posted
In my opinion they are. What good is in hiding it so they'd never know? We all see to a large extent what we want to see, and this is why we need to talk to each other what we see, so as to understand the complete picture. The difference is simply that I see the total picture but I'm forced to be biased to the extreme (towards liberation) simply because the rest here are biased to the extreme in the opposite direction (towards regulation, I believe)
So are you saying that when others say 'black' you automatically go for 'white'? I guess you will learn the reality of life in Egypt the hard way then. Good luck, you'll need it!
quote:Originally posted by Ann: So are you saying that when others say 'black' you automatically go for 'white'? I guess you will learn the reality of life in Egypt the hard way then. Good luck, you'll need it!
But it's the only way where there still is something to learn.. Thanks!
quote:Originally posted by nooralhaq: Surely his family would not lie for him if he was lying, right?
Assalamu alaykum nooralhaq!
Some people have come on here with tales of fake families who were in on the scam and helping the man, or that the family supported him in his orfi marriage as they were all hoping to get financial benefits from the wife. Some people have even told tales of wives being introduced as sisters to cover up the scam. It is really painful to think that people would do this, but it needs to be said to help some people to wake up and look beyond their romantic rose coloured glasses!
quote:Originally posted by newcomer: Assalamu alaykum nooralhaq!
well I am pleased that peope are FINALLY taking notice.
GIRLS WAKE UP!! YOU ARE ONE OUT OF MANY!! It is so easy for them and when you go home on the plane thinking about your habibi he is waiting for the next plame load of tourits.
In a way who can blame them as it is so easy but it is a very sad way of life and not real love!!!
Some people have come on here with tales of fake families who were in on the scam and helping the man, or that the family supported him in his orfi marriage as they were all hoping to get financial benefits from the wife. Some people have even told tales of wives being introduced as sisters to cover up the scam. It is really painful to think that people would do this, but it needs to be said to help some people to wake up and look beyond their romantic rose coloured glasses!
quote:Originally posted by thomas: well I am pleased that peope are FINALLY taking notice.
Hi thomas!
I think if you look back at the archives of this forum you will see that people were saying these sort of things well before you even came on here asking for advice before you came to Egypt. What I said wasn't new.
I am confused!! but you know this forum cracks me up. We can say so mant things aboyt these guys but people still go there and get their hearts broken.
I will never go back not even if I was paid!! I am so happy I got out of there.
cheers I think if you look back at the archives of this forum you will see that people were saying these sort of things well before you even came on here asking for advice before you came to Egypt. What I said wasn't new.
posted
So, what are the chances of an orfi marriage lasting a year if the 2 people only knew each other for 46 hours before hand?
It CAN work, my money is still in MY bank account and there is no sign of a visa application form either.
And to the topic starter, Rainbow. You are not legally married outside of Egypt. The only legally binding thing he can do without you present is to court register the Orfi papers which makes you legally married IN Egypt.
If you have any questions or want to know about the joys of the civil ceremony in Cairo, email me at mrsgad@hotmail.com
Posts: 29 | From: portsmouth, UK | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by egyptianbeast: why do u care what my opinion is r u looking to marry again ?
Marriage is tough the first time, why the hell would I want to do it again?
Sorry I am an infidel I truly believe that marriage only happens once in a lifetime. Why make a commitment before God only to break it?
Yes I would like your opinion.
From what I have seen over the last year Egy men only come to this board looking for a sucker. Are you here for the same reason? Or how long will it take for you to hook up?
Posts: 5744 | From: Minneapolis, Mn USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Chiggie: So, what are the chances of an orfi marriage lasting a year if the 2 people only knew each other for 46 hours before hand?
It CAN work, my money is still in MY bank account and there is no sign of a visa application form either.
And to the topic starter, Rainbow. You are not legally married outside of Egypt. The only legally binding thing he can do without you present is to court register the Orfi papers which makes you legally married IN Egypt.
If you have any questions or want to know about the joys of the civil ceremony in Cairo, email me at mrsgad@hotmail.com
It's really great that you're happy and your life is your business Chigs, but I think in this instance you are giving a very idealistic and false impression with your post. A year long marriage where you and your husband live under the same roof 24/7 is very different than living in different countries and visiting your husband for less than a month at a time. Again, I say that with the greatest of respects and in no way am I attacking whatever it is that makes you - specifically - happy.
But I have a hard time believing a long-distance relationship can be put on same terms as a regular one. I've never heard of long-distance marriages until I came to Egypt.
