posted
hi..i know this topic was discussed before but i cant find it here anymore.i would need help about papers which are needed for marriage in the ministry of justice in cairo.i heard also i need paper if i was judged(is this true?) and one to prove my religion (i am christian and my fiance as well).can anybody tell me how to get this??is it enough to bring translated letter from my priest?i know some of you might tell me to ask my embassy that they will give me proper information but i already tried to ask my embassy but those people there dont care for it and said it is not their business and i should look for information by myself.and also i have problem about paper of no impediment (i dont know if this is correct).problem is that we have been "married" by orfi for longer time now but now we want to make it in cairo so it is legal in my country as well.but office which issues this paper in my country knows about this orfi we have and they demand that it is marriage there and i have to legalize this orfi we have.i tried to explain them that it is not a real marriage but they said they wont issue that paper for me anymore because they consider it as marriage..so they only gave me paper from the evidence of people in my town where is written my marital status in my country-single..i wonder if this paper will be enough for egyptian authorities.thanks for all replies
Posts: 7 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Lissa you need to say which country you are from. Each Embassy has slightly different requirements. You may then find someone here who has experience of your particular Embassy and can help you.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Dear Exactly as Penny told you , we must know what is your Nationality first of all , then you should totally forget about this Orfi !! it's just a contract of marriage which is not valid for any country but egypt , it must be legalized , so the first step for legalization is to forget what is not ligalized , Orfi , then surely you will find a site for your foeign ministry and an issue about marriage and what is required for it , about your man he must make 1- a valid Passport ou carte de sejour 2- Extrait d'act de Naissance ( cetificate of Birth ) + ( ÞíÏ ÚÇÆáí ÝÑÏí ( it's a paper he makes in some adminstration ( Segel madany ) that explains that he has never been married or he is or he was married , if he was ) 3- a declaration to declare that he has never been married . 4- a medical certificate or a test that explains that he is unpatient of some illnesses they avoid . 5- Justification of domicile ( like the bill of telephone , or bill of electricity usage ( if he has some of that to his Name , is he hasn't so to his father's name . 6- Translation of these papers into your countries language , By a legalized office for translation , he can ask in your consulate for these legalized Offices . about what you should do i don't know exactly ! but Contact your Consulate or Forigen Ministery , the Embassy Doesn't care surely Becuase they have Right ! that is not theit Bussiness , CONSULATE . Wish you Good luck But if you'r French , You'll be Unfortunate ! BORING PEOPLE !!! you will never Imagine how are they !
Posts: 43 | From: HURGHADA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
thank you both for replies..i am from slovakia but i dont want to make marriage in my country, i want it in egypt so i wanted to know what papers do i have to bring with me because i already gave up all hopes of bringing him here...and about that orfi..i know it is absolutely nothing but a paper but people in slovak office in my town demand that i stamp that orfi in ministry of foreign affairs in egypt and in slovak embassy there so it can be made legal in slovakia as well.i tried many times to explain what orfi is (nothing) but they just ignore it.but even if i stamp that orfi in cairo (i heard there can be something like that but it still will be legal in egypt only and not in other countries)they wont make it legal in my country...or at least i think..and that woman consider me as married and because of that she said she will never let me marry again as long as i am not divorced from this orfi or as long as i dont prove it is nothing (i wonder how) and problem is also that i already contacted my ministry of foreign affairs which is dealing with these causes..it was the first thing i did but they told me to contact slovak embassy in egypt,so i contacted them but they told me to contact egyptian embassy here in slovakia..i did as well and they said i should ask in egypt but again thank you penny and lifetimeenjoy
Posts: 7 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Gosh Lissa what a problem. I think the only place you are going to be able to solve it is in to visit your Slovakian Embassy in Cairo. They should at least understand the ORFI situation and they are the only one's who can give you the necessary clearances to marry properly in Egypt. If you take all the documents Lifetimejoy listed you should have evrything they need to assist you.
