posted
There aren't many African ethnic groups making these claims who could be the source population for Afro Americans. This obsession is crazy, even if they were black, they wouldn't have been the source population of Afro Americans. Some people have identity crisis.
Posts: 2616 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
Because of all the unique Biblical prophecies and events that line up perfectly with who we are -- not to mention all of the historical evidence. Black people didn't just wake up one day and say "hey let's be Jews because it looks cool." The Bible says the Israelites would remember themselves in the land of their captivities.
BARUCH 2:30
"30 For I knew that they would not hear me, because it is a stiffnecked people: but in the land of their captivities they shall remember themselves."
It's a spiritual thing as well, so if you aren't spiritual then you wouldn't understand any of it to begin with.
Regardless, if you're so convinced it isn't true then it shouldn't bother you. Way more important things going on in the black community to worry about right?
For instance; black people still voting in american elections after all this time, still thinking that the ruling class actually views them as legit "american" citizens, or that either of the two political parties will ever have their best interest in mind.
Posts: 2752 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: Because of all the unique Biblical prophecies and events that line up perfectly with who we are -- not to mention all of the historical evidence. Black people didn't just wake up one day and say "hey let's be Jews because it looks cool." The Bible says the Israelites would remember themselves in the land of their captivities.
BARUCH 2:30
"30 For I knew that they would not hear me, because it is a stiffnecked people: but in the land of their captivities they shall remember themselves."
It's a spiritual thing as well, so if you aren't spiritual then you wouldn't understand any of it to begin with.
Regardless, if you're so convinced it isn't true then it shouldn't bother you. Way more important things going on in the black community to worry about right?
For instance; black people still voting in american elections after all this time, still thinking that the ruling class actually views them as legit "american" citizens, or that either of the two political parties will ever have their best interest in mind.
That whole theory is BS, first and foremost, Black Americans do NOT represent a single lineage people, we are a blend of multiple African ethnic groups, the biblical Israelites were NOT. That ends it alone.
Posts: 2616 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
Anyone who claims that every single black american is an Israelite is crazy, of course there are lineages among us that are not apart of the majority. That's common sense.
But following that logic, jewish people also come from a variety of different lineages -- possibly even more lineages than african americans. Does this also "end it" for them as well? Are they having an identity crisis?
The thing about people like you is that you never fully examine your arguments or test them out in reverse before you apply them.
Posts: 2752 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: Anyone who claims that every single black american is an Israelite is crazy, of course there are lineages among us that are not apart of the majority. That's common sense.
But following that logic, jewish people also come from a variety of different lineages -- possibly even more lineages than african americans. Does this also "end it" for them as well? Are they having an identity crisis?
The thing about people like you is that you never fully examine your arguments or test them out in reverse before you apply them.
I don't believe modern Israelis are the same as the ancients, anyone who does is clearly lying
Posts: 2616 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: Anyone who claims that every single black american is an Israelite is crazy, of course there are lineages among us that are not apart of the majority. That's common sense.
But following that logic, jewish people also come from a variety of different lineages -- possibly even more lineages than african americans. Does this also "end it" for them as well? Are they having an identity crisis?
The thing about people like you is that you never fully examine your arguments or test them out in reverse before you apply them.
I don't believe modern Israelis are the same as the ancients, anyone who does is clearly lying
Mizrahi Jews in the country might be close, as would most Palestinian “Arabs”. I agree though that Ashkenazi Jews, even though they do have some Levantine ancestry, have received enough European admixture over the centuries that they wouldn’t look the same as ancient Hebrews.
posted
Because 1)black Americans had Judeo-Christianity forced on us by Euro-Americans and its become an important identifier...AAs were identifying with Biblical figures like Moses and the Israelites going back genrations... 2)Anything that White people like(respect) Hoteps put more stock in claiming( a good example is the Hotep obsession with the Moors but lack of interest in the Swahili who bacically did what the Moors did but on African soil) 3) Easier to pretend to be cursed or gods chosen people than to face reality, also it triggers a lot of people so Heebs can play the edge-lord and scream at people on street corners...etc.
quote:Originally posted by Elijah The Tishbite: There aren't many African ethnic groups making these claims who could be the source population for Afro Americans. This obsession is crazy, even if they were black, they wouldn't have been the source population of Afro Americans. Some people have identity crisis.
Posts: 8871 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
As far as I know(recall) most experts believe the closest Jews to the OG are folks like the Yemeni Jews, also Iraqi Jews I think...The Ashkenazi are mostly Converts even though some do have ties to the Levant...That said its not like conversion was all that bad, different peoples converted to Judaism and were accepted. Then there's folks like the Edomites/Samaratins that practiced a Moses based Monotheism despite the ethnic hated against them in the bible...
