?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

quote:

---

Originally posted by mody:
how did u get this pic of me?hehehe:-)

---

Very funny.

You don't watch the news, do you, mody?

Here is a link for those who havent heard:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Farhana:
It's awful, just a drop in the ocean though. If we really knew about all the atrocities happening in the world right now, we would surely go insane.
I feel my problems are nothing compared to others in other countries.

Here is a link for those who havent heard:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/27/60II/main614063.shtml

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pito:
Is G.W.Bush going to pull out of Iraq? What does he want? I think American will pull out when G.W.Bush loses in the next election...

What do you think.
PITO

---

Overall, I believe, America is not going to pull out of Iraq in one way or another (be it a military occupation or economic invasion), until all oil is pumped out for the American consumer. Unfortunately, there is not much government support for developing alternative sources of energy in USA. Development of such technologies needs government funding for a private sector to go on a big scale. The current US government is not interested in searching for alternatives, but use the world oil supply for as long as it is there.

As far as the military presence in the near term, it depends on who wins the elections in November and what their platform on the issue is.

But as far as the amatuer GWB and his league, Jay Leno has a number on that lately.

"Mr. President, you realy do not have a solid exit strategy from Iraq?, do you?"

Mr. President: " No, we have a strategery on the issue. Look for the nearest exit!"

It is a joke in the 21st century to have a country occupying another against the will of it's own people.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pito:
I guess American people have a big responsibility in the next election, having a moron like G.W.Bush in the white house is big no no,

PITO

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ramses nemesis:

http://www.bushflash.com/idiot.html

---

I loved it, the chorus is catchy.

http://www.ericblumrich.com/lotto.html

quote:

---

Originally posted by homesick2:

I loved it, the chorus is catchy.

http://www.ericblumrich.com/lotto.html

[This message has been edited by homesick2 (edited 01 May 2004).]

---

actually both sites are one and the same, loads of interesting stuff, some funny some really sad.
http://www.bushflash.com/index.html

cheers !!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pito:
Is G.W.Bush going to pull out of Iraq? What does he want? I think American will pull out when G.W.Bush loses in the next election...

What do you think.
PITO

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bapha:
the US will never pull out of Iraq, or any other country that they invade - unless people unity and kick their asses out!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by elmagnoon:
you said it, only way is to kill as many as we can then they will leave us alone, like bush said it's a crusade muslems against dogs

---

hey mate,
whilst I take issue with some of your words, I assure you that god is on our side, whoever "we" are !!!
heck !!! even Hitler believed that, have a look

http://www.bushflash.com/faith.html?

Subject: RARE TRUTH BY GERALDO RIVERA

The Buildings That AREN'T Burning In Iraq

"They have a saying in the news business," Geraldo Rivera related this week. "Reporters don't report buildings that don't burn." And with that introduction, he told a TV audience about the story that is being systematically denied to our entire nation: the success story of post-Saddam Iraq.

Are we losing some soldiers each week?
Yes.

Is there some frustration in the public about electricity and water service?
Yes.

Are some Saddam Hussein loyalists throughout the land, making trouble?
Yes.

Has this opened a window for some terrorist mischief?
Yes.

But that's ALL we hear. No wonder the country is in a mixed mood about Iraq. If you hear about the buildings that are not burning, though, it is a different story indeed.

Rivera is no shield for George W. Bush. But Bush, Condi Rice and Colin Powell together could not have been as effective as Geraldo was Thursday night on the Fox News Channel's Hannity and Colmes program.

"When I got to Baghdad, I barely recognized it," he began, comparing his just-completed trip to two others he made during and just after the battle to topple Saddam. "You have over 30,000 Iraqi cops and militiamen already on the job.

This is four months after major fighting stopped. Can you imagine that kind of gearing up in this country? Law and order is better; archaeological sites are being preserved; factories, schools are being guarded." But what about the secondhand griping that the media have been so efficiently relating about power, water and other infrastructure?

"To say that Iraq is being rebuilt is not true," answered Rivera. "Iraq is being built. There was no infrastructure before; we are doing it. I just think the good news is being underestimated and under reported." At this juncture, one must evaluate how to feel about the voices telling us only about the bad news in Iraq, whether from the mouths of news anchors or Democratic presidential hopefuls. At best, they are under informed. At worst, their one-sided assessments of post-Saddam Iraq are intentional falsehoods for obvious reasons.