[This message has been edited by ExptinCAI (edited 13 May 2005).]
posted
Ai girlie its a toughie! Its not always bad. My fiance is great. I was a tourist, he a tour leader. HAHA! I know, but hes wonderfull and we adore each other. Advise though pls get to know each other so well before making this any more permanent. Then insist on a proper marriage with your families. Every girl deserves it xxx
quote:Originally posted by Rainbow1986: Hi,
Looking over these topics i can see this has been covered many times before. I expect many of you will read this and think i am very nieve, and maybe i am but i am clinging onto the hope that maybe i have not made a big mistake after all!
I went on holiday to Egypt a couple of months ago. Being with friends we decided to go to the local disco. I ended up talking to this lad, who did not push me to talk to him and was just friendly like you would be in the uk. After a few days we gradually started flirt with eachother etc and by the end of the holiday we spent every minute with eachother. I decided to stay on for a while and we decided to get married so i would be able to stay in a hotel with him.
This was not in Cairo so i take this not to be a proper marriage but an orfi marriage. This i have no problem with until i came back to the UK and friends started to tell me of horror stories, about money and passports etc.
I only have a photocopy of the contract which is in arabic, he has the original which is A3 and green. There have been no english copys. There is a stamp on the copys too.
I am going back soon to Sharm, where he has asked me to live with him. Friends say that the may be a dowery on the contract. What is this?? and what might it likely to be?? Also i have heard that i can not leave Egypt without his permission and that he can take my passport off me. I have also heard that he can go to Cairo and get the papers legalised through the british embassy without me so the marriage would be legal in the UK. How does he obtain a british passport?
I hope that, though there is obviuosly reason for concern, i have met a genuine guy, but can someone just help me with these questions?!?
posted
In Egypt they do....... and this piece of paper is not even recognised by every hotel.
Posts: 30135 | From: The owner of this website killed ES....... | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
The only legal marriage in Egypt is a civil ceremony performed at the local marriage court, which is in accordance with Islamic practice. Persons wishing a religious ceremony may arrange for one separately, but it is the civil ceremony that establishes the legality of the marriage. ( from the official Embassy website )
[This message has been edited by ~Sharon Stone~ (edited 23 May 2005).]
Looking over these topics i can see this has been covered many times before. I expect many of you will read this and think i am very nieve, and maybe i am but i am clinging onto the hope that maybe i have not made a big mistake after all!
I went on holiday to Egypt a couple of months ago. Being with friends we decided to go to the local disco. I ended up talking to this lad, who did not push me to talk to him and was just friendly like you would be in the uk. After a few days we gradually started flirt with eachother etc and by the end of the holiday we spent every minute with eachother. I decided to stay on for a while and we decided to get married so i would be able to stay in a hotel with him.
This was not in Cairo so i take this not to be a proper marriage but an orfi marriage. This i have no problem with until i came back to the UK and friends started to tell me of horror stories, about money and passports etc.
I only have a photocopy of the contract which is in arabic, he has the original which is A3 and green. There have been no english copys. There is a stamp on the copys too.
I am going back soon to Sharm, where he has asked me to live with him. Friends say that the may be a dowery on the contract. What is this?? and what might it likely to be?? Also i have heard that i can not leave Egypt without his permission and that he can take my passport off me. I have also heard that he can go to Cairo and get the papers legalised through the british embassy without me so the marriage would be legal in the UK. How does he obtain a british passport?
I hope that, though there is obviuosly reason for concern, i have met a genuine guy, but can someone just help me with these questions?!?
Well I have been doing research on egyptian men here in egypt for the last 10 months. For your situation regarding ofri marriage first of all there is a sever punishment taken if a women is caught with ofri marriage you can actually be imprisioned for it if it is not legally registered at the local court system. As of year 2000 ofri marriages have been accepted but the problem is that the man will not in anyway have to pay any dowery to you and can walk away at anytime. In other words his legal way to have sex with you. But if you wish to divorce him you cannot divorce him he must divorce you by saying the word twice with or without witnesses. If you don't get divorced and there are problems in the relationship he can actually have you arrested and imprisoned for up to 6 yrs. As for the issue about passport no one can do nothing to you your a foreigner in there country in year 2000 they passed a law that allows egyptian women to leave the country without a husband's permission. I want you to be careful because men here are using women to get your money and get a visa outside your country. Please be careful because I have heard of sever problems arising from this there are posting on the USA embassy and other postings on various embassies. There are 80 million egyptians living in poverty here and men between the ages of 20-35 are having difficulty finding a half decent salary in working. Some work for less than 50 dollars a month. As well you must go to the court house to marry in egypt there is no other legal marriages other than that. But be careful he could be married ufri and your become his second wife since it is legal to marry up to 4 wives in egypt. Good luck !!!!
quote:Originally posted by Rainbow1986: Hi,
Looking over these topics i can see this has been covered many times before. I expect many of you will read this and think i am very nieve, and maybe i am but i am clinging onto the hope that maybe i have not made a big mistake after all!