The Heeb mantra that white people are the Edomites is even more laughable considering the 1) Herodians were Edomites, and Edomites joined the Judaians in the Rebellion against Rome and were killed/enslaved along with the Jews...
quote:Originally posted by BrandonP:
quote:Originally posted by Elijah The Tishbite:
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: Anyone who claims that every single black american is an Israelite is crazy, of course there are lineages among us that are not apart of the majority. That's common sense.
But following that logic, jewish people also come from a variety of different lineages -- possibly even more lineages than african americans. Does this also "end it" for them as well? Are they having an identity crisis?
The thing about people like you is that you never fully examine your arguments or test them out in reverse before you apply them.
I don't believe modern Israelis are the same as the ancients, anyone who does is clearly lying
Mizrahi Jews in the country might be close, as would most Palestinian “Arabs”. I agree though that Ashkenazi Jews, even though they do have some Levantine ancestry, have received enough European admixture over the centuries that they wouldn’t look the same as ancient Hebrews.
Posts: 8871 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Because 1)black Americans had Judeo-Christianity forced on us by Euro-Americans and its become an important identifier
Uh... what are you talking about? Historical records from as early as 1714 record the fact that Judaism was the religion of ancient [west] "Africans" long before Christianity or the arrival of any europeans.
"Atlas Geographus: Or, A Compleat System of Geography, Ancient and Modern" page 39 (1714)
And a paper published by Cambridge University records the fact that black Jews in west africa were more likely to be captured and sold into the transatlantic slave trade.
"Blacks Jews: the religious challenge or politics versus religion" by Ulysses Santamaria, page 235 (1987) European Journal of Sociology, Cambridge University Press
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: The Heeb mantra that white people are the Edomites is even more laughable considering the 1) Herodians were Edomites
How is it a "Heeb mantra" when you just confirmed it and agreed with it? You do know that the herodians were what we would today consider to be white europeans right?....
This is a photo of Antipater the Idumaean (Idumaean is greek for edomite....), he was a greek from macedonia and the father of the herodian dynasty. You can also look up photos of statues of the herods to see that they too were also what we would consider to be white europeans today.
quote:Originally posted by Elijah The Tishbite: There aren't many African ethnic groups making these claims who could be the source population for Afro Americans. This obsession is crazy, even if they were black, they wouldn't have been the source population of Afro Americans. Some people have identity crisis.
True, but remember, long before there were 'Black Hebrew Israelites' there were British Hebrew Israelites with Anglo-Saxons claiming to be among the lost tribes of Israel in Europe. So you see it's not just Afro-Americans. There was even a small cult in Japan some decades ago making similar claims. It seems everyone wants to be 'the chosen people'. LOLPosts: 26810 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Elijah The Tishbite: There aren't many African ethnic groups making these claims who could be the source population for Afro Americans. This obsession is crazy, even if they were black, they wouldn't have been the source population of Afro Americans. Some people have identity crisis.
No one has identity issues. Its only some wacko fringe group. Not sure why it would represent all Black Americans. A fringe group of Igbos also believe they are the Jews. But no one is claiming Igbos as a whole have an identity crisis.
Every group has fringe circles.
Posts: 1930 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
| IP: Logged |
Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
Look at all the [west] african tribes and peoples who are "wacko fringe" and having an "identity crisis".
"Black Jews in Africa and the Americas" by Tudor Parfitt, page 11-12 (2013) Harvard University Press
Look at all the other historical evidence (even what I've shared in this thread) that links black americans to black Jews captured in west africa during the transatlantic slave trade, and the historical evidence that records "ancient" black west africans having Judaic culture since long before christianity and long before the arrival of europeans on the continent.
Maybe those who criticize do so because of a lack of knowledge and research on the topic? That's what I'd like to think at least, hopefully we are not being willfully ignorant. But those who choose to be willfully ignorant can feel free to do so...
We know we aren't crazy, and we actually laugh when people try to claim "BHI" is something crazy, random and new that started in america when undeniable and recorded history completely says otherwise.
Posts: 2752 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
| IP: Logged |
Look at all the other historical evidence (even what I've shared in this thread) that links black americans to black Jews captured in west africa during the transatlantic slave trade, and the historical evidence that records "ancient" black west africans having Judaic culture since long before christianity and long before the arrival of europeans on the continent.
Maybe those who criticize do so because of a lack of knowledge and research on the topic? That's what I'd like to think at least, hopefully we are not being willfully ignorant. But those who choose to be willfully ignorant can feel free to do so...
We know we aren't crazy, and we actually laugh when people try to claim "BHI" is something crazy, random and new that started in america when undeniable and recorded history completely says otherwise.
The lack of haplogroup J and any Middle Eastern ancestry refutes those fringe theories
Posts: 2616 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Elijah The Tishbite: There aren't many African ethnic groups making these claims who could be the source population for Afro Americans. This obsession is crazy, even if they were black, they wouldn't have been the source population of Afro Americans. Some people have identity crisis.
No one has identity issues. Its only some wacko fringe group. Not sure why it would represent all Black Americans. A fringe group of Igbos also believe they are the Jews. But no one is claiming Igbos as a whole have an identity crisis.
