[This message has been edited by dajjal supreme (edited 24 May 2004).]

[This message has been edited by dajjal supreme (edited 24 May 2004).]

I blame him personally for my younger brother drifting towards religeous ignorance

quote:

---

Originally posted by Saladin:
Thank god he is not allowed in Egypt anymore. One of the best decisions the government made if it is indeed true. I blame him personally for my younger brother drifting towards religeous ignorance

---

Religious ignorance?May I ask, like what?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Saladin:
Thank god he is not allowed in Egypt anymore. One of the best decisions the government made if it is indeed true. I blame him personally for my younger brother drifting towards religeous ignorance

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ahmad1:

Religious ignorance?May I ask, like what?

BTW, Amr Khaled said by himself that none asked him to leave.

---

what's all that Amr Khaled bashing about these days? I mean, the man is talking directly to special groups of society, esp. the youth, and the working middle-class I'd say, and he reaches them because he talks in their own words, that they can understand and relate to. He gives examples out of everyday's life and so many youngster, who are otherwise neglected by the other sheikhs can relate to him. If Amr Khaled is the cause for one girl to start to think about her deen and to decide to wear the hajab, or is the cause for any young man to stop smoking and to start to pray, then he has definetley done more than anyone of us!

I'd appriciate some proof and evidence for statements that Amr Khaled said something wrong... what did he say? to whom and where and which circumstances?

Also would anyone care to elaborate more on the religious ignorance issue?

Every person has his/her own rizk written for him by Allah, it is not at odd at all to be a believing muslim and to be rich too. This is a special trial for this person, to keep his duty to Allah (pray, Koran, fasting, gratefulness, patience, humility etc.), towards the people (fairness to the workers, employees, fair wages and salaries, fair treatment and working hours etc), towards his family (time with the spouse, teach the children etc), and towards the poor (zakat, presents etc), despite being rich and busy to manage the finanances. It is a huge responsibility to be rich!

If a person has so much money, that he can efford 20 BMW's, it would not be haram for him, if at the same time he keeps his religious and social duties! and why would it be forbidden if the income is from a halal source it is a special gift and blessing from God, and a trial.

about Amr Khaled the rumour I heard, and I say it is a rumour without having any proof for it; that the wife of Alaa M. decided to veil herself after listening to Amr Khaled's lessons, and since she was insisting and her huband not willing to divorce her (despite the pressure from his parents), Amr Khaled was 'invited' to leave the country, while A.M. and his wife are in kind of solitary confinement, wa Allahu alam.

salam, Karin

quote:

---

Originally posted by karinfarid:
hi all,

what's all that Amr Khaled bashing about these days? I mean, the man is talking directly to special groups of society, esp. the youth, and the working middle-class I'd say, and he reaches them because he talks in their own words, that they can understand and relate to. He gives examples out of everyday's life and so many youngster, who are otherwise neglected by the other sheikhs can relate to him. If Amr Khaled is the cause for one girl to start to think about her deen and to decide to wear the hajab, or is the cause for any young man to stop smoking and to start to pray, then he has definetley done more than anyone of us!

I'd appriciate some proof and evidence for statements that Amr Khaled said something wrong... what did he say? to whom and where and which circumstances?

Also would anyone care to elaborate more on the religious ignorance issue?

Every person has his/her own rizk written for him by Allah, it is not at odd at all to be a believing muslim and to be rich too. This is a special trial for this person, to keep his duty to Allah (pray, Koran, fasting, gratefulness, patience, humility etc.), towards the people (fairness to the workers, employees, fair wages and salaries, fair treatment and working hours etc), towards his family (time with the spouse, teach the children etc), and towards the poor (zakat, presents etc), despite being rich and busy to manage the finanances. It is a huge responsibility to be rich!

