posted
This is a serious question. And I would like it taken as such, I am not asking this to arouse any religious sensitivities, nor will I enter into discussions in that vein
I have great admiration to those who respect others, and accept them as they are. From this stance it follows that when you love some one, you do not demand that they change their beliefs to marry you.
I would like therefore to know, are there any courageous Muslim women here who are married to Non-Muslims (i.e. did not convert).
Of course I know this can only happen outside Islamic countries.
I will stick my neck out and ask Koushari , if she is?. Please forgive me if I stepped over the mark !
Posts: 249 | From: usa | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I started a similar topic in the "Share your Egyptian Experiences / Love & Marriage Chat" - section. It´s not just about Muslim women marrying Non-Muslims but more general about "cross-religious couples". You can have a look at: http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001066
As far as I learned it is extremely unusual that a Muslim woman would marry a non-Muslim.
Posts: 173 | From: Germany | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Medosa: I would like therefore to know, are there any courageous Muslim women here who are married to Non-Muslims (i.e. did not convert).
I will stick my neck out and ask Koushari , if she is?. Please forgive me if I stepped over the mark !
Wow Medosa welcome back. I've missed you loads..
I would be delighted to answer your question and I'm not afraid of telling my story. It's just that I've decided never to talk about my religious background here in Holland because of the terrible pressure on Moslims since 9/11 then the murder of Theo van Gogh and all that..
But because you are my dear Medosa, I'll answer your question.
First if all, I do not apply to the group of people you mentioned, but I had a friend who does; she went off and married a Dutchman here in Holland and is still considered "anesah!" back in Egypt. They both are not religious at all but this is not the reason they're having a shitty marriage. It's that she's a garr shakal person and is never thankful for the great man she has.
I didn't want to be her friend anymore after having to put up too many times with her vulgar language and behavior. But she thinks I'm one of those people who cannot tolerate her being a non-practicing Moslim.
Funny isn't it? When some idiots on ES think I'm Kafir (not ~4ever though!).
Anyway, when I met my husband I was already Dutch, so I married him here under the Dutch law, but I still insisted he came and asked for my hand from my family, and we also went to al-Azhar for him to convert, although I didn't think it was necessary as long as he did that verbally, moreover I was really sceptical about meeting an Azhari dickhead who would give hubby a hard time asking him if he only wanted to convert for me. But we met the most wonderful sheikh who was so kind to hubby that I burst out in tears and my husband went back home with a stack of books the sheikh gave him, and he is still reading them with much interest.
So without going into too many details, we both are practicing moslims, but we don't need any fatwas or any mass hysteria. We have our understanding for Islam that is based on OUR interpretation and no body else's.
Behind closed doors, we have a very good relationship with God. And we owe nobody no explanation!
quote:Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari: [QUOTE]
So without going into too many details, we both are practicing moslims, but we don't need any fatwas or any mass hysteria. We have our understanding for Islam that is based on OUR interpretation and no body else's.
Best statment I had read for a very long time.........My Kingdom (aldin al moamala).......I never asked my wife to convert and three Years after we got married she decided to convert..I love her for who she is ..if she had converted or not...Some of my friends when they Know that I was going to marry a JAP..they cut their ties with me but if you look at the amount of BS and immorality in their life..you can not even beleive it....and when my wife decided to became a Muslim they wanted to be my friends again...Ya right! simply they can go to hell .They are nothing but false and hypocratic idiots...
quote:
Behind closed doors, we have a very good relationship with God.
GOOD FOR YOU.....GOOD LUCKPosts: 2691 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari: Wow! Tiger! Your wife is Japanese? That is so cool. I love Japanese women. Have no idea why actually, but they just seem so nice and "clean" to me! Does she speak any Arabic now?
I know a Dutchman whose wife is Japanese and they lived in Japan for years until their children went to school, and that's when they decided to pack and leave back to Holland because, guess what, their kids were discriminated in Japan for being half-whites!
Did you experience any problems in Japan with you kids being mixed?
Thank you for your kind words. [/QB]
My wife Know a little Arabic now but she can Sing for Mohammed Fawzy ....Mama zamanha gaya....
My Kids Like any other mixed kids..they are very pretty...as a matter of fact my son did a cataloge pix for GAP kids...
I consider myself a lucky man since I have the family that I have now..and pray to God to keep our unity all the time...
Posts: 2691 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
quote:
I would be delighted to answer your question and I'm not afraid of telling my story. It's just that I've decided never to talk about my religious background here in Holland because of the terrible pressure on Moslims since 9/11 then the murder of Theo van Gogh and all that..
