Al-Masry Al-Youm has uncovered one of the most serious cases secretly been investigated by the Egyptian authorities for some two months.
The authorities wanted to keep the case – expected to be announced in the coming days – secret till it found out the parties involved, as the crimes are committed by several Egyptian and foreign bodies and persons.
Al-Masry Al-Youm had previously received information about the case, but it preferred to check its authenticity while the investigations were being conducted in complete secrecy at Public Prosecutor Abdel Mahmoud's office to ensure that no information would be leaked to the media.
The daily learnt that a gang of brokers and doctors used to buy newborn illegitimate babies from their mothers and sell them to sterile American families. These families gave the babies the US citizenship and took them to the United States, alleging they had given birth to them in Egypt.
Al-Masry Al-Youm took a month to check the authenticity of the information it had obtained. The story started when the US embassy in Cairo filed a report to Qasr al-Nile Police Station saying that an Egyptian-American woman wanted to issue passports for two newborns, a boy and a girl. She claimed she had given birth to them in Cairo.
After that, a police force went to the embassy and arrested the woman, who admitted she had bought the two babies from two brokers, a man and a woman.
It later emerged that the gang was composed of two gynecologists, an accountant in a bank and an orphanage supervisor.
The defendants admitted they had bought the illegitimate newborns from their mothers and sold them to US families (LE 8,000 for the girl and LE 14,000 for the boy).
After that, these families registered those babies at the U.S. embassy in Cairo claiming they had been born in Egypt, seeking US passports for them and then taking them to the United States.
The gang had guides looking for girls and women who became illegitimately pregnant and wanted to get rid of their babies. Those mothers sold their babies without their knowing anything about the new family or the place where their babies would live in.
Days after the arrest of the first US family, other two families went to the US Embassy in Cairo to get passports for other children and when they were arrested they admitted they had got the babies in the same way.
The Public Prosecution is expected to refer the case to the Criminal Court within the coming few days, Al-Masry Al-Youm learnt.
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Tiger in the same Issue , they have arrested an egyptian man in Hurgadah ( husband of German woman) for killing a pharmaciest over the price of some illegla drugs) what is worng with german women in hurgadah these days? are they encouraging egyptian men for drugs , remeber the one last week been arested over cocaine! http://www.almasry-alyoum.com/article2.aspx?ArticleID=194963&IssueID=1287Posts: 1373 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2004
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Seriously Mo I can't tell you what's wrong with the German women these days. They seem to be all too naive and believe in bubbly love stories to hook up with Egyptian gigolos and criminals!! Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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are you sure it is not the german women who are turning the egyptian men to be criminals? loll
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Tiger look at this . it is in Arabic by the way ,, the case is very sensitive ,, all the arrested names are Christian names( except one), and the orphanage is a Christian one ,,and it seems the accused ones were buying both Muslim and christian babiesto sell them to American citizens and give them Christian names.. it is more serious matter than I thought before: http://www.algomhuria.net.eg/algomhuria/today/accedents/detail03.aspPosts: 1373 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2004
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I kinda don't understand how something like this can happen. I am very glad that US authorities informed the Egyptian police. Seriously the US government is not easy to fool.
I would like to get info on how many children actually made it inside the US in this kind of way? And what's the name of the accused orphanage and where is it located?
What an unbelievable story!!
