posted
From those of you who are married, (be it Westerners, Europeans, or Natives):
· How was it adjusting to married life in a society where women are expected to be so submissive? · What one thing was the hardest to adjust to? · What piece of advice do you have for your fellow sisters beginning the same road? · Was building a friendship with local Egyptian women hard or near impossible? · Which of you decided to convert to Islam and why? · Did you decide to start working while there? If so, how did the workforce welcome you? If not, is it because your husband did not let you? · How are your children being raised there?
Posts: 285 | From: egypt | Registered: Apr 2006
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One piece of advice..make him THINK he's the boss. When he tells you to do or not doing something agree with him then do what you want anyways. My SIL gave me that one.
Posts: 2735 | From: my desk | Registered: Jul 2005
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Yep..so Egyptian men are really no different than any other man. You don't have to be "submissive" to marry an Egyptian man. That's a total stereotype about Egyptian or mid eastern women. I didn't see any "submissive" women in Egypt.
About converting to Islam..don't do it because of a man. Do it because you truly feel it inside you. If you do it for a man you may end up resenting it. Many Muslim men marry Christians or Jews and the women never convert. Just be aware that any children you will have inshallah will be Muslim. Get used to the idea. If you have a problem with this either don't have children or don't marry a Muslim man.
Posts: 2735 | From: my desk | Registered: Jul 2005
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No, I hear ya. I just keeping hearing that the "woman must obey her husband" in front of everyone out there...ya dee da da da.
As for converting, no, I don't see that in my near future. I do not believe in organized religion and my spiritual relationship is between myself and God. I would never convert for a man.
Just be aware that any children you will have inshallah will be Muslim. Get used to the idea. If you have a problem with this either don't have children or don't marry a Muslim man.
dont the kids get a say?
talk about oppressive!
Posts: 5642 | From: hellonearth.myfastforum.org Forum Index | Registered: Feb 2006
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Oh yeah they expect you to listen to their "word"..that's my husband's way of saying you must obey me. Yeah honey..you know where you can stick your "word"? I say, yes habibi, and turn around and do what I want anyways. As long as what you want to do is within limits what's the big deal? If you want to keep peace take my advice...let him look like the "man" in front of his family and never argue or raise your voice in front of ppl. If you need to fight or argue do it behind closed doors. It's a big no no to challenge your husband in front of ppl.
Posts: 2735 | From: my desk | Registered: Jul 2005
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About converting to Islam..don't do it because of a man. Do it because you truly feel it inside you. If you do it for a man you may end up resenting it.
so we must feel it in our hearts and truly want and believe in islam... but our children will just be told to believe in and be a muslim...
isnt that a touch hypocritical?
Posts: 5642 | From: hellonearth.myfastforum.org Forum Index | Registered: Feb 2006
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They get a say when they're old enough to make that kind of decision for themselves. I think most of us were raised with some sort of organized religion. I was raised Catholic but converted when I was 20. My family isn't hip on it but I'm a grown asss woman who can make her own choices. I'm not saying I'd be thrilled if my kids converted but when they're grown and out of my house I don't really have much say so anymore now do I?
quote:Originally posted by Charm El Feikh?:
quote:Originally posted by Madame M.:
Just be aware that any children you will have inshallah will be Muslim. Get used to the idea. If you have a problem with this either don't have children or don't marry a Muslim man.
posted
Weren't you told as a child to belong to some sort of religion? I mean haven't we all really? Unless we were raised by free spirited folks. I guess I'm old fashioned in my thinking sometimes. As a Muslim I must raise my children as Muslims. As a child of a Muslim man the children must be raised as a Muslim. It's all part of the religion. If you don't like it..don't become Muslim. Other than that I can't help ya out.
Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
To you be your Way, and to me mine.
quote:Originally posted by Charm El Feikh?:
quote:Originally posted by Madame M.:
About converting to Islam..don't do it because of a man. Do it because you truly feel it inside you. If you do it for a man you may end up resenting it.
so we must feel it in our hearts and truly want and believe in islam... but our children will just be told to believe in and be a muslim...
posted
Oh definitely but as you know Americans in general don't get overly offended by fighting in public. We may not like it and it may embarrass us but we get over it. Egyptian/Arab men (the ones I know), however, don't get over it so easy and it could cause a HUGE problem.
quote:Originally posted by NYtoPortSaid: yes....that was his advice to me as well. However, I find that applies anywhere, don't you think?
quote:Originally posted by NYtoPortSaid: From those of you who are married, (be it Westerners, Europeans, or Natives):
· How was it adjusting to married life in a society where women are expected to be so submissive? · What one thing was the hardest to adjust to? · What piece of advice do you have for your fellow sisters beginning the same road? · Was building a friendship with local Egyptian women hard or near impossible? · Which of you decided to convert to Islam and why? · Did you decide to start working while there? If so, how did the workforce welcome you? If not, is it because your husband did not let you? · How are your children being raised there?