So without going into too many details, we both are practicing moslims, but we don't need any fatwas or any mass hysteria. We have our understanding for Islam that is based on OUR interpretation and no body else's.
[/QB]
Of course, there is definitely a serious pressure on Muslims since 9/11. But still, I want people to know that I´m a Muslim. I want them to see that we are not different from them (Germans, Dutch, whoever...) Unfortunately, these days Muslims are too often depicted as dark & dangerous in the media. I want the poeple around me to see that this is not the true picture. I respect non-Muslims, most of my friends are non-Muslims. But at the same time I want them to show respect for me and my religion. No need for fear of contact. I celebrate Christmas with them, they celebrate Eid-al-Fitr with me.
Posts: 173 | From: Germany | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Tiger1225: My Kids Like any other mixed kids..they are very pretty...as a matter of fact my son did a cataloge pix for GAP kids...
quote:Originally posted by Merima: I want people to know that I´m a Muslim. I want them to see that we are not different from them (Germans, Dutch, whoever...)
Oh yeah my good friends know what I believe in.
I just don't talk about it unless I'm asked. And my answer depens on how well I know the person. If I don't know them well or don't feel comfortable, I switch to the "weather talk"!
Posts: 8756 | From: Tax-Free Zone | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
We know couples who are western/italian/lebanese/moroccan married to a japanese wife. My ex husband is chinese indonesian, and he said that a japanese wife is one of the best a man can have, as they are truly devoted and really respect family, so they then get the same returned to them through their own quiet actions. I have a really close friend who is Japanese, she married an aussie guy and they have the best marriage-you can feel it when you enter their home-they are making all the cross cultural issues work for them. Her first baby is due in March! We also know quite a few aussie guys married to indonesian girls, and the man ALL converted to islam before marriage. I dont know how they really believe inside themselves, but they say they are muslim amongst the indonesians, but I think they are quiet about it at their " aussie" work place etc. I think they are nervous to say they are converts. They say its the fastest growing religion here in Australia-maybe a lot due to conversions?
Posts: 872 | From: Sydney | Registered: Nov 2005
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are there any courageous Muslim women here who are married to Non-Muslims (i.e. did not convert).
They would not be characterized as courageous!!!! This has nothing to do with courage it has a lot to do with disbelief.
Posts: 637 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
A moslem man could marry a woman with relegion,but moslem women doesn't allow to marry a man exept moslem..from any country..any other marriage is forbidden (HARAM)so women who did this and they are moslems and think they are married they live with this man under a wrong cover say marriage,,and they are only living haram with thim..sorry it seams hard but Islam doesen't allow a woman moslem to marry a man with any other relegion..even if they are married and man changes his religion.she has to stop living with him..it is totaly forbidden.
Posts: 29 | From: Egypt | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
it happen..but such women live with such a man in forbiden case..so in islam she is not real moslem anymore..such women don't know anything about Islam, they would be ........ can't say this here
Posts: 25 | From: Eg | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Is it really fair to say she is not a Muslim? Wouldn't she be considered a Muslim who was committing a sin? There is a difference....
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Snoozin: Is it really fair to say she is not a Muslim? Wouldn't she be considered a Muslim who was committing a sin? There is a difference....
You see Snoozin, in a fcuked up society like ours, everyone thinks he´s God, so everyone can decide for everyone else if they´re moslim or not.
If people in Egypt would only mind their own business, they will die of boredom!!
Posts: 8756 | From: Tax-Free Zone | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Snoozin: Is it really fair to say she is not a Muslim? Wouldn't she be considered a Muslim who was committing a sin? There is a difference....
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Snoozin: Is it really fair to say she is not a Muslim? Wouldn't she be considered a Muslim who was committing a sin? There is a difference.... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You see Snoozin, in a fcuked up society like ours, everyone thinks he´s God, so everyone can decide for everyone else if they´re moslim or not.
If people in Egypt would only mind their own business, they will die of boredom!!
no comment...it is our relegion..and it is so fair...
Posts: 25 | From: Eg | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Snoozin: Is it really fair to say she is not a Muslim? Wouldn't she be considered a Muslim who was committing a sin? There is a difference.... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You see Snoozin, in a fcuked up society like ours, everyone thinks he´s God, so everyone can decide for everyone else if they´re moslim or not.
If people in Egypt would only mind their own business, they will die of boredom!!
no comment...it is our relegion..and it is so fair...
