you don't like their appearance?
It's acting, performance, theater, and completely mythological
quote:yes as a human which makes sense but if she was taken for an elf role it would have been more problematic. Also are you seriously pretending that there as many MENAs/asians in the medias than blacks ? Be honest
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
[QB] An Iranian-British actress, Nazanin Boniadi was cast in the show...
No out cry about that....hmm I wonder why
quote:I literally just wrote that I'd have no problem in universes like Star Wars since it's a galactic cosmopolite world and same for hunger games. If you pay attention to what I wrote I'm pretty sure you would agree with me and it has nothing to do with "racism".
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
[QB] It just boils down to racism, these people complained when Star Wars cast black actors and even when the Hunger Games did it. (Despite the fact that the books heavily implied that district 11, the one Rue came from was black/Dark Skinned)
In the case of the black Viking Jarl, its kinda baseless and silly, but LOTR Rings of Power is fictional...
quote:
Originally posted by Antalas:
quote:yes as a human which makes sense but if she was taken for an elf role it would have been more problematic. Also are you seriously pretending that there as many MENAs/asians in the medias than blacks ? Be honest
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
[QB] An Iranian-British actress, Nazanin Boniadi was cast in the show...
No out cry about that....hmm I wonder why
quote:I'm talking in general : movies/series/Adds
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
What Genre? Historical..??
Sorry but I don't see this fantasy of over saturation of blacks in Media, where is it?
quote:
Originally posted by Antalas:
quote:I literally just wrote that I'd have no problem in universes like Star Wars since it's a galactic cosmopolite world and same for hunger games. If you pay attention to what I wrote I'm pretty sure you would agree with me and it has nothing to do with "racism".
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
[QB] It just boils down to racism, these people complained when Star Wars cast black actors and even when the Hunger Games did it. (Despite the fact that the books heavily implied that district 11, the one Rue came from was black/Dark Skinned)
In the case of the black Viking Jarl, its kinda baseless and silly, but LOTR Rings of Power is fictional...
quote:
Originally posted by Antalas:
quote:I'm talking in general : movies/series/Adds
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
What Genre? Historical..??
Sorry but I don't see this fantasy of over saturation of blacks in Media, where is it?
Here we're more numerous than blacks yet we're never represented in any media even the movies based on true stories that involved north africans all of them got replaced by black actors. And without even exaggerating I think we've reached a point where you see more blacks/mulattoes on screen than whites especially in the advertisement field. I wouldn't care if we were at least also represented but now they even managed to do this with LOTR.
quote:But that's the problem actually they said they knew it would have bothered some but now they have to be inclusive and all that diversity quotas thing so no there are no explanations they just pretend we're somewhat colorblind when we watch a fictional show. Like I said if there was an explanation like these are humans coming from umbar or harad I'd have had absolutely not a single problem with black actors being present in this show and also I didn't imply anything in regards to their acting skills.
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
My comment was'nt directed at you but the homophobic/transphobic garbage human and others like him in that picture you posted.
Fact is these same people were bitching about Star Wars, and The Hunger Games even when the damn books says the character with Dark Brown skin.
I mean if its just inserting a black elf in the show just to meet a quota then sure its silly, but maybe the show explains it, maybe she plays the elf role really good who knows...its fiction at eh end of the day...who cares.
quote:
Originally posted by Antalas:
quote:But that's the problem actually they said they knew it would have bothered some but now they have to be inclusive and all that diversity quotas thing so no there are no explanations they just pretend we're somewhat colorblind when we watch a fictional show. Like I said if there was an explanation like these are humans coming from umbar or harad I'd have had absolutely not a single problem with black actors being present in this show and also I didn't imply anything in regards to their acting skills.
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
My comment was'nt directed at you but the homophobic/transphobic garbage human and others like him in that picture you posted.
Fact is these same people were bitching about Star Wars, and The Hunger Games even when the damn books says the character with Dark Brown skin.
I mean if its just inserting a black elf in the show just to meet a quota then sure its silly, but maybe the show explains it, maybe she plays the elf role really good who knows...its fiction at eh end of the day...who cares.
I care because like I said it breaks the coherence of the whole thing. I want to be immersed in one of my favorite fictional world with something that makes sense and that isn't about politics/diversity or whatever but it seems now we can't escape this it will be in all the upcoming shows.
quote:idk how do you want to take this seriously when you have nordic looking elves then suddenly this :
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
Its not like this black elf is going to ruin Tolkens work or anything, its probably going to be forgotten in a year or two and the next LOTR will have an all white cast again.
quote:in the case of vikings it's not the first time actually I mean come on they literally manage to put blacks in the most nordic and whitest civilization you can get lmao don't you find this weird ? They could have taken something less extreme like a south european or arab but no they only take blacks.
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: The Northmen movie as far as I know had an all white cast, and made Millions world wide, but people bitching about a sinle Jarl on a small screen TV show...yet no outcry about European cast Hebrews and Egyptians as recent as 2014 and 2016 on the Big Screen...
quote:True but you at least understand the deception and why it's tiresome to always end up with this results (they did the same thing with the witcher show). The way blacks are used in the western world is sad tbh they are treated like exotic objects used to fill their quotas or to be line with some ideologies they are only seen through their skin color.
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
[QB] You act like you have to watch this show to be immersed in the LOTR universe. I can't stand the Harry Potter movies and the people they cast as the characters, I saw like 20 minutes of the first movie and turned it off, Ive never watched or entertained any thing from HP except the books ever since.
