I am a new member. I am currently living in England but whilst married met a chap in Luxor 10 years ago. Now my marriage is on the rocks and this chap let me know he loves me. We spent some time together since although it is quite difficult. I would like to come over and live in Luxor. I would like my own house built and to start a coffee shop and also business diong holistic therapies. Is this possible? How much money do I need to start this? The chap I know has very little income but I hope we could survive? Please help anyone?
Perphaps you could come and live here for a few months. On your own and see if the life is what you want.
Business wise you need to do a whole heap of research and put together a properly researched business plan. Who are you target market, how would you get access to them? I suspect this could only be the tourist trade and wonder how you would get intros withour co-operation from the hotels and tour companies.
Romance wise just read a few of the stories on this site and ask yourself which category your fella falls in before you go any further.
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Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor
I had thought of trying to see what it would be like on my own.
In respect of the chap - he runs tourists on trips and has a boat on the Nile in Luxor. He has met my brother and seems very sincere. He thinks currently I don't have any money hwoever I must say he is nearly my age - I am 43 and he is 40 so there is very little difference in our ages. he ahs waited for me to decide for nearly two years now.
He does not wish me to become Muslim and knows I have my own faith.
About the business - coffee shop would be for all - tourists and locals
The other - well I feel I would have to promote myself even if I have to work in hotels to begin with. I have degree and teach meditation. I am masseuse, reflexologist, aromatherapist and Reiki practitioner - this I would think is mroe for the tourists.
Thank you for your prompt reply.
I have read very well the articles on the web site and still feel my chap is genuine.
What about his mother, does she respect you and is she happy with the idea of you as a wife to his son. Have you spent a lot of time with her. She is the most important female relationship he has and what she says goes?
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Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor
[This message has been edited by akshar (edited 25 May 2004).]
The advice you have received so far is very good. I would be rather reluctant to believe a man who says that he has loved me for 10 years despite being apart. However, my opinions aside, if you wish to set up a business in Luxor I would presume that you would seek this mans assistance in getting you set up. Would he be a partner in the business? If he is, then based on the fact that he has a tourist boat, leads me to believe that you have more to lose than him. Even if you trust him 100% engage the services of an Embassy approved lawyer to legally establish how much of the business is legally yours etc.If things do go wrong, the last thing you want is to be screwed financially. Plus if this guy is insincere, he will get the shock of his life when he realises that you have your head screwed on and are not about to be taken for a mug and have involved a lawyer!Fantastic!
I was only 25 when I married my Egyptian husband and trust him 100%. However, life taking the twists and turns that it does, if I were EVER to set up a business or build a property here I would engage a lawyer to ensure that should the relationship go sourer, I would get what is rightfully mine. It may sound heartless, but it is pratical and my husband would rather that I did this and feel secure than be offended by it.
Other option is to take a risk and not invest more than you can afford to loose (which in my case is about a fiver!)
Back to business. Luxor is saturated with various cafes, some aimed mainly at the Egyptian some tailored more for the needs of tourists, providing snacks as well as drinks and shishas. I think that if you were to embark on such a project you would need to make yours different in some way. Personally, I would stay away from the Cafe/Bizarre theme in Luxor as I don't think there is room for more of the same. I personally think that you need to spend some time in Luxor to really establish what would be an original idea here. An example is Akshars project. Rural Self catering apartments on the Westbank where the tourist gets to live alongside the local people, can travel independantly yet can still use the services of 'Flats In Luxor' for tours etc. This a very original, well planned idea. In addition, Akshar has utilised the modern method of the Internet to get to her target market which is probably why her venture has proved successful. You need to find your own niche, maybe you this could involve your aromatherapy skills etc.
In regards to your skills as a masseuse etc you probably could make a business on a freelance basis. I know that Le Meridian have their own inhouse Masseurs, the Movenpick has a British lady called Kate who does massages round the pool. Now I am not sure what her arrangement is with the Movenpick, whether she is employed by them, or she is freelance and pays them a cut of her profits but this could be worth investigating. Perhaps create a business plan and portfolio of your services and approach other hotels in Luxor (lets face it, there are plenty of them)to see if you can utilise them to get a customer base. Your services would not appeal to the majority of Luxor Egyptians so you market will be the tourists.
Those are just my thoughts
Good luck in whatever you decide to do.
All the best
PS - I have just read you comment that your husband is going through divorce but cannot afford the last part? I would investigate this further. Is this his way of remaining married to his Egyptian wife as well as marrying you? As you know Egyptian men can have more than one wife. What exactly IS this last part of the divorce that he can't afford? This confuses me. I would suggest that you ask him for more details and post his response on here. This forum is full of Egyptians who I am sure can spread some knowledge on the subject
PPS I really don't want to sound negative and really hope things work out for you but it never hurts to check these things out before getting further involved.
PPPS - I read you comment that you have told him that you have no money. I remember a comment from a British lady who has lived in Luxor for more than 12 years and is married to an Egyptian. She once said, "You can tell them you have no money, but they won't truly believe you". This is definately a true comment from a very knowlegeable lady.
[This message has been edited by claire_1237 (edited 25 May 2004).]
Thank you and to everyone who has replied - you all seem very caring indeed. I value everyone's opinion.
I have a lot to discuss with my chappie and will be telephoning him later this week to discuss all these issues. A lot of things I simply had not thought of but I must say that I would have got a lawyer involved anyway because without that, who knows what would happen. The man who says he loves me has only been interested for the last 2 years. He has told me prior to that he had no interest at all. He has not, been interested in general in women and is quite shy to be honest and this is why I find him very sincere indeed. It took him a lot to say anything to me and when he did, it was through an egyptian friend of mine. He simply was afraid and was very afraid when he met my brother. They got on very well incidentally.
About the business re my holistic therapies - I quite agree and would be able to go freelance - I am doing that here at the moment and have plenty to go at and am well qualified.
