Hello Friends hear this... Thats just so sad and rediculous,that i just couldnt catch myself from sharing with you guys! My husband just came home from work yesterday(we live in Bulgaria,right now,for those who dont know, So after he come back from work,after the normal news he told me smth amazing,according to our laws,acceptions and way of thinking here! Sometimes he work with a guy-lebanese,who is married for bulgarian woman as well,even they have one little girl about 6 years old! Yesterday this guy Yosif(the lebanese) told him how he want to marry for his wife best friend,and he had the totaly impudence to say this to his wife! This "weird" woman said to him: ok talk to her and if she agree,i can accept,as she is my friend and im sure she is good! But her best friend deny him as she couldnt make this to her friend,and she dont want,and she want them to stay friends as before! C`mon how is this possible!???I`m really shocked!How can a woman accept this normal,and share her husband with some woman,and even if that be her best friend,or even sister,whatever....for me this is absolutely unacceptable and crazy! Really i wonder now,how,and i really wonder how to the hell some woman can accept this for her husband!??? Is there women here with common experience,i think there must be,but i didnt readed before i suppose! So what do u think guys,how u will accept that,& whats ur opinion about it????!
Posted by TheWesternDebt2Islaam (Member # 7854) on :
Hi,
Do you mean that Yousif wanted to marry his wife's friend? As in Polgamy??
quote:Originally posted by diana_ivanova: Hello Friends hear this... Thats just so sad and rediculous,that i just couldnt catch myself from sharing with you guys! My husband just came home from work yesterday(we live in Bulgaria,right now,for those who dont know, So after he come back from work,after the normal news he told me smth amazing,according to our laws,acceptions and way of thinking here! Sometimes he work with a guy-lebanese,who is married for bulgarian woman as well,even they have one little girl about 6 years old! Yesterday this guy Yosif(the lebanese) told him how he want to marry for his wife best friend,and he had the totaly impudence to say this to his wife! This "weird" woman said to him: ok talk to her and if she agree,i can accept,as she is my friend and im sure she is good! But her best friend deny him as she couldnt make this to her friend,and she dont want,and she want them to stay friends as before! C`mon how is this possible!???I`m really shocked!How can a woman accept this normal,and share her husband with some woman,and even if that be her best friend,or even sister,whatever....for me this is absolutely unacceptable and crazy! Really i wonder now,how,and i really wonder how to the hell some woman can accept this for her husband!??? Is there women here with common experience,i think there must be,but i didnt readed before i suppose! So what do u think guys,how u will accept that,& whats ur opinion about it????!
Posted by karla (Member # 5472) on :
Certainly that it is strange the fact that a woman can share her husband with the best friend...specially when she is Bulgarian because Bulgarian people don't have such tradition. If you want hear my opinion about this... it's unacceptable.
Posted by daria1975 (Member # 6244) on :
I know it seems shocking. I can think of a million reasons why it's bad for women. In the only two instances I met an Egyptian man with two wives, I found that I did not respect their innate character. They were very deceitful -- one was married to two women and neither knew about the other. The other, kind of brutal to his two wives, just up and divorced them both so he could marry a third. So I don't have a good practical opinion of it either. I find it indefensible when it's built on deceit or brutality.
BUT! It *does* work in certain circumstances, and everyone involved seems able to lead a healthy, happy, respectable life.
It's not for me at all. I'd get jealous. I'd get disgusted thinking of my husband being intimate with another woman. Even the pettiest jealousies could erupt into all-out warfare. All of that. I'm in no way cut out for what you are describing.
But some men and women are. I think it would *demand* total honesty, respect, generosity, integrity, and above all maturity. And I will respect the decision to do this if all people involved have thoughtfully considered the situation and its potential consequences before doing it.
Posted by didi_elsayed (Member # 4763) on :
Yes Kamal, exactly,this guy yosif,he want to marry his wife best friend,which is just disgusting in my eyes! I am Bulgarian woman,well not 100% but i feel myself bulgarian,so i am,and i cant imagine even for a second that any woman can accept this,especially here,and have in mind his wife is very cute woman,yes they are older than us,he is 34,and she is as i think 32,and have one girl,how to the hell this girl will accept their relations and consider them as normal! Really i just can`t understand this!He have wonderful wife,adorable girl,and he still insist on marrying her friend!Why? I just dont get it,thats all!
Posted by didi_elsayed (Member # 4763) on :
Yes snoozin, if i talk about myself,which my husband know so well,i make this clear between us from the very beginning,that there absolutely no way that i will ever accept smth. like this! If he dont find everything that he need in my face,if i dont satisfy his needs as good wife,and he decide that we cannot continue our relationship for good,then ill not kill him..i`m normal human being and i will simply give him divorce with no complexes and problems,& will give him free the opportunity of have his happiness with other woman!If we also have kids ,ill never make them feel bad,or make them hate their dad,thats so bad action also,i know it from personal experience!But im just too jealous and respecting myself to accept this!So i prefer divorce,than humiliating like this,especially if i can give him all! So really i felt sooo sad for this woman,i just dont get why they want this,when they already have wife! Posted by daria1975 (Member # 6244) on :
quote:Originally posted by diana_ivanova: Yes snoozin, if i talk about myself,which my husband know so well,i make this clear between us from the very beginning,that there absolutely no way that i will ever accept smth. like this! If he dont find everything that he need in my face,if i dont satisfy his needs as good wife,and he decide that we cannot continue our relationship for good,then ill not kill him..i`m normal human being and i will simply give him divorce with no complexes and problems,& will give him free the opportunity of have his happiness with other woman!If we also have kids ,ill never make them feel bad,or make them hate their dad,thats so bad action also,i know it from personal experience!But im just too jealous and respecting myself to accept this!So i prefer divorce,than humiliating like this,especially if i can give him all! So really i felt sooo sad for this woman,i just dont get why they want this,when they already have wife!
I know, but at least he spoke about it with his wife first.
There are a lot of traditions around the world I don't agree with. But since I don't want to be judged when *I* do something outside the norm, I don't want to judge others. Does that makes sense? So while in theory I really dislike polygynist marriages, if some people make it work to their satisfaction and honesty and respect are there, then fine.
Now, in Bulgaria? Yeah, that's weird. Just like it's weird in the US. Many Mormons (religious group) do it all the time, but in these cases, it is almost always abusive toward the wives. Since I didn't grow up in Egypt, and don't fully understand the complexities of Egyptian culture, I would be less inclined to pass judgement there.