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well the main concern here is not who informed who .. the main concern here that would cause a lot of anger toward the christians in egypt, more than 15 christian person involved in this crime ,, and sure most of the kidnapped sold babies are muslim ones .if this case happen in another day ( not when gaza issue around ) then that could cause a lot of problems
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Tiger you need to translate this long Intersting article ,, sorry no link avaliable as it wil take you to the whole site only: السيدة القبطية التي تحمل الجنسية الامريكية ايريس نبيل عبد المسيح كانت مراقبة من قبل السفارة الامريكية والمباحث المصرية كانت تشك بممارسات مستشفى الاندلس
كادت اخبار فضيحة العصابة القبطية التي تتاجر بأبناء الزنى تطغى حتى على اخبار غزة في وسائل الاعلام المصرية لناحية غرابة هذه الفضيحة عن المجتمع المصري المحافظ ولتورط اطباء وممرضات اقباط فيها ولورود اسم ابنة القس متى جرجس كمتورطة هاربة تبحث عنها الشرطة المصرية ويعتقد انها لجأت الى احد الاديرة في صعيد مصر حيث لم يتبين هروبها خارج البلاد وركزت الصحف المصرية على اكثر من نقطة في هذه الفضيحة اولها وجود علاقة ( تسويق ) للاطفال ( ابناء الزنى ) بين العصابة في القاهرة وبعض اقباط المهجر وتبين ان الامريكية القبطية المعتقلة ايزيس نبيل عبد المسيح كانت قيد المراقبة حتى من قبل السفارة الامريكية نفسها التي قامت بالاتصال بالسلطات المصرية والابلاغ عن الجريمة وتبين ايضا ان مستشفى الاندلس الذي كانت تتم فيه عمليات الولادة والبيع كان ممنوعا من مزاولة المهنة بأمر من وزارة الصحة لعدم توافر الحد الادنى من الشروط الصحية فيه ولتوظيف المستشفى بنات شبه اميات على انهن ممرضات وقد صدرت عدة قرارات اغلاق بالشمع الاحمر للمستشفى كانت ادارته تتحايل عليها وتمارس نشاطها في السر
ووفقا لما نشر فان التشكيل العصابي كان معروفا لدى المومسات وكان يعرض عليهن الحمل والانجاب في المستشفى دون تكاليف في مقابل الدفع لهن اثمان المواليد ويتم الان التحقيق مع الامريكية القبطية ايريس نبيل عبد المسيح بمعرفة السفارة الامريكية لمعرفة الجهات التي ترتبط بها في امريكا وهل كانت هذه العملية بغرض الاتجار بالطفلين بعد ادخالهما بجوازات امريكية الى امريكا ثم بيعهما بمبالغ هائلة قد تصل الى ربع مليون دولار للطفل الواحد ( الذي اشترته ايريس بالف وستمائة دولار فقط ) ... وتؤكد مصادر صحفية مصرية مطلعة ان قيام السفارة الامريكية بالابلاغ عن مواطنة امريكية للسلطات المحلية في مصر من حملةالجنسية المزدوجة تعد سابقة وان عملية الابلاغ تؤكد ان السلطات الامريكية كانت تشتبه بنشاط المذكورة وارادت من الابلاغ التوصل الى الرؤوس الكبيرة في العصابة سواء في مصر او في امريكا لان اعتقال المذكورة في امريكا كان سيصعب على اجهزة التحقيق الامريكية اثبات الواقعة وكشف اسرار العصابة
وهذا هو التعاون الثاني بين السفارة الامريكية في القاهرة والسلطات المصرية ضد اقباط يحملون الجنسيتين ويرتكبون جرائم من هذا النوع بينها جرائم غسيل اموال عبر البنوك المصرية يقوم بها اقباط يحملون الجنسية المزدوجة .... وكانت السفارة الامريكية قد دخلت في اول مواجهة مع الاقباط الامريكيين في ديسمبر عام 2005 حين نفى القنصل الأمريكي العام بالسفارة الأمريكية بالقاهرة تعرض الأقباط في مصر لأي نوع من التمييز كما تزعم منظمات أقباط المهجر في الخارج وقال القنصل الامريكي كاستنر انذاك إن منظمات أقباط المهجر في الولايات المتحدة اعتادت الزعم بوجود حالات تمييز عنصري في مصر ضد المسيحيين مؤكدا أن هذه ادعاءات كاذبة ولا يوجد أي شكل من أشكال التمييز العنصري في مصر ضد الأقباط
وكان اقباط المهجر قد استغلوا اعتداءات سبتمبر لاتهام مواطنين مصريين مسلمين في امريكا بالانتماء الى منظمات ارهابية وتم استغلال حادثة قتل عائلة قبطية في مدينة جيرسي ( منطقة نيويورك ) للاساءة الى جميع مسلمي امريكا الى ان كشفت المباحث الامريكية ان القاتل امريكي مسيحي كان على صلة باحدى بنات العائلة المصرية وكان جارا لها ولا علاقة للمسلمين بالجريمة من قريب او من بعيد ...