In respect of the coffee shop, my chap actually worked at one prior to him doing the job he is doing and yes, we would be undertaking this business venture together although everything I had thought would legally remain in my name - and he actually agrees with everything being in my name.
He knows me very well and is aware that I am argumentative and look after myself well and yet still agrees with my demands. He genuinely worries about me and gets many headaches when he does not hear from me.
As I know him to be shy - he tells me he has had only one girlfriend and his wife - he tells me he has had little confidence with women in general. I know from his family prior to our interest that he is shy and that is not a lie.
I have heard from many people about men marrying foreign women for money and discussed this with him. He always reassures me that he loves me very much and would do anything for me. Last year, he was very upset and said to me that he would not be able to provide for me like men in the UK and that all he has is very little but he would always do the best for me and that he would understand if I could not be with him.
He just seems really genuine and despite my fears I believe him. To top this, I visited a top psychic in the UK twice with a year between and she confirms this too. I did not ask her anything and she could describe him, what he did and where he lived and she told me he was genuine.
Thanks anyway for listening.
quote:
Originally posted by claire_1237:
PPS - I read you comment that you have told him that you have no money. I remember a comment from a British lady who has lived in Luxor for more than 12 years and is married to an Egyptian. She once said, "You can tell them you have no money, but they won't truly believe you". This is definately a true comment from a very knowlegeable lady.
I so agree because by their standards you have got money. You can afford to come to abroad on holiday. That is a hell of sight more money than most of them will ever have.
You probably also have a camera, maybe a video camera or even a digital. Then there is the mobile telephone or maybe you just have a land line but you can make international calls. You talk about your life in England, the house with multiple bedrooms and bathrooms. The car you have. Maybe you tell the story of taking your cat to the vet.
This all adds up to mega money by the standards of a man giving trips to tourists.
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Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor
Anything useful??
Thank you all. I will let you know what he says.
I will be telephoning him tomorrow but feel very down with some of the things raised on the site about how some men either mess around or marry for money. I have not believed him to be like this.
My heart is sinking because I have 100% believed him and now I feel really bad if what he has told me is untrue.
I really do love him??
Help.
Play it safe and you will lose nothing. I would view this seperation/no divorce situation as suspicious. My advice would be do not marry this guy, Orfi or otherwise, part with money or have any kind of sexual relationship with this man until he has divorced his wife. If he loves you as much as he says he will find a way to get hold of the money to finish this marriage.It sounds to me like an excuse to have two women on the go. This may not be the case, but be cautious.
Don't just give him your trust - make him earn it.
You mentioned in one of your previous posts that you would like to build a property in Luxor, this is achievable but can be full of problems. Buying land for example is a nightmare and you would need a trustworthy Egyptian to help you find the land and negotiate on price as well as ensuring that the you can legally build on the land and that it is indeed owned by the 'Seller'.No doubt you would use this gentleman to help. This could give him the chance to act as if he is helping you but making a profit behind you back. I would advise you to rent an apartment until you are confident that you wish to remain here and also to give you time to mix in the community and ascertain what direction this relationship is going in.
This is definately a situation where you need to follow your head not your heart.
This man may be genuine but do not give him the benefit of the doubt yet.
Don't rush into things. You mention that you marriage is on the rocks so I guess you are not yet divorced. Give yourself time to get over this, get used to being on you own and confident and happy with it before committing again. So far you have only been with him on holiday. Living here is not like being on holiday and it takes a lot of adjustment. You may see this whole relationship differently when you are living here. As said before COME HERE FOR YOU. Change your life for a few months, witness first hand a completely different culture, enjoy the history and the sunshine, make new friends, let this be your primary concern and let the chap take a back seat to this.
I really wish you the best of luck.
This amount of money is part of the marriage contract and therefore legally has to be paid to finalise the divorce, unless the wife, of her free will decides to forfeit it to get herself out of the marriage. But it is her legal right to claim it. So until it is paid he will remain legally married to her. At least that is my understanding of the situation. Can anyone else clarify it further?
would it be simply asking him and the people he has introduced to her as his family and them agreeing with him?
or would they say anything to show him in a good light as their prospective marriage would be a good financial investment for the whole family?
or are there English translated divorce papers?
or how would you know if the woman he has introduced as his "sister" that lives at family home is not his wife?
quote:
Originally posted by wise_woman:
I was wondering, how would a foreigner woman know if her Egyptian boyfriend was indeed divorced?would it be simply asking him and the people he has introduced to her as his family and them agreeing with him?
or would they say anything to show him in a good light as their prospective marriage would be a good financial investment for the whole family?
or are there English translated divorce papers?or how would you know if the woman he has introduced as his "sister" that lives at family home is not his wife?
What do other readers think?
I will let you know if there is anything further.
I do hope he is what he says he is - I ahve trusted him for so long and really love him very much.
As I mentioned earlier, the deferred dowry is usually a very large amount to act as a deterrent to stop the man divorcing his wife easily, so it is usually a much larger amount than he could find easily.
That amount is about 66,000 LE actually. Can anybody give an idea if that is an amount that would normally be asked for in Luxor to someone in this man's situation?
[This message has been edited by egyptianambition (edited 01 June 2004).]
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Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor
I have helped him once before with money for his boat but feel quite loathe to help him currently especially after what you have all said.
I have also - supposedly bought some land with him in Luxor - I did not pay vast amount but nevertheless don't know if I will get the money back - £4,000 I think. What do readers think?
I am feeling a bit edgy at the moment.
You have to be on your toes, and have a lawyer on your side, and make sure that your papers are all legal because you may never see the money...the idea is not how much you lost really it is the fact that you were robbed of it, and let it happen that is more serious.
Do yourself a favor, and test the chap by refusing to lend/give him any money anymore. You may find out the truth sooner than you think.