Every group has fringe circles.
The Hebrrw Israelites doesn't represent us all, thats true, but they're not the only fringe group, people calling themselves Hoteps, Moors, Nuwabian, Lost Tribe of Shabazz, and the newest one indigenous black native Americans, and that whole FBA/ADOS nonsense. It seems that a lot of people aren't happy being who they really are, though most of us aren't like that.
Posts: 2616 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
Elijah, how do you "debunk" recorded historical fact? Can you provide any exhaustive and comprehensive research on ancient Israelites that proves haplogroup J (or any other "middle eastern" haplogroup) is a 100% accurate representation of the entire ancient Israelite population as a whole?
Also; earlier in the thread you said you don't believe modern israelis are the same people as the ancient Israelites. Yet they have haplogroup J. Do you realize how problematic and contradictory your claims are?
Lastly -- since you don't believe the modern israelis are the same people as the ancient Israelites, does this mean you think they are having an identity crisis too? Or is it only an identity crisis when we are talking about black folk. This is a serious question BTW.
Posts: 2752 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: [QB] As far as I know(recall) most experts believe the closest Jews to the OG are folks like the Yemeni Jews, also Iraqi Jews I think...The Ashkenazi are mostly Converts even though some do have ties to the Levant...That said its not like conversion was all that bad, different peoples converted to Judaism and were accepted. Then there's folks like the Edomites/Samaratins that practiced a Moses based Monotheism despite the ethnic hated against them in the bible...
No, Yemeni Jews are not much different from Yemeni Muslims. The closest modern people to the ancient Jews are the Samaritans, Iraqi Jews, and Iranian Jews.
Here is an interesting video on the Samaritans, who are currently facing a decline due to a lack of women. As a result, they are mostly marrying Slavic women, particularly from Ukraine.
Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
quote:Originally posted by Sarapis: Here is an interesting video on the Samaritans, who are currently facing a decline due to a lack of women. As a result, they are mostly marrying Slavic women, particularly from Ukraine.
That's interesting, especially since the prophecies in the Hebrew Bible say that the Israelites would as plentiful as the sand of the sea, unable to be measured or numbered.
quote: HOSEA 1:10 (KJV)
"10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God."
I've yet to receive an answer but what are you guys basing your "XYZ is the closest to ancient Israelites" claims on? Are you aware of any exhaustive or comprehensive research on ancient Israelites that allows you to accurately link any modern populations to them beyond any reasonable doubt?
Posts: 2752 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
| IP: Logged |
posted
I agree, but If I recall the Yemeni Jews have the closest dialect to the ancients or something like that but yes, IMO the Samaratins are probably a good representation despite the ethnic hated against them in the bible, fact is the Samaratins/Hebrews have been shown to be from the same lineage...
quote:As of 2024, only one study has directly examined ancient Israelite genetic material. The analysis examined First Temple-era skeletal remains excavated in Abu Ghosh, and showed one male individual belonged to the J2 Y-DNA haplogroup, a set of closely-related DNA sequences thought to have originated in the Caucasus or Eastern Anatolia, as well as the T1a and H87 mitochondrial DNA haplogroups, the former of which has also been detected among Canaanites, and the latter in Basques, Tunisian Arabs, and Iraqis, suggesting a Mediterranean, Near Eastern, or perhaps Arabian origin.[171]
A 2004 study (by Shen et al.) comparing Samaritans to several Jewish populations (including Ashkenazi Jews, Iraqi Jews, Libyan Jews, Moroccan Jews, and Yemenite Jews) found that "the principal components analysis suggested a common ancestry of Samaritan and Jewish patrilineages
But I agree, despite dsperate Heeb screeching to the contrary....we have a whole host of non Ashkenazi Jewish tribes, esp. in places where we know a histical presence existed i.e Iraq/Iran....
quote:Originally posted by Sarapis:
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: [QB] As far as I know(recall) most experts believe the closest Jews to the OG are folks like the Yemeni Jews, also Iraqi Jews I think...The Ashkenazi are mostly Converts even though some do have ties to the Levant...That said its not like conversion was all that bad, different peoples converted to Judaism and were accepted. Then there's folks like the Edomites/Samaratins that practiced a Moses based Monotheism despite the ethnic hated against them in the bible...
No, Yemeni Jews are not much different from Yemeni Muslims. The closest modern people to the ancient Jews are the Samaritans, Iraqi Jews, and Iranian Jews.