If you dont like it just don't watch it...as far as I can tell the new LOTR project isn't even Cannon...
quote:
Originally posted by Antalas:
quote:True but you at least understand the deception and why it's tiresome to always end up with this results (they did the same thing with the witcher show). The way blacks are used in the western world is sad tbh they are treated like exotic objects used to fill their quotas or to be line with some ideologies they are only seen through their skin color.
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
[QB] You act like you have to watch this show to be immersed in the LOTR universe. I can't stand the Harry Potter movies and the people they cast as the characters, I saw like 20 minutes of the first movie and turned it off, Ive never watched or entertained any thing from HP except the books ever since.
If you dont like it just don't watch it...as far as I can tell the new LOTR project isn't even Cannon...
quote:I don't see it, maybe it's a regional thing.
Originally posted by Antalas:
quote:I'm talking in general : movies/series/Adds
Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-:
What Genre? Historical..??
Sorry but I don't see this fantasy of over saturation of blacks in Media, where is it?
Here we're more numerous than blacks yet we're never represented in any media even the movies based on true stories that involved north africans all of them got replaced by black actors. And without even exaggerating I think we've reached a point where you see more blacks/mulattoes on screen than whites especially in the advertisement field. I wouldn't care if we were at least also represented but now they even managed to do this with LOTR.
quote:Askia the vikings had Black inside them
Originally posted by Askia_The_Great:
Tbh us Black people have no damn business playing some Vikings. Let them have it. *shrugs*
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
quote:I care. We have no business playing no damn Vikings. Then worse Black Americans get the blame...
Originally posted by Thereal:
Why do you care? Supposedly you aren't white,it strange as non-white European you would care so much. Also,there are Black Arabs and Indians as dark as Africans and some quite comparable to Africans phenotypically. Lastly, East Asia is a region.
quote:French cave findings suggest Europe’s first Homo sapiens arrived earlier than thought
Our direct ancestors, Homo sapiens, may have ventured into Neanderthal territory in Europe much earlier than previously thought, according to an archaeological study published this week. Researchers also believe that Neanderthals and Homo sapiens may have alternately shared territory in southeastern France.
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The latest research, by a team of archaeologists and palaeoanthropologists led by Ludovic Slimak of Toulouse University, pushes the arrival time of Homo sapiens in western Europe to around 54,000 years ago.
quote:Genomes of the earliest Europeans - Max-Plank-Gesellschaft
An international research team has sequenced the genomes of the oldest securely dated modern humans in Europe who lived around 45,000 years ago in Bacho Kiro Cave, Bulgaria. By comparing their genomes to the genomes of people who lived later in Europe and in Asia the researchers from the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany, show that this early human group in Europe contributed genes to later people, particularly present-day East Asians. The researchers also identified large stretches of Neandertal DNA in the genomes of the Bacho Kiro Cave people, showing that they had Neandertal ancestors about five to seven generations back in their family histories. This suggests that mixture with Neandertals was the rule rather than the exception when the first modern humans arrived in Europe.
quote:Grimaldi man - Wikipedia
Grimaldi man is the name formerly given to two human skeletons of the Upper Paleolithic discovered in Italy in 1901. The remains are now recognized as representing two individuals, and are dated to ca. 26,000 to 22,000 years ago (i.e. c. 24000–20000 BC) and classified as part of the wider Early European modern humans population of the late Aurignacian to early Gravettian.
quote:there were no human remains found there, only flint tools
Originally posted by Archeopteryx:
The oldest European Homo sapiens, can be the one whose remains are found in Grotte Mandrin, in Southern France.
quote:Slimak, S et al, 2022: ´Modern human incursion into Neanderthal territories 54,000 years ago at Mandrin, France´
We determined that layer E, which contains the modern human fossil, dates to 56.8 ka to 51.7 ka cal. B.P. (95.4% prob.; see Materials and Methods; figs. S15 to S20 and tables S1 to S10), suggesting that this individual is substantially earlier than any previously documented modern human remains or potential transitional archeological assemblages in Europe, and penecontemporaneous with, if not older than, the Manot 1 calvaria from Israel (6).
quote:"Here come the race swap": Fans slam Nico Parker's casting as Astrid in new How to Train Your Dragon movie
"Here come the race swap": Fans slam Nico Parker's casting as Astrid in new How to Train Your Dragon movie
A How to Train Your Dragon live-action movie is currently at its earliest stages but The Hollywood Reporter has confirmed that the roles of Hiccup and Astrid are set to be played by Mason Thames and Nico Parker, respectively. The upcoming live-action film is based on the 2010 computer-animated action fantasy film of the same name, which in turn, was based on Cressida Cowell's 2003 novel.
Fans are overjoyed that the beloved 2010 film is getting a live-action adaptation but are skeptical of Nico Parker's casting, the reason for which is that the actor belongs to a slightly different race than the fictional Astrid Hofferson.
Nico Parker's parents are Ol Parker and Thandiwe Newton. OI is white, while Thandiwe is black. This means that Nico is biracial and shares traits of both African and Caucasian descent. However, her casting as a white female Viking in the upcoming How to Train Your Dragon did not bode well with fans, who have started accusing Hollywood of "blackwashing" once again.
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Some fans aren't really interested in watching a live-action adaptation of the animated film, but most complaints are regarding Nico Parker. One internet user, who was unhappy that black culture was being forced into the Scandinavian culture, even said that it wasn't that hard to find "a white actress with blue eyes."
quote:Black Viking
Gunnar Black Wolf, son of a Viking lord and a Moorish slave, grows up as one of the chosen of Odin and the companion of prince Harald Finehair. He returns home from fun and free-booting to find his adoptive parents, wife, and child dead, and vows vengeance against their slayer. In the course of this quest, he becomes outlawed and is driven to lead a mighty raid against the Franks.