Posted by didi_elsayed (Member # 4763) on :
Well yeah here in Bulgaria,its absolutely unacceptable,not only in my eyes,its unacceptable for the most of the women here!Thats why it was so surprising for me that she accept this,and i really feel sick for this guy,i dont want to judje anyone,i my eyes and for me this guy is completely not ok!And his wife-double,but if they find hapinness by this way,then anyway nobody will stop them of course,its their right! He will only have the problem,that she cant be his second and legal wife,as here this is forbidden,and its notacceptable,its a crime marrying more than 1 woman!so they can probably marry in mosque,as we also dont have smth as Orfi! Posted by everyday_angel (Member # 8414) on :
quote:Originally posted by diana_ivanova: Hello Friends hear this... Thats just so sad and rediculous,that i just couldnt catch myself from sharing with you guys! My husband just came home from work yesterday(we live in Bulgaria,right now,for those who dont know, So after he come back from work,after the normal news he told me smth amazing,according to our laws,acceptions and way of thinking here! Sometimes he work with a guy-lebanese,who is married for bulgarian woman as well,even they have one little girl about 6 years old! Yesterday this guy Yosif(the lebanese) told him how he want to marry for his wife best friend,and he had the totaly impudence to say this to his wife! This "weird" woman said to him: ok talk to her and if she agree,i can accept,as she is my friend and im sure she is good! But her best friend deny him as she couldnt make this to her friend,and she dont want,and she want them to stay friends as before! C`mon how is this possible!???I`m really shocked!How can a woman accept this normal,and share her husband with some woman,and even if that be her best friend,or even sister,whatever....for me this is absolutely unacceptable and crazy! Really i wonder now,how,and i really wonder how to the hell some woman can accept this for her husband!??? Is there women here with common experience,i think there must be,but i didnt readed before i suppose! So what do u think guys,how u will accept that,& whats ur opinion about it????!
trashy men are everywhere.
Posted by TheWesternDebt2Islaam (Member # 7854) on :
It dont particularly interest me either, but I dont think it disgustin at all. Not only was it a tradition before Islaam, the religion only limted the number to four, and made it unacceptable to marry certain women, ie marraige of sisters and/or mothers, as pagan use to.
This shouln't really be a shock to anyone, it happens anyway, many people sleep with their best friends, or a few more women in marriage, or have one night stand. The only differnce is that Islam does not allow it to be done in deceit, it asks you to keep them in marriage, treat all them fairly and equally.
I think it South African site But the story is based in Egypt about Hayem Dorbek - an journalist, very interesting!!!
quote:Originally posted by diana_ivanova: Yes Kamal, exactly,this guy yosif,he want to marry his wife best friend,which is just disgusting in my eyes! I am Bulgarian woman,well not 100% but i feel myself bulgarian,so i am,and i cant imagine even for a second that any woman can accept this,especially here,and have in mind his wife is very cute woman,yes they are older than us,he is 34,and she is as i think 32,and have one girl,how to the hell this girl will accept their relations and consider them as normal! Really i just can`t understand this!He have wonderful wife,adorable girl,and he still insist on marrying her friend!Why? I just dont get it,thats all!
Why? I dont know Could it be that his wife feels that his husband has some sort of attraction to her friend, rather than her husband have an affair, and lose her best friend, lose her husband, her daugher losing a father, making financial situation, better to live in one big happy family.
If you are thinking that the man can bed two of them the same time, I assure you that is totally prohibited, infact each of them should be entitled to their own houses
I find it suprising too that a "westerner" would accept this
[This message has been edited by Kamal211 (edited 30 August 2005).]
Posted by didi_elsayed (Member # 4763) on :
ha ha ha,"only four" Kamal,very little,in this case we,who have husband,and we are the "only " wifes must be pretty happy from this kindness from their side,right? Mama mia,whats these women,whats wrong with them to accept this i dont understand!? Is this man the last on the earth or what? Pathetic,that one man can play by this way,and a woman can only stay and accept this!Shameful! And shameful ill tell u why Kamal,its shameful that they use this right from islamic point to satisfy their posh and dirty desire,to be with more women!They marry,2,3,4 wives just to satisfy themselve without they have serious reason for this,and thats sooooo silly! i feel pity for all these women which husband use this reason to marry another....without she have any fault for this desigion,and i can say that this is not right at all! And what this mean..."One wife is not enough!?"Enough for what????C`mon,some man must stop to use this as an excuse to make whatever their organs wish so bad,and listen their mind little! Im disgusted from this double standard Kamal!And id they marry coz theres a reason,that their wife cannot give them smth,and she accept this for that reason ok,but no!And u know for what i talk about very well! Posted by RaniaMe (Member # 7590) on :
I would like to connect this discussion to the one about divorced women. Because, if an Egyptian man tells his wife he's going to marry an other one, what are the wife's options? I mean, if she asks for divorce, she will be not considered anymore in her family and neighborhood, right? Thus, I think she will prefer to stay with this guy, who's taking advantage of both Islam and the Egyptian culture: he will have two wives for himself. I'm now asking Egyptian ladies: do you know some friends/relatives, etc... which fell in this case? Accepting to be the "second one" because of the social pressure?
[This message has been edited by RaniaMe (edited 30 August 2005).]
Posted by Serendipity (Member # 7211) on :
If I had a serious disease (la sama7 Allah) which made me dying. or made me trapped to my bed. Or if that I couldnt carry kids. so then maybe I would let go of my husband. I would actually divorce him so he can be free. But if there is nothing wrong with me and he just has a "desire" hell no! He will get some serious talk from me and my whoooooooooole family which consists of more then 40 ppl that would be fun!
[This message has been edited by Serendipity (edited 30 August 2005).]
Posted by TheWesternDebt2Islaam (Member # 7854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Serendipity: If I had a serious disease (la sama7 Allah) which made me dying. or made me trapped to my bed. Or if that I couldnt carry kids. so then maybe I would let go of my husband. I would actually divorce him so he can be free.
Really? I dont know if I should reply and defend polgamy marriage as Diana might get disgusted with my double standard. Whateva Islam allows is one of my standards, and what I want is another standard, so I guess I do have double standard! But I would let my own standard to overcome Islamic ruling.
Seren, I wanted to ask you, are you serious you would rather let yout husband divorce you rather than look after you, support you financailly also, and take on another wife? Especially if you were trapped oin your bed?
Diana, I completely respect your opinion that you find it "disgusting" and polgamy is not up your street. I am only outlining to you that islamic polgamy does not need to be always seen in a negative light. I doubt very much any ES user are in polgamy marriage, I would be also interested in knowing what ES women say about it.
Ofcourse there are problems with it, as with any "monogous"? marriage.
[This message has been edited by Kamal211 (edited 30 August 2005).]
Posted by Serendipity (Member # 7211) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kamal211: Really? I dont know if I should reply and defend polgamy marriage as Diana might get disgusted with my double standard. Whateva Islam allows is one of my standards, and what I want is another standard, so I guess I do have double standard! But I would let my own standard to overcome Islamic ruling.
Seren, I wanted to ask you, are you serious you would rather let yout husband divorce you rather than look after you, support you financailly also, and take on another wife? Especially if you were trapped oin your bed?
Diana, I completely respect your opinion that you find it "disgusting" and polgamy is not up your street. I am only outlining to you that islamic polgamy does not need to be always seen in a negative light. I doubt very much any ES user are in polgamy marriage, I would be also interested in knowing what ES women say about it.
Ofcourse there are problems with it, as with any "monogous"? marriage.