Andi..We all know that the religion is fair..only if the followers followed it the way it is meant to be instead of each one make himself a mofti.and goes around and prosecute everyone who has a different understanding than his...
As far as I know...there were a man who came to Mohamed (ppuh) and asked him what is the evil deed and the prophet (ppuh) said ASK YOUR HEART...THE EVIL DEED IS WHAT FELT WRONG IN YOUR HEART ....
So you get the point ..I hope Posts: 2691 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
quote:Originally posted by Snoozin: Is it really fair to say she is not a Muslim? Wouldn't she be considered a Muslim who was committing a sin? There is a difference....
You see Snoozin, in a fcuked up society like ours, everyone thinks he´s God, so everyone can decide for everyone else if they´re moslim or not.
If people in Egypt would only mind their own business, they will die of boredom!!
My Kingdom, this is not an exclusively Egyptian attitude. Too many Bosnians (would) behave the same. Posts: 173 | From: Germany | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Snoozin: Is it really fair to say she is not a Muslim? Wouldn't she be considered a Muslim who was committing a sin? There is a difference....
Who is allowed to presume to tell these women that they´re no Muslims any longer? What kind of authority would that be? This is only a matter between these women and God, and nobody else`s business.
Posts: 173 | From: Germany | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Merima: Who is allowed to presume to tell these women that they´re no Muslims any longer? What kind of authority would that be? This is only a matter between these women and God, and nobody else`s business.
Personally, I agree with you 100%. I know *I* mess up all the time, and I don't want anyone telling me what I am or what I'm not. To me, God is the only judge I care about.
Posts: 8794 | From: 01-20-09 The End of an Error | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Personally, I agree with you 100%. I know *I* mess up all the time, and I don't want anyone telling me what I am or what I'm not. To me, God is the only judge I care about.
///// At the center of your being you have the answer; you know who you are and you know what you want. --Lao-tzu Posts: 1744 | From: Romania | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
The most bosnians i know are muslims,ONLY in WORDS!The marriage for NOn Muslim is the last 7aram they make,lol! We all have a free will,we all alone can decide whats best for us,and ghow to do it! Tiger wise statament again,man! Koshari.....i enjoyed totaly on your story,COOL! What the people thinks for me is less important,than how i feel,and see the things!If my steps make me happy,and i am in harmony with God,by my own way and understanding,not as someone will try to lead my life....THX but NO thanks! God keep ya all! Didi
-------------------- "If you judge people, you have no time to love them" Posts: 1134 | From: NoNe oF uR BuSiNeS | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by didi_elsayed: The most bosnians i know are muslims,ONLY in WORDS!The marriage for NOn Muslim is the last 7aram they make,lol! We all have a free will,we all alone can decide whats best for us,and ghow to do it! Tiger wise statament again,man! Koshari.....i enjoyed totaly on your story,COOL! What the people thinks for me is less important,than how i feel,and see the things!If my steps make me happy,and i am in harmony with God,by my own way and understanding,not as someone will try to lead my life....THX but NO thanks! God keep ya all! Didi
Hi Didi, there are Bosnians who only have Muslim names. BUT we should not forget that there are also very many Bosnians who are very serious about their religion. And as far as I can say, there is a majority that is well aware of their religion and live according to it. Perhaps, it´s different from Islam in Egypt, but it´s still very present in society. And your statement about marriage with non-Muslims is just wrong. I know too many families who would or already have broken tie with their daughters and sons for marrying non-Muslims.
You are right, we all have a free will to decide how to live our lives. But for me it would be extremely difficult to decide in favor of my family or a marriage with a non-Muslim man.
Posts: 173 | From: Germany | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Medosa: I would like therefore to know, are there any courageous Muslim women here who are married to Non-Muslims (i.e. did not convert).
Of course I know this can only happen outside Islamic countries.
I will stick my neck out and ask Koushari , if she is?. Please forgive me if I stepped over the mark !
Well, last summer i met this Egyptian muslim lady married to a greek. They have 3 kids and she settled there. She said she gave up her cty, family and everything for the life she has now and she d never regret it. She misses her mom, but she tries not to think of it. I will save u my comments on the topic. But yeah it happens.
I also have an Egyptian neighbour married to a Serbian guy. This story sucks, bcz , not only did he refuse to convert for the sake of their relationship. But the guy is ANTI-muslim. ANTI! Not Anti Egyptian which could be acceptable..but he's against the whole religion. He hates anything relevant to Islam and he once told me- answering my question of meeting half way-: If u think my kids will fast the silly ramadan I'd say u r crazy!!