* Not too difficult * family's so nosey and coming unannounced * Go slowly, keep your mouth shut and your eyes opened until you begin to get used to how things work. Get out alone sometimes to get used to doing things by yourself, if you don't venture out eventually you will be afraid to do so. Learn small phrases in Arabic to get by. * Building relationships with local Egyptian women is fairly easy, most of them are so happy to know a foreigner they are eager. But forming real friendships, you will probably have an easier time with an educated Egyptian woman, especially since they will probably be the ones to speak English. * I converted to Islam, but that was before I ever met my husband. It's much easier, I find, to practice islam here than in the states, but that's just my opinion. I converted because Islam just made sense to me, I couldn't be happier. * I choose not to work here, mostly because of the language barrier and also because when we have children (inshallah) I want to be home with them. I don't think my husband would forbid me to work, but there really isn't a need. * No kids yet, I'll let you know when the time comes!
I wish you so much luck, please keep in touch and let us know when you marry.
Posts: 13440 | Registered: Feb 2006
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Listen to Smuckers..she knows what she's talking about. She's one of the few success stories of marriage between Egyptian and Westerner. Posts: 2735 | From: my desk | Registered: Jul 2005
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Hi to everybody, I just don't understand why if you're married a Muslim man and you are not a Muslim,you have to raised your kids as a Muslim.Ok,I can understand that he is a Muslim so he loves to raised his kids this way.But the wife is christian and she also loves her religion and she also loves to raised her kids in her own way. What is that exactly mean? She must to obey to her husband keeping her marriage with no problems... Is that right?
Posts: 979 | From: Another world | Registered: May 2006
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I am only newly married and live in uk, I am christian and my husband is muslim, i have a child already and we were both christned together only a few years ago, I agree that religion is a personal relationship between yourself and God and I am currently thinking about converting,my hubby hasnt put pressure on me at all, we discussed if we have more kids them being raised muslim and i'm ok with that. I started reading about islam as soon as i met my hubby, and i just feel as though its where I want to be, but slowly, when i'm informed enough. His friends and family have been lovely, have had no problems and i love being a part of it, there is much more care and closeness in their circle than my old one, i often felt lonely before, but dont now, even so early on. submissive? i dont think so, my hubby likes to have 'man' roles but i actually like that, he would prefer me not to work, i am studying anyway, but before i met him i was studying, working and raising my child so to be honest i was glad to give something up!! lol I actually like having different roles, i like to take care of him and my son and he likes to take care of me and i really couldnt be happier. I think you are right to ask all these questions and figure out before you get married whether you are both looking for the same type of relationship, how does he feel about the things you have asked about? I wouldnt like people popping into my house whenever, but neither would my hubby, but our friends love us going over all the time! so people within the same culture or religion are still gonna have different ideas, likes , dislikes etc...what has he said he expects, wants etc?
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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i forgot to say...when the Imam came to our house before we married to tell us what was expected of us both in an islamic marriage he pressed too hard on my kitchen table and i have the words OBEY etched on my table forever!!!! lol he kept going over it as he was emphasising that this was my main 'duty' in return for the long list of my husbands...lol
...hmmm, do you think he did it on purpose so i never forget? lol
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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Since I am getting married in October to the boyfriend we have been talking lately about having a child. I about fell off my bed when he told me that if we have a boy he is going to be raised Muslim NO MATTER WHAT I have to say. I said what abt the girl. You can have control of her until she is a bit older but then I am going to take over. He wants us to fly over to Egypt when she is able to marry and find her a good man to marry over there. I was NO WAY a pre arranged marriage esp. since we are going to be living in the States. He then said this is the way it is gonna be if you like it or not!! I was so hoping I would get pregnant on our wedding night but now I want to wait !! This is very scary to me.
Posts: 68 | From: San Antonio Texas | Registered: Apr 2006
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wow, i bet it is...have there been any other things he has said that have surprised you or just this? (although its big enough) what are you going to do, even if you wait, will it change how he feels and what happens?
