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There's been a few discussions recently about books on here, and I know a couple of us have discussed book clubs off-line, so I was wondering whether anyone would be interested in starting an ES book club?
I figure we could choose a book a month, something to do with Egypt, whether fact or fiction, or by an Egyptian author.
We could have a single thread for it and call it something like "Book Club: August 2007: Blah blah book".
We could come up with a list of books and then vote for the one to do each month. We would have to try and find internationally available books. And they would need to be available in English translation and we'd probably need to fix up the titles a couple of months in advance to give everyone chance to track down the book.
al-tabari Member # 13941
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I've suggested this before a number of times, no one is interested.
Egypt is for the "promise" of love and sex, not for learning.
Hell when I get over there its for the Alexandrian beach and basically being roughed over by the family's little girls. I still have bruises from girls and surf!
newcomer Member # 1056
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I like the idea of this oldbag, but the difficulty with this is not just tracking down the books, but that many of the good books on Egypt are expensive for some of us living in Egypt to buy on a regular basis and not everyone has easy access to libraries. If e-books could be found that might help to make it a bit easier.
jean_bean Member # 13715
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count me in
al-tabari2 Member # 13950
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im game
desertgirl Member # 12450
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nice idea
Penny Member # 1925
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Great idea!
oldbag Member # 9889
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OK people, I reckon 6 is a party so.... what book first - what about that one Penny's mentioned in her thread about Ramadan reading? I know nothing about the author, the book or where to get it from?
Do people feel its appropriate or not to form the subject of a book club discussion? Do you feel it falls within or outside a book club relating to Egypt, Egyptian matters, etc? I'm not a muslim but I know a few of you are so I am happy to be guided by your views on this.
Newcomer - how easy is that to get from a 'living in Egypt' perspective?
EDIT: upon consideration, I think that Newcomer's right (post below) we should focus this on Egypt, not on religion so I've removed the links.
Why don't you guys suggest a few books and we can make a poll on another thread for the initial selection. we probably need to avoid AUC publications for the reason Newcomer suggests - they are about 60LE a piece which is rather expensive for people living on Egyptian salaries.
desertgirl Member # 12450
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I would like to co-operate and suggest a few titles of books but to be honest, I have never ever read a book by an Egyptian author. But I am willing to ...
I am not a muslim either, but I think it can be enriching and interesting to read e.g. about Ramadan. I do not know if it is easy to find these books here in Europe , all I know is I wanted to buy a CD of Amr Diab and this could not be found in my country. But then an Egyptian friend sent me the songs on PC, that was even better
I do think it is a nice idea to discuss books on ES. It is always good / interesting / (sometimes) surprising to read different persons' opinions.
oldbag Member # 9889
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I did just find a book listed on the Darussalam website called Understanding Ramadan.
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Personally I think it would be better to discuss books about Egypt rather than religion; it is a more neutral subject and more relevant to the board.
I have to go out for a while, but insha Allah, later I'll have a look around for some ideas when I get back, unless anyone can come up with any thing else first.
oldbag Member # 9889
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quote:Originally posted by Bastet*Loves*Ptah: It is religious?
The book club isn't intended to be religious, its intended to have a connection with Egypt of some sort, whether its the author or the subject matter (for non fiction) or the subject setting for fiction. However, we are approaching ramadan, and obviously this is a very important part of Egyptian life. This is partly why I've asked the question whether the book I've suggested is appropriate for a Book Club discussion - because that would be a religious book. EDIT and since then, I think I agree with Newcomer and maybe we should stick to Egypt matters rather than religious matters from a book club perspective.
oldbag Member # 9889
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BOOK IDEAS.
How about Naguib Mahfouz short stories? (says she with a whole book of them sitting in Cairo while she's here in London )
Penny Member # 1925
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quote:Originally posted by oldbag: BOOK IDEAS.
How about Naguib Mahfouz short stories? (says she with a whole book of them sitting in Cairo while she's here in London )
LOL I agree with you and Newcomer to keep it about books relating to Egypt rather than religion. I have some Mahfouz books but like you rather spread around places I can't get to easily LOL. Lets see what Newcomer comes up with when she gets back.