Men (!!) that have their little tantrums when women can't give/lend them money, deserve a good lesson....!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Akhenaten:
My chap was having problems with his telephone and so I bought him one and sent it to his cousin in London who was going to take it to him. He actually sent it to him and my chap has now received it at Luxor post office but they want to charge him £150 as tax to retrieve it. Of course, he is not in a particularly good mood about it and this is why he asked me for the money - I said no I have not got it and he was moody and would not speak with me.I have helped him once before with money for his boat but feel quite loathe to help him currently especially after what you have all said.
I have also - supposedly bought some land with him in Luxor - I did not pay vast amount but nevertheless don't know if I will get the money back - £4,000 I think. What do readers think?
I am feeling a bit edgy at the moment.
I was interested to hear your comment about purchasing land. Were you involved in the buying process at all? Do you know where the land is located or how big it is?
Land prices vary according to location, obviously a plot of land in Luxor centre will vary in price significantly to a plot of land on the outskirts. Some land in Luxor goes for about LE1500 for 1 SQUARE METRE.
So for £4k you would probably get a piece of land big enough to park a bicycle in Luxor. If the land is in a more rural location, you could probably get a plot big enough to park 2 bicycles and plant a few rows of cabbages. I can only speak for the East Bank as I have no idea of land price on the West Bank but would imagine that it is quite a bit cheaper in certain locations.
Plus, buying land is fraught with problems, often the 'seller' doesn't actually own the land and is only leasing it from the government or legal docs are not in order and there are disputes over ownership plus much, much more.
It has been interesting to see your situation unfold and I am glad that you have found ES for advise. Ok you have parted with some cash but if you discover the truth about him now, at least you will come out from this relationship relatively unscathed.
Best of luck.
[This message has been edited by claire_1237 (edited 04 June 2004).]
It will be interesting when I decide to next telephone him on Sunday. We will see.
It will be interesting when I decide to next telephone him on Sunday. We will see.
You must get a copy of the papers and get them translated and checked. Then make sure that they are registered with the court. If he fights about it or puts you off then you know that something is wrong. If necessary take the papers (if you get any) to Mr Gaddis the British Consul and ask his opinion. You will find him every day but Friday at the Gaddis Hotel across the road from the Isis.
There is no way that the import duty on a mobile phone would be 18,000 LE. When I last looked, new mobiles were cheaper in Luxor than in England.
I don't want to be all doom and gloom because you really can make a good life in Egypt - you just have to keep your eyes open and your purse closed. Claire is right. If he was genuine he would not ask you for money - FOR ANYTHING and would certainly not get angry if it was not forthcoming. My man used to get livid if I would not give him money - it cost me a fortune.
[This message has been edited by Luxorlover (edited 04 June 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Akhenaten:
My chap was having problems with his telephone and so I bought him one and sent it to his cousin in London who was going to take it to him. He actually sent it to him and my chap has now received it at Luxor post office but they want to charge him £150 as tax to retrieve it. Of course, he is not in a particularly good mood about it and this is why he asked me for the money - I said no I have not got it and he was moody and would not speak with me.I have helped him once before with money for his boat but feel quite loathe to help him currently especially after what you have all said.
I have also - supposedly bought some land with him in Luxor - I did not pay vast amount but nevertheless don't know if I will get the money back - £4,000 I think. What do readers think?
I am feeling a bit edgy at the moment.
Mu husband received a phone from a friend of his in the UK and it cost him 70LE to collect it. It was a Nokia that takes pictures.
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Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor
Thank you all.
Put it all out your mind for a while and just live day to day... promise you it helps.
Best wishes Penny
Egyptians do not respect men that ask for gifts, and money and act like spoiled little boys.
Asking for 'things' from people that are not family, and close friends is a sign of immaturity and disrespect. Asking for 'things ' from family and close friends is usually in emergency cases only, and everyone helps..everyone...with food and clothes and money even big sums..
It is the culture to 'accept' gifts..and we have many beggars also, unfortunately.. due to the bad economical situation and also some are professional beggars...if you know what I mean, but it is not Egyptian to take money from women. It is what we call in Egypt 'cheap', 'trashy' and 'low' to do so.
Here is a good tip: next time he asks you for money (if you insist to keep this relationship going) say this to him:
'Ma ta'amel gam'eya ya Akhy!!!''
Meaning get a group of people to chip in, get the first loan yourself and start paying...
That is also done all the time, in every class, between people to help one another from small to huge amounts...
It is a friendly loan ...rotating..and everone pays a monthly amount.
saying that to him would make him realize that you are not a fool...
Good luck...
You can also Visit http://www.youregypt.com
For more information on Egypt.
quote:
Originally posted by Akhenaten:
Thank you for that. That's exactly how I feel just now.
I worked a whole summer to get money that was needed for my business (registered in his name although I did not know it). The money was spent on his villa (which i did not know he had but which was built with my money). I had a lawyer - he now works for my partner - enough said.
My partner did not suffere pangs of guilt he was probably proud of his 'business' accumen in getting the money out of me without too much of a fight.
You have problems at home - giving him money and buying land in Luxor will only make the other matters worse. Never for a moment consider selling your house in England to settle here. Let it if you have to, but do not sell it. When your money has gone here he does not have to provide a home for you. Always have somewhere to go back to.
I know several people who sold up and built blocks of flats. They found that when the relationship went wrong they were unable to live in even one of them. It is not uncommon.
Is you are on the west bank get a lawyer from the east bank they are less likely to have family connections but you must have a lawyer.
If you do go ahead, make sure that all money transferred has some sort of receipt. Never part with large sums of cash. Transfer the money through the bank. State on the transfer what the money was for. If you can prove that you paid for the land then you would a chance of recovering it if necessary - otherwise forget it and write it off. I know from experience (painful) just what mayhem lack of receipts can cause.
If your man in genuine he would not object to any of these measures.
Getting a new mobile out of a lady-friend seems to be "step 1" with a lot of these men...I hope I'm totally wrong, but if he is trying to ask for 150 sterlings on TOP of you buying him a new phone -- then I don't have much hope for this man's character. Judge his actions, not his words. If he has a cousin who was in the UK at the same time, he must have known the prices of UK phones and that they were more expensive.