واتهمت «منظمة الأقباط الأميركيين» المسلمين بارتكاب الجريمة ورددت اشاعات تقول إن الجريمة يقف وراءها مسلمون مغتاظون من التوجه الديني للأسرة، وقالوا إن الأسرة وخصوصا الابنة الكبرى، قد طعنت في الصليب المرسوم على يدها. لكن رئيس نيابة جيرسي ومنطقة هدسن كاونتي التي حدثت فيها الجريمة، اداورد جيه دي فاتسيو قال في حديث مطول نشرته جريدة الشرق الاوسط والصحف الامريكية «إن نتائج التشريح أثبت أن الفتاة واسمها سيلفيا لم تطعن في موضع الصليب بالمرة، كما أن أيا من الرسومات للصلبان على أيدي أعضاء الأسرة الآخرين لم تمس». وكان موقع «كوبتس دوت كوم» التابع «لجمعية الأقباط الأميركيين»، قد ادعى أيضا أن القتلى تم ذبحهم بشكل يشبه الطقوس الدينية. ووفق التشريح فإن أيا منهم لم يذبح، وإنما تلقوا طعنات في الرأس والصدر والرقبة، وإن كان التقرير قد قال إنهم ضربوا بضراوة وقوة واعلنت الشرطة لاحقا انها القت القبض على القاتل الامريكي الذي اعترف بجريمته
وتبين ان القاتل اسمه إدوارد ماكدونالد(25عامًا) وشاركه في الجريمة هاملتون سانشيز (30عامًا) وقام الاثنان بقتل العائلة المصرية بقصد السرقة وأظهرت التحقيقات أن إدوارد يستأجر شقة علوية فوق شقة المجني عليهم ( عائلة ارمانيوس المصرية القبطية ) وسبق ان اتهم بجرائم مختلفة. وحاول ماكدونالد أن يسرق بعض المجوهرات والأجهزة من داخل مسكن أرمانيوس أثناء غيابهم عن المنزل، إلا أن الطفلة مونيكا (8 أعوام) استيقظت أثناء تسلله إلى الشقة، وتعرفت على هويته مما جعله يستعين بصديقه هاملتون ويتربص ببقية افراد العائلة ويتخلص منها قبل أن يكتشف أمره.... والعجيب ان الاقباط لم يعتذروا للمسلمين بعد ان تبين انه لا علاقة لهم بهذه الجريمة
ولجا بعض اقباط المهجر الى ممارسة ضغوط على السفارة الامريكية في القاهرة من خلال نشر مقالات واعلانات في صحف امركية تزعم ان تنظيم القاعدة اصبح يدير العمل في السفارة الامريكية في القاهرة وانه يضيق على الاقباط ... ورد القنصل الامريكي في حينه ان هذا كذب وافتراء وأكد أنه لا صحة مطلقا لما ردده الاقباط حول خضوع 25 من موظفي السفارة من المصريين لتحريات مكتب التحقيقات الفيدرالي الامريكي «آي اف بي» وقال إن ما نشرته صحيفة «نيويورك بوست» الأمريكية حول قيام 20 من أعوان ابن لادن من موظفي السفارة في القاهرة بتعليق صور لقيادات تنظيم حماس وصور ابن لادن على مكاتبهم غير صحيح، ونفى أيضا أن يكون هؤلاء الموظفون المصريون منعوا إصدار تأشيرات دخول الولايات المتحدة لآلاف من الأقباط المصريين وهو ما روجت له جمعيات قبطية في امريكا على سبيل ابتزاز السفارة الامريكية في القاهرة
وكانت صحيفة (نيويورك تايمز) الأمريكية نشرت انذاك تقريرا من القاهرة قالت فيه إن السفارة الأمريكية بالقاهرة فتحت على غير العادة أبوابها لعدد من الصحافيين للتأكد بأنفسهم من عدم وجود أي صور لقيادات تنظيم حماس أو صور لأسامة ابن لادن على مكاتب موظفي السفارة من المصريين وأن الصحافيين لم يشاهدوا إلا صور البابا شنودة الثالث وصور سانتا كلوز على مكاتب موظفي السفارة من الأقباط المصريين بمناسبة أعياد الميلاد كما تأكدوا من أن عمليات منح التأشيرات للأقباط تسير دون أي معوقات وتصادف وجود أوراق إنهاء تأشيرات 25 قبطيا وكانت «نيويورك بوست» نشرت ادعاءات لاقباط المهجر حول عرقلة الموظفين المسلمين منح التأشيرات للمواطنين المسيحيين وهو ما اعتبره المراقبون استمرارا للحملة ضد المسلمين ومحاولة لحمل السفارة على الاستغناء عن 20 موظفا مصريا مسلما يعملون بها اضافة إلى حملتهم الدائمة لبث الأكاذيب عن الأوضاع السياسية والاجتماعية والأمنية في مصر
مصادر صحفية مصرية تؤكد ان هناك مفاجات اخرى سيتم الاعلان عنها وتتعلق بجرائم تهرب ضريبي وغسيل اموال وتهريب للاثار تورطت بها عناصر قبطية تحمل الجنسية الامريكية واشارت هذه المصادر الى ان التحقيقات في حادثة قتيل محل الجواهر في مصر الجديدة العام الماضي قادت الى خيوط تشير الى تورط التاجر بتجارة الاثار ... وكان الاقباط قد روجوا ان القتل تم بأيدي مسلمين وهو ما نفته السلطات المصرية في حينه حيث تبين ان مافيا الاثار تقف وراء الجريمة