Posts: 1813 | From: Cairo | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Merima: Who is allowed to presume to tell these women that they´re no Muslims any longer? What kind of authority would that be? This is only a matter between these women and God, and nobody else`s business.
Personally, I agree with you 100%. I know *I* mess up all the time, and I don't want anyone telling me what I am or what I'm not. To me, God is the only judge I care about.
When someone asks what's Islam's position on Muslim woman marrying a Non-Msulim man, what will your answer be?
Your answer should be based on your knowledge of Islam. Your answer is a form of judgement on her behavior and that is quite normal. God is the ultimate Judge but we have been given some guidelines as to what is permitted and what is not. If you mean that even though you know she is wrong you will not shun her and remain friend or whatever..... that's a different story. You are obligated to Judge,that is ,exercise good judgement based on your knowledge. You are not permitted to penalize sinners.
As for who can say that she is not Muslim. Base on a hypothetical situation she can be someone who no longer believes in Islam or part of it. Or as you mentioned she could just be a sinner. It all depends on what her reasons are.
The bottom line is, Islam does not permit Muslim women to marry _non_Muslims.
Posts: 637 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Dear Merima,i was talking to me actually,loll!I am not a Muslima,and for me...all my life,i made desigion for my life,by my own,do for me what the people think or discuss about me,i dont careee!Im what i am,im confident...and happy from my desigions!I havent done no wrong statements for the muslim-nonmuslim relations,duo all my respect to you! Anyway im married for egyptian man,and i know enough about the problems the muslim girls can have stepped on the cultural and religious rules! I even sorry that the women dont have the same freedom as the men about this,but i know the reason too,from islamic side! So i know what can happen if a muslim girl dare to do smth like this!God keep her! i know cases where they give up their kids,and also parents ready to kill,but leave them do as they want! I was saying that according to my understanding is that the free will shouldnt be for MEN,should be for ALL human beings,ya3any,MEN $ WOMEN! Now....TY for the wish honey! God bless you!
-------------------- "If you judge people, you have no time to love them" Posts: 1134 | From: NoNe oF uR BuSiNeS | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
quote:Originally posted by Medosa: I would like therefore to know, are there any courageous Muslim women here who are married to Non-Muslims (i.e. did not convert).
I will stick my neck out and ask Koushari , if she is?. Please forgive me if I stepped over the mark !
Wow Medosa welcome back. I've missed you loads..
I would be delighted to answer your question and I'm not afraid of telling my story. It's just that I've decided never to talk about my religious background here in Holland because of the terrible pressure on Moslims since 9/11 then the murder of Theo van Gogh and all that..
But because you are my dear Medosa, I'll answer your question.
First if all, I do not apply to the group of people you mentioned, but I had a friend who does; she went off and married a Dutchman here in Holland and is still considered "anesah!" back in Egypt. They both are not religious at all but this is not the reason they're having a shitty marriage. It's that she's a garr shakal person and is never thankful for the great man she has.
I didn't want to be her friend anymore after having to put up too many times with her vulgar language and behavior. But she thinks I'm one of those people who cannot tolerate her being a non-practicing Moslim.
Funny isn't it? When some idiots on ES think I'm Kafir (not ~4ever though!).
Anyway, when I met my husband I was already Dutch, so I married him here under the Dutch law, but I still insisted he came and asked for my hand from my family, and we also went to al-Azhar for him to convert, although I didn't think it was necessary as long as he did that verbally, moreover I was really sceptical about meeting an Azhari dickhead who would give hubby a hard time asking him if he only wanted to convert for me. But we met the most wonderful sheikh who was so kind to hubby that I burst out in tears and my husband went back home with a stack of books the sheikh gave him, and he is still reading them with much interest.
So without going into too many details, we both are practicing moslims, but we don't need any fatwas or any mass hysteria. We have our understanding for Islam that is based on OUR interpretation and no body else's.
Behind closed doors, we have a very good relationship with God. And we owe nobody no explanation!
wow my kingdom, i love your mentality. i really wish there were more egyptians like you
Posts: 4446 | From: Egyptian in Sydney | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
quote:Originally posted by Medosa: I would like therefore to know, are there any courageous Muslim women here who are married to Non-Muslims (i.e. did not convert).
I will stick my neck out and ask Koushari , if she is?. Please forgive me if I stepped over the mark !
Wow Medosa welcome back. I've missed you loads..