[This message has been edited by Kamal211 (edited 30 August 2005).]
yes I am serious about it. I dont want my husband to suffer for me. and I would rather divorce than letting him take care of me. Il hamdilla my family is big and I know if i couldnt take care of myself I have a family who will. I wouldnt like to be still married to him, because it would effect me mentally if not worsen my health. And I know me being trapped to the bed and him has to take care of me will sure effect his new marriage and himself too. So I would rather save this whole mess and get divorced. And to be honest with you, i was raised in a family where both of my parents sacrificed a lot for eachother and were close to die for each other. I would want my relationship with my husband to be like that. to sacrifice for eachother. I would stick with my husband no matter what may happen. may it be that he gets a dying sickness or get stuck to the bed. and I hope he will be doing the same. Sacrifice is not about to give up the silly things as what to wear or what to do on saturday night. the real test of sacrifice is in these things. so inshallah we will see if me and my "imaginary" husband will manage to sacrifice for eachother all the way through life
Posted by TheWesternDebt2Islaam (Member # 7854) on :
Il Hamdulilah. InshaAllah may Allah preserve your health and our health.
I was thinking more of a women who had only her husband, or where it would be very difficult for the wife's family to take her back. They are only scenario! They can happen and God provides the best solution. Thank God for Islamic equality-polgamy for some people
[Il hamdilla my family is big and I know if i couldnt take care of myself I have a family who will. [/B][/QUOTE]
Posted by didi_elsayed (Member # 4763) on :
No Kamal,excuse me but pls dont accept me wrong,it dont want to say smth abusing about you,u seems to be a good and decent man,and my last thought was to abuse,excuse me if u accept it by that way! My idea is why if u have a good,attractive wife,who try to do allt he best to make u a happy man and husband,probably a wonderful and good mother of your child(s),why u have to change her to another one,or to want to have her and other women!?I just try to get this logic!And dont forget that i discuss the case with Yousif,not about you,and not all cases! I agree with serendiity that if im not in good health,and cant bring kids to my husband there are 3 ways: 1.stay together 2.divorce him for his & my best 3.we stay married and let him to marry another one,keeping me as well These are the 3 variants from which ill probably prefer to divorce and inshallah find a man like me maybe who will be happy to share my life,or maybe adopting a child! In cases like this i can excuse the man,ok theres a reason that he can have desire to find a wife which will bring him a kids,ok! But i do not tolerate a relations that the man do this for no reason,and coz his mariage converted into a habit,and he need some freshness on it! Thats all i wanted to say!I hope u understand me,i didnt mean to be rude!
Posted by didi_elsayed (Member # 4763) on :
Ohh Kamal i just readed that u are a female,or i just thought so...if im wrong sorry,from the name i thought ure man,excuses again! Posted by Serendipity (Member # 7211) on :
uhm dear..he is a he..kamal is a man...
Posted by bob the dog (Member # 4691) on :
Someone to share the housework??? Posted by didi_elsayed (Member # 4763) on :
Ok kamal then as im sure u already want to kill me,hahaha I apologise again,plsss plsss plsss Posted by akshar (Member # 1680) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kamal211: I doubt very much any ES user are in polgamy marriage, I would be also interested in knowing what ES women say about it.
There are at least 8 women on ES who are Westerners and in a polygamous marriage. Happily!!!I know 3 of them personally and I am one myself.
When it works well it is fantastic for everyone. The family unit is extended, more people are made happy, children are secure and happy.
Of course it can work badly but that is the same as in any marriage.
In the UK mistresses are often tolerated and accepted, now that I find more weird because a mistress has no security and no position. But even in our royal family it was accepted. Queen Alexandria called King Edward's mistress, Alice Keeple to his death bed.
In France you are not considered a real man unless you have a mistress. I remember a fascinating doumentry on politions and mistress where they contrasted attitudes in american to france. To not have a mistress in France lost you votes!!!
Every culture has its solutions to the perinal problem of men wanting to stray. Islam, I think has come up with a solution that protects women and the family unit as well as laying heavy responsiblities on the man that decides to take this root.
Which is fairer?
Speaking as a woman I would prefer to know exactly who my husband is sleeping with, to have her as a friend and to know my postion is not in any way threatended by that relationship.
Posted by TheWesternDebt2Islaam (Member # 7854) on :
quote:Originally posted by diana_ivanova: Ok kamal then as im sure u already want to kill me,hahaha I apologise again,plsss plsss plsss
Hi Diana, No need to apologise for anything, your entitled to your thoughts and opinion.
Wow, MashaAllah, akshar made me speechless, she said everything I wanted to say in the last 5 post in one go.
Are these women running around with a WHOLE tree in their arms?? I can't imagine what will happen to those Egpytian men who *hoot* and *hiss* at them!
[This message has been edited by Kamal211 (edited 30 August 2005).]
Posted by sonomod (Member # 3864) on :
quote:Originally posted by akshar: There are at least 8 women on ES who are Westerners and in a polygamous marriage. Happily!!!I know 3 of them personally and I am one myself.
When it works well it is fantastic for everyone. The family unit is extended, more people are made happy, children are secure and happy.
Of course it can work badly but that is the same as in any marriage.
In the UK mistresses are often tolerated and accepted, now that I find more weird because a mistress has no security and no position. But even in our royal family it was accepted. Queen Alexandria called King Edward's mistress, Alice Keeple to his death bed.
In France you are not considered a real man unless you have a mistress. I remember a fascinating doumentry on politions and mistress where they contrasted attitudes in american to france. To not have a mistress in France lost you votes!!!
Every culture has its solutions to the perinal problem of men wanting to stray. Islam, I think has come up with a solution that protects women and the family unit as well as laying heavy responsiblities on the man that decides to take this root.
Which is fairer?
Speaking as a woman I would prefer to know exactly who my husband is sleeping with, to have her as a friend and to know my postion is not in any way threatended by that relationship.
Anyone remember that Muslimah from London who was 19, Jamillah? She was on ES, oh about a year ago.
Well, she was an Orfi wife, a second wife, and at first he promised to financially provide for her just like he provided for his first wife.
Then rent was due, and her husband told her to get a job, and a second because he needed her to help provide for his first wife.
Jamillah was childish, brash, obviously the perfect Waco Muslim of East London. Hates infidels and the whole nine yards.
Everyone on ES told her to dump him and move on. She had an extremely reasonable comeback, demanding to know why 50 something women with loads of cash in a retirement account can marry a boy half their age and make polygamy work and she couldn't.
Now diana_ivanova, we both know why her best friend is such a great friend.
And why marrying a boy who has nothing to offer but his d*ck is so attractive for soon to be retired women of the west.
Comeon, here put one and two together.
Sheesh
[This message has been edited by sonomod (edited 30 August 2005).]
Posted by daria1975 (Member # 6244) on :
quote:Originally posted by akshar: There are at least 8 women on ES who are Westerners and in a polygamous marriage. Happily!!!I know 3 of them personally and I am one myself.
When it works well it is fantastic for everyone. The family unit is extended, more people are made happy, children are secure and happy.
Of course it can work badly but that is the same as in any marriage.