If I hear one more person mock that "Mission Accomplished" banner beneath which President Bush thanked a shipload of sailors and Marines a few months back, I'm going to spit. That was a reference to the ouster of Saddam's regime, and that mission was indeed accomplished, apparently to the great chagrin of the American left. No one said what followed would be easy or cheap, and that's why the dripping-water torture of the cost and casualty stories is so infuriating.

Remember we pay our soldiers whether they are in Iraq or in Ft Bragg, North Carolina.

We should all mourn the loss of every fallen soldier. But context cries out to be heard. Our present news media is not performing this task. As some dare to wonder if this might become a Vietnam-like quagmire, I'll remind whoever
needs it that most of our 58,000 Vietnam war toll died between 1966 and 1972, during which we lost an average of about 8,000 per year. That's about 22 per day, every day, for thousands of days on end.

Let us hear NO MORE Vietnam comparisons. They do not equate.

What I hope to hear is more truth; even if we have to wrench it from the mouths of the media and political hacks predisposed to bash the remarkable job we are
doing every day in what was not so long ago a totalitarian wasteland. Local elections are under way across Iraq, Rivera reported. "Where Kurds and Arabs have been battling for decades, things have been settling down. Administrator Paul Bremer is doing a great job."

So does Geraldo think his media colleagues are intentionally painting with one side of the brush?

"I'm not into conspiracy theories, but there's just more bang for your buck when you report the GI who got killed rather than the 99 who didn't get killed; who make friends, who helped schedule elections; who helped shops get open for business; who helped traffic flow again.

"The vast majority of Iraqis are very happy to have us there. I would like to see a bit more balance." This needs to be reported to the American Public who are
presently being duped. I expect the dominant media culture to nitpick and attack Bush, and Democrats to blast him with reckless abandon. But when that leads
to the willful exclusion of facts that would shine truthful light on the great work of the American armed forces, that level of malice plumbs new depths.

If you have a friend that is looking for the truth, and another point of view, pass this on.

my friend, you need to do a serious reality check!

How do name it, when US soldiers shoot at ambulances and foreign peace activists who cleary identy themselves with their passports and loudspeaker, because they want to help bring medical supplies or transport the injured and dead (away from their own garden yards, where they were shot by snipers, when they tried to leave their homes while their families and kids were watching and could not move out to even bury the dead because they would get shot too!), to local clinics where hundreds of Iraqis are dying from their wounds? (do I have to mention that US soldiers bombed and completely destroyed the only hospital around?) doctors operating stomach and head wounds at candle light, matches and lighters, because electricity constantly blackes out? children shot in the heads by US snipers? old women with a white flag clutched in their heads and a bullet in the stomach?
http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/ http://www.vitw.org

He kind of reminds me of Jesse Jackson who will do anything to get his name in the newspaper...

quote:

---

Originally posted by homesick2:

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

---

Everyone is talking about the torture of US-troops in Iraq. Nobody is talking of the Iraqi tortures under Saddams regine.
AND NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT TORTURE IN EGYPT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL

AI Index: MDE 12/003/2004 (Public)
25 March 2004

Egypt: 26 new prisoners of conscience
Amnesty International has today adopted as prisoners of conscience the 3 British and 23 Egyptian men sentenced to between one and five years' imprisonment in connection with their alleged affiliation with the Islamic Liberation Party (Hizb al-Tahrir al-Islami).

The organization is calling for their immediate and unconditional release, believing that they have been convicted solely for their peacefully held views.

Twelve of the defendants - including the three British men Maajid Nawaz, Ian Malcolm Nisbett, Reza Pankhurst - received sentences of five years' imprisonment.

Amnesty International is also renewing its call for long-standing torture allegations to be investigated.

The trial of the 26 men was heard by the (Emergency) Supreme State Security Court in Cairo, an exceptional court that violates international fair trial standards. This court denies defendants the right to appeal against a verdict.

The three British men and a number of the Egyptians were held for weeks in incommunicado detention at premises of the State Security Intelligence, after their arrest in Cairo in April and May 2002.

Amnesty International has received information that several of them were subjected to electric shocks and other forms of torture and ill-treatment. Along with a fourth Briton - Hassan Rizfi - who was later released, the British men allege that they were tortured at the headquarters of the State Security Intelligence (SSI) in Cairo, where torture is systematically practised.

During their detention the three British men wrote direct appeals from their prison cells to Prime Minister Tony Blair repeating their allegations that torture was used to force 'confessions' from them. They urged Mr Blair to intervene on their behalf. Their case was reportedly raised with the Egyptian authorities by Foreign Secretary Jack Straw during a visit to the country.