I went on holiday to Egypt a couple of months ago. Being with friends we decided to go to the local disco. I ended up talking to this lad, who did not push me to talk to him and was just friendly like you would be in the uk. After a few days we gradually started flirt with eachother etc and by the end of the holiday we spent every minute with eachother. I decided to stay on for a while and we decided to get married so i would be able to stay in a hotel with him.
This was not in Cairo so i take this not to be a proper marriage but an orfi marriage. This i have no problem with until i came back to the UK and friends started to tell me of horror stories, about money and passports etc.
I only have a photocopy of the contract which is in arabic, he has the original which is A3 and green. There have been no english copys. There is a stamp on the copys too.
I am going back soon to Sharm, where he has asked me to live with him. Friends say that the may be a dowery on the contract. What is this?? and what might it likely to be?? Also i have heard that i can not leave Egypt without his permission and that he can take my passport off me. I have also heard that he can go to Cairo and get the papers legalised through the british embassy without me so the marriage would be legal in the UK. How does he obtain a british passport?
I hope that, though there is obviuosly reason for concern, i have met a genuine guy, but can someone just help me with these questions?!?
Looking over these topics i can see this has been covered many times before. I expect many of you will read this and think i am very nieve, and maybe i am but i am clinging onto the hope that maybe i have not made a big mistake after all!
I went on holiday to Egypt a couple of months ago. Being with friends we decided to go to the local disco. I ended up talking to this lad, who did not push me to talk to him and was just friendly like you would be in the uk. After a few days we gradually started flirt with eachother etc and by the end of the holiday we spent every minute with eachother. I decided to stay on for a while and we decided to get married so i would be able to stay in a hotel with him.
This was not in Cairo so i take this not to be a proper marriage but an orfi marriage. This i have no problem with until i came back to the UK and friends started to tell me of horror stories, about money and passports etc.
I only have a photocopy of the contract which is in arabic, he has the original which is A3 and green. There have been no english copys. There is a stamp on the copys too.
I am going back soon to Sharm, where he has asked me to live with him. Friends say that the may be a dowery on the contract. What is this?? and what might it likely to be?? Also i have heard that i can not leave Egypt without his permission and that he can take my passport off me. I have also heard that he can go to Cairo and get the papers legalised through the british embassy without me so the marriage would be legal in the UK. How does he obtain a british passport?
I hope that, though there is obviuosly reason for concern, i have met a genuine guy, but can someone just help me with these questions?!?
posted
My dear, this getting his permission or what ever is long gone it was lik that long time ago now the women can do what so ever they want in Egypt they travel alone and without any permission from any one once they 21 years old. he should pay you a dowery or (mahr) that the the egyptian call it, also he should indicat in the marrige contract what they call (moaker) incase if he left you without your knowledg or incase if he treat you badly or he does not provide you with good life simller to the life your parents provides you before you marry him or incase he go and get marrid to anther lady what so ever so he shall pay that moaker if he is at foult, also you should indecat in the contract that he doesn't have the right to marry again while you are still marred. the buttom line is you can write any kind of conditions in the marrid contract.
quote:Originally posted by Pollina: "I am going back soon to Sharm, where he has asked me to live with him. Friends say that the may be a dowery on the contract. What is this?? and what might it likely to be?? Also i have heard that i can not leave Egypt without his permission and that he can take my passport off me. I have also heard that he can go to Cairo and get the papers legalised through the british embassy without me so the marriage would be legal in the UK. How does he obtain a british passport?"