In the UK mistresses are often tolerated and accepted, now that I find more weird because a mistress has no security and no position. But even in our royal family it was accepted. Queen Alexandria called King Edward's mistress, Alice Keeple to his death bed.
In France you are not considered a real man unless you have a mistress. I remember a fascinating doumentry on politions and mistress where they contrasted attitudes in american to france. To not have a mistress in France lost you votes!!!
Every culture has its solutions to the perinal problem of men wanting to stray. Islam, I think has come up with a solution that protects women and the family unit as well as laying heavy responsiblities on the man that decides to take this root.
Which is fairer?
Speaking as a woman I would prefer to know exactly who my husband is sleeping with, to have her as a friend and to know my postion is not in any way threatended by that relationship.
I admire your forthrightness and your strength. I am very happy this has worked well for you. I did know this...I think I read a thread about it a while ago, while I was just a *lurker.*
I think however it would reduce *me* to a basket case.
(Oh, as if I'm not there already).
But how about for you, did you answer 7aya's question on the other thread? Would you want or accept *two* husbands if the roles were reversed????
Posted by akshar (Member # 1680) on :
I think the main reason an older woman can make it work is because life has taught her things are not perfect. It is about compremise and give and take. As you described that 19 year old she saw everything as black and white and when you are older you realise it is all shades of grey. It makes the older woman more restful and less demanding. Actually she quite likes a night off when she can slap on a face mask and do her nails and have control of the remote
As for money marriages in Egypt tend to be a lot more practical than in the West. Love only marriages are great but often the practicalities of real life drive a wedge between people. I beleive the Koran says that you should marry a women for 4 reasons money being one but piety being the best. So she can look like the back of a bus but she is a good Muslim and will bring that into your household then that is fine. So again Islam is being realistic about motives for getting married.
Now Inshahallah you will find an Egyptian husband that can combine his reasons for marriage and yours. So if he loves you and you love him and practical issues are resolved as well then you have a winner.
Posted by akshar (Member # 1680) on :
quote:Originally posted by Snoozin: I admire your forthrightness and your strength. I am very happy this has worked well for you. I did know this...I think I read a thread about it a while ago, while I was just a *lurker.*
I think however it would reduce *me* to a basket case.
(Oh, as if I'm not there already).
I have never made a secret of it as I am not ashamed of my life choices but because mentioning it often leads to attacks I don't always mention that I have personally done it.
quote:Originally posted by Snoozin: But how about for you, did you answer 7aya's question on the other thread? Would you want or accept *two* husbands if the roles were reversed????
lol no way, men are too high maintenance, two sets of smellie socks yuck
[This message has been edited by akshar (edited 30 August 2005).]
Posted by sonomod (Member # 3864) on :
Age doesn't equal wisdom.
Some people remain as ignorant, as idiotic and as desperate as they were in their 20s.
Posted by Alana (Member # 6453) on :
Diana,
How are you?
My opinion that is just an excuse like"having your cake and eat it to" type scenario!
If he truly loves and respects his wife, he wouldn't even suggest such a thing or lower himself to that level.
When your heart feels for one it shouldn't yearn for another.
Sharing more than one in my opinion is a disgrace, any woman that agrees to that is very insecure and a needy personality.
What is it with some of the ladies ?? I have to laugh...Can't a man pick up after himself and help out! I know my father always did and had great respect for my mother.
You are his wife not slave! Two-way street help each other out. Not a job or designated duty when you become a wife! Wow Stepford Wives still exist! LOL
If they can accept more than one wife for their husband they should join all together then...really they have no respect for themselves, so they can't put down the porno industry then , they are allowing it right under there own roof.
What kind of message are you sending your children?? That sure doesn't show self-respect! It is a marriage not a "harem" wake-up ladies. Diana your friend should say bye- bye and let him go to her! They seem like they deserve each other.
Posted by loborules (Member # 5457) on :
Some women, will accept it, because they are weak. Their husbands bully them, and its just better to go along with them.
My wonderful ex, when his wife was dying of cancer, he was having an affair, and moved her into their house. Nice huh ... I have 4 words ... nice going mother f******.
King of the asswipes....
Posted by Corvinous (Member # 6578) on :
quote:Originally posted by Serendipity: If I had a serious disease (la sama7 Allah) which made me dying. or made me trapped to my bed. Or if that I couldnt carry kids. so then maybe I would let go of my husband. I would actually divorce him so he can be free. But if there is nothing wrong with me and he just has a "desire" hell no! He will get some serious talk from me and my whoooooooooole family which consists of more then 40 ppl that would be fun!
[This message has been edited by Serendipity (edited 30 August 2005).]
I don't hate families for nothing, a wife with a big family makes a war of every lil dispute, specially that when she is arab. arab females are renowned for their closeed minds n love for sarcastic lifecourse. Damn women of this type. A free blooded man would remain obsessed with them in his life n would be more feeling like a prisoner than a man living with his wife. I am not hating you arab gurls for just your physical ugliness and so temporary fake beauty.
Posted by Serendipity (Member # 7211) on :
quote:Originally posted by Corvinous: I don't hate families for nothing, a wife with a big family makes a war of every lil dispute, specially that when she is arab. arab females are renowned for their closeed minds n love for sarcastic lifecourse. Damn women of this type. A free blooded man would remain obsessed with them in his life n would be more feeling like a prisoner than a man living with his wife. I am not hating you arab gurls for just your physical ugliness and so temporary fake beauty.
from hating egyptian girls to hating arab girls.. I gotta get credit for that! Sorry sorsor to put you in the same boat as me When you live in a deserted country as norway. Where your neighbour still dont know your name after 6 years. and after 14 years old friendship your still just a friend friend not a "real" friend. and when you say hi to a stranger they start running for their lives. Thats when you understand that you dont have any choice than to be stuck with your family But we still have boarders and lines that we cant cross with eachother to keep away from problems..(spare you the headaches).
btw Kamal, if something happens and my family cant help me. I still would divorce. Set him free better. And I manage always to take care of myself. so no problem there.
Posted by Dudda (Member # 8705) on :
quote:Originally posted by Serendipity: from hating egyptian girls to hating arab girls.. I gotta get credit for that! Sorry sorsor to put you in the same boat as me When you live in a deserted country as norway. Where your neighbour still dont know your name after 6 years. and after 14 years old friendship your still just a friend friend not a "real" friend. and when you say hi to a stranger they start running for their lives. Thats when you understand that you dont have any choice than to be stuck with your family But we still have boarders and lines that we cant cross with eachother to keep away from problems..(spare you the headaches).
btw Kamal, if something happens and my family cant help me. I still would divorce. Set him free better. And I manage always to take care of myself. so no problem there.
seren, corv can say what ever he feels wrong about Arab girls and to say there's nothing wrong about them is not an objective view of things. and corv, we have our ups and downs the same like you Arab men.
[This message has been edited by doudd (edited 31 August 2005).]
Posted by Serendipity (Member # 7211) on :
quote:Originally posted by doudd: seren, corv can say what ever he feels wrong about Arab girls and to say there's nothing wrong about them is not an objective view of things. and corv, we have our ups and downs the same like Arab men.