To get an idea of how much a new nokia costs: http://www.protech.com.eg/default.asp
Or ericsson (select mobiles): http://www.otlob.com/
In case his airconditioner "breaks" next, to get an idea of other prices:
http://www.megamart.com.eg
PS: I would get a lawyer from Cairo, who is quite expensive, and on your embassy's list. If you can afford the prices, I would even suggest you have a multi-national firm review the most crucial documents any local lawyer draws up for you. I can't recommend any multi-national in particular, though I am aware of baker & mckenzie (they charge the same rates in Egypt that they would in the UK or US so they're more corporate-focused.) I suggest you look at the members of the American Chamber of Commerce
http://www.amcham.org.eg/Default.asp
(go to members database / search for companies categorized as legal). Most have email addresses listed.
[This message has been edited by ExptinCAI (edited 07 June 2004).]
Thanks great link
I stupidly forgot to put airconditioning in my kitchen... and great to compare prices.
There's always something useful on ES!!
Penny
In respect of the money I have sent. I have papers to prove what I sent and also it states in writing what it is for.
Thank you.
He text me back to ask me to telephone him tonight as he is in the army area with his brother who has mental health problem but has been called up into the army.
I cannot telephone him tonight but will reply at some point by text at the moment.
Please keep me posted on how you progress. If he is a good man he will do as you say to help you with your financial problems. If not ............
quote:
Originally posted by Akhenaten:
I have just asked my chap to sell the land and to send me back the money as I am broken - let's see what happens next.He text me back to ask me to telephone him tonight as he is in the army area with his brother who has mental health problem but has been called up into the army.
I cannot telephone him tonight but will reply at some point by text at the moment.
If he is a good man he will get the money to you. I know of a man who just broke up with his Western wife and when she accused him of only being with her for the money he borrowed from all his friends (including us) in order to pay her back every penny he had ever had from her. He loved her very much and didn't want her to think bad about him.
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Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor
The only problem I forsee for you is going to be the currency exchange to send money out of Egypt that will be in LE to a European bank. Does anyone here have any advice for you ... just be prepared as it maybe his next excuse.
Good luck with what you are doing.. at least you are testing him before you get in too deep. Penny
If you don't have an account then there might be a currency problem as you are not supposed to take more than 1,000 LE in cash out of the country at the moment.
However, I was once told that due to the international banking system being as it is there can be no restrictions on money transfers. Your own bank should be able to tell you what the rules are.
I sincerely wish it for you!!!
About the land, he said he tried to get the man to give the money back but the man said that he had spent the money. He said that he took the police to him but they would do nothing but if I was there, it would be different because I am British. He has begged me to go over but I cannot just now and it could be up to a year before I can.
He does not wish me to leave and be on the streets. He has promised me he does not want my money - he wants only me. He wish he had not suggested about the land.
He has since contacted me a number of times. His father is very ill and he feels ill with the predicament.
What do you think?
He says he has a paper for the land that he will fax me a copy of asap.
quote:
Originally posted by Akhenaten:
At the moment, I do not feel in a mood to telephone him especially since he has lied about the mobile phone. He told me that they were very expensive in Egypt. What makes my blook boil is that I am in a poor situation at home as due to a serious problem with my house, I had to take on a £25,000 loan following serious problems with my insurance company following a flood. I ahve reduced it vastly to £15,000 but to top that, I have been struggling to pay as much off as I can. I have not been out with friends for a long time and cannot even afford to go to a cafe for a cup of coffee. He on the other hand, I feel is enjoying himself. He is often smoking a Shisha (hope this is spelt correctly). He knew of my problems but still asked me for a further £150 after spending £300- £400 for a new mobile for him - he told me exactly the one he wanted. I am feeling quite annoyed and upset now. When I do telephone him, he will find it not so pleasant.Thank you all.
I can't imagine this happned in sa3eed! I feel very ashamed of this so called sa3eedi egyptian.
Akhenaten, I do not know what to say in such situation like this. if there anyword that may make you feel comfortable to hear, let me know and i will say it thousands of times
Plz becareful and start looking after urself to get rid of all these problems u got in b4 anything else.
quote:
Originally posted by Akhenaten:
I had quite a lengthy talk with my chap on Friday. By the end of the conversation, he was not only distraught but also begged me to go over and see him even to the extent that I said I had no money and could not possibly go until I have paid some money off what I owe. I explained this could take some time. He suggested he pay for me to go and see him and he would also pay for us to stay somewhere. I explained that I would be thrown out at home and be left on the streets. He was not only upset but did not know where to put himself.About the land, he said he tried to get the man to give the money back but the man said that he had spent the money. He said that he took the police to him but they would do nothing but if I was there, it would be different because I am British. He has begged me to go over but I cannot just now and it could be up to a year before I can.
He does not wish me to leave and be on the streets. He has promised me he does not want my money - he wants only me. He wish he had not suggested about the land.
He has since contacted me a number of times. His father is very ill and he feels ill with the predicament.
What do you think?
He says he has a paper for the land that he will fax me a copy of asap.
I think he has realised you are not a mug. OK the guy night have spent the money but what is to stop him borrowing money on the security of the land or selling it. I know they can borrow money.
When you get the faxed copy of the papers you must get some damm good legal advice. I would suggest you get in contact with one the lawyers recommended by the British Embassy in Cairo and send it to them. Ask them what the translation is and what it actually means.
For example our flats are on land and there is a paper for this land. However we have had to get this paper changed so that it shows a 4 story block of flats and a swimming pool. This paper is then registered with the owners names. So you could have a piece of paper about land but not about the building on it. You need to get the lawyer to explain it as well as translate it
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Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor
If he does have the correct papers proving that he owns the land (which he is going to fax to you) then problem sorted - he just needs to sell it and pass you the proceeds.