Batman, non-stop, righteous machine Member # 11915
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I recommend Books about egyptian Political stories. something about Nationalization of Suez canal then 1956 tri-aggression on egypt, portsaid crisis.
newcomer Member # 1056
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Here are a few suggestions. As you can see, I just went through an alphabetical list (from the BookSpot actually) of books on Egypt, some I have heard of, others that looked interesting. There is a mixture of novels based in Egypt, personal, perspectives, and some academic books. All of the books are theoretically available for under 100 LE in Cairo, and one of them is an e-book. The links I have given are for reviews on the books, and not necessarily the cheapest place to buy them. I don't have any particular preference, and will leave it up to you to choose:
posted
Am reading Woman of Cairo at the moment...for the second time as I read it first a long time ago before ever stepping foot in Egypt. It's a bit lightweight but the history of the British occupation and rise of Nasser is interesting.
advocate Member # 13367
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what about this one........
"I Am Happier to Know You" is a portrait of Egyptian Daily Life, The People in Egypt, Their Faith and Culture, Viewed through the Heart of a Western woman.
ISBN 0-9753054-0-9 Trade paperback - 340 pages - distributed by: New Leaf and Partners/West Book Distributing, Inc and the American University Cairo Book Store
young at heart Member # 10365
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I think it would be nice, but understand in Egypt difficult to get books.
newcomer Member # 1056
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Hi young at heart,
If you are in Cairo or a major city in Egypt, rather than a rural village or town, you will find loads of bookshops, and many that sell books in English. They are, however, relatively more expensive than in the UK or US partly because of the exchange rate, and the import costs that are added, in some cases due to the cost of translation, and also in comparison to the average local income. Considering that reading isn't as popular a hobby amongst average Egyptians as it is in the west, it is actually surprising how many bookshops there are.
young at heart Member # 10365
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ok i understand you, i think it would be nice to do this if possible, would learn lots
Almaz Member # 13525
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The bookstores of the American University in Cairo (AUC) are a one-stop shop for any and all books about Egypt. Owned and operated by the university, the stores sell all the titles that the AUC Press publishes at branches on the AUC campus and in Zamalek. They specialize in books on ancient and modern Egyptian history, Middle East studies, Islamic studies and Arabic literature in translation.
Have fun book worms
Mimmi Member # 3606
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I would like to join the book club also. I am reeding at the moment the "Yacoubian building". I have a few books relating to Egypt which I would gladly mail to somebody interested (like the fatwa and a couple of others)and than some that I would not like to get rid of which I think I would want to read again. One which I liked a lot was Women of Egypt by Jehan Sadat, it covered some history and also everyday life in Egypt and very well written. I have It is very easy to order books from amazon.com also. I have also "I Am Happier to Know You" but I did not decide yet if I want to keep it or give it away.
jean_bean Member # 13715
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I am leaning towards the book...A woman of Cairo
I might get it even if we don't choose it as a book for all of us to read.
newcomer Member # 1056
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quote:Originally posted by jean_bean: I am leaning towards the book...A woman of Cairo
I might get it even if we don't choose it as a book for all of us to read.
I agree, either that or Cairo, the City Victorious by Max Rodenbeck or Women of Egypt by Jehan Sadat.
Penny Member # 1925
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Yes I would happily read Women of Egypt by Jehan Sadat again. Think we read it at the same time last time Mimmi
pseudovellum Member # 13906
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River God by Wilbur Smith
one and only fictitious book I ever read and I have to say enjoyed I a lot.
NourHayati Member # 5507
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quote:Originally posted by pseudovellum: River God by Wilbur Smith
one and only fictitious book I ever read and I have to say enjoyed I a lot.
You should read the other two, too. "The sons of the Nile" and "The seventh scroll". They are just as good and entertaining as the first part
oldbag Member # 9889
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OK, tomorrow evening, I'll go through all the suggestions and make a poll about it. I've just read Cairo The City Victorious (finished it last week.
desertgirl Member # 12450
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ok, looking forward to your poll
oldbag Member # 9889
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Sorry chaps, big pc problems this evening, will do it tomorrow if pc behaves.
jean_bean Member # 13715
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hey Penny and Mimmi...got a stupid question. you mentioned a book by Jehan Sadat. would that be the wife of the ex. president, Sadat?
See...showing my ignorance of egyptian history again.
Mimmi Member # 3606
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quote:Originally posted by jean_bean: hey Penny and Mimmi...got a stupid question. you mentioned a book by Jehan Sadat. would that be the wife of the ex. president, Sadat?
See...showing my ignorance of egyptian history again.
Yes it is the wife of Anwar Sadat. The book was really good and well written ,nice and easy to read.