If a person has so much money, that he can efford 20 BMW's, it would not be haram for him, if at the same time he keeps his religious and social duties! and why would it be forbidden if the income is from a halal source it is a special gift and blessing from God, and a trial.

about Amr Khaled the rumour I heard, and I say it is a rumour without having any proof for it; that the wife of Alaa M. decided to veil herself after listening to Amr Khaled's lessons, and since she was insisting and her huband not willing to divorce her (despite the pressure from his parents), Amr Khaled was 'invited' to leave the country, while A.M. and his wife are in kind of solitary confinement, wa Allahu alam.

salam, Karin

---

Assalamu Alaikum,

Muslim should alwayes assume the best out of other muslims. I Can't tell if Amro khaled is a great believer or bad person...we are told to assume the good and say Allahu aalam. the message is what we should look more carefully in and I find what he says and his goals are wonderful which affected many people and changed the life of some of them towards better one. but this does not neglect the fact that some people concentrate more on the person than the message. And I think it's better to take the middle line betwen the two extreme ones.

quote:

---

Originally posted by NOxReducer:
Well he'd obviously say that!!!! Wouldnt he now...? But he was 'asked' to leave the country as far as i know...and good riddance i'd say to that...

[This message has been edited by NOxReducer (edited 25 May 2004).]

---

What you said and Mohsen just tells me the man has no chance. I'm glad he prefers not to talk about this stuff much as it will take him no where.

Well amr khaled has made his prints, he managed t oreach the majority of the youth with a simple up to date manner and thanks to allah many of them were blessed alhamdulilah and thats what we should all be concerned about more rather than what he wears or drive ( we dont judge but he the almighty only does), and why do we think he should do his message for free?? its a duty and should be paid for.. he has a great message and certainly he suceeded in much of it and may allah bless him and bless our all youth..

the reason for amr khaleds throw isnt just a matter of governmental issue but its part of that war on islam, u think our government is responsible for much of its decisions??? well its an ordered government to follow much of masters philosophies and sure we do know who their masters are..

please think sensible and never judge by an outlook or appearence, look at how amr khaleds project to prosper muslims are going through. simply pay a visit to the maryland or masjid ahmad tousson and many other places see how many people are indulging in great activities for teh sake of islam and muslims and simply who is behind this reunification which is happening?? of course its allah but great deal of effort to amr khaled..be sensible when u judge and judge by result and outcome and not by a matter of personal appeal of a person to you..

We really need to reunify, we are facing much of a difficult time, and we ourselves are destroying whatever could bring a glimmer of hope and light to our selves..

finally he is never back to egypt and still within lebanon but his teachings reaching all of us, and no one can ever stop the word of allah from reaching our hearts and souls

be safe

I don't really have anything against an honest successfull Muslim buisnessman driving a BMW. But where the hell does Amr Khaled get HIS money??? I mean you say it's his own money, then what are the sources of this income? He trades in religion? He gets donations from oil rich gulf sheikhs? He gets money from his casette distribution company and Iqra and whatever? The problem is that he is now OWNED by the people who pay him. They are paying him because he promotes their views, and he is getting used to being paid, so it's a fat chance that he would disagree with his sponsors ever. I think a man of religion should be totally independent financially, as in he should have a fixed reasonable income not related to casette sales and Iqra time slots ratings.

As to Amr Khaled himself, and aside from the fact that he is totally unqualified and ignorant in the subject matter, not to mention his high pitched droning maddening baritone; aside from all that he has one problem: HE SAYS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. I am gonn'a level with all ya Amr Khaled maniacs out there, some of my friends tried to get me hooked and I really did try to listen to some of his casettes but they had NO FRICKED POINT. There was no theme, no objective, no message, just a repetitive boring loop of "eghselo regleko abl matnamo" followed by episodes of lamenting the state of Muslims in Palestine and Iraq that leave me sure that this guy has a chronic constipation problem. Sorry but I don't get the point. And yeah, in my line of work I've seen the kind of teenagers that Amr Khaled lets loose on us, girls in Hijab and boys in beards with absolutely no sense of ethics. No thanks.