Here is an interesting video on the Samaritans, who are currently facing a decline due to a lack of women. As a result, they are mostly marrying Slavic women, particularly from Ukraine.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: True but remember, long before there were 'Black Hebrew Israelites' there British Hebrew Israelites with Anglo-Saxons claiming to be among the lost tribes of Israel in Europe. So you see it's not just Afro-Americans. There was even a small cult in Japan some decades ago making similar claims. It seems everyone wants to be 'the chosen people'. LOL
It might be like how Christian artists around the world tend to portray Jesus and other Biblical figures as looking like their own people, regardless of historical reality. We envision God or the gods in our own image.
posted
Also the fact that there exists documented Jewish migrations and Immigrants who lived in West/Sahelian African states like Mali, which could easily explain Heeb quote mined propaganda...
quote:The Jewish history of Mali begins in the 8th century, when multi-lingual African-Jewish Radhanites first settled in Timbuktu in the Songhai Empire. These medieval merchants established a trading center in the city, from which a network of trading routes were created through the desert.
After 1492, more Jews arrived in Mali following the Expulsion of Jews from Spain. During the 14th and 15th centuries, Sephardi Jews settled in Timbuktu from Portugal and Spain. In 1492, Askia Muhammad I, the ruler of the Askiya dynasty of the Songhai Empire, threatened Jews with death if they refused to convert to Islam. While some Jews chose to convert to Islam, the majority fled. In 1526, the Berber Andalusi historian Leo Africanus described the ruler's persecution of the Jewish community: "The king (Askia) is a declared enemy of the Jews. He will not allow any to live in the city. If he hears it said that a Berber merchant frequents them or does business with them, he confiscates his goods."
Notice how all of these Jews were Sphardi Jews according to actual sources but they could have intermarried or even converted natives...
quote:Originally posted by Elijah The Tishbite: The lack of haplogroup J and any Middle Eastern ancestry refutes those fringe theories
Posts: 8871 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
@Jari,
Are you aware of the fact that the same study you referenced says they can't confirm the "Israelite" genetic material they examined represents the entire ancient Israelite population as a whole?
In other words... there are no exhaustive or comprehensive studies that claim to know the genetic composition of the ancient Israelites.
So again, how is posting an article about *one* genetic sample of a supposed Israelite without any supporting data supposed to prove anything?
......
Y'all call the "BHI" crazy and all kinds of other things but then you turn around and do pseudo things like this
Posts: 2752 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: ]Uh... what are you talking about? Historical records from as early as 1714 record the fact that Judaism was the religion of ancient [west] "Africans" long before Christianity or the arrival of any europeans.
"Atlas Geographus: Or, A Compleat System of Geography, Ancient and Modern" page 39 (1714)
Upper left of page, first indent says "Leo says" as regard "Judaism was the Religion of the - ancient Africans for a long Time " That refers of Leo Africanus from his 'A Geographical Historie of Africa' (1556), that is the primary source. The author says "Leo says" a lot in this book Africanus is talking about berbers as we can see from the end of the previous page 38 he is talking about the East of the Barbary At the top of 39, continuing from 38 the author is talking about Arabic language being spoken in the region. He says "we shall treat of the Blacks when we come to Guinea, Negroland, and the Cape of Good Hope, where they inhabit." He is saying he will speak of blacks later in the text when he gets to Guinea, Negroland, and the Cape of Good Hope.
The author continues
quote: "Leo says, there are other Kingdoms on the S. Frontiers of this Country which are inhabited by a rich, industrious, and just Sort of People. Judaism was the Religion of the - ancient Africans for a long Time and succeeded by Christianity ; but Mahometanism (Mohammadism) prevail'd in the 208th Year of the Hegyra (The Hijrah was the journey the Islamic prophet Muhammad and his followers took from Mecca to Medina) when all the Jews, Christians, and Professors of the African Religion that could be found,were put to Death ; yet in Process of Time their intestine Quarrels made them neglect Mahomet's Law, and revolt from the Caliph of Bagdad, for which they were feverely punish'd by the Mahometan Caliphs, who caus'd all their Books to be burnt, on Suspicion that the Knowledge of the Arts and Sciences prompted them to contemn Makomet's Law. The Africans on the Coast are still very gross Idolaters."
This is taking about North Africa, As for Timbuktu in Mali see the exact quote of Leo Africanus, he says very little
Possibly Radhanites come into play
The Radhanites
The Radhanites or Radanites (Hebrew: רדנים, romanized: Radanim; Arabic: الرذنية, romanized: ar-Raðaniyya) were early medieval Jewish merchants, active in the trade between Christendom and the Muslim world during roughly the 8th to the 10th centuries. Many trade routes previously established under the Roman Empire continued to function during that period, largely through their efforts. Their trade network covered much of Europe, North Africa, the Middle East, Central Asia, and parts of India and China.
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: red and sold into the transatlantic slave trade.
"Blacks Jews: the religious challenge or politics versus religion" by Ulysses Santamaria, page 235 (1987) European Journal of Sociology, Cambridge University Press
I could not find this Godbey quote in his Lost Tribes book or any primary source. The article here by Santamaria, I read the whole thing. There is a bibliography with plenty of books but not a reference for this alleged Godbey quote. Anyway at the end on the page it says "part Jewish Negroes" perhaps Lançados are being described:
The lançados (literally, the thrown out ones[1] or the cast out ones) were settlers and colonizers of Portuguese origin in Senegambia, Cabo Verde, Guinea, Sierra Leone, and other areas on the coast of West Africa. Many were Jews—often New Christians—escaping persecution from the Portuguese Inquisition.