Good morning doudd how are you feeling? I know, but I would love to switch places with him. where he could live in Norway and me in Egypt. That would be really great! You see the social person is a dying race here in Norway
Posted by Dudda (Member # 8705) on :
quote:Originally posted by doudd: seren, corv can say what ever he feels wrong about Arab girls and to say there's nothing wrong about them is not an objective view of things. and corv, we have our ups and downs the same like you Arab men.
Good morning seren I m fine alhamdolelah I understand u mean family wise, care and warm feelings which distinguish our Arab countries and sure Arab abroad miss all of that. But you know if we think fairly and regardless that we are Arab women who corv often comments and he may be crude somehow in his discuss but he is better than those who see faults, ignore them then say every thing is OK !
[This message has been edited by doudd (edited 31 August 2005).]
Posted by TheWesternDebt2Islaam (Member # 7854) on :
No-one answered this.
quote:Originally posted by akshar:
Which is fairer?
Speaking as a woman I would prefer to know exactly who my husband is sleeping with, to have her as a friend and to know my postion is not in any way threatended by that relationship.
Posted by TheWesternDebt2Islaam (Member # 7854) on :
No-one answered this.
quote:Originally posted by akshar:
Which is fairer?
Speaking as a woman I would prefer to know exactly who my husband is sleeping with, to have her as a friend and to know my postion is not in any way threatended by that relationship.
Posted by sonomod (Member # 3864) on :
quote:Originally posted by Corvinous: I don't hate families for nothing, a wife with a big family makes a war of every lil dispute, specially that when she is arab. arab females are renowned for their closeed minds n love for sarcastic lifecourse. Damn women of this type. A free blooded man would remain obsessed with them in his life n would be more feeling like a prisoner than a man living with his wife. I am not hating you arab gurls for just your physical ugliness and so temporary fake beauty.
What Corvinous doesn't say here is how cheap he is and doesn't want to pay the normal customary costs of marriage in the Egyptian/Arab world.
Those costs are there because Egyptian/Arab men have a tendancy not to spend a dime after marriage on anyone but himself.
And due to the fact that the standard for an eligible bachelor is so low in the region, and the standard for a eligible bachelorette is so high (because its obvious the women are worth more) the only way of scaring off a suitor is to get extremely rigid and demanding.
Sorry, Corvinous, your comments only show you want the opposite. You want a cheap 'western' wife, one that will be forced to meet your rigid impossible expectations you set for Arab/Egyptian women. So basically what you are saying is that you have such a low regard for women in general. And you don't want a wife you can respect, you want a sugar mama.
And the way you elquently expressed yourself should encourage the flow of older ladies with a stiff divorce settlement or/and retirement account gushing into your yahoo messenger.
You off to a good start, Corvinous. Good luck with the act of cutting off your balls and handing them to an old goat.
God, I love ES!
Posted by sonomod (Member # 3864) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kamal211: No-one answered this.
Yeah, its called lowered expectations.
Posted by TheWesternDebt2Islaam (Member # 7854) on :
quote:Originally posted by sonomod: Yeah, its called lowered expectations.
Posted by Leila (Member # 8539) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kamal211: No-one answered this.
Personally i could not accept this at all unless it solved a VERY important problem we were facing. I see Pologomy as the exception – it is a permission not an injunction. If it was the only soloution to a major problem then yes but not as a right for men to have more wives for nothing more than their own pleasure.. taking more than one wife is actually a great burden on the man as he will be held accountable to God if he does not treat them all equally. Also if you do not want this it can be written into the marriage contract. BTW under Islamic law does the wife have to agree to allow her husband to take another wife?
Posted by yazid904 (Member # 7708) on :
diana,
It is a cultural thing but usually if the wife agrees, then it is usually OK (as a rule) and more so depending on the higher social status of the husband (implicit or explicit). Out of respect, the man tells the wife and this usually depends of place in the community /'tribe'.
a. If the woman has no education, then she just puts up with it.
b. If she is wise but uneducated but know the milieu, then the second wife shares duties with her and she can have a few days off!
c. If the woman (wife is smart), she will have a place to stay, enjoy the company of women without being the only object of attention. She will also get benefits of shopping, going to Europe (social standing), etc.
d. If she is astute, she learns the rules of the game and if she is kicked out, she is both smart and wise. It will be a blessing and she may forge her own way!
Posted by sonomod (Member # 3864) on :
quote:Originally posted by yazid904: diana,
It is a cultural thing but usually if the wife agrees, then it is usually OK (as a rule) and more so depending on the higher social status of the husband (implicit or explicit). Out of respect, the man tells the wife and this usually depends of place in the community /'tribe'.
a. If the woman has no education, then she just puts up with it.
b. If she is wise but uneducated but know the milieu, then the second wife shares duties with her and she can have a few days off!
c. If the woman (wife is smart), she will have a place to stay, enjoy the company of women without being the only object of attention. She will also get benefits of shopping, going to Europe (social standing), etc.
d. If she is astute, she learns the rules of the game and if she is kicked out, she is both smart and wise. It will be a blessing and she may forge her own way!
Your ABCD choices sound patronizing and cruel.
Posted by daria1975 (Member # 6244) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kamal211: No-one answered this.
Fairer? I would rather have a monogamous relationship with my husband than have *any* relationship with a man at all. I've been alone for 20 years. I can handle it. I *can't* handle unfaithfulness, known or unknown.
This is my personal preference. I don't mind or care what others do.
Posted by didi_elsayed (Member # 4763) on :
Ok Kmamal,i excused about my mistake with ur name,im sorry again!
quote:Originally posted by Kamal211: No-one answered this.
Posted by didi_elsayed (Member # 4763) on :
Jane,untill now i always liked ur posts,but this is the first where i just cant agree,but i accept your opinion and respect it,as all of us have the freedom to choose,right!?I only respect the fact that u accept this normal,and none of this worry you From my side i dont agree by no way! 1.I dont agree that one relation like this will make me happy at all,even right the opposite! I cant imagine even for a second that my husband can dare to ask me for smth like this!In my eyes the fact that she is his "wife",call her second, doesn`t exist! 2.Did he respect me enough,and love me enough to ask me for something like this?I think he dont if he dare to disrespect me by this way! 3.If we have kids,this is awful exam for her(him),what a wonderful exam,her dad have 2 wifes,and 100000 brothers or sisters,thank you for this kind of happiness in my family!!!! I`m oldfashioned then,prefer to have only 1 real family,not to mess between other one! 4.As last and most important i can say that this relation will make me and my family absolutely sad,its unthinkable even to think for case like this for myself! Thx God till now im healthy,think that im enough for my husband,and he loves and respect me,so i can thank god only for giving me this relation and husband! In case that one day he is not happy with me,not satisfied,or i cant bring him kids,im who will leave this relation! But still i wish happiness to the women who accept this!
if we talk about is it fair....i can ask,Whats his work to look sex or anything out,when he can have excellent one in his home?! I dont want to know whith who my husband sleep,since i am the woman that he sleep with!When he ruin this trust,i prefer that he leave my life and go to sleep with everyone he want to!The fair *Jane* is the FaItHfUlNeSs,the TrUsT and the ReAl LoVe,thats the fair,not to know which other woman share your husband`s bed! But i wish you happinessin ur marriage im happy if this marriage and relation satisfy ur needs!
quote:Originally posted by akshar: There are at least 8 women on ES who are Westerners and in a polygamous marriage. Happily!!!I know 3 of them personally and I am one myself.