Televangelism Sucks.

Sorry for all ya fans, have fun listening to him but don't ask me to respect either him.

[This message has been edited by kimo_the_maniac (edited 25 May 2004).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by dajjal supreme:
Kimo just because he is obtaining his money from 'sponsors' does necessarily require to him to be loyal to those providing him with those funds. It's not the relgious aspect of this that concerns me, but more of the vilification of a man I am presuming you do not know personally. Let alone the preaching of 'Nothing', but on what basis do you reach the conclusion that this man is acting as a spokesman for certain people? I know people over here who are members of the royal family who receive special privileges because of their identity including a monthly allowance some people would be unable to earn if they worked for two life times. Yet they are not loyal to those who are providing them with this wealth, and would prefer it being distributed more equally amongst the citizens.

---

Now that's just naiive. When people are paying you "donations" there is bound to be lobbying involved, to assume otherwise is a bit off. And don't compare him to Gulf royalty. These guys get their money out of birthright, he gets it because he is spreading a manifesto that his sponsors approve of. Once he disagrees with them poof there goes the BMW.

I understand what your saying about influencing these men of religion, but my point is some of them are so deeply attached with their religion it's going to take more than $$$ to change their minds. Evangelists through out the decades have been slandered with all kinds of dirt, but the thing is it was mostly true. Yet in the Arab region you get all kinds of slanders thrown at successful people for no reason. I remember my arabic teacher once telling me not to listen to Michael Jackson because he said if I find one Arab listening to my tape I will stop singing forever!!! She tried in vain to convince me it was true, the sad thing is my mother had also told me the same thing about MJ. When he is not molesting children he is hating Arabs

***Disclaimer: What follows are my views and opinions on certain events and people. I'm sure lots of other people feel differently about Amr Khaled. They are entitled to their opinion but I will not be drawn into an argument about who is right and wrong****

Ever since I graduated from AUC in 98 I have been living abroad and only come to Egypt once or twice a year to visit. On one visit my brother started talking about Amr Khaled. I decided to watch a couple of episodes. I have to agree the man is very compelling, and is an expert of making people feel guilty about themselves.

Amr Khaled is what I like to call a 'gateway' into religeous ignorance (or extremism, take your pick) much in the same way people call marijuana a gateway drug. He tallks about the life of the sa7abi, embelishing as much as possible and then compares them to "today's youth" and makes you feel essentially unworthy to call yourself a muslim. In addition to this he tries to address the youth in their language and relates to them well, making himself sound like a reasonable person.

The next stage was that my brother got drawn deeper and deeper into this web of religeous extremism. He stops listening to Amr Khaled because he believes he is too soft and only speaks in the manner he does to not appear contreversial. He starts listening to tapes from other sheikhs, and its not 'over the counter' kind of tapes. He firmly believes that Amr Khaled was the introduction, but his job was to wet the appetite and get him started on his current journey.

My brother starts praying excessively, and I mean enough to miss classes and such. He rubs his head against rough surfaces trying to get the 'zebiba' faster. He started taking private tutoring in Quran and Islamic religeon (keep in mind we are talking about a college student here). I told him that he already took classes in that in school. He said that the government syllabus in school was bogus and he was leanring the 'real thing' now. His new associates which he meets at this classes are dubious at best. They always change the home in which the private lesson is being given, probably because they are weary of the authorities. They even convinced my brother that football is haram. He was also convinced that Pepsi & Fairuz, listening to music and watching movies are all haram.

What probably hurts the most is that all the aspirations and ambition he had when he got into college is gone. No longer does he want to pursue graduate studies like all his brothers did abroad or make something of himself. He just wants to get married immediatly upon graduation (arranged marriage - probably the sister of one of his new friends) and settle down in a mediocre job.