Lançados often took African wives from local ruling families, thereby securing protection and trading ties that worked to the advantage of both sides. They established clandestine trading networks in weaponry, spices, and slaves. This black market angered the Portuguese Crown by disrupting its ability to collect taxes.
Although never large in numbers, the mixed-race children born to the lançados and their African wives and concubines served as crucial intermediaries between Europeans and native Africans. They were often bilingual and grew up in both cultures, sometimes working as interpreters with traders. These mixed-race people wielded significant power in the early development of port economies in Bissau, Cacheu, and surrounding areas.
The supposed Godbey quote says
quote: What traces of Judaism still remained among the Negroes of West Africa at that period? To the extent that they were persecuted they were more likely than other Negroes to be seized during wars and sold as slaves."
It doesn't exactly make sense to talk about "To the extent that they were persecuted" after asking " What traces of Judaism still remained among the Negroes of West Africa?"
If you are asking about what traces, you would have to find the traces (for instance, Hebrew writing in West Africa) first before speculating, that for being "part Jewish Negroes" they were more persecuted.
Posts: 43356 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
When I see haplogroup J I'll believe these fringe theories. There may have been some converts to Judaism via trade, but that wouldn't make these people the "original Jews," not even Lemba make that claim and they do have haplogroup J
Posts: 2616 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
quote:Originally posted by Elijah The Tishbite: When I see haplogroup J I'll believe these fringe theories. There may have been some converts to Judaism via trade, but that wouldn't make these people the "original Jews," not even Lemba make that claim and they do have haplogroup J
Can you please respond to the last comment I posted @ you?
Lyinass will not be addressed (for obvious reasons stated before) but mainly because he is ignoring the plain and clear reading of what the text(s) say and is trying to cause confusion because as he has thoroughly demonsrated over the years, he hates the idea of black people claiming to be Jews.
Whenever sources about black Jews come out, he's all of a sudden an expert on why the information" doesn't actually mean what it says "or why the information is "not credible".
I'm surprised it took him this long to jump in this thread and start twisting the sources I've been posting.
Posts: 2752 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
| IP: Logged |
Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
Actually I will address Lyinass just this one time, to demonstrate what a coping anti-black liar he is. Since this thread deals specifically with a topic I have done extensive research on, and since future readers may not be aware of the fact that Lyinass has already been exposed as a lying racist white man who been pretending to be a black woman and trolling this website for the last 10+ years. And that he has a strong disdain for black people who identify as Jews.
Lyinass claims the relevant portion on page 39 of this source isn't speaking about black Jews when it says "judaism was the religion of ancient africans for a long time".
The entire portion of page 39 is speaking about blacks or negroes. It literally says so at the top of the page. It literally informs the reader that the next topic is "blacks" or black people, and then it goes on to talk about them.
Here is the page again, for reference:
Lyinass is trying to separate black people in west africa from everything in red that says "Judaism was the reliigion of the ancient africans for a long time and succeeded by christianity..." and then it goes on to talk about how these black Jews in west africa were conquered by islamic muslims (mahometonism) who forced them to convert to islam and burnt all their books. According to Lyinass, this isn't talking about black people or black Jews in west africa -- he claims it's talking about non-blacks in north africa.
This is an easy lie to expose because other sources like the jewish virtual library website confirm that these things are indeed events that happened to Jews in west africa. It confirms that Jews in west africa were invaded by islamic muslims, forced to convert to islam, and their written texts were lost.
quote: The decline of the Jewish communities of West Africa can be traced to the arrival of Muslim invaders in the 14th and 15th centuries. North and West African Jews banded with other local communities of Berbers, Christians and Greeks to ward of the invaders, but eventually succumbed. Many were forced to convert to Islam sold into slavery or simply massacred. In the face of this persecution written traditions, such as the Torah, were lost.
Lyinass also claimed/asserted there was no Hebrew writing in west africa, that lie has also been debunked by this source. There are other sources that also speak about black Jews in west africa having a Torah -- even a Torah written in aramaic.
I could stop right there because the fact that Lyinass is a deceiving liar who insidiously targets black Jews has already been demonstrated. But I'll keep going.
Regarding the next source I posted, Lyinass claims the quote from the Cambridge source isn't in the primary source (The Lost Tribes a Myth, Godbey) but it definitely is and I'll wait to see if he again tries to claim it isn't before slapping him in the face with it. Also, if Lyinass is claiming that Cambridge university is falsely attributing writings to authors who did not write these things, that says more about Lyinass than it does about Cambridge. Doesn't it?
