Also it gives you a chance to decide where you want to live. which area suits you the best. There is no rush to buy not like in the Uk prices go up up and you can miss the chance of owning somewhere. Take you time and don't be pressurised.

I intend to stay in my flat for the next ten years. It is wonderful, is in the middle of Luxor, has five baconies, 2 air conditioning units (and a bidet in each bathroom) provided by the landlord. As I said I have paid nothing towards it at all. I just moved my furniture in.

You cannot compare the cost of renting a flat in Luxor with that of renting one in Cairo. I have already been told (by someone who lives there) that my flat would cost at least 4,000 LE per month in Cairo instead of the 1,500 that I pay for it. (the original 3 bedroom half of the flat cost me 650 LE).

There are thousands of empty flats in Luxor that are already finished. Landlords are desperate for people to put in them. some of them have been empty for years. It's a renter's market - bargain like crazy.

Can I give you a piece of advice about lawyers? If there are two parties to a contract never ever use the same lawyer between you. If one lawyer is Moslem then get a christian lawyer and visa versa. Not because one is more honest than the other but because there is less likely to be collusion between them if they are of different religions.

I doubt that there is a queue of people waiting for the flat so make him an offer, He will say no. Let him stew for a while. He will come back to the negotiating table and be more reasonable.

Only you know whether you can trust your husband or not. If he has not negotiated the long-term rent of a flat before then he might not know what the cost is either. To solve any future problems make sure that the lease in entirely in your name.

It's a bit like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted but my lease is now in my name - my flat is my castle

I have read the other forums with interest. I certainly had doubts about my husband many times and sometimes still do (the languare is a barrier - he does have English and getting better at the languare).

I think that I may have been the victim of the same felluca/motor boat being sold again and again. I would be the first to stand up and say yes I was a fool!!, I did give him money to buy one of these motor-boats, about Stg.£7,000. Having discovered he was lying to me he then told me he used the money to buy land with the intention of building a house. When I asked for the money back he offered me a flat in his villa. I did visit his village (about 12 klms from Luxor) many times. Nice to visit but not for me to live there. He lives with his family in one of these mud houses, mud floors, no proper sanitary facilities, running water etc. extremely nice family though - his child is the mose adorable child I have ever seen - follows me everwhere and insists that I stay overnight which I have done many times - now calls me Mama ! I do have some sympathy with his family with this kind of living.

However, the women I have met seem to be extremely happy, quite content with their lot, strong minded, all of them seemed to be happily married and have husbands who are most loving to them and treat them like queens (not "wife beaters", a term associated with Muslim men).
I have spoken to many women in the UK who would love to be a "stay at home wife" expecially when the children are young, rather than joining the rat race, due to the economic pressures put upon married couples with rising house costs, and having to juggle their time between the home, creches, early morning tubes, a full day's work, seeking time off work when the children are ill, and then trying to make ends meet having paid for the mortgage, car, household bills etc.

Now who has the easier life?

I do like the country, the people, the culture, the lifestyle etc. (him most of the time when we are not squabbling over the subject of what he says is the final word - any man who thinks he is superior to a woman (Egyptian or not) does not wash with me).

I have read Jane's comments with interest and I do so envy her life. I do miss the life in Luxor and hope to make a permanent home for myself there for the future.

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Originally posted by lotusflower:
Thanks newcomer, this may actually throw some light on the property matter -- the laywer is stongly negotiating the monthly rental period to a term of 10 years (after this interest is paid at 4 per cent on the LE 700 per month-which would then bring the rent to LE 728 per month from the 11th year - there is an option of purchasing the apartment outright after the 10 year period.

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Hi lotusflower!

If the landlord is talking about selling his flat to you after ten years - what kind of nominal sum are we talking about? I doubt that it would be all that nominal and certainly not peppercorn.

Is the flat in Luxor or on the West BAnk.

(a) Is this flat in his villa? (b) Daft question really - the land that was bought - is it in your name?

Don't reply to the questions on line. If you want to 'talk' to me do if off-line on Lizasutton@hotmail.com. That way both of us can aviod the moral lash back of those that feel they can walk on water.

The land on the west bank is not in my name (loss to me but I have free use of the villa when it is built) this is to be built at his costs now.

My idea was to stay independent of his family on the West Bank - the flat will mainly be used (for him and I when I am there) when I am not in Luxor the flat will be used for business in that I hope to market the flat for tourists & send over friends, visitors etc. to be charged at a weekly rate in Stg. (but free use for my family), the hubby to take over from there with tours, boat trips etc.

Negotiotions to date are deposit Stg£2,700, costs of interior fittings and furniture Stg.£5,000.00. The flat will be in joint names - long term lease of 9 years at the agreed rent of Stg.£60.00 per month.

If matters do not work out between my husband and I (& we terminate the agreement) I recover my deposit and furniture (not the costs of the interior fittings).
I have no intention of parting with big wads of cash to purchase a flat outright with any man from Luxor.

A couple of quick thoughts. You started talking about LE then switched to GBP, I know it isn’t possible to predict the exchange rate in the future, but you may get a better price if the contract was in LE.
If you are paying all these costs and you end up terminating the contract after a few years, and it seems a possibility as you don’t seem fully confident of your husband from what you have said, he will obviously stand to gain quite well from the deal.
The tamlik that was described to me in Cairo was a 70,000LE deposit with a 200LE monthly rent, but I don’t know how much the last payment to purchase was, but was told it would be nominal. Hope this helps.

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Originally posted by mydream:
Thanks lotusflower for your help, we are not orfi married to an Egyptian, so I assume that will put a different slant on the lease thing.
We have been offered the help from an Egyptian man whose family we visit - we do feel he is a genuine guy but as mentioned here many times there would be a niggling doubt as far as leases/money etc.
But at least luxorlover has mentioned prices etc which is a great help.
The one thing I am a little concerned about, if we do accept the help of the guy. I don't want him thinking he can visit.
I know Luxor is a small place but are there better areas as regards renting a flat.
I suppose some thing overlooking the Nile would be impossible?! That would be paradise especially with the call to prayer.

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Be very careful about places overlooking the Nile on the West Bank. A lot of people have caught a cold there as the land they were 'sold' wasn't building land. The sale papers are not worth the paper they are writen on. The government has started to demolish houses there even of Westerners who had whole sheafs of paper work including licenses for water and electricity and receipts from the city council.

I continually thank God that my Mahmoud was sensible enough to reject land there and build where we are overlooking the Theban hills. I think the view is spectacular and we also have proper paper work from Cairo for the land, the flats and the swimming pool.

It is definately a case of let the buyer beware.

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Originally posted by akshar:
My advice would be to rent until you know what is what. As you have rightly identified if your husbnad and the lawyer are conspiring together yu don't stand a chance. That is exactly what happened to Luxorlover I beleive. Renting is a much better option and you can get places here really cheap. Moll has been renting in Luxor for years as a tourist coming over here 3/4 times a year and she has a lovely place.

Also it gives you a chance to decide where you want to live. which area suits you the best. There is no rush to buy not like in the Uk prices go up up and you can miss the chance of owning somewhere. Take you time and don't be pressurised.

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As for general letting - well, each few streets has a sort of freelance agent that knows of all the vacant flats in his area. He takes commission from both sides of the deal but only when he has found you a flat that you like. He will accompany you around dozens if need be until you find one that suits.

All you have to do is let it be known to a few Egyptians that you are flat hunting and you will be swamped with offers. One word of warning though. You will be asked how much rent you are willing to pay and every flat you are shown good or bad will be at that price. Remember that nothing in Egypt has a fixed price tag so bargain. If you find a flat that you like make an offer on the rent just as you would make an offer if you were buying.

You can have a lease in your own name. YOu do not need a man for it, Eyptian or European. My lease is entirely in my name. It is not a problem. It only becomes a problem if you want an Egyptian man to live with you. Then you must have a marriage certificate or the police may come after you.

Rents can be less if an Egyptian arranges it but that is only because they are better at bargaining.

As for letting a flat yourself. That is fraught with problems if you want it to be your home when you are there. The husband of a friend of mine let her flat out while she was in England and the woman that rented it stole all her clothes. When my friend returned all the wardrobes and drawers were completely empty.

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Originally posted by Luxorlover:
Don't go near it. You can get a completely finished 3 bed flat in Luxor without any deposit for upwards of 400 LE a per month. Any landlord will be more than pleased to give you a two to three year fixed rent (renewable) contract on that.

I intend to stay in my flat for the next ten years. It is wonderful, is in the middle of Luxor, has five baconies, 2 air conditioning units (and a bidet in each bathroom) provided by the landlord. As I said I have paid nothing towards it at all. I just moved my furniture in.

Your 30,00 deposit would cover 5 years of rent alone on a 500 LE flat. Why buy when you can get a deal like that - and you can move out if you don't like the neighbours.

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Originally posted by lotusflower:
Just to mention this type of lease deal is only available if you have the green paper orfi marriage (registered with Court stamps) with an Egyptian man.

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