I knew things wouldn't have gotten to that stage if I was living in Egypt myself, I could have pointed out the flaws in his way of thinking from the very beginning. Now when I challenge his views he does not listen and simply brushes me aside as someone who has lived in the West for too long. As for my parents, they were too pleased to see him settle down and cause less trouble that they are oblivious to the dangers of the path he has taken.

[This message has been edited by Saladin (edited 25 May 2004).]

Thanks for sharing the story of your brother.
It's sad that he has no more educational ambitions.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Saladin:
Well sorry for writing a post like that and then not elaborating. Its quite personal but here goes.

***Disclaimer: What follows are my views and opinions on certain events and people. I'm sure lots of other people feel differently about Amr Khaled. They are entitled to their opinion but I will not be drawn into an argument about who is right and wrong****

Ever since I graduated from AUC in 98 I have been living abroad and only come to Egypt once or twice a year to visit. On one visit my brother started talking about Amr Khaled. I decided to watch a couple of episodes. I have to agree the man is very compelling, and is an expert of making people feel guilty about themselves.

Amr Khaled is what I like to call a 'gateway' into religeous ignorance (or extremism, take your pick) much in the same way people call marijuana a gateway drug. He tallks about the life of the sa7abi, embelishing as much as possible and then compares them to "today's youth" and makes you feel essentially unworthy to call yourself a muslim. In addition to this he tries to address the youth in their language and relates to them well, making himself sound like a reasonable person.

The next stage was that my brother got drawn deeper and deeper into this web of religeous extremism. He stops listening to Amr Khaled because he believes he is too soft and only speaks in the manner he does to not appear contreversial. He starts listening to tapes from other sheikhs, and its not 'over the counter' kind of tapes. He firmly believes that Amr Khaled was the introduction, but his job was to wet the appetite and get him started on his current journey.

My brother starts praying excessively, and I mean enough to miss classes and such. He rubs his head against rough surfaces trying to get the 'zebiba' faster. He started taking private tutoring in Quran and Islamic religeon (keep in mind we are talking about a college student here). I told him that he already took classes in that in school. He said that the government syllabus in school was bogus and he was leanring the 'real thing' now. His new associates which he meets at this classes are dubious at best. They always change the home in which the private lesson is being given, probably because they are weary of the authorities. They even convinced my brother that football is haram. He was also convinced that Pepsi & Fairuz, listening to music and watching movies are all haram.

What probably hurts the most is that all the aspirations and ambition he had when he got into college is gone. No longer does he want to pursue graduate studies like all his brothers did abroad or make something of himself. He just wants to get married immediatly upon graduation (arranged marriage - probably the sister of one of his new friends) and settle down in a mediocre job.

I knew things wouldn't have gotten to that stage if I was living in Egypt myself, I could have pointed out the flaws in his way of thinking from the very beginning. Now when I challenge his views he does not listen and simply brushes me aside as someone who has lived in the West for too long. As for my parents, they were too pleased to see him settle down and cause less trouble that they are oblivious to the dangers of the path he has taken.

[This message has been edited by Saladin (edited 25 May 2004).]

[This message has been edited by Saladin (edited 25 May 2004).]

---

I know of more than one person who had a totally opposite experince to what you said regarding your brother. Amro Khaled does encourage the youth to take care of thiere study and many other scholars (even between the extreme side)do the same.If your brother did the opposite then who is to be blamed?

I know of a relative who was alwayes lazy about his study and carless...right now I'm expecting this relative to get a high degree in his study (if not to be the first ). And this was the reason of why I started to think "who is Amro" and "what does he say?" I knew him through a good fruit he produced.He seems to be very practical giving the youth hope that they can do alot of things when many of them felt that they are far away from achieveing anything (which is again different from your understanding of Amro) Needless to tell about people who refrained from drugs or other bad habits.

As for the ART stuff. Amr's mentality didn't change he likes to reach the youth anywhere he can.IS it good for Azhar scholars to appear in Egyptian TV and not for anyone else? UNless you think our TV is much different than others.I don't think it's wise for "Daa3yiah" to set home and expect people to come for him.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ahmad1:
The discussion here seems to be mostly of mere assumptions.