Regarding the second source, note how Lyinass tries to make it seem as though "part Jewish negroes" in the text is supposed to mean negroes who descended from lanćados (white jewish men) who impregnated black women. When what the author really means by "part Jewish negroes" is negroes who at least practiced Judaism to some extent, however minor that extent may have been. That passage says nothing at all about mixed descendants of lanćados or white jewish men who slept with black african women-- the title of the f*cking paper is "Blacks Jews...". Lyinass knows he is full of sh*t on this point, which is why he said the author is "perhaps" talking about lanćados. Like I said, he is here to lie and cause confusion when it comes to the topic of black Jews.
Posts: 2752 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: Actually I will address Lyinass just this one time, to demonstrate what a coping anti-black liar he is. Since this thread deals specifically with a topic I have done extensive research on, and since future readers may not be aware of the fact that Lyinass has already been exposed as a lying racist white man who been pretending to be a black woman and trolling this website for the last 10+ years. And that he has a strong disdain for black people who identify as Jews.
Lyinass claims the relevant portion on page 39 of this source isn't speaking about black Jews when it says "judaism was the religion of ancient africans for a long time".
The entire portion of page 39 is speaking about blacks or negroes. It literally says so at the top of the page. It literally informs the reader that the next topic is "blacks" or black people, and then it goes on to talk about them.
Here is the page again, for reference:
Lyinass is trying to separate black people in west africa from everything in red that says "Judaism was the reliigion of the ancient africans for a long time and succeeded by christianity..." and then it goes on to talk about how these black Jews in west africa were conquered by islamic muslims (mahometonism) who forced them to convert to islam and burnt all their books. According to Lyinass, this isn't talking about black people or black Jews in west africa -- he claims it's talking about non-blacks in north africa.
This is an easy lie to expose because other sources like the jewish virtual library website confirm that these things are indeed events that happened to Jews in west africa. It confirms that Jews in west africa were invaded by islamic muslims, forced to convert to islam, and their written texts were lost.
quote: The decline of the Jewish communities of West Africa can be traced to the arrival of Muslim invaders in the 14th and 15th centuries. North and West African Jews banded with other local communities of Berbers, Christians and Greeks to ward of the invaders, but eventually succumbed. Many were forced to convert to Islam sold into slavery or simply massacred. In the face of this persecution written traditions, such as the Torah, were lost.
Lyinass also claimed/asserted there was no Hebrew writing in west africa, that lie has also been debunked by this source. There are other sources that also speak about black Jews in west africa having a Torah -- even a Torah written in aramaic.
I could stop right there because the fact that Lyinass is a deceiving liar who insidiously targets black Jews has already been demonstrated. But I'll keep going.
Regarding the next source I posted, Lyinass claims the quote from the Cambridge source isn't in the primary source (The Lost Tribes a Myth, Godbey) but it definitely is and I'll wait to see if he again tries to claim it isn't before slapping him in the face with it. Also, if Lyinass is claiming that Cambridge university is falsely attributing writings to authors who did not write these things, that says more about Lyinass than it does about Cambridge. Doesn't it?
Regarding the second source, note how Lyinass tries to make it seem as though "part Jewish negroes" in the text is supposed to mean negroes who descended from lanćados (white jewish men) who impregnated black women. When what the author really means by "part Jewish negroes" is negroes who at least practiced Judaism to some extent, however minor that extent may have been. That passage says nothing at all about mixed descendants of lanćados or white jewish men who slept with black african women-- the title of the f*cking paper is "Blacks Jews...". Lyinass knows he is full of sh*t on this point, which is why he said the author is "perhaps" talking about lanćados. Like I said, he is here to lie and cause confusion when it comes to the topic of black Jews.
Your vague source doesn't prove anything, which people are the talking about?
Posts: 2616 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
@Elijah
If you can't determine any of that from reading the source, or even after all the additional info I've posted, then I don't know what else to tell you. It honestly sounds like a you problem.
I'm also still waiting for you to respond to what I asked you about the contradictory claims you've made in this thread. Please respond... I'm not going to repost the question(s), because I don't want you to play games and start accusing me of "trolling".
Posts: 2752 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
| IP: Logged |
If you can't determine any of that from reading the source, or even after all the additional info I've posted, then I don't know what else to tell you. It honestly sounds like a you problem.
I'm also still waiting for you to respond to what I asked you about the contradictory claims you've made in this thread. Please respond... I'm not going to repost the question(s), because I don't want you to play games and start accusing me of "trolling".
That "source" says 'ancient Africans' well who? Thats not saying anything. There may have been some converts from trade, but original black Jews/ Thats bs
Posts: 2616 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
Elijah, the source and the additional information I provided explains the exact location in Africa that is being spoken about. It says nothing about converts nor do you have anything to support the idea that ancient Israelites went all the way to west africa to convert indigenous black africans.
Now, earlier in the thread you said you don't believe modern israelis are the same people as the ancient Israelites.
Then, you said the lack of haplogroup J among blacks makes it impossible for blacks to be Israelites.