When it works well it is fantastic for everyone. The family unit is extended, more people are made happy, children are secure and happy.
Of course it can work badly but that is the same as in any marriage.
root.
Which is fairer?
Speaking as a woman I would prefer to know exactly who my husband is sleeping with, to have her as a friend and to know my postion is not in any way threatended by that relationship.
Posted by akshar (Member # 1680) on :
quote:Originally posted by diana_ivanova: Jane,untill now i always liked ur posts,but this is the first where i just cant agree,but i accept your opinion and respect it,as all of us have the freedom to choose,right!?
thanks Diana that is what a forum should be about.
I will put another scenario to you, you marry a man and he has children from his first marriage. Do you love them because they are his family or reject them because they are not yours.
You see by stepping out of the box and freeing our mind from Western conventions we can have similar scenario with wives. They can become true sisters instead of rivals and competators. You can giggle together.
As I said I think in your country it is not right because the laws of your land don't recognise it. That is the whole point it is not some clandestine bit of nooky but an honurable and legal marriage.
I know other ladies on ES who are in this situation and very content. And this is not for a few months but years and years. It is not for all but then marriage is not for all.
and thank you for listening with courtsy
Posted by sonomod (Member # 3864) on :
quote:Originally posted by akshar:
I will put another scenario to you, you marry a man and he has children from his first marriage. Do you love them because they are his family or reject them because they are not yours.
You see by stepping out of the box and freeing our mind from Western conventions we can have similar scenario with wives. They can become true sisters instead of rivals and competators. You can giggle together.
First point, how many blended families are there in Egypt?
I remember an English woman who lives in Luxor remarking the fact that women when they remarry, divorced or widowed are expected to leave their children behind with former in-laws and the new wife of daddy must accept his children. So I wonder how you came to this conclusion above.
Secondly, do you and your cowife speak the same language? Have you become proficient in Arabi? Has either your husband or your cowife truely become proficient in English? Or do you have a third party translating all this gushy cowife conversation?
Posted by TheWesternDebt2Islaam (Member # 7854) on :
Hi again,
There seems to be some confusion here. With the principle of polgamy and its actual practice at these modern times.
What seems to be happening here is that when people hear the word polgamy, many people hold the opinion that polgamy is for men who are greedy and want to satisfy some sexual desires and are unfaithful, etc etc. This is a very narrowminded view and one-sided.
For some people it may be to satisfy their desires, [some who unfortunaly will do it in the name of Islam]. There are many many types of polgamy around the world - the Utah Polgamy where they marry sisters?, the African Pologamy where women run around with trees in their arms. Whatever their reason/principle for polgamy may be, so be it.
Islamic polgamy does not see it in a perspective that the men need more wives to satisfy him, etc. Infact our Prophet sws married into polgamy, many of whom where widowed, or divorced, many, if not all , im not sure, were not virgins[except Aisha ra]. But out of sympathy to look after these women, etc. So this cleary shows the Islamic principle behind Islamic pologamy.
And subhanAllah, is it a coincidence that women out number men by 4:1 [well approx. so I hear] and that Islam limits it to 4 women. Imagine every women getting married to one woman. It will leave a surplus of women, to do what?Go into prostition, have affairs? and so on. [Also one of the Signs of Day of Judgement is the approx ratio of women to men = 20:1]
I think people should put aside their "disgust" and one-sided opinion of polgamy aside and accept the fact that the Islamic polgamy is not made for greedy sexual men. This is not fair not only on men, but also their wives, who are judged like this: "Oh I feel sorry for you, Oh poor girl, Oh she is forced". What if they are enjoying a happy life in a polgamous relationship, InshaAllah they are.
But unless people know some people in such relationship and have been abused and so on, then please talk about it if you wish, but no need to assume what it will be like for the rest of them.
The link sent up there, showing how an Egyptian WOMEN was promoting polgamy, and also positive reply from akshar about real polgamy life, surely if at least SOME women can think the Islamic polgamy is like this, there must be some good in it for the women as well as the men! [ http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/News/0,,2-11-1447_1759565,00.html ]
As I always say, Islam is a perfect, simple harmonious system of life, if man and women can follow its simple teaching and guidance they are and will be among the successful, InshaAllah.
Instead of people voicing their opinion on why they wouldnt want to do polgamy, I think it would be more educational for people to learn the benefits of polgamy, Im sure there are many because this Ancient practice has still survived to this day, even in Bulgaria![or Belgium, Diana from] And it wernt the man who forced his wife! Amazing dont you think
quote:Originally posted by akshar: There are at least 8 women on ES who are Westerners and in a polygamous marriage. Happily!!!I know 3 of them personally and I am one myself.
When it works well it is fantastic for everyone. The family unit is extended, more people are made happy, children are secure and happy.
Of course it can work badly but that is the same as in any marriage.
In the UK mistresses are often tolerated and accepted, now that I find more weird because a mistress has no security and no position. But even in our royal family it was accepted. Queen Alexandria called King Edward's mistress, Alice Keeple to his death bed.
In France you are not considered a real man unless you have a mistress. I remember a fascinating doumentry on politions and mistress where they contrasted attitudes in american to france. To not have a mistress in France lost you votes!!!
Every culture has its solutions to the perinal problem of men wanting to stray. Islam, I think has come up with a solution that protects women and the family unit as well as laying heavy responsiblities on the man that decides to take this root.
Which is fairer?
Speaking as a woman I would prefer to know exactly who my husband is sleeping with, to have her as a friend and to know my postion is not in any way threatended by that relationship.
[This message has been edited by Kamal211 (edited 01 September 2005).]
Posted by Alana (Member # 6453) on :
Kamal211,
That is what an open forum is all about to express your opinions.
Why should others stop expressing opinions because you condone this behavior??
It is the man who in this situation actually benefits from this type of practice.
You would be better to get an animal, and even they don't deserve that kind of treatment! Take to the desert with the sheep
Remember books are written by man, this isn't a fact from God. You are interpreting it as such!
It is an excuse for most men to"sow their wild oats" See if the "grass is truly greener on the other side"
If you have a stable relationship and love and respect for each other,you believe in marriage vows, it would not even enter ones mind.
Women that practice this usually suffer low self-esteem, to accept and live in a life-style as this.
Quit making excuses for men wanting sexual relations with more than one woman.
They're not doing the woman a favor, their satisfying a sick obsession!( and fantasy)
Posted by TheWesternDebt2Islaam (Member # 7854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Alana:
It is the man who in this situation actually benefits from this type of practice.