Reality_Meanie Member # 14540
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Now this is a great excerpt, hopefully ESers will order the book and dig in:
The Stereotypical Views of Egyptian Women versus Foreign Tourists
The interviews revealed that the infomratnts have contructed stereotypical views of Egyptian women. Men in Dahab believ that Egyptian women do not aks for foreplay because they are hot-blooded (damuhum sukhn) and therefore, they do not need an extended period of sexual intercourse to achieve satisfaction. In contrast, foreign women are described as cold-blooded (damuhum barid) due to their articulation of their sexual needs. Accordingly, foreign woman require longer intercourse to achieve satisfaction, which as to be preceded by an excessive foreplay. My interviewees describe how the Egyptian women who could be satisfied with five minutes of intercourse because they are always "ready" (gazheen).
This shows how Egyptian men are not aware of women's desires and confuse the expression of sexual needs with "coldness". Since Egyptian women do not express their sexual needs, men conceive them as "hot-blooded". Essam, a 35-year old man from Beheira, who has been living in Dahab for fifteen years and established various relationships with foreign women, explains that Egyptian women do not need the kind of sexual relations demanded by foreign women. Now married to and Egyptian woman from whom he has two children, he expresses his fustration with his current relationship, saying: "ONce you watch a video you can neveer go back and listen to the radio." When I showed that I did not understand his statement and solicited more clarification he said:
You cannot compare Egyptian women (radio) with foreign onces (video). There is a big difference. Egyptian women do not express their sexuality; they do not need long sexual intercourse. Maybe it is beecause of circumcision. While foreign women require longer time and ask even for more.
Essam's description shows how some men in Dahab view Egyptian women as traditional (radio) given the fact that they do not express their needs and do not show their sexual desires compaired to the modern foreign women (video) who do not only articulate their needs, but also ask fore more than what the Egyptian men normally would expect from a woman and explicitly communicate what they want in order to reach satisfaction. When I asked him if he treid to give his wife the same level of satisfaction the he sued to give foreign women and if he discussed this issue with her, he said: "No, because she doesn not need it, she never asks for it."
Mohamed also supports Essam's argument that Egyptian women do not require long sexual intercourse:
Intercourse with a foreigner differs from the one with an Egyptian. An Egyptian woman needs only five minutes, while foreign women need longer time to the level that one might get to the point of ejaculating blood, (13) which might make him weak and affect his sexual performance one day. Foreign women have cold blood (damuhum barid); therefore, they need more frequent sexual intercourses to reach satisfaction. Furthermore, they are not circumcised and this explains their need for long intercourse, in contrast to Egyptian women who need a maximum of a minute or two for satisfaction.
Mohamed's views of foreign women as cold-blooded who require a longer intercourse until the main "ejaculates blood" shows how the fear of women's sexuality is embedded in the culture and the background of men in Dahab, which is comparable to the discourses of men in San Blas in Spain studied by Brandes (1981) who believe that women's sexuality could endanger men's virility. Martin, examining the workds of nineteenth century writers and their fantasy of women, explains:
A woman would ruin a man, by her extravagant spending, , by her demands on him to spend, or, in another realm, by her excessive demands on him for sex. Losing too much sperm meant losing that which sperm was believed to manufacture. (Martin, 1992:34)
This opinion is based on men's fear of females' sexuality and their excessive sexual needs. Women are also viewed to be the consumers of men and their semen.
From this we can see that the views held by Egyptian men about Egyptian women and foreign torists are contradictory. On the one hand, foreign women are considered "cold-blooded" since they ask for foreplay and a long period of intercourse, but at the same time they are viewed as oversexed because they are not circumcised. On the other hand, the mere fact that they are circumcised, which reduces thier need for intercourse to "a minute or two." However, the common belief and justification to the practice that is mainly used to reduce women's sexual desires are limited and reduced by circumcision.
This further illustrates how men in Dahab have traditional stereotypical views of Egyptian women and exercise their masculinity over them by false perceptions. Moreover, it also reveals that the notion of masculinity takes a different level when dealing with foreign women. _______________________________________________________________________________
(13)There is a common belief among Egyptian men that an intercourse lasting a long time might lead to ejaculating blood, which would endager man's health.
Pg 61-63 from "Beach Politics: Gender and Sexuality in Dahab" Chapter five "Constructing Sexuality, Sexual Health, and Risk: Male and Female discourses in Dahab".
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