Forget what u heard, that's crap. The only way to get married to a foreigner is the court of justice in Cairo for him. And yes, with a legal marriage he has to pay you a dowry for the case that u get divorced or that he dies etc. As the Orfi does not foresee that, it is not a legal marriage according to Egyptian law. About the passport and leaving the country: yes, in a legal marriage you would need his permission to leave Egypt but this is something that every foreigner would have in the marriage contract. Check the UK embassy in Cairo website, they normally provide info on what u should have in a marriage contract.
posted
Dear Rainbow, I don't want to sound rude but... you have made a mistake... Egyptians working at resorts are very diferent. They are very use to foreigners and they are mainly after money and sex.
After reading the replies you got, I think you know by now that you have made a mistake.,,right? Or are you now in Luxor? If you are Happy, great. If not, start looking how to secure yourself and get out from this ORFI marriage if you can.
Good Luck!
Posts: 181 | From: By the River Nile - Cairo | Registered: Jun 2005
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Why don't you get this (contract), translated first, so you know exactly what your position is.
By all accounts if it is ORFI , just tear it up, otherwise if it is what others call (proper) marriage, then seek advice from the home office (if you are UK citizen), or the equivalant in your country, before you set foot in Egypt again in case people are right and he can stop you leaving
posted
i just dont get it at all.. or maybe im too old to care.. but how in hells name do girls get themselves into such scrapes... are they gormless or what or justlack common sense...someone shoot me please... first a woman can leave egypt without her husbands consent but if shes truely married why should she want to unless its a family crisis abraod and husband is not in egypt.... 2nd.. orfi orfi orfi..no matter how u look at it, it is a fake marriage...why not marry properly. to hell with orfi... he can't get a british passport unless he has lived in the uk for three consecutive years... oh i dunno where to start here. but this makes me mad... either come and have a great vacation.. then go home knowing it was a vacatin well spent or stay in ur home country and find a god man.. if here are any that is.... ok had my rant ty..~waits for the onslaught~
Posts: 230 | From: uk/U.A.E | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pollina: "I am going back soon to Sharm, where he has asked me to live with him. Friends say that the may be a dowery on the contract. What is this?? and what might it likely to be?? Also i have heard that i can not leave Egypt without his permission and that he can take my passport off me. I have also heard that he can go to Cairo and get the papers legalised through the british embassy without me so the marriage would be legal in the UK. How does he obtain a british passport?"
Forget what u heard, that's crap. The only way to get married to a foreigner is the court of justice in Cairo for him. And yes, with a legal marriage he has to pay you a dowry for the case that u get divorced or that he dies etc. As the Orfi does not foresee that, it is not a legal marriage according to Egyptian law. About the passport and leaving the country: yes, in a legal marriage you would need his permission to leave Egypt but this is something that every foreigner would have in the marriage contract. Check the UK embassy in Cairo website, they normally provide info on what u should have in a marriage contract. [/QUOTE--------------------------- you can leave egypt without your husband permission.. and in a pinch your emabssy will help you leave the counrty and they can check themselves by your id of your citzenship if you need to leave go to your emabssy
posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by nevermind: There is a saying Tigerlily that goes: have you noticed that all your friends agree with you?
We normally do not "meet" nor retain as friends people who disagree with us or think differently. Is common sense, I guess.
So maybe you have never met an orfi person because you did not want nor looked to meet the kind of people who would consider an orfi. Egyptian society like any society is not homogenous, and levels of conservatism or modernism vary greatly, there is plenty of evidence even in this web here, and when you e.g. watch TV in Egypt, or talk with people there, then esp. for the younger happily married mixed couples very often religion is just a ritual the way it also is to the remaining people who still have anything to do with it at all, here in the west.
What you wish or believe or would like life to be is different from what it is in reality. In reality it is always a mixture of ALL our wills, like it or not, so we'd all be happier if would appreciate this variety and concern ourself with just ourself, it makes for a more peaceful and happy life for everybody. [/QUOTE------------------- an orfi is equal to something like a common law marriage.but if he was serious about you he would have insisted on you siging a real contract .. i wish you the best of luck but dont just into things to fast think you with your mind not your heart i am not trying to be rude but sometimes when we rush into things after the newness wears off we open our eyes and sometimes its to late
posted
well if you decide to marry him in egyptian court get yourself a translater that you choose not him and it will say on the contract if he already married or has been married before its a question on the marriage form and if you find in married take your ass out of there ass fast as you can never look back.. good luck to you
Posts: 72 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Chiggie: You are not legally married outside of Egypt. The only legally binding thing he can do without you present is to court register the Orfi papers which makes you legally married IN Egypt.