---

i still dont understand whats wrong with the guy? we know that our goverment is corrupted big time and it follow orders so when he is deprived from his right of freedom of speech by the goverment, this tells that that he was right because the goverment is always wrong. He wasnt kicked out but he was told u r not allowed to go to be an imam or even go to the mosque or get out of his house so he was kicked out indirectly.

He being outside Egypt was a great advantage for everybody. Now he have access to all muslium youth all over the world through website and visits and he came here to canada because we invited him, we all like him here.

i wonder why some people hate him while he did so many good things for muslium youth?

1) he made more sisters wear hijab including my sis.

2) lots of brother arnt smoking as before including my friends back home.

3)the last project that was world wide where everybody had to donate their cloth for poor ppl. that was a huge success.

quote:

---

Originally posted by NOxReducer:
I used to teach at AUC for a while, and one of my students, had a beard, and the forehead thing...again not crticising this, the guy was obviously religious, but he cheated all the time, talked all the time in lectures, I mean is this behaviour you'd associate with someone who is religious and by the book?
[This message has been edited by NOxReducer (edited 22 June 2004).]

---

WOW! i just stumpled on this site by accident- where oh where do i start- ok firstly i suppose i shoud say hi to everyone hope you are all well

now for amr khaled- a few points written down as quickly as possible- the first word or phrase relates to something that was brought up on this page

-money- ok he comes from a very well off family- let us put it like this he is not working class, in fact you guys should find out who is grand father is- really interesting then you might understand that his wealth is partly inherited. the other part- well he is a successful accountant alhamdulilah has his own company or something

-london wales- eh- well now a lot of arabs say london when they are talking about the whole of the uk- it is like are you from london- no from birmingham- huh where is that - england- yeah what did i say -london- anyway as i live in london for half the year i see it as an honour that the whole of the uk is epitomised as being london... london my friends is a cool place... anyway if he did say this then he has passed the arab test!

phd- yes i can say he is definately doing a phd- in Lampeter- see that uni does courses in islam etc etc... anyway his phd is in the area of islamic revival, comparison between western or eastern models something like that anyway- it is the kind of thing which he is doing in his recent show- so hope that confirms that one

- religion- interesting point being made about his islamic authority- and what you say is wise we do need to check what ppl say... but you raise some important points- firstly do we only take from scholars- to this the answer is of course not- fatwas can only be given by scholars but are we then saying that only scholars can give lectures? well balikhu ani wa low bi ayah makes it clear that even if we only know one verse we should teach it- the important thing is to make sure you are basing your teachings on sound evidence and that you use other ppls fatwas and not make up tuff- of course he does this and even states the shiekhs whose fatwas he is using when he is trying to drive a point home, secondly his authority... well he studied about islam in mahad aldirasat alislamiyah as well as with various teachers, the latter is in fact how the early muslims became learned before the advent of universities, anyway the real key here is to see what scholars say about him- and low and behold they support him, and even when some ppl have turned around and said he is not qualifies some really big scholars have shown him their support- hence i think we can say he is qualified to do what he is currently doing

- as for saladin's bro- that is really said, may Allah SWT help you guys return him to the straight path... although i must say taking quran lessons is not a bad thing- but i agree is worrying if he is missing his college lessons- you never know it might be a phase- anyway i think it is unfair to blame what has happened to him as being amr khaled's fault- that is as bazaar as the other extreme, the ppl that say dont learn english cos if you do it will lead the way to a life of prostitution, drugs etc etc... english as amr khaled does not tell us to be extreme, in fact as mentioned by someone else he is against that kind of stuff.