Background Information
The UN Committee against Torture examined Egypt's report to the committee in 2002 and expressed particular concern at widespread evidence of torture at the premises of the State Security Intelligence (SSI). In addition to long-standing concerns over the systematic practice of torture in Egypt, there are currently several thousand prisoners held in Egyptian prisons without charge or trial, or following unfair trials.

Public Document

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laura:
On a more serious note, it seems that ....................... I thought there were rules set up by the Geneva convention on treatment of prisoners. Does this penalty applies to USA?

Laura

---

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

hahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahaha

quote:

---

Originally posted by homesick2:

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

---

I'm so ashamed as an American for this...what bad joke it seems that we took such pride in "liberating" Iraqis from torture and suppresion. Really this is spitting on the face of basic humanity.

May Allah be with all.

quote:

---

Originally posted by remi:
the americans went to war to free the iraqis from torture by saddam and wat r they doing now, hypercrites.
It's not all the soliders just some that need their heads checking out, wat if the iraqis get american and british soliders and do the same then bush and blair will be making a big deal of it and they will then do something about it and it's being done to the iraqis but all they r doin is saying sorry.
They r not free from torture and will they eva be free Bush has not kept to his promise, they have Saddam and now they r trying to wipe out all the people. Here in England thousands of people marched against the war but our goverment does not listen to us, I'm for sure that Tony Blair will not win the votes this year in England.

May Allah be with all.

Saalam

---

Bush and Blair never broke their promise. They never went to Iraq to free Iraqis from Saddam. It is a marketing pitch/BS that they gave to the public to sell the war both here in US and Britain. They went to Iraq for oil and they remained "true" to their word. I also hope Bush will not be reelected for a second term

[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 05 May 2004).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by cairofan:
War is an ugly messy place.

---

Would you mind enlightening me as to when America or Britain, or any of the other countries there "declared war" on Iraq?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laura:
Would you mind enlightening me as to when America or Britain, or any of the other countries there "declared war" on Iraq?

---

I meant "a war" in general: military actions, occupation, invasion whichever term you would prefer. I wanted to convey the idea that cruelty is timeless, regarldess of nationality, century, relgion, whether a military action is oficially declared or not. Also, did Germany declare a war in 1939? War does not have to be declared. There are no such things as rules in a war. It is simply a bloody messy place, absurd and cruel.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laura:
It's not about the term I prefer to use. It's about using the correct term, which is Occupation.

---

The definition of "war" varies. You may find this very enlightning
http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/w/war.htm

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laura:
I don't need to read some wordy philosophical dissertation of the word war by someone I have never heard of to know the meaning. The correct term for the presence of US troops in Iraq is Occupation. Plain and Simple. If the media and others would use the correct term, maybe more people would have protested this disgusting Invasion from the very beginning. But then when Zionists control much of the media today, who should be shocked. Wake up!

---

Do not get carried away so easily. "war" menas occupation as well. I do not have to wake up. I have been quite awake all my life. You missed my point. I never defended America/Britain/Zionists. Where do you infer this from? In fact, i would for sure agree with you that there is no justification for occupation or war or military action or invasion in Iraq. I am totally against. I simply said war as opposed to peace (war is occupation indeed) is bloody and horrific. Germany invaded and occupied many countries during WW2. The invaded countries had the rigth to defend themselves. Nazi killed and tortured. The Allies abused German civilians, too, not just simply battled with Nazi. Goes both ways and ugly.

I do not need the correct term "war" or "occupation" to protest. In fact, I did it regardless. I am against it no matter how it is "termed"

Americans love this word "war". There is always a "war" going on about something...The war on drugs, The war on freedom, The war on terrorism, The war on poverty,..blah blah blah...How about a war on Zionist control!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laura:
I don't think I am getting carried away but you are entitled to your opinion on that. I just get fed up with hearing this term "war" used. My point was, that if more start referring to the Invasion and Occupation of Iraq in these terms, which are the correct terms, people in the US might be more informed, and less supportive, and not mislead by the lies of Bush and his Zionist friends.

---

1. You assume that I disagree with you since you still insist that "I am entitled to my opinion" while I repeatedly stated that I am against what is going on and I PROTESTED. I do not disagree with you.
2. You assume I am from USA. And I am not. Perhaps many people in USA need more precise terminology, for me war is a multi-faceted word which connotates occupation as well. There is no need to equate "them" be "they" Americans, British with me who used the term "war" instead of "occupation". Too many assumptions, Laura, and jumping to hasty conclusions

3. I agree with you point on USA/Britain/Zionists friends. My original point was to state that cruelty happens in any messy conflict. It should be condemned regardless.