It really does sound like one of those situations where doing it in person is the only way.
posted
thank you penny,well i think it will be the only way..but it means i have to go twice to egypt because they told me that they wont issue any paper for me, they will just legalize those i bring from slovakia so i think i will have to go there to ask them for some letter for slovak authorities that orfi is nothing, then come back,show it in slovakia, get all documents and then back again to egypt to make marriage...sounds really bad to me my fiance called them and asked about that orfi problem already but they told him i have to solve it by myself with this office in my town..but i believe they will be dealing with me in another way if i come there personally..or at least i hope.thank you for advice i will see what comes out of this.. Posts: 7 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
1) tell in your town that you only need paper to prove you have not had any marriage ceremony in your country. Other countries not considered. Let them word it like that, I'm sure they wil agree then, Probably the poor old woman in that office in your local town just does not know ANYTHING about these things and is afraid of responsibility in case she gives you a paper which is not completely true. Find a wording she is safe with.
2) Go to court against the woman. You have legislation in your contry to support you, and it does not cost anything, in a simple case like that you can represent yourself I am sure.
3) Take a paper from a lawyer in your country who happens to be a better educated person and who will write for this woman, why she according to the laws of YOUR country should give you the paper that you ask for.
4) Have your fiance get a paper in HIS country, something where they say that "this Orfi between this and thad has been concluded and does not exist any more". Sure the lawyers in Egy can understand. And have him legalize it, of course. Then get paper in your country, then marry. I wonder how many times you'll need to translate said paper then though, to get it from arab into your language all officially, by a proven translator :-O.
5) Change citizenship. I think it is high time we reorganise the worl not according to nationalities but according to people's IQ or their favourite rock group or something. Would be so much easier for everyone.
quote:Originally posted by nevermind: And maybe this link here can help you. What type of cohabitation is not covered by the Dutch probably does not exist in the world (meant as compliment here) :-) http://www.hollandemb.org.eg/Consular/En/MarriageDivorce.htm
Why is there information on marriage in holland and the only other nation in context is Egypt?
Why is this so common?
Posts: 5744 | From: Minneapolis, Mn USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by sonomod: Why is there information on marriage in holland and the only other nation in context is Egypt?
Why is this so common?
Have no idea, sono, if u ask me, but my best guess would be. 1) mutual sympathy of nations? :D 2) opposites attract (from total restriction vs total freedom, yes?)
posted
thank you nevermind.the idea with court is good one but wont help for me.i would simply never do it..that woman in the office is my family member.i cant go against her.i know sound strange that family would do this to me but what else can i do.and having word with her wont help..me and even my family tried many times already.she is like a stone and even gets angry when we talk about this but hey you mentioned something about the paper that i am not married here...i mean she doesnt want to issue for me the paper that there is no leagal obstacle for me to marry (i dont know how to explain that one in english) but she gave me paper from evidence of people where is my permanent address and marital status-single.you mean this could be enough????if yes then there would be no problem at all..and if not i will see lawyer in my country.thanks i didnt think about this one before
Posts: 7 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Never mind and I'm just offering you my imagination :) have no idea how valid my advice is legally. One more consideration is: isn't it the city/locality where you live AT THE MOMENT of when you need the certificate that is supposed to give you the certificate? Then simply go register yourself or whatever you need to do according to your law, in another city or locality, and then ask the paper from them. Just go around bueraucracy (or warm consideration from a deeply caring relative :).
What wording will be good enough to accept for the Egyptian side probably only they know, but since all documents differ a lot, plus you will be presenting TRANSLATIONS to them, you can just tell them that well, this IS the document they require, in your country style. They may have seen some befoe, but you can than say rules have changed since or something. You are a fast-developing country, after all :). From what I know about bueraucracy, it is much more important that the document (original) look as impressive as possible, so maybe even go to central office of your country and ask the certificate from them? and if they ask why not in your home town then say "because you know they are so difficult there in Egypt and I want it be impressive" create a together-feeling with this people that you and them are somehow better than the people "there", so instead of fighting against you they choose to fight with you against "them". I hope the egys at ES understand its just us all fighting mutual multilateral bueraucracy :) not "them".
In my country (and this is one more small achievement I'd say) we have at least arrivet at the point wher more and more government offices are turne dinto simple service centres. You walk in anywhere, the most convenient location for YOU and not them (if do not want an internet transaction, electronically signed, which is even a better weapon against bueraucrats in person) and simply ask for the paper you need, and they search the required central registers and issue it to you. Not you running after them but they coming closer to you.