فضيحة بيع ابناء الزنى جاءت في وقت حول فيه بعض اقباط المهجر اهتماماتهم ونشاطاتهم من الهجوم على النظام المصري ( الوهابي ) كما يصفونه الى الهجوم على الشعب الفلسطيني والاعلان عن مساندة اسرائيل ضد الارهابيين الغزاويين ... كما كشفت هذه الفضيحة النقاب عما تردد سابقا من وجود تعاون امني رفيع المستوى بين السلطات الامريكية والسلطات المصرية حول جرائم ترتكبها عناصر مصرية قبطية من حملة الجنسية المزدوجة وتنشط السفارة الامريكية في القاهرة بدورها لكشف هذه الجرائم من خلال متابعة الحسابات البنكية للاقباط المصريين من حملة الاسمين .. والجنسيتين
ملحوظة : الصورة لافراد العائلة القبطية التي قتلت في جيرسي من قبل جار العائلة الامريكي ومع ذلك لا زال ( بعض ) الاقباط يتهم المسلمين بالجريمة توظيفا لاغراض سياسية تسعى بعض الجهات القبطية في امريكا الى تحقيقها في اطار صراعها مع النظام المصري الذي تتهمه بممارسة الاضطهاد ضدها
Posts: 1373 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2004
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U.S. couple held in Egypt dreamed of children Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:01pm GMT
By Cynthia Johnston
CAIRO (Reuters) - A U.S. couple held in Egypt on charges of buying two newborn babies -- a boy and a girl -- had long suffered from infertility and dreamed of children who would share their mother's Egyptian heritage, a family member said.
The couple, Louis Andros and Iris Botros, travelled to Egypt last year to adopt the infants and bring them to their home in North Carolina, where they own a Greek restaurant.
They did not realise there was no legal way for them to adopt in Egypt, the family member said.
"They were so happy. They were crazy happy," Shawn Botros, Iris's brother, told Reuters in a telephone interview.
"Somebody called them from Egypt ... and said, 'We found kids for you to adopt'. She (Iris) went to Egypt. She didn't do any research.
"She is the type of person who does not think ahead of the situation ... They called me from Egypt, they were so happy. They got the kids. The kids were beautiful."
The couple named the children Alexander and Victoria, and Louis referred to the baby girl as his "little princess".
Then everything changed.
The couple was arrested and jailed in Egypt, charged with buying the children and obtaining forged birth certificates.
Their lawyer, Sameh Ahmed Saleh, said the pair had been in contact with an official from a Christian orphanage who Iris believed would help them adopt the 3-month-old babies.
He said the woman, Mariam Rizkallah, had given the couple forged birth certificates listing Iris and Louis as the parents.
Rizkallah is also in jail, awaiting trial in the same case.
"The thing that Iris insists, (is) that ... every time she meets Mariam she says to her, 'Is this thing legal?'. Mariam says to her, 'Yes, it is legal.'," Saleh said.
"In the States it (adoption) is legal. And in the States when you are adopting a child, you put him with your name," Ahmed said, explaining why the couple may have been confused.
TURNED IN BY U.S. EMBASSY
Forged birth certificates and other documents in hand, Iris eventually headed to the U.S. embassy to arrange for the children to travel to the United States, Saleh said.