Yet, modern israelis have haplogroup J... but you admit they are not related to ancient Israelites. Do you not see how you are 100% contradicting yourself?
Posts: 2752 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: Elijah, the source and the additional information I provided explains the exact location in Africa that is being spoken about. It says nothing about converts nor do you have anything to support the idea that ancient Israelites went all the way to west africa to convert indigenous black africans.
Now, earlier in the thread you said you don't believe modern israelis are the same people as the ancient Israelites.
Then, you said the lack of haplogroup J among blacks makes it impossible for blacks to be Israelites.
Yet, modern israelis have haplogroup J... but you admit they are not related to ancient Israelites. Do you not see how you are 100% contradicting yourself?
modern Israelis and ancient Jews are two different peoples, come on, thats common knowledge
Posts: 2616 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
...but modern israelis have haplogroup J.
Posts: 2752 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: ...but modern israelis have haplogroup J.
Jews aren't the only ones with J, but J is high in Jews and men of Middle eastern descent. West Africans have virtually no Middle Eastern ancestry, where are you mystical ancient African original black Jews? smh
Posts: 2616 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
It's sad that you aren't intelligent enough to realize the fact that you've debunked your own faulty logic.
Posts: 2752 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: ...but modern israelis have haplogroup J.
So did ancient Israelites has was shown to you too many times in multiple threads, yet you seem to be in denial of this.
Posts: 26810 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
The paucity of aDNA from the Bronze Age Levant that shows substantial affinity with the African ancestry in modern African-Americans should have spelled doom for the BHI dogma a long time ago. Of course, sampling bias is always an issue with aDNA research, but consider the likelihood that early Israelites would have mixed with surrounding nations in the region. If African-Americans by and large really did descend from ancient Israelites, you'd think we would find a lot more genetic overlap between the Bronze Age Levantine samples we do have and African-American ones.
Not that any of this will change Taz's faith-based ideas about his ancestry. Religious faith, particularly as held by fanatics, tends not to be amenable to factual reality.
Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti:
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: ...but modern israelis have haplogroup J.
So did ancient Israelites has was shown to you too many times in multiple threads, yet you seem to be in denial of this.
...here we go again.
Elijah has just admit more than once that it's common knowledge modern israelis are not the same people as the ancient Israelites... yet you for some reason feel the need to engage me? Strange.
Doug explained ad nauseum how you (djehuti) were misrepresenting incomplete data to push a narrative.
Nobody seems to be able to answer this question, we all know the reason why... but for some reason a small minority of you on this website continue to misrepresent "genetic data" and babble on about the supposed "DNA" of the ancient Israelites:
quote: ...can you provide any exhaustive and comprehensive research on ancient Israelites that proves haplogroup J (or any other "middle eastern" haplogroup) is a 100% accurate representation of the entire ancient Israelite population as a whole?
Posts: 2752 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
| IP: Logged |
Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
quote:Originally posted by BrandonP:
Not that any of this will change Taz's faith-based ideas about his ancestry. Religious faith, particularly as held by fanatics, tends not to be amenable to factual reality.
This means literally nothing coming from an autistic, middle-aged caucasian man who is likely unemployed and spends 95% of his time fetishizing black people in his amateur artwork.
I subscribe to what the Bible says + historical records and archaelogy -- you, on the other hand, subscribe to incomplete and extremely limited "genetic data" that does not imply or conclude any of the definitive things that you erroneously assert it does.
Posts: 2752 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
| IP: Logged |
Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
^ Of course nobody is perfect but I'm doing pretty well. More importantly, I know my place and how to engage in respectful dialogue when I am not being intentionally provoked. Don't dish it out if you can't take it.
Posts: 2752 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: ^ Of course nobody is perfect but I'm doing pretty well. More importantly, I know my place and how to engage in respectful dialogue when I am not being intentionally provoked. Don't dish it out if you can't take it.
Then why don't you find us aDNA from the Bronze Age Levant that has enough affinity with modern African-American genomes that we can model its population as ancestral to African-Americans? Maybe ask Elmaestro or someone else who knows their way around aDNA software how you could compare African-American samples with Bronze Age Levantine ones.
Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
Brandon, even if I felt that were necessary:
Are there enough "aDNA samples" available to paint the entire genetic picture of the Israelites with 100% accuracy, and demonsrate beyond any reasonable doubt that any modern population(s) are directly related to the ancient Israelites?
Has there been any exhaustive and comprehensive research on "ancient Israelite DNA" that leaves no room for doubt or question?
If the answer is no, then literally nobody should be bringing up DNA in discussions about who is or isn't a descendant of ancient Israelites because DNA cannot prove it one way or the other.
Posts: 2752 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: Brandon, even if I felt that were necessary:
Are there enough "aDNA samples" available to paint the entire genetic picture of the Israelites with 100% accuracy, and demonsrate beyond any reasonable doubt that any modern population(s) are directly related to the ancient Israelites?