I would be delighted to answer your question and I'm not afraid of telling my story. It's just that I've decided never to talk about my religious background here in Holland because of the terrible pressure on Moslims since 9/11 then the murder of Theo van Gogh and all that..
But because you are my dear Medosa, I'll answer your question.
First if all, I do not apply to the group of people you mentioned, but I had a friend who does; she went off and married a Dutchman here in Holland and is still considered "anesah!" back in Egypt. They both are not religious at all but this is not the reason they're having a shitty marriage. It's that she's a garr shakal person and is never thankful for the great man she has.
I didn't want to be her friend anymore after having to put up too many times with her vulgar language and behavior. But she thinks I'm one of those people who cannot tolerate her being a non-practicing Moslim.
Funny isn't it? When some idiots on ES think I'm Kafir (not ~4ever though!).
Anyway, when I met my husband I was already Dutch, so I married him here under the Dutch law, but I still insisted he came and asked for my hand from my family, and we also went to al-Azhar for him to convert, although I didn't think it was necessary as long as he did that verbally, moreover I was really sceptical about meeting an Azhari dickhead who would give hubby a hard time asking him if he only wanted to convert for me. But we met the most wonderful sheikh who was so kind to hubby that I burst out in tears and my husband went back home with a stack of books the sheikh gave him, and he is still reading them with much interest.
So without going into too many details, we both are practicing moslims, but we don't need any fatwas or any mass hysteria. We have our understanding for Islam that is based on OUR interpretation and no body else's.
Behind closed doors, we have a very good relationship with God. And we owe nobody no explanation!
Hi Koshari
Nice to be missed, I missed talking to you too. Thanks for your candid answer. You are far from being a kafir or for the other end of the scale a "zealot". You are actually the type of person I am very comfortable with what ever your religious beliefs.
I do very much understand and respect your reasons for not wanting to discuss personal relgious matters in todays climate. It makes me appreciate it so much more that you decided nontheless to do. Thanks.
My reasons for asking were that while I am aware it is a no no religiously, I do know of a lot of women who are in such marriages, some at open about it (I consider them very courageous), and others (understandably but sadly), keep it secretive (at least as far their countries authorities are concerned).
Posts: 249 | From: usa | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Merima: I started a similar topic in the "Share your Egyptian Experiences / Love & Marriage Chat" - section. It´s not just about Muslim women marrying Non-Muslims but more general about "cross-religious couples". You can have a look at: http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001066
As far as I learned it is extremely unusual that a Muslim woman would marry a non-Muslim.
Thanks.
But this is not quite the type of discussion I wanted. I did not want a discussion about how people perceive others, and whether they consider them kaffir , heathans, devils, or satan himself. I think we all have had enough of that. However there is nothing I am afraid to stop my thread going this way too. !
What I wanted is to find out about women who have enough courage to swim against the tide and to stand tall and tell about their experience.
Posts: 249 | From: usa | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Automatic For The People:
quote:Originally posted by Medosa:
are there any courageous Muslim women here who are married to Non-Muslims (i.e. did not convert).
They would not be characterized as courageous!!!! This has nothing to do with courage it has a lot to do with disbelief.
With disbelief ?
What does that mean?
And why NOT to be characterized as courageous, is it because of the way YOU believe, regardless of the way THEY believe?.
Posts: 249 | From: usa | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Snoozin: Is it really fair to say she is not a Muslim? Wouldn't she be considered a Muslim who was committing a sin? There is a difference....
Was going to answer all the people above, but your contribution answers very eloquently.
The tragedy in some Islamic circles, is that everything is in black and white. As if those who say such a woman is not a muslim have never commited any sins and never disobeyed any of the halal/haram rules they are for ever putting out like a sword. They live like angels do not they...my arse.
For hell fire's sake you lot stop being such hypocrites !
Posts: 249 | From: usa | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by MyKingdomForATaba2Koshari:
quote:Originally posted by Snoozin: Is it really fair to say she is not a Muslim? Wouldn't she be considered a Muslim who was committing a sin? There is a difference....
You see Snoozin, in a fcuked up society like ours, everyone thinks he´s God, so everyone can decide for everyone else if they´re moslim or not.
If people in Egypt would only mind their own business, they will die of boredom!!
Koshari
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN
I love you !
Posts: 249 | From: usa | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Snoozin: Is it really fair to say she is not a Muslim? Wouldn't she be considered a Muslim who was committing a sin? There is a difference....