You would be better to get an animal, and even they don't deserve that kind of treatment!
It is an excuse for most men to"sow their wild oats" See if the "grass is truly greener on the other side"
Women that practice this usually suffer low self-esteem, to accept and live in a life-style as this.
..... men wanting sexual relations with more than one woman.
They're not doing the woman a favor, their satisfying a sick obsession!( and fantasy)
What a load of narrow-minded trash, not worth replying or arguing!
You have every right to express your opinion, but if they as trashy as this one dont expect any replies from me, and if you going to refer to my post, then read it before you do.
Posted by Troubles101 (Member # 4543) on :
quote:Originally posted by Leila: Personally i could not accept this at all unless it solved a VERY important problem we were facing. I see Pologomy as the exception – it is a permission not an injunction. If it was the only soloution to a major problem then yes but not as a right for men to have more wives for nothing more than their own pleasure.. taking more than one wife is actually a great burden on the man as he will be held accountable to God if he does not treat them all equally. Also if you do not want this it can be written into the marriage contract. BTW under Islamic law does the wife have to agree to allow her husband to take another wife?
Under Islamic Shari'ah first wife doesn't have to agree. speaking of Islamic law this can be possible and I think is being applied in some countries such as Pakistan (If I remember well)
Personally I don't think such a law is reasonable as women are more likly to have negative feelings about polygyny and having them deciding the whole matter wont make it better specially when such a marriage can solve very important problems as you said. I believe nowdays where many women have negative reaction to polygyny unlike before and where many men misuse this permission, it should be put in the hands on Islamic court who can decide each case.
[This message has been edited by Troubles101 (edited 31 August 2005).]
Posted by didi_elsayed (Member # 4763) on :
Jane* please dont accept my post as judjing you,or some personal attack,i really respect you,and never tried to abuse or try to hurt anyone here,i just tried to discuss what worry me ! I understand the scenario which u write down,and ty for trying to explain it to me,& i agree that this is a good way out for many cases,where the man can keep 2 women,who with God will can be also friends,all this depends on their characters,understandings,acceptions,ideas,......but its too rare to find it!The most women will find hard to keep friendship,when they share the same man,anyway its hard!But i know many cases too like yours and i can confess successful like yours,which shows its not impossible! I just admit that for my case,i just cant accept it,i`m afraid that maybe im egoistical for my love,and its not right me to jusdje anyone,and God knows i didnt mean to judje you and any other lady who decide this,so pls Jane excuse me if i said smth rude to you! All that i think for this was from the surprise,here is not normal for me to hear cases like this everyday,and especially when this man dont make it from nice purpose and im sorry for her,but if she accept it,who am i to mess into this! Thanks for all that you gave your opinions here,this helps me also to realise little better some things for myself! And the others who think i was harsh,im sorry! Posted by daria1975 (Member # 6244) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kamal211: Hi again,
There seems to be some confusion here. With the principle of polgamy and its actual practice at these modern times.
What seems to be happening here is that when people hear the word polgamy, many people hold the opinion that polgamy is for men who are greedy and want to satisfy some sexual desires and are unfaithful, etc etc. This is a very narrowminded view and one-sided.
Kamal,
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you. I have great respect for Islam and understand the underlying reason for polygamy as a way of protecting women, often widows, who had no other means to take care of themselves. That this right should be used judiciously and as fairly and compassionately as possible.
But I found it very interesting that the books my fiance's mother gave me about Islam *specifically* said a man is weak and wants to have sex with other women, and Islam provides for this weakness by permitting up to four wives. And that this is better for the first wife because it would be a shame for her husband to merely divorce her to marry the other woman.
I find it odd that a book on Islam, written in English, given to me by an Egyptian woman who wants me to convert, would try to justify polygamy in this regard. ????
Now, the book was written in 1970 so that might have something to do with it. I personally prefer to read about polygamy during the Prophet Muhammad's (pbuh) time and how it was a compassionate act -- and not a lurid act to fulfill sexual desires.
Posted by TheWesternDebt2Islaam (Member # 7854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Snoozin: I find it odd that a book on Islam, written in English, given to me by an Egyptian woman who wants me to convert, would try to justify polygamy in this regard. ????
Now, the book was written in 1970 so that might have something to do with it. I personally prefer to read about polygamy during the Prophet Muhammad's (pbuh) time and how it was a compassionate act -- and not a lurid act to fulfill sexual desires.
Hi,
As times goes on, and Islam expands, many new groups/ideology/sect starts to appear, they give their own intreputations and meaning.
I agree with you, stick with what the Prophet sws did, to his teaching, his beliefs, and his ways, the sunnah.
The religion has been perfected with the Quran and Sunnah of our Prophet sws and his righteous companions. Those who seek and have the pure intention for the true guidance in this life, I am sure that God will guide their hearts and away from the evil-doers, InshaAllah
Posted by Serendipity (Member # 7211) on :
quote:Originally posted by Snoozin:
Now, the book was written in 1970 so that might have something to do with it. I personally prefer to read about polygamy during the Prophet Muhammad's (pbuh) time and how it was a compassionate act -- and not a lurid act to fulfill sexual desires.
Totally agree with you there snoozin
Posted by loborules (Member # 5457) on :
quote:Originally posted by akshar: There are at least 8 women on ES who are Westerners and in a polygamous marriage. Happily!!!I know 3 of them personally and I am one myself.
When it works well it is fantastic for everyone. The family unit is extended, more people are made happy, children are secure and happy.
Of course it can work badly but that is the same as in any marriage.
In the UK mistresses are often tolerated and accepted, now that I find more weird because a mistress has no security and no position. But even in our royal family it was accepted. Queen Alexandria called King Edward's mistress, Alice Keeple to his death bed.
In France you are not considered a real man unless you have a mistress. I remember a fascinating doumentry on politions and mistress where they contrasted attitudes in american to france. To not have a mistress in France lost you votes!!!
Every culture has its solutions to the perinal problem of men wanting to stray. Islam, I think has come up with a solution that protects women and the family unit as well as laying heavy responsiblities on the man that decides to take this root.
Which is fairer?
Speaking as a woman I would prefer to know exactly who my husband is sleeping with, to have her as a friend and to know my postion is not in any way threatended by that relationship.