But he said embassy officials became suspicious because of the children's birth dates. Based on the birth certificates, Iris would have had to have flown to Egypt late in a twin pregnancy, when airlines typically bar such travel.
Iris initially told the embassy that the children were born to her, but under questioning quickly conceded that she had not given birth to them, her lawyer said.
The embassy alerted Egyptian authorities, who arrested the pair. The children were sent back to an orphanage, Saleh added.
He said the couple had paid money, but believed it was for expenses for the children, like clothing.
The amount, 26,000 Egyptian pounds, is many thousands of dollars less than Americans typically pay for private legal domestic adoptions or for the adoption of children from abroad.
Iris's brother said he believes his sister was duped by her contacts in Egypt. He said she believed the orphanage official was connected to the Coptic Church, an institution she trusts.
"We have big roots in the church. We grew up in the church ... We trust the church," Botros said. "She was dying to be a mom, and she wanted to give a child a better life."
He said the couple had tried unsuccessfully for over a decade to get pregnant. Then, Iris's father died in July, increasing her longing for a child to fill the void.
"These are very, very hard working people ... They are helping a lot in the church. They even send money for kids in Kenya. They worked all their life and they deserve a break," Botros said.
"These kids would be better with these parents than to be in an orphanage."
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African americans who were once smuggled into America have a better chance than staying back home..Obama is an example. Posts: 3219 | From: Wisdom comes with age, but sometimes age comes alone. | Registered: Nov 2005
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This happens everywhere, as long as there are mother willing to sell, and couples willing to buy. We had such an issue in Holland, with Belgian mothers. Sometimes the baby was a result of artificial inseminiation, so the real father bought a child that grew by a voluntairily mother, against payment. Some people prevale money over principles. In the case of an unmarried young mother in Egypt, I can understand. But in case of a Belgian woman,she is just renting out her body. Even that is no problem for me, it is he decision and if she wants to make money the easy way, let her do what she wants. As soon as it is against the law, it's another subject. At least two people are involved with this illegal transactions; the seller and the buyer. Here we have an accountant, a gyneacologist, and the orphanage-broker. So, 4 people have to share that 26.000 EP. I don't expect this will be equally shared, BTW, it is very well possible that the mother had to pay for that 'founded solution'. What a world we are living in...
Having children or not, is something that has been given or not. Why can't couples just accept the fact that they are not able to get children? Why can't they find a satisfying way to fill in their lives without getting obsessed that there is something they want, but cannot get?
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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I read about this case. Then in another colomn , a very famous Egyptian writer wrote about his confusion when it comes to such cases, he wrote something that went that way:
Would I prefer that these babies turn into homeless street children being raped, harrassed and abused everday, living far from any boundaries of religion or citizenship? Then, later join the army of 2 million street children building terror in the hearts of Egyptians. Or would I prefer that they be raised up in a developed country by ppl who know nothing about Islam, Egypt or Arabs yet will provide these kids with a decent life and warmth of family?"
Well, it's very confusing!!! I have to admit.
As long as these kids were to have families deprived of children-not sold for their body parts like in other cases- I sort of pity them for being sent back (( I'm sort of ashamed to admit it honestly.
Posts: 1813 | From: Cairo | Registered: Aug 2002
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A popular scientific magazine wrote recently that it seems unhealthy for children to grow up, without knowing the real identity of your father and mother. People have to know their roots,so that are able to indentify theirselve, understanding why they are how they are... Not even considering the genetic issue's about the looks, health, hereditary deviations, or simple character... A child has to understand where it came from. Wether is is made out of a love-relationship, or produced by a tube in a labatory. (and why) Everything is 'explainable', when brought carefull enough, but 'natural parents unknown' cannot be explained. They need explanations.
In case of the western women who are renting out their body as a kind of broodingplace, I've changed my opinion after thinking it over. I don't think it will do a child good to know that her mother was a commercial broodingplace, and prefered to stay anonymous because her only reason was money... And it happens. In different varieties. Commercial trade of children...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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Different perspective: Who says the buyer did have good plans with the children? The journalist talked about a wealthy life in the US, with a US-Passport, education, healthcare, and two loving parents. What if the buyers had not-so-decent plans with the children they have bought? Child-abusement is international, as also is prostitution. Or the trade in organs? All possibilities. The gyneacologist, the accountant, the orphanage-supervisor, perhaps even the mother, did not care about this. It has not been investigated. Also this happens...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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Haha, you're right. All streets are paved with gold, they all will get rich and therefore happy, living in the US or Europe is a guarantee for a troublefree life! While people are throwing theirselves in front of a raiding train daily, or something else defenitive what should end their lifes. Maybe even more as in Egypt...