Has there been any exhaustive and comprehensive research on "ancient Israelite DNA" that leaves no room for doubt or question?
If the answer is no, then literally nobody should be bringing up DNA in discussions about who is or isn't a descendant of ancient Israelites because DNA cannot prove it one way or the other.
Sampling bias can be an issue with aDNA research. But even assuming that these ancient Israelite ancestors of modern African-Americans somehow represented a small enclave unrelated to other populations in the region (despite Biblical records of the Israelite and Judahite kingdoms covering a sizable chunk of modern Palestine during their heyday instead of just being some tiny isolated group), we can expect there would have been just enough gene flow between that enclave and their neighbors for African-American-like ancestry to turn up in the Levantine aDNA we do have. Now, I do think ancient Levantines had some African ancestry, and I don't doubt that some of it is "sub-Saharan" in origin (probably arriving there by way of Egypt and Nubia), but so far it doesn't appear to be the kind of African ancestry that African-Americans predominantly have (i.e. West African-related).
Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
So then, essentially, the answer to the question I posed to you is a "no".
Posts: 2752 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
| IP: Logged |
posted
Of course, we all know it's actually ancient Israelites who descend from African-Americans. Apparently, some Black nationalist peeps from Compton took a time machine, traveled to late Bronze Age Palestine, and established the kingdoms of Israel and Judah as well as writing the whole Bible and founding Judaism and Christianity. The BHI have had it backwards all along!
Me, I'm just pissed they didn't take a detour to the Mesozoic Era and photograph some dinosaurs for us all.
Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
The fact that you couldn't answer my simple yes/no question with a simple yes/no answer, and instead tried to sidestep by responding with a bunch of non-sequitir BS, speaks volumes.
And now that your pseudo logic has been dismantled, you are making jokes about black folk in compton. Poking fun at the black community appears to be a common hobby amongst certain non-black members of this forum, especially when it comes to whether or not black people are Jews/Israelites.
The idea of black people being Jews obviously boils the blood of certain individuals and brings out the worst in them.
With that being said, please refer back to my prior comment about you being a middle-aged, unemployed caucasian man with autism who spends 95% of his time fetishizing black people in his amateur artwork.
Posts: 2752 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
| IP: Logged |
posted
There's just no proof, black Americans descend from many different African groups, not a single lineage. People holding on to lies to feel good.
Posts: 2616 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
Elijah, what proof have you shared? All you've done in this thread is contradict yourself, and whenever I point it out and ask you to explain, you ignore it.
Posts: 2752 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: ...here we go again.
Elijah has just admit more than once that it's common knowledge modern israelis are not the same people as the ancient Israelites... yet you for some reason feel the need to engage me? Strange.
Doug explained ad nauseum how you (djehuti) were misrepresenting incomplete data to push a narrative.
Nobody seems to be able to answer this question, we all know the reason why... but for some reason a small minority of you on this website continue to misrepresent "genetic data" and babble on about the supposed "DNA" of the ancient Israelites:
quote: ...can you provide any exhaustive and comprehensive research on ancient Israelites that proves haplogroup J (or any other "middle eastern" haplogroup) is a 100% accurate representation of the entire ancient Israelite population as a whole?
LOL "Here we go again indeed". Elijah nor I nor anybody else for that matter said anything about modern Israelis being the same as ancient Israelites but that does not mean there there is no genetic connection at all. I've already shown you posts in other threads showing modern Israelis to share Y lineages like J with ancient Israelites and other Southwest Asians.
Not only Y lineages but also mitochondrial lineages as well as certain autosomal markers as well. And of course those Israelis closest to ancient Israelites were the Mizrahi Jews followed by Sephardic Jews and Ashkenazi being the most distant being intermediate between the other Jewish groups and Europeans of course.
Can you provide us similar evidence for Africans or African Americans showing such a relation??
Posts: 26810 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
^ Clearly has not been keeping up with this thread and the points that have been made.
For any future readers, please take note of how:
1) I've asked several times for someone to provide an example of exhaustive and comprehensive research that shows ancient Israelites had XYZ haplogroup and that XYZ haplogroup is said to represent the entire ancient Israelite population as a whole beyond any reasonable doubt.
(They won't and can't provide this evidence because it does not exist and they are fully aware of this...)
2) Nobody has provided such evidence, yet they will continue to make appeals to "ancient Israelite" DNA without citing exhaustive and comprehensive research that supports their opinion(s).
3) Even some of the most notable jewish organizations acknowledge the fact that genetic testing cannot determine who is a Jew.
quote: "As mentioned, Jewish identity follows the maternal line. If your mother is Jewish, you’re Jewish. However, there is no such thing as a “Jewish gene,” so genetic testing cannot conclusively state whether a person is Jewish."
Sometimes, I think the people on this site who make these silly arguments are simply bored and have nothing better to do with their time.
Posts: 2752 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic