dear sora, i don't mean any harm but are you a muslim?
I know my answer to your question should be either yes or no. But my answer is I don't know. If I explain to you further here, I know it will open up a new debate which I prefer not to. But I can tell you this, hoping you would understand me..
I was brought up in country where Religion does not play a big part in peoples life. Religion to me was merely a subject I breifly learned at school and examed at the end of the year. My parents are Christians and I do beleive that their is one God up there. But going to the church, reading the bibile things were not a routine thing throughout mylife.
When I came to Egypt, it was the first time I came face to face with Islam. Based on my little knowledge, I found Islam very similar to my beliefs. The more I learned, the more I started to question because I am interested to understand. Because of my limited knowledge, I do not critisize. I do not critisize because the relation between one person with God is strictly personal just like I prefer others not to bother me. (For your information, not critisizing does not automatically mean I accept....)
I am married to a muslim and have a muslim child. I want my child to learn all religions and hope he is convinced in his. I study Quran with him. I am not veiled but I totally understand and admire the reason behind it. This is my first Ramadan I am fasting simply because respect the purpose. But am I a muslim? I don't know.
You asked about homosexual people. Before knowing these people, I looked down on them and thought they were sick dirty people. But, Misfit, when you get to know new people, do you normally ask their sexuality? By the time I learn they are lesbian or gay, I have already built a strong basis called friendship and though I don't accept homosexuality, these people are no different than I am. It is a big sin but who am I to critisize..Don't we all have a sin?
I once worked as a translator for the Worlds AIDS Conference. Met many homosexual participants and AIDS patients. Some were great people I am grateful to have met them.
Regarding the full body swim suit, I agree with you. If I was at a beach and saw 2 ladies, 1 women in a bikini and the other in this full body swimsuit, I would stare at the latter one. Wearing any cloths into the water does get more attention. I am sure I would not even bother to look if the latter lady simply wore a normal swimsuit.
About the women only beach.. I don't think I critised about it.... All I know is what I have heard which is currupted... Maybe it is best to hear from someone who actually been there.
Sora
[This message has been edited by Sora (edited 26 October 2005).]
Posts: 181 | From: By the River Nile - Cairo | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Sora: But, Misfit, when you get to know new people, do you normally ask their sexuality? By the time I learn they are lesbian or gay
i actually do my own observation instead of asking directly because i have to draw a line sometime, i wouldn't want to be approached by any gay. i'm sorry if you thought i was attacking you, i wasn't doing that by any means, all i was doing is using a part of your post to make a point and my criticism was not directed to you. by the way, i do have some gay friends who understand i'm not at all available, i enjoy their company and they are great people, my own conviction is that they have a psychological or hormonal problem, but it's not up to me or to anyone to treat them, if they want they can seek treatment, but they also have the right to believe they are normal people and to live their lives as such. i don't exactly remember my post but i think my point was regarding the contradiction between being a muslim and a homosexual, you're only required to understand that there is no place in islam for homosexuals although even some of them like to think otherwise. Posts: 956 | From: nowhere | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
I know Misfit. I did not feel that you were attacking me at all. I respect your thoughts and I undersatand your point.
Talking about homosexuals, if one is ignorant about Islam and his/her preference is not how God creates us, will these people go to Hell? Since we are talking about Islam, if a muslim turns homosexual, then I can understand its a big NO NO and will be sent to hell. But a non-religious person, who never met muslims and haven't got a clue what the Quran says go to hell because he/she lived as a homosexual? I am interested to know your opinion.
Are you a Muslim? (Just asking out of curiousity...)
Sora
Posts: 181 | From: By the River Nile - Cairo | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Morgan: I always ask ...what if ur own child was gay and muslim never answer !!!!
ARE you trying to tell us you're GAY MORGAN!?? OMGGG Snoozin' should never find out about this!! She would be so hurt, and please, the next time you go to visit her, take some flowers or spam or cheese whiz or something!!!
quote:Originally posted by Morgan: I always ask ...what if ur own child was gay and muslim never answer !!!!
quite honestly, if my child was gay i would be very sad but i shall never hate him or turn his life to misery, and i shall eventually respect his wish. and speaking more honestly, if it was my daughter who was a lesbian i wouldn't be happy either but i wouldn't be as sad!
quote:Originally posted by misfit: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Morgan: [b]I always ask ...what if ur own child was gay and muslim never answer !!!!
quite honestly, if my child was gay i would be very sad but i shall never hate him or turn his life to misery, and i shall eventually respect his wish. and speaking more honestly, if it was my daughter who was a lesbian i wouldn't be happy either but i wouldn't be as sad!
quote:Originally posted by Sora: I Are you a Muslim? (Just asking out of curiousity...)
Sora
yes, it was my luck to be born as a muslim.
i have to disagree with you on the matter of muslims turning homosexuals, i don't believe in most cases it's a matter of choice really, i think there is a percentage of gays who became gays because they just can't initiate and maintain a sexual relationship with a woman, but those are not all the gays, there are others who are gays because of hormonal disturbances and others for psychological disturbances and others because their genes are such formulated, in the latter three cases it is hardly their choice and we can argue that this is how god has created them, we can not judge them for how they were created and demand them to go against their nature.
the origins of homosexuality are embedded in all of us, we all evoloved from unisexual less developed organisms, we were all some hermafrodite creatures ones who incorporated male and female within the same body, we all have a percentage of their genes, genes are memory codes that leave a certain trace and are never wiped off through the ages, we all have male and female hormones in our bodies..so many factors interact to give rise to our sexual orientation. it would be greatly unfair to condemn people for something they have very little control over, some genetic code that has been there for a million of years.
but of course you need to believe in science and evolution in the first place to believe what i'm saying, and of course most reliious people don't!
quote:Originally posted by misfit: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Nooralhaq20055: [b] Are you a man?
i think you already know the answer noor so why is the question?
[/B][/QUOTE]
I seriously didn't know the answer, that's why I asked Perhaps the reason you would be more upset if the daughter was gay rather than the son is because you are a man. If you were a woman I wouldn't know what to say
quote:Originally posted by misfit: honestly,if my child was gay i would be very sad but i shall never hate him or turn his life to misery, and if it was my daughter who was a lesbian i wouldn't be happy either but i wouldn't be as sad!
can anyone give an explanation for that?
I guess it's less disgusting to think of two ladies exchanging DNA.
I respect people's sexual preferences just as long as all this stays away from my ass!
A Canadian friend of mine walked in onto her gay flatmate while having sex with his boyfriend in the living room on the couch.. She stood there, totally stunned, and while holding her heart like she didn't want it to stop, all she could say was: "I'm scarred for life".
quote:Originally posted by misfit: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Morgan: [b]I always ask ...what if ur own child was gay and muslim never answer !!!!
quite honestly, if my child was gay i would be very sad but i shall never hate him or turn his life to misery, and i shall eventually respect his wish. and speaking more honestly, if it was my daughter who was a lesbian i wouldn't be happy either but i wouldn't be as sad!
can anyone give an explanation for that?
[/B][/QUOTE]
This is similar to the reason why I respect my homosexual friends. Friends or family, we love them no matter what and accept them for who they are.
Posts: 181 | From: By the River Nile - Cairo | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Sora: This is similar to the reason why I respect my homosexual friends. Friends or family, we love them no matter what and accept them for who they are.
It's easy to respect everyone when you want everyone else to embrace and accept your lewd lifestyle
quote:Originally posted by Nooralhaq20055: Perhaps the reason you would be more upset if the daughter was gay rather than the son is because you are a man.
posted
You can be bi, just not by me. LOL Just kidding. They don't bother me. Of course, I'm probably in the minority here about this. If you take religious reasons out of it and focus on the individual themselves there's no issue. Their sexual preference doesn't define them.
Posts: 1063 | From: Oregon | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Egyptians: topless sunbathing, topless sunbathing, topless in the beach,topless sunbathing, topless sunbathing, topless in the beach,topless sunbathing, topless sunbathing, topless in the beach,topless sunbathing, topless sunbathing, topless in the beach?
quote:Originally posted by misfit: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Nooralhaq20055: [b] Perhaps the reason you would be more upset if the daughter was gay rather than the son is because you are a man.
i said i would be more upset if it's the boy
[/B][/QUOTE]
Excuse my "vulgarity"!!! Penetrating an Egyptian man (stright ones)is the ultimate humilation of his dignity. Perhaps more humilating to him than knowing someone did his sister or daughtur!
I have no doubt Egyptians will feel more comfortable about their daughtur having one fun night with another girl than knowing another man did her!! the later means shame and humilation!!! and may lead to some honour crime!!!
Cultural influnce!!!And is naturally common for all creatures!!! where the male will even kill if another man crossed his territories!!!Letting a man in the territory without his permission is a sign of weakness man can't live with!!!!And this is only about penetrating one of the harem!!!! Can you imagine how fukd up it's when someone even goes as far as fukng the boss himself?!!
Will I ever get paid for my damn psycho-analysis !!!!!!!!!!
[This message has been edited by Masriii (edited 28 October 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari: Where have you been ya wad? W'Feen ettablah ba2ah?!!
Ettabla 3albotagaz bets7'an ya m3allema!!! Gara eeeh ya ukhtiiiii!!! mesta3gela 3ala nemratek leeeh?!!!al ya3ni elafra7 mat'ta3a ba3daha!! 7asra 3alina da 7atta kolli nas betegawiz Dj delwa'ti !!!
posted
Well, I am actually new to this message board.
My Background: Born and living in Germany, Parents are Egyptian, Student.
Anyways..
Concerning the gay issue. I guess we have to distinguish between our personal attitude and the islamic judgement on it.
When I was in school, some 8 years ago, a gay joined a class above me and it was quite unusual back then. People used to mock him etc.. I guess this has changed dramatically in the last years.. So I don't bother anymore engaging in any of kind of related discussions, especially when it comes to evolution and the like, most often claiming that homosexuality occurs in nature, within certain types of animals. Well , I don't regard myself an animal-descendant. So...
And my aversion against homosexuality, I guess, it comes from my natural attraction to the opposite sex, but foremost from my GOD-giving intuition.
But thats just my personal opinion.
Frankly speaking, since all this recent gay-promotion (festivals, "intellecutal education" in Europe, I got used to live with it as part of this society and I truely don"t know how to handle it appropiately anymore.
One day, I had a discussion with a dear friend of mine about it, and I was quite surprised how calmly and wise his portrayal of the islamic view was. No "I hate gays, I kill them all" words. Instead he mentioned that actually Islam did discuss homosexuality. For instance in the description of the people of Lot. Or by a hadith, where the Prophet - peace be uopn him - stated, that it is not allowed for one man to sleep with another man under one cover, instead they should use two, if they happen to share a bed. Or by simply forbidding the gaze at private parts no matter what sex.
All this accounts to our natural fight with our own lust and self. And the on-going fight with the devil, who draws our attention to the Haram things. I think that it could happen to everyone to actually become gay, if confronted with pornography. Or better, by simply polluting our heart with Haram matter. I guess, it is our natural attraction to the forbidden things. And if exceeding in those things, eventually one could hit the borders, set by ALLAH.
Regarding people, who claim there are born gay.... I think they are tested by God and their task is to overcome this lust if they want to please the Almighty.
Refraining form it, is like refraining form Alcohol.. however on a different level.
[2.155] And We will most certainly try you with somewhat of fear and hunger and loss of property and lives and fruits; and give good news to the patient,
Last, I certainly wasn't able to explain the islamic view appropriately. I guess that is because I forgot some stuff my friend told me and because I am not good at given my point-of-view properly in English. Pardon.
P.S.: I don't mean to offend anybody in any way. Just my humble opinion. I realized that some users here are a little to eager to fight.. So.. RELAX FOLKS....
quote:Originally posted by thinkdifferent: I realized that some users here are a little to eager to fight.. So.. RELAX FOLKS....
hi thinkdifferent, if you think people are eager to fight here in this thread then you're bound to get a heart attack when you see how it's like in other threads!
Regarding people, who claim there are born gay.... I think they are tested by God and their task is to overcome this lust if they want to please the Almighty.\
i believe that in order to be fair and just, you need to do a bit of scientific research on the matter.. how do you know whether they claim to be born gay or they are actually born gay? and if they have a sort of hormonal disorder, how can they overcome that? how can an acromegalic (a pathologically gigantic person) overcome his hyper secretion of growth hormones?
I think that it could happen to everyone to actually become gay, if confronted with pornography. Or better, by simply polluting our heart with Haram matter. I guess, it is our natural attraction to the forbidden things.
i don't know about you but if i'm confronted with pornography a million times a day i'm sure i still won't find men sexually appealing, and i can think of many other forbidden things to be attracted to.
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