In one of your previous posts, you said the following:-
Last year, he was very upset and said to me that he would not be able to provide for me like men in the UK and that all he has is very little.
In your recent post you mentioned that he is willing to pay for you to come over to Egypt. Now that would be in excess of LE3300 which by Egyptian Standards, is a large sum. Where would he get this sort of money from? Unless he would be using money that you have given him previously. And anyway, wouldn't he be better off using this LE3300 to put towards divorcing the wife that he so desperately wants to get rid of? This guy just doesn't ring true to me.
Best of luck in sorting out this land business.
You may want to use the following translator, she is approved by the British Embassy. Her fees are very reasonable and she can usually turn around translations the same day.
TASIC Mrs Mona Kamal
Translation and Simultaneous Interpretation Centre
249 Sudan St
4th Floor Apt 21
Mohandessin
Tel: 3449125
Once she has done this for you, the contract should show the plot number (you can verify its location via Luxor City Council) and also who is the current owner. You can then take the translation and original to an Approved Lawyer who can explain it to you.
[This message has been edited by claire_1237 (edited 15 June 2004).]
[This message has been edited by claire_1237 (edited 15 June 2004).]
Am I the only one that sees the signs here?????
Forget this chap and find a solution to your problem, away from any dream 'land'.
Stop believing the stories that he will be paying everything, for you...
Once you've fixed your own situation if indeed there is a land with a legal contract and your name on it, then take a lawyer...
The more you believe these stories people, the more encouraging you are for more BS from these thieves...
WAKE UP!!!!!!
ENOUGH..................................
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 15 June 2004).]
I dso not know if what he is saying is true or not - we will have to wait and see.
Salam Penny
I have been very busy these last couple of weeks as I have a new job.
Anyway, what a lot has happened so far.
First I ahd a long discussion with my chap about a lot of things I have learnt from this website. I then told him I needed the money from the land. We actually still owe a couple of thousand on this land. The man who sold it to us owns feluccas on the Nile near to the Hilton Hotel. My chap told me he had the paper of ownership and he had told the man we would not pay the last installment until I had een over.
My chap tried to reassure me he had my best interests at heart. He told me he loved me and begged me to go over and see him. He also said he had tried to get the money back but the owner had told him that he had already spent the money. My chap took the police to ask for the money to no avail. He said that if I went over, I would definitely get the money back because I was European.
He kept begging me to go over and said he loved me very much and that I could have all the money from the land including his.
A couple of days later, I spoke with him and he told me he was very ill and he had been to see the Drs who had given him some tablets. He had never had anyone in his village - or in his life that would think bad things about him and he was distraught. He said that he would like me to go over and then he would give me all the money from the land. He said he loved me but needed me to trust him and that was what had made him ill.
At the moment, he is still feeling very ill and I am waiting to see what he has to say.
About the mobile, he said he did not want anything, any money from me but had insufficient to buy a mobile and as his has not been working very well for so long, he had asked me for the telephone. Unfortunately his cousin sent him it rather than wait until he went over. This upset him.
What is your opinion of all this??
To be honest, due to how upset and ill this has made him - I feel upset I have put him through this and believe him.
At least he has not asked to pay for an operation to cure his illness. That is often the next move. I fell for it. Spent £1,000 (sterling) on one that I eventually found out was done without any charge.
Are you in a postion to be able to go back and see him? {erhpas he cannot get the money back but can he sell it on to someone else?
Congratulations on the new job. I hope that you are enjoying it. Youi sound calmer despite everything.
He actually offered to pay for my flight and accommodation when I come over and when he begged me to visit him.
that is, if you believe him.
there are certainly the types who may get so stressed that they get physically ill because at the thought of their reputation in the community or in eyes of their woman would in any way be damaged. but those types don't ask women to get them mobile phones, or borrow money. they just DON'T.
it doesn't sound like you want to see what's in front of your eyes, which makes it difficult for anyone to comment further on your situation.
If he was so eager to buy the land I am sure it is saleable and that someone else would want it too. If so, then they money would be there.
Again, if there is no money for a mobile (and they are cheaper in Egypt than in England) how can there be money for a plane ticket?
The culture is such that illness occurs in some of these men (and headaches) whenever awkwards questions are asked.
You know what he is like. You must make the decision - nobody can do it for you.
In fact he plays you like a salmon fisherman plays his catch. Letting it go for a bit so it exhausts itself and then reeling it in.
quote:
Originally posted by Akhenaten:
Hi everyone,I have been very busy these last couple of weeks as I have a new job.
Anyway, what a lot has happened so far.
First I ahd a long discussion with my chap about a lot of things I have learnt from this website. I then told him I needed the money from the land. We actually still owe a couple of thousand on this land. The man who sold it to us owns feluccas on the Nile near to the Hilton Hotel. My chap told me he had the paper of ownership and he had told the man we would not pay the last installment until I had een over.
My chap tried to reassure me he had my best interests at heart. He told me he loved me and begged me to go over and see him. He also said he had tried to get the money back but the owner had told him that he had already spent the money. My chap took the police to ask for the money to no avail. He said that if I went over, I would definitely get the money back because I was European.
He kept begging me to go over and said he loved me very much and that I could have all the money from the land including his.
A couple of days later, I spoke with him and he told me he was very ill and he had been to see the Drs who had given him some tablets. He had never had anyone in his village - or in his life that would think bad things about him and he was distraught. He said that he would like me to go over and then he would give me all the money from the land. He said he loved me but needed me to trust him and that was what had made him ill.
At the moment, he is still feeling very ill and I am waiting to see what he has to say.
About the mobile, he said he did not want anything, any money from me but had insufficient to buy a mobile and as his has not been working very well for so long, he had asked me for the telephone. Unfortunately his cousin sent him it rather than wait until he went over. This upset him.
What is your opinion of all this??To be honest, due to how upset and ill this has made him - I feel upset I have put him through this and believe him.