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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It is not going to change how we feel. It just a scary thought for me. I want us to have some time for us before I have a baby. We have only "been together" for about 4 weeks before he had to leave. The other thing he told me was if I wanted to change (I am Catholic) I could he was not going to MAKE ME !! I don't know if he will change his views or not after he lives in the States for a few years. I am going to assume no however I did agree with him I do want our daughter to be a virgin when she is married. I so wish I would have waited ..In some ways I love the moral concept Egypt has. The man asking for the womans hand in marriage to the father. How romantic !! This does not happen in the States anymore that I know of. And family is everything. Here in the States it is becoming very rare anymore. I think our lives are getting to hetic and we can't slow down to stop for a couple of minutes. How sad for us !!
Posts: 68 | From: San Antonio Texas | Registered: Apr 2006
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yes, i agree, its the same in the uk too, and i like the sex as part of family/love emphasis in islam.. why dont you read up about islam, when i was going to marry my husband i read alot on the net and was really surprised about women in islam, its really positive, and i had worked with muslim women for three years prior to this and had no way near the amount of knowledge i have gained in the past 3 months. If you did raise your children muslim she would still get a choice on who she marries if you are both agreed on that, so its not all bad. He is probably saying he wont 'make you' convert cos that is what he has been told, he is not allowed to influence your decision to revert (he might want you too though). It is hard for him really cos he has to raise his children muslim and he has to 'not' convert you so i think they must struggle with that..of course if he loves you he wants to see you in heaven, and his kids, so i can see why they find it hard...if i revert, i would love for my son to aswell, its natural...P.s i made my husband swear to keep me not the virgins...lol
so it might not all be as scary as it sounds (have the 'would you ever have another wife?' conversation before your married too!!!!)
If you read up then you will be able to separate the fears from the facts and you might feel better.
hope you clear it up, it must be horrible for you to have this dilemma now as your due to get married soon x
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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We already had the "other" wife talk. He told me that he was going to have two other wives in addition to me and they will serve us. I said like f@*@*ing hell you are?!! You are going to be living in the United States this is NOT ALLOWED. He started laughing at me and Babe, I would not marry another girl besides you!! I have a strange feeling that I am going to have a hard enough time just keeping up with YOU !! Much less anyone else!! I said Were you kidding he said Yes I wanted to see your reaction. I guess it's because his former girlfriend was not jealous and he wants me to be jealous. I told him when he comes over we are all kissy and huggy people in my circle of friends. He said Point Blank that is gonna stop. NO ONE else is going to kiss my wife I said why he said I am already jealous enough don't make it worse it's my character to be this way!! Ok I know now I am going to have some getting use to again. My ex husband was just like him. Oh my Egyptian man I love him to death!! But we have both agreed to talk and adapt to each other's ways on most areas. He said I just want you to be happy for the rest of your life. This is why I met you and you will be my wife.
Posts: 68 | From: San Antonio Texas | Registered: Apr 2006
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I've started to read about Islam since I've meet my egyptian boyfriend.And I'm still doing the same,because I have so many questions and I know that is not enough.I just have to read and read and read. I was never thinking that I would be interest so much about Islam. But anyway there is really many things I like but much more I don't like. It's not like I don't like it more I can't accept it.I'm from different culture and I just can't agree with some stuff about Islam and which making me really crazy when I imagine I should live like that or my kids. My boyfriend is very nice person and he really loves me but I know that in the future he'll try to make it his way and I'm pretty sure there will be many things I will not like.Because I use to like my life and I don't see any problem in that.Maybe I'll be in our way together but That's just my hoping rihgt now I'll see in the future when we'll start to raise our kids.
Posts: 979 | From: Another world | Registered: May 2006
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texas..it does sound like you have a lot of stuff to get used to, my hubby would be the same bout the kissing thing too (although not with girls kissing on cheek)..is he with you in the states, hav e you met his friends/family? what kind of lives do they lead? (as much as you can tell) how does he feel about other things such as working, dress etc?
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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Hi marcella...what have you read that you cant accept? i am panicking now in case i've missed some! When you say you used to like your life, do you mean its changed already and your not happy or it will change?