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Ngeg: I read about this case. Then in another colomn , a very famous Egyptian writer wrote about his confusion when it comes to such cases, he wrote something that went that way:
Would I prefer that these babies turn into homeless street children being raped, harrassed and abused everday, living far from any boundaries of religion or citizenship? Then, later join the army of 2 million street children building terror in the hearts of Egyptians. Or would I prefer that they be raised up in a developed country by ppl who know nothing about Islam, Egypt or Arabs yet will provide these kids with a decent life and warmth of family?"
Well, it's very confusing!!! I have to admit.
As long as these kids were to have families deprived of children-not sold for their body parts like in other cases- I sort of pity them for being sent back (( I'm sort of ashamed to admit it honestly.
Well in the case I posted the link today the children were not smuggled YET out of country and they would have gone to an obviously very faithful Coptic Christian family - so they wouldn't even have to change their religion.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by ?????: Having children or not, is something that has been given or not. Why can't couples just accept the fact that they are not able to get children? Why can't they find a satisfying way to fill in their lives without getting obsessed that there is something they want, but cannot get?
I truly don't believe wanting a child is an obsessive trait because in general we humans longing to have offspring, we want to reproduce and a family - at least at one point. And others who don't elect to have a spouse or even children will have their reasons and I respect that hence nothing is worse than a child getting born unwanted.
I kinda feel that Egyptian woman and her husband who want nothing but to call a child - well in this case they were two - their own.
And in the US they would have had their chances - but with their illegal action they will never have the option to adopt in America or anywhere else abroad. They truly should have known better and seeking advice before naively going into this dilemma. I guess that shows how desperate they were.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
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Maybe Egypt needs to reflect on their policy of no adoption and change it. Then the agency involved could throughly check out the prospective parents.
Personally i feel that a happy home in the US verses the streets of Cairo is a no brainer to me as along as the parents are good people.
Originally posted by ?????: Having children or not, is something that has been given or not. Why can't couples just accept the fact that they are not able to get children? Why can't they find a satisfying way to fill in their lives without getting obsessed that there is something they want, but cannot get? ----------------------------------------------
I think that is easier said than done though ?????. Like me you have children and i truly believe my life would not have been as happy if i couldn't of had my children. I know of friends who are finding it hard to get pregnant and they live and breathe this 24 hours a days. It is so hard for them to come to terms with it. Of course there are people who choose not to have children and they have every right but at least they have the choice. From being quite young i KNEW i wanted children one day, god knows how i would of felt if i couldn't have any and what i would do.
Like i said i can't imagine my life without my 'little darlings' Posts: 895 | Registered: Sep 2007
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I honestly believe that my life won't be less or more happier with or without having children of my own. I know the stories about the childless couples trying to get pregnant. I think this is something mentally. Certain things never will be ours, no matter how much we long for it. After knowing that, we have to be able to switch the inner button on acceptance.
This is not about the choice to 'take' children or not, this is also not about the alternatives like adoption.
We all have to find a way to fill in our lifes in the most satisfactional way for ourselves. We can do that with all the tools that are given to us, but at a certain moment that we cannot do something else as accept.
There are so many things that can happen in each and everybodies life, and I sure do think there is not one most fullfilling way. We can lose sight, get paralised, terminal ill, we can probably get pregnant and have a disabled baby, all things that can happen, and that are crossing our futures like we had in mind.
What is a disaster for one ( not getting pregnant) will be total trivial for a topsporter who gets injured and is not able to play anymore. He will consider his bad luck as more bad as that from the mother who wants to get pregnant.
We are not able to controll life, a big part is out of our hands. Some things are given, some things are not. When we are thát far that we can accept this, then we can live out lifes in a more satisfactional way.
-------------------- “Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I will meet you there.” Posts: 7202 | From: EU | Registered: Nov 2006
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