------------------
Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor
The way he is at the moment, I do not want him hurting if he is telling the truth to me but surely he might as well end it and tell the truth if he is a liar. Why can't they just tell the truth - trouble is would I know it, if he did???
But, I still live in Luxor - and the last year without him has been great. Free at last. He still will not let me go and begs me to take him back (he will persue me while I still have 50 piastras in the world)but I will not fall for it again.
You know this man is no good. You want to believe him and quite honestly I think that you still do. You are in financial difficulty - he is making it worse not better. Does that tell you something?
Listening to advice here is Ok but I think you are going to go round in circles. You have to decide what is best. To me it sounds very simple... if he wants you back so much let him send you the money for a plane ticket and make sure he understands he will have to pay your costs when you are there. If, and only if, he sends you the money, go back and see for yourself about the land and either sell it on or get it properly registered in your name and bring the documents back with you. Then please don't give him anymore money. From what you say he has a business there...and yes his finances must fluctuate a lot during the year so you need to be sure he is going to be able to manage his finances a bit better. ((Sorry I am laughing as I wrote that... it's the accountant in me... He is Egyptian for god sake... they live from day to day and don't look ahead...My husband never tires of calling a b***** accountant))
Then let the dust settle, you have your eyes open from all you read here... and then see how you feel before making any big decisions.
Sometimes it is best to not force the decisions... sit back and they make themselves.
Just one question and it's a big one... is there a big age gap between you.... if yes then I would take back all I say and say walk away NOW.
Good luck Penny
quote:
Originally posted by Luxorlover:
he will persue me while I still have 50 piastras in the world...
I'm sorry, I shouldn't laugh (believe me I've been there), but that was kind of funny.
quote:
Originally posted by Luxorlover:
Carleen: I have never quite decided where I should pin the 50 piastra note for the most lasting effect !!!!!!!!!! If you see what I mean. LOL
I do, I do! But as I used to tell myself a lot, "The best revenge is living well!"
Carleen: True. Living well. I still live in Luxor and my living standard irritates the hell out of him now that I have thrown him out. !! It proves that he did not get as much out of me as he thought he had. Poor lamb.
quote:
Originally posted by Luxorlover:
Carleen: I have never quite decided where I should pin the 50 piastra note for the most lasting effect !!!!!!!!!! If you see what I mean. LOL
ooooooooooooooh can we make suggestions...pleeeeeease!
quote:
Originally posted by Luxorlover:
Penny: I believe we are thinking on the same lines. would I need sellotape ??
Parcel tape would be better!!
He said he had to pay LE11,000 for customs duties on the mobile. Lie number two.
Why didn't he ask his cousin for a mobile? The one resident in London. A cousin is an acceptable lender. As Monica said, Egyptian men do NOT take money from women or from anyone unless they're close family or friends. He has two brothers you mentioned -they're the first people he'd borrow money from. Ask him about it. He can borrow your land money from them to pay you back.
Does he know you're in debt? He should offer to help you pay your debt if he cares that much.
He said he'd send you the land ownership papers with your name on it. Has he?? Lie number three.
Don't believe a word about the illness. Pretending to be ill is the universal excuse in Egypt for everything from missing appointments to... well borrowing money from gullible foreign women - funny how they never borrow from foreign male friends!
Open your eyes - if you go to him, he'll spin you more stories and work his charm on you, which you're obviously too susceptible to. Just ask for your money and take the next step when you get it back.
I am taking note of everything you all say and will not be sending any more money to him but I will wait with abated breath to see what happens next. As you say if he does want me, he will take some action. He does know I am in debt and knew from the beginning.
The mobile got me the most. I agree he should have borrowed from his brothers or his cousin.
I too feel there is something not quite right also. BUT I do want to believe him - I ahve to say because I love him.
Take care .. and take it slow
Penny
Trust your instincts - just be prepared to carry on with your life properly if it all goes pear shaped. There is also the chance that it might not.
Keep your purse closed though. In Egypt do as the Egptians do - those are the rules - do not let him push you into giving him money.
quote:
Originally posted by Penny:
Personally I do not beleive that you can judge a relationship with a man in a foreign country in quite the same way you would with a man from your own.
I agree, it's better to judge your relationship in the way it would be judged in HIS country. Many posters have already stated the things that are unacceptable in HIS country. I think you'll find the same things unacceptable in YOUR country.
I have had him put in jail three times, I have taken the business away from him and thrown him out - yet he loves me?
Did I just see a piggy flying by.
Believe it.
quote:
Originally posted by Luxorlover:
PS: Girls ----- would you believe it ??? I had a desperate phone call from my ex this morning pledging undying love and devotion and a promise to change and not "sleep with womans" anymore.I have had him put in jail three times, I have taken the business away from him and thrown him out - yet he loves me?
Did I just see a piggy flying by.
Would love to know what you said to him ???????? Think this is quite normal though they never give up..... amazing egos when you think about it.
quote:
Originally posted by Luxorlover:
It's that 50 piastra note Penny !!!
LOL! He smelled it from miles away!! 
Honestly though, I have to wonder if I wouldn't get back together with him, just to insert myself in the villa that's rightfully mine anyway. Then I'd secretly start selling off stuff...
quote:
Originally posted by Carleen:
LOL! He smelled it from miles away!!Honestly though, I have to wonder if I wouldn't get back together with him, just to insert myself in the villa that's rightfully mine anyway. Then I'd secretly start selling off stuff...
Or invite all the ES members to come and stay. That would give him a fright!
I am still waiting with abated breath.
[This message has been edited by cairoman (edited 30 June 2004).]
Is it the same thing as much older guys would go for much younger girls than themselves? I guess any society looks at old man/young girl scenario as something "normal" (It has been done for centuries). From this perspective, do you feel it is then a societal double standard in the world for that matter when man can do whatever he wants and a woman is always critisized/blamed no matter what?
It sounds to me that Akenaten desperately wants to believe this man over all the realisitic advice you guys have been giving her. Could it be that she is just deperate for love.