You will only cherich more what you have had to fight for, girl :)
posted
hey that was really great...i was never thinking this way but it gives some logics..you really gave me some hope.i will try as soon as possible and after i get that paper and make marriage i will take it to that woman and stab it into her eye.again thank you and also all the others who tried to help.i will tell you later if this worked or not Posts: 7 | Registered: Nov 2004
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1) Either To Legalize the "Orfi" Contract Which Is Very Easy. You Give The Contract To Any Lawyer In cairo & He Files A Suit Called "Acknowledging Marriage & Signature". It Takes Around 1 Month & afterwards Your "Orfi" Contract Becomes Official & Is Treated Like One & You Can Legalize In Your Embassy & Also Translate It.
2) Or You Bring The Certificate From Your Country That You're Single,& The Kind Of Your Religion & If You Want That You Don't Have Any Criminal Record. With This Paper You Can Marry Officially again Without Any Regard To The "Orfi" Contract. It Means That The "Orfi" Contract Won't Stop You From Getting Married Again If You Have This Paper Because Egyptian Authorities Don't Accept the "Orfi" Contract Except When It's Made Official As i Told You Above.
I Think It'll be Easier For You To Legalize The "Orfi" Contract As In No.1 As Most Of The Foreigners Getting Married With Egyptians Are Doing So Because It's Difficult For Them To Get The Papers From Their Countries As In Your Case.
posted
hi..thanks for information..but i read somewhere that stamping orfi and registering it will make it legal only in egypt and not in other countries.im not sure.i think lady with name akshar has something like that and she wrote that it is not valid in her country.i want it to be valid here in slovakia as well so i wonder how it can be without showing any papers?like i could be already married in slovakia..how would they know if i am not, without papers?but maybe you know something more and if it worked that way as you said it would be great help.can you tell me from where you have this information?thanks
Posts: 7 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Lissa: hi..thanks for information..but i read somewhere that stamping orfi and registering it will make it legal only in egypt and not in other countries.im not sure.i think lady with name akshar has something like that and she wrote that it is not valid in her country.i want it to be valid here in slovakia as well so i wonder how it can be without showing any papers?like i could be already married in slovakia..how would they know if i am not, without papers?but maybe you know something more and if it worked that way as you said it would be great help.can you tell me from where you have this information?thanks
The reason why they get an Orfi marriage is to make sure that their significant others can't get to their funds in what ever homecountry in a divorce.
Plus its been posted that it keeps the significant other from emigrating to their home country. And for tax reasons. Egyptian significant others cannot claim to be a beneficary on a will. And that they can remarry in their home country.
The stamp on the Orfi papers just signifies that their residency is based on Orfi, in addition to making sure the woman doesn't marry twice in Egypt. Plus if the woman passes away or relinguishes her property (doesn't return to egypt) the Egyptian significant other can confiscate it. And if her relatives litigate to obtain her property at least then her Egyptian significant other has a legal leg to stand on. Plus if he does divorce her (rip up the Orfi paper) with it registered he can litigate for his share of the property, but that's only if its registered with the Egyptian authorities.
The only reason the government partially legalized it was so women could get divorces and then properly marry. College girls do this and divorced women, later when they manage to snag a live one then they can divorce their Orfi significant others.
In theory if an Orfi marriage produced children, they woman would have to be extremely diligent in order to have her child properly registered (birth certificate) and to recieve child support.
Posts: 5744 | From: Minneapolis, Mn USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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my fiance called them and asked about that orfi problem already but they told him i have to solve it by myself with this office in my town..but i believe they will be dealing with me in another way if i come there personally..or at least i hope.thank you for advice i will see what comes out of this..
but hey you mentioned something about the paper that i am not married here...i mean she doesnt want to issue for me the paper that there is no leagal obstacle for me to marry (i dont know how to explain that one in english) but she gave me paper from evidence of people where is my permanent address and marital status-single.you mean this could be enough????if yes then there would be no problem at all..and if not i will see lawyer in my country.thanks i didnt think about this one before
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