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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No he is not with me yet I am going over to Egypt in July to spend some time with him and meet his family and friends. His father and mother own a farm in a small village his older brother is getting ready to marry next month. His younger brother is going to school to be a doctor. I asked him just yesterday about me working. He said No problem you want money for yourself to spend on your clothes and shoes and purses!! But you don't have to work if you don't want to. I will support us. I told him I don't have anything else to do during the day and I just lost 155 lbs. so I am not going to sit around the house and get fat again!! He said for sure!! ok the dress I remember talking to him before said something about us going out and I would dress in a skimpy black dress he yelled NO WAY !! You will dress like a lady everytime I see you on web cam now (which is abt everyday) you are dressed like a lady. DO NOT change this I said ok !!
Posts: 68 | From: San Antonio Texas | Registered: Apr 2006
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I meant I can't accept something about Islam.I'm not unhappy but I don't thing my life before I have meet my boyfriend was bad.And in fact I think I'll need to change many things because of him.Not religion,he's not trying that.He like me to be a Muslim but just I have to feel i in my heart.That's what I like about him.But....I really don't want do everything that Quran says,because I don't feel like that.
Posts: 979 | From: Another world | Registered: May 2006
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texas...ok, well I think when you see him and stay with him in july you will get more answers, long distance relationships are difficult cos you dont see someone in their surroundings, I think that you should try not to worry and when you get over there you will probably draw your own conclusions about these things...I am very happy with my husband and when we married i did have to change the way i dress or he wouldnt have been able to rest! lol, you sound like you know what your doing so i hope it all works out good for you and that he listens to and respects your culture and how difficult some of the changes might be for you, at least tries to meet you half way with things xx
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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Marcella...I know what you mean, I am thinking bout reverting but am not in any rush, am quite happy exploring things for now, I have made some changes, dress, halal etc but couldnt suddenly pray 5 times a day, much as i love God i would find that toooo much, and fasting scares me...i love food! so unless i am ready to do these things I might as well stay as i am. My life before my hubby wasnt bad, i was very independant, but i did also feel very lonely at times too...he just completes me (sorry to sound gushy)...I NEVER would have dreamed I would marry a muslim man or EVER entertain the idea of reverting but hey, guess life is strange, you never know whats round the corner. What things do you think you will need to change if its not religious? what do you feel you will be loosing?
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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TexasGirl, maybe you should really take a closer look at your relationship. It seems like you still have doubts.
Posts: 935 | Registered: Mar 2006
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Oh too many things probably my whole life.Going to live to different country,Egypt,no friends I don't thing a could be a friend with his sisters they are so much different.I can't just talk to them the same way I use to talk to friends. Not just to her family to everybody.I can't wear hijaab and all that stuff,and I will not.I like to go out with my friends and have fun.Not all the time but sometimes.In the end it's not that important but you know spend some time with friends how we like.Everything I'm doing they probably don't.And the other thing:raising thekids.I want them to be more free,how I was(how I am)In Islam(I think)you are not.
Posts: 979 | From: Another world | Registered: May 2006
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What your saying is sooo important Marcella, cos if you know you couldn't be happy living how he wants to live then how could it ever work?, if i'd met my husband 10 years ago i wouldn't have been ready to make the changes either, if i hadnt had the experiences ive had and the problems! i was already sick of dating players and sick of getting drunk way before my husband came along so he was perfect for me, but most of my friends would never dream of giving up clubbing or nights out etc, it must be hard for you, cos you can love someone but not want to live how they do, but if he is serious about his religion he is going to want you to make those changes....good luck hun xx
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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Yeah I tought so,what is your advice?I think that is better if he's not drinking of course,much better that goiung after work with friends to get some beers.As i said some things I like on Islam way but some I could never accept.I don't need to be drunk every week.It's not just about that.
Posts: 979 | From: Another world | Registered: May 2006
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being afraid of it is absolutely normal...so was I, something that has such bad press and seems a world away from where you are is bound to be scary...i dont know how religious you are but the way i look at it is this...there is good and bad in our culture ( not sure where your from but guessing west), for me, his lifestyle wins over mine in my eyes as my 'freedom' has not always left me feeling that great...I feel lucky that i might get to see, and live, differently, it wont be perfect, nothing is, but i think i'l find more happiness than i have before. what do your friends and family say about all of this?