-it seems there is caution about ppl turning to islam in huge numbers- well this is interesting cos living in england ppl from abroad who are totally non-practicing will be totally taken aback by the way loads of us have turned to islam even though we could have another life... islam is the logical answer- and i disagree it is for those who think- even if u dont get something at first eventually u do- if someone buys a computer has had no experience of one and will not use the manual an then his friend comes along and uses the manual- what would we say- seriously- we would say the guy that used the manual was using his brain and the other guy- well inshallah yshagil aglo- in the same way if you chose to live and not read the manual written by the one who made life ie islam is the manual and Allah SWT is the creator then you would not be using your brain- someone suggested it was ppl that are uneducated etc that follow him- well i would disagree- i have no stats but i can say that a lot of really brainy ppl follow him, in fact i will take it a step further ppl at some of the top academic institutions in the world- not egypt of amrica but the world, the top percentile- yeal well he has supporters in that class! and that my friends i can vouch for cos some of those are my friends! i think the question is this- islam is awakening ppl of intellect are all jumping on the bandwagon why will we not jump on?

-ART and half naked women- in his recent show he dedicates a whole episode to respecting a womens body- he is not talking about hijab he is talking about being a sex symbol- and he says that we should boycott any channel that shows stuff like that and asks for ppl to take part and write letters etc etc etc

- 9 year old wearing a scarf- well if it was her choice and her family explained the implications then why not, just as it is wrong for anyone to force a kid to wear it same it is wrong for anyone to force a kid not to wear it- or does choice only apply when we want it to?

-phagocyte- good manners and socialists- i have quite a few socialist friends- interestingly it is the right that are known for good character- the lefties hardly have a reputation for it… anyway the prophet SAW said something to the effect of i only came to perfect good manners/character

-about scholars not thinking and statues in the house- well there is a difference of opinion on whether you can have images- based on scholars interpretations… and trust me you need a brain to be a scholar no lay man can draw from so many different disciplines, analyse etc etc

-as for amr khaled’s tapes not hitting you- that is a shame, initially I thought he was just normal, it was no big deal I would walk in and out a room where his lectures were being played but eventually some struck a cord and all I can say is alhamdulilah cos I know I would otherwise be missing out. at the end of the day ppl are inclined to different preachers it is no problem who you are inclined to as long as you are inclined to one at least I suppose. Ma be you just didn’t hear the right one for you.
girls really liking his style… actually this is a general phenomina women tend to be at the fore-front of islamic revival- all I can say is you men betta catch up!

his voice- well my sister thinks he has a lisp I have never noticed it- but I think we can all safely say it is quite lame to diss a person for their voice- sorry I know we all tend to do it sometimes but it is really lame- anyway it is about what u do with the voice

nox reducer- you highlight a problem- the guys with the beards who cheat- yeah that is wrong finding a preacher who disagrees would be quite difficult- this individual is not fully practicing islam- for there is a hadith who ever cheats is not amongst us- or o that effect- the thing is are we not all to a lesser or greater extent hypocrites- but it is really strange the way I find this so often- it is so easy to point the finger- and it aint just in our religion- 2 jewish friends were talking about jews who only eat kocher but as ppl have faults--- well guess what welcome to the world- I have a theory on this and it states that when you see someone better than you either in character, situation, religion etc etc ppl have a way of dealing with it- sometimes as ppl we try to catch them out or find their faults – it kind of makes you feel better- but only in the short term- take girls- if a really pritty one walks past girls tend to try and pick out a weakness (for want of a better word) either physical say her nose is big or character say she is boring or anything else- although it has to be said that sometimes it is just really obvious and not so much to do with other factors- say someone has nice clothes- but they smell- they smell and however you try to ignore that it is just too obvious… so yeah may b this guy is practicing in some ways but aint in others and it is obvious he has really bad manners- but do you blame the notion of practicing or the dude himself- it is like shall we blame the clothes or the guy that smells-

anywayz those are my thoughts- sorry for it being so long--- anyway where I am living right now it is night so sweat dream everone!

wasalamu’alaykum

i can say that u had stayed for the whole night writting ur post.

i like what u had posted and i support u in wat u said.