Word of advice, LEARN TO LOVE YOURSELF, as when you do, your standards are higher, and you will not accept anything short of unconditional love. There are several books out on learning to love yourself. As it appears that after all that Luxorlover has gone thru she came to grips with self-love which seems to make her enjoy Egypt and all it has to offer, even more. As I'm sure there is so much more to that country than the men. Yet it seems that this is what so many westerners are running there for.
Oprah did do a show lately about older women with younger men. It was nowhere near middle aged women desperate for love but actually the opposite. Middle aged women are cutting their chances in half of meeting a man if they don't look towards men of a younger age, thus giving them a larger choice of men. Of course all the guests she had on the show as examples were couples that 'looked' the same age. One of the women was 18 years older than her husband but she used to be a catwalk model and was extra beautiful and didn't look like an old crone beside her young husband.
Personally I don't know how these Egyptian Giggolos manage to catch any woman but it happens and I really do feel badly for the women. I just can't understand what is attractive about these guys, but different strokes for different folks I guess. Lucky for me I like my men old and wrinkly, makes me look younger - lol.
No, actually most of the women are not desperate for love. That is the odd thing about it. They might be desperate for a different life, but that is something quite different. An escape from the boredom of a hum-drum life has a lot to do with it.
I like the idea of asking all the ES girls to come and stay in the villa - he would wither completely (that would curtail his "sleeping with womans" activities. - anybody got any scissors. Lovely. (I am a complete bitch). Only trouble is, he is terrified of my coming near it just in case I do something awful to it so he locks the gates.
A book on self-love Homeylu - raising self-esteem - well that is an intersting prosepct !!! I wonder if it would sell ????????????????
Penny, Carleen et al, stop laughing or I shall put my pen down.
There is a double standard over women with younger men though. Cairoman is right. I see many marriages in Egypt where the man is in his mid to late 30's and the girl is 14. It's common practice to have a twenty year gap. Rich men have beautiful youing trophy wives - in Egypt, European women are rich.
I'll tell you a funny story about a mate of mine. She was in her late 50's and had a young Egyptian husband. As a treat she brought her ageing aunt to Luxor for a holiday. The aunt was 78 and crippled. My mate's husband brought a young friend with him to entertain the old lady. He was in bed with her on her second day in Luxor. When she went back to England she was so besotted with him that she sent lots of money. Her children went crazy as she was squandering their inheritance. Well, before long the old girl died and the family would not let my mate go to the funeral as they said it was all her fault. One thing I am sure about is that the old girl will have died with a smile on her face. What is the point in being the richest corpse in the graveyard?
It will be interesting to note what my ex's next move is and how long it will be before he asks me for money again. (I'll hide the 50 piastra note).
I bent over laughing thinking about "old girl dying with a smile on her face"
Which brings up another interesting thought, since European women are considered "wealthy" could there also be a twist- that the Egyptian men are aslo "victimized" by becoming so-called "boy-toys" for these "wealthy" women. Could they be viewed as "trophy" husbands in contrast to "trophy" wives. I live in the USA, and I can tell you a few stories about these "boy-toys" the women talk about in the girls locker rooms. There is an interesting book out entitled "Maintenance Man" that I found very enlightening on the subject.
All aunts welcome - and tell them to bring their crutches. (Politically incorrect to say that but I'm allowed).
Homeylu: One of my first postings here was about self-esteem in women. I asked because I had just been offered a contract a write a book about it. I accepted the contract and have to finish the book in three month's time. Not an easy task.
Glad you like my humour - it keeps me sane but so far has led to my being threatened by an idiot man and having a fatwa thrown at me by a woman on another forum. Can't please all the people all of the time.
quote:
Originally posted by Luxorlover:
I like the idea of asking all the ES girls to come and stay in the villa - he would wither completely (that would curtail his "sleeping with womans" activities. - anybody got any scissors. Lovely. (I am a complete bitch). Only trouble is, he is terrified of my coming near it just in case I do something awful to it so he locks the gates.
All we need is a day, girlfriend! You just say the word, and I'll pack my bags!
quote:
Originally posted by Luxorlover:
Glad you like my humour - it keeps me sane but so far has led to my being threatened by an idiot man and having a fatwa thrown at me by a woman on another forum. Can't please all the people all of the time.
Ok, I've been trying to mind my business, but now I have to ask - what is the "fatwa" thing about?? Care to post a link??
I must say I do enjoy your banter though. It is definitely very entertaining. As for Ophrah not sure. Is it getting to the stage that we need Jerry Springer - not that I particuarly enjoy his show. It gets a bit banal at times.
Yes I am having problems accepting that my chap may not be what he says but I am being cautious as you all suggest at the moment and not a penny will slip through my fingers just now.
I do feel I am going around in circles though. If I had not known him for 7 years before my feelings grew for him - this would never have occurred but the fact is - it has and I feel very strongly about him.
I do not want to hve to nurse a broken heart but still feel I should give him a chance.
Dont worry you are not alone.. My husband is close to my age and we are just a bit younger than you. No you are most definitely not old at 43.
One difference in my own situation to what you read a lot of here was that when I bought my property my husband helped me in every way that he could and fought many battles for me but right from the start he insited 100% it was in my name. He will to this day proudly tell anyone the flat is his wife's not his and he does not give a dam what anyone thinks. If a friend came in and wanted to smoke he would say ..no this is my wife's flat and she would not like that.He is a great joker and will often tell a waiter when he brings the bill that his wife owns a flat in Sharm so he doesn't have to pay!
Yes I have also helped him with small loans for various things ( I do mean small) but we always put it in writing and both sign it. And yes he pays it back and always very proudly.
If I come to England he will ask me to buy various things for him... loves M&S Undies.. but he insists on paying me for them.