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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i'm not saying i found the changes easy either, had an issue with the clothing thing until i started finding nice things and got over the initial fear of what everyone else would think, also i like the odd drink, i love baileys! BUT for the past 10 years i had a bad reaction to alcohol and my whole body would feel bruised for about 48 hours after id been drinking, also i was more moody, cos i would drink quite a bit at times, was no angel...misguided is probably spot on for me! so i had my own reasons for giving up alcohol, i dont want to do damage, and the problems i was having were more than hangover...my mouth still waters over bacon sandwiches! but i will resist! so thats the truth of it, all of these things have gone through my mind, why am i doing it? etc BUT for me personally, My hubby is a wonderfull man that no bacon sandwich could compete with!, nothing worth having is easy so these things that i am changing, although testing, give me the reward of having him by my side, I do believe strongly in God so maybe that helps me, me and my hubby are not as many worlds apart as we first thought
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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We were talking many times about everything,he knows that I am who I am and I'm a hard head.I think he is ok with that.Maybe this is the reason he had choose me,because I'm so different from the egyptians.But still I think It's going to be a hard life.
Posts: 979 | From: Another world | Registered: May 2006
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I've never been to Egypt yet so i dont know what its like, but obviously its different to western countries, would he not settle in europe or US? is he set on living in Egypt?
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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When did you know you really believe and you want to be a Muslim?How long it took?
Posts: 979 | From: Another world | Registered: May 2006
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i'm only now thinking I want to and still not 100% so bout 3 months, but i havent decided for sure yet, i've been readin alot bout islam and probably would like to read more bout christianity before i decide to, which is ironic really cos i decided to be baptised catholic at age 26 knowing very little really, other than what you learn at school, yet it seems a big deal to revert, but thats right i think, it should be a big deal, i want to know what i'm doing so i wont do anything until i'm 100%, i think God will be happy that at least i'm trying to find answers, I dont have to become muslim and do everything overnight, thats unreal, for me anyway! cos like you said, its very different to how we've been used to living
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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well, he knows you want to stay put so he should respect that, he has to compromise too cos he cant ask you to move somewhere your not happy, what would he get out of that anyway? a miserable wife! depressed wives dont clean houses or cook good food!...lol
Posts: 1017 | From: uk | Registered: Mar 2006
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How do you know that your kid should be muslim just because your egyptian husband wants him to be? The kids should have a say in what religion they practice. I say think long and hard before you marry a man that expects for the kids to be the religion he says. It's okay for him to want the kids to be muslim, and sometimes you can do what he wants, but he should not demand that they be muslim.
Posts: 935 | Registered: Mar 2006
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the children take the religion of the father. i believe it's on the birth certificate in egypt. it's actually required in religion. and i don't know any coptic fathers who have muslim children either. this isn't about personal choice, it's more like determining what your last name will be. you can certainly legally change your name when you're no longer a child, but you do grow up with the name of your father when you're a child.
Posts: 2182 | Registered: Oct 2002
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1) The expectation of submission was different from being a doormat. I found that my husband expected me to agree with him public and then discuss it at home. Whilst he expected me to ask him before I did something he also never said no. He just needed to have that acknowledgment. Also it is about face. All his friends are waiting to see if the Western woman is ‘respectable’ by their standards. That means the husband always is differed to, he always knows where you are, etc etc. The reality some 3 years later is now I have proved myself I do pretty much as I wish. Now I tend to tell him where I have been rather than where I am going. But I think all men need this feeling of being boss. 2) Lack of evening entertainment, this wouldn’t be an issue in Cairo but in Luxor there are no cinemas, bowling alleys, theatre etc 3) Remember you chose to marry him and if you don’t like his culture it is your problem. You should find out as much as possible before you get married. Don’t try and Westernise him, especially if you are living in Egypt. Remember when in Rome do like the Romans. Stay away from the ex pat community most of them are bitter and twisted. Make your mother in law your most important allie. 4) It was easy to be friendly but more difficult to really communicate, one the language barrier and two the cultural barrier. But they will do anything for you and make you feel special. 5) I haven’t converted although I haven’t rulled it out as a possibility but if I did I would do it for myself not for anyone else. My husband wants me to convert ‘I want you to go to paradise with me’ but there is no pressure 6) I work as a tour guide and landlady and have had no problems. The locals welcome me as I bring business to the West Bank and to them directly. My husband feels I am his partner in the business and will sometimes will ask me to do something if I have more experience in that area. 7) My daughter is his step daughter but she is also the daughter of an arab. I know that her late father would agree with many of the things her step father feels are important. This is difficult for her as she is also half Western but I think she has a better life here than she did in UK. She can go out be herself and not be in danger. She has a horse here and goes riding, a swimming pool, goes to a private school so all in all she does better her than the UK. But she can’t get her naval pierced and wear skimpy clothes.
-------------------- Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor Posts: 2791 | From: www.flatsinluxor.co.uk, Luxor, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2003
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