Knowing your husband is banging some chick (wife) makes it all hunky dory? Letting men, and providing an example to male children, that they can do whatever they please to women ... cool
Given the Muslim Mind, it's contempt for women, it's "family values" (patriarchial male chauvinism), it can be said with all honesty, that in essence a Muslim home is a broken home,even if Dad is physically present. Father is the rooster in the hen house, but no more than that. The only example a Muslim man sets for his sons is that of the tyrant, the absent (emotionally) landlord, who demands unquestioned obedience hmmm Promise Keepers keep coming to mind as well. Dysfunctional kids are the fruit of polygamy. How can normal, sane children spring from this unnatural, immoral perversion, where women are brood mares and fathers are studs. If that wasn't bad enough, the neurotic offspring are indoctrinated in hate schools from the age of six to eighteen, and then either rush off to the most pressing jihad, or attend a university to get a doctorate in hate. The girls are forced into marriage at very young ages, usually to much older male relatives. Children with absent fathers and twenty five or thirty siblings could hardly feel "special" to their parents. They have no respect for their lonely, frustrated, abandoned mothers and hardly even know their fathers because they're always absent, making the rounds from wife to wife. This entire culture is a psychotic aberration. There is so much wrong with it, nothing short of erasing the whole mess and starting over would improve it. http://www.taemag.com/issues/articleID.18649/article_detail.asp Posted by kafir4 ever (Member # 8785) on :
quote:Originally posted by askar: In the UK mistresses are often tolerated and accepted, now that I find more weird because a mistress has no security and no position. But even in our royal family it was accepted. Queen Alexandria called King Edward's mistress, Alice Keeple to his death bed.
Two wrongs don't make a right. Who is saying it is right for men to have mistresses? Again what twisted morality is this? In the west people understand that this is wrong, whereas in Islam, what we call male adultery in the is perfectly legal and condoned (halal). But it is a capital offense for a woman to do the same(haram). On one hand it legalises for men promiscuity, even rape, on the other hand they feel moral by punishing the women. On one hand, westerners are morally corrupt and hedonistic..on the other hand hedonism is the Muslim's ultimate reward in heaven. Isn't that the ultimate irony? If Muslims actually believe that hedonism in all its forms is so evil, then why is hedonism the Muslim's ultimate reward in heaven? No take that back I won't even call it irony. Rather it demonstrates the complete spiritual bankruptcy of Islam. This is akin to telling a christian to turn the other cheek and practice pacifism in this life because his reward in heaven will be the chance to take revenge upon his enemies and and murder folks with impunity. Break out the AK-47's! And you folks want to lecture westerners about morality.. Islam is with sheer ridicule. Western culture is superior to that of Islam because it allows us to experiment, explore, make mistakes, and learn from those mistakes. Islam offers no such freedom. Like the veil, said to be a sign of a woman's modesty but really only a reflection of her slavish obedience to doctrine and fear of bringing the wrath of her male master (father, husband) down on her. The height of hypocricy..
Posted by TheWesternDebt2Islaam (Member # 7854) on :
Dont you ever stop? Are you not getting the message? Stop wasting your time. Maybe it not a waste of time for you, this is as productive time gets for you ?
I dont know what you been writing, infact I just continue to scroll down whenever I see your posts, becuase you been postin a few times, and no-one replied, it seems most people in the board dont take you very seriouly!
You remind me of "starjade", another user. If you have a serious issue of Islaam or Polgamy or anything else, your welcome to start a thread in the Religion board. Many peoples' dislike to Islaam is only becuase of a few misunderstaning, Im sure if we work together we can make you a much happier and less frustrated man/woman.
Just like starjade, not only did he did he contradict himself and confuse me, but I am stil waiting for some "hard" evidence! I think he is too confused himself to reply.
Posted by didi_elsayed (Member # 4763) on :
I didnt posted this topic to receive attacks on Islam,or any other religion,is this all needed? Kamal just ignore as i do,i dont even try to read it! Posted by Morgan (Member # 6662) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kamal211:
Dont you ever stop? Are you not getting the message? Stop wasting your time. Maybe it not a waste of time for you, this is as productive time gets for you ?
I dont know what you been writing, infact I just continue to scroll down whenever I see your posts, becuase you been postin a few times, and no-one replied, it seems most people in the board dont take you very seriouly!
You remind me of "starjade", another user. If you have a serious issue of Islaam or Polgamy or anything else, your welcome to start a thread in the Religion board. Many peoples' dislike to Islaam is only becuase of a few misunderstaning, Im sure if we work together we can make you a much happier and less frustrated man/woman.
Just like starjade, not only did he did he contradict himself and confuse me, but I am stil waiting for some "hard" evidence! I think he is too confused himself to reply.
**** OF URSELF DUMMIE
Posted by Morgan (Member # 6662) on :
quote:Originally posted by diana_ivanova: I didnt posted this topic to receive attacks on Islam,or any other religion,is this all needed? Kamal just ignore as i do,i dont even try to read it!
IDIOT U BORED PPL TOO TEARS
Posted by didi_elsayed (Member # 4763) on :
Morgan get lost with your silly comments!Look in the mirror to see the real idiot! Dont answer me,ure looser!
quote:Originally posted by Morgan: IDIOT U BORED PPL TOO TEARS
Posted by Alana (Member # 6453) on :
Kafir, I may not agree with all your posts, but this last one you wrote , you said it like it is!
I don't go for all the name-calling back and forth, waste of time and immaturity on people's part. Lack of respect to others.
It is an open forum as I mentioned, but when some don't like to hear the hard honest facts they will attack verbally and be very nasty.
Everything is always blamed on western society sometimes, used as an excuse for the problems they bring on themselves.
I still believe no where has God condoned this sort of behavior or practice, it is man who desires this, and puts it into play and action. But they quote God , to make themself look and feel better about it.
They should take responsibility for their own infidelities, and actions.
Posted by hassancheb (Member # 4863) on :
quote:Originally posted by Troubles101:
Under Islamic Shari'ah first wife doesn't have to agree. speaking of Islamic law this can be possible and I think is being applied in some countries such as Pakistan (If I remember well)
Personally I don't think such a law is reasonable as women are more likly to have negative feelings about polygyny and having them deciding the whole matter wont make it better specially when such a marriage can solve very important problems as you said. I believe nowdays where many women have negative reaction to polygyny unlike before and where many men misuse this permission, it should be put in the hands on Islamic court who can decide each case.
[This message has been edited by Troubles101 (edited 31 August 2005).]
The wife does have a choice as to rather she believes a polygamous marrige would be fair to her, and many scholars are supporting this law be passed in several countries giving her the right to disagree and divorce, using the following surahs to support their decision.
Surah 4:3 ….if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.
Surah 4:128 -4:130
If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best; Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire. But if they disagree (and must part), Allah will provide abundance for all from His all-reaching bounty.
Posted by Corvinous (Member # 6578) on :
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[This message has been edited by Corvinous (edited 07 September 2005).]
Posted by Troubles101 (Member # 4543) on :
quote:Originally posted by hassancheb: The wife does have a choice as to rather she believes a polygamous marrige would be fair to her, and many scholars are supporting this law be passed in several countries giving her the right to disagree and divorce, using the following surahs to support their decision.
Surah 4:3 ….if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.
Surah 4:128 -4:130
If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best; Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire. But if they disagree (and must part), Allah will provide abundance for all from His all-reaching bounty.
hassan (why that name, BTW?) You're right that women in Islam have the right to divorce through Khul' but as I said they don't have the right to allow or disallow man from taking a second wife, in another words the second marriage is valid whether first wife agree or not. Of course first wife can have divorce but as you said it's better done when she finds that her husband is misuseing this option in away that's affecting the family badly, in other words, husband and wife should seek the best for the family and fellow muslims no matter what option they will go for as long as it's legal.
hear this...