Chiggie, if you are still around (or anyone who knows) then one thing I have NOT understood is about this court registration of orfi papers: does it apply to egyptians only, or can my boyfriend do it as well, as a way of escaping the bureaucracy of the Mugamma building??? Just hand the paper over to a lawyer who will do it all for us?? And no one would ask if I'm married outside ewgypt or not (i'd have to present a thrice translated certificate because of course no one does it from my language into Egyptian Arabic). And I still do not know what they will say about me being a non-believer when he is Christian, seems to be no clear reglement about that in a civil case.
Or if we get married in my country? Won't Egypt recognise that??? (My understanding from somewhere is it does not.) While if you are member of international treaties and want belong in world community (or maybe not?) so how can it be???
posted
if you are not egyptian for it to be legal you must marry in civil court and take it to your embassy Posts: 72 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by bratkota: if you are not egyptian for it to be legal you must marry in civil court and take it to your embassy
Thanks b, but my embassy does not make it legal FOR EGYPT, it does not interfere in the domestic affairs of Egypt (I am glad to say :). I am interested if there is a way besides the official Cairo/Alexandria marriage to make this "orfi" paper (=unregistered marriage contract certified by the lawer only) legal FOR EGYPT and Egypt only, in the first order. ????
In my country marriage is not really required except if one wishes to gain from different family-related legislation, or for romantic reasons, but we do not find it is anyone's legal business to interfere in peoples intimate life. So I really only need the paperwork for Egypt in the first order, to stop Egypt from interfering in my relationship and trying dictate the behaviour for us (I am sorry to say).
So is the "registration of orfi paper in civil court" equal to "marriage in civil court" or isn't it???
He even wrote to this contract that he paid 400 EGP for me which gorgeous money I have not seen yet :)))) but I'll keep the demands for the rainy days I think :))))). But so it is very proper and traditional in all aspects indeed, including of course that my physical body was happily asleep in my bed 5000 km away, while I was being married. But this is also so Egyptian isn't it? The male witnesses were there and this should be enough.
The conditions you mention about paying a dowry, having two male witnesses, and the “bride” being able to be absent are all related to an Islamic marriage contract and not to a marriage contract for a Coptic Christian. I know you are talking about this in relation to an Orfi/civil arrangement, but the first question surely should be: Is this type of contract legal or not in Egypt in the first place, whether or not it is registered, for two non-Muslims, one of them a Coptic Christian?
posted
Rainbow... My husband is an Egyptian lawyer and the Orfi marriage is only useful in Egypt for exactly what you did by staying in the hotel. Nothing more ... NOthing less. It is NOT legal in your country. He can NOT hold your passport legally or keep you from leaving or entering Egypt. He can however hold any children you have together that are born in Egypt.
If you signed any papers in arabic....get them translated immediately to find out exactly what it is you signed. The dowry is "contractual" money that is used to protect the wife, due to divorce or death. It is by Islamic law, not only Egypt. If you get married legally in Egypt, you will have to go to the Foreign Ministry Affairs and a lot of translations and fees are required.
So, you are NOT legally married and he has no rights to hold you or your passport (unless he takes it from you/stolen).
Laila QUOTE]Originally posted by Rainbow1986: Hi,
Looking over these topics i can see this has been covered many times before. I expect many of you will read this and think i am very nieve, and maybe i am but i am clinging onto the hope that maybe i have not made a big mistake after all!
I went on holiday to Egypt a couple of months ago. Being with friends we decided to go to the local disco. I ended up talking to this lad, who did not push me to talk to him and was just friendly like you would be in the uk. After a few days we gradually started flirt with eachother etc and by the end of the holiday we spent every minute with eachother. I decided to stay on for a while and we decided to get married so i would be able to stay in a hotel with him.
This was not in Cairo so i take this not to be a proper marriage but an orfi marriage. This i have no problem with until i came back to the UK and friends started to tell me of horror stories, about money and passports etc.
I only have a photocopy of the contract which is in arabic, he has the original which is A3 and green. There have been no english copys. There is a stamp on the copys too.
I am going back soon to Sharm, where he has asked me to live with him. Friends say that the may be a dowery on the contract. What is this?? and what might it likely to be?? Also i have heard that i can not leave Egypt without his permission and that he can take my passport off me. I have also heard that he can go to Cairo and get the papers legalised through the british embassy without me so the marriage would be legal in the UK. How does he obtain a british passport?
I hope that, though there is obviuosly reason for concern, i have met a genuine guy, but can someone just help me with these questions?!?
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