Who is allowed to presume to tell these women that they´re no Muslims any longer? What kind of authority would that be? This is only a matter between these women and God, and nobody else`s business.
Merima
You speak my language...
Amen....amen...amen.
Posts: 249 | From: usa | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Medosa: I would like therefore to know, are there any courageous Muslim women here who are married to Non-Muslims (i.e. did not convert).
Of course I know this can only happen outside Islamic countries.
I will stick my neck out and ask Koushari , if she is?. Please forgive me if I stepped over the mark !
Well, last summer i met this Egyptian muslim lady married to a greek. They have 3 kids and she settled there. She said she gave up her cty, family and everything for the life she has now and she d never regret it. She misses her mom, but she tries not to think of it. I will save u my comments on the topic. But yeah it happens.
I also have an Egyptian neighbour married to a Serbian guy. This story sucks, bcz , not only did he refuse to convert for the sake of their relationship. But the guy is ANTI-muslim. ANTI! Not Anti Egyptian which could be acceptable..but he's against the whole religion. He hates anything relevant to Islam and he once told me- answering my question of meeting half way-: If u think my kids will fast the silly ramadan I'd say u r crazy!!
Thank you
Sad about your 2nd. example. But it shows that we can have the full spectrum. Although I think you would agree that in a loving relationship, a man in this situation would normally appreciate his wife's sacrifice and her courage !.
Posts: 249 | From: usa | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Automatic For The People:
quote:Originally posted by Snoozin:
quote:Originally posted by Merima: Who is allowed to presume to tell these women that they´re no Muslims any longer? What kind of authority would that be? This is only a matter between these women and God, and nobody else`s business.
Personally, I agree with you 100%. I know *I* mess up all the time, and I don't want anyone telling me what I am or what I'm not. To me, God is the only judge I care about.
When someone asks what's Islam's position on Muslim woman marrying a Non-Msulim man, what will your answer be?
Your answer should be based on your knowledge of Islam. Your answer is a form of judgement on her behavior and that is quite normal. God is the ultimate Judge but we have been given some guidelines as to what is permitted and what is not. If you mean that even though you know she is wrong you will not shun her and remain friend or whatever..... that's a different story. You are obligated to Judge,that is ,exercise good judgement based on your knowledge. You are not permitted to penalize sinners.
As for who can say that she is not Muslim. Base on a hypothetical situation she can be someone who no longer believes in Islam or part of it. Or as you mentioned she could just be a sinner. It all depends on what her reasons are.
The bottom line is, Islam does not permit Muslim women to marry _non_Muslims.
NO BODY ASKED what Islams position is. We all know what it is.
So you just self appointed yourself to be its voice .
The bottom line is you did not understand the point of this thread.
Posts: 249 | From: usa | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Automatic For The People:
quote:Originally posted by Medosa:
are there any courageous Muslim women here who are married to Non-Muslims (i.e. did not convert).
They would not be characterized as courageous!!!! This has nothing to do with courage it has a lot to do with disbelief.
With disbelief ?
What does that mean?
And why NOT to be characterized as courageous, is it because of the way YOU believe, regardless of the way THEY believe?.
Medosa, you are absolutely right! These women are very brave and cuorageous because it takes a lot to stand up and swim against the current. Being in a society, in which everybody tries not to stand out, these women are admirable.
Posts: 173 | From: Germany | Registered: Nov 2005
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Well, last summer i met this Egyptian muslim lady married to a greek. They have 3 kids and she settled there. She said she gave up her cty, family and everything for the life she has now and she d never regret it. She misses her mom, but she tries not to think of it. I will save u my comments on the topic. But yeah it happens.
I also have an Egyptian neighbour married to a Serbian guy. This story sucks, bcz , not only did he refuse to convert for the sake of their relationship. But the guy is ANTI-muslim. ANTI! Not Anti Egyptian which could be acceptable..but he's against the whole religion. He hates anything relevant to Islam and he once told me- answering my question of meeting half way-: If u think my kids will fast the silly ramadan I'd say u r crazy!! [/QB][/QUOTE]
No comment about your second example! Posts: 173 | From: Germany | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Although I hoped this thread will just thraw light on this topic from the human point of view, I was not naiive enough not to know it will go into a religious discussion, with some of the usual narrowminded band putting their ores in.
It is very heartening however to see how many very openminded responses and atitudes, not only from those I knew hold such enlightened views, but also from many others I did not have the previlage of debating with before.
-------------------- Medosa Posts: 249 | From: usa | Registered: Jun 2005
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