He is not a perfect angel, there have been some very hard things we have had to work through but we always seem to get through in the end. Family, cultural differences, etc can throw all sorts of obstacles at you
Who knows from some of the stories here he could be just waiting for his chance but I love him dearly and despite getting panic attacks from some of the things I read here every now and then... I deal with my life that I am living and don't let myself judge my own situation from other people's stories.
I guess you have to know your man and build the trust and respect. Love is the easy bit.
Best wishes Penny
quote:
Originally posted by Penny:
Who knows from some of the stories here he could be just waiting for his chance but I love him dearly and despite getting panic attacks from some of the things I read here every now and then... I deal with my life that I am living and don't let myself judge my own situation from other people's stories.I guess you have to know your man and build the trust and respect. Love is the easy bit.
Ditto, especially with the panic attacks. lol Mahmoud always knows when I have read a particularly distressing story on the net and I also get a lot of emails from people as well. He jokes with me and says he has to wash my brain.
He has also been insistant about putting things in my name but also putting things in my daughters name as well. He wants her to be provided for although he knows from reading my will she gets everything of mine anyway.
Trust and respect are a huge huge huge part of my relationship with him. But this trust had to be won and it didn't come for a long time.
------------------
Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor
Mine ran rings around me for 6 years - AND I WOULD STILL DO IT AGAIN. Even now I can laugh about what happened. That says something.
This particular fatwa was about pornographers and licenscious bevahiour - somebody applied their own morals to my behaviour and considered it disgusting enough to quote the wording of a fatwa at me. It was not an Egyptian by the way.
Very simple...A fatwa - or fatwah is a ruling on a point of Islamic law that is given by a recognized authority.
The word fatwa is derived from the arabic word yafti...which means : the person that says, explains, defines, through his knowledge/experiences what has not been defined yet...
There is also a say in Egypt: when someone tries to 'appear' knowledgeable...they say: 'biyafty'...meaning he is trying to be an authority with his explanation but probably doesn't know what he is talking about....
When an Islamic authority issues a FATWA...it is a ruling.. in Salman Rushdie's case...the fatwa issued then, was to find him and kill him...
The post addressed to you, where a 'fatwa' was mentioned (on the youregypt forum) in response to one of your posts was a cut and paste piece, showing the RULING that was issued ( the fatwa) in regards with the circumstances you were describing at the time..and not a Call for your killing...
Only recognized Islamic scholars can issue a fatwa..or an Islamic ruling...
Maybe Kimo or other members could add here if they wish...
Hope this helped!
Cheers!
quote:
Originally posted by Luxorlover:
Carleen: I'm not exactly sure how a fatwa works (somebody will tell me) but it is some sort religious death threat thing that is punishment for behavour judged to be against Islam. Salman Rushdie had to have police protection after a fatwa was placed on him when he wrote 'Satanic Verses'.This particular fatwa was about pornographers and licenscious bevahiour - somebody applied their own morals to my behaviour and considered it disgusting enough to quote the wording of a fatwa at me. It was not an Egyptian by the way.
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 01 July 2004).]
I still question why my behaviour bothered anyone enough for even a cut and paste job on a fatwa concerning pornographers etc - but I don't want to get inside the dark places of a mind that thought on those lines.
I'm pleased to know that only an Islamic scholar can order me killed because of an infringement of Islamic religious law (not civil or criminal law) which was done long before I became a Moslem..
What was cut and paste, if I recall correctly was meant as an information piece..but I'll have to read it again though before I start what Egyptians would call: AFTY...meaning pretend I know, but not really know what on earth I'm discussing
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 01 July 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Luxorlover:
Carleen and Shareen: Can I add a broom handle to the peanut butter and Marmite?
Oh yeah, we could wreak a LOT of havoc with that!!
quote:
Originally posted by Luxorlover:
Carleen and Shareen: Can I add a broom handle to the peanut butter and Marmite?
You are not wasting my marmite like that, my daughter can take you on about the peanut butter as that is for her. Anyway why make is easier just use the broom handle lol
------------------
Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor
quote:
Originally posted by Luxorlover:
Carleen and Shareen: Can I add a broom handle to the peanut butter and Marmite?
You are not wasting my marmite like that, my daughter can take you on about the peanut butter as that is for her. Anyway why make is easier just use the broom handle lol
------------------
Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor
Out of interest what does lol mean??
------------------
Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor
I hopefully will be back in Egypt early next year once I get sorted out with money. I will visit your website if I need a flat to stay - which would be preferrable.
I will in the meantime keep in touch with all you wonderful people.
quote:
Originally posted by Akhenaten:
Great - now I understand all these acronyms.I hopefully will be back in Egypt early next year once I get sorted out with money. I will visit your website if I need a flat to stay - which would be preferrable.
I will in the meantime keep in touch with all you wonderful people.
Keep your chin up and I hope your next visit is a good one in the circumstances.
------------------
Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor
quote:
Originally posted by Akhenaten:
I agree - I have been to Egypt 15 or 16 times and I really love the place. To me it is more home than the house I am in - if you know what I mean.
I agree too... so why wait till next year, Egypt is waiting... your man is waiting... life is too short!!
Penny
Many thanks.
God bless.
quote:
Originally posted by akshar:
I think you need to be sure that moving to Luxor is right for you and ignore whether it will work out with this man or not.Perphaps you could come and live here for a few months. On your own and see if the life is what you want.
Business wise you need to do a whole heap of research and put together a properly researched business plan. Who are you target market, how would you get access to them? I suspect this could only be the tourist trade and wonder how you would get intros withour co-operation from the hotels and tour companies.
Romance wise just read a few of the stories on this site and ask yourself which category your fella falls in before you go any further.
Did you tae any of this advice
I am currently putting a portfolio together to visits hotels and ask them for advice. I will also ask how costly it is to rent a room, for example in one of the hotels like the Mercure or others.
On the other front, I have read some of the stories and am also taking my time before making any rash decisions.
Thank you again.
At the moment, my chap has been ill a few times but has still been in touch as usual. I have not been able to get to see him yet and will not do so until next year. Nothing